EPTDavid Kim's Response on Community Feedback - Page 2
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Viperbird
United States118 Posts
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Penev
28475 Posts
On January 30 2016 11:08 Charoisaur wrote: I and others have explained often enough why the current mappool is stale and imbalanced and why map variety is good but clearly broken abusable map features are bad. If it gets ignored again and again, yeah then the feedback gets a little more unconstructive. But even this already sounds a lot better. just don't be a dick | ||
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Aiobhill
Germany283 Posts
For me, especially the timeframe on Online Systems is a bad joke. Some of the elements were around more than a decade ago for Warcraft III. Apart from some co-op matches now and then, I'm done with SC2. Won't ladder, won't watch, won't buy mission packs - as somebody who purchased all three parts as physical CEs. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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Silvana
3713 Posts
They guy just took some time to ask you to please stop shitting on them because it is not useful at all and it is counterproductive (it demoralizes the team), and what do you people do? Come here and make personal attacks on them. How many more times do you think a team can keep taking shit from the community for no good reason? Can't you see that personal attacks and discrediting the team for their work IS NOT HELPING the game and can possibly have a negative effect? You can't keep your hateful thoughts to yourselves, yet you ask for DK to swallow his ego. The irony... | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
On January 30 2016 11:08 Charoisaur wrote: I and others have explained often enough why the current mappool is stale and imbalanced and why map variety is good but clearly broken abusable map features are bad. If it gets ignored again and again, yeah then the feedback gets a little more unconstructive. So what? If someone asks your feedback but don't agree with it then that gives you the right to shit on them? Again my question don't you see you are having a negative effect on the game/scene you supposedly love and care so much for? | ||
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CheddarToss
534 Posts
Prion Terraces Due to the layout of the gold bases, games can play out very differently. Armies are more mineral heavy, and there are many counters and counters to counters to players taking gold expansions in different ways and different timings. :D Maybe if Adepts only cost minerals that map would be fair in PvZ, but as things stand it is insanely Zerg favoured. I don't care about "cool features", all I care about is that a map is balanced. | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
But on this case, David is just plain stubborn with the maps. Nothing is wrong with uniquenes, I bet, the community would love unique maps. But maps that are just unique by having one (broken) feature, are not unique, they are just bad. Bad designed and bad balanced. Prion for example is just this one "unique" feature, too many goldbases of which 2 are directly in reach for one race only. He doesnt even understand, that Goldbases dont give that gigantic income boost, but only 5% more income, when they are mined by 12 drones and the blue one is mined by 16 drones. Following that is a Zerg gameplay, that can cut 8 drones and gets around 10% better income, but mines out way to fast. The conclusion is a massive all in based Zerg gameplay with faster timing, that is out of balance. That is no unique gameplay, we seen all ins on every map, this just unique in the way the timing hits faster and become even stronger. It is like David does not understand what 2 goldbases on Prion even do and what follows them up in a ZvX game. Now he wants to look at "other features" of the maps to make the balance better. What shall that be? A supersmall natural ramp, so protoss and terran can hold a x2 gold base all in and then just outmine and die on that way? MOAR ROCKS? Fuck this shit, even Crazy Clash was a way better map then the shit we have to fight with at the moment. The whole Shoutcast Clanwars Pool looked better then this (okay, maybe not the draken cannons), they were unique: Unique tiles, unique features, unique bases. What David sees as unique, is just bullshit we have seen alot in the past and now have to watch again. 4 Bases with one choke? We had that so often on the "macromaps", like Deadwing. That gave us a insane amount of SwarmhostvP and SwarmhostvCancermech. We had this "fast small rush ways" on scrap station and other maps, there was even this one map, where only small units could use the "fast small rush way". We have wired shit 4 player maps like inferno pools with trash thrids and small rush ways (So small, close spawning was soon to be patched out). We had wired shit short rush maps since WoL Beta. Every of this unique feature David presents us, have been used already. Something truely unique, like the birdges, the mega base, the heal shrine and so on from crazy clash, a map I think is more balanced then most of the maps today, besides Overlord scout in ZvZ hitting very late. But thats also true on recent LotV maps where Overlord scouts too late, in ZvZ more then in other match ups, where drone scout isnt that punishing. This other crazy map with mineral and gold patches in each base + warcraft tileset + walls out of 35 minerals containing patches + egg was really cool and worth exploring. Other "cool" and unique features are neutral units, in BW there were neutral DTs to cut off a ramp. Neutral creep? Even a neutral Human Fortress out of planetary, bunker, tanks and turrets in the middle of map (which "protect" a double gold base") could be thing, that isnt too outbalanced, but just looks cool. But no, lets push for stupid "unique" shit we brought in since 5 years and didnt work out. David please rethink what you are doing! | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
Online Systems It’s encouraging to see that the community is eager for new content and features. However, we recognize that there is a temptation once we’ve talked about something new to want to see it in the game quickly. The reality is that feature and content development often takes more time than even we expect internally – and as a result, we ask for your patience and temperance in your responses each week. LOL. Yeah, I guess if your multi-billion dollar company doesn't want to higher more than 30 people or so initially for a project and then cuts the team down to ~7 then I guess shit is going to take longer huh? I absolutely loathe people who try to displace blame when it clearly lies within their company. Sad they take this approach. We can't do shit about it though, and that's one reason why the game continue to become less and less popular. | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24193 Posts
I really dislike this. I would much rather have the maps subtly different but the game allowing for a lot of varied strategies. Some maps that do have map specific builds are interesting but when every map has to be played around its main gimmicky feature, it's just silly in my opinion. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15928 Posts
On January 30 2016 11:20 Silvana wrote: So what? If someone asks your feedback but don't agree with it then that gives you the right to shit on them? Again my question don't you see you are having a negative effect on the game/scene you supposedly love and care so much for? It's not just me. By reading the comments to every thread regarding the current mappool it's clear that the vast majority hates the current mappool. and DK knows it if he reads them too (which he says he does). so he is intentionally making a decision that the community does not like. If that doesn't sound to you slightly egoistic I don't know what does. It's not my intention to bash him just to hurt his feelings I'm just very disappointed by his decisions. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On January 30 2016 10:31 Dayvie wrote: There have been some aspersions cast in various threads, alleging that our team is small, that our team is allocated to other projects, or that we delivered an incomplete product. None of these have merit, and frankly this kind of commentary is demotivating to the team. The entire development team from Legacy of the Void is continuing to work hard on StarCraft II – we believe we delivered a compelling scope in Legacy of the Void, and we are excited to have the opportunity to add even more content and features in the months ahead. Although we were disappointed to see so many unconstructive comments this week, we did appreciate that some constructive feedback is still occurring. Given the passion we see exhibited on both sides of the fence, we believe that the future holds great potential. Whether you are a supporter or a critic of our approach, we are grateful to you all for playing and watching StarCraft II! Hmm, I don't this is the right approach to handling the online community. To put it simply, haters gonna hate. The people that post the most are people that are angry for one or other reason, not the people that enjoy the game (they'll be in the game , playing). And the people that post are often people that say things without thinking, rather than people that carefully think through all sides of a problem before posting (those will probably not post at all, seeing that their complaints often don't really make sense). And it is important to not let that fact get to the developers, justified hate or not. So if the dev team is getting taken down by the tone, maybe better to put a layer in between. Have community managers that scoop up and forward the constructive ideas to the developers, together with any widespread systematic complains of a specific aspect of the game. Discourage (sensitive) developers to read the forums. Celebrate that one time when only 70% of the comments sling feces at you, that means that you've done great job! Take the team out for a drink! If you've watched tasteosis banter (you know, when they should be casting the game), they often make fun of how forum posters or twitch chat will pull out the harshest and rudest comments for the slightest misstep, or even possible misinterpretation. I think maybe the dev team could do with some of that approach. Seeing the forums as a kind of 4-chan brewing pit of poisonous crap, with the occasional unpolished gem floating to the top. After all, the hating forum posters don't only find blizzard to be mentally challenged, they hold most of the other forum posters in the same regard. In general, these posters find all the other posters (that don't agree with their every single idea) to be Royal Morons. So from Blizzards point of view it may look like a unified front against the dev team, but it is in fact more like a horde of hedgehogs of hate, everyone pointing spikes in all directions, including the other hedgehogs of hate. Everyone agrees that what blizzard is doing is horrible and bad and retarded, but they say the same thing of most of the other posters suggestions. The forums just hate on anything in sight, because it's easy, and because vocal minority. A better approach would be to not try to suppress the haters (gl with that... can you hold back the tide as well when you are done with that?), but rather encourage the good posts. In these feedbacks, if you occasionally refer to a specific poster, or specific posts that affected your discussion at any point (even if it didn't actually change anything at the end of the day), throw out a shout-out, or maybe even link to the post. It'll make everyone want to be the person cited, and will at least increase motivation for good feedback, if not suppress recreational hating. | ||
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AnDro_
8 Posts
I've been loving LotV so far, but I'm kind of deperate to play and watch games on some new maps at this point. | ||
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On January 30 2016 11:41 Foxxan wrote: Atleast they didnt say that negative people will always be negative this time around. Like some kind of politicians. Yeah, they should only think that, not say it out loud.  | ||
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Aiobhill
Germany283 Posts
On January 30 2016 11:17 Silvana wrote:They guy just took some time to ask you to please stop shitting on them because it is not useful at all and it is counterproductive (it demoralizes the team), and what do you people do? Come here and make personal attacks on them. Yeah. That's not how it works. There has been some exceedingly unconstructive feedback in the past for VW, Facebook, Mattel, whoever. You don't see a mid or upper-mid level manager come out and bash customers and tell them not to hurt their feelings. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 30 2016 11:34 Charoisaur wrote: It's not just me. By reading the comments to every thread regarding the current mappool it's clear that the vast majority hates the current mappool. and DK knows it if he reads them too (which he says he does). so he is intentionally making a decision that the community does not like. If that doesn't sound to you slightly egoistic I don't know what does. It's not my intention to bash him just to hurt his feelings I'm just very disappointed by his decisions. While I too dislike the current map pool and think it should change, the line of reasoning that the "majority of the community" wants something and therefore should get it is a terribly flawed approach. While the community almost always knows when something is wrong, its suggestions to fix said problem are generally awful. So not doing what the community wants is not inherently incorrect. | ||
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