EPTFirst Ten invites for SC2 Intel Extreme Masters - Page 7
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Fliparoni
205 Posts
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On January 22 2016 13:38 FrkFrJss wrote: Romanticize it as you want, but how many B-teamers have we really seen in 2015? Maybe like less than five? Most of the player who play in the iems and the dreamhacks are the top-tier players (or close to top-tier). I don't disagree that having so few top-level koreans is disappointing, and it is less of a draw to watch the tournaments. But, at the highest level, the top foreigners do produce games that are equivalent to mid-tier Koreans. Perhaps not as often, but it still does happen. Besides, I want to know how much you are REALLY able to distinguish between Korean games and top foreigner games. As much as I do think that Catz was somewhat mistaken in that noone could tell between any foreigners and any koreans playing if you hid the names, I would say that you would not be able to tell as clearly as you might think that koreans or foreigners are playing. LOL show me a single foreigner who has ever played half as well as Baby did versus Patience a few days ago. The KeSPA B-teamers who are on the Proleague teams and aren't playing televised matches may be indistinguishable to top tier foreigners, but the cream of the crop Korean A and S class players exist in an entirely different universe as they always have. | ||
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nerpderp
United States780 Posts
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FrkFrJss
Canada1208 Posts
On January 22 2016 15:12 Lunareste wrote: LOL show me a single foreigner who has ever played half as well as Baby did versus Patience a few days ago. The KeSPA B-teamers who are on the Proleague teams and aren't playing televised matches may be indistinguishable to top tier foreigners, but the cream of the crop Korean A and S class players exist in an entirely different universe as they always have. Scarlett vs bomber Red Bull Battlegrounds. It was one of best TvZs I've ever seen, and it was when Bomber was in better shape than he is now. Naniwa vs Life IEM New York, Idra vs Boxer Under your reasoning, which I know to be not 100% literal, these players have definitely played "half as well." I agree with you that the top level players are often at a different level, but I feel that the majority of Koreans that we talk about as being better are primarily those Code A/S level players, while the other Korean b-teamers and other unseen korean pros may not be so vastly better than the high level European pros (or even the (formerly) mid-high level of European pros)). I mean, take Snute versus Classic and Rain in IEM Shenzhen. While I do not remember if their play was particularly admirable, he won versus the best of the best players, who, even on off days should perform better than most if not all foreigners (under the logic of many people in this forum). | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
I think I would rather see no Starcraft at all rather than this watered down, racist version. Gotta agree. My outlook on SC2 fans definitely went down a notch. As a brood war contributor, not once have I ever let the status of the scene get to me. I've also watched the majority of SC2 tournaments and remained positive towards SC2 as a whole. Honestly, you guys who mock sentences or support the doom and gloom method suck. Find a way to start showing positive support, that's how things improve. Be constructive with every comment. Don't join the ranks of the rest of these downers. Bottom line, you can take my advice and add real contributions to the scene or become the social justice warrior that boycotted the game until you had nothing left. SC2 isn't dead in my eyes, but quality SC2 fans are. Lol! Blizzard has forced a ridiculously unfair set up on all Korean players, and we're not even supposed to call it out for being unfair? these new rules are completely and totally unfair and shit for Korean players. i am sorry but i don't think that i could even force myself to be positive about something so disgusting. i've never condoned the dedgaem circlejerk, but now all Korean players are effectively PROHIBITED from participating in GLOBAL events. i still can hardly believe that they actually went through with that | ||
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Nomzter
Sweden2802 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19384 Posts
On January 22 2016 15:47 Incognoto wrote: Intel Extreme Welfare! I think I would rather see no Starcraft at all rather than this watered down, racist version. Lol! Blizzard has forced a ridiculously unfair set up on all Korean players, and we're not even supposed to call it out for being unfair? these new rules are completely and totally unfair and shit for Korean players. i am sorry but i don't think that i could even force myself to be positive about something so disgusting. i've never condoned the dedgaem circlejerk, but now all Korean players are effectively PROHIBITED from participating in GLOBAL events. i still can hardly believe that they actually went through with that IEM is not to blame for this. You're arguing in all the wrong places. You can still support foreign players competing here while protesting the decision to block Koreans. And if you don't want to watch foreigners compete, then don't why bother posting in these threads? Your watered down trash posts aren't wanted here. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19384 Posts
On January 22 2016 15:54 Nomzter wrote: So its a "personality" tournament? Why aren't Winter, Destiny, Day9 etc invited? Is it? Or is it like the OP, based on wcs points and these are the best non Korean players? These players are pouring ridiculous amounts of effort into practicing LOTV and you guys have spent the entire thread trashing them. Why would any foreign player be motivated to play for such terrible fans? We need to start cultivating a positive atmosphere again. | ||
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caneras
433 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12133 Posts
On January 22 2016 16:01 BisuDagger wrote: IEM is not to blame for this. You're arguing in all the wrong places. You can still support foreign players competing here while protesting the decision to block Koreans. And if you don't want to watch foreigners compete, then don't why bother posting in these threads? Your watered down trash posts aren't wanted here. The fact is that this is decision of Blizzard who consulted it with several foreigner team owners/leaders(e.g. CatZ). The fact is that Blizzard in the longterm don't know what they want(drastic changes each year). Now the question is whether supporting foreign tournaments with Korean bans and giving negative feedback would change something. I think that it would signal that there are negative reactions but viewership stays the same(or is climbing). Therefore I am not supporting these tournaments unless there are actual top players. Because neither tournaments nor Blizzard won't know who is watching. When I give a negative feedback, they can think I was not watching(and others with negative attitude too) but the tournament still got pretty good numbers, so it's an OK solution for them. Thus I am not watching anything foreigner based. | ||
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Wrath
3175 Posts
On January 22 2016 16:05 BisuDagger wrote: Is it? Or is it like the OP, based on wcs points and these are the best non Korean players? These players are pouring ridiculous amounts of effort into practicing LOTV and you guys have spent the entire thread trashing them. Why would any foreign player be motivated to play for such terrible fans? We need to start cultivating a positive atmosphere again. I agree with this. As much as we hate the new system, we are also taking it a bit too far and bashing the foreigner players where they have 0 infrastructure support outside of the sponsor money that does not guarantee a good start in life after you finish your career as a progamer. The one who is blamed here is Blizzard. Instead of pouring all this money on prize pools that could have been used to create even a small infrastructure for foreigners in general like hiring coaches, creating small teams, team houses... etc and allow outside sponsors to sponsor them like Acer / Razer / GigaByte or anything. Blizzard kept throwing money on prize pools and allow Koreans who had an infrastructure that is over 10 years old to dominate. Now it is way too late for this system. | ||
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times. But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change. | ||
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Wrath
3175 Posts
On January 22 2016 16:52 Prog455 wrote: Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change. DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull. | ||
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Furinax
Netherlands75 Posts
Go Lilbow! Go Marinelord! Go Snute! So many people to cheer for... | ||
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack. | ||
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Wrath
3175 Posts
On January 22 2016 17:18 Prog455 wrote: Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack. HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home". | ||
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20-Minute-Jackal
United States336 Posts
On January 22 2016 17:29 WrathSCII wrote: HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home". *Unless you're Polt, Violet, or Hydra. | ||
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
On January 22 2016 17:29 WrathSCII wrote: HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home". Yes i'm quite aware of the current rules. My point is that this dude said that WCS had already had an impact on the SC2 he watched. However, not a single tournament so far has been affected. The first tournament to be affected by the new WCS system is yet to start, and consequently it is bullshit to say that he watched less SC2 because of WCS. Neither Dreamhack or IEM have at this point been affected, quite simply because they haven't yet been played. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12133 Posts
On January 22 2016 17:36 Prog455 wrote: Yes i'm quite aware of the current rules. My point is that this dude said that WCS had already had an impact on the SC2 he watched. However, not a single tournament so far has been affected. The first tournament to be affected by the new WCS system is yet to start, and consequently it is bullshit to say that he watched less SC2 because of WCS. Neither Dreamhack or IEM have at this point been affected, quite simply because they haven't yet been played. There were regional qualification without a qualification for the Korean slots. Is a qualification part of the tournament? Not sure whether it qualifies or not :-) | ||
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BlueStar
Bulgaria1176 Posts
On January 22 2016 16:05 BisuDagger wrote: Is it? Or is it like the OP, based on wcs points and these are the best non Korean players? These players are pouring ridiculous amounts of effort into practicing LOTV and you guys have spent the entire thread trashing them. Why would any foreign player be motivated to play for such terrible fans? We need to start cultivating a positive atmosphere again. There is no such justification in being a fan of somebody. Fans go with the strong ones, not with the people who behave like "I'll train for WarCraft4 and you'll see my power" ROFL Foreigners are nowhere near the level of the Koreans, and I love to see Korean SC. I know many people who have 15000 games and are still at diamond level, would you cheer for them than any progamer you know. Don't be ridiculous. The level of the foreign scene is declining and the esports fans don't want to watch cry babies and chobos. | ||
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