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A big NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to changing game speed. i am a gold player and would hate a slower speed. You might as well make bronze be turn based then.
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On January 12 2016 13:14 bigbadgreen wrote:
You might as well make bronze be turn based then.
LOL... A turn based version of SC2 would be something. Hmmm... should I hit with this baneling now or should I wait the next turn... Let me think for a while...
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two different game speeds? gosh balance team consists of scrubs. david kim should get fired. these ideas are retarded.
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On January 12 2016 06:02 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them. cuz zerg eco is exponential and seeing an enemy drone scout as a zerg gives you almost as much info as drone scouting yourself - theres a reason nobody does it in high level zvz
Zerg economy being exponential has nothing to do with single drone, it just means that 1 drone is a lot less valuable than for other races.
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On January 12 2016 19:26 GreenHealing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 06:02 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them. cuz zerg eco is exponential and seeing an enemy drone scout as a zerg gives you almost as much info as drone scouting yourself - theres a reason nobody does it in high level zvz Zerg economy being exponential has nothing to do with single drone, it just means that 1 drone is a lot less valuable than for other races.
In zvz a drone scout puts you behind quite a bit early game.
100 minerals less in the early game is a lot in a mirror.
Zergling scout is early enough to tell what tech the opponent will possible go for.
You can hold any build with hatch first in zvz anyway on non 4 player maps.
It's just the 4 player maps that add that dumb randomness in the matchup.
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On January 12 2016 19:37 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 19:26 GreenHealing wrote:On January 12 2016 06:02 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them. cuz zerg eco is exponential and seeing an enemy drone scout as a zerg gives you almost as much info as drone scouting yourself - theres a reason nobody does it in high level zvz Zerg economy being exponential has nothing to do with single drone, it just means that 1 drone is a lot less valuable than for other races. In zvz a drone scout puts you behind quite a bit early game. 100 minerals less in the early game is a lot in a mirror. Zergling scout is early enough to tell what tech the opponent will possible go for. You can hold any build with hatch first in zvz anyway on non 4 player maps. It's just the 4 player maps that add that dumb randomness in the matchup.
Highly doubt, that any pro game has been lost because of 1 mining worker deficit. Hell, people even lose 10 workers mid game and still dont give a fuck.
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On January 12 2016 19:40 GreenHealing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 19:37 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On January 12 2016 19:26 GreenHealing wrote:On January 12 2016 06:02 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them. cuz zerg eco is exponential and seeing an enemy drone scout as a zerg gives you almost as much info as drone scouting yourself - theres a reason nobody does it in high level zvz Zerg economy being exponential has nothing to do with single drone, it just means that 1 drone is a lot less valuable than for other races. In zvz a drone scout puts you behind quite a bit early game. 100 minerals less in the early game is a lot in a mirror. Zergling scout is early enough to tell what tech the opponent will possible go for. You can hold any build with hatch first in zvz anyway on non 4 player maps. It's just the 4 player maps that add that dumb randomness in the matchup. Highly doubt, that any pro game has been lost because of 1 mining worker deficit. Hell, people even lose 10 workers mid game and still dont give a fuck.
I'm pretty sure people would take pro players word over yours, especially when that 100 mineral comes early in the game where it DOES make bit difference
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On January 12 2016 19:42 jinjin5000 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 19:40 GreenHealing wrote:On January 12 2016 19:37 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On January 12 2016 19:26 GreenHealing wrote:On January 12 2016 06:02 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them. cuz zerg eco is exponential and seeing an enemy drone scout as a zerg gives you almost as much info as drone scouting yourself - theres a reason nobody does it in high level zvz Zerg economy being exponential has nothing to do with single drone, it just means that 1 drone is a lot less valuable than for other races. In zvz a drone scout puts you behind quite a bit early game. 100 minerals less in the early game is a lot in a mirror. Zergling scout is early enough to tell what tech the opponent will possible go for. You can hold any build with hatch first in zvz anyway on non 4 player maps. It's just the 4 player maps that add that dumb randomness in the matchup. Highly doubt, that any pro game has been lost because of 1 mining worker deficit. Hell, people even lose 10 workers mid game and still dont give a fuck. I'm pretty sure people would take pro players word over yours, especially when that 100 mineral comes early in the game where it DOES make bit difference
It doesnt matter where the words come, people should evaluate what sounds likely. Also, pro gamers often talk bullshit.
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On January 12 2016 19:49 GreenHealing wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 19:42 jinjin5000 wrote:On January 12 2016 19:40 GreenHealing wrote:On January 12 2016 19:37 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:On January 12 2016 19:26 GreenHealing wrote:On January 12 2016 06:02 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them. cuz zerg eco is exponential and seeing an enemy drone scout as a zerg gives you almost as much info as drone scouting yourself - theres a reason nobody does it in high level zvz Zerg economy being exponential has nothing to do with single drone, it just means that 1 drone is a lot less valuable than for other races. In zvz a drone scout puts you behind quite a bit early game. 100 minerals less in the early game is a lot in a mirror. Zergling scout is early enough to tell what tech the opponent will possible go for. You can hold any build with hatch first in zvz anyway on non 4 player maps. It's just the 4 player maps that add that dumb randomness in the matchup. Highly doubt, that any pro game has been lost because of 1 mining worker deficit. Hell, people even lose 10 workers mid game and still dont give a fuck. I'm pretty sure people would take pro players word over yours, especially when that 100 mineral comes early in the game where it DOES make bit difference It doesnt matter where the words come, people should evaluate what sounds likely. Also, pro gamers often talk bullshit.
Play through a build sending 1 drone to a corner of your base and then play through it without doing so. You will notice that it's not insignificant at all. It can mean the difference of like 4 roaches for a given timing, which can mean the difference between defending and not defending. In a game about seconds, everything matters.
As for the "changes", this is stupid. "We will wait and see" "We will monitor the situation" "Maybe but maybe not". Why not just make changes and if it's a problem, revert them with a hotfix? What's with being so afraid of making changes? The team has been way too scared of making changes for the entire lifetime of Starcraft II. That ladder speed change would never work so it's not even worth discussing. Playing on Fast is so much easier that players would never be able to get over the gap from Gold to Platinum. I'd say that a Silver player playing on Fast would be approximately as good as a Platinum player playing on Faster, the difference would be way too massive.
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I'll say it again. DON'T NERF MSC PO ENERGY COST. But reduce the initial energy of msc to ZERO!
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On January 12 2016 06:02 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them. cuz zerg eco is exponential and seeing an enemy drone scout as a zerg gives you almost as much info as drone scouting yourself - theres a reason nobody does it in high level zvz
Thanks for posting scarlett.
Could you explain for a gold zerg what information you get by seeing the scout? That they go hatch first?
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Dear blizzard. i actually miss blink all in era. I would rather stop blink all ins all over again than beeing forced to stay in my base every tvp. Protoss can harass whit adeps so easy whit no risk. and when you clear it, THey have 3 bases.. and its not possible to punish it! Nothing really works. Late game are actually even worse than hots now. Because you cant snipe templars anymore lol.. emp? oh lets make some archons. tvp is horrible atm
Tvz: Ultralisk are to strong. Maraduers suck. Liberators is easy to avoid. Fungal + ultra.. cant even land snipe. AND if youre lucky and get 40 ghost, kill all ultras, Zerg remake them. and your ghost has 0 energy. and its gg..
Yet again, terrans are forced to go Marines tank medivac in all match ups.
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As a Terran main I feel frustrated with Starcraft 2 currently. I have not played since back in WoL and I have now climbed back up to diamond (Currently rank 7.) The game feels really fast paced which I enjoy but currently it feels very stale to play Terran Marine/Tank seems to be dominant in all match ups and I feel forced to play certain ways in certain match ups.
TvP : The main one everyone is complaining about currently. The Protoss has a lot of very high damage harass units which can deal incredible damage to your economy while being fairly cheap. Mainly the Warp Prism / Adept or Oracle I'm talking about here. This forces you to stay in your base to defend your workers and even if you wanted to move out and attack PO will shut down nearly all aggression. Before the Protoss reaches 3 saturated bases drops are impossible to do due to the MSC being able to run between mineral lines. I think aiming nerfs at Adepts or Warp Prism and PO is the correct way to balance up this match up.
I have however noticed I win more and more games in TvP now due to building excessive amounts of defense to stop the inevitable all in attempt and when the game enters late game it feels a lot better. Once you reach around 10 liberators the Protoss starts having serious issues. I however think more usage of the Tempest can off set the strength of the liberator. Since Protoss usually establishes a economy lead during the early game since Terran has to turtle up to survive I think it is feasible to say Protoss can counter late game Terran with the use of the Tempest.
TvZ : God this match up makes me want to rip my hair out. Either you kill the Zerg before 10 minutes or you go full sim city turtle mode and create a fortress of doom to survive. Ultralisks can be dealt with by Ghosts or Liberators. But the Liberator gets countered by the Viper while the Ghost requires high numbers and very good micro to save.
Early to mid game feels alright all though I am having some trouble with dealing with Roach/Ravager. But I think this is mostly due to a lack of APM on my part to be able to stutter step forward my bio while I pickup and move my tanks from the bile. I would like to see the bile standing out a bit more though as I sometimes miss a bile shot or two in the mess. I think a bile range reduction could balance them out a bit more although this would require maps being redesigned due to the liberator and I'm unsure if a change is even needed.
TvT : Now this match up I mostly enjoy although doom drops suck. Mech seems fairly good but it can be countered by switching towards air Terran. A buff to the Thor would make mech even better here which I would like to see even though I play Marine/Tank. Honestly I don't have a lot to say about TvT. Compared to PvP or ZvZ it feels like we don't really have anything to complain about.
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Is the perception that T > Z only caused by the three racks reaper build (with certain maps in particular) or is there more to it?
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On January 12 2016 06:02 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them. cuz zerg eco is exponential and seeing an enemy drone scout as a zerg gives you almost as much info as drone scouting yourself - theres a reason nobody does it in high level zvz
ZvZ is very volatile now and an early 1 drone scout is actually stronger with how the econ is changed. Because you start with 12 workers and cap at 16. People are going 17 hatch / overdroning to about 19 before transfering. By that time the drone is coming back. What you lose now is much less than before. Then you consider the value of having the information. Also, dealing with exponential curves, the higher overall worker count dilutes the cost, and larvae / map control put a cap on production so even in an ideal sense it is not actually such an exponential curve. Even if he does blindly open hatch, if you really are worried about the minerals, you know his gas timing so you adjust yours, you are fine.
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On January 13 2016 11:38 crazedrat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 06:02 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them. cuz zerg eco is exponential and seeing an enemy drone scout as a zerg gives you almost as much info as drone scouting yourself - theres a reason nobody does it in high level zvz ZvZ is very volatile now and an early 1 drone scout is actually stronger with how the econ is changed. Because you start with 12 workers and cap at 16. People are going 17 hatch / overdroning to about 19 before transfering. By that time the drone is coming back. What you lose now is much less than before. Then you consider the value of having the information. Also, dealing with exponential curves, the higher overall worker count dilutes the cost, and larvae / map control put a cap on production so even in an ideal sense it is not actually such an exponential curve. Even if he does blindly open hatch, if you really are worried about the minerals, you know his gas timing so you adjust yours, you are fine.
I like how you explain to a top-5 greatest foreigner how scouting works. Confidence. 
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I really like the idea of different speeds for lower leagues but I think it would be problematic going from fast to fastest when they rank up to platinum would be a big slap to the face.
Why not increase the speed with each league and hit the current game speed at diamond.
This allows the rare players in bronze to play a game and have more time to enjoy doing fun micro and those that improve have the challenge gradually increased. Playing someone a league higher on their game speed can also ease you into the change in speed ^^
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On January 13 2016 04:16 Empirimancer wrote:
Is the perception that T > Z only caused by the three racks reaper build (with certain maps in particular) or is there more to it?
3 rax reapers is pretty strong, but it is not viable on all maps. But even if the terran player plays a macro game from the start, it is hard for zergs to hold terran's aggression while teching to hive, mainly due to the queen nerf. If they don't tech, they'd lose anyway, and not teching does not help with the defense that much either.
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Slower game speed for lower league players feels off. I think if it were done, it would make sense to limit it to bronze-silver. Maybe give silver players the option to check/uncheck the game speed change - make it a preference, like a map preference where you get it if a matched player wants it too, but not necessarily every time. However it's implemented, something in the UI should say in big, bright letters what game speed you're on - both during find match and during the loading screen.
Sidebar: When we talk about hurdles to new players, no one should underestimate the impact of the UI... too much or too little info at the right/wrong time makes a big difference to new players.
A better alternative to game speed may be making all units last longer - like a universal damage nerf/hp buff/armor buff. I bet this would be a logistical nightmare but it may be worth it.
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EPT
)
I am now sad 
