The Intel Extreme Masters World Championship in Katowice is looming on the horizon and we are ready to announce the first eight directly invited StarCraft II players for the WCS Winter Championship at the finale of the tenth Intel Extreme Masters season, as well as the top two Polish players that prevailed throughout the hard-fought Polish qualifiers.
The initial eight players are receiving their invites based on their standings in the 2015 WCS ranking, with the exclusion of players based in Korea, which gives us the following invites:
The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
On January 22 2016 03:31 Circumstance wrote: Isn't it funny how we never got this reaction when the same claim was made and the "world" consisted of only one country?
Not the best 32, but then again college sports in the US are immensely popular, when people know that the pro leagues are significantly better.
If these guys can give us entertaining close games, show that personality and creativity, it might not be too bad. Sometimes close entertaining games are better for a tournament than unleashing a couple of world class Koreans and getting a one-sided stomp and no surprises to who ends up lifting the trophy at the end.
"32 best player of the world". "world championship"
When they wouldnt use these words at least. Even I hate the new WCS, I can find understanding for the reasons for it. But saying these things is just smashing some crowbars in my face.
Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
Why even write best 32 when they know it is not true. It is just insulting to people who actually know the starcraft 2 scene. This is not even top 100 (Maybe the Koreans who are allowed there).
I will just pretend they would've announced the 32 best foreign players. I'm not sure if invites for this event are needed and useful, since its one of the first lotv events, and invites based on WCS points in hots seems quiete funny.
On January 22 2016 03:58 Bagration wrote: Not the best 32, but then again college sports in the US are immensely popular, when people know that the pro leagues are significantly better.
If these guys can give us entertaining close games, show that personality and creativity, it might not be too bad. Sometimes close entertaining games are better for a tournament than unleashing a couple of world class Koreans and getting a one-sided stomp and no surprises to who ends up lifting the trophy at the end.
Well...Polt and Hydra are arguably top 32, and Mana, Bunny, and Lilbow have consistently been able to do well even versus some mid-tier Koreans.
But, I imagine that this will be like WCS 2015. (with the exclusion of violet and forGG). If you liked the games there, then I imagine that the games now would be of similar caliber. Different, of course, due to LotV, but still very high level. Honestly, the EU scene is at the level that their players can compete with the middle-lower tier of Koreans, which is still very impressive.
Shouldn't the 8 invites have been qualifiers like the rest? It sounds a bit shitty, but surely that'd have been in line with fundamental tenet of giving foreign players a better, fairer field of play? Basing everything on WCS 2015 results sounds a bit daft, particularly in an (effectively) new game. Then again, many of them are crowd favourites anyway.
I also giggled at the "best 32" comment. Sorry, foreign players
On January 22 2016 04:43 DSK wrote: Shouldn't the 8 invites have been qualifiers like the rest? It sounds a bit shitty, but surely that'd have been in line with fundamental tenet of giving foreign players a better, fairer field of play? Basing everything on WCS 2015 results sounds a bit daft, particularly in an (effectively) new game. Then again, many of them are crowd favourites anyway.
I also giggled at the "best 32" comment. Sorry, foreign players
It's part of the rules for WCS WelfareCircuit events. The top 8 (That are eligible) in WCS standings get an automatic invite to the WCS WelfareCircuit Championships, since no WCS tournaments have been played it's based on 2015
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
The tournament will see (some of ) the best 32 StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Would've been fine for me. It's okay to hype it up.
On January 22 2016 03:23 Keeemy wrote: "The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete"
Woosh
They decided during last year that IEM Katowice was going to have 32 players instead or 16 as usual, and wrote this PR text. Then WCS 2016 came along, and they kept the text. True story. At least, I hope so, because else it's adding ridicule to the absurd.
Though I suggest Korea starts a diplomatic crisis over this, because not being part of "the world" is pretty big.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
Of course it is possible. Just technically not likely to ever happen.
-> Bring a lot of money to the table. Invest in coaches. Every pro player of every team is living in the same city (let's say London). Get an harmonized juridical status for professional players. Make it sustainable and hugely profitable. Organise leagues that occur every week, and broadcast it on TV. Make teenagers dream about being so good that they will earn a lot of money and be broadcasted on TV while their parents support them fully on their career.
Do it for 2 years, and watch the best guys of the foreign London scene competing on the total same level as the best kespa players from the Seoul scene.
If you think otherwise you probably should just go check any other sport on the fucking planet and tell me why korea isn't dominating every league
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
There is no way that the foreign scene would ever surpass Korea in general. There was a time when foreigners could compete with top koreans. Not many of them but there were some, Huk, Naniwa, Stephano, Idra etc. but with these changes foreigners will have no chance to practice against top koreans therefore no chance of competing agaisnt them in skill and yes Korea will always be the top of Starcraft unless everyone there quits and there are no new players to take their place. I hope that day will never come.
This (local players competing) might appeal to some of the casual viewers, but lets face it, the viewer base of starcraft is not that big and I would assume it is mostly the hardcore fans of starcraft that prefer high level of play which we will see a lot less of. That being said I will probably watch this tournament and DH and cheer for some of my favourite foreigners there is nothing wrong with that hopefully it will turn out to be entertaining.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
You funny kid. You tell funny joke lol
You got me laughing twice with this simple line. Good job :D
On January 22 2016 04:04 ProtossMasterRace wrote: Why even write best 32 when they know it is not true. It is just insulting to people who actually know the starcraft 2 scene. This is not even top 100 (Maybe the Koreans who are allowed there).
Yeah right... oh wait, actually no you are not. You are wrong.
I won´t argue that those are are top players, but according to aligulac they are all top 100. Which source did you use for claiming such a statement?
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
You funny kid. You tell funny joke lol
Why, he's not even that wrong. If Blizzard continue to divide the scene and exclude Koreans from the WCS events, the whole Korean scene may eventually just die out because there will not be more new Koreans to play the game, sponsors depart, etc. And at that point, the artificially stabilized European scene shall have surpassed Korea. (I hope it never comes to this, though.)
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
There is no way that the foreign scene would ever surpass Korea in general. There was a time when foreigners could compete with top koreans. Not many of them but there were some, Huk, Naniwa, Stephano, Idra etc. but with these changes foreigners will have no chance to practice against top koreans therefore no chance of competing agaisnt them in skill and yes Korea will always be the top of Starcraft unless everyone there quits and there are no new players to take their place. I hope that day will never come.
This (local players competing) might appeal to some of the casual viewers, but lets face it, the viewer base of starcraft is not that big and I would assume it is mostly the hardcore fans of starcraft that prefer high level of play which we will see a lot less of. That being said I will probably watch this tournament and DH and cheer for some of my favourite foreigners there is nothing wrong with that hopefully it will turn out to be entertaining.
Marinelord has recently beaten Parting and Innovation. Snute and Bunny beats Koreans from time to time aswell. Saying that Europeans will never reach the level of Koreans because they no longer compete against them is bullshit. Koreans made it to their current skill level only competing against themselves, surely there is no reason why Europeans shouldn't be able to do the same.
There is so much pro-Korea bias on this site, that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion about the state of SC2.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
You funny kid. You tell funny joke lol
Why, he's not even that wrong. If Blizzard continue to divide the scene and exclude Koreans from the WCS events, the whole Korean scene may eventually just die out because there will not be more new Koreans to play the game, sponsors depart, etc. And at that point, the artificially stabilized European scene shall have surpassed Korea. (I hope it never comes to this, though.)
Because A. As long as there is a Korean Scene it will never happen
B. If Korea dies the game dies so it won't happen that way either
The fact that anyone could think otherwise is laughable
Still not going to watch all tournaments that do not include koreans. Gimmicky bullshit to give foreign players who go to uni at the side some easy money. I don´t wanna see low quality games. Even the last WCS was close to beeing hilarious.
On January 22 2016 06:22 EXRNaRa wrote: Still not going to watch all tournaments that do not include koreans. Gimmicky bullshit to give foreign players who go to uni at the side some easy money. I don´t wanna see low quality games. Even the last WCS was close to beeing hilarious.
"best players"
I will definitely check the last Lilbow game before his retirement.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
There is no way that the foreign scene would ever surpass Korea in general. There was a time when foreigners could compete with top koreans. Not many of them but there were some, Huk, Naniwa, Stephano, Idra etc. but with these changes foreigners will have no chance to practice against top koreans therefore no chance of competing agaisnt them in skill and yes Korea will always be the top of Starcraft unless everyone there quits and there are no new players to take their place. I hope that day will never come.
This (local players competing) might appeal to some of the casual viewers, but lets face it, the viewer base of starcraft is not that big and I would assume it is mostly the hardcore fans of starcraft that prefer high level of play which we will see a lot less of. That being said I will probably watch this tournament and DH and cheer for some of my favourite foreigners there is nothing wrong with that hopefully it will turn out to be entertaining.
Marinelord has recently beaten Parting and Innovation. Snute and Bunny beats Koreans from time to time aswell. Saying that Europeans will never reach the level of Koreans because they no longer compete against them is bullshit. Koreans made it to their current skill level only competing against themselves, surely there is no reason why Europeans shouldn't be able to do the same.
There is so much pro-Korea bias on this site, that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion about the state of SC2.
On January 22 2016 06:27 Ctone23 wrote: I guess it's the popular thing to bash the new system and all, but sheeeesh I didn't think the reaction would be this harsh.
Blizzcon is Korea vs The World is it not? Oh well, memes gon meme
It's not necessarily bashing the system, but just laughing at a blatantly false statement.
On January 22 2016 06:27 Ctone23 wrote: I guess it's the popular thing to bash the new system and all, but sheeeesh I didn't think the reaction would be this harsh.
Blizzcon is Korea vs The World is it not? Oh well, memes gon meme
It's not necessarily bashing the system, but just laughing at a blatantly false statement.
Yeah it made me laugh as well, I just see a lot of nasty comments out there. I can't wait to watch :D
Well technically every foreigner can make adepts ravagers or liberators and be in the current top 32, the game is so new and weirdly/badly balanced that everything is possible.
On January 22 2016 04:43 DSK wrote: Shouldn't the 8 invites have been qualifiers like the rest? It sounds a bit shitty, but surely that'd have been in line with fundamental tenet of giving foreign players a better, fairer field of play? Basing everything on WCS 2015 results sounds a bit daft, particularly in an (effectively) new game. Then again, many of them are crowd favourites anyway.
I also giggled at the "best 32" comment. Sorry, foreign players
It's part of the rules for WCS WelfareCircuit events. The top 8 (That are eligible) in WCS standings get an automatic invite to the WCS WelfareCircuit Championships, since no WCS tournaments have been played it's based on 2015
On January 22 2016 06:19 BisuDagger wrote: You guys are some major downers lol. SMH
Haha, I personally found the message of IEM hilarious too so I can understand people nagging on it. I'm sure even without the top koreans it can be enjoyable, but personally I find this system really bad and depressing. I hope in 2017 there will be more showdowns of top foreigners vs top koreans again. Sucks that's far away though and who knows, maybe things will just get worse.
On January 22 2016 04:04 ProtossMasterRace wrote: Why even write best 32 when they know it is not true. It is just insulting to people who actually know the starcraft 2 scene. This is not even top 100 (Maybe the Koreans who are allowed there).
Yeah right... oh wait, actually no you are not. You are wrong.
I won´t argue that those are are top players, but according to aligulac they are all top 100. Which source did you use for claiming such a statement?
Any random Code B korean is better then foreigners and there is more of them then 100, didn't really look into it but I think that is a fair assumption to say that there are 100 better koreans then the best foreigners atm with the exception of the very few at the top who maybe, just maybe are in top 100.
I don't think anyone would be as negative as they are, if IEM used some other wording for this announcement. Calling these players the '32 best players' is just ridiculous.
I mean technically they aren't the 32 best SC2 players in the world, but I like that TLO was invited so he can win another tournament so it's all ok imo.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
You funny kid. You tell funny joke lol
Why, he's not even that wrong. If Blizzard continue to divide the scene and exclude Koreans from the WCS events, the whole Korean scene may eventually just die out because there will not be more new Koreans to play the game, sponsors depart, etc. And at that point, the artificially stabilized European scene shall have surpassed Korea. (I hope it never comes to this, though.)
Honestly at this point that's the brighter future for sc2. Because the other is no sc2 both in Korea and Eu.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
You funny kid. You tell funny joke lol
Why, he's not even that wrong. If Blizzard continue to divide the scene and exclude Koreans from the WCS events, the whole Korean scene may eventually just die out because there will not be more new Koreans to play the game, sponsors depart, etc. And at that point, the artificially stabilized European scene shall have surpassed Korea. (I hope it never comes to this, though.)
Instead of improving the foreigners we just kill the Korean scene... What a way for foreigners to surpass Korea, tie its arms and legs and start a wrestling match.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
There is no way that the foreign scene would ever surpass Korea in general. There was a time when foreigners could compete with top koreans. Not many of them but there were some, Huk, Naniwa, Stephano, Idra etc. but with these changes foreigners will have no chance to practice against top koreans therefore no chance of competing agaisnt them in skill and yes Korea will always be the top of Starcraft unless everyone there quits and there are no new players to take their place. I hope that day will never come.
This (local players competing) might appeal to some of the casual viewers, but lets face it, the viewer base of starcraft is not that big and I would assume it is mostly the hardcore fans of starcraft that prefer high level of play which we will see a lot less of. That being said I will probably watch this tournament and DH and cheer for some of my favourite foreigners there is nothing wrong with that hopefully it will turn out to be entertaining.
Marinelord has recently beaten Parting and Innovation. Snute and Bunny beats Koreans from time to time aswell. Saying that Europeans will never reach the level of Koreans because they no longer compete against them is bullshit. Koreans made it to their current skill level only competing against themselves, surely there is no reason why Europeans shouldn't be able to do the same.
There is so much pro-Korea bias on this site, that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion about the state of SC2.
This
ML is a cheater. Check his the next first OFFLINE game and you will see how bad he actually is. French eSports scene is worse then pron
On January 22 2016 03:58 Bagration wrote: Not the best 32, but then again college sports in the US are immensely popular, when people know that the pro leagues are significantly better.
If these guys can give us entertaining close games, show that personality and creativity, it might not be too bad. Sometimes close entertaining games are better for a tournament than unleashing a couple of world class Koreans and getting a one-sided stomp and no surprises to who ends up lifting the trophy at the end.
I for one have NEVER understood the appeal of college sports. Who cares who wins a tournament if you know the winner of that under league would just get wrecked by a pro or a pro team?
I've never understood only watching 2nd rate kinds of competition.
On January 22 2016 03:26 Ej_ wrote: Is The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete going to be the new meme?
its actually going to be an old one. Because the best player in the world (outside of korea) is from bw times. But yeah with the regions that cut off we can start that again.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
There is no way that the foreign scene would ever surpass Korea in general. There was a time when foreigners could compete with top koreans. Not many of them but there were some, Huk, Naniwa, Stephano, Idra etc. but with these changes foreigners will have no chance to practice against top koreans therefore no chance of competing agaisnt them in skill and yes Korea will always be the top of Starcraft unless everyone there quits and there are no new players to take their place. I hope that day will never come.
This (local players competing) might appeal to some of the casual viewers, but lets face it, the viewer base of starcraft is not that big and I would assume it is mostly the hardcore fans of starcraft that prefer high level of play which we will see a lot less of. That being said I will probably watch this tournament and DH and cheer for some of my favourite foreigners there is nothing wrong with that hopefully it will turn out to be entertaining.
Marinelord has recently beaten Parting and Innovation. Snute and Bunny beats Koreans from time to time aswell. Saying that Europeans will never reach the level of Koreans because they no longer compete against them is bullshit. Koreans made it to their current skill level only competing against themselves, surely there is no reason why Europeans shouldn't be able to do the same.
There is so much pro-Korea bias on this site, that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion about the state of SC2.
This
ML is a cheater. Check his the next first OFFLINE game and you will see how bad he actually is. French eSports scene is worse then pron
User was temp banned for this post.
You are telling me it was not the lack of sleep from INno??? fml
Idk why you want to watch Korean in foreign tournament so much. If you want to watch Korean, watch Korean tournament. You can do this everyday when proleague starts. They prepare for Korean tournament far better than foreign tournament. You can watch better quality game than foreign tournament.
You should learn these Korean dominated scene is stupid and bad for this game. Blizzard is trying to change this. SC2 is the only community that likes Korean dominated scene. Learn how LoL community don't like Korean domination and their love for local team.
The initial eight players are receiving their invites based on their standings in the 2015 WCS ranking, with the exclusion of players based in Korea, which gives us the following invites:
The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
To be fair, a tournament has probably never had "the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world".
There's always people who don't go, or people who won in qualifiers (or previous tournaments) and are no longer in top form, or were invited purely based on popularity. Aside from it's now against the rules, this seems pretty similar to early days of SC2 when Koreans simply didn't attend as many foreign events -- which were honestly some of the most enjoyable tournaments.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The initial eight players are receiving their invites based on their standings in the 2015 WCS ranking, with the exclusion of players based in Korea, which gives us the following invites:
seriously, fuck you Blizzard
On January 22 2016 08:44 UberNuB wrote: I for one am optimistic for 2016.
Definitely top 32 if you set your standards really low and forget Korea exists. I enjoy foreigners as much as the next person, but Polt and Hydra are basically being handed cakewalks based purely on geographical location.
They could have been honest with it and everyone would have been ok with an albeit lower level of play but probably still entertaining event. Nah they just had to add fuel to the fire...
On January 22 2016 09:00 OveRtheStarS wrote: Definitely top 32 if you set your standards really low and forget Korea exists. I enjoy foreigners as much as the next person, but Polt and Hydra are basically being handed cakewalks based purely on geographical location.
You realize there is a very low probability that either of them win the whole thing.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
The hilarious thing is that lots of people would be perfectly happen to do just that, but Blizzard ignored our requests for tournament support of any kind. Now that all the people that want to see compelling games, not necessarily the best players, have left they come around years too late.
There is a reason that every successful sport has thriving semi-pro feeder leagues.
I haven't seen this level of negativity in these forums in a long time, LotV games look sick (way better than the average HotS game even with people crying imba), foreigner tournaments have always had limited Korean pool, Blizzard is still supporting WCS, what's the big fucking deal. Everybody is acting as if Blizzard just destroyed the scene, the truth is so far from that. Blizzard just regulates and supports the WCS system, tournaments outside the WCS system doesn't have to abide by its rules (see basically every Chinese tournament ever), without the WCS support we might have even less tournaments than now. Now people are over reacting over a PR statement?
On January 22 2016 09:00 OveRtheStarS wrote: Definitely top 32 if you set your standards really low and forget Korea exists. I enjoy foreigners as much as the next person, but Polt and Hydra are basically being handed cakewalks based purely on geographical location.
I'm a bit confounded by this, if they're going to go to the effort to exclude Korea from all WCS Circuit events, why bother inviting Polt and Hydra? Sure they may not exclude them because they have residency, but why invite them instead of just requiring them to go through the qualifiers like the other 24 people?
On January 22 2016 08:32 Horiken wrote: Idk why you want to watch Korean in foreign tournament so much. If you want to watch Korean, watch Korean tournament. You can do this everyday when proleague starts. They prepare for Korean tournament far better than foreign tournament. You can watch better quality game than foreign tournament.
You should learn these Korean dominated scene is stupid and bad for this game. Blizzard is trying to change this. SC2 is the only community that likes Korean dominated scene. Learn how LoL community don't like Korean domination and their love for local team.
Because the biggest hype in the history of SC2 was created when a foreigner was able to beat a Korean, even if it wasn't a grand finale match. And that's being taken away to give Polt and Hydra some easy money.
When people tell me to just watch GSL, they are right, I could do that and I do that. But the difference is: Last year I could travel to Katovice, its not that expansive to travel there from Germany and see top Koreans playing against each other on a stage. And not only there, but also at Dreamhacks in Sweden, France and other europeen states, 2014 I could see strong Koreans like Patience 3 times a year in a league. When I know want to see Koreans live or even get a signing of them, I have to travel far far away to Korea. The outlaw of Koreas kills all the possibilty to meet your idols without a expensive travel commitment in a country, you have never been before. It is really frustrating and I am happy, that I could use the years 2014 and 2015 for that, just cutting it off, is really sad.
I can cheer for Foreigners, but not for medicore ones. When you have 29 foreigners (I think Violet will qualify via US Server) at such a tournament, where you could see herO, INnoVation, Zest, Maru, $o$ and others, its just sad.
And there is something else, that bugs me: Foreigners will not become better by beating foreigners. They will maintain their skill, but they cannot become better from just 100 games Polt and Hydra have to spent each month on the NA server. 2014 we had complete other sitiuation, foreigners could not make the money they can do now (as non top 16 koreans had the same problem in korea) but they could improve, after the old WoL foreigner generation left the scene, because they could only maintain their skill, but not improve like koreans, 2014 brought us a new generation of foreigners, who improved rapidly under the heavy pressure of koreans in EU. (Not mentioning NA scene, as they have been screwed over). Sure, we got good player here in EU, but not the best ones. When Blizzard wouldnt run these tournaments, but just pay Nerchio 70k+ $ (the amount of money he could earn this year in the circuit) and let him play in korea, I could see him becoming a sold GSL contender after a time. Sure we wouldnt have blizzard sponsored foreign only tournaments here in EU, but thats the only way to get foreigner to korean lvl. But at the moment, even when foreigner can beat top koreans sometimes online or offline, there is a very high skillgap, that cant be closes, when koreans stay in korea and foreigners never play them on a daily base. And the only time we had that daily base, was 2014 WCS EU. And whoever foreign SC II pro says, he can train and become better in this circuit instead of the WCS EU 2014, is just straight out lying. Maybe can now either make more money next to his university or can go full pro without having to worry about paying his flat and thats a good thing, but he will not become better of it. Combining the amount of earnable money of 2016 and the training of 2014 would have been the best. But for that, Blizzard would have to pay even more for the circuit and they dont want to do that. They better invest 4M in heroes, which doesnt even get 1/2 of the daily streamer viewers then SC II at the moment and their tournaments dont run well either.
Else we will just see koreans losing their lvl, as orgs pull out, game dies. SC II will not even become something like BW on Afreeca, it will just vanish, when the Samsung, SKT, KT, CJ and Korean Airlines (Jin Air) leave the game 2018 or 2019. Then we have foreigners being the best player of the world. But that cant be the way to go. When koreans could play in the circuit, the korean scene would always survive, as there would always be korean players picked up by western orgs. But under this rules, I see GSL, SSL and SPL die in 2-3 years off (they would also die without the circuit rules in my Opinion) but with these rules, the korean scene will be gone. And with the korean scene, the high lvl of play will be gone. And that sucks to me.
I think I will watch the Top 8 of Kato, as they should be off a good lvl, arround WCS 2015 top 8. At that point, the competition reaches a strong lvl. On the other days, there is CS:GO, Swedens and french man are still allowed to play, even when they are the strongest countries.
On January 22 2016 09:00 OveRtheStarS wrote: Definitely top 32 if you set your standards really low and forget Korea exists. I enjoy foreigners as much as the next person, but Polt and Hydra are basically being handed cakewalks based purely on geographical location.
I'm a bit confounded by this, if they're going to go to the effort to exclude Korea from all WCS Circuit events, why bother inviting Polt and Hydra? Sure they may not exclude them because they have residency, but why invite them instead of just requiring them to go through the qualifiers like the other 24 people?
Because it would be against their own rules to not invite them. You cant just say "okay, you got residency, you are allowed to play, but you dont get invites even tho you are Nr 1 and 3 on the WCS 2015 no "non Visa Koreans"-List." Doing that would be super stupid.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
There is no way that the foreign scene would ever surpass Korea in general. There was a time when foreigners could compete with top koreans. Not many of them but there were some, Huk, Naniwa, Stephano, Idra etc. but with these changes foreigners will have no chance to practice against top koreans therefore no chance of competing agaisnt them in skill and yes Korea will always be the top of Starcraft unless everyone there quits and there are no new players to take their place. I hope that day will never come.
This (local players competing) might appeal to some of the casual viewers, but lets face it, the viewer base of starcraft is not that big and I would assume it is mostly the hardcore fans of starcraft that prefer high level of play which we will see a lot less of. That being said I will probably watch this tournament and DH and cheer for some of my favourite foreigners there is nothing wrong with that hopefully it will turn out to be entertaining.
Marinelord has recently beaten Parting and Innovation. Snute and Bunny beats Koreans from time to time aswell. Saying that Europeans will never reach the level of Koreans because they no longer compete against them is bullshit. Koreans made it to their current skill level only competing against themselves, surely there is no reason why Europeans shouldn't be able to do the same.
There is so much pro-Korea bias on this site, that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion about the state of SC2.
This
Beating some Koreans once doesn't prove anything. Especially when it comes to that Nation wars performance.
That said, I've been saying it since TB said it. We need something like SHOUTCraft back. Otherwise all this system is gonna do is have the BW scene all over again where the Koreans just smite everyone at Blizzcon even more so than they did last year.
Oh for fucks sake. Aren't you all fucking precious?
You know what Korea is? A saturated market. You know where Blizzard wants to market their games? With the rest of the 7 fucking billion people on this planet.
If the Korean scene is too bloated to keep itself healthy, it should shed some of its dead weight. That's how things work. If the "experts" on this board are to be believed there are only 10 Koreans who are actually good anyway, so who cares about the rest? Otherwise let Kespa do something about it. That's their purpose, no?
On January 22 2016 03:58 Bagration wrote: Not the best 32, but then again college sports in the US are immensely popular, when people know that the pro leagues are significantly better.
If these guys can give us entertaining close games, show that personality and creativity, it might not be too bad. Sometimes close entertaining games are better for a tournament than unleashing a couple of world class Koreans and getting a one-sided stomp and no surprises to who ends up lifting the trophy at the end.
I for one have NEVER understood the appeal of college sports. Who cares who wins a tournament if you know the winner of that under league would just get wrecked by a pro or a pro team?
I've never understood only watching 2nd rate kinds of competition.
Passion and nostalgia I think. Margin of error is thinner, you got kids playing their hearts out instead of sometimes diva pros, and there really is a sense of community among school fan bases.
Plus it brings many people back to their own college days. There's an emotional aspect to it.
On January 22 2016 03:20 WrathSCII wrote: The tournament will see the 32 best StarCraft II players in the world compete and we anxiously await the results of the remaining regional qualifiers to reveal the remaining 22 players.
Facepalm.gif
These are not the best 32 players in the world... these are the best 32 players in this stupid bubble created by Blizzard to foster local talent at the expense of match quality.
Honestly Stuchiu was right. People might not like his ESPN article because it's negative, but this scene is declining fast. I have absolutely no desire to watch any tournament that doesn't at least have a couple of decent Koreans to set the bar.
Otherwise I might as well just watch my friends play each other.
How can you say that the scene is declining fast when you haven't even seen the viewer numbers for this tournament. SC2 is more than just Korea, and just because Korea historically has been the superior country, there is no reasons that we can't build a strong european scene. One that might eventually surpass Korea
There is no way that the foreign scene would ever surpass Korea in general. There was a time when foreigners could compete with top koreans. Not many of them but there were some, Huk, Naniwa, Stephano, Idra etc. but with these changes foreigners will have no chance to practice against top koreans therefore no chance of competing agaisnt them in skill and yes Korea will always be the top of Starcraft unless everyone there quits and there are no new players to take their place. I hope that day will never come.
This (local players competing) might appeal to some of the casual viewers, but lets face it, the viewer base of starcraft is not that big and I would assume it is mostly the hardcore fans of starcraft that prefer high level of play which we will see a lot less of. That being said I will probably watch this tournament and DH and cheer for some of my favourite foreigners there is nothing wrong with that hopefully it will turn out to be entertaining.
Marinelord has recently beaten Parting and Innovation. Snute and Bunny beats Koreans from time to time aswell. Saying that Europeans will never reach the level of Koreans because they no longer compete against them is bullshit. Koreans made it to their current skill level only competing against themselves, surely there is no reason why Europeans shouldn't be able to do the same.
There is so much pro-Korea bias on this site, that it is impossible to have a reasonable discussion about the state of SC2.
The Koreans made their current level because of two things: Every Korean who has been really succesful was in a team with a rather strict training regime. And to win anything they had to reach an insanely high level of play. You are right, Koreans made it to their current skill level only by competing against themselves, but the difference is: The Koreans were the best at the time. They had to beat the best players.
For WCS 2016 however... ... well... Europeans are still not gonna have a good training environment and Europeans won't ever compete with the best beside Blizzcon. That's quite a huge difference.
A lot of frustration to vent over the new wcs system though. Separating foreigners from Koreans is a bit like putting the kids with bad grades in the slow class and expecting them to somehow catch up to the kids in the normal classes. The gap will just keep getting wider.
On January 22 2016 04:04 Hadronsbecrazy wrote: but won't lilbow be practising for Warcraft 4?
I hear he's practicing half life 3 these days. lol poor lilbow will never live that decision down.
On January 22 2016 10:56 Rehio wrote: I hate how this entire thread has turned into mocking a single sentence.
Nothing forced them to word it that way. Some PR pros approved of this. I hope for them that they saw it coming.
On January 22 2016 10:23 Thax wrote: Oh for fucks sake. Aren't you all fucking precious?
You know what Korea is? A saturated market. You know where Blizzard wants to market their games? With the rest of the 7 fucking billion people on this planet.
If the Korean scene is too bloated to keep itself healthy, it should shed some of its dead weight. That's how things work. If the "experts" on this board are to be believed there are only 10 Koreans who are actually good anyway, so who cares about the rest? Otherwise let Kespa do something about it. That's their purpose, no?
Are you trying to deny the Korean dominance on the Starcraft scene 17 years in its existence? Also you're missing the point. All these angry people don't really care for Korea itself, they just want to see the best games possible with the actual best players in the world. They just happen to be mostly Korean. Before you could see them in 4 seasons of 2 solo competitions, 1 team league, and you could catch half a dozen at international events all year long. Now you only have 2 seasons and nothing much else. It inevitably left a sour taste in one's mouth, and someone at ESL just added salt to it.
On January 22 2016 10:56 Rehio wrote: I hate how this entire thread has turned into mocking a single sentence.
Yep - there is a lot of toxicity and entitlement in these forums.
Looking forward to seeing the games, especially Polt and Bunny.
Gotta agree. My outlook on SC2 fans definitely went down a notch. As a brood war contributor, not once have I ever let the status of the scene get to me. I've also watched the majority of SC2 tournaments and remained positive towards SC2 as a whole. Honestly, you guys who mock sentences or support the doom and gloom method suck. Find a way to start showing positive support, that's how things improve. Be constructive with every comment. Don't join the ranks of the rest of these downers. Bottom line, you can take my advice and add real contributions to the scene or become the social justice warrior that boycotted the game until you had nothing left. SC2 isn't dead in my eyes, but quality SC2 fans are.
I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke. You've left 90% of the top quality players to play in like 10% of the tournaments. Why? Because foreigners couldn't compete and you want a bigger market of shit instead of a smaller marker with higher quality. Business stand point in the long term it does make sense, but short term and from a fan point of view we should rightfully be upset.
Think of the poor B-team Korean who is easily better than the majority of the foreign scene, now impossible for them to follow their dreams while we get entitled foreigners being actually rewarded because they are weaker. The strong is suppose to survive not the weak.
Personally I may try and stay up eventually to watch a gsl game or two this season but tournaments with complete sub par players and 1-3 good players hold no interest to me. Just throwing in my two cents since this thread seems to have devolved into a shit show.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke. You've left 90% of the top quality players to play in like 10% of the tournaments. Why? Because foreigners couldn't compete and you want a bigger market of shit instead of a smaller marker with higher quality. Business stand point in the long term it does make sense, but short term and from a fan point of view we should rightfully be upset.
Think of the poor B-team Korean who is easily better than the majority of the foreign scene, now impossible for them to follow their dreams while we get entitled foreigners being actually rewarded because they are weaker. The strong is suppose to survive not the weak.
Personally I may try and stay up eventually to watch a gsl game or two this season but tournaments with complete sub par players and 1-3 good players hold no interest to me. Just throwing in my two cents since this thread seems to have devolved into a shit show.
Romanticize it as you want, but how many B-teamers have we really seen in 2015? Maybe like less than five? Most of the player who play in the iems and the dreamhacks are the top-tier players (or close to top-tier).
I don't disagree that having so few top-level koreans is disappointing, and it is less of a draw to watch the tournaments. But, at the highest level, the top foreigners do produce games that are equivalent to mid-tier Koreans. Perhaps not as often, but it still does happen.
Besides, I want to know how much you are REALLY able to distinguish between Korean games and top foreigner games. As much as I do think that Catz was somewhat mistaken in that noone could tell between any foreigners and any koreans playing if you hid the names, I would say that you would not be able to tell as clearly as you might think that koreans or foreigners are playing.
So much whining and complaining. First you ask for foreigner only tournament, now you want it to be open for all. They cant please everyone.
Go ahead and boycott or whatever. I hope they shut down all the tournaments and WCS after 2016 viewership numbers so i can read even more whining and crying on TL. Its fucking sad to see what this forum has turned into.
On January 22 2016 12:21 Tenks wrote: Wow this thread is a shitshow. We need some mods in here.
Nah, people should be allowed to have a negative opinion without being censored.
I don't speak for anyone else, but I'm not happy about the new system, could be that's what your seeing reflected in peoples opinions and sarcasm.
There have been a good amount of bad decisions over the years regarding this game I love.
I mean, bunny looked pretty damn bad at HSC and he's not even a player now, but a student. It appears he wasn't thriving in that role and competition like Suppy did.
The invites are also based on standings for a very different game, HOTS.
I can't help but feel solar should be attending.
It's an intel without Hero... How fair does that seem?
Pretty silly to say 'the best', but whatever, we all know they aren't. Dunno why people are getting so upset about it.
Doubt i'll watch much since the only foreigner I really like is Pet and he's at school now. But of the people invited i'd love to see TLO win, he just seems like such a great guy :D
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke. You've left 90% of the top quality players to play in like 10% of the tournaments. Why? Because foreigners couldn't compete and you want a bigger market of shit instead of a smaller marker with higher quality. Business stand point in the long term it does make sense, but short term and from a fan point of view we should rightfully be upset.
Think of the poor B-team Korean who is easily better than the majority of the foreign scene, now impossible for them to follow their dreams while we get entitled foreigners being actually rewarded because they are weaker. The strong is suppose to survive not the weak.
Personally I may try and stay up eventually to watch a gsl game or two this season but tournaments with complete sub par players and 1-3 good players hold no interest to me. Just throwing in my two cents since this thread seems to have devolved into a shit show.
Romanticize it as you want, but how many B-teamers have we really seen in 2015? Maybe like less than five? Most of the player who play in the iems and the dreamhacks are the top-tier players (or close to top-tier).
I don't disagree that having so few top-level koreans is disappointing, and it is less of a draw to watch the tournaments. But, at the highest level, the top foreigners do produce games that are equivalent to mid-tier Koreans. Perhaps not as often, but it still does happen.
Besides, I want to know how much you are REALLY able to distinguish between Korean games and top foreigner games. As much as I do think that Catz was somewhat mistaken in that noone could tell between any foreigners and any koreans playing if you hid the names, I would say that you would not be able to tell as clearly as you might think that koreans or foreigners are playing.
LOL show me a single foreigner who has ever played half as well as Baby did versus Patience a few days ago.
The KeSPA B-teamers who are on the Proleague teams and aren't playing televised matches may be indistinguishable to top tier foreigners, but the cream of the crop Korean A and S class players exist in an entirely different universe as they always have.
Why are there invites at all for this tournament? It's a new year, and a new game entirely. You're essentially giving free money to players who did well LAST year, instead of players who are doing well right now. It makes no sense.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke. You've left 90% of the top quality players to play in like 10% of the tournaments. Why? Because foreigners couldn't compete and you want a bigger market of shit instead of a smaller marker with higher quality. Business stand point in the long term it does make sense, but short term and from a fan point of view we should rightfully be upset.
Think of the poor B-team Korean who is easily better than the majority of the foreign scene, now impossible for them to follow their dreams while we get entitled foreigners being actually rewarded because they are weaker. The strong is suppose to survive not the weak.
Personally I may try and stay up eventually to watch a gsl game or two this season but tournaments with complete sub par players and 1-3 good players hold no interest to me. Just throwing in my two cents since this thread seems to have devolved into a shit show.
Romanticize it as you want, but how many B-teamers have we really seen in 2015? Maybe like less than five? Most of the player who play in the iems and the dreamhacks are the top-tier players (or close to top-tier).
I don't disagree that having so few top-level koreans is disappointing, and it is less of a draw to watch the tournaments. But, at the highest level, the top foreigners do produce games that are equivalent to mid-tier Koreans. Perhaps not as often, but it still does happen.
Besides, I want to know how much you are REALLY able to distinguish between Korean games and top foreigner games. As much as I do think that Catz was somewhat mistaken in that noone could tell between any foreigners and any koreans playing if you hid the names, I would say that you would not be able to tell as clearly as you might think that koreans or foreigners are playing.
LOL show me a single foreigner who has ever played half as well as Baby did versus Patience a few days ago.
The KeSPA B-teamers who are on the Proleague teams and aren't playing televised matches may be indistinguishable to top tier foreigners, but the cream of the crop Korean A and S class players exist in an entirely different universe as they always have.
Scarlett vs bomber Red Bull Battlegrounds. It was one of best TvZs I've ever seen, and it was when Bomber was in better shape than he is now.
Naniwa vs Life IEM New York, Idra vs Boxer
Under your reasoning, which I know to be not 100% literal, these players have definitely played "half as well."
I agree with you that the top level players are often at a different level, but I feel that the majority of Koreans that we talk about as being better are primarily those Code A/S level players, while the other Korean b-teamers and other unseen korean pros may not be so vastly better than the high level European pros (or even the (formerly) mid-high level of European pros)).
I mean, take Snute versus Classic and Rain in IEM Shenzhen. While I do not remember if their play was particularly admirable, he won versus the best of the best players, who, even on off days should perform better than most if not all foreigners (under the logic of many people in this forum).
I think I would rather see no Starcraft at all rather than this watered down, racist version.
Gotta agree. My outlook on SC2 fans definitely went down a notch. As a brood war contributor, not once have I ever let the status of the scene get to me. I've also watched the majority of SC2 tournaments and remained positive towards SC2 as a whole. Honestly, you guys who mock sentences or support the doom and gloom method suck. Find a way to start showing positive support, that's how things improve. Be constructive with every comment. Don't join the ranks of the rest of these downers. Bottom line, you can take my advice and add real contributions to the scene or become the social justice warrior that boycotted the game until you had nothing left. SC2 isn't dead in my eyes, but quality SC2 fans are.
Lol!
Blizzard has forced a ridiculously unfair set up on all Korean players, and we're not even supposed to call it out for being unfair?
these new rules are completely and totally unfair and shit for Korean players. i am sorry but i don't think that i could even force myself to be positive about something so disgusting.
i've never condoned the dedgaem circlejerk, but now all Korean players are effectively PROHIBITED from participating in GLOBAL events.
i still can hardly believe that they actually went through with that
Gotta agree. My outlook on SC2 fans definitely went down a notch. As a brood war contributor, not once have I ever let the status of the scene get to me. I've also watched the majority of SC2 tournaments and remained positive towards SC2 as a whole. Honestly, you guys who mock sentences or support the doom and gloom method suck. Find a way to start showing positive support, that's how things improve. Be constructive with every comment. Don't join the ranks of the rest of these downers. Bottom line, you can take my advice and add real contributions to the scene or become the social justice warrior that boycotted the game until you had nothing left. SC2 isn't dead in my eyes, but quality SC2 fans are.
Lol!
Blizzard has forced a ridiculously unfair set up on all Korean players, and we're not even supposed to call it out for being unfair?
these new rules are completely and totally unfair and shit for Korean players. i am sorry but i don't think that i could even force myself to be positive about something so disgusting.
i've never condoned the dedgaem circlejerk, but now all Korean players are effectively PROHIBITED from participating in GLOBAL events.
i still can hardly believe that they actually went through with that
IEM is not to blame for this. You're arguing in all the wrong places. You can still support foreign players competing here while protesting the decision to block Koreans. And if you don't want to watch foreigners compete, then don't why bother posting in these threads? Your watered down trash posts aren't wanted here.
On January 22 2016 15:54 Nomzter wrote: So its a "personality" tournament? Why aren't Winter, Destiny, Day9 etc invited?
Is it? Or is it like the OP, based on wcs points and these are the best non Korean players? These players are pouring ridiculous amounts of effort into practicing LOTV and you guys have spent the entire thread trashing them. Why would any foreign player be motivated to play for such terrible fans? We need to start cultivating a positive atmosphere again.
Surprised to see that Koreans can receive invites to a WCS event, even if they are residents of participating countries. Weren't non-citizen players not allowed to participate in online qualifiers for Dreamhack? I feel like being able to invite those players to the tournament either violates that rule or just disregards through kind of a loophole. Are all Koreans allowed to participate in the qualifiers? If Korean residents in other countries aren't allowed to qualify online for an event, I don't think they should be able to be invited either.
On January 22 2016 15:47 Incognoto wrote: Intel Extreme Welfare!
I think I would rather see no Starcraft at all rather than this watered down, racist version.
Gotta agree. My outlook on SC2 fans definitely went down a notch. As a brood war contributor, not once have I ever let the status of the scene get to me. I've also watched the majority of SC2 tournaments and remained positive towards SC2 as a whole. Honestly, you guys who mock sentences or support the doom and gloom method suck. Find a way to start showing positive support, that's how things improve. Be constructive with every comment. Don't join the ranks of the rest of these downers. Bottom line, you can take my advice and add real contributions to the scene or become the social justice warrior that boycotted the game until you had nothing left. SC2 isn't dead in my eyes, but quality SC2 fans are.
Lol!
Blizzard has forced a ridiculously unfair set up on all Korean players, and we're not even supposed to call it out for being unfair?
these new rules are completely and totally unfair and shit for Korean players. i am sorry but i don't think that i could even force myself to be positive about something so disgusting.
i've never condoned the dedgaem circlejerk, but now all Korean players are effectively PROHIBITED from participating in GLOBAL events.
i still can hardly believe that they actually went through with that
IEM is not to blame for this. You're arguing in all the wrong places. You can still support foreign players competing here while protesting the decision to block Koreans. And if you don't want to watch foreigners compete, then don't why bother posting in these threads? Your watered down trash posts aren't wanted here.
The fact is that this is decision of Blizzard who consulted it with several foreigner team owners/leaders(e.g. CatZ). The fact is that Blizzard in the longterm don't know what they want(drastic changes each year).
Now the question is whether supporting foreign tournaments with Korean bans and giving negative feedback would change something. I think that it would signal that there are negative reactions but viewership stays the same(or is climbing). Therefore I am not supporting these tournaments unless there are actual top players. Because neither tournaments nor Blizzard won't know who is watching. When I give a negative feedback, they can think I was not watching(and others with negative attitude too) but the tournament still got pretty good numbers, so it's an OK solution for them.
On January 22 2016 15:54 Nomzter wrote: So its a "personality" tournament? Why aren't Winter, Destiny, Day9 etc invited?
Is it? Or is it like the OP, based on wcs points and these are the best non Korean players? These players are pouring ridiculous amounts of effort into practicing LOTV and you guys have spent the entire thread trashing them. Why would any foreign player be motivated to play for such terrible fans? We need to start cultivating a positive atmosphere again.
I agree with this.
As much as we hate the new system, we are also taking it a bit too far and bashing the foreigner players where they have 0 infrastructure support outside of the sponsor money that does not guarantee a good start in life after you finish your career as a progamer.
The one who is blamed here is Blizzard. Instead of pouring all this money on prize pools that could have been used to create even a small infrastructure for foreigners in general like hiring coaches, creating small teams, team houses... etc and allow outside sponsors to sponsor them like Acer / Razer / GigaByte or anything.
Blizzard kept throwing money on prize pools and allow Koreans who had an infrastructure that is over 10 years old to dominate.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull.
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull.
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack.
HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home".
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull.
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack.
HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home".
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull.
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack.
HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home".
Yes i'm quite aware of the current rules. My point is that this dude said that WCS had already had an impact on the SC2 he watched. However, not a single tournament so far has been affected. The first tournament to be affected by the new WCS system is yet to start, and consequently it is bullshit to say that he watched less SC2 because of WCS.
Neither Dreamhack or IEM have at this point been affected, quite simply because they haven't yet been played.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull.
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack.
HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home".
Yes i'm quite aware of the current rules. My point is that this dude said that WCS had already had an impact on the SC2 he watched. However, not a single tournament so far has been affected. The first tournament to be affected by the new WCS system is yet to start, and consequently it is bullshit to say that he watched less SC2 because of WCS.
Neither Dreamhack or IEM have at this point been affected, quite simply because they haven't yet been played.
There were regional qualification without a qualification for the Korean slots. Is a qualification part of the tournament? Not sure whether it qualifies or not :-)
On January 22 2016 15:54 Nomzter wrote: So its a "personality" tournament? Why aren't Winter, Destiny, Day9 etc invited?
Is it? Or is it like the OP, based on wcs points and these are the best non Korean players? These players are pouring ridiculous amounts of effort into practicing LOTV and you guys have spent the entire thread trashing them. Why would any foreign player be motivated to play for such terrible fans? We need to start cultivating a positive atmosphere again.
There is no such justification in being a fan of somebody. Fans go with the strong ones, not with the people who behave like "I'll train for WarCraft4 and you'll see my power" ROFL
Foreigners are nowhere near the level of the Koreans, and I love to see Korean SC. I know many people who have 15000 games and are still at diamond level, would you cheer for them than any progamer you know. Don't be ridiculous. The level of the foreign scene is declining and the esports fans don't want to watch cry babies and chobos.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull.
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack.
HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home".
Yes i'm quite aware of the current rules. My point is that this dude said that WCS had already had an impact on the SC2 he watched. However, not a single tournament so far has been affected. The first tournament to be affected by the new WCS system is yet to start, and consequently it is bullshit to say that he watched less SC2 because of WCS.
Neither Dreamhack or IEM have at this point been affected, quite simply because they haven't yet been played.
There were regional qualification without a qualification for the Korean slots. Is a qualification part of the tournament? Not sure whether it qualifies or not :-)
I think this is actually beside the point, but if you want to be nitpicking, none of the regional qualifiers that have been played have been affected by Koreans, because Koreans wasn't allowed to play in those qualifiers in the first place. The fact that Koreans all together didn't get to play didn't have an impact on a specific qualifier.
On January 22 2016 09:00 OveRtheStarS wrote: Definitely top 32 if you set your standards really low and forget Korea exists. I enjoy foreigners as much as the next person, but Polt and Hydra are basically being handed cakewalks based purely on geographical location.
You realize there is a very low probability that either of them win the whole thing.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull.
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack.
HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home".
Yes i'm quite aware of the current rules. My point is that this dude said that WCS had already had an impact on the SC2 he watched. However, not a single tournament so far has been affected. The first tournament to be affected by the new WCS system is yet to start, and consequently it is bullshit to say that he watched less SC2 because of WCS.
Neither Dreamhack or IEM have at this point been affected, quite simply because they haven't yet been played.
There were regional qualification without a qualification for the Korean slots. Is a qualification part of the tournament? Not sure whether it qualifies or not :-)
I think this is actually beside the point, but if you want to be nitpicking, none of the regional qualifiers that have been played have been affected by Koreans, because Koreans wasn't allowed to play in those qualifiers in the first place. The fact that Koreans all together didn't get to play didn't have an impact on a specific qualifier.
Not sure if I follow your logic. You asked for a tournament which was affected by new WCS rules. I gave you a part of a tournament that was affected by new WCS rules. And now you are talking about players not playing not affecting... dafuq? Maybe it's because it's Friday morning, but the fact is that there is 1 tournament right now affected by WCS rules that has been partially played.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull.
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack.
HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home".
Yes i'm quite aware of the current rules. My point is that this dude said that WCS had already had an impact on the SC2 he watched. However, not a single tournament so far has been affected. The first tournament to be affected by the new WCS system is yet to start, and consequently it is bullshit to say that he watched less SC2 because of WCS.
Neither Dreamhack or IEM have at this point been affected, quite simply because they haven't yet been played.
There were regional qualification without a qualification for the Korean slots. Is a qualification part of the tournament? Not sure whether it qualifies or not :-)
I think this is actually beside the point, but if you want to be nitpicking, none of the regional qualifiers that have been played have been affected by Koreans, because Koreans wasn't allowed to play in those qualifiers in the first place. The fact that Koreans all together didn't get to play didn't have an impact on a specific qualifier.
Not sure if I follow your logic. You asked for a tournament which was affected by new WCS rules. I gave you a part of a tournament that was affected by new WCS rules. And now you are talking about players not playing not affecting... dafuq? Maybe it's because it's Friday morning, but the fact is that there is 1 tournament right now affected by WCS rules that has been partially played.
Yes you are right. The qualificers as a whole has been affected by the lack of Koreans, but none of the qualifiers in specific were affected, because the Koreans might not have played in that specific qualifier regardless. It's like having 4 glasses of water and 1 glass of cola. If you remove the 1 glass of cola you might have changed the overall qualities of the liquid contained in your glasses, but you didn't change the qualities of the water contained in any of your remaining 4 glasses of water.
EDIT:
By anyway, you are right that WCS have actually affected the scene. I was quite honestly not aware of the qualifiers. That being said, the influence so far IS limited to said qualifiers, which might not even have been broadcasted.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull.
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack.
HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home".
Yes i'm quite aware of the current rules. My point is that this dude said that WCS had already had an impact on the SC2 he watched. However, not a single tournament so far has been affected. The first tournament to be affected by the new WCS system is yet to start, and consequently it is bullshit to say that he watched less SC2 because of WCS.
Neither Dreamhack or IEM have at this point been affected, quite simply because they haven't yet been played.
There were regional qualification without a qualification for the Korean slots. Is a qualification part of the tournament? Not sure whether it qualifies or not :-)
I think this is actually beside the point, but if you want to be nitpicking, none of the regional qualifiers that have been played have been affected by Koreans, because Koreans wasn't allowed to play in those qualifiers in the first place. The fact that Koreans all together didn't get to play didn't have an impact on a specific qualifier.
Not sure if I follow your logic. You asked for a tournament which was affected by new WCS rules. I gave you a part of a tournament that was affected by new WCS rules. And now you are talking about players not playing not affecting... dafuq? Maybe it's because it's Friday morning, but the fact is that there is 1 tournament right now affected by WCS rules that has been partially played.
Yes you are right. The qualificers as a whole has been affected by the lack of Koreans, but none of the qualifiers in specific were affected, because the Koreans might not have played in that specific qualifier regardless. It's like having 4 glasses of water and 1 glass of cola. If you remove the 1 glass of cola you might have changed the overall qualities of the liquid contained in your glasses, but you didn't change the qualities of the water contained in any of your remaining 4 glasses of water.
Oh, you are going this way. OK, now I see what you mean.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull.
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack.
HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home".
Yes i'm quite aware of the current rules. My point is that this dude said that WCS had already had an impact on the SC2 he watched. However, not a single tournament so far has been affected. The first tournament to be affected by the new WCS system is yet to start, and consequently it is bullshit to say that he watched less SC2 because of WCS.
Neither Dreamhack or IEM have at this point been affected, quite simply because they haven't yet been played.
There were regional qualification without a qualification for the Korean slots. Is a qualification part of the tournament? Not sure whether it qualifies or not :-)
I think this is actually beside the point, but if you want to be nitpicking, none of the regional qualifiers that have been played have been affected by Koreans, because Koreans wasn't allowed to play in those qualifiers in the first place. The fact that Koreans all together didn't get to play didn't have an impact on a specific qualifier.
Not sure if I follow your logic. You asked for a tournament which was affected by new WCS rules. I gave you a part of a tournament that was affected by new WCS rules. And now you are talking about players not playing not affecting... dafuq? Maybe it's because it's Friday morning, but the fact is that there is 1 tournament right now affected by WCS rules that has been partially played.
Yes you are right. The qualificers as a whole has been affected by the lack of Koreans, but none of the qualifiers in specific were affected, because the Koreans might not have played in that specific qualifier regardless. It's like having 4 glasses of water and 1 glass of cola. If you remove the 1 glass of cola you might have changed the overall qualities of the liquid contained in your glasses, but you didn't change the qualities of the water contained in any of your remaining 4 glasses of water.
EDIT:
But anyway, you are right that WCS have actually affected the scene. I was quite honestly not aware of the qualifiers. That being said, the influence so far IS limited to said qualifiers, which might not even have been broadcasted.
On January 22 2016 13:07 Necro)Phagist( wrote: I respect the people defending IEM and the Sc2 scene in general, we do need something positive to keep the scene going in these dark times.
But bottom line I haven't watched a single Sc2 game since this happened, this current system is nothing short of a very unfunny joke
Can you please remind me which tournaments so far that have been affected by the WCS change.
DreamHack, IEM, and Red Bull.
Are those tournaments that HAVE been affected, or WILL be affected? He stated that WCS had already had an influence on him watching SC2. However, according to Liquipedia Koreans such as: SoO, Fantasy, Innovation, Bomber, TY and Solar participated in the last IEM and Dreamhack.
HAVE been affected. Last year had different rules. Now the new rule is: "Koreans, go home".
Yes i'm quite aware of the current rules. My point is that this dude said that WCS had already had an impact on the SC2 he watched. However, not a single tournament so far has been affected. The first tournament to be affected by the new WCS system is yet to start, and consequently it is bullshit to say that he watched less SC2 because of WCS.
Neither Dreamhack or IEM have at this point been affected, quite simply because they haven't yet been played.
There were regional qualification without a qualification for the Korean slots. Is a qualification part of the tournament? Not sure whether it qualifies or not :-)
I think this is actually beside the point, but if you want to be nitpicking, none of the regional qualifiers that have been played have been affected by Koreans, because Koreans wasn't allowed to play in those qualifiers in the first place. The fact that Koreans all together didn't get to play didn't have an impact on a specific qualifier.
Not sure if I follow your logic. You asked for a tournament which was affected by new WCS rules. I gave you a part of a tournament that was affected by new WCS rules. And now you are talking about players not playing not affecting... dafuq? Maybe it's because it's Friday morning, but the fact is that there is 1 tournament right now affected by WCS rules that has been partially played.
Yes you are right. The qualificers as a whole has been affected by the lack of Koreans, but none of the qualifiers in specific were affected, because the Koreans might not have played in that specific qualifier regardless. It's like having 4 glasses of water and 1 glass of cola. If you remove the 1 glass of cola you might have changed the overall qualities of the liquid contained in your glasses, but you didn't change the qualities of the water contained in any of your remaining 4 glasses of water.
EDIT:
By anyway, you are right that WCS have actually affected the scene. I was quite honestly not aware of the qualifiers. That being said, the influence so far IS limited to said qualifiers, which might not even have been broadcasted.
For what it's worth, IEM KR / Asia qualifiers were always a pretty big deal for me, and were broadcast most of the time. In particular, Katowice ones were fully open to any region last year (and 2014 maybe? Not sure), and gave us some of the most stacked online events we've ever seen. IEM Qualifiers were often more enjoyable for me than the main events.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
On January 22 2016 10:56 Rehio wrote: I hate how this entire thread has turned into mocking a single sentence.
Yep - there is a lot of toxicity and entitlement in these forums.
Looking forward to seeing the games, especially Polt and Bunny.
Gotta agree. My outlook on SC2 fans definitely went down a notch. As a brood war contributor, not once have I ever let the status of the scene get to me. I've also watched the majority of SC2 tournaments and remained positive towards SC2 as a whole. Honestly, you guys who mock sentences or support the doom and gloom method suck. Find a way to start showing positive support, that's how things improve. Be constructive with every comment. Don't join the ranks of the rest of these downers. Bottom line, you can take my advice and add real contributions to the scene or become the social justice warrior that boycotted the game until you had nothing left. SC2 isn't dead in my eyes, but quality SC2 fans are.
I am the optimism pimp kneel before me. All you people that feel negative about things that upset you are bitches. Never show how upset you are and only be optimistic under the wing of the optimism pimp and things will definetly improve most certainly won't be just you lying to yourselves. Do as the pimp says with every comment. Don't succumb to the need of talking about what makes you upset, just pretend it's not a problem. You can pick the red pill and make constructive comments about how people who say they are upset are sad assholes or you can take the blue pill and die from ebola.
There is nothing wrong with saying you are upset. Hell if it's about viewership then that is constructive feedback - ME NO LIKE, ME NO WATCH I like watching korean scene more then foreigner scene I am going to watch both the IEM and Dramhack and the wcs when it starts running And I am going to ENJOY them. I know this because I like to watch starcraft. That doesn't mean I like the changes or that I will not complain about them. I was a 100% fine with WCS being locked for koreans. I am not fine with this because it screws korea. Korea isn't just part of the sc2 world or where the top players are. Korea has the most active( and wannabe) progamers compared to any other region. So anything that damages the koreans scene damages them. Progamers are being screw simply because of where they were born. This upsets me and I will express my opinion on it. If you are an optimist then more power to you, but you don't get to talk down to people who aren't.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
Imagine if La Liga was only for Spanish players Or serie a only for Italians Etc etc
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
Imagine if La Liga was only for Spanish players Or serie a only for Italians Etc etc
Nobody stops Koreans from participating in WCS. Polt and Hydra are doing it... They just have to live in the region.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
Imagine if La Liga was only for Spanish players Or serie a only for Italians Etc etc
Nobody stops Koreans from participating in WCS. Polt and Hydra are doing it... They just have to live in the region.
"The Region" aka "the entire world sans South Korea"
On January 22 2016 15:54 Nomzter wrote: So its a "personality" tournament? Why aren't Winter, Destiny, Day9 etc invited?
Is it? Or is it like the OP, based on wcs points and these are the best non Korean players? These players are pouring ridiculous amounts of effort into practicing LOTV and you guys have spent the entire thread trashing them. Why would any foreign player be motivated to play for such terrible fans? We need to start cultivating a positive atmosphere again.
Yeah i feel like you are right. Let´s just wait for this tournament and DH, maybe some people will be surprised by the games, maybe not. But very true, i wouldn´t be really happy to see such negativety as a foreigner, then again, they should probably avoid TL with the strong korean bias.
On January 22 2016 15:47 Incognoto wrote: Intel Extreme Welfare!
I think I would rather see no Starcraft at all rather than this watered down, racist version.
Gotta agree. My outlook on SC2 fans definitely went down a notch. As a brood war contributor, not once have I ever let the status of the scene get to me. I've also watched the majority of SC2 tournaments and remained positive towards SC2 as a whole. Honestly, you guys who mock sentences or support the doom and gloom method suck. Find a way to start showing positive support, that's how things improve. Be constructive with every comment. Don't join the ranks of the rest of these downers. Bottom line, you can take my advice and add real contributions to the scene or become the social justice warrior that boycotted the game until you had nothing left. SC2 isn't dead in my eyes, but quality SC2 fans are.
Lol!
Blizzard has forced a ridiculously unfair set up on all Korean players, and we're not even supposed to call it out for being unfair?
these new rules are completely and totally unfair and shit for Korean players. i am sorry but i don't think that i could even force myself to be positive about something so disgusting.
i've never condoned the dedgaem circlejerk, but now all Korean players are effectively PROHIBITED from participating in GLOBAL events.
i still can hardly believe that they actually went through with that
IEM is not to blame for this. You're arguing in all the wrong places. You can still support foreign players competing here while protesting the decision to block Koreans. And if you don't want to watch foreigners compete, then don't why bother posting in these threads? Your watered down trash posts aren't wanted here.
The fact is that this is decision of Blizzard who consulted it with several foreigner team owners/leaders(e.g. CatZ). The fact is that Blizzard in the longterm don't know what they want(drastic changes each year).
Just wanted to say that CatZ actually wanted the 2015 system back again, maybe with a regulation on the number of Korean players that can play in NA/EU, but he considered the 2015 system healthy. He certainly didn't want to lock them out of DH/IEM and his biggest change would've been to make the ladder meaningful and incorporate it into the WCS system.
I think you are pointing in the wrong direction. We also know that TB also spoke to them, but was completely ignored, so I'm not sure who's feedback they took, because all the pros seemed to be surprised about this change.
On January 22 2016 15:47 Incognoto wrote: Intel Extreme Welfare!
I think I would rather see no Starcraft at all rather than this watered down, racist version.
Gotta agree. My outlook on SC2 fans definitely went down a notch. As a brood war contributor, not once have I ever let the status of the scene get to me. I've also watched the majority of SC2 tournaments and remained positive towards SC2 as a whole. Honestly, you guys who mock sentences or support the doom and gloom method suck. Find a way to start showing positive support, that's how things improve. Be constructive with every comment. Don't join the ranks of the rest of these downers. Bottom line, you can take my advice and add real contributions to the scene or become the social justice warrior that boycotted the game until you had nothing left. SC2 isn't dead in my eyes, but quality SC2 fans are.
Lol!
Blizzard has forced a ridiculously unfair set up on all Korean players, and we're not even supposed to call it out for being unfair?
these new rules are completely and totally unfair and shit for Korean players. i am sorry but i don't think that i could even force myself to be positive about something so disgusting.
i've never condoned the dedgaem circlejerk, but now all Korean players are effectively PROHIBITED from participating in GLOBAL events.
i still can hardly believe that they actually went through with that
IEM is not to blame for this. You're arguing in all the wrong places. You can still support foreign players competing here while protesting the decision to block Koreans. And if you don't want to watch foreigners compete, then don't why bother posting in these threads? Your watered down trash posts aren't wanted here.
The fact is that this is decision of Blizzard who consulted it with several foreigner team owners/leaders(e.g. CatZ). The fact is that Blizzard in the longterm don't know what they want(drastic changes each year).
Just wanted to say that CatZ actually wanted the 2015 system back again, maybe with a regulation on the number of Korean players that can play in NA/EU, but he considered the 2015 system healthy. He certainly didn't want to lock them out of DH/IEM and his biggest change would've been to make the ladder meaningful and incorporate it into the WCS system.
I think you are pointing in the wrong direction. We also know that TB also spoke to them, but was completely ignored, so I'm not sure who's feedback they took, because all the pros seemed to be surprised about this change.
They took ESL and Dreamhack feedback. Only thing that makes sense.
On January 22 2016 15:47 Incognoto wrote: Intel Extreme Welfare!
I think I would rather see no Starcraft at all rather than this watered down, racist version.
Gotta agree. My outlook on SC2 fans definitely went down a notch. As a brood war contributor, not once have I ever let the status of the scene get to me. I've also watched the majority of SC2 tournaments and remained positive towards SC2 as a whole. Honestly, you guys who mock sentences or support the doom and gloom method suck. Find a way to start showing positive support, that's how things improve. Be constructive with every comment. Don't join the ranks of the rest of these downers. Bottom line, you can take my advice and add real contributions to the scene or become the social justice warrior that boycotted the game until you had nothing left. SC2 isn't dead in my eyes, but quality SC2 fans are.
Lol!
Blizzard has forced a ridiculously unfair set up on all Korean players, and we're not even supposed to call it out for being unfair?
these new rules are completely and totally unfair and shit for Korean players. i am sorry but i don't think that i could even force myself to be positive about something so disgusting.
i've never condoned the dedgaem circlejerk, but now all Korean players are effectively PROHIBITED from participating in GLOBAL events.
i still can hardly believe that they actually went through with that
IEM is not to blame for this. You're arguing in all the wrong places. You can still support foreign players competing here while protesting the decision to block Koreans. And if you don't want to watch foreigners compete, then don't why bother posting in these threads? Your watered down trash posts aren't wanted here.
The fact is that this is decision of Blizzard who consulted it with several foreigner team owners/leaders(e.g. CatZ). The fact is that Blizzard in the longterm don't know what they want(drastic changes each year).
Just wanted to say that CatZ actually wanted the 2015 system back again, maybe with a regulation on the number of Korean players that can play in NA/EU, but he considered the 2015 system healthy. He certainly didn't want to lock them out of DH/IEM and his biggest change would've been to make the ladder meaningful and incorporate it into the WCS system.
I think you are pointing in the wrong direction. We also know that TB also spoke to them, but was completely ignored, so I'm not sure who's feedback they took, because all the pros seemed to be surprised about this change.
They took ESL and Dreamhack feedback. Only thing that makes sense.
Well, their hand was a bit forced because ESL dropped the separate studio format.
What they should implement imo, like I said before, is to make sure there are at least some truly global lans besides Blizzcon.
The initial eight players are receiving their invites based on their standings in the 2015 WCS ranking
That's just absurd. You completely revamp the entire WCS system and have everyone start from scratch - but you seed players based on WCS 2015 rankings? I don't even know who comes up with these rules.
The initial eight players are receiving their invites based on their standings in the 2015 WCS ranking
That's just absurd. You completely revamp the entire WCS system and have everyone start from scratch - but you seed players based on WCS 2015 rankings? I don't even know who comes up with these rules.
It's even more stupid because it's a new game too ~_~.
To think that this is how DH and IEM player lists will look from now on... T.T Dunno if I wanna laugh or cry about the ridiculous "best 32 players in the worls" statement. I usually try to be optimistic and stay away from making negative posts, but damn... this is really rough My only consolation is that Hydra chose not to return to Korea. HAIL HYDRA! :D
This sure is very disappointing (even more with this PR statement), but as some say, bear with the bright side: the games will most likely be very nice to watch anyway, so just enjoy all of it! Cheers for Korean in the couple GSL and SSL they have (and in PL also), and shout out for all the foreigners the rest of the time.
We are all hoping for a better system (except for the ones profiting from this one, but unfortunately business is still business), so we'll see what happens. But this is certainly not the place to be angry for change.
GSL code A: the 60 best koreans fight to death, fail and you have a two month break, 10k viewers
DH leipzig: some euromericans play kr-free games, 900 viewers
if this carries over to other tournaments, blizzard has basically succeeded very well with making things as hard as possible for koreans and ruining things for the viewers at the same time
On January 22 2016 08:32 Horiken wrote: Idk why you want to watch Korean in foreign tournament so much. If you want to watch Korean, watch Korean tournament. You can do this everyday when proleague starts. They prepare for Korean tournament far better than foreign tournament. You can watch better quality game than foreign tournament.
You should learn these Korean dominated scene is stupid and bad for this game. Blizzard is trying to change this. SC2 is the only community that likes Korean dominated scene. Learn how LoL community don't like Korean domination and their love for local team.
There is something too this. Watching hots last blizzcon, it was crazy how much hype there was for the NA teams over any Asian team, especially DK.
Though I'll never understand it. Just because the local team is from your respective country, doesn't seem like a good reason to root for them. I mean i personally know both Korean players and Foreigners equally, that is to say not at all. So i might as well root for the players i think are more deserving based on their play.
The foreign scene does need to grow, for Sc2 to revive a bit. Though with this system, its going to look stupid when the all the foreigners who won all these championships through out the year, get wrecked at blizzcon.
On January 22 2016 08:32 Horiken wrote: Idk why you want to watch Korean in foreign tournament so much. If you want to watch Korean, watch Korean tournament. You can do this everyday when proleague starts. They prepare for Korean tournament far better than foreign tournament. You can watch better quality game than foreign tournament.
You should learn these Korean dominated scene is stupid and bad for this game. Blizzard is trying to change this. SC2 is the only community that likes Korean dominated scene. Learn how LoL community don't like Korean domination and their love for local team.
There is something too this. Watching hots last blizzcon, it was crazy how much hype there was for the NA teams over any Asian team, especially DK.
Though I'll never understand it. Just because the local team is from your respective country, doesn't seem like a good reason to root for them. I mean i personally know both Korean players and Foreigners equally, that is to say not at all. So i might as well root for the players i think are more deserving based on their play.
The foreign scene does need to grow, for Sc2 to revive a bit. Though with this system, its going to look stupid when the all the foreigners who won all these championships through out the year, get wrecked at blizzcon.
I agree, such matches create an insane hype if an NA team faces an Asian team. (I would disagree that it happens otherwise. HotS was pretty much non-existent throughout 2015 until Blizzcon happened, imo) And that's the problem with the new format in SC2: Such hype matches are going to happen in (probably) one tournament throughout the entirety of 2016.
On January 22 2016 08:32 Horiken wrote: Idk why you want to watch Korean in foreign tournament so much. If you want to watch Korean, watch Korean tournament. You can do this everyday when proleague starts. They prepare for Korean tournament far better than foreign tournament. You can watch better quality game than foreign tournament.
You should learn these Korean dominated scene is stupid and bad for this game. Blizzard is trying to change this. SC2 is the only community that likes Korean dominated scene. Learn how LoL community don't like Korean domination and their love for local team.
I just want to point out that watching Korean tournaments live and being able to write in LR and being able to not read spoilers on TL counts. And Korean tournaments have bad air time for EU and even worse for NA. So many people are actually happy that they can wathc a korean live and don't risk a job for it.
Also, for some of some who travel to tournaments(well traveled, no reason to go there anymore) - it is much easier to see top Korean players live in local tournaments than travel to Korea. Also it's cheaper.
So, how about this?
Edit> Obviously it was much easier, now I will have IEM without herO or Taeja. Great.
On January 22 2016 21:13 neptunusfisk wrote: on air right now:
GSL code A: the 60 best koreans fight to death, fail and you have a two month break, 10k viewers
DH leipzig: some euromericans play kr-free games, 900 viewers
if this carries over to other tournaments, blizzard has basically succeeded very well with making things as hard as possible for koreans and ruining things for the viewers at the same time
dreamhack stream starts after gsl code A is over. 10k viewers for the first group stages. wooops.
Think I'll be fine so long as the foreigners aren't so hyped up at Blizzcon. Dreamhack? IEM? These won't be a legit opportunity for a progamer to prove him/herself anymore. Only Blizzcon, but is it really possible, when foreigners haven't been competing with Koreans for most of the year? Right now, a foreign protoss player just lost 12 proves to a measly hellion drop, (DK: adept nerf canceled Terran op) while Classic and Seed wipes the floor with Terrans using mass adept
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
On January 22 2016 21:13 neptunusfisk wrote: on air right now:
GSL code A: the 60 best koreans fight to death, fail and you have a two month break, 10k viewers
DH leipzig: some euromericans play kr-free games, 900 viewers
if this carries over to other tournaments, blizzard has basically succeeded very well with making things as hard as possible for koreans and ruining things for the viewers at the same time
dreamhack stream starts after gsl code A is over. 10k viewers for the first group stages. wooops.
don't worry, the viewers will drop off when firecake starts playing
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
Imagine if at the Australian Open right now only Australian players would be allowed to play. Or if they forbade Djokovic/Federer/Murray/Wawrinka/Nadal to participate because they are too good and their dominance hindered the development of domestic heroes. (which, factually, even happens. The young players right now are horrible because Djokovic/Federer/Nadal/Murray dominated the scene for such a long time) Nobody considers blocking Djokovic/Federer/Murray/Nadal from these tournaments. Guess why. My assumption: No one would give a fuck about the tournament.
They are still excluded. To refer to the example I brought up before: Imagine if Federer/Djokovic/Murray/Nadal required permanent residency in Australia to play there.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. does it matter? it's still bad reasoning. you failed at mirroring the situation, thus rendering the argument pointless 2. yes it is, by any sensible reading of the rules. the koreans playing are living in america 3. i don't want to watch dreamhack, that's the whole point
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. does it matter? it's still bad reasoning. you failed at mirroring the situation, thus rendering the argument pointless 2. yes it is, by any sensible reading of the rules. the koreans playing are living in america 3. i don't want to watch dreamhack, that's the whole point
They are still excluded. To refer to the example I brought up before: Imagine if Federer/Djokovic/Murray/Nadal required permanent residency in Australia to play there.
When we have the tennis infrastructure and money, then we can compare things. That is why I don't like comparing real life sports with SC2. The only reason I mentioned football above is because someone used a dumb analogy and I found it funny. The foreign scene needs a boost and I can't see anything wrong(or racist) with the current WCS rules. All of the good korean SC2 players that meet the requirements are invited. This is what I have to say.
OMFG stop using football as an analogy. Football has national leagues. We. Do. Not. Have. National. Leagues. What we have is a series of tournaments, that are restricted to the best players.
WCS tournaments are NOT national leagues neither a national league. If you want to use a football analogy - that's like banning last world champions from the Olympic Games because that wouldn't be fair to the rest of the world. (lets pretend that Olympic football isn't fucked up by age restriction and usually date restriction)
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. does it matter? it's still bad reasoning. you failed at mirroring the situation, thus rendering the argument pointless 2. yes it is, by any sensible reading of the rules. the koreans playing are living in america 3. i don't want to watch dreamhack, that's the whole point
They are still excluded. To refer to the example I brought up before: Imagine if Federer/Djokovic/Murray/Nadal required permanent residency in Australia to play there.
When we have the tennis infrastructure and money, then we can compare things. That is why I don't like comparing real life sports with SC2. The only reason I mentioned football above is because someone used a dumb analogy and I found it funny. The foreign scene needs a boost and I can't see anything wrong(or racist) with the current WCS rules. All of the good korean SC2 players that meet the requirements are invited. This is what I have to say.
Yes, but if that does mean that we are hurting Korean scene by boosting Foreigner scene, that's bad. It's like saying that I have no kidney at all and you have 2, how about you give me one so we both live and you cannot say no.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. does it matter? it's still bad reasoning. you failed at mirroring the situation, thus rendering the argument pointless 2. yes it is, by any sensible reading of the rules. the koreans playing are living in america 3. i don't want to watch dreamhack, that's the whole point
1.That was my goal.
To make it clear: You took a good argument, copied the form and applied to another situation where the argument didn't make sense. That's super bad reasoning from YOU.
On January 22 2016 03:58 Bagration wrote: Not the best 32, but then again college sports in the US are immensely popular, when people know that the pro leagues are significantly better.
If these guys can give us entertaining close games, show that personality and creativity, it might not be too bad. Sometimes close entertaining games are better for a tournament than unleashing a couple of world class Koreans and getting a one-sided stomp and no surprises to who ends up lifting the trophy at the end.
interesting point, yet there is a college archon tournament coming up anyways... how many college leagues does the game need?
On January 22 2016 08:32 Horiken wrote: Idk why you want to watch Korean in foreign tournament so much. If you want to watch Korean, watch Korean tournament. You can do this everyday when proleague starts. They prepare for Korean tournament far better than foreign tournament. You can watch better quality game than foreign tournament.
You should learn these Korean dominated scene is stupid and bad for this game. Blizzard is trying to change this. SC2 is the only community that likes Korean dominated scene. Learn how LoL community don't like Korean domination and their love for local team.
There is something too this. Watching hots last blizzcon, it was crazy how much hype there was for the NA teams over any Asian team, especially DK.
Though I'll never understand it. Just because the local team is from your respective country, doesn't seem like a good reason to root for them. I mean i personally know both Korean players and Foreigners equally, that is to say not at all. So i might as well root for the players i think are more deserving based on their play.
The foreign scene does need to grow, for Sc2 to revive a bit. Though with this system, its going to look stupid when the all the foreigners who won all these championships through out the year, get wrecked at blizzcon.
In HotS NA and EU team actually compete so hype for local talents is easier to understand. In SC2 its quite different, its shameful to advertise a global tournament and exclude the country with the best players.
The promo is disrespectful with the korean players.
"You should learn these Korean dominated scene is stupid and bad for this game" "SC2 is the only community that likes Korean dominated scene" This doesn't make sense: if the community likes korean domination it shoudn't be bad for the game. Logic please. I understand that a good chunk of the community dislikes the domination, and its indeed bad for the game on the long run. But imo its still wrong to exclude them and shamefully pretend they don't exist in the promo.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. does it matter? it's still bad reasoning. you failed at mirroring the situation, thus rendering the argument pointless 2. yes it is, by any sensible reading of the rules. the koreans playing are living in america 3. i don't want to watch dreamhack, that's the whole point
1.That was my goal.
To make it clear: You took a good argument, copied the form and applied to another situation where the argument didn't make sense. That's super bad reasoning from YOU.
Lol, he used fucking football leagues as an analogy to SC2... Then said that because some tournament has "world" in its name, this means it should represent the world (or at least his understanding of it). So that is the good argument that I ruined ? Well, I'm sorry.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
you could call it that, or you could think they'd appreciate an honest feedback of the community. it is a hot topic still. why are so many people annoyed of the debate and try to shut down any further discussion about it?
On January 22 2016 15:47 Incognoto wrote: Intel Extreme Welfare!
I think I would rather see no Starcraft at all rather than this watered down, racist version.
Gotta agree. My outlook on SC2 fans definitely went down a notch. As a brood war contributor, not once have I ever let the status of the scene get to me. I've also watched the majority of SC2 tournaments and remained positive towards SC2 as a whole. Honestly, you guys who mock sentences or support the doom and gloom method suck. Find a way to start showing positive support, that's how things improve. Be constructive with every comment. Don't join the ranks of the rest of these downers. Bottom line, you can take my advice and add real contributions to the scene or become the social justice warrior that boycotted the game until you had nothing left. SC2 isn't dead in my eyes, but quality SC2 fans are.
Lol!
Blizzard has forced a ridiculously unfair set up on all Korean players, and we're not even supposed to call it out for being unfair?
these new rules are completely and totally unfair and shit for Korean players. i am sorry but i don't think that i could even force myself to be positive about something so disgusting.
i've never condoned the dedgaem circlejerk, but now all Korean players are effectively PROHIBITED from participating in GLOBAL events.
i still can hardly believe that they actually went through with that
IEM is not to blame for this. You're arguing in all the wrong places. You can still support foreign players competing here while protesting the decision to block Koreans. And if you don't want to watch foreigners compete, then don't why bother posting in these threads? Your watered down trash posts aren't wanted here.
I like what you said here, that sums up my feelings. I don't like the new system and of course i will still watch
Starcraft content and tournaments are great fun, and I love people invest the money and time to put them on. I just don't agree with the direction the leaders are taking it.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. An argument cannot be conducted by only one person. 2. Korea IS excluded (Koreans that play there are representative of America since they have american athletes visa and american residency). 3. Well if this is whinning then everything that goes contrary to a beliefe/opinion is whining.
But hey. We can agree on that we don't agree together if you prefer.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
Imagine if La Liga was only for Spanish players Or serie a only for Italians Etc etc
or more precisely to the topic, imagine the soccer world cup without Brazil
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. An argument cannot be conducted by only one person.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. An argument cannot be conducted by only one person.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. does it matter? it's still bad reasoning. you failed at mirroring the situation, thus rendering the argument pointless 2. yes it is, by any sensible reading of the rules. the koreans playing are living in america 3. i don't want to watch dreamhack, that's the whole point
They are still excluded. To refer to the example I brought up before: Imagine if Federer/Djokovic/Murray/Nadal required permanent residency in Australia to play there.
When we have the tennis infrastructure and money, then we can compare things. That is why I don't like comparing real life sports with SC2. The only reason I mentioned football above is because someone used a dumb analogy and I found it funny. The foreign scene needs a boost and I can't see anything wrong(or racist) with the current WCS rules. All of the good korean SC2 players that meet the requirements are invited. This is what I have to say.
That's why the comparison with tennis is quite good: Tennis had huge restrictions until 1968 as well. No professional players were allowed to participate in any Grand Slam Tournament. In 1968 they dropped these restrictions and that's basically when Tennis got its infrastructure, its money and its popularity.
Blizzard tries to do it the other way round and I don't know of a single tournament based individual sports where this has worked out.
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. does it matter? it's still bad reasoning. you failed at mirroring the situation, thus rendering the argument pointless 2. yes it is, by any sensible reading of the rules. the koreans playing are living in america 3. i don't want to watch dreamhack, that's the whole point
They are still excluded. To refer to the example I brought up before: Imagine if Federer/Djokovic/Murray/Nadal required permanent residency in Australia to play there.
When we have the tennis infrastructure and money, then we can compare things. That is why I don't like comparing real life sports with SC2. The only reason I mentioned football above is because someone used a dumb analogy and I found it funny. The foreign scene needs a boost and I can't see anything wrong(or racist) with the current WCS rules. All of the good korean SC2 players that meet the requirements are invited. This is what I have to say.
Yeah the good Korean players that also meet the requirements! E.g)
See! So many. If you are saying Hydra - Polt is good, I guess we have different standards
On January 22 2016 04:00 shid0x wrote: Yup keep complaining, nothing's gonna change until 2017. And maybe, just maybe if you keep bitching all year long you won't even have IEM events next year : PROBLEM SOLVED.
Seriously are you just gonna be crybabies the WHOLE FUCKING YEAR ? Enjoy what you have, let's try to make another alternative together when the time comes. This time isn't now.
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. does it matter? it's still bad reasoning. you failed at mirroring the situation, thus rendering the argument pointless 2. yes it is, by any sensible reading of the rules. the koreans playing are living in america 3. i don't want to watch dreamhack, that's the whole point
They are still excluded. To refer to the example I brought up before: Imagine if Federer/Djokovic/Murray/Nadal required permanent residency in Australia to play there.
When we have the tennis infrastructure and money, then we can compare things. That is why I don't like comparing real life sports with SC2. The only reason I mentioned football above is because someone used a dumb analogy and I found it funny. The foreign scene needs a boost and I can't see anything wrong(or racist) with the current WCS rules. All of the good korean SC2 players that meet the requirements are invited. This is what I have to say.
That's why the comparison with tennis is quite good: Tennis had huge restrictions until 1968 as well. No professional players were allowed to participate in any Grand Slam Tournament. In 1968 they dropped these restrictions and that's basically when Tennis got its infrastructure, its money and its popularity.
Blizzard tries to do it the other way round and I don't know of a single tournament based individual sports where this has worked out.
Interesting analogy I've seen mentioned before a few times. What was the rationale behind the Grand Slam restrictions pre-1968? To protect youth players? Some organisational schism? Or just a random historical quirk?
BTW tennis also has a nationality-based team tournament. It's called the Davis Cup. Doesn't seem to draw as many crowds and interest as Grand Slams and World Tour. The top players even prefer not to join.
Why can't e-sports be more like tennis? Fans just loving the game at its highest level, and not rooting for players based on nationality or personality (this happens a lot in football, which is where its ugly side rears). For example, I love Federer for the way he plays - so elegant, so effortlessly - and so do the majority of tennis fans (whereas drama-queens like Novak Djokovic and Nick Kyrgios tend to turn off fans).
I see your point. Then i'll enjoy GSL,SSL and SPL. I'll skip DH and IEM and everything that just say "BEST players in the WORLD".
Hope Rolland Garros will say Nadal and Jokovitch are too strong and say : "nope to those country". Let's have the best at Rolland Garros.
(Oh and for European football, new tournament ! England, Spain and Italy are all in their own league !)
Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. does it matter? it's still bad reasoning. you failed at mirroring the situation, thus rendering the argument pointless 2. yes it is, by any sensible reading of the rules. the koreans playing are living in america 3. i don't want to watch dreamhack, that's the whole point
They are still excluded. To refer to the example I brought up before: Imagine if Federer/Djokovic/Murray/Nadal required permanent residency in Australia to play there.
When we have the tennis infrastructure and money, then we can compare things. That is why I don't like comparing real life sports with SC2. The only reason I mentioned football above is because someone used a dumb analogy and I found it funny. The foreign scene needs a boost and I can't see anything wrong(or racist) with the current WCS rules. All of the good korean SC2 players that meet the requirements are invited. This is what I have to say.
That's why the comparison with tennis is quite good: Tennis had huge restrictions until 1968 as well. No professional players were allowed to participate in any Grand Slam Tournament. In 1968 they dropped these restrictions and that's basically when Tennis got its infrastructure, its money and its popularity.
Blizzard tries to do it the other way round and I don't know of a single tournament based individual sports where this has worked out.
Interesting analogy I've seen mentioned before a few times. What was the rationale behind the Grand Slam restrictions pre-1968? To protect youth players? Some organisational schism? Or just a random historical quirk?
BTW tennis also has a nationality-based team tournament. It's called the Davis Cup. Doesn't seem to draw as many crowds and interest as Grand Slams and World Tour. The top players even prefer not to join.
Why can't e-sports be more like tennis? Fans just loving the game at its highest level, and not rooting for players based on nationality or personality (this happens a lot in football, which is where its ugly side rears). For example, I love Federer for the way he plays - so elegant, so effortlessly - and so do the majority of tennis fans (whereas drama-queens like Novak Djokovic and Nick Kyrgios tend to turn off fans).
I don't know why they were banned, tbh. Guess it was a combination of all of those points. Some historical quirk, some organisational shit going on and of course the domestic heroes were protected by this. If that was the intention... no idea, but the tournaments consisted mostly of domestic players (Although of course other players won those tournaments as well. Rod Laver for example. Same as Polt/Hyda will win quite a few tournaments this year)
And I agree that tennis as a prototype would be the perfect way to organize SC2. I'm absolutely in favour of domestic tournaments. But these domestic tournaments have to be domestic, not everyone beside the Koreans. Some National Championships into European/NA Championships into World Championships would be totally fine, in my opinion. I doubt that anyone would argue that Koreans should not be banned from those tournaments. Same as in tennis we got smaller tournaments to support less known players (and lets face it, they are mostly not able to gain a living out of tennis neither.) and the big international tournaments for the best competition out there.
On January 22 2016 18:50 Pr0wler wrote: [quote] Hahah imagine if the CL was only for european teams. And the English premier league for ONLY English teams. Not even scotish. Or if Seria A allowed only italian teams... What a disgrace ! Or even worse... Imagine if you had a limit on foreign players in your team. Horror !
This whining is just the funniest thing ever.
This Is called WORLD though. I fail to see world . Or koreans don't live in the world région ?
Is CL CHAMPIONS LEAGUES ? If so it's not a WORLD league. ENGLISH PREMIER League is for only ENGLISH teams. yes.
So Intel extreme masters WORLD championship ? Hum...
Well, "Champion's league" doesn't consist of only champions too. Tournament organizers are free to market their tournament in a way they find the best. And btw, in case you missed it, koreans will play in IEM WORLD championshit. But actually you are right. If it's WORLD championship, ESL should invite a representative of every single nation in the world. Otherwise they will discriminate someone. Where are the Togolese ?
this is not a good argument
- there are 32 spots and more than 32 countries - it's not any country, it's the country that have the best players that's excluded here
1. It's his argument, not mine. 2. Korea is not excluded. 3. Have fun with the tournaments and stop whining.
1. does it matter? it's still bad reasoning. you failed at mirroring the situation, thus rendering the argument pointless 2. yes it is, by any sensible reading of the rules. the koreans playing are living in america 3. i don't want to watch dreamhack, that's the whole point
They are still excluded. To refer to the example I brought up before: Imagine if Federer/Djokovic/Murray/Nadal required permanent residency in Australia to play there.
When we have the tennis infrastructure and money, then we can compare things. That is why I don't like comparing real life sports with SC2. The only reason I mentioned football above is because someone used a dumb analogy and I found it funny. The foreign scene needs a boost and I can't see anything wrong(or racist) with the current WCS rules. All of the good korean SC2 players that meet the requirements are invited. This is what I have to say.
That's why the comparison with tennis is quite good: Tennis had huge restrictions until 1968 as well. No professional players were allowed to participate in any Grand Slam Tournament. In 1968 they dropped these restrictions and that's basically when Tennis got its infrastructure, its money and its popularity.
Blizzard tries to do it the other way round and I don't know of a single tournament based individual sports where this has worked out.
Interesting analogy I've seen mentioned before a few times. What was the rationale behind the Grand Slam restrictions pre-1968? To protect youth players? Some organisational schism? Or just a random historical quirk?
BTW tennis also has a nationality-based team tournament. It's called the Davis Cup. Doesn't seem to draw as many crowds and interest as Grand Slams and World Tour. The top players even prefer not to join.
Why can't e-sports be more like tennis? Fans just loving the game at its highest level, and not rooting for players based on nationality or personality (this happens a lot in football, which is where its ugly side rears). For example, I love Federer for the way he plays - so elegant, so effortlessly - and so do the majority of tennis fans (whereas drama-queens like Novak Djokovic and Nick Kyrgios tend to turn off fans).
I don't know why they were banned, tbh. Guess it was a combination of all of those points. Some historical quirk, some organisational shit going on and of course the domestic heroes were protected by this. If that was the intention... no idea, but the tournaments consisted mostly of domestic players (Although of course other players won those tournaments as well. Rod Laver for example. Same as Polt/Hyda will win quite a few tournaments this year)
And I agree that tennis as a prototype would be the perfect way to organize SC2. I'm absolutely in favour of domestic tournaments. But these domestic tournaments have to be domestic, not everyone beside the Koreans. Some National Championships into European/NA Championships into World Championships would be totally fine, in my opinion. I doubt that anyone would argue that Koreans should not be banned from those tournaments. Same as in tennis we got smaller tournaments to support less known players (and lets face it, they are mostly not able to gain a living out of tennis neither.) and the big international tournaments for the best competition out there.
Your model is much like WCS 2014 (where they had WCS NA, EU and Korea at regional level, and the top placing players moving on to the WCS Global).
I thought WCS Global was a great model, kind of like a Grand Slam. Have 16 players, start with group matches, stretch over 2 weekends, with some extra tweaks: - 8 top players from SSL and GSL - 4 top players from WCS EU-NA (combined EU and NA as one regional like in 2015) - 4 spots for winners of other premiers like IEM, DH, etc (maybe save 1 wild card from a special rookie online tourney open to all players who has never qualified for WCS/GSL/SSL)
Keeping the world and Koreans apart until Blizzcon is just terrible.
It doesn't mean this has to be the system forever. If it's a short term infusion to the foreign seen I don't see why that is bad. If it gets more foreign players dedicating full time and realizing there is a chance at some money hopefully the skill level and foreign depth can rise and after a year or two start mixing more for an overall more competitive scene.
Personally I thought some of the best SC2 moments came during the early MLG events that didn't have many if any Koreans. Once they started showing up it got lame knowing that the 4-6 Koreans would all just make the finals. It would be like allowing the best European Soccer clubs to come to America and play in the MLS.
I also don't understand on people insisting they won't watch. I like watching anytime the players involved are better than me and these players all are. I actually find foreign games much more fun as Koreans are typically so good and perfect they rarely make mistakes that open the door for more interesting games. It's the same reason why watching college sports can be more fun than watching pro sports at times. Is it not still fun to watch lower level soccer leagues instead of the World Cup? Local school sports/high school sports instead of pro? If you enjoy the game then watch and see where it goes. Otherwise the game simply dies. So maybe having a longer outlook instead of being short-sighted is important. None of this matters if the pro scene around the globe dies out then you'll have nothing to watch at all.
I find it funny how people argue that SC2 should be more like tennis. Do you really want the scene to look like high level tennis? In 2015 whenever Djokovic and Federer entered a tournament you pretty much knew how the finals will look like. Most of the time i actually skipped the entire tournament except the finals. Do you really want the SC2 scene to go into that direction? Now if you simply wanna see the best level of play, okay fine. Then why dont you just watch the personal streams of the best players in the world?
Funny side note to all the elitist "oh but only the best play in the world is worthy of my time"-people. If you truly wanted to see only, and really ONLY, the highest level of play, you would only watch the GSL finals, because only there the two best players in the hardest tournament of the world (according to tastosis: GSL) actually meet and play each other. Or are there different kinds of "best play in the world"
On January 25 2016 23:29 looken wrote: I find it funny how people argue that SC2 should be more like tennis. Do you really want the scene to look like high level tennis? In 2015 whenever Djokovic and Federer entered a tournament you pretty much knew how the finals will look like. Most of the time i actually skipped the entire tournament except the finals. Do you really want the SC2 scene to go into that direction? Now if you simply wanna see the best level of play, okay fine. Then why dont you just watch the personal streams of the best players in the world?
Funny side note to all the elitist "oh but only the best play in the world is worthy of my time"-people. If you truly wanted to see only, and really ONLY, the highest level of play, you would only watch the GSL finals, because only there the two best players in the hardest tournament of the world (according to tastosis: GSL) actually meet and play each other. Or are there different kinds of "best play in the world"
Firstly, there has been never such extreme domination in SC2 (the closest is perhaps Flash-Jaedong in BW, even then they were not sweeping all OSLs and MSLs in a row for 4-5 years).
Secondly, even if such domination exist, there's nothing wrong with it. Even if I was Asian and a Nishikori fan, I would rather tune in to Djokovic vs Nishikori in a Grand Slam than Nishikori vs some random Japanese dude in an ATP Japan Open (that Djokovic skipped). And for those who enjoy watching mediocre local favourites fighting each other, feel free to watch them in the earlier rounds of the Grand Slam.
I would argue that an open tournament has more diverse match-ups (hence more interesting for viewers). Low, mid and top players all get meet against each other. Whereas a closed tourney with the top players banned limits the match-ups only between low and mid players. So essentially those supporting closed tourneys want to see: (a) more low and mid match ups throughout the tourney (at the expense of low, mid and top match ups) and: (b) a finals between mid players (at the expense of a finals between two top players, or possibly even one top and one mid player). To me, such a preference just boggles my mind.
An open tournament might possibly have Nishikori meeting Djokovic and also random Japanese dude. But a closed tourney will only have the possibility of Nishikori meeting random Japanese dude. To me, my choice is quite clear.
On January 25 2016 23:29 looken wrote: I find it funny how people argue that SC2 should be more like tennis. Do you really want the scene to look like high level tennis? In 2015 whenever Djokovic and Federer entered a tournament you pretty much knew how the finals will look like. Most of the time i actually skipped the entire tournament except the finals. Do you really want the SC2 scene to go into that direction? Now if you simply wanna see the best level of play, okay fine. Then why dont you just watch the personal streams of the best players in the world?
Funny side note to all the elitist "oh but only the best play in the world is worthy of my time"-people. If you truly wanted to see only, and really ONLY, the highest level of play, you would only watch the GSL finals, because only there the two best players in the hardest tournament of the world (according to tastosis: GSL) actually meet and play each other. Or are there different kinds of "best play in the world"
Firstly, there has been never such extreme domination in SC2 (the closest is perhaps Flash-Jaedong in BW, even then they were not sweeping all OSLs and MSLs in a row for 4-5 years).
Secondly, even if such domination exist, there's nothing wrong with it. Even if I was Asian and a Nishikori fan, I would rather tune in to Djokovic vs Nishikori in a Grand Slam than Nishikori vs some random Japanese dude in an ATP Japan Open (that Djokovic skipped). And for those who enjoy watching mediocre local favourites fighting each other, feel free to watch them in the earlier rounds of the Grand Slam.
Sadly, no Nishikoris make it to the Grand Slam finals, not even close. And because of that, the Nishikoris dont even try no more, because it is futile, a waste of time, effort and most of all, money (please dont give me the passion and dedication argument here. if you cant buy food off of your job, you need to find another job. passion doesnt pay your rent...)
On January 26 2016 00:14 RKC wrote: I would argue that an open tournament has more diverse match-ups (hence more interesting for viewers). Low, mid and top players all get meet against each other. Whereas a closed tourney with the top players banned limits the match-ups only between low and mid players. So essentially those supporting closed tourneys want to see: (a) more low and mid match ups throughout the tourney (at the expense of low, mid and top match ups) and: (b) a finals between mid players (at the expense of a finals between two top players, or possibly even one top and one mid player). To me, such a preference just boggles my mind.
I'm sorry, but i dont really see how a tournament consisting mostly of Koreans offers more diversity. It is well known that for a long time, it was actually the foreigners that innovated the game. Koreans copied and then perfected their stiles. But make no mistake, most Koreans play either standard, or have a specific build prepared for their opponent (which only works in a GSL-like format). so i cant really support your point of "more diversity".
so essentially those supporting closed tourneys want a foreign scene, that actually deserves the name.
On January 26 2016 00:14 RKC wrote: An open tournament might possibly have Nishikori meeting Djokovic and also random Japanese dude. But a closed tourney will only have the possibility of Nishikori meeting random Japanese dude. To me, my choice is quite clear.
Again, i belive you are wrong and i dont understand how you dont realize your mistake. Look at the SC2 scene. The amount of foreign talent is dwindling. open tournaments will lead to the extinction of the foreign scene, so Nishikori meeting Djokovic anywhere at all is simply an illusion, because there wont be any Nishikoris left.
That being said, i understand your desire to see the best players compete, not just mid tier players. yet, you can still do that. just not at every single tournament. but there are still quite a few tournaments in Korea. so if the cost is that you dont get to see the best players at all the tournaments, but the benefit is that we get a strong and growing foreign scene i think the benefits outweigh the cost quite a bit.
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