On February 04 2016 15:23 BronzeKnee wrote: You have no idea who I am. But that doesn't matter good sir, because the basis of my argument is the design blogs from the LoL team.
i know Morhaime's track record.... urs is an unknown... i'll go with Uncle Mike.
On February 04 2016 15:23 BronzeKnee wrote: And as I said: "it validates what I am saying when I use other team's designs to compare against the designs of the SC2 team, because it shows that things can be done the correct way and I'm not just picking apart a team for making mistakes, because everyone make mistakes as you mentioned, from doctors to politicians. But some people make more mistakes than others, and should be held accountable."
this "even pros make mistakes" comment did not come from me. you are mistaking comments made by someone else. MOBA is not RTS. Riot is not rushing to make an RTS game.. nor are the makers of DOTA2.
On February 04 2016 15:23 BronzeKnee wrote: So there we have it. League has a track record too. You can read their design blogs, process them and make a determination for yourself on what good game design mechanics are. Or you can choose to do "whatever feels right."
And you can choose to believe whatever you want. But when you blindly believe something because of who said it, know that is not something science does, so I won't do it. And thus, it doesn't surprise me that games with science behind them outperform those without science backing them.
science? LOL.
craftsmanship is what i want. masterminding a class of interactive experiences with a digital product is an act of craftsmanship. i want a master craftstman.. not a scientist.... see Alan Cooper's masterpiece About Face 3 for more on that.
now this craftsman may know a few things about computer science and software engineering... but i want Alan Cooper... not the guy who graduated #1 in the best computer science school in the world. or even the guy who graduated from some Game Design school and is running around calling himself a "Game Designer" because he memorized a few "principles". that theoretical guy probably knows more about science than Cooper. I'll take Cooper every time over any science guy any where.
regarding design philosophy... Blizzard's name indicates their over all development process from a macroscopic level. They were briefly called Chaos Studios. as a consumer i'm satisified with the fun i've had playing their games for the last 18 years. I like Blizzard's experimental approach as they craft and tune their games.
calling my support of Blizzard blind is a straw man.
i base my judgement on R'n'R Racing, Warcraft2 and 3, Diablo2 and 3, WoW, Hearthstone, Lost Vikings, SC1 and SC2 and how they'll cancel projects 5 years in because the game is not quite good enough.
i'm buying Overwatch on Day 1. I'll be having a bunch of giggling, silly, idiotic fun while you're running around expounding about design principles. To each their own.
Tying this back to the topic. Saying DK is grossly incompetent means Morhaime, Sigaty, and Pierce are not doing their jobs. Given their track record since 1991 this is unreasonable to believe. Your argument is invalid via Reductio Ad Absurdum.
You can't put LotV in the same boat as all those other games. Base your judgement on the entire Blizzard library all you want. Doesn't change the fact that they straight up threw their typical design process where they "did not release a game if it was not good enough" this time.
The Blizzard store stated the release date for the game March 2016. That was what it said the day I preordered it.Blizzard employees stated the LotV beta was going to be "far longer than any of the other Blizzard betas before". The beta was within 30 days of the length of HotS beta. The game released months before their scheduled release date, and within 2 weeks prior to the new release date announcement they reverted the beta changes in order to meet the new release date. They ONLY spent barely over a month for the entire "balancing" phase after the major changes at the end of beta, that's not even enough time for sufficient QA testing due to a changing metagame.
That's not the same Blizzard principles that were used historically. Ever. Even D3, as bad as it's release was.
I know players dont like to play on different maps. Its a fact that humans dont like change. Look at dota or lol or bws lost temple and hunters. They played these maps for years! The human mind resists changes because learning costs energy.
New maps, good maps, different maps are good for the viewer. They create interesting games. I dont think its imbalanced at all. One race might have the advantage but you can just add another map where another race has the advantage. Kespa did this for years in bw.
I remember in wol how people thought the games looked all the same and were really stale. Now people want stale games again. There is really no way to please you guys. I think 2 standard maps in the pool is the number to go.
But i dont expect that anyone can please this community. When i read reddit or twitch comments i see so much shit it really hurts my eyes. For example how can people call a race op when it wins, how is this possible? Does skill not matter anymore?
On February 04 2016 15:23 BronzeKnee wrote: You have no idea who I am. But that doesn't matter good sir, because the basis of my argument is the design blogs from the LoL team.
i know Morhaime's track record.... urs is an unknown... i'll go with Uncle Mike.
On February 04 2016 15:23 BronzeKnee wrote: And as I said: "it validates what I am saying when I use other team's designs to compare against the designs of the SC2 team, because it shows that things can be done the correct way and I'm not just picking apart a team for making mistakes, because everyone make mistakes as you mentioned, from doctors to politicians. But some people make more mistakes than others, and should be held accountable."
this "even pros make mistakes" comment did not come from me. you are mistaking comments made by someone else. MOBA is not RTS. Riot is not rushing to make an RTS game.. nor are the makers of DOTA2.
On February 04 2016 15:23 BronzeKnee wrote: So there we have it. League has a track record too. You can read their design blogs, process them and make a determination for yourself on what good game design mechanics are. Or you can choose to do "whatever feels right."
And you can choose to believe whatever you want. But when you blindly believe something because of who said it, know that is not something science does, so I won't do it. And thus, it doesn't surprise me that games with science behind them outperform those without science backing them.
science? LOL.
craftsmanship is what i want. masterminding a class of interactive experiences with a digital product is an act of craftsmanship. i want a master craftstman.. not a scientist.... see Alan Cooper's masterpiece About Face 3 for more on that.
now this craftsman may know a few things about computer science and software engineering... but i want Alan Cooper... not the guy who graduated #1 in the best computer science school in the world. or even the guy who graduated from some Game Design school and is running around calling himself a "Game Designer" because he memorized a few "principles". that theoretical guy probably knows more about science than Cooper. I'll take Cooper every time over any science guy any where.
regarding design philosophy... Blizzard's name indicates their over all development process from a macroscopic level. They were briefly called Chaos Studios. as a consumer i'm satisified with the fun i've had playing their games for the last 18 years. I like Blizzard's experimental approach as they craft and tune their games.
calling my support of Blizzard blind is a straw man.
i base my judgement on R'n'R Racing, Warcraft2 and 3, Diablo2 and 3, WoW, Hearthstone, Lost Vikings, SC1 and SC2 and how they'll cancel projects 5 years in because the game is not quite good enough.
i'm buying Overwatch on Day 1. I'll be having a bunch of giggling, silly, idiotic fun while you're running around expounding about design principles. To each their own.
Tying this back to the topic. Saying DK is grossly incompetent means Morhaime, Sigaty, and Pierce are not doing their jobs. Given their track record since 1991 this is unreasonable to believe. Your argument is invalid via Reductio Ad Absurdum.
You can't put LotV in the same boat as all those other games. Base your judgement on the entire Blizzard library all you want. Doesn't change the fact that they straight up threw their typical design process where they "did not release a game if it was not good enough" this time.
The Blizzard store stated the release date for the game March 2016. That was what it said the day I preordered it.Blizzard employees stated the LotV beta was going to be "far longer than any of the other Blizzard betas before". The beta was within 30 days of the length of HotS beta. The game released months before their scheduled release date, and within 2 weeks prior to the new release date announcement they reverted the beta changes in order to meet the new release date. They ONLY spent barely over a month for the entire "balancing" phase after the major changes at the end of beta, that's not even enough time for sufficient QA testing due to a changing metagame.
That's not the same Blizzard principles that were used historically. Ever. Even D3, as bad as it's release was.
+1
This is my opinion, but I've been playing Blizzard games since the 90s. Blackthorne felt 180% more baked than LOTV did on release. I think we're seeing a shift on how they treat their first releases, and IMO the balance is not in the favor of the early adopter.
On February 07 2016 14:26 Spyridon wrote: You can't put LotV in the same boat as all those other games. Base your judgement on the entire Blizzard library all you want. Doesn't change the fact that they straight up threw their typical design process where they "did not release a game if it was not good enough" this time.
you gotta be out of your tree if you think ATVI will allow a meaningless peanut-head release that makes no money to weaken the Blizzard brand. LotV ain't even gonna make $0.1 Billion. ATVI routinely cancels 5 year projects and insta-kills Guitar Hero and DJ Hero like they did a few years ago.. they can easily cancel LotV.
the new D3 content , WoW stuff, Overwatch, Hearthstone and LotV is all approximately same level of quality because its going through the same leadership group it always has.
if LotV were garbage it never would've seen the light of day.
if u want to see garbage though... check out Act of Aggression or Grey Goo. Both priced higher than LotV.... and not even 10% as much content.
diverse race RTS games are never good at balanced competitive 1v1 the first 6 months of release. never. ever. if u want that experience play one of Blizzard's other RTS games that is balanced. or play some C&C4 or maybe some Halo Wars
Well there are a ton of people who don't like the new wow stuff very much since ~Cataclysm, hearthstone attracts a completely different/new demographic, D3 is considered inferior to D2 by most people who played both games afaik (even though everyone knows D2 is far from perfect).. it's hard to deny there have been a serious decline in quality since the merge with activision. If you consider the art direction and storytelling, it's really obvious. Also, the leadership group is not the developper team. It may have remained in place but the teams haven't nor have the developing processes, the old craftmanship of Blizzard, and the quality arguably has gone down a lot with a lot more focus on wide-audience appeal, monetizations, quantity before quality.. Activision cares about money only, that kind of mentality always has a negative impact on quality.
LOTV.. the game itself, should be in a better state. It is not a new game, but an expansion. If you want to compare with TFT then, well I remember when TFT came out and even if nothing is ever immediately perfect people were enjoying it a ton and it was in a really good state. It's not like there were a whole list of things almost broken that took 6months to be fixed? And things like the music or the campaign / art direction were not criticized so harshly. There was a great chat interface, and custom games^^ Overall it was really solid and managed a big revamp of WC3 by improving and building on it..
I'm a blizzard fan, I love WC2, SC, Diablo 1 & 2, WC3... and I think WoW vanilla has pretty good things in it. But then as Wow made a ton of money and turned itself into as much of a cash cow as possible, Blizzard became too big and would only make games seaking to blow profit out of proportion to fill the portion of revenue that wow was losing (merging with Activision in the process). It's lost the making games with passion and creativity that it had. It's not like all it does is garbage, but in many ways it's pretty bad. The lesson is, there is no need for a company to become always bigger and always try to maximize profits ever further. That's not how you make better, or even good games. If the focus of the owners is to make good games, they shouldn't do that. If their priority is to put larger amounts of money in they pocket, then that's the way to go, but it's good for nobody else.
On February 07 2016 14:26 Spyridon wrote: You can't put LotV in the same boat as all those other games. Base your judgement on the entire Blizzard library all you want. Doesn't change the fact that they straight up threw their typical design process where they "did not release a game if it was not good enough" this time.
you gotta be out of your tree if you think ATVI will allow a meaningless peanut-head release that makes no money to weaken the Blizzard brand. LotV ain't even gonna make $0.1 Billion. ATVI routinely cancels 5 year projects and insta-kills Guitar Hero and DJ Hero like they did a few years ago.. they can easily cancel LotV.
the new D3 content , WoW stuff, Overwatch, Hearthstone and LotV is all approximately same level of quality because its going through the same leadership group it always has.
if LotV were garbage it never would've seen the light of day.
if u want to see garbage though... check out Act of Aggression or Grey Goo. Both priced higher than LotV.... and not even 10% as much content.
diverse race RTS games are never good at balanced competitive 1v1 the first 6 months of release. never. ever. if u want that experience play one of Blizzard's other RTS games that is balanced. or play some C&C4 or maybe some Halo Wars
You seriously think LotV did not weaken the Blizzard brand???
You speak like Blizzard is flawless and never released anything that was not gold. Do you think D3 didn't weaken the Blizzard brand either???
D3 did serious harm to the Blizzard brand, and after an expansion + years of updates, it's in a much better place now, but it still did so much harm to the brand that even with the feedback of how it's gotten better, many players are still writing off D3.
Blizzard used to be the gold standard. That's not the case anymore. You said it yourself, LotV isn't even going to make a fraction of what it's predecessors made.
You act like we never played RTS games the first 6 months of release. But every single Blizzard RTS after 1 expansion has been in a MUCH better place than LotV is after 2 expansions.
Just like the person above stated, when TFT came out for WC3, it completely redefined the game, and turned it in to a game that was much more competitive. Actual counters were in place, rather than just massing units like you did in vanilla WC3, and once TFT dropped there was consistent growth and players were very happy in comparison to vanilla release. The peak of WC3 was after TFT. LotV is the opposite situation.
I completely understand being a fan and supporting your brand. Blizzard was at one time my #1 fav company as well. But their quality has fell off severely in the last 5-10 years.
My points in my last post still stand anyway. You can argue that they won't weaken their brand, but you can't argue with the fact that they stated it was going to be a March 2016 release on their own store, and the game ended up being pushed up to Blizzcon, as well as they stated it was going to be a "far longer beta than any of their past betas" and that was cut short as well. This means by their own words, they are releasing it earlier than planned! They only left 1 month of time for a balancing phase after making major changes... Which any RTS player knows that's not nearly long enough for the metagame to settle and balance to be judged.
That is the complete opposite of what the Blizzard of old would have done. It was not delayed until it was ready. It was released early without sufficient time to even test balance changes, and broke their own promises of length of beta. They did not leave a couple months for balancing after major changes... How could you defend that? Even D3 vanilla got delayed after major changes. LotV did not.
Besides, the plummeting sales of the series and dropping activity of SC2 (with the INCREASING activity on BW) speak for itself.
Yeah, TFT or Brood War revitalised the games and made serious changes. LotV and HotS were more like unit patches and unfortunately even to a wrong direction. In my opinion WoL was the best game of the series, but still many tiers below BW. The whole warp-gate mechanic is just broken.
I mean, just think about real warfare. Someome would sneak near enemy base and plant a pylon and then just warp million soldiers there and wipe the base. How do you counter that? There is so few downsides in the core of this technology that it feels unfair. It neglects the defenders advantage if played correctly and therefore the units must be weak and when they are weak protoss needs OP-units which are not fun!
I kind of agree with kasapanos. I've been playing blizzard games since wc1 and I'll be completely honest here, LOTV is the first expansion ever that I didn't buy. What I loved the most about the original starcraft was how strong appropriate map positioning was. Unfortunately, the further we go into starcraft 2, the more craziness and mobility options all the races get.
Take tanks for example, one of the coolest, well thought out units in starcraft 1, in this game you can position them to try to contain an enemy, but an opposing terran has millions of dropships to fly around you, zerg has nydus worm, and a single pylon allows protoss to attack from anywhere.
Worse yet, since each race has inherent base defenses now, its damn near impossible to actually do any real damage with a rush unless you commit 110% to an all in. Mechanics like mass queens healing each other and photon overcharge actually detract from any real early game aggression, and allow the player using them to tech much more freely than was ever allowed in BW. I'm not saying they're imbalanced, I'm just saying its just not fun game design. No race (except maybe zerg, and even then) should be able to get a first expand, let alone a second expand, for free. Expanding was a risk in brood war, not making any units early was a risk in brood war, why isn't it now? Its almost as if blizzard actually wanted sc2 to be played "no rush 20 minutes," then realized that was boring, so with LOTV rather than fundamentally change bad design, they gave you a bunch of workers to speed it up.
I really miss playing starcraft, and I still watch it on twitch, but I really just don't see anything in LOTV that looks fun to me. Though if what Spyridon is saying is true and people are picking up BW again, I might have to give that a try. Glad I still have my disk
Odd, I feel that LotV is much closer to BW than WoL or HotS ever were. True, things like lack of any kind of early game rush option (resulting in free expands) and things like PO, dropping siege tanks and invincible nydus are bad design, but still SC2 was never this back and forth. And that is what I like the most about BW. I hated the deathball play from WoL and HotS and the lack of harassment (except Terran...). Both of these problems were fixed with LotV.
On February 10 2016 01:48 Paramisery wrote: Though if what Spyridon is saying is true and people are picking up BW again, I might have to give that a try. Glad I still have my disk
You can just look at the live streams along the right side of this site to see. I've followed them for awhile and they keep learning more and more to BW. For example, right now:
StarCraft: Brood War Britney 4332 Shuttle 1737 Calm 661 Mong 530 Movie 301 Larva 243 Mind 239 Jaehoon 167 Sharp 158 Free 105 Iris 46 [sc1f]eonzerg 44 M18M 20
On February 10 2016 01:58 CheddarToss wrote: Odd, I feel that LotV is much closer to BW than WoL or HotS ever were. True, things like lack of any kind of early game rush option (resulting in free expands) and things like PO, dropping siege tanks and invincible nydus are bad design, but still SC2 was never this back and forth. And that is what I like the most about BW. I hated the deathball play from WoL and HotS and the lack of harassment (except Terran...). Both of these problems were fixed with LotV.
I could see how in some ways it is more like BW, since it is more micro focused than before. But in other ways it is more distanced from BW than ever before. Aside from the things you mentioned, unit balance is more distanced from BW than ever, air units are more troublesome than ever, and expanding is more different than ever. BW-style timings are nearly non existent considering you pass through each tech tier so fast. And biggest issue, is theres less strategic decision making than ever.
You mention there is harassment, and that is true, but the risk vs reward factor of harassment is more different than ever when compared to BW as well.
Same as you I hated deathball play, but similar to how I mentioned in the earlier post that when they improved the games controls they added something to try to "make them harder"... Removing deathball play should have been an upgrade, but they added so much garbage along side it, it's hard for me to say the game we have now is "better" than what we had before. It's better in certain ways, worse in certain ways, and in the end is more mixed up than ever in the direction it's trying to go, and more volatile than ever. What type of player is their intended customer these days? Who are they actually targeting with the direction of the game? Seems they are only trying to minimize losses, resulting in a slower decline, rather than trying to give the game new life.
To me it seems that everything is still a deathball, just swept under the rug of how easy and early the harass is. After early or mid game everything is still deathball vs deathball. Positional play is still unimportant as everything is so mobile. Strategy has been replaced by unit compositions and hard counters.
Overall, you may be right that the game is closer to brood war then hots or wol. But that is like saying that skyrim is an improvement over oblivion. It is, but that doesn't mean the game has level of writing rising above super Mario bros or more depth then a puddle of water.
On February 10 2016 02:40 rockslave wrote: What I don't really understand is how anyone can think LotV is worse than HotS... It's SO much better, both to play and watch.
No deathballs, smaller skirmishers, more map control... It could be better, but it's way better than anything SC2 has ever been.
People dislike the work arounds, not the results.
Everything you say is true. Less death balls, smaller skirmishes, map control, etc... all are things that are now more present than before. What people don't like is the cause of these changes, not the changes themselves.
Its like anti-science folks who whine about GMO products while eating Tofu.
On February 07 2016 19:40 ProMeTheus112 wrote: Well there are a ton of people who don't like the new wow stuff very much since ~Cataclysm, hearthstone attracts a completely different/new demographic, D3 is considered inferior to D2 by most people who played both games afaik (even though everyone knows D2 is far from perfect).. it's hard to deny there have been a serious decline in quality since the merge with activision.
"Let’s admit it, Diablo 3 is killing it right now. Diablo 3 is a really fun game."
as a casual i liked RoS and Diablo3 a lot. but, i'm not a hardcore aRPG guy at all. it has satisfying combat mechanics and interesting character building.
Morhaime claims he is beyond proud of the team's work the past 5 years and that some of Blizzard's best work ever occurred in the past 5 years. He lists, WoW, SC2, Hearthstone, etc etc. I don't think its just marketing speak.
Morhaime lays down the gauntlet challenging the community to continue to have sky high expectations and continue to be critical of them. Like I've said before.. Mike has got balls. Mike is basically directing the community to keep the heat turned up high.
My Opinion on the "decline of Blizzard": its not an ATVI thing ; its a Rob Pardo thing While I think Blizzard is still very, very good and I love their games including Overwatch, D3, and Hearthstone... I believe Rob Pardo is the WayneGretzky//Kobe Bryant//Derek Jeter of game designers and simply can't be replaced. I don't think Blizzard is doing as good without Pardo, but i think they still make the best games in the industry. They've gone from being a 10/10 to a 9/10 without Pardo , imo.
There may be another Rob Pardo out there.. but you can't just stick out a Help Wanted Ad and expect him to show up next week. You also can't manufacture a genius like Pardo... a guy like that just happens man... and when it does.. you ride the wave.
On February 07 2016 19:40 ProMeTheus112 wrote: Well there are a ton of people who don't like the new wow stuff very much since ~Cataclysm, hearthstone attracts a completely different/new demographic, D3 is considered inferior to D2 by most people who played both games afaik (even though everyone knows D2 is far from perfect).. it's hard to deny there have been a serious decline in quality since the merge with activision.
"Let’s admit it, Diablo 3 is killing it right now. Diablo 3 is a really fun game."
My Opinion on the "decline of Blizzard": its not an ATVI thing ; its a Rob Pardo thing While I think Blizzard is still very, very good and I love their games including Overwatch, D3, and Hearthstone... I believe Rob Pardo is the WayneGretzky//Kobe Bryant//Derek Jeter of game designers and simply can't be replaced. I don't think Blizzard is doing as good without Pardo, but i think they still make the best games in the industry. They've gone from being a 10/10 to a 9/10 without Pardo , imo.
There may be another Rob Pardo out there.. but you can't just stick out a Help Wanted Ad and expect him to show up next week. You also can't manufacture a genius like Pardo... a guy like that just happens man... and when it does.. you ride the wave.
D3 is still a very fun game. Like, you can say D3 isn't your cup of tea, it's certainly different. You can say it's not as good as D2, that's fine. I don't think sequels are supposed to get exponentially better and better after every installment. Some games go in a different direction than what made you fall in love with one of the games, some games don't change at all and feel too rehashy, and some games just aren't better. Ultimately there was a lot of growing pains because real talk: no one from D2 worked on D3. (Besides Chris Metzen who worked on all the stories from the previous Diablo games, and that is still the worst part of Diablo is the story).
That being said, what did the Blizzard North team work on after leaving Blizzard? Hellgate: London and Marvel Heroes. So they're not perfect either. Hellgate: London was twice as bad as D3 ever was.
Yeah, but Rob Pardo left the company in 2014. People have been saying the "decline" is from 2005 on, Rob Pardo was with the company when SC2, D3 vanilla, and other games came out. I think people who believe that hold the opinion that Diablo III isn't as good as Diablo II, SC2 isnt as good as SC1, The newest WoW expansion isn't as good as the previous ones/vanilla, etc therefore Activision ruined the company.
On February 10 2016 02:36 Nazara wrote: To me it seems that everything is still a deathball, just swept under the rug of how easy and early the harass is. After early or mid game everything is still deathball vs deathball. Positional play is still unimportant as everything is so mobile. Strategy has been replaced by unit compositions and hard counters.
Overall, you may be right that the game is closer to brood war then hots or wol. But that is like saying that skyrim is an improvement over oblivion. It is, but that doesn't mean the game has level of writing rising above super Mario bros or more depth then a puddle of water.
Nothing was done to address deathballs, they just made it harder to turtle and max out by reducing mineral counts and adding harass options. Positional play is entirely negated by deathballs, there is no positional advantage too great that cannot be overcome by smashing into it with a deathball A-move.
In BW you had to built specific counters to turtle positions with spells like disruption web, dark swarm, yamato cannon etc. Now you just lift up with your 1000 medivacs and go around. Air units have so much speed they can all blow by turrets and any fighter aircraft except phoenix (why are transports faster than fighters?). In BW, the closest thing to this level of mobility was arbiter recalls, a very late-game and expensive unit. Now you just build a warp prism and it's like an arbiter.
the ATVI merger was announced in December 2007 and didn't get completed until the middle of 2008 due to regulators chekcing things out.
nit picking dates aside, i agree that the people who think the decline has been going on since 2008 think exactly the way you describe. they of course ignore Hearthstone in their narrative because the data does not fit their theory. a team of 12 made Hearthstone.
Blizzard needs another Pardo because Browder aint it. This does not mean I think Dustin Browder is a total idiot. He is really good but just less than a game design super-genius.
nah I think many people ignore hearthstone because a good portion of long time blizz fans have no interest in hearthstone (for being more into aRPG or RTS..), I know I don't, I know the game, I watch kripp or Day9 sometimes, but I just don't really care about it it's a gambling card game I can see there are good things about it and also bad things like stronger cards u must buy very heavily knowledge-focused constantly adding content to justify microtransactions and such things, I can see the trend is present on it as well but not interested in discussing it^^
also yeah Morhaime's little speech is of course marketing here (its a video with small hype snippets and movie-like music man), he completely eludes older games so no comparison is drawn and just lists the last few games that they currently are selling plus the next.. but it doesn't really matter what morhaime says Jimmy, what you think is what matters. It's not about just listening to the CEO and going well what he says must have great value cause he's the CEO, you gotta question what he says just like you'd question anybody else man. How do you even love overwatch, have you been playing it?
EPT
