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On January 30 2016 11:34 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 11:20 Silvana wrote:On January 30 2016 11:08 Charoisaur wrote:On January 30 2016 11:03 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On January 30 2016 11:00 Charoisaur wrote:
There have been some aspersions cast in various threads, alleging that our team is small, that our team is allocated to other projects, or that we delivered an incomplete product. None of these have merit, and frankly this kind of commentary is demotivating to the team. The entire development team from Legacy of the Void is continuing to work hard on StarCraft II – we believe we delivered a compelling scope in Legacy of the Void, and we are excited to have the opportunity to add even more content and features in the months ahead.
Well if your team isn't small the only other possibility is that your team just sucks ass. I think it's better to hear that your team is just small.
Although we were disappointed to see so many unconstructive comments this week, we did appreciate that some constructive feedback is still occurring. Given the passion we see exhibited on both sides of the fence, we believe that the future holds great potential. Whether you are a supporter or a critic of our approach, we are grateful to you all for playing and watching StarCraft II!
if you do shit decisions in regard to starcraft what do you expect? Should we say "oh you're doing an awesome job, this mappool should even stay for season 3. Just switch orbital shipyard and dusk towers with more unique maps and it will be perfect" The reason for our feedback is that we actually care for the game and want it to be succesful. Reading your "feedback", there isn't anything that is constructive and could help make the game successful. You don't sound like you care about the game. You sound like you enjoy criticizing people. I and others have explained often enough why the current mappool is stale and imbalanced and why map variety is good but clearly broken abusable map features are bad. If it gets ignored again and again, yeah then the feedback gets a little more unconstructive. So what? If someone asks your feedback but don't agree with it then that gives you the right to shit on them? Again my question don't you see you are having a negative effect on the game/scene you supposedly love and care so much for? It's not just me. By reading the comments to every thread regarding the current mappool it's clear that the vast majority hates the current mappool. and DK knows it if he reads them too (which he says he does). so he is intentionally making a decision that the community does not like. If that doesn't sound to you slightly egoistic I don't know what does. It's not my intention to bash him just to hurt his feelings I'm just very disappointed by his decisions.
I'm not saying DK is not egoistic, or that he does his job right. I am saying that focusing your feedback or comments on that kind of things (whether you are right or not on your judgement about him) is counterproductive and you guys should stop. Why? Because it helps no one, and it can possibly hurt.
If you don't care about hurting DK and team's feelings that's fine. But think about doing something that actually helps the game. And refrain from doing something that can hurt.
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On January 30 2016 11:38 ilikeredheads wrote:
Since the WoL days, Blizzard seems to be living in their own little world. I don't see how this is going to change any time soon. I mean, if they dont' want to listen to the community, fine, but at least listen to the Korean pros and the pros often say Blizzard don't really take their feedback.
If you read their posts, they do listen to the pros, but different pros say very different things, so not easy to act on. I get the impression those kids are extremely biased towards their race, consciously and subconsciously.
People in the community, being equally biased, pick out the korean pros that say the same thing they think (notice how everyone quotes pros of their own race for this kind of things....), and then go and complain to Blizz as if they have final indisputable proof that the Developers are Morons. Let's call it "DaM", as it is said so often.
zerg korean pro: Terran too stronk, nerf liberator.
zerg poster1: I TOLD EVERYONE SO FOR AGES< WHY DIDNT YOU LISTEN!!! DaM!!
zerg poster2: DaM!!
zerg poster3: DaM!
zerg poster4: DaM, lolz!
zerg poster5: DaM!!!
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On January 30 2016 11:45 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 11:34 Charoisaur wrote:On January 30 2016 11:20 Silvana wrote:On January 30 2016 11:08 Charoisaur wrote:On January 30 2016 11:03 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On January 30 2016 11:00 Charoisaur wrote:
There have been some aspersions cast in various threads, alleging that our team is small, that our team is allocated to other projects, or that we delivered an incomplete product. None of these have merit, and frankly this kind of commentary is demotivating to the team. The entire development team from Legacy of the Void is continuing to work hard on StarCraft II – we believe we delivered a compelling scope in Legacy of the Void, and we are excited to have the opportunity to add even more content and features in the months ahead.
Well if your team isn't small the only other possibility is that your team just sucks ass. I think it's better to hear that your team is just small.
Although we were disappointed to see so many unconstructive comments this week, we did appreciate that some constructive feedback is still occurring. Given the passion we see exhibited on both sides of the fence, we believe that the future holds great potential. Whether you are a supporter or a critic of our approach, we are grateful to you all for playing and watching StarCraft II!
if you do shit decisions in regard to starcraft what do you expect? Should we say "oh you're doing an awesome job, this mappool should even stay for season 3. Just switch orbital shipyard and dusk towers with more unique maps and it will be perfect" The reason for our feedback is that we actually care for the game and want it to be succesful. Reading your "feedback", there isn't anything that is constructive and could help make the game successful. You don't sound like you care about the game. You sound like you enjoy criticizing people. I and others have explained often enough why the current mappool is stale and imbalanced and why map variety is good but clearly broken abusable map features are bad. If it gets ignored again and again, yeah then the feedback gets a little more unconstructive. So what? If someone asks your feedback but don't agree with it then that gives you the right to shit on them? Again my question don't you see you are having a negative effect on the game/scene you supposedly love and care so much for? It's not just me. By reading the comments to every thread regarding the current mappool it's clear that the vast majority hates the current mappool. and DK knows it if he reads them too (which he says he does). so he is intentionally making a decision that the community does not like. If that doesn't sound to you slightly egoistic I don't know what does. It's not my intention to bash him just to hurt his feelings I'm just very disappointed by his decisions. I'm not saying DK is not egoistic, or that he does his job right. I am saying that focusing your feedback or comments on that kind of things (whether you are right or not on your judgement about him) is counterproductive and you guys should stop. Why? Because it helps no one, and it can possibly hurt. If you don't care about hurting DK and team's feelings that's fine. But think about doing something that actually helps the game. And refrain from doing something that can hurt.
No pain no gain.
We are the customers here.
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On January 30 2016 10:55 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 10:51 Kurbz wrote:On January 30 2016 10:47 Charoisaur wrote:
david kims ego is really damaging to this game. This. Very much this. This is not constructive criticism in the slightest
There's not much constructive criticism to give. The maps are not fun to play on. If it does not FEEL fun to play on you don't have to articulate a reason. You play on it and its simply not fun. If you play on psion terraces you feel Zerg just roll over you . If you play on central protocol you feel like you have to cheese or do some dumb strategy- in blizzards euphemism "creative strategies".
Speaking of ego and euphemisms. I don't think they actually ever admitted they made a mistake before.
Did they ever say Brood Lord Infestor was their fault?
When there was swarmhosts vs zerg and protoss they used their little euphemism "stalemate games".
They can't admit that when they make a mistake and create gameplay that is not fun.
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Apparently, 6 years into the SC2 experiment, DK's team still don't know how to differentiate "cool factor" and "gimmick".
On January 30 2016 10:41 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +There have been some aspersions cast in various threads, alleging that our team is small, that our team is allocated to other projects, or that we delivered an incomplete product. None of these have merit, and frankly this kind of commentary is demotivating to the team. The entire development team from Legacy of the Void is continuing to work hard on StarCraft II – we believe we delivered a compelling scope in Legacy of the Void, and we are excited to have the opportunity to add even more content and features in the months ahead.
Although we were disappointed to see so many unconstructive comments this week, we did appreciate that some constructive feedback is still occurring. Given the passion we see exhibited on both sides of the fence, we believe that the future holds great potential. Whether you are a supporter or a critic of our approach, we are grateful to you all for playing and watching StarCraft II! I'm torn on this. I feel bad for DK and his team for getting so much crap but I also don't agree with quite a few of their decisions.. Let's at least be constructive in our criticism people
(1)constructive criticism has been given to them since 2010.
(2)when you do shit, you'll take shit. Every criticism doesn't have to be constructive, as the goal of criticism is primarily to express a feeling ; only secondarily criticism might be constructive when it is useful/the guy in command doesn't know what the guy criticizing wants. But destructive criticism, as long as it's not trolling, is a valid way to express your feelings, thus is valid criticism. Constructive criticism is often confused with nice criticism, but it's not the same.
Thus yeah, if Dayvie's team thinks that getting told that they're bad and delivered a terrible product is demotivating shit and not legit, useful criticism, I think they're lucky to work at Blizzard and not somewhere else
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On January 30 2016 11:35 Cascade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 10:31 Dayvie wrote:
There have been some aspersions cast in various threads, alleging that our team is small, that our team is allocated to other projects, or that we delivered an incomplete product. None of these have merit, and frankly this kind of commentary is demotivating to the team. The entire development team from Legacy of the Void is continuing to work hard on StarCraft II – we believe we delivered a compelling scope in Legacy of the Void, and we are excited to have the opportunity to add even more content and features in the months ahead.
Although we were disappointed to see so many unconstructive comments this week, we did appreciate that some constructive feedback is still occurring. Given the passion we see exhibited on both sides of the fence, we believe that the future holds great potential. Whether you are a supporter or a critic of our approach, we are grateful to you all for playing and watching StarCraft II! Hmm, I don't this is the right approach to handling the online community. To put it simply, haters gonna hate. The people that post the most are people that are angry for one or other reason, not the people that enjoy the game (they'll be in the game , playing). And the people that post are often people that say things without thinking, rather than people that carefully think through all sides of a problem before posting (those will probably not post at all, seeing that their complaints often don't really make sense). And it is important to not let that fact get to the developers, justified hate or not. So if the dev team is getting taken down by the tone, maybe better to put a layer in between. Have community managers that scoop up and forward the constructive ideas to the developers, together with any widespread systematic complains of a specific aspect of the game. Discourage (sensitive) developers to read the forums. Celebrate that one time when only 70% of the comments sling feces at you, that means that you've done great job! Take the team out for a drink! If you've watched tasteosis banter (you know, when they should be casting the game), they often make fun of how forum posters or twitch chat will pull out the harshest and rudest comments for the slightest misstep, or even possible misinterpretation. I think maybe the dev team could do with some of that approach. Seeing the forums as a kind of 4-chan brewing pit of poisonous crap, with the occasional unpolished gem floating to the top. After all, the hating forum posters don't only find blizzard to be mentally challenged, they hold most of the other forum posters in the same regard. In general, these posters find all the other posters (that don't agree with their every single idea) to be Royal Morons. So from Blizzards point of view it may look like a unified front against the dev team, but it is in fact more like a horde of hedgehogs of hate, everyone pointing spikes in all directions, including the other hedgehogs of hate. Everyone agrees that what blizzard is doing is horrible and bad and retarded, but they say the same thing of most of the other posters suggestions. The forums just hate on anything in sight, because it's easy, and because vocal minority. A better approach would be to not try to suppress the haters (gl with that... can you hold back the tide as well when you are done with that?), but rather encourage the good posts. In these feedbacks, if you occasionally refer to a specific poster, or specific posts that affected your discussion at any point (even if it didn't actually change anything at the end of the day), throw out a shout-out, or maybe even link to the post. It'll make everyone want to be the person cited, and will at least increase motivation for good feedback, if not suppress recreational hating.
I don't think it's incorrect to say it. It won't stop the vast majority people from making toxic comments, but if it makes some people think about it it's worth saying.
Having community managers filter out most of the crap and aggregate the feedback is definitely what they do already. Of course then you end up with depressed community managers, which is why community managers have such an insanely high turnover rate.
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On January 30 2016 11:43 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 11:34 Charoisaur wrote:On January 30 2016 11:20 Silvana wrote:On January 30 2016 11:08 Charoisaur wrote:On January 30 2016 11:03 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On January 30 2016 11:00 Charoisaur wrote:
There have been some aspersions cast in various threads, alleging that our team is small, that our team is allocated to other projects, or that we delivered an incomplete product. None of these have merit, and frankly this kind of commentary is demotivating to the team. The entire development team from Legacy of the Void is continuing to work hard on StarCraft II – we believe we delivered a compelling scope in Legacy of the Void, and we are excited to have the opportunity to add even more content and features in the months ahead.
Well if your team isn't small the only other possibility is that your team just sucks ass. I think it's better to hear that your team is just small.
Although we were disappointed to see so many unconstructive comments this week, we did appreciate that some constructive feedback is still occurring. Given the passion we see exhibited on both sides of the fence, we believe that the future holds great potential. Whether you are a supporter or a critic of our approach, we are grateful to you all for playing and watching StarCraft II!
if you do shit decisions in regard to starcraft what do you expect? Should we say "oh you're doing an awesome job, this mappool should even stay for season 3. Just switch orbital shipyard and dusk towers with more unique maps and it will be perfect" The reason for our feedback is that we actually care for the game and want it to be succesful. Reading your "feedback", there isn't anything that is constructive and could help make the game successful. You don't sound like you care about the game. You sound like you enjoy criticizing people. I and others have explained often enough why the current mappool is stale and imbalanced and why map variety is good but clearly broken abusable map features are bad. If it gets ignored again and again, yeah then the feedback gets a little more unconstructive. So what? If someone asks your feedback but don't agree with it then that gives you the right to shit on them? Again my question don't you see you are having a negative effect on the game/scene you supposedly love and care so much for? It's not just me. By reading the comments to every thread regarding the current mappool it's clear that the vast majority hates the current mappool. and DK knows it if he reads them too (which he says he does). so he is intentionally making a decision that the community does not like. If that doesn't sound to you slightly egoistic I don't know what does. It's not my intention to bash him just to hurt his feelings I'm just very disappointed by his decisions. While I too dislike the current map pool and think it should change, the line of reasoning that the "majority of the community" wants something and therefore should get it is a terribly flawed approach. While the community almost always knows when something is wrong, its suggestions to fix said problem are generally awful. So not doing what the community wants is not inherently incorrect.
It should also be pointed out that for every aspect of the game the community correctly called had to be changed, there are 100 things that were pointed out as vigorously, that later turned out was completely fine. We can't really think of "the community" as a single entity with a single opinion, and then highlight only the few posts that happen to get something right by chance as evidence of the wisdom of it.
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On January 30 2016 11:52 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 11:35 Cascade wrote:On January 30 2016 10:31 Dayvie wrote:
There have been some aspersions cast in various threads, alleging that our team is small, that our team is allocated to other projects, or that we delivered an incomplete product. None of these have merit, and frankly this kind of commentary is demotivating to the team. The entire development team from Legacy of the Void is continuing to work hard on StarCraft II – we believe we delivered a compelling scope in Legacy of the Void, and we are excited to have the opportunity to add even more content and features in the months ahead.
Although we were disappointed to see so many unconstructive comments this week, we did appreciate that some constructive feedback is still occurring. Given the passion we see exhibited on both sides of the fence, we believe that the future holds great potential. Whether you are a supporter or a critic of our approach, we are grateful to you all for playing and watching StarCraft II! Hmm, I don't this is the right approach to handling the online community. To put it simply, haters gonna hate. The people that post the most are people that are angry for one or other reason, not the people that enjoy the game (they'll be in the game , playing). And the people that post are often people that say things without thinking, rather than people that carefully think through all sides of a problem before posting (those will probably not post at all, seeing that their complaints often don't really make sense). And it is important to not let that fact get to the developers, justified hate or not. So if the dev team is getting taken down by the tone, maybe better to put a layer in between. Have community managers that scoop up and forward the constructive ideas to the developers, together with any widespread systematic complains of a specific aspect of the game. Discourage (sensitive) developers to read the forums. Celebrate that one time when only 70% of the comments sling feces at you, that means that you've done great job! Take the team out for a drink! If you've watched tasteosis banter (you know, when they should be casting the game), they often make fun of how forum posters or twitch chat will pull out the harshest and rudest comments for the slightest misstep, or even possible misinterpretation. I think maybe the dev team could do with some of that approach. Seeing the forums as a kind of 4-chan brewing pit of poisonous crap, with the occasional unpolished gem floating to the top. After all, the hating forum posters don't only find blizzard to be mentally challenged, they hold most of the other forum posters in the same regard. In general, these posters find all the other posters (that don't agree with their every single idea) to be Royal Morons. So from Blizzards point of view it may look like a unified front against the dev team, but it is in fact more like a horde of hedgehogs of hate, everyone pointing spikes in all directions, including the other hedgehogs of hate. Everyone agrees that what blizzard is doing is horrible and bad and retarded, but they say the same thing of most of the other posters suggestions. The forums just hate on anything in sight, because it's easy, and because vocal minority. A better approach would be to not try to suppress the haters (gl with that... can you hold back the tide as well when you are done with that?), but rather encourage the good posts. In these feedbacks, if you occasionally refer to a specific poster, or specific posts that affected your discussion at any point (even if it didn't actually change anything at the end of the day), throw out a shout-out, or maybe even link to the post. It'll make everyone want to be the person cited, and will at least increase motivation for good feedback, if not suppress recreational hating. I don't think it's incorrect to say it. It won't stop the vast majority people from making toxic comments, but if it makes some people think about it it's worth saying. Having community managers filter out most of the crap and aggregate the feedback is definitely what they do already. Of course then you end up with depressed community managers, which is why community managers have such an insanely high turnover rate.
Community managers: the trash recycling workers of the internet.
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On January 30 2016 11:43 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 11:34 Charoisaur wrote:On January 30 2016 11:20 Silvana wrote:On January 30 2016 11:08 Charoisaur wrote:On January 30 2016 11:03 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On January 30 2016 11:00 Charoisaur wrote:
There have been some aspersions cast in various threads, alleging that our team is small, that our team is allocated to other projects, or that we delivered an incomplete product. None of these have merit, and frankly this kind of commentary is demotivating to the team. The entire development team from Legacy of the Void is continuing to work hard on StarCraft II – we believe we delivered a compelling scope in Legacy of the Void, and we are excited to have the opportunity to add even more content and features in the months ahead.
Well if your team isn't small the only other possibility is that your team just sucks ass. I think it's better to hear that your team is just small.
Although we were disappointed to see so many unconstructive comments this week, we did appreciate that some constructive feedback is still occurring. Given the passion we see exhibited on both sides of the fence, we believe that the future holds great potential. Whether you are a supporter or a critic of our approach, we are grateful to you all for playing and watching StarCraft II!
if you do shit decisions in regard to starcraft what do you expect? Should we say "oh you're doing an awesome job, this mappool should even stay for season 3. Just switch orbital shipyard and dusk towers with more unique maps and it will be perfect" The reason for our feedback is that we actually care for the game and want it to be succesful. Reading your "feedback", there isn't anything that is constructive and could help make the game successful. You don't sound like you care about the game. You sound like you enjoy criticizing people. I and others have explained often enough why the current mappool is stale and imbalanced and why map variety is good but clearly broken abusable map features are bad. If it gets ignored again and again, yeah then the feedback gets a little more unconstructive. So what? If someone asks your feedback but don't agree with it then that gives you the right to shit on them? Again my question don't you see you are having a negative effect on the game/scene you supposedly love and care so much for? It's not just me. By reading the comments to every thread regarding the current mappool it's clear that the vast majority hates the current mappool. and DK knows it if he reads them too (which he says he does). so he is intentionally making a decision that the community does not like. If that doesn't sound to you slightly egoistic I don't know what does. It's not my intention to bash him just to hurt his feelings I'm just very disappointed by his decisions. While I too dislike the current map pool and think it should change, the line of reasoning that the "majority of the community" wants something and therefore should get it is a terribly flawed approach. While the community almost always knows when something is wrong, its suggestions to fix said problem are generally awful. So not doing what the community wants is not inherently incorrect.
This is only correct when the community doesn't know yet how the changes made by the company are going to be.
Like when this would be DKs first attempt at bringing "creative" maps and everyone would be shitting on him, then it would be totally ok if he ignored the haters and tries something different.
But in this case we have played on those maps for months and don't enjoy them.
A companys goal should be to make the consumers happy and if this is clearly not the case then sticking with their plans is just dumb.
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On January 30 2016 11:17 Silvana wrote:
I have no idea about maps. But I wanna comment on this:
They guy just took some time to ask you to please stop shitting on them because it is not useful at all and it is counterproductive (it demoralizes the team), and what do you people do? Come here and make personal attacks on them.
How many more times do you think a team can keep taking shit from the community for no good reason? Can't you see that personal attacks and discrediting the team for their work IS NOT HELPING the game and can possibly have a negative effect?
You can't keep your hateful thoughts to yourselves, yet you ask for DK to swallow his ego. The irony...
The difference is that they are getting paid while the community is not. It is not up to the community to increase their morale; that's the manager's job.
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god this is sad. david kim is a friendly and intelligent dude, but he's falling into the oldest trap on the internet - trying to engage useless trolls who attack him personally. the community feedback posts are good, the fact that he tries to personally address gutter posts is bad and will only make him feel worse.
if you justify trashing and insulting a human being with "he didn't make the changes to his video game i wanted him to make" you may need to seriously examine your thought processes
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I find the situation perplexing. There has been a lot more engagement with the community lately, which is a good thing, but I don't think it's correct for DK to state that they have created false expectations with their 'transparency'. I didn't know of any prior promises, but when I read that there are features arriving in more than six months, I also feel perplexed and disappointed. So it's not that their transparency has led to this situation, the way they communicated this time led to this situation.
Regarding maps, it doesn't actually matter whether the current maps are good or bad. They have three major problems regardless: a) they have been around since the beta, b) they aren't GSL maps, c) they aren't community made maps.
I for one thought that the ladder and GSL coordinate their maps, but this is clearly not the case. So I find it understandable that the community is up in arms about the stagnating map pool. Pretty much everyone can find fault with it because of the three independent reasons above.
Furthermore, getting new maps is not that difficult thanks to the GSL. You can just grab some maps from there.
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ok to start im a results man and u can say to me whatever you want, but i care about results and i have stayed quiet letting david kim over the past years do his thing and see where the game goes. however past behaviour usually will represent future behaviour, and thats why the community is getting worse and worse... i read reddit and tl im a lurker dont say much ,, but DK you have to understand that when the game stays unchanged for so long or things arent changed or promises of this arent kept. what do u expect the community to do?
To keep on backing u.. no eventualy the community will get over it and thats whats happening.. people have told you and your team what they want over and over with no changes or quick patches.. like for example the seige tank... people wanted it changed... you didnt even respond.. just said we are looking at it.. no transparecy just we are looking at it..you could have given some reasons to keep the community thinking .. what do u expect the community after what, 5 years to keep backing you.. i mean come on... im 30yrs old.. i work in corporate.. you can fool the kids but the adults are getting over it and thats what your seeing.....
i love sc2.. but i looked at my games played and its getting less and less because i now know changes or promises arent coming along... i was super hyped about ladder changes and point... where is that.. i may hate avilo but he make a good point about air being to strong.. and who cares if a tournament is on and you dont wanna patch are you looking long term do u have an end goal? doesnt seem like it... like geee do u have a year plan when you say guys this is what we wanna achieve this year for sc2... ... not just week to week.. this is why people are getting worse as i said im a lurker ill read see what happens DK but.. from what i read weekly its just to keep us at bay i can read between the lines.... remember people in this world help people who go the extra mile or really go hard at something not sit back and see how it goes.. anyway im not the dev. its up to GL DK. im on your side but you are making it harder for anyone to believe in you.
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Dusk Towers
Defend 1 choke point to gain access to 4 bases is something unique to this map, and it’s already looking like it creates very different games compared to other map types.
aka "turtle map"
Lerilak Crest
Each starting location plays out so differently, and the general feel of the map playing a bit more rush heavy. The fact that each start location plays out differently means players who are more reactive depending on what they scout can perform better on a map like this, which we think is a cool factor.
aka "rotational imba"
i agree that need to stop complaining about all the new announced features not being instantly available, it takes time to code all that stuff...
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So... How do I hold stim pushes now? Anyone?
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On January 30 2016 11:56 LordOfDabu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 11:17 Silvana wrote:
I have no idea about maps. But I wanna comment on this:
They guy just took some time to ask you to please stop shitting on them because it is not useful at all and it is counterproductive (it demoralizes the team), and what do you people do? Come here and make personal attacks on them.
How many more times do you think a team can keep taking shit from the community for no good reason? Can't you see that personal attacks and discrediting the team for their work IS NOT HELPING the game and can possibly have a negative effect?
You can't keep your hateful thoughts to yourselves, yet you ask for DK to swallow his ego. The irony... The difference is that they are getting paid while the community is not. It is not up to the community to increase their morale; that's the manager's job.
I can imagine they have a hard time recruiting top talent due to the toxic feedback you have to put with as game developer. If you are a rockstar developer, why would you go into a field where your customers are insulting you 24/7?
You are right that the forum posters are the customers: the payers, not the payees, so it is not like people don't have to right to broadcast their useless hate wherever they find the means to. And I don't see how you would stop it. And I agree that it is up to the manger to keep the morale up, not the community.
But it is also true that the hate creates worse games at the end of the day.
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On January 30 2016 11:52 OtherWorld wrote:Apparently, 6 years into the SC2 experiment, DK's team still don't know how to differentiate "cool factor" and "gimmick". Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 10:41 Penev wrote:There have been some aspersions cast in various threads, alleging that our team is small, that our team is allocated to other projects, or that we delivered an incomplete product. None of these have merit, and frankly this kind of commentary is demotivating to the team. The entire development team from Legacy of the Void is continuing to work hard on StarCraft II – we believe we delivered a compelling scope in Legacy of the Void, and we are excited to have the opportunity to add even more content and features in the months ahead.
Although we were disappointed to see so many unconstructive comments this week, we did appreciate that some constructive feedback is still occurring. Given the passion we see exhibited on both sides of the fence, we believe that the future holds great potential. Whether you are a supporter or a critic of our approach, we are grateful to you all for playing and watching StarCraft II! I'm torn on this. I feel bad for DK and his team for getting so much crap but I also don't agree with quite a few of their decisions.. Let's at least be constructive in our criticism people (1)constructive criticism has been given to them since 2010. (2)when you do shit, you'll take shit. Every criticism doesn't have to be constructive, as the goal of criticism is primarily to express a feeling ; only secondarily criticism might be constructive when it is useful/the guy in command doesn't know what the guy criticizing wants. But destructive criticism, as long as it's not trolling, is a valid way to express your feelings, thus is valid criticism. Constructive criticism is often confused with nice criticism, but it's not the same. Thus yeah, if Dayvie's team thinks that getting told that they're bad and delivered a terrible product is demotivating shit and not legit, useful criticism, I think they're lucky to work at Blizzard and not somewhere else wtf are you talking about? "destructive criticism is valid"? what does that even mean? it's valid to try to make people feel like shit because you don't like that they aren't using your ideas?
you realize that they can actually design the game any way they want, just like a band selling albums can make whatever music they want? where do you get this insane entitlement from?
am i the only one who can see as clear as day that there is no community consensus, everyone wants different shit, and it's impossible to design the game "everyone wants"? how can so many individuals be so ceaselessly convinced that they are being personally wronged because not every single one of their suggestions is implemented?
i dont even play other blizz games or care about them as a company, this is just overall common sense and common decency. like... some of you people need to admit you're just too invested in how you think starcraft should be and how much you think your opinion should matter
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On January 30 2016 11:56 LordOfDabu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 11:17 Silvana wrote:
I have no idea about maps. But I wanna comment on this:
They guy just took some time to ask you to please stop shitting on them because it is not useful at all and it is counterproductive (it demoralizes the team), and what do you people do? Come here and make personal attacks on them.
How many more times do you think a team can keep taking shit from the community for no good reason? Can't you see that personal attacks and discrediting the team for their work IS NOT HELPING the game and can possibly have a negative effect?
You can't keep your hateful thoughts to yourselves, yet you ask for DK to swallow his ego. The irony... The difference is that they are getting paid while the community is not. It is not up to the community to increase their morale; that's the manager's job.
But this is not a competition to see who is right or wrong, it is not a struggle of power, it is not 2 friends arguing because they think the other is morally wrong.
Whether we are right with out criticisim or not, we gain literally nothing by pissing off the dev team and drive them away from us by quitting channels of communication and cooperation. You can technically say you won the battle, because you showed that they are <insert whatever criticism you have>, but what is that useful for? Do we get a better game as result? No.
But we do have something to gain if we make an effort and refrain from throwing shit at them. You cannot deny they have done a better job since they started this Weekly Community Feedback thing. Let's try to keep it and make the most of it.
I'm sorry if I sound like a big momma giving moral lessons or a know-it-all person. I just think some people here are losing the vision of what the community feedback thing is for. It is not to prove the dev team are a bunch of inepts incapable of doing their work. It is a means for us to help them make the game better.
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On January 30 2016 12:07 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2016 11:52 OtherWorld wrote:Apparently, 6 years into the SC2 experiment, DK's team still don't know how to differentiate "cool factor" and "gimmick". On January 30 2016 10:41 Penev wrote:There have been some aspersions cast in various threads, alleging that our team is small, that our team is allocated to other projects, or that we delivered an incomplete product. None of these have merit, and frankly this kind of commentary is demotivating to the team. The entire development team from Legacy of the Void is continuing to work hard on StarCraft II – we believe we delivered a compelling scope in Legacy of the Void, and we are excited to have the opportunity to add even more content and features in the months ahead.
Although we were disappointed to see so many unconstructive comments this week, we did appreciate that some constructive feedback is still occurring. Given the passion we see exhibited on both sides of the fence, we believe that the future holds great potential. Whether you are a supporter or a critic of our approach, we are grateful to you all for playing and watching StarCraft II! I'm torn on this. I feel bad for DK and his team for getting so much crap but I also don't agree with quite a few of their decisions.. Let's at least be constructive in our criticism people (1)constructive criticism has been given to them since 2010. (2)when you do shit, you'll take shit. Every criticism doesn't have to be constructive, as the goal of criticism is primarily to express a feeling ; only secondarily criticism might be constructive when it is useful/the guy in command doesn't know what the guy criticizing wants. But destructive criticism, as long as it's not trolling, is a valid way to express your feelings, thus is valid criticism. Constructive criticism is often confused with nice criticism, but it's not the same. Thus yeah, if Dayvie's team thinks that getting told that they're bad and delivered a terrible product is demotivating shit and not legit, useful criticism, I think they're lucky to work at Blizzard and not somewhere else wtf are you talking about? "destructive criticism is valid"? what does that even mean? it's valid to try to make people feel like shit because you don't like that they aren't using your ideas? you realize that they can actually design the game any way they want, just like a band selling albums can make whatever music they want? where do you get this insane entitlement from? am i the only one who can see as clear as day that there is no community consensus, everyone wants different shit, and it's impossible to design the game "everyone wants"? how can so many individuals be so ceaselessly convinced that they are being personally wronged because not every single one of their suggestions is implemented? i dont even play other blizz games or care about them as a company, this is just overall common sense and common decency. like... some of you people need to admit you're just too invested in how you think starcraft should be and how much you think your opinion should matter
I'm with you. I wrote exactly that on the previous page as a matter of fact. 
On January 30 2016 11:57 brickrd wrote:
god this is sad. david kim is a friendly and intelligent dude, but he's falling into the oldest trap on the internet - trying to engage useless trolls who attack him personally. the community feedback posts are good, the fact that he tries to personally address gutter posts is bad and will only make him feel worse.
if you justify trashing and insulting a human being with "he didn't make the changes to his video game i wanted him to make" you may need to seriously examine your thought processes
And this.
In this last post, I am starting to think that maybe he isn't really personally affected, but maybe he is angry because he sees what it does to his team? So this is just some kind of attempt to look after his team, and maybe it is directed at the dev team as much as to the community. Publicly announcing that the dev team is doing a better job than the (toxic part of the) community is giving them credit for should be an increase to the dev teams morale, right?
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I feel like telling people not to be negative and hate at this point is like telling an angry crowd if they would be so kind as to put away their pitchforks and torches.
I really enjoy playing the game even now, but if 99% of the comments are negative about the new map pool there might be a problem with it and it's not just haters gonna hate.
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EPT
