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United Kingdom10443 Posts
I don't have a problem with how the money was distributed.
There was a set amount of expenditure that was all played really promptly ( a rarity in esports ) and then Destiny took a perfectly reasonable amount of money for himself.
With regards to the Kespa thing, I think the Kepsa contact's email was perfectly reasonable. Kespa is the biggest brand in SC2 right now and they want to be careful with how that brand is perceived. It sucks for the players that they couldn't get a bit of extra prize money but if somehow the Kespa brand had been negatively effected by this tournament ( a posssible risk) then it would have effected the Kespa players in the long run.
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This is pretty great! I couldn't tune in to the finals, but it felt like you put a lot of professional work into this tournament. I'll try to donate money if I can, but that might prove difficult.
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Saying "Destiny did only 6 days of work..." is like saying "Innovation only did 6 days of work..." Neither of them did. Innovation has been spending years of his life training to be a competitor. Destiny has been spending years of his life turning his name into a brand that at least 10,000 people (probably a lot more since they hit 22k on his stream alone) said, "Lets watch Destiny cast a tournament!"
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Two points that I want to chime in on:
Kespa - I think that in the future inviting Kespa players is the right thing to do. Kespa's reply to Destiny in my opinion displays their complete obliviousness to the non-Korean StarCraft scene. They have a ton to gain from sending players to this. In all honesty I watched maybe 5 non-playoff Proleague games since EG-TL decided not to participate because I don't really care about the players. The Korean's I know and love are Hero, Polt, MC, Innovation, Bomber, etc because I get to see them play at every tournament and root both for and against them. Kespa has the chance to build the brand of unknown players and draw in viewers for their own league. It doesn't even have to be A-List players like Flash - send Shine, Trust, or Salvation and grow the viewership for games outside of the ones where SKT or KT are playing. Not to mention MAKE YOUR PLAYERS SOME MONEY. Its ridiculous that in 2014 a player like MC is going to out-earn probably 95% of the Kespa players.
Destiny's Fee - 1800 is insanely low for the amount of work he put into this and use of his personal brand. A full week's worth of casting alone is probably worth 1800 not to mention the setup and prep work that went into it. The good news for anyone that disagrees is that if you donated and didn't like the fee, you have the chance to not donate to the next event. My prediction however is that donations will only go up from here.
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Destiny, the one thing I didn't like about your website hosting twitch is that it cannot access VODS very easily.
Every time I missed a Destiny I stream, I had to go to twitch.com, type destiny, choose Steven Bonnell to access the VODS.
The VOD strip at the bottom is hard to manipulate, such as scroll to older videos. Would you please fix this?
Of course, I am talking about the instance where the VOD has not been uploaded to youtube yet but still remain on the twitch server.
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I think you did a great job, getting this together was no easy feat and overall the tournament feels like it went pretty well and we've all seen how they sometimes do not. I totally understand why it is that you feel reluctant to reach out to Kespa again as I would similarly feel slighted in such a situation. I wasn't in the BW scene back in the day so I was not witness to their prior intransigence, but from what I heard, this is not unsurprising of them to do. Ultimately, the question to ask yourself is who it is you are doing this tournament for and that means players and fans. This will mean having to go through Kespa again. I hope that we can see some additional professional co-casting in the future to further spice up the stream.
I really didn't expect this out of Destiny 1, thanks for all your work.
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Great job on the competition Destiny  Would love to see another competition from you.
Now about the KeSPA issue, if it makes you feel better even WEC (which would look like a much larger competition) got rejected by KeSPA too. Maybe they were overly cautious, but then after your immense success on the first one they wouldn't mind sending players over for the second round.
Also, Chudd also asked "what would KeSPA's benefit be for sending players?" I think you can achieve this by having Korean streams, similar to what Totalbiscuit did with his Shoutcraft. If you have some great (and popular) KeSPA players playing in the competition, I think it would be possible to reach out to the Korean audience.
Lastly, about crowdfunding. I honestly feel that it would be better to have a larger scale competition with larger prize pool, even if that means finding sponsors and running ads. I think its worth the trade off, and larger prize pool would attract more players. With your success on your first competition it should be much easier to find sponsors. But this is my opinion, some people might want to keep it as a crowdfunding competition.
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Thanks for this. It's really refreshing to see so much transparency in tournament organization.
gj Destiny
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Thank you. Really enjoyed it!
The casting with ToD & iNcontrol both were ridonkulous funny!
Those woodwatchers... HAHAHA
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As someone who has never been a fan of Destiny I was very please with this tournament. The games were pretty good, casting was fun and watching him try to trouble shoot was entertaining in itself.
I'm very impressed with the transparency and look forward to the next tourney.
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On August 12 2014 01:10 Doomhunter wrote:
Two points that I want to chime in on:
Kespa - I think that in the future inviting Kespa players is the right thing to do. Kespa's reply to Destiny in my opinion displays their complete obliviousness to the non-Korean StarCraft scene. They have a ton to gain from sending players to this. In all honesty I watched maybe 5 non-playoff Proleague games since EG-TL decided not to participate because I don't really care about the players. The Korean's I know and love are Hero, Polt, MC, Innovation, Bomber, etc because I get to see them play at every tournament and root both for and against them. Kespa has the chance to build the brand of unknown players and draw in viewers for their own league. It doesn't even have to be A-List players like Flash - send Shine, Trust, or Salvation and grow the viewership for games outside of the ones where SKT or KT are playing. Not to mention MAKE YOUR PLAYERS SOME MONEY. Its ridiculous that in 2014 a player like MC is going to out-earn probably 95% of the Kespa players.
Destiny's Fee - 1800 is insanely low for the amount of work he put into this and use of his personal brand. A full week's worth of casting alone is probably worth 1800 not to mention the setup and prep work that went into it. The good news for anyone that disagrees is that if you donated and didn't like the fee, you have the chance to not donate to the next event. My prediction however is that donations will only go up from here.
Kespa will always be Kespa, not to begin an ethnic discussion but korean business principles seem to differ compared to NA. They are very stingie with how they handle things and tend to be very filtered, and to a certain extent getting to a point of committal takes longer.
Def agree with 1800 being insanely low. Majority of people do not understand the amount of planning, coordination, prep, and actual time put into this type of an event. Tough to put an exact number, but a lot of people who have to do way way less than what Steven did, make more.
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this is great... didn't expected to be this much...
good luck and more power~
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On August 12 2014 00:37 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 00:03 Jimmeh wrote:On August 11 2014 23:55 Crot4le wrote:
I think if you're being funded by community in choosing crowdfunding then your 'take home' pay should merely paying your expenses and organisational and casting fee. After you have compensated yourself for the time, I think all profit should then be put towards the next tournament since it's on the back of donations that you have made that profit.
But that's just how I feel. Agreed with this 100%. $1800 for 6 days work (and however long it took him to invite a 8 players and contact the 8 ladder qualifiers) seems a bit of a joke. What? He did far more than 6 days of work for this event and oh by the way, he has to eat and provide for his own family as well. Successful business enterprises do not run to break even. They run to generate a profit. If he breaks even or loses money, we don't get another tournament. Great event all around.
Money is always subjective. I'd abstract it to 2000 for two weeks of work so almost 50000 per year. On average that's a fortune where I live but considering where he lives and the frequency of the event it's probably just ok.
On August 12 2014 00:59 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 00:56 Kimb3r wrote:I was able to raise $1,800 from sponsorships for this event. Since the tournament was fully funded via the Indiegogo, this is money that I can essentially pocket as my "take home" pay for organizing/casting the tournament. You let the viewers pay and go home with the sponsorship money. I think you should have mentioned that before fundraising, I would definitely be pissed, would I have had donated money for this event. Why? I raised $5,500 via Indiegogo and said I would put it all towards the tournament. I did. All of the money's been paid out. What on earth could you possibly be mad about?
Other people had their fees fixed and laid out in advance. On one hand pocketing the sponsorship money is a motivation for you to get more sponsors, on the other hand the publicity of the event and the event in general should in part pay for the next one. People would be ok if you included your fee in the original funding plan.
As far as next time I’d add a couple of perks that include your personal subscription as a percentage. You could offer people who want to donate some value and derive your pay from the percentage (or risk it and pay yourself a fixed amount similarly to the casters). As far as sponsors go I see no reason why not just include a sponsor perk tiers. You get to set it high enough to make it exclusive, limit the number to prevent any stream clutter and it would take the load off of the people who donate smaller amounts. The overflow money can go towards emergencies like TB’s and Naruto’s work and to the next tournament.
Minigun wasn’t a very good choice as a caster, other than that casters were great and the tournament was fun. In the group stage have 6 games played and only then look at the scores, no need to speculate beforehand.
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Be very careful about expanding your goals. A $10.000 indiegogo sounds doomed to fail. I am afraid that you benefited from a surge of affection, and hoping for twice that is a bit of a stretch
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On August 12 2014 00:55 Cinek357 wrote:We had Korean vs foreigner final. Some quite unknown players had a chance to show a good play too. It was perfect.
I don't know if I'm alone here, but I found the finals to be the weakest part of the tournament. Foreigner vs Korean in a bo9 wasn't pretty.
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1220 Posts
Regarding Kespa, you are most likely not the first person to try and teach them a lesson. I think they have proven pretty consistantly that they are learnresistent. I do not think it is your job to martyr yourself, let Blizzard fight that fight and I wont think any less of you for not trying what is not in your scope of power.
The Best for Kespa players, viewers and yourself is to just stay polite, keep smiling and hope they someday allow their kids to come to the cool kid's Birthday.
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As much as i don like Kespa's response, having kespas players will indeed heightened the epicness of your tourney.
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I do think that if you want to foster good relationships with KeSPA, posting their personal e-mail to you on a public forum, even if you refrain from cursing them out about it, isn't a very smart thing to do. If I were a KeSPA representative I'd think twice of negotiating entries for players into a tournament where the organizer may randomly decide to publicize the entire conversation to The Internet.
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EPT
