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On December 11 2014 18:48 deacon.frost wrote:
Yay, SSL turning into TvT league. But why to care, Terrans are just better, right?
Well, at least I can skip the league.
Edit>(also the qualified zerg column is just ridiculous)
Funny thing is, the qualified zergs have no chance against more than half of the Terran column even with a balanced game. Solar, Dark, ByuL and Rogue? Would you really put them on par with Maru, Innovation and Flash (and others imo, but I'll just mention those 3 since those aren't debatable ;D)?
Only Soulkey has proven himself top class.
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Czech Republic12131 Posts
Well I meant the amount, not the names. Right now it is 10(P)/11(T)/6(Z)
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On December 11 2014 19:06 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2014 18:48 deacon.frost wrote:
Yay, SSL turning into TvT league. But why to care, Terrans are just better, right?
Well, at least I can skip the league.
Edit>(also the qualified zerg column is just ridiculous) Funny thing is, the qualified zergs have no chance against more than half of the Terran column even with a balanced game. Solar, Dark, ByuL and Rogue? Would you really put them on par with Maru, Innovation and Flash (and others imo, but I'll just mention those 3 since those aren't debatable ;D)? Only Soulkey has proven himself top class.
They are all top notch Zergs buddy....
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Before people draw negative imbaimba conclusions on the qualifiers for SSL;
8 Zergs got 3rd spot, so the top 3 is really, really balanced 0_0!
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Wow. Zest rain and SoS did not qualify for RO32. Only herO made it.
Zest went out by zvp and rain by pvp an sOs from pvt. These qualifiers are cutthroat and a lot depends on bracket luck.
But we are seeing a return of terrans who have been largely irrelevant for a while.
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On December 11 2014 02:17 TheDwf wrote:
Ah, Rain opened Templar? Which game was it?
On Merry Go Round IIRC, Game 2?
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Not sure if aligulac is fully updated, but the winrates there are fine. Only thing that is off is the amount of ZvZs (0) compared to 16 TvT and 18 PvP.
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Cool. Weird that the amount of mirrors on aligulac is so much higher, the other results are similar and could just be aligulac still missing a few games.
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On December 11 2014 20:23 Big J wrote:Cool. Weird that the amount of mirrors on aligulac is so much higher, the other results are similar and could just be aligulac still missing a few games.
I think Aligulac includes Australia, where literally 90% of the pros plays Zerg.
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On December 11 2014 20:23 Big J wrote:Cool. Weird that the amount of mirrors on aligulac is so much higher, the other results are similar and could just be aligulac still missing a few games.
Aligulac counts maps and not series
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On December 11 2014 18:48 deacon.frost wrote:
Yay, SSL turning into TvT league. But why to care, Terrans are just better, right?
Well, at least I can skip the league.
Edit>(also the qualified zerg column is just ridiculous)
12/10/6 isn't TvT league, what's up with the random hyperbole? If anything, it points in the direction of Blizzard's premise: "zerg is a little too weak", and it continues to make their conclusion of 'let's offer a TvP patch' senseless.
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On December 11 2014 21:04 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2014 18:48 deacon.frost wrote:
Yay, SSL turning into TvT league. But why to care, Terrans are just better, right?
Well, at least I can skip the league.
Edit>(also the qualified zerg column is just ridiculous) 12/10/6 isn't TvT league, what's up with the random hyperbole? If anything, it points in the direction of Blizzard's premise: "zerg is a little too weak", and it continues to make their conclusion of 'let's offer a TvP patch' senseless.
Notice again: 8 Zergs placed 3rd in the brackets, so if you take Top 3, the balance is really good.
It's something to keep an eye out on, but SSL only reinforces the thought Zerg "might possibly be a tad on the weak side". No more conclusions to be drawn.
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Czech Republic12131 Posts
On December 11 2014 21:04 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2014 18:48 deacon.frost wrote:
Yay, SSL turning into TvT league. But why to care, Terrans are just better, right?
Well, at least I can skip the league.
Edit>(also the qualified zerg column is just ridiculous) 12/10/6 isn't TvT league, what's up with the random hyperbole? If anything, it points in the direction of Blizzard's premise: "zerg is a little too weak", and it continues to make their conclusion of 'let's offer a TvP patch' senseless.
When I was writing it it was 8/11/5(6), so at that time it was turning into TvT league. So... yeah. This.
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On December 11 2014 21:07 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2014 21:04 Nebuchad wrote:On December 11 2014 18:48 deacon.frost wrote:
Yay, SSL turning into TvT league. But why to care, Terrans are just better, right?
Well, at least I can skip the league.
Edit>(also the qualified zerg column is just ridiculous) 12/10/6 isn't TvT league, what's up with the random hyperbole? If anything, it points in the direction of Blizzard's premise: "zerg is a little too weak", and it continues to make their conclusion of 'let's offer a TvP patch' senseless. Notice again: 8 Zergs placed 3rd in the brackets, so if you take Top 3, the balance is really good. It's something to keep an eye out on, but SSL only reinforces the thought Zerg "might possibly be a tad on the weak side". No more conclusions to be drawn.
I agree. Lots of terrans and protosses around lately, slightly less Z's. But when you look at the games, I think Zergs are still doing well vs protoss currently. And in ZvT, zergs might be a bit weak, but not by much IMHO. Now, finding a buff that only has a slight (yet still meaningful) effect in ZvT without impact PvZ can be a complex thing.
I did like Blizz's idea of buffing the overseer speed back then. I think it's that kind of change that could be required: no direct change to combat units, but something that will slightly help good zergs to get just that tad bit better. However, I don't think there is any point in re-buffing overseer speed. What other change could you guys think of ? Something involving creep spread maybe ? Although that might impact ZvP (and swarm host games).
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I don't really get Blizzard. First they nerf the widow mine, then they undo the nerf, and now they want to undo what they undid.
I know that D. Kim isn't exactly the most creative type when it comes to balance changes, but this is just lazy.
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On December 11 2014 22:37 LoneYoShi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2014 21:07 SC2Toastie wrote:On December 11 2014 21:04 Nebuchad wrote:On December 11 2014 18:48 deacon.frost wrote:
Yay, SSL turning into TvT league. But why to care, Terrans are just better, right?
Well, at least I can skip the league.
Edit>(also the qualified zerg column is just ridiculous) 12/10/6 isn't TvT league, what's up with the random hyperbole? If anything, it points in the direction of Blizzard's premise: "zerg is a little too weak", and it continues to make their conclusion of 'let's offer a TvP patch' senseless. Notice again: 8 Zergs placed 3rd in the brackets, so if you take Top 3, the balance is really good. It's something to keep an eye out on, but SSL only reinforces the thought Zerg "might possibly be a tad on the weak side". No more conclusions to be drawn. I agree. Lots of terrans and protosses around lately, slightly less Z's. But when you look at the games, I think Zergs are still doing well vs protoss currently. And in ZvT, zergs might be a bit weak, but not by much IMHO. Now, finding a buff that only has a slight (yet still meaningful) effect in ZvT without impact PvZ can be a complex thing. I did like Blizz's idea of buffing the overseer speed back then. I think it's that kind of change that could be required: no direct change to combat units, but something that will slightly help good zergs to get just that tad bit better. However, I don't think there is any point in re-buffing overseer speed. What other change could you guys think of ? Something involving creep spread maybe ? Although that might impact ZvP (and swarm host games).
(Disclaimer: Siege Tank Fanboy and Parade Push Disliker)
So, if I was given the 'power' to change things, I'd first start looking at how the matchup plays out. Essentially, it comes down to whether Terran can handle A) The Ling Baneling Flood and B) The Mutalisk Flock. Ways to handel A: Mines, Very good Micro, Tanks. Ways to handle B: Thors, Mines, being aggressive with Marines.
I think the problem is in the strenght of the Mutalisk, actually. That makes it so Terran cannot rely on the Siege Tank for defense against Ling Bane, but NEEDS Mine + Thor to do the job Siege Tank + Positioning could do in WoL.
I would like to start thinking about reversing Mutalisk movement speed and reducing their Regeneration (The latter is problematic in PvZ as well, with Protoss being forced to baserace OR wait for Phoenix as Mutalisk are too mobile and regenerate too fast for a Stalker Templar defense to ward them of). We could then reduce the effectiveness of the Widow Mine (I kinda liked how it worked with 3 layered areas of damage) as the Siege Tank could fill the role of defending against Mass Ling Bane.
New problems that arise might include the Speedivac, which now moves on par with Mutalisk when boosted, but after a nerf will be faster. There is one way of fixing this which I like the most: Make the speed buff slightly longer (2s) but make the cooldown a lot longer (10s). This assures a drop still is a commitment. You can trade higher damage potential for the safety of your dropship, or risk getting fully defended and have a speedboost to return with. Not both. The effects on TvP shouldn't be too major (actually advantageous for P, I suppose, which is fine).
My prefered new (super old) metagame would be Marine Tank Medivac verse Ling Muta Bane. Swarm Host are a logical next transition for Zerg afterwards, which makes for pretty sick games vs MM. And a lategame Mechanical Transition for Terran becomes easier to achieve compared to WOL as a result of the maps 
I just loved WOL Marine Tank vs MLB, don't hate me ^_^
/stupidbalancesuggestionsfromanoob
PS Might not have been totally clear: Essentially, I want the Mine to be changed into a quick response/ harassment role, whilst the Siege Tank returns to the role of controlling Space and REKK'N Ling Bane. Ideally, the Mine becomes even weaker and one supply, but that is even more of a major change to try for in a patch.
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On December 11 2014 19:06 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2014 18:48 deacon.frost wrote:
Yay, SSL turning into TvT league. But why to care, Terrans are just better, right?
Well, at least I can skip the league.
Edit>(also the qualified zerg column is just ridiculous) Funny thing is, the qualified zergs have no chance against more than half of the Terran column even with a balanced game. Solar, Dark, ByuL and Rogue? Would you really put them on par with Maru, Innovation and Flash (and others imo, but I'll just mention those 3 since those aren't debatable ;D)? Only Soulkey has proven himself top class.
Serious? Solar outdid Soulkey in results this year. He deserves to be considered a top-tier Zerg.
As for Dark, ByuL, and Rogue, they're all likely candidates to be breakout Zergs in the near future.
I'm actually not disappointed in the challenger league Zerg lineup at all. All of the best Zergs qualified minus soO and DRG. Leenock is the only surprise.
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On December 11 2014 23:29 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2014 19:06 ZenithM wrote:On December 11 2014 18:48 deacon.frost wrote:
Yay, SSL turning into TvT league. But why to care, Terrans are just better, right?
Well, at least I can skip the league.
Edit>(also the qualified zerg column is just ridiculous) Funny thing is, the qualified zergs have no chance against more than half of the Terran column even with a balanced game. Solar, Dark, ByuL and Rogue? Would you really put them on par with Maru, Innovation and Flash (and others imo, but I'll just mention those 3 since those aren't debatable ;D)? Only Soulkey has proven himself top class. Serious? Solar outdid Soulkey in results this year. He deserves to be considered a top-tier Zerg. As for Dark, ByuL, and Rogue, they're all likely candidates to be breakout Zergs in the near future. I'm actually not disappointed in the challenger league Zerg lineup at all. All of the best Zergs qualified minus soO and DRG. Leenock is the only surprise.
I agree, Solar should be (and IMHO deserves to be) considered as a top-tier Zerg.
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On December 11 2014 21:50 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2014 21:04 Nebuchad wrote:On December 11 2014 18:48 deacon.frost wrote:
Yay, SSL turning into TvT league. But why to care, Terrans are just better, right?
Well, at least I can skip the league.
Edit>(also the qualified zerg column is just ridiculous) 12/10/6 isn't TvT league, what's up with the random hyperbole? If anything, it points in the direction of Blizzard's premise: "zerg is a little too weak", and it continues to make their conclusion of 'let's offer a TvP patch' senseless. When I was writing it it was 8/11/5(6), so at that time it was turning into TvT league. So... yeah. This.
yeah man...thats such a tvt league...almost like 16/3/13 in GSL S1 this year right? ... ugh, gimme a break with this whining...in 2012 it was normal to have a lot of terrans in gsl and nobody was crying. not to mention these guys with the exception of like two players are the best players in the world. [and before u start ...yes i would gladly switch terminator or yonghwa for zest, rain or sos to have the best Ps there as well...too bad theyve lost against zergs and protosses ..terran imba right?] and ppl can say whatever they want about mirror matchups but tvt has always been considered better than zvz or pvp.
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EPT
