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On August 12 2014 00:03 Jimmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2014 23:55 Crot4le wrote:
I think if you're being funded by community in choosing crowdfunding then your 'take home' pay should merely paying your expenses and organisational and casting fee. After you have compensated yourself for the time, I think all profit should then be put towards the next tournament since it's on the back of donations that you have made that profit.
But that's just how I feel. Agreed with this 100%. $1800 for 6 days work (and however long it took him to invite a 8 players and contact the 8 ladder qualifiers) seems a bit of a joke.
He raised funding, organized, promoted, and ran the tournament. $300 a day (if he worked 6 days office hours, which is obviously not the case) for that much responsibility in any entertainment/media field is nothing.
Maybe you should have picked a better major.
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On August 12 2014 00:03 Jimmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2014 23:55 Crot4le wrote:
I think if you're being funded by community in choosing crowdfunding then your 'take home' pay should merely paying your expenses and organisational and casting fee. After you have compensated yourself for the time, I think all profit should then be put towards the next tournament since it's on the back of donations that you have made that profit.
But that's just how I feel. Agreed with this 100%. $1800 for 6 days work (and however long it took him to invite a 8 players and contact the 8 ladder qualifiers) seems a bit of a joke.
You are gravely underestimating the amount of work that goes into something like this. You can have opinion on whether his salary was justified and that's fine, but uou are completely off the mark with your comments on the amount of time and energy you have to put into something like this.
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On August 12 2014 00:05 Faust852 wrote:
Yeah gogo for Destiny II !
And don't invite Kespa, they went full assholes and tbf except a bunch that will anyway never play (Flash I'm look at you), non-kespa players like Taeja, Innovation or Jeadong are more popular, so they'll bring more viewers.
And even if he plays, you sure he will allow you to cast his games? 
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On August 12 2014 00:03 Jimmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2014 23:55 Crot4le wrote:
I think if you're being funded by community in choosing crowdfunding then your 'take home' pay should merely paying your expenses and organisational and casting fee. After you have compensated yourself for the time, I think all profit should then be put towards the next tournament since it's on the back of donations that you have made that profit.
But that's just how I feel. Agreed with this 100%. $1800 for 6 days work (and however long it took him to invite a 8 players and contact the 8 ladder qualifiers) seems a bit of a joke.
seriously? $1800 is a *tiny* amount for him to take home for all his work. And I WAS one of the sponsors here. Would I have been upset if he had decided to put my money towards the next event? Of course not? Am I upset that he kept it as his pay? Hell no. He earned it.
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On August 11 2014 23:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Appreciate the transparency. Going forward regarding KeSPA players, I think it's a tough bind but in the end, refusing them to participate doesn't hurt KeSPA as much as its players, who usually already have few opportunities to show themselves outside of Proleague and the GSL. The players were not the ones that decided they didn't want to play until it was an established brand; those were the sponsors that the players really have no influence over.
I agree with this completely. You will be helping players gain popularity, not just Kespa. The community is made up of players hoping to gain fame and make money through tournament play. This will allow, not only Kespa, players to gain fame/recognition for going up against stronger opponents.
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On August 12 2014 00:03 Jimmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2014 23:55 Crot4le wrote:
I think if you're being funded by community in choosing crowdfunding then your 'take home' pay should merely paying your expenses and organisational and casting fee. After you have compensated yourself for the time, I think all profit should then be put towards the next tournament since it's on the back of donations that you have made that profit.
But that's just how I feel. Agreed with this 100%. $1800 for 6 days work (and however long it took him to invite a 8 players and contact the 8 ladder qualifiers) seems a bit of a joke.
Disagree with this 100%. Guy's gotta make a living, and he went through the trouble organizing all of it. I'm pretty sure he spent A LOT more than 6 days total on it.
Also, if other people in the community realize that money can be made off of things like this, hopefully more will be inclined to try it.
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Transparency is a good way to gain more visibility, good job!
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On August 12 2014 00:06 -Kaiser- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 00:03 Jimmeh wrote:On August 11 2014 23:55 Crot4le wrote:
I think if you're being funded by community in choosing crowdfunding then your 'take home' pay should merely paying your expenses and organisational and casting fee. After you have compensated yourself for the time, I think all profit should then be put towards the next tournament since it's on the back of donations that you have made that profit.
But that's just how I feel. Agreed with this 100%. $1800 for 6 days work (and however long it took him to invite a 8 players and contact the 8 ladder qualifiers) seems a bit of a joke. He raised funding, organized, promoted, and ran the tournament. $300 a day (if he worked 6 days office hours, which is obviously not the case) for that much responsibility in any entertainment/media field is nothing. Maybe you should have picked a better major.
Ouch.
But I agree that 1k8$/week isn't that much for the work done.
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I really wish I had been able to watch more of it. It seems like you put in a ton of effort Steven and I think you did a phenomenal job. KeSPA sucks for doing that to you (although I did still vote that you should include KeSPA players in your next tournament), but you were even more successful than you planned on being.
I definitely plan on checking out a lot of the vods when I have free time. I saw a lot of the games and there were some cool upsets. I hope that your next tournament is even more successful than Destiny I.
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While I've never been a huge Destiny fan in general I really enjoyed this tournament. I did not contribute to the Indigogo for the first but I could see myself kicking over $20 or so the next time around. I appreciate him integrating the foreign scene with the domestic NA ladder. It lead to some good results and some good games. Me, personally, I would let KeSPA players in if they're willing. I didn't want to contribute to the Indiegogo the first time because I had no idea what I was getting. Like I said I had no relationship with Destiny outside of his WoL persona which I hated. He has seemed to mature a touch since then and I would gladly contribute for Destiny II. Should I not be allowed to contribute as well because I was reluctant about how you'd manage your first tournament?
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On August 11 2014 23:53 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote:
How much money did you make from twitch streaming the tournament? Just curious =D
Although ad income from twitch are very low, I think he should've gotten a few hundred dollars.
I know someone who streams regularly with 500 viewers, and he gets around 70-120 dollars each month.
Destiny streamed with a lot of viewers for quite long periods so that's my estimate...
Also, I think it goes against twitch regulations to tell your twitch-ad income.
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I think KESPA's stance is somewhat reasonable. Yeah they didn't bring it in the nicest possible wya, but KESPA doesn't want to be your friend, they are a business.
For the next event I think you should try to get some KESPA players, but maybe ask something in return to? Just to get on a more even footing.
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On August 11 2014 23:43 Destiny wrote:KeSPAI was pretty disappointed with my interactions with KeSPA. Having their players for my tournament would have been a large bolster for viewership and support. It also could have lead to some potentially amazing games for me to cast as well. I'm trying to be very careful here in how I proceed with this because "2014 Destiny" is a Destiny who tries to maintain good relationships with every section of the community. If this was "2011/2012 Destiny", though, I would be absolutely roasting KeSPA for my interactions with them for this tournament. Curtesy of Chuddinater, my KeSPA contact This first tournament that I did had a decent amount of risk associated with it. I heavily integrated everything into my own brand, so if the tournament itself was a disaster it would reflect very poorly on me and I would have no one to shift the blame onto. I also crowd funded a majority of the event finances, so squandering the community's money would mean I'd have a hard time raising money for a second time and I'd also damage my reputation significantly in the community. For KeSPA to deny their players the ability to enter into an online tournament where they could potentially win money seems...strange, to me. I understand I have something to benefit here from using KeSPA players, but it's not like KeSPA was taking on any risk by having their players play in my event. If anything, it's just denying their players the ability to earn some extra money, something every gamer at a high level would like the opportunity to do. I also don't like that KeSPA expected me to take on 100% of the risk for the first tournament and then contact them later for a second of third one. If I take on all of the risk in producing and hosting the first tournament, without any help whatsoever from them, why would I let them into the next one...? It might come off as petty to some, but it seems a bit arrogant to tell someone you'll hop on board a project after they've laid out the entire framework themselves. I still have a lot of thinking to do on whether or not I'd want to bring KeSPA players into my next event. .
I think you were being incredibly naive to think that you could get KeSPA on board for your first event, with no proven track record, particularly on the weekend of the Proleague finals. KeSPA is a massive and powerful organisation which looks out for its players. You gotta prove yourself first before you can work with them. Do you really think TotalBiscuit would have been able to get players for SHOUTcraft Invitation #5 if it weren't for his experience and proven ability to successfully organise and cast online tournaments and the SHOUTcraft Clan Wars?
To be honest, Destiny. I think you nailed Destiny I. I think you did a fantastic job and I really enjoyed the tournament and the format. I also think you responded well to the stress of the situation brought by that asswipe posing as casters. So going forward I think you have proven yourself to some extent. Maybe not enough to fully convince KeSPA yet but who knows?
KeSPA's original reaction doesn't surprise me at all and I sincerely hope that your pride doesn't get in the way of you building positive and constructive links with KeSPA. I think if you continue what your doing then you could get KeSPA on board and that will only benefit your tournament, your brand and the community. Players like Zest, Flash, Maru, soO and Soulkey would do fucking amazingly for your tournament. Imagine if it was the Destiny II or Destiny III that we got to finally see Flash vs Jaedong for the first time in fucking ages? The hype would be through the roof.
Please Destiny, build bridges with KeSPA because I think it will be the benefit of all parties if you managed to get them on side.
Just to let you know that although I usually participate in crowdfunding projects, I didn't partake in the crowdfunding for Destiny I because I was uncertain how it was to pan out. I will certainly be contributing to Destiny II however.
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Awesome work, Destiny. Love the transparency, love the model, loved the tournament. Looking forward to Destiny II 
If you do make the second tournament prize pool worth more money, would you consider a slightly larger bracket (more players and games for more money, probably at the expense of a lot more of your time)?
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And the casting was hilarious too, it's rare that I watch a tournament for the casting only and Destiny I was one of them (and Innovation <3).
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On August 12 2014 00:03 Jimmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2014 23:55 Crot4le wrote:
I think if you're being funded by community in choosing crowdfunding then your 'take home' pay should merely paying your expenses and organisational and casting fee. After you have compensated yourself for the time, I think all profit should then be put towards the next tournament since it's on the back of donations that you have made that profit.
But that's just how I feel. Agreed with this 100%. $1800 for 6 days work (and however long it took him to invite a 8 players and contact the 8 ladder qualifiers) seems a bit of a joke.
where did u get "6 days of work" part, because making something with this kind of production value does not simply include you showing up at the event and casting. hell, ignore production, just with the perks system, he won't be done with it for weeks afterwards.
just because tournament is online doesnt mean you turn your pc on and cast, think before you write.
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As a non native english speaker :
Also to be frank, what would kespa's benefit be for sending player ?
Does the word "send" is generally used for an online event ?
It's just seems weird to me :/
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On August 12 2014 00:03 Jimmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2014 23:55 Crot4le wrote:
I think if you're being funded by community in choosing crowdfunding then your 'take home' pay should merely paying your expenses and organisational and casting fee. After you have compensated yourself for the time, I think all profit should then be put towards the next tournament since it's on the back of donations that you have made that profit.
But that's just how I feel. Agreed with this 100%. $1800 for 6 days work (and however long it took him to invite a 8 players and contact the 8 ladder qualifiers) seems a bit of a joke.
I don't think you get the amount of work that went into this tournament and how much money you'd make for this kind of work in other media/entertainment/sports areas.
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On August 12 2014 00:11 Dandy_Moustachu wrote:As a non native english speaker : Does the word "send" is generally used for an online event ? It's just seems weird to me :/
KeSPA views their players as part of their brand. I believe in KeSPA's eyes if they allow their players to enter and participate in any old tournament it dilutes the brand. I can't say I disagree with them. Tournaments get far more hype when KeSPA players are involved.
They're using send as participate. I can understand their usage of the word send.
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I think I'm a big fan of "2014 Destiny".
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/p7hr0Uy.png)
