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Study: Players start slowing down at age 24 - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
192 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 Next All
SelimSC
Profile Joined March 2014
Turkey39 Posts
April 13 2014 04:26 GMT
#141
Hyun continues to defy all logic.
Life always finds a way.
lessQQmorePEWPEW
Profile Joined November 2011
Jamaica921 Posts
April 13 2014 05:25 GMT
#142
LOL what a bs study
Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly - Bob Marley
roythereaper
Profile Joined April 2013
Canada4 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-13 07:32:26
April 13 2014 07:31 GMT
#143
maartendq
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Belgium3115 Posts
April 13 2014 08:20 GMT
#144
On April 12 2014 12:07 Havik_ wrote:
I'll never accept that age is an excuse for being bad at the game or not producing results. You have players in the NFL that are in their late 30's, you have powerlifters in their 40's and 50's. Not to mention people like Jack Lalanne who are able to remain physically active into their 90's until they drop dead. You're telling me people are capable of all that, but can't play games optimally past age 24? Lol.. just lol. Not buying it.

Those powerlifters in their forties and fifties will have to put in far more effort to reach a certain level than a twenty-year-old will. At an older age people generally have more important things to worry about than how fast and how strong they are too. Priorities and interests change as you get older. You get a partner, a job, a place of your own, kids maybe ... I think the main reason why so many progamers 'retire' around 25-26 is that they start to realise that they won't be able to do this for all of their lives. Many of them skipped higher education degrees just to become as good as they are, but the word "progamer" doesn't mean anything on your CV. On the contrary, where I'm from they'd probably ask you if you had nothing better to do than play video games all the time. Look at Boxer: a brood war legend, managed to make some money off of his BW fame in SC2 but now he plays poker for a living (if I'm not mistaken). Is he really gonna rely on gambling to finance the coming 40-50 years of his life?

This is why I really respect Stephano and Thorzain. These guys realised that, and got out while they still could (admittedly after having raked in a lot of prize money).
Chutoro
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand95 Posts
April 13 2014 10:22 GMT
#145
On April 12 2014 13:18 Knowerz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2014 13:03 Chutoro wrote:
Correlation is not causation - to give one example, there is a fairly close correlation between the number of priests in a community and the total liquor consumption (10 points if you can say why).



Ooh, I'll try.

More liquor has more people in rehab/programs has more priests?


Wrong. Although number of people in rehab programs would probably be pretty closely correlated as well.

The answer is that they are all proportional to population number - so larger communities have more priests, more total liquor consumption and more of a lot of other things. Population number is an example of a hidden variable - if X and Y both depend on Z, but you're only measuring X and Y and have forgotten that Z exists, then it can be tempting to conclude that X causes Y or vice versa. In reality X and Y may be completely unrelated, and just appear closely related because of the hidden variable.

kaluro
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands760 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-13 10:46:25
April 13 2014 10:44 GMT
#146
On April 11 2014 11:26 CrushDog5 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2014 10:30 BisuDagger wrote:
On April 11 2014 08:50 CrushDog5 wrote:
On April 11 2014 08:46 BisuDagger wrote:
I have actually improved a ton recently. At 26 my typing dexterity and apm has greatly increased, but I'm also someone who matured late mentally too.


I would expect that everyone ages in exactly the same way as everyone else. Remember, though, that aging and experience are independent factors. You can get better with practice, even as you get slower with age.

How can you say everyone ages in the same way? I've always been 3-4 behind in maturity. While I have always been intelligent, I didn't start thinking very independently till much later the most. I don't practice so lot, I just understand the game better now and decisions are much easier/quicker to make.


That's actually a mistake. I meant to type that I would NOT expect everyone to age in exactly the same way, so in a sample of over 3000 players not every 35yr old will be slower that every 30 year old, even in the same league.


I'd say it's impossible to determine the factors in which older players decline.
- Getting a fulltime job
- Getting a fulltime relationship
- Getting children

Each of the above will seperately impact the free time you have to play/practice and will also (indirectly) adjust your mentality and approach at gaming, most likely. There's so many different factors that you really can't seriously link aging <-> speed.
For example, testosterone averagely peaks at your 24th till your 28th, at which a decline will happen, and you say that at the prime of a male (age 24), they start declining in cognitive abilities? Sounds off.

On April 12 2014 12:07 Havik_ wrote:
I'll never accept that age is an excuse for being bad at the game or not producing results. You have players in the NFL that are in their late 30's, you have powerlifters in their 40's and 50's. Not to mention people like Jack Lalanne who are able to remain physically active into their 90's until they drop dead. You're telling me people are capable of all that, but can't play games optimally past age 24? Lol.. just lol. Not buying it.


Muscle and strengths take years to build, bodybuilding/powerlifting is one of the sports, at which athletes get better by age.
You don't 'max out' on your muscle/strength potential till your mid/late 30s, since it's an ongoing process that takes literally years.
www.twitch.tv/kaluroo - 720p60fps - Remember the name! - Don't do your best, do whatever it takes.
trada
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany347 Posts
April 13 2014 15:51 GMT
#147
I'm 28.

BUT I'M STILL SHOOTIN. I'M STILL GETTIN THE HEADSHOTS, ITS LIKE BOOM HEADSHOT, BOOM HEADSHOT, BOOM HEADSHOOOOOOT
~
CrushDog5
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada207 Posts
April 13 2014 17:22 GMT
#148
On April 12 2014 20:22 LastAergerer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2014 07:55 CrushDog5 wrote:
We find no evidence for the common belief expertise should attenuate domain-specific cognitive decline. Domain-specific response time declines appear to persist regardless of skill level. A second analysis of dual-task performance finds no evidence of a corresponding age-related decline. Finally, an exploratory analyses of other age-related differences suggests that older participants may have been compensating for a loss in response speed through the use of game mechanics that reduce cognitive load.


Dual-task performance could also contribute to increased and improved use of game mechanics that reduce cognitive load. Are you able to make a determination on the possibility that dual-task performance might actually improve as players get older?


The preponderance of evidence is that dual-task performance declines with age, which is why we thought to include workers made in the study. There is some evidence (which I'm a bit skeptical of) that suggests that playing some kinds of video games helps reduce some of the affects of aging. If that kind of effect were going on here, though, you would expect it to get larger as league increased (more experience, better dual task) and there fore we should see the affect of age on dual-task get smaller as league increases (i.e., there should be a age*league interaction). We don't find that, though.
SkillCraft.com - StarCraft + Science
RandomPlayer
Profile Joined April 2012
Russian Federation394 Posts
April 13 2014 17:33 GMT
#149
Im 24, this post just decreased my mood significantly. thanks... ((
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
April 13 2014 17:57 GMT
#150
I got way faster from 25 to 26. I call correlation/causation
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
TurboMaN
Profile Joined October 2005
Germany925 Posts
April 13 2014 18:43 GMT
#151
I'm 27 and I got faster too (~230 apm now) :D
Jank
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States308 Posts
April 13 2014 19:07 GMT
#152
Yeah this crap is total bs. Top ssbm melee players are getting up there in age and that game is a way better example of reflexes(reacting as fast as possible to whats on the screen) wheras sc2 is a lot more about raw speed/multitask. I wonder if this study took into account the amount of time players had time to practice or their total amount of time invested in the game. I don't care if you're 35, your only excuse for losing is that you didn't practice and focus hard enough.
"You don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day." - Michael Parenti
Rollora
Profile Joined February 2012
2450 Posts
April 13 2014 22:08 GMT
#153
On April 11 2014 08:50 CrushDog5 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2014 08:46 BisuDagger wrote:
I have actually improved a ton recently. At 26 my typing dexterity and apm has greatly increased, but I'm also someone who matured late mentally too.


I would expect that everyone ages in exactly the same way as everyone else. Remember, though, that aging and experience are independent factors. You can get better with practice, even as you get slower with age.

this is wrong.
Maturing and aging are different for each person. Also "experience" and how fast it is gained and how it is used is different for every person, depending on LOTS of things in your brain, education, society etc.
Rollora
Profile Joined February 2012
2450 Posts
April 13 2014 22:09 GMT
#154
On April 14 2014 02:57 aTnClouD wrote:
I got way faster from 25 to 26. I call correlation/causation

well you got faster but you sure didn't hit your ceiling before then
vult
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States9400 Posts
April 13 2014 23:42 GMT
#155
On April 14 2014 07:09 Rollora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2014 02:57 aTnClouD wrote:
I got way faster from 25 to 26. I call correlation/causation

well you got faster but you sure didn't hit your ceiling before then


That's like the most bullshit comeback to that I've ever heard haha.
I used to play random, but for you I play very specifically.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
April 14 2014 00:29 GMT
#156
My APM increased when I turned 27, therefore this study is BS!!1!!111111!!!one!!eleven!!!

- Teamliquid Logic
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
April 14 2014 01:17 GMT
#157
On April 14 2014 04:07 Jank wrote:
Yeah this crap is total bs. Top ssbm melee players are getting up there in age and that game is a way better example of reflexes(reacting as fast as possible to whats on the screen) wheras sc2 is a lot more about raw speed/multitask. I wonder if this study took into account the amount of time players had time to practice or their total amount of time invested in the game. I don't care if you're 35, your only excuse for losing is that you didn't practice and focus hard enough.


While I don't agree with the method surely it would be different from game to game. I mean take the ten plus years of history we've had with BW and all the analyzing we've done with it. Those statistics don't lie.

On April 13 2014 19:44 kaluro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2014 11:26 CrushDog5 wrote:
On April 11 2014 10:30 BisuDagger wrote:
On April 11 2014 08:50 CrushDog5 wrote:
On April 11 2014 08:46 BisuDagger wrote:
I have actually improved a ton recently. At 26 my typing dexterity and apm has greatly increased, but I'm also someone who matured late mentally too.


I would expect that everyone ages in exactly the same way as everyone else. Remember, though, that aging and experience are independent factors. You can get better with practice, even as you get slower with age.

How can you say everyone ages in the same way? I've always been 3-4 behind in maturity. While I have always been intelligent, I didn't start thinking very independently till much later the most. I don't practice so lot, I just understand the game better now and decisions are much easier/quicker to make.


That's actually a mistake. I meant to type that I would NOT expect everyone to age in exactly the same way, so in a sample of over 3000 players not every 35yr old will be slower that every 30 year old, even in the same league.


I'd say it's impossible to determine the factors in which older players decline.
- Getting a fulltime job
- Getting a fulltime relationship
- Getting children

Each of the above will seperately impact the free time you have to play/practice and will also (indirectly) adjust your mentality and approach at gaming, most likely. There's so many different factors that you really can't seriously link aging <-> speed.
For example, testosterone averagely peaks at your 24th till your 28th, at which a decline will happen, and you say that at the prime of a male (age 24), they start declining in cognitive abilities? Sounds off.

Show nested quote +
On April 12 2014 12:07 Havik_ wrote:
I'll never accept that age is an excuse for being bad at the game or not producing results. You have players in the NFL that are in their late 30's, you have powerlifters in their 40's and 50's. Not to mention people like Jack Lalanne who are able to remain physically active into their 90's until they drop dead. You're telling me people are capable of all that, but can't play games optimally past age 24? Lol.. just lol. Not buying it.


Muscle and strengths take years to build, bodybuilding/powerlifting is one of the sports, at which athletes get better by age.
You don't 'max out' on your muscle/strength potential till your mid/late 30s, since it's an ongoing process that takes literally years.


It actually really isn't that impossible when we look at the Koreans who's full-time job was playing BW. Did some of them have girlfriends and play other things like WoW (cough)? Yep. We've seen the decline. SC2 is just more widespread where technically everyone can fall under the category as a "pro gamer," but that wasn't really what this study was all about. Maybe we should bring up those old bw threads. There's a reason why teams back then were trying to recruit young guns. Just saying.
EngrishTeacher
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Canada1109 Posts
April 14 2014 01:59 GMT
#158
Skimmed over the report and I have to agree that there are so many other exogenous variables that the report doesn't consider, which could all be just as important factors in the correlation between age and slowing down.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-14 05:53:06
April 14 2014 05:51 GMT
#159
On April 14 2014 10:17 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2014 04:07 Jank wrote:
Yeah this crap is total bs. Top ssbm melee players are getting up there in age and that game is a way better example of reflexes(reacting as fast as possible to whats on the screen) wheras sc2 is a lot more about raw speed/multitask. I wonder if this study took into account the amount of time players had time to practice or their total amount of time invested in the game. I don't care if you're 35, your only excuse for losing is that you didn't practice and focus hard enough.


While I don't agree with the method surely it would be different from game to game. I mean take the ten plus years of history we've had with BW and all the analyzing we've done with it. Those statistics don't lie.

Show nested quote +
On April 13 2014 19:44 kaluro wrote:
On April 11 2014 11:26 CrushDog5 wrote:
On April 11 2014 10:30 BisuDagger wrote:
On April 11 2014 08:50 CrushDog5 wrote:
On April 11 2014 08:46 BisuDagger wrote:
I have actually improved a ton recently. At 26 my typing dexterity and apm has greatly increased, but I'm also someone who matured late mentally too.


I would expect that everyone ages in exactly the same way as everyone else. Remember, though, that aging and experience are independent factors. You can get better with practice, even as you get slower with age.

How can you say everyone ages in the same way? I've always been 3-4 behind in maturity. While I have always been intelligent, I didn't start thinking very independently till much later the most. I don't practice so lot, I just understand the game better now and decisions are much easier/quicker to make.


That's actually a mistake. I meant to type that I would NOT expect everyone to age in exactly the same way, so in a sample of over 3000 players not every 35yr old will be slower that every 30 year old, even in the same league.


I'd say it's impossible to determine the factors in which older players decline.
- Getting a fulltime job
- Getting a fulltime relationship
- Getting children

Each of the above will seperately impact the free time you have to play/practice and will also (indirectly) adjust your mentality and approach at gaming, most likely. There's so many different factors that you really can't seriously link aging <-> speed.
For example, testosterone averagely peaks at your 24th till your 28th, at which a decline will happen, and you say that at the prime of a male (age 24), they start declining in cognitive abilities? Sounds off.

On April 12 2014 12:07 Havik_ wrote:
I'll never accept that age is an excuse for being bad at the game or not producing results. You have players in the NFL that are in their late 30's, you have powerlifters in their 40's and 50's. Not to mention people like Jack Lalanne who are able to remain physically active into their 90's until they drop dead. You're telling me people are capable of all that, but can't play games optimally past age 24? Lol.. just lol. Not buying it.


Muscle and strengths take years to build, bodybuilding/powerlifting is one of the sports, at which athletes get better by age.
You don't 'max out' on your muscle/strength potential till your mid/late 30s, since it's an ongoing process that takes literally years.


It actually really isn't that impossible when we look at the Koreans who's full-time job was playing BW. Did some of them have girlfriends and play other things like WoW (cough)? Yep. We've seen the decline. SC2 is just more widespread where technically everyone can fall under the category as a "pro gamer," but that wasn't really what this study was all about. Maybe we should bring up those old bw threads. There's a reason why teams back then were trying to recruit young guns. Just saying.


Exactly, nearly every rebuttal to this study is just purely anecdotal.

... when the best anecdotal evidence that exists is of all the older BW progamers who complained that their hands could no longer keep up with their minds and that they had to play strategic to compensate.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
stapla05
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia67 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-14 08:27:43
April 14 2014 07:32 GMT
#160
You do lose speed as you get older due to less motivation,brain functionabilty ,stress,sickness and time to play shortens slowing you down..But this can also be an avantage as you age you become more expericed and you will be out smart(use your experience) younger counterpart. It really can go both ways if you think about it.

From my experience im 23 turning 24 iv lost speed due to less motivation to play. But this could vary from person to person there are a lot of factor to consider. But you do lose speed as you age.
http://www.rts-sanctuary.com/Dawn-Of-War/showuser=96956
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