On March 26 2015 14:55 Jermius wrote: That analysis doesn't make any sense, MarineKing is one of the most emotional players but that also makes him one of the most passionate players. He certainly takes this video game very seriously, even more than other gaming professionals. He is also one of the only players I know that publicly complained about betting and corrupt sponsors in the Korean scene.
yeah sure he wants his attention. didnt he start off his career with the name of slayers boxer? later he was called Foxer for Fake Boxer before changing his name to MKP?
lol. stop dude.
and to people saying MKP is match fixing because the proof is all in the betting lines. well then are we gona say San, Yoda and Inno are all in involved too now? because that is what is being insinuated. sorry but strange betting behaviour is not proof enough. its hilarious how some of the members in his fanclub have already passed judgement and labelled him a match-fixer and saying his career is over (you srsly call yourself fans?) i don't care for MKP as a player but I somehow doubt he is involved in throwing games - its not his style. i think he was just really unlucky. same scenario as the other pinnacle voided games, the only thing is MKP played really really shitty too so it looks kinda bad.when you look at the sloppy play and the betting lines together you might think that is a fair amount of proof to label him a match-fixer - but i just don't think so. only an internal investigation will provide any real answers.
edit: another thing to note is MKP looked visibly distressed before the game even started. there could be any number of reason for this, however if there are personal problems or performance / expectation issues at the mvp house this could be affecting his mentality and make him play really bad. remember these are just kids, often in high pressure situations. also, its not the first time mkp has played with "tunnel vision" and missed something completely obvious.
It's not his style? That's a rather strange thing to say. You wouldn't say it's anybody's style..
On March 26 2015 12:22 Captain Peabody wrote: I'd be shocked if there isn't a Kespa investigation ongoing. That doesn't mean Kespa will tell anyone anything, though.
Also, does anyone know how this looks in the Korean media world? Are a lot of people talking about it?
It's enough of an issue in Korea that Parting defended San in a post-match interview and MarineKing wrote a longish facebook post about illegal gamblers being losers and people accusing him of match fixing were just sore they lose money betting on him.
On March 26 2015 12:11 Popkiller wrote: its kind of funny, to be honest. If I think of MKP throwing a game, it makes total sense that he'd be this bad at it.
I don't have the slightest clue on how the betting bussiness works, but wouldn't Pinnacle be able to trace back the source originator who skewed the betting line?
I'm absolutely sure they have the IP where the bets were placed or what have you. But this is a BIG organization we are talking about; they aren't just going to publicly declare who the person placing these bets is.
I doubt it was a single account placing bets anyways. At least with physical bookies, it's way easier to get away with manipulating lines if you do it via multiple accounts. Although, maybe online multiple accounts betting the same way is part of Pinnacle's anti-fraud detection, so who knows.
On March 26 2015 14:55 Jermius wrote: That analysis doesn't make any sense, MarineKing is one of the most emotional players but that also makes him one of the most passionate players. He certainly takes this video game very seriously, even more than other gaming professionals. He is also one of the only players I know that publicly complained about betting and corrupt sponsors in the Korean scene.
yeah sure he wants his attention. didnt he start off his career with the name of slayers boxer? later he was called Foxer for Fake Boxer before changing his name to MKP?
lol. stop dude.
and to people saying MKP is match fixing because the proof is all in the betting lines. well then are we gona say San, Yoda and Inno are all in involved too now? because that is what is being insinuated. sorry but strange betting behaviour is not proof enough. its hilarious how some of the members in his fanclub have already passed judgement and labelled him a match-fixer and saying his career is over (you srsly call yourself fans?) i don't care for MKP as a player but I somehow doubt he is involved in throwing games - its not his style. i think he was just really unlucky. same scenario as the other pinnacle voided games, the only thing is MKP played really really shitty too so it looks kinda bad.when you look at the sloppy play and the betting lines together you might think that is a fair amount of proof to label him a match-fixer - but i just don't think so. only an internal investigation will provide any real answers.
edit: another thing to note is MKP looked visibly distressed before the game even started. there could be any number of reason for this, however if there are personal problems or performance / expectation issues at the mvp house this could be affecting his mentality and make him play really bad. remember these are just kids, often in high pressure situations. also, its not the first time mkp has played with "tunnel vision" and missed something completely obvious.
'Kinda shitty'? Come on man I haven't seen a Korean pro this bad since Gsl open season 1. It's the most obvious things I've ever seen, more obvious then Winter viewbotting(but i bet you protected him too)
if I were in a position that gave me the responsibility to punish match fixing in a proleague game i'd find it hard not to come down on marine king just from what we know because a. 100 percent proof is probably never going to come in any case like this and b its so suspicious that not doing so would likely cause lots more potential match fixing and c it really does look a lot like match fixing.
.
seeing as how I am not in that position I can afford to be more strict on requiring 100 percent positive irrefutable proof before making accusations. lets say that marineking does know there is a hatch out on the map but isn't familiar enough with this map to know that a proxy hatch works better on this map than others. maybe he thought byul expanded to this third base first followed by taking his natural a moment after and decides instead of pressuring his three base uneconomical build I'll just be even more greedy than him and profit that way and just on the off chance this is an all in instead of a three base i'll keep my reapers home to guard. is it unlikely sure is it possible and a mk thing to do i'd say yes.
heck lets say mk knew exactly what build this was but didn't expect it to come from the back door rocks and thought he'd be able to hold it perfectly when the proxy hatch/spines appeared at his natural instead in his main base amoungst his production.
is it really more unlikely than forgetting that a forge is needed when you want to cannon rush or that warp gate or stim is needed in general? or that running banelings into a hatch when doing ten pool bane doesn't really work out? just a few examples of mistakes Korean pro's have made with out the factor of bets being made and thus are unlikely to be match fixing.
On March 26 2015 14:55 Jermius wrote: That analysis doesn't make any sense, MarineKing is one of the most emotional players but that also makes him one of the most passionate players. He certainly takes this video game very seriously, even more than other gaming professionals. He is also one of the only players I know that publicly complained about betting and corrupt sponsors in the Korean scene.
yeah sure he wants his attention. didnt he start off his career with the name of slayers boxer? later he was called Foxer for Fake Boxer before changing his name to MKP?
lol. stop dude.
and to people saying MKP is match fixing because the proof is all in the betting lines. well then are we gona say San, Yoda and Inno are all in involved too now? because that is what is being insinuated. sorry but strange betting behaviour is not proof enough. its hilarious how some of the members in his fanclub have already passed judgement and labelled him a match-fixer and saying his career is over (you srsly call yourself fans?) i don't care for MKP as a player but I somehow doubt he is involved in throwing games - its not his style. i think he was just really unlucky. same scenario as the other pinnacle voided games, the only thing is MKP played really really shitty too so it looks kinda bad.when you look at the sloppy play and the betting lines together you might think that is a fair amount of proof to label him a match-fixer - but i just don't think so. only an internal investigation will provide any real answers.
edit: another thing to note is MKP looked visibly distressed before the game even started. there could be any number of reason for this, however if there are personal problems or performance / expectation issues at the mvp house this could be affecting his mentality and make him play really bad. remember these are just kids, often in high pressure situations. also, its not the first time mkp has played with "tunnel vision" and missed something completely obvious.
'Kinda shitty'? Come on man I haven't seen a Korean pro this bad since Gsl open season 1. It's the most obvious things I've ever seen, more obvious then Winter viewbotting(but i bet you protected him too)
lol, i couldnt give a shit about winter but hey there you go again jumping to conclusions about people. see how this works?
On March 26 2015 14:55 Jermius wrote: That analysis doesn't make any sense, MarineKing is one of the most emotional players but that also makes him one of the most passionate players. He certainly takes this video game very seriously, even more than other gaming professionals. He is also one of the only players I know that publicly complained about betting and corrupt sponsors in the Korean scene.
yeah sure he wants his attention. didnt he start off his career with the name of slayers boxer? later he was called Foxer for Fake Boxer before changing his name to MKP?
lol. stop dude.
and to people saying MKP is match fixing because the proof is all in the betting lines. well then are we gona say San, Yoda and Inno are all in involved too now? because that is what is being insinuated. sorry but strange betting behaviour is not proof enough. its hilarious how some of the members in his fanclub have already passed judgement and labelled him a match-fixer and saying his career is over (you srsly call yourself fans?) i don't care for MKP as a player but I somehow doubt he is involved in throwing games - its not his style. i think he was just really unlucky. same scenario as the other pinnacle voided games, the only thing is MKP played really really shitty too so it looks kinda bad.when you look at the sloppy play and the betting lines together you might think that is a fair amount of proof to label him a match-fixer - but i just don't think so. only an internal investigation will provide any real answers.
edit: another thing to note is MKP looked visibly distressed before the game even started. there could be any number of reason for this, however if there are personal problems or performance / expectation issues at the mvp house this could be affecting his mentality and make him play really bad. remember these are just kids, often in high pressure situations. also, its not the first time mkp has played with "tunnel vision" and missed something completely obvious.
It's not his style? That's a rather strange thing to say. You wouldn't say it's anybody's style..
And he's hardly a kid, he's 21 isn't he?
look at saviour - guy looked like an evil badass. and if i recall correctly MKP has denounced matchfixing in the SC2 scene before. i'm not saying MKP is innocent just saying that based on all the evidence that WE have right now (betting lines and the game itself) we cannot say with any certainty that he is throwing games. like i pointed out in my post there may be any number of external factors which we are not aware of. only an internal investigation (hopefully there is one) will prove anything conclusive. until then can we stop labeling him a match-fixer?
On March 26 2015 12:11 Popkiller wrote: its kind of funny, to be honest. If I think of MKP throwing a game, it makes total sense that he'd be this bad at it.
I don't have the slightest clue on how the betting bussiness works, but wouldn't Pinnacle be able to trace back the source originator who skewed the betting line?
Its not that easy and straightforward.
Word on the street that the information about matchfixing is being sold. Its very probable that in the end it ends up in a hands off people who have nothing to do with the matchfix itself and just want to profit from it.
That also explains the "Why are these criminals so stupid and bet so much that bets get voided anyway" question.
On March 26 2015 09:50 Davichi wrote: Hello there.
I am posting this on my alternative account as I don't want my main account to be associated with any of the investigations in regards to the current match-fixing crisis we have right now. If moderators want to know who I am, they are free to check my user profile to see the IP matched to the user I am. All I ask is anonymity and to refrain from leaking my actual identity to the public.
Anyway, there's a very popular prop bet that shows up on Korean toto (betting sites) for 'game ending in (X) minutes', where there are several betting odds for a different time (so for example, 15 will have a lower line than say, 10). Word on the street in Korea is that many 'good' players will take advantage of this prop bet in a best-of-series against a weak opponent in order to make a bit of money by throwing one of the sets taking advantage of the prop bet, and then convincingly win the rest of the series.
One game which was highlighted by SwoopAE in terms of being suspicious that may have fit the bill was Innovation vs Super Game 1 from the GSL. This was a part of a best-of-series and had a 2-1 result.
If possible, could anyone check on the times the game ended at and the manner in which the game ended?
EDIT: There was also Super vs Dream Game 1 that was apparently compromised, but Dream swept the series 3-0 so I'm guessing for the bet to be nulled was that Super decided to do something in Game 1 that would have fulfilled a prop bet but he still lost.
Quoting what appears to be a valuable post so it doesn't get lost.
On March 26 2015 09:50 Davichi wrote: Hello there.
I am posting this on my alternative account as I don't want my main account to be associated with any of the investigations in regards to the current match-fixing crisis we have right now. If moderators want to know who I am, they are free to check my user profile to see the IP matched to the user I am. All I ask is anonymity and to refrain from leaking my actual identity to the public.
Anyway, there's a very popular prop bet that shows up on Korean toto (betting sites) for 'game ending in (X) minutes', where there are several betting odds for a different time (so for example, 15 will have a lower line than say, 10). Word on the street in Korea is that many 'good' players will take advantage of this prop bet in a best-of-series against a weak opponent in order to make a bit of money by throwing one of the sets taking advantage of the prop bet, and then convincingly win the rest of the series.
One game which was highlighted by SwoopAE in terms of being suspicious that may have fit the bill was Innovation vs Super Game 1 from the GSL. This was a part of a best-of-series and had a 2-1 result.
If possible, could anyone check on the times the game ended at and the manner in which the game ended?
EDIT: There was also Super vs Dream Game 1 that was apparently compromised, but Dream swept the series 3-0 so I'm guessing for the bet to be nulled was that Super decided to do something in Game 1 that would have fulfilled a prop bet but he still lost.
Quoting what appears to be a valuable post so it doesn't get lost.
Innovation vs Super game 1. It ends at 16:50 in game time.
On March 26 2015 14:55 Jermius wrote: That analysis doesn't make any sense, MarineKing is one of the most emotional players but that also makes him one of the most passionate players. He certainly takes this video game very seriously, even more than other gaming professionals. He is also one of the only players I know that publicly complained about betting and corrupt sponsors in the Korean scene.
yeah sure he wants his attention. didnt he start off his career with the name of slayers boxer? later he was called Foxer for Fake Boxer before changing his name to MKP?
lol. stop dude.
and to people saying MKP is match fixing because the proof is all in the betting lines. well then are we gona say San, Yoda and Inno are all in involved too now? because that is what is being insinuated. sorry but strange betting behaviour is not proof enough. its hilarious how some of the members in his fanclub have already passed judgement and labelled him a match-fixer and saying his career is over (you srsly call yourself fans?) i don't care for MKP as a player but I somehow doubt he is involved in throwing games - its not his style. i think he was just really unlucky. same scenario as the other pinnacle voided games, the only thing is MKP played really really shitty too so it looks kinda bad.when you look at the sloppy play and the betting lines together you might think that is a fair amount of proof to label him a match-fixer - but i just don't think so. only an internal investigation will provide any real answers.
edit: another thing to note is MKP looked visibly distressed before the game even started. there could be any number of reason for this, however if there are personal problems or performance / expectation issues at the mvp house this could be affecting his mentality and make him play really bad. remember these are just kids, often in high pressure situations. also, its not the first time mkp has played with "tunnel vision" and missed something completely obvious.
'Kinda shitty'? Come on man I haven't seen a Korean pro this bad since Gsl open season 1. It's the most obvious things I've ever seen, more obvious then Winter viewbotting(but i bet you protected him too)
lol, i couldnt give a shit about winter but hey there you go again jumping to conclusions about people. see how this works?
Saying it's not his style is just about the same, but maybe you know the guy so well you actually know right? I think you're just way too naive in this, there is already some pro's saying they almost definitely think this was matchfixing
Just caught up. People brought up not scouting with the reapers a lot but for me, sending his scouting scv straight back to his base after seeing byul's main is what did it for me. It's like he thought "Ok, speed is far from started, hatch somewhere on the map. That's all I need to know". He made no attempts whatsoever in finding the hatch nor did he wait for the units in the middle of the map with that scv to prepare for the bust others said he could have been expecting. Not seeing the hatch is a big fucking deal and the chance to get any additional intel in that situation is worth a lot more than an additional mining scv. It just doesn't make sense to send it straight back home when it is not even being threatened by anything yet(pool is halfway done ffs).
On March 26 2015 16:59 Quixotic_tv wrote: If he'd want to manipulate, why did he do that in such an obvious way?
Maybe he didn't intend it to be so obvious? Assuming MKP was indeed throwing, there's almost 0% chance Byul is on it as well, so no matter how much he prepared to throw the game(mismicro in engagements, supply block himself, turtle on a few bases and let the zerg take the whole map, kill his own 3rd), there will always be ways things can go wrong.
On March 26 2015 14:55 Jermius wrote: That analysis doesn't make any sense, MarineKing is one of the most emotional players but that also makes him one of the most passionate players. He certainly takes this video game very seriously, even more than other gaming professionals. He is also one of the only players I know that publicly complained about betting and corrupt sponsors in the Korean scene.
yeah sure he wants his attention. didnt he start off his career with the name of slayers boxer? later he was called Foxer for Fake Boxer before changing his name to MKP?
lol. stop dude.
and to people saying MKP is match fixing because the proof is all in the betting lines. well then are we gona say San, Yoda and Inno are all in involved too now? because that is what is being insinuated. sorry but strange betting behaviour is not proof enough. its hilarious how some of the members in his fanclub have already passed judgement and labelled him a match-fixer and saying his career is over (you srsly call yourself fans?) i don't care for MKP as a player but I somehow doubt he is involved in throwing games - its not his style. i think he was just really unlucky. same scenario as the other pinnacle voided games, the only thing is MKP played really really shitty too so it looks kinda bad.when you look at the sloppy play and the betting lines together you might think that is a fair amount of proof to label him a match-fixer - but i just don't think so. only an internal investigation will provide any real answers.
edit: another thing to note is MKP looked visibly distressed before the game even started. there could be any number of reason for this, however if there are personal problems or performance / expectation issues at the mvp house this could be affecting his mentality and make him play really bad. remember these are just kids, often in high pressure situations. also, its not the first time mkp has played with "tunnel vision" and missed something completely obvious.
'Kinda shitty'? Come on man I haven't seen a Korean pro this bad since Gsl open season 1. It's the most obvious things I've ever seen, more obvious then Winter viewbotting(but i bet you protected him too)
lol, i couldnt give a shit about winter but hey there you go again jumping to conclusions about people. see how this works?
Saying it's not his style is just about the same, but maybe you know the guy so well you actually know right? I think you're just way too naive in this, there is already some pro's saying they almost definitely think this was matchfixing
read my post. i said i doubt he is throwing games. yes, I made an inference based on what i know about his personality but I did not make a final judgement. which is what you are doing. and i don't care that some pros are saying they "almost definitely think this was match-fixing" I can think for myself.
On March 26 2015 18:31 seom wrote: and i don't care that some pros are saying they "almost definitely think this was match-fixing"
That only makes you look ignorant and delusional at best. Ignoring the pro's opinions on the matter is very foolish.
And i bet if some pro player would show up defending MKP you would be the first one to quote him and care about his opinion then.
Luckily the matchfix was so blatant that its almost impossible to defend MKP with anything but "well, we dont have enough, there is a small % chance that he was just tripping out of his mind".
So far we had ZERO pro players coming out with reasonable defense for MKP based on the gameplay he showed. And you are willing to ignore that, why? Too emotionally invested in MKP being innocent?
On March 26 2015 18:31 seom wrote: and i don't care that some pros are saying they "almost definitely think this was match-fixing"
That only makes you look ignorant and delusional at best. Ignoring the pro's opinions on the matter is very foolish.
And i bet if some pro player would show up defending MKP you would be the first one to quote him and care about his opinion then.
Luckily the matchfix was so blatant that its almost impossible to defend MKP with anything but "well, we dont have enough, there is a small % chance that he was just tripping out of his mind".
So far we had ZERO pro players coming out with reasonable defense for MKP based on the gameplay he showed. And you are willing to ignore that, why? Too emotionally invested in MKP being innocent?
please stop this. I don't even like MKP, I am just not jumping to conclusions without more evidence or hearing his side of the story. enjoy your witch-hunt, i'm done with this thread.
On March 26 2015 18:42 sAsImre wrote: Funny how it turns exactly like the last thread with some low post count attacking everyone casting a doubt on the match-fixing process.
Casting a doubt does not equal just being in denial. I would be interested to see a reasonable alternative explanation of the events, given the evidence we have.
But so far, we have people saying "Its a blatant matchfix, we have A,B,C,D pointing towards it"
And others "countering" it with "No, its not enough, its probably just something else but not that"
EPT
