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On December 04 2014 03:42 ejozl wrote:
Can't see what this is supposed to help?
It's not like Toss players are losing, because they randomly run HT's and Sentries into Widow Mines. They'll still splash Observers and Probes to death and I don't think this will be enough to make HT openers standard.
But they were losing because they'd lose all of their zealots to just a few widow mines, Chargelot/HT isn't so good when the backbone of the composition is nullified by just a few very cheap and easy to make units.
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On December 04 2014 03:45 geokilla wrote:
They almost always kill Probes in the mineral line, but there's a chance they won't kill as many drones or SCVs because Drones and SCVs lack shields. Plus SCVs have 5 more HP which is fairly imbalanced in terms of Widow Mines damaging harvester lines.
?? Mines have the same effect on Drones and Probes, the bonus damage to Shields changes nothing to the death of Probes since they're destroyed by the primary 40 damage anyway. You're confusing this with the Mine 2.1.
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On December 04 2014 03:53 Goomgums wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 03:42 ejozl wrote:
Can't see what this is supposed to help?
It's not like Toss players are losing, because they randomly run HT's and Sentries into Widow Mines. They'll still splash Observers and Probes to death and I don't think this will be enough to make HT openers standard. But they were losing because they'd lose all of their zealots to just a few widow mines, Chargelot/HT isn't so good when the backbone of the composition is nullified by just a few very cheap and easy to make units.
Yeah I take it back, it will ofc help, but it's a very precise change chosen to not have a huge impact.
However now that I think about it, it will help promote the Immortal allin, since u don't lose all the Sentries to one Mine shot and the fear of the Immortal allin alone from Terrans will help Protoss in the long run.
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Sounds good, maybe we will a few templar openings again? Zerg is fine anyway I think, it's just about maps really and as long as the best Zerg can still win tournaments I won't complain.
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soooooo zerg is underpowered slightly
no change to anything effecting zerg
kk
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On December 04 2014 03:47 BronzeKnee wrote:
What this has taught me is that Zerg players need to bitch harder if they ever want to have good maps/buffs.
I've done quite a bit of research on the topic... and my explanation is this: David Kim and his balance team is best with Zerg, and worst with Terran.
Therefore, Terran overall, has had the most months where it was dominant in terms of balance than any other race. And this is simply because the Blizzard balance teams trust their own internal testing more than anything else, and therefore in the LOTV alpha, we saw Terran massively overpowered, just like they were in the WOL and HOTS Beta, because they suck at Terran. So they have to compensate for their own internal testing by making Terran incredibly powerful.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah totally, David Kim is grandmaster in all three races so he would clearly 'suck at terran'.
I can't believe I just jumped to the defence of Mr Kim!!
Adding an edit here, seriously how can you say that alpha or beta software is a representation of ANYTHING? It's alpha and beta for a reason.
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Buff tank (only vs z somehow), nerf mine splash (just a bit), and balance would be the closest to perfect we'd ever get.
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On December 04 2014 03:38 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Not sure if that's enough but they're addressing the right issue. Can always scale it up/down from there. Reassuring to know that they're aware of what the issues for PvT are though!
It's not. This small change will not affect PvT very much. It won't even touch TvZ. Try harder next time Blizz
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It's always very smart to talk about balance when the stats before "terran pool" was:
From 31 july to 30 november, TvP records :
Balanced:
Deadwing : 34-36 (48.6%)
Overgrowth : 86-86 (50%)
King station : 78-77 (50.3%)
imbalanced :
Merry go round : 67-52 (56.3%)
Catallena : 37-27 (57.8%)
Foxtrot Labs : 32-22 (59.3%)
Nimbus : 67-35 (65.7%)
No patch between all this periods.
I think it's to smart to wait next pool map and then check if there are some sort of imbalance. Personally i think it's a maps based issues.
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On December 04 2014 04:03 EngrishTeacher wrote:
Buff tank (only vs z somehow), nerf mine splash (just a bit), and balance would be the closest to perfect we'd ever get.
Why does every single T unit have to be very useful? Tank is moderately useful as it is. You don't see P or Z players complaining that their every unit isn't great at everything so they need to be buffed.
Nerf mine splash (more than just a little bit), but there has to be nerfs other aspects of Terran units. This tiny change won't address anything.
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So dumb. Please link here one VOD where widow mines are killing "swarms" of zealots and nullifying the backbone of protoss army. That's almost always stalkers and collo/HT these days, maybe a few zealots mixed in to tank, but not more. Terrans have a tough enough time killing zealots as it is today, nerfing the mine will mean, back to zealot HT archon weeeeee so fun to watch !!!!!! Please address the real issues (such as ZvT indeed) and stop bugging with PvT.....if you fix the maps then PvT is fine imho...........
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On December 04 2014 03:53 Goomgums wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 03:42 ejozl wrote:
Can't see what this is supposed to help?
It's not like Toss players are losing, because they randomly run HT's and Sentries into Widow Mines. They'll still splash Observers and Probes to death and I don't think this will be enough to make HT openers standard. But they were losing because they'd lose all of their zealots to just a few widow mines, Chargelot/HT isn't so good when the backbone of the composition is nullified by just a few very cheap and easy to make units.
I love how protoss are asking for more openings when they already have a ton. Scouting a protoss in TvP is already a mid-time job, but yeah, lets make it more difficult/coinflippy. If you want to make zealot/templars you can...Just make a bunch of coloss before. Thats how protoss works after all..
I would like to make tanks vs toss but i can't. Early game, mid game, late game...It doesnt matter, I just cant and that's it....
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On December 04 2014 04:07 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 04:03 EngrishTeacher wrote:
Buff tank (only vs z somehow), nerf mine splash (just a bit), and balance would be the closest to perfect we'd ever get. Why does every single T unit have to be very useful? Tank is moderately useful as it is. You don't see P or Z players complaining that their every unit isn't great at everything so they need to be buffed. Nerf mine splash (more than just a little bit), but there has to be nerfs other aspects of Terran units. This tiny change won't address anything.
Tanks are useless out of TvT dude.
Every unit should be useful in preferably 2 matchups, else, the unit is stupid.
Protoss has the Carrier which has no use, but also has more units in general. that's it.
Zerg has probably no units that are useless.
Terran? Siege Tanks are terrible, Battlecruisers, Banshees, all useless out of TvT....
That, and STs are iconic and the most awesome type of unit design in this game.
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God damn. At last, at last they start think with their head, not ass.
Maybe that allow protoss, to play again with high templars at 10 minute marks in PvT. 27% and 29% on last 2 tournaments, enough to start thinking.
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On December 04 2014 04:11 LIGHTWEIGHT wrote:
God damn. At last, at last they start think with their head, not ass.
Maybe that allow protoss, to play again with high templars at 10 minute marks in PvT. 27% and 29% on last 2 tournaments, enough to start thinking.
OMFG IMBALANCED WINRATES IN 2 TOURNAMENTS NERFNERF
Seriously, it's probably harder to find a balanced tournament (winrates between 40-60%) than an unbalanced one, because the sheer number of games the winner will play.
Taking a tiny number of tournaments is hilarious.
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Italy12246 Posts
On December 04 2014 03:22 CakeSauc3 wrote:
Would this bring back Templar openings?
Glad they're mostly focusing on maps.
Maybe. Fingers crossed. Do mines still oneshot zealots if they get a straight hit?
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Where's that zerg buff mmm what a tasty prospect.
Who has ideas for what zerg buffs could be made which wouldn't be too much? I think the zerg drop upgrade is long overdue for having its time and price decreased ... cut 33% of the time and drop it to 150/150.. what do you think? :D It would bring back brood war flavor in a big way, too.
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On December 04 2014 04:11 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2014 04:07 parkufarku wrote:On December 04 2014 04:03 EngrishTeacher wrote:
Buff tank (only vs z somehow), nerf mine splash (just a bit), and balance would be the closest to perfect we'd ever get. Why does every single T unit have to be very useful? Tank is moderately useful as it is. You don't see P or Z players complaining that their every unit isn't great at everything so they need to be buffed. Nerf mine splash (more than just a little bit), but there has to be nerfs other aspects of Terran units. This tiny change won't address anything. Tanks are useless out of TvT dude. Every unit should be useful in preferably 2 matchups, else, the unit is stupid. Protoss has the Carrier which has no use, but also has more units in general. that's it. Zerg has probably no units that are useless. Terran? Siege Tanks are terrible, Battlecruisers, Banshees, all useless out of TvT.... That, and STs are iconic and the most awesome type of unit design in this game.
Tanks are used against zerg hen playing mech and they work really well.
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Italy12246 Posts
On December 04 2014 04:15 Lumi wrote:
Where's that zerg buff mmm what a tasty prospect.
Who has ideas for what zerg buffs could be made which wouldn't be too much? I think the zerg drop upgrade is long overdue for having its time and price decreased ... cut 33% of the time and drop it to 150/150.. what do you think? :D It would bring back brood war flavor in a big way, too.
Seeing Z is only slightly underperforming, it's better to address maps than units imo
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EPT
