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On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random
maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask?
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On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask?
That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings
And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot
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On January 10 2016 01:50 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 01:07 Ctone23 wrote:
Why not make unranked ladder for players with bronze to silver mmr play at a slighly lower game speed? I don't think Blizzard should slow down the ranked ladder, but I don't see an issue slowing down unranked a bit for the new players out there. Why? And at which speed is a ranked vs unranked match going to be played?
I think it would be better to have a "training ground" to avoid ranked vs unranked (assuming that will continue post ladder revamp). Maybe unranked vs ranked begins at gold league mmr? Unranked players with bronze or silver mmr are looped into the training grounds and is a separate ladder? Thinking out loud here..
Why? Quality of life improvement is at most what we're talking about. It's clear Blizzard is still thinking on the ladder revamp, so now is the time to make suggestions and discuss. The idea is to give players the option to play MP at a slightly lower speed, players who just completed the campaign, etc.. Just make it a another button on the ladder option, new players can still enter ranked if they want, or they can click to go into training.
tl;dr It would be nice to have an "official" option for new players to practice crisis management, macro/micro, to have a place where it's okay to be a noob practicing against other noobs.
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On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot
This is part of the game though, the randomess. Would it be awesome if blizzard fixed it? Yes. But right now this is hows it supposed to be.
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I can't play on anything but the normal game speed. If I came back to ladder and had to play games on slower speeds I don't think I could keep myself playing long enough to deal with it.
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On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot
How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them.
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I played coop on normal speed and it feels just sooo dumb. And I'm just gold.
The fast speed should be taken care of by letting go of "terrible terrible damage abilities" like with Oracles, Banelings, and Mines. I played waaaay too many matches where the game was decided in a split second, with no chance for comeback. Thus resulting in a very disappointing feeling.
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On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them.
it's not like there's limited ways to scout, it's just not standard in the way the race tends to play its strategies. 1 drone not mining for a full minute does actually matter.
if you did this as terran for say a widow mine drop build, your build would absolutely not be seemless, and it typically stalls the actual drop by more than 10 seconds. otherwise, you need to choose between having a lesser economy, being supply blocked, or having less units. the keyword is 'seemless', and you'll often see some pros not scout when they play certain openings because they understand how the scouting worker at the start of the game delays everything. instead, they rely on other methods, such as their opponents scout arriving at their base.
however, there are many builds where a worker scout after the first rax, gate, pylon is totally reasonable and the build is still working great.
for zerg, people just need to find the appropriate times to drone scout (and figure out the information they're presented) or simply to scout in general. obviously speed overlords and fast lair are not the option here. those options actually set the zerg so far behind it's not funny.
your argument may be: but it's worth all the information you get. that's a toss-up and is not necessarily correct. it's a common workaround response to people having difficulty scouting. the case is that you set yourself behind--increasingly so as the game goes on. notice how players don't build spores until the last moment possible? try to take lair after taking a third? don't get burrow until much later into a game? this is because they're not necessary to the strategy they have in mind, and not necessary for that stage of the game. yes, you are going to get all of those things eventually, but the later you have to get them, the better your economy goes.
keep in mind, every worker mining is just about 50 minerals a minute, possibly less. if you squeeze in a couple minutes of extra mining per extra drone you would have, it's an extra ~100 minerals (on top of the workers paying for themselves) that you wouldn't have had. that's just 2 minutes, for 2 workers.
once again, the goal should be to make whatever build you're making seemless and sensical.
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Do they copy and paste this stuff? We don't want to "see how it plays out". Ravagers and parasitic bomb need to be nerfed ASAP.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On January 11 2016 19:48 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Do they copy and paste this stuff? We don't want to "see how it plays out". Ravagers and parasitic bomb need to be nerfed ASAP.
Ravagers in what matchup? I find as mech ravagers to be pretty easy to fight against.
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I was so shocked when i read the comment about the adepts. So i really need to see some tvp in GSL/ Starleague quick to see if i am just completely blind and biased or adept WP combination is imbalanced as shit and destroys options for the terran and blizzard didnt watch any replays/tourneys the past month.
I hope the first thing is true and i get to see the "the counter" blizzard is waiting for to get a 50% win rate in tvp (i dont do 1/1/1).
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Could someone with programing skills create a community feedback update generator so I don't have to wait for next week? It doesn't have to be very complicated, the more generic it sounds, the better! I'd do it myself but I lack skill and time for that.
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On January 11 2016 10:44 nanaoei wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them. it's not like there's limited ways to scout, it's just not standard in the way the race tends to play its strategies. 1 drone not mining for a full minute does actually matter. if you did this as terran for say a widow mine drop build, your build would absolutely not be seemless, and it typically stalls the actual drop by more than 10 seconds. otherwise, you need to choose between having a lesser economy, being supply blocked, or having less units. the keyword is 'seemless', and you'll often see some pros not scout when they play certain openings because they understand how the scouting worker at the start of the game delays everything. instead, they rely on other methods, such as their opponents scout arriving at their base. however, there are many builds where a worker scout after the first rax, gate, pylon is totally reasonable and the build is still working great. for zerg, people just need to find the appropriate times to drone scout (and figure out the information they're presented) or simply to scout in general. obviously speed overlords and fast lair are not the option here. those options actually set the zerg so far behind it's not funny. your argument may be: but it's worth all the information you get. that's a toss-up and is not necessarily correct. it's a common workaround response to people having difficulty scouting. the case is that you set yourself behind--increasingly so as the game goes on. notice how players don't build spores until the last moment possible? try to take lair after taking a third? don't get burrow until much later into a game? this is because they're not necessary to the strategy they have in mind, and not necessary for that stage of the game. yes, you are going to get all of those things eventually, but the later you have to get them, the better your economy goes. keep in mind, every worker mining is just about 50 minerals a minute, possibly less. if you squeeze in a couple minutes of extra mining per extra drone you would have, it's an extra ~100 minerals (on top of the workers paying for themselves) that you wouldn't have had. that's just 2 minutes, for 2 workers. once again, the goal should be to make whatever build you're making seemless and sensical.
Hmmmm. This is an extremely interesting point you make. Is there any way you can demonstrate how a Terran sending out an SCV scout at an inappropriate time delays a Widow Mine drop?
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On January 11 2016 06:15 Jj_82 wrote:
I played coop on normal speed and it feels just sooo dumb. And I'm just gold.
The fast speed should be taken care of by letting go of "terrible terrible damage abilities" like with Oracles, Banelings, and Mines. I played waaaay too many matches where the game was decided in a split second, with no chance for comeback. Thus resulting in a very disappointing feeling.
Pretty much what has been said even since SC2 was released and needs to be said over and over again until Blizzard listens.
The problem is not the game speed. It's the damage output.
Everything dies so fast. That's why there is no time to react, not because of the speed. Even if you would micro your army the units would still die fast because of the damage!
I don't have a solution for the problem, maybe there is too much work do be done but I would just reduce damage across the board x %.
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On January 11 2016 20:43 papaz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 06:15 Jj_82 wrote:
I played coop on normal speed and it feels just sooo dumb. And I'm just gold.
The fast speed should be taken care of by letting go of "terrible terrible damage abilities" like with Oracles, Banelings, and Mines. I played waaaay too many matches where the game was decided in a split second, with no chance for comeback. Thus resulting in a very disappointing feeling. Pretty much what has been said even since SC2 was released and needs to be said over and over again until Blizzard listens. The problem is not the game speed. It's the damage output. Everything dies so fast. That's why there is no time to react, not because of the speed. Even if you would micro your army the units would still die fast because of the damage! I don't have a solution for the problem, maybe there is too much work do be done but I would just reduce damage across the board x %.
It is not as simple as it sounds. It really is an interesting idea and people stated that it should have been done in the beta. I do not think there is any space for it now that the game is live because it changes the balance completely.
For example they tried (intern as they said) attack speed reduction. But what does that result in? Banelings, disruptors get more powerful, onehit units in general, storm, emp etc.
In case of a total damage reduction you have similar problems:
One example for damage reduction is the siegetank (lets keep tankivac out of this thought). zerglings would get close to it without dying.
Also things like flying into turrets etc. would not be punished as hard as now.
As i said, i like the idea but its very complex and i do not see blizzard making such a huge change.
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sry... pls delete selfquote oO
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On January 11 2016 19:48 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Do they copy and paste this stuff? We don't want to "see how it plays out". Ravagers and parasitic bomb need to be nerfed ASAP.
Because kneejerk reactions are always a good idea.
*cough*queenbuff*cough*
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all i can say as a terran lotv is absolutely no fun to play... very limited strategy wise, vs protoss u cant attack at all until warp prism dies, while u have to watch out for so many protoss all ins ... vs zerg u its ok but once they get out ultralisks its kinda hope not to die until u hv enough ghosts. especially for none pro terran players i feel like its the worst sc2 so far... also i dont like the game pace at all, thats just my personal opinion... i did like the slow pace start with alot of scouting and try to read the enemy strategy at start.
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Buff sensor towers. I'm so sick of doom drops in TvT.
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On January 11 2016 03:04 EatingBomber wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 00:31 Aegwynn wrote:On January 10 2016 23:56 Charoisaur wrote:On January 10 2016 23:47 Aegwynn wrote:
Would they consider increasing overlord speed for the first 5 seconds of the game? It is literally impossible to scout terran on certain maps, playing a zvt blindly isn't very strategic. And the bigger problem is with zvz which is too random maybe you could scout with a drone ...? or is that to much to ask? That can add even more randomness to the zvz, because drone scouting will leave you behind in mirror openings And obviously you can't drone scout terran because everything you need to see happens after the 2nd supply depot How will using 1 Drone to scout leave you behind? I think the information gathered, including the basic openings, is worth far more than having less than 100 minerals gathered than your opponent, more than easily made up for. Also, there are numerous ways to scout a Terran. A fast Lair/Pneuatized Carapace is one of them.
cuz zerg eco is exponential and seeing an enemy drone scout as a zerg gives you almost as much info as drone scouting yourself - theres a reason nobody does it in high level zvz
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EPT
