EPTStudy: Players start slowing down at age 24 - Page 2
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KingFool
Canada428 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46720 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19400 Posts
On April 11 2014 08:50 CrushDog5 wrote: I would expect that everyone ages in exactly the same way as everyone else. Remember, though, that aging and experience are independent factors. You can get better with practice, even as you get slower with age. How can you say everyone ages in the same way? I've always been 3-4 behind in maturity. While I have always been intelligent, I didn't start thinking very independently till much later the most. I don't practice so lot, I just understand the game better now and decisions are much easier/quicker to make. | ||
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BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
It's a shame though, as others have said, it does seem that the data is just random ladder players. While interesting, it says nothing as to the "slowing down" of pro players. | ||
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StreetWise
United States594 Posts
On April 11 2014 08:07 SirPinky wrote: Interesting study. But don't you find it coincidental that 22-24 years of age is typically when people enter the workforce fulltime and reduce the amount of time they play games like Sc2. Furthermore, being less rigorous in their playstyle, they might decide to take a more relaxed approach to the game. The benchmark for me was around 23. I appreciate the time invested in the study, but don't you think it would be more beneficial to track the same group of individuals 18-30 years of age over, perhaps, a 3-5 year period to demonstrate a true cognitive motor decline? I know you might not have that luxury. But I think the psychological maturity and stage of life is really at the crux of this observation. I have no empiracal data to prove it, just a hunch. Thanks for the contribution. PS. I know I'm only one person but I started playing BW at 20 and now I'm 31. Even with very minor carpal tunnel in 1-hand I still have the same APM. Again, I think psychology is more involved in the study results, but that is my opinion. I think that this has a lot to do with it. I know that when I was young, my gaming sessions were uninterrupted. I have a family now, so even when I play I am constantly being interrupted, this in turn slows me down as I have to answer questions from the kids, or answer the phone etc. Plus I cant take the game as seriously because these interruptions would result in rage if I still did. Physically, I feel I peaked at 28, but thats athletics where a lot of people are trying to draw parallels. | ||
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knOxStarcraft
Canada422 Posts
On April 11 2014 08:44 CrushDog5 wrote: Let me take these in turn. 1. You might expect people to take a more relaxed approach, but speed decreases with age. I guess I find it strange that 30 is more relaxed than 25, and 35 is more relaxed that 30 and so on. We have no way to rule it out, but it doesn't seem like to me. 2. I don't think it's MORE beneficial (it can be difficult to parcel out the practice from the aging), but I do think it would be a useful complement to this study. We have some data that does basically that now, but it will take some time to sort through. 3. As you note, it is a sample of one. The findings we describe in the paper are measured in thousands of players. Nevertheless, APM changes with age AND with experience. As you get better, you get faster; as you get older, you get slower. They offset each other, so it doesn't surprise me that some people's APMs do not shift much and it looks like nothing is changing. The bad news is that older is slower, the good news is that you are probably getting better! 1. The LDL seems to increase more with age in the lower leagues than it does in higher leagues. Wouldn't there be the same rate of LDL increase with age in all leagues if it were purely because of the brain slowing down? Also, from 25 > the sample size looks to be decreasing, which makes what you can take from those results less reliable. I would argue that from 25 to 35 responsibilities are steadily increasing on average, though less so than they are from 20 to 25. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On April 11 2014 10:56 BuddhaMonk wrote: The question of wrist problems comes to mind. It could be that wrists are just not meant to do so much and you top out at a lower age than other physical sports. It's a shame though, as others have said, it does seem that the data is just random ladder players. While interesting, it says nothing as to the "slowing down" of pro players. I dare say most players don't do the proper exercises/stretches to maintain their wrists. | ||
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CrushDog5
Canada207 Posts
On April 11 2014 10:30 BisuDagger wrote: How can you say everyone ages in the same way? I've always been 3-4 behind in maturity. While I have always been intelligent, I didn't start thinking very independently till much later the most. I don't practice so lot, I just understand the game better now and decisions are much easier/quicker to make. That's actually a mistake. I meant to type that I would NOT expect everyone to age in exactly the same way, so in a sample of over 3000 players not every 35yr old will be slower that every 30 year old, even in the same league. | ||
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CrushDog5
Canada207 Posts
On April 11 2014 11:03 knOxStarcraft wrote: 1. The LDL seems to increase more with age in the lower leagues than it does in higher leagues. Wouldn't there be the same rate of LDL increase with age in all leagues if it were purely because of the brain slowing down? Also, from 25 > the sample size looks to be decreasing, which makes what you can take from those results less reliable. I would argue that from 25 to 35 responsibilities are steadily increasing on average, though less so than they are from 20 to 25. It doesn't though, not significantly. There is no interaction between age and league, which means that the affect of age is NOT influenced by skill. The sample size is, literally, 10 time larger than other studies of it's kind, at ages above 35. That's one of the nice things about dealing with replay data like this. I really don't see how having a day job steadily makes your reactions slower after 24. You could be right of course. That sounds like a great headline " Scientists discover that having a day job slows your cognitive-motor system: Thousands of people quit their jobs." It's an empirical question. You should do a study. | ||
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LingBlingBling
United States353 Posts
Our world functions on technology, sorry but if musicians can play at a high professional level until they are in their late 80s with a healthy brain, no way in hell a healthy 25 -35 year old is going to see a decrease in starcraft 2 performance at a professional level. Koreans stop around that age due to mandatory military service or real life priorities outside of their gaming career such as marriage ECT. If you don't take care of yourself, you will see health problems at a young age. Pro Koreans play sc2 +12 hours a day, of course some of them will see wrist problems. | ||
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Thaniri
1264 Posts
On April 11 2014 08:46 BisuDagger wrote: I have actually improved a ton recently. At 26 my typing dexterity and apm has greatly increased, but I'm also someone who matured late mentally too. How late? Were you learning algebra at 20 or something? Your APM/WPM has probably gone up from just practicing more honestly. | ||
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Trojanoz
Australia22 Posts
Some information 1) You cannot assume the reduction of players APM is due to a reduction in physical ability as others have pointed out practice time etc has an effect. 2) Also the study seems to be talking about reaction time. APM is not a measure of reaction time it is a measure of the speed something can be done at. I might be able to press a hundred keys a minute but how long will it take me to observe something and then react to it. That’s the real test of reaction time. 3) What this study shows is that speed not reaction time is less for older players of StarCraft 2 than younger players of StarCraft 2. You cannot draw any conclusion about reaction time nor can you conclude that a reduction in speed is due to an actually physiological cause (other factor may play a role). | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19400 Posts
On April 11 2014 12:07 Thaniri wrote: How late? Were you learning algebra at 20 or something? Your APM/WPM has probably gone up from just practicing more honestly. I don't practice nor play like I used to 4+ years ago. And I meant just behavioral maturity. My education has always been up to par. It's nothing major. And I guess most people say males are way behind in maturity years then females. I am just willing to admit that was true for me growing up. Now I feel like I'm caught up to the curb. | ||
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theMagus
578 Posts
 funny to see the relatively older people here vehemently deny getting slower with age though lol. i'm 30+ myself and i wouldn't dare claim to be as fast as i was in my 20s. it's just not true. i don't feel too bad about it though cause wisdom and experience more than make up for it  | ||
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Marcinko
South Africa1014 Posts
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felisconcolori
United States6169 Posts
On April 11 2014 12:48 Marcinko wrote: So what you're telling me is that at the ripe age of 31, I am pretty screwed? No, just that you wouldn't play as well now as you would have if you were younger. That said, if you have the skill, go for it. See if you can't get into WCS Europe, Americas, or hell... fly to Seoul and give Code B a shot. There are statistical outliers, always, so just because there are no great and amazing pro players over 30 doesn't mean you couldn't be one! (Just that, y'know, the odds are low. Lower than if you were doing it while you were 19.) (Also, apologies to Nestea - but he's been napping for the past year or so.) | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
The present study investigates age-related changes in cognitive motor performance through adolescence and adulthood in a complex real world task, the real-time strategy video game StarCraft 2. Haha, really? Sc2 has nothing to do with the real world, regarding both story and skills. | ||
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shivver
United States232 Posts
I'm not saying I'm against what the thread is saying, but obviously there are exceptions. | ||
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Glioburd
France1911 Posts
It may however influence on games like QuakeLive (maybe CS), where you need insane reflexes. | ||
Waxangel
United States33715 Posts
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