EPT"Destiny I" Financial Report - Page 6
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Ovid
United Kingdom948 Posts
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r691175002
249 Posts
The guy handing communications with you wasn't particularly diplomatic (in fact, he came across as a grade A tool), but his position was not unreasonable. The message should have been "Our players receive numerous invitations, and unfortunately we cannot accommodate them all. While I believe your tournament will be successful, please understand that it is difficult to favor a new online venture without any history. We would love to continue this discussion for any future Destiny tournaments." | ||
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tluu12
Canada35 Posts
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EJK
United States1302 Posts
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Crot4le
England2927 Posts
On August 12 2014 00:27 bLah. wrote: This is pretty ridiculous. EVERY tournament is funded by community. It just depends what payment model you choose. It can be sponsors (sponsors then expect increase in sales, they don't just look at "likes" and "tweets"), it can be kickstarter/indiegogo donations/perks model, or it can be completely behind a pay wall. No. Dreamhack, IEM and Red Bull isn't funded by the community. They are funded by sponsors. All profit they make they have to make through businesses. They don't get donations. I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing. At the end of the day we've had an awesome tournament so it's up to the people crowdfunding and I'm sure 95% of them are satisfied and will crowdfund again (I'm going to contribute the next one myself). I'm just saying I wouldn't take profit myself from something which is funded by donations. I'd compensate myself expenses And yes, I have done work for charitable organisations that I do commerically and get paid decent money for which took a lot of time and effort with no pay. Because there's a big difference. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On August 12 2014 00:30 Crot4le wrote: I don't really think this is a fair comparison. If you go down the crowdfunding route you are essential getting charity. There are many people who do work for charities especially media work, who if they did the same work commerically could expect huge pay for it, but they don't because they are doing charity work. If he was organising a Dreamhack or going down the sponsor avenue then fair play if you can make a profit off your own back then knock yourself out well-played. But if you go down the donations from the community route then you should be compensated somewhat for your time but after that But as I said that's just how I feel. And I believe this his how it has been for people like BaseTradeTV (who I think sometimes actually make a loss even!), feardragon64, Wardii, and the OlimoLeague who have all reached out to the community for support. Wait he didn't take a single cent from the crowdfunding though and the extra 500 bucks go to the next tournament. The money he made came from the sponsor avenue, which, as you said yourself, is fine. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
I didn't personally contribute to this one but I probably will for the next one. | ||
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Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
On August 12 2014 00:03 Jimmeh wrote: Agreed with this 100%. $1800 for 6 days work (and however long it took him to invite a 8 players and contact the 8 ladder qualifiers) seems a bit of a joke. What? He did far more than 6 days of work for this event and oh by the way, he has to eat and provide for his own family as well. Successful business enterprises do not run to break even. They run to generate a profit. If he breaks even or loses money, we don't get another tournament. Great event all around. | ||
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ThorPool
Panama145 Posts
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
First off, Kespa. I think that they certainly don't seem to opening their arms towards Destiny, however they certainly aren't telling him to fuck off either. Destiny I was hosting during the same week as PL finals, something immensely important for Kespa I'd imagine. Furthemore, there are several variables that Kespa wasn't sure about, so they decided to "wait and see", I think. I mean, they have control/responsibility over a good portion of the world's top class players, do they really want to "let" these players stay up until 3 AM just to lose maps to a foreigner's 2 gate-proxy in latency? What's in it for Kespa? Even though they might have been snarky in their first response, I think there's nothing to lose and everything to gain by asking them to participate in Destiny II. Not just because we'll get world class players, but also because it's forging ties between Korea's esports scene and the foreign one. Kespa should realize that capturing the foreign scene could be very beneficial to them, it's up to the big figures of the foreign community to make them realize that, I think. It has to be win-win, not "win for me, it's not like you're losing anything anyway". Maybe even some "free" plugging towards THEIR sponsors? I think the fact that this was an online tournament also possibly turned off Kespa. Latency is a biggish issue here, I'm not sure how bad the latency is from NA to KR, but if you have several observers in the game, well, meh. EU to KR is unplayable by the way. I'm pretty sure we'll aware that latency played its role in some of the games, which is already a big alarm bell ringing in my opinion. If possible, perhaps have one observer (like it's done in KR) and use teamviewer or something to limit latency issues? I feel that the problems that arise when you're playing an online tournament might have also served to turn off Kespa. It can hurt the feel of the tournament artwork to integrate logos and branding. You can be somewhat restricted on content depending on what sponsors you have. Awkward scenarios can arise where you're promoting brands/sponsors of a tournament that conflict with other players' teams and potential casters. Would iNcontroL have been able to cast in my tournament if Red Bull was a main sponsor? I'm not sure if I agree with this, maybe the last point has some weight to it. SPL and GSL integrate logos and branding and they pull it off flawlessly. I think the biggest argument against the use of sponsors is crowd-funding actually. If you can pull off crowd-funding, then you have no need for sponsors. Channel-plugging, streamer-plugging. Idk, some thoughts I had. | ||
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paddyz
Ireland628 Posts
2: Imo it would seem a bit unfair on the community if you were to expect them to completely fund another tournament and not bother looking for sponsorships. 3: Your reaction to KESPA seems quite petty. You could only gain by them competing in your tournament while they are forced to play with lag and risk losing in front of lots of people to players they possibly regard as weak. Maybe his/her wording was a bit offensive but (s)he did say (s)he was being frank. Personally I would like to see KESPA players in your next tournament. 4: Thank you for running such an enjoyable tournament. I watched every game and I am very grateful. Props for the financial transparency and all the effort you put in. | ||
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Capped
United Kingdom7236 Posts
On August 11 2014 23:55 Crot4le wrote: I think if you're being funded by community in choosing crowdfunding then your 'take home' pay should merely paying your expenses and organisational and casting fee. After you have compensated yourself for the time, I think all profit should then be put towards the next tournament since it's on the back of donations that you have made that profit. But that's just how I feel. The way i read it was that every penny from the crowdfunding was poured into the tournament fee's with nothing given to destiny himself. The money he "took" ($1,800) was from sponsors. Sponsor's he didn't actually need to pay for the tournament. I don't see a problem with him accepting sponsors to create his own income. At the end of the day everybody wins. All the money people crowdfunded was used specifically for the tournament. Since destiny is using his own "brand" and running everything himself he's entitled to accepting / taking on sponsors despite not needing them for funding, he's the boss. Sponsors get exposure from the tournament. Anything agreed between destiny / sponsors is their business, since all the promises from the crowdfunding were achieved and has nothing to do with it. At the end of the day - Destiny promised to use the crowdfunding money to run a tournament. He did exactly that and created his own income at nobody elses downfall through offering sponsors exposure. | ||
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Destiny
United States280 Posts
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FLORIDACOMPACT
Germany108 Posts
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On August 12 2014 00:29 SatedSC2 wrote: On the KeSPA topic, I find it ridiculous that it isn't up to the players to decide what tournaments they do/don't want to play in. Especially when those tournaments are online. It seems strange that KeSPA have such strong control over what those players can/can't do... It is not ridiculous. Kespa is made out of the corporate sponsor representatives. So they are made out of people who work for SKT, for KT, CJ, JinAir, Samsung etc. The sole reason why these SC2 teams are existing, is to promote the brand of their respective teams. They (as in sponsors) couldn't care less about tournaments with few thousand dollars of winnings. What they want, is to promote their brand. But the thing is - if you are a part of something that goes wrong, your brand is recognized in relation to that - that's probably the biggest reason why BW died in Korea, no corporation wanted to be recognized in relation with something like the match-fixing scandal. That's why they are careful where they send their players - they need to be sure that the reaction will be positive for their brand. And let's face the truth - Destiny with his dickpics, BM etc really is not a pinnacle of positiveness for them. | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On August 12 2014 00:37 Hot_Bid wrote: I think the transparency is really nice. I wonder why anyone thinks that $1,800 is too much for the amount of work Destiny put in. He deserved it. I didn't personally contribute to this one but I probably will for the next one. This community thinks making a buck from anything in esports is morally wrong. | ||
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Bout2plucku
United States63 Posts
On August 12 2014 00:02 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I liked this event a lot, and I definitely think KeSPA are ridiculously overbearing when it comes to micro-managing their players... That being said: I really don't see anything wrong with them saying "We dont have anything to go by in terms of previous work from you, so we will make our decision based on how you do with this event". I can see the logic in their decisions, kind of... it just feels like they are acting as if they were representing, I dont know, NFL athletes or something. I think it also may be a cultural thing. I am going to attempt to keep this short. A former IBM employee, Geert Hofstede gathered a lot of data about different countries cultures (through polling IBM employees, initially) and built "Cultural Dimensions" out of them. The dimension that applies to this case is "Uncertainty Avoidance," which has the USA (Destiny's country) at a score of 46 and South Korea at 85. http://geert-hofstede.com/united-states.html states about uncertainty avoidance: "The dimension Uncertainty Avoidance has to do with the way that a society deals with the fact that the future can never be known: should we try to control the future or just let it happen? This ambiguity brings with it anxiety and different cultures have learnt to deal with this anxiety in different ways. The extent to which the members of a culture feel threatened by ambiguous or unknown situations and have created beliefs and institutions that try to avoid these is reflected in the UAI score. "The US scores below average, with a low score of 46, on the Uncertainty Avoidance dimension. . As a consequence, the perceived context in which Americans find themselves will impact their behaviour more than if the culture would have either scored higher or lower. Thus, this cultural pattern reflects itself as follows: "There is a fair degree of acceptance for new ideas, innovative products and a willingness to try something new or different, whether it pertains to technology, business practices or food. Americans tend to be more tolerant of ideas or opinions from anyone and allow the freedom of expression. At the same time, Americans do not require a lot of rules and are less emotionally expressive than higher-scoring cultures." So, Destiny shouldn't take it personally that South Koreans (in general) tend to avoid new situations like this. But, maybe KeSPA are jerks, too. tl;dr: South Koreans avoid uncertain situations more so than Americans. Understanding culture can be fun. KeSPA might still be jerks. | ||
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
talk about being full of yourself, why would kespa send their players to this 1st time tournament? that's like me running a 1st time basketball tournament in buttfuck nowhere and then complaining why NBA wont send their players when i ask nicely. | ||
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