Maybe they could add an option when looking for a ladder game that lets you choose the slower speed. That way people can get paired against other fellas looking for a slower game, and can choose to transition to the fastest mode whenever they feel like it.

It's obvious that the game is too overwhelming for new players with the new economy.

tamino

France51 Posts

January 09 2016 11:32 GMT

#163

God damnit, protoss strong ? Ok I'm done with the game for sometime, I'm tired of playing zergs and them feeling so op to me (dont know if its the case, but thats the feeling, diamond player). I play twice more zergs than protoss and terrans, its crazy.

Weltall

Italy83 Posts

January 09 2016 11:36 GMT

#164

my 2 cents

PO nerf is ok
PB nerf is ok
Adepts -> remove +13 bonus vs light and make a 20 flat damage instead. This way they won't 2 shot marines/workers, they will still 2 shots lings, they will scale much better in late game. 20 flat is too much? then put it 15 but with increased attack speed, and resonating glaives gives +5 damage instead of increase attack speed.
Lurkers -> make hive tech
Ravagers -> increase bile cooldown+ give armored tag

Game fixed

Hider

Denmark9407 Posts

January 09 2016 12:16 GMT

#165

they will still 2 shots lings, they will scale much better in late game. 20 flat is too much?

The late game change is easy enough to fix though. Reasoning Glaves should just be a more expensive upgrade and take longer to research, and then you can increase the attack speed bonus to 60% or something like that.

It really makes no sense that it costs 100/100 and is relatively fast to research as that makes it better for early midgame timings than later game viability.

Paukum

Norway60 Posts

January 09 2016 13:25 GMT

#166

If they do anything with the game speed, it should be an option, as others here have argued, not an automatic mechanism. I'm a casual player, mostly 2v2, and have oscillated between gold and plat the last couple of years. It would be incredibly annoying to have to adapt to different speeds all the time.

And is it not already possible to change the game speed in custom games (or do I confuse sc1 and sc2?). In that case I would prefer they improve upon the channels where one can find other players wanting to play custom games on lower speeds, or that they made a separate "training ladder".

Big J

Austria16289 Posts

January 09 2016 13:34 GMT

#167

20 flat is too much. I tested it and the adept singlehandedly starts beating roach/ravager/hydra/ling compositions. Also turns the adept in a pretty good counter to the marauder and still counters marines. Do I need to mention warpgate allins with that?
15 with increased attack speed and +5attack upgrade is probably very similar if you aim for similar dps. Some relations (zerglings) might be different, but for most relations it wouldn't matter too much.

Don't know about more expensive upgrade, I don't think the upgrade is what is causing big problems. I don't think the units stats are what is causing problems. It's the places the adept reaches with psionic transfer and warpgates/prisms.

Heartland

Sweden24591 Posts

January 09 2016 13:43 GMT

#168

Can we add some polls to what people think of every suggested change to the OP?

Penev

28500 Posts

January 09 2016 13:51 GMT

#169

On January 09 2016 22:34 Big J wrote:
20 flat is too much. I tested it and the adept singlehandedly starts beating roach/ravager/hydra/ling compositions. Also turns the adept in a pretty good counter to the marauder and still counters marines. Do I need to mention warpgate allins with that?
15 with increased attack speed and +5attack upgrade is probably very similar if you aim for similar dps. Some relations (zerglings) might be different, but for most relations it wouldn't matter too much.

Don't know about more expensive upgrade, I don't think the upgrade is what is causing big problems. I don't think the units stats are what is causing problems. It's the places the adept reaches with psionic transfer and warpgates/prisms.

Agree. Blizzard should focus on the Warp Prism more to solve this but unfortunately no mention of that in this update when it was brought up many times by the community already.

GreenHealing

82 Posts

January 09 2016 14:01 GMT

#170

Give turrets ability to shoot ground, problem solved.

purplenugget

4 Posts

January 09 2016 14:14 GMT

#171

I think early game TVP is more a question of good game design than a balance issue. This might be hard to admit for a lead game designer. And it surely wont improve by watching it closely.

_fool

Netherlands678 Posts

January 09 2016 14:23 GMT

#172

Please don't touch game speed! I know I suck but at least let me suck in the same game the pro's are playing

NBird

United States24 Posts

January 09 2016 14:27 GMT

#173

The game speed change seems wierd, especially for players who would be right on the edge of that skill differentiation.

Dangermousecatdog

United Kingdom7084 Posts

January 09 2016 14:35 GMT

#174

Changing the game speed is just an awful idea. Did Blizzard really ask pros which would be like asking gold players their ideas on balance, or did they just make it up to drum up support their their own idea? It just doesn't make any sense. The gold player will on attempting to promote themselves to platinum will not only play with every single macro timing in the game wrong, but with the simple micro that underpins basic unit interactions everyone relies on completely to be completely wrong as well.

A_needle_jog

Korea (South)699 Posts

January 09 2016 15:42 GMT

#175

On January 09 2016 14:51 playa wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 09 2016 14:27 A_needle_jog wrote:

On January 09 2016 14:26 EatingBomber wrote:

On January 09 2016 14:22 A_needle_jog wrote:

On January 09 2016 14:20 playa wrote:

On January 09 2016 14:11 BronzeKnee wrote:

On January 09 2016 14:06 playa wrote:
It killed my soul to have to go mass blink stalker every game vs Zerg in HotS.

The Viper killed everyone's soul for forcing us to do that. I just did 2 base timings pre-Viper to avoid playing versus that dumb unit, but then I just quit HOTS altogether.

I hated viper vs colossi. It was so coin flippy to me. It's so stressful/annoying when so much of your army strength, and chances of winning, can disappear in 2 clicks from the opponent... or vice versa, and it appears like luck was the deciding factor...

But I mainly arrived at the same oracle into stlakers due to mutas. Phoenix just aren't a unit you want to make vs Zerg. You don't want to go colossi then have to make phoenix. You have to be so much better than your opponent to not end up too far behind economically or not end up with the wrong balance/composition. It just wasn't worth it. You wanted to feel like you could win the game if you were around the same level as your opponent.

Hello playa.

What would you change about what you said earlier?

You said in Grandmaster there are zergs who play without hotkeys and that zerg is the easiest race. What is your idea of chaning it ?

Do you think that Zerg gamers have the lowest average skill level in Starcraft 2 out of the three races?

I play on the KR server, and it is blatantly untrue that Zerg players do not use hotkeys. Also, it is untrue that Zerg us the race requiring the least skill, ZvT requires a great deal of skill for both sides, ZvZ requires incredible, consistent micro, and I think PvZ is just stupid and consists either of 2-3 base all-ins or 200/200 1a battles with both players desperately trying to cast some spells or kill the enemy spellcasters before the fight

But I am confused now.

Teamliquid user "playa" said that Zerg is the easiest race and some Grandmaster Zerg players don't even use hotkeys. Who am I supposed to believe now

Caveat: I mainly played NA. I used to show screenshots of top GM games on NA vs Zerg players. It would be max vs max. I would have all hotkeys being used and my opponent would have 0. Many players either only use the select all army hotkey or would only hotkey their queens. Select all then A-move allowed players, seriously, to reach number 1 GM.

Ok I think I understand your point of view. Zerg players just do A-move attack without hotkeys after they press all army button. Maybe David Kim could make Zerg like bw again where you cannot control more units so zerg has harder time with management?

Or what solution would you say is good way to go about it?

Haukinger

Germany131 Posts

January 09 2016 15:49 GMT

#176

Reducing game speed is great, just not only for gold an below. Reduce to normal for everyone!

A_needle_jog

Korea (South)699 Posts

January 09 2016 15:58 GMT

#177

On January 10 2016 00:49 Haukinger wrote:
Reducing game speed is great, just not only for gold an below. Reduce to normal for everyone!

It would be funny to see, but I think all pro players would protest!

I finally have enough time to micro Infestors, Viper, Swarmhosts and Lurkers then

Ctone23

United States1839 Posts

January 09 2016 16:07 GMT

#178

Why not make unranked ladder for players with bronze to silver mmr play at a slighly lower game speed? I don't think Blizzard should slow down the ranked ladder, but I don't see an issue slowing down unranked a bit for the new players out there.

Sissors

1395 Posts

January 09 2016 16:50 GMT

#179

On January 10 2016 01:07 Ctone23 wrote:
Why not make unranked ladder for players with bronze to silver mmr play at a slighly lower game speed? I don't think Blizzard should slow down the ranked ladder, but I don't see an issue slowing down unranked a bit for the new players out there.

Why? And at which speed is a ranked vs unranked match going to be played?

DeadByDawn

United Kingdom476 Posts

January 09 2016 18:09 GMT

#180

A long while back there was a post from David Kim on reducing the insane amount of damage that SC2 units can dish out. The idea was to allow players more time to micro the fight by saving injured units and repositioning units to counter the enemy.

Obviously it got shelved as the rebalancing of units would have been a huge job (shame they never had a long beta period to try something like this

).

This would have been a better way of slowing down the game, both for players and spectators. Especially for casuals the fights in SC2 seem to be over in the blink of an eye and you are dependent on the analysis from the casters to understand what happened.