NaNiwa exited to a chorus of boos at IEM Katowice in what may have been the last series of his professional StarCraft 2 career. Prior to the tournament, the Swedish Protoss player had announced that he was taking an indefinitely long break from StarCraft 2, and said that he had barely played any games.
Facing Polt in the round of sixteen, NaNiwa attempted a proxy-gateway rush in Polt's natural expansion. Polt's SCV scouted out the attack, leading NaNiwa to say "xD so fun to play without soundproofing" before GG'ing out of the game. NaNiwa then went on to tweet "no soundproofing at IEM, dont see any point in playing this but wahtever, im done with this after these games xD."
(Seek to 22 minutes if it doesn't do so automatically)
The series did not reach game two as NaNiwa argued with a tournament administrator about an unspecified problem following game one. Unable to reach a resolution, NaNiwa forfeited the series. NaNiwa was showered with boos from the audience in Katowice as he packed his gear and departed to the backstage area, leaving Polt to perform an awkward winner's interview on stage.
The way he went about it was inappropriate, but if he could hear the crowd then he has a legitimate reason to be upset if then also the admin wouldn't hear his side of it.
On March 15 2014 01:26 Firkraag8 wrote: The way he went about it was very wrong, but if he could hear the crowd then he has a legitimate reason to be upset if also the admin wouldn't hear his side of it.
Naniwa bitches about every tournament, this is nothing new.
On March 14 2014 04:14 BisuDagger wrote: Since I can't watch games right now, would anyone be upset if Naniwa all in-ed with probes tomorrow for 3 games and got eliminated?
seriously though, if Naniwa seriously believes that his proxy was scouted due to lack of soundproofing, maybe someone could look into the issue eh? why is the crowd booing when they know nothing?
Nani has always been a controversial figure but he should have enough respect for the fans to give up his spot to someone else if this was his plan. He is a whiny baby and good riddance to him
Didn't really think Nani could top the probe rush business but this really takes the cake Kinda feel the same about Naniwa as Kanye West - a jerk, but you can't help but be impressed by his forthrightness
Also really funny it was in a series against Polt, too, who he's already had controversy with
if he not wanna play why he not forefit BEFORE then hasu could have played the tournament as 3rd in qualifiers ... stupid ... naniwa i rly liked him always but htis is worse then his proberush
Cant really see any team pick him up given that attitude, honestly this is worse PR and behavior than IdrA's forum post that eventually led to EG releasing him.
Good riddance. I used to be indifferent to Naniwa despite all the hate he received but now I just don't even like the guy anymore. He's been a total asshat one too many times for me.
Nani realizing he hates what the game has become and is going out the best way he can - by stirring up more drama and re-stating the issue that soundproofing still is not up to standards.
On March 15 2014 01:26 Firkraag8 wrote: The way he went about it was very wrong, but if he could hear the crowd then he has a legitimate reason to be upset if also the admin wouldn't hear his side of it.
Naniwa bitches about every tournament, this is nothing new.
He's very direct and goes about things inappropriately but would he lie about it? I'm not so sure. I think he heard the crowd and figured if he could hear it then Polt would as well.
On March 15 2014 01:26 Firkraag8 wrote: The way he went about it was very wrong, but if he could hear the crowd then he has a legitimate reason to be upset if also the admin wouldn't hear his side of it.
Naniwa bitches about every tournament, this is nothing new.
He's very direct and goes about things inappropriately but would he lie about it? I'm not so sure. I think he heard the crowd and figured if he could hear it then Polt would as well.
It's unfortunate really. That seed could have gone to the third place finisher of IEM New York. Hell, even a third player could have qualified from the Open Bracket if it really was short notice.
On the one hand, it was a dick move for Naniwa to throw it like this and waste that seed but on the other hand, I agree with everything he's said about the game's design and balance.
On March 15 2014 01:27 Teoita wrote: Pretty asshole move of him to forfeit like this and not give his spot to Hasu tbh
How does make him an asshole?
I agree that he went out in a shitty way, but if I were in his stead, I certainly wouldn't give up on my salary for attendance out of charity. He probably made more money this weekend than Hasu makes in a year.
And let's not delude ourselves thinking for a second that Hasuobs would have had any higher chance of taking a map from Polt than an apathetic Naniwa who forfeits after game one.
On March 15 2014 01:32 Hextor wrote: I feel bad for the wasted slot. Others would've been so grateful for this chance. The booing was well deserved.
I don't understand this line of reasoning. He earned the slot.
He...earned the slot.
Earned it.
I totally understand his falling out (I went through it to!) with SC2; and I'm glad that Naniwa has the balls to act according to his own impulses instead of holding on to something that he hates because others demand or expect it of him.
It's not a good riddance, it's a heartfelt goodbye to someone who is very often misunderstood. And...
On March 15 2014 01:27 Teoita wrote: Pretty asshole move of him to forfeit like this and not give his spot to Hasu tbh
How does make him an asshole?
I agree that he went out in a shitty way, but if I were in his stead, I certainly wouldn't give up on my salary for attendance out of charity. He probably made more money this weekend than Hasu makes in a year.
And let's not delude ourselves thinking for a second that Hasuobs would have had any higher chance of taking a map from Polt than an apathetic Naniwa who forfeits after game one.
Hasu has always been his little buddy anyway. Naniwa makes the decisions in that twosome.
Well I was hoping the no training was a ruse, but expected he would do a grand naniwa exit. But yeah sad ESL didn't let 3 through the open bracket, but guess it would have been to unfair.
On March 15 2014 01:32 Hextor wrote: I feel bad for the wasted slot. Others would've been so grateful for this chance. The booing was well deserved.
I don't understand this line of reasoning. He earned the slot.
He...earned the slot.
Earned it.
I totally understand his falling out (I went through it to!) with SC2; and I'm glad that Naniwa has the balls to act according to his own impulses instead of holding on to something that he hates because others demand or expect it of him.
It's not a good riddance, it's a heartfelt goodbye to someone who is very often misunderstood. And...
He earned the slot.
He earned the slot, didn't want to play but went anyway. Who cares if he earned it, he didn't deserve it as he has barely played in a month and was probably going to find a way to end the series fast no matter what. If soundproofing is such an issue, where are the other pros lining up to defend him?
Hmm.. considering that he hasn't played in a month and threw the tournament like that, imo it would be appropriate to not give out the last months sallary and kick him.
On March 15 2014 01:27 Teoita wrote: Pretty asshole move of him to forfeit like this and not give his spot to Hasu tbh
How does make him an asshole?
I agree that he went out in a shitty way, but if I were in his stead, I certainly wouldn't give up on my salary for attendance out of charity. He probably made more money this weekend than Hasu makes in a year.
And let's not delude ourselves thinking for a second that Hasuobs would have had any higher chance of taking a map from Polt than an apathetic Naniwa who forfeits after game one.
Hasu has always been his little buddy anyway. Naniwa makes the decisions in that twosome.
Hasuobs is older than Naniwa + there is no twosome, what are you talking about?
Naniwa got what he asked for, I won't miss him playing SC
Naniwa's behaviour has pretty much always been more than debatable. However, he showed a complete lack of respect to both his opponent and the public.
It was known that he was about to take a break from SC2, that he hadn't been playing SC2 for weeks and that he wasn't prepared for this tournament, but leaving right in the middle of the series with close to no explanation is a big middle finger to all the people who were still kinda supporting him.
Naniwa was a formidable player, probably the best foreigner out there if he had kept on playing seriously, and his frankness could be respected, despite whining a lot and being quite BM. But now that he showed he didn't respect anyone anymore, neither the viewers, nor the other players, nor the IEM staff, I wonder who's gonna keep supporting him anymore.
Anyway, farewell Naniwa, it's your right to stop playing if you don't like the game anymore. Still, you could have left without giving the middle finger to everybody.
It is obvious he didn't practice at all and when you get fucked because you can clearly her the audience is a shame.
I'm going to miss Naniwa he have clearly just been miserable in 2014 and I wont let that overshadow what he have done fort he foreign scene in his career.
On March 15 2014 01:27 Teoita wrote: Pretty asshole move of him to forfeit like this and not give his spot to Hasu tbh
How does make him an asshole?
I agree that he went out in a shitty way, but if I were in his stead, I certainly wouldn't give up on my salary for attendance out of charity. He probably made more money this weekend than Hasu makes in a year.
And let's not delude ourselves thinking for a second that Hasuobs would have had any higher chance of taking a map from Polt than an apathetic Naniwa who forfeits after game one.
Hasu has always been his little buddy anyway. Naniwa makes the decisions in that twosome.
Hasuobs is older than Naniwa + there is no twosome, what are you talking about?
Naniwa got what he asked for, I won't miss him playing SC
I guess beating MVP and Nestea while getting ro8 in GSL is just something anyone can do I guess?
It appears that Naniwa just does these controversial kinds of things on purpose, just to keep himself relevant within the scene... Negative publicity is publicity nonetheless....
On March 15 2014 01:27 Teoita wrote: Pretty asshole move of him to forfeit like this and not give his spot to Hasu tbh
How does make him an asshole?
I agree that he went out in a shitty way, but if I were in his stead, I certainly wouldn't give up on my salary for attendance out of charity. He probably made more money this weekend than Hasu makes in a year.
And let's not delude ourselves thinking for a second that Hasuobs would have had any higher chance of taking a map from Polt than an apathetic Naniwa who forfeits after game one.
Hasu has always been his little buddy anyway. Naniwa makes the decisions in that twosome.
Hasuobs is older than Naniwa + there is no twosome, what are you talking about?
Naniwa got what he asked for, I won't miss him playing SC
I guess beating MVP and Nestea while getting ro8 in GSL is just something anyone can do I guess?
The player that did that checked out months ago. The person on that stage was a child undeserving of respect.
On March 15 2014 01:27 Teoita wrote: Pretty asshole move of him to forfeit like this and not give his spot to Hasu tbh
How does make him an asshole?
I agree that he went out in a shitty way, but if I were in his stead, I certainly wouldn't give up on my salary for attendance out of charity. He probably made more money this weekend than Hasu makes in a year.
And let's not delude ourselves thinking for a second that Hasuobs would have had any higher chance of taking a map from Polt than an apathetic Naniwa who forfeits after game one.
Hasu has always been his little buddy anyway. Naniwa makes the decisions in that twosome.
Hasuobs is older than Naniwa + there is no twosome, what are you talking about?
Naniwa got what he asked for, I won't miss him playing SC
I guess beating MVP and Nestea while getting ro8 in GSL is just something anyone can do I guess?
The player that did that checked out months ago. The person on that stage was a child undeserving of respect.
Exactly what I was saying in my post on the other page. The Naniwa as of late, 2014 have been utterly miserable and I wont let that overshadow what he have done before that.
On March 15 2014 01:32 Hextor wrote: I feel bad for the wasted slot. Others would've been so grateful for this chance. The booing was well deserved.
I don't understand this line of reasoning. He earned the slot.
He...earned the slot.
Earned it.
I totally understand his falling out (I went through it to!) with SC2; and I'm glad that Naniwa has the balls to act according to his own impulses instead of holding on to something that he hates because others demand or expect it of him.
It's not a good riddance, it's a heartfelt goodbye to someone who is very often misunderstood. And...
He earned the slot.
He earned the slot, didn't want to play but went anyway. Who cares if he earned it, he didn't deserve it as he has barely played in a month and was probably going to find a way to end the series fast no matter what. If soundproofing is such an issue, where are the other pros lining up to defend him?
All of that is besides the point...Doesn't matter how much or how little he played... The concept of debating whether or not "someone deserves "it" is pointless. He earned that slot. How else is he there? It's not the open bracket, he got there because he won before...
What he did in the tourney...in the end a loss is a loss. Why try to hide that he wants to leave and just get it over with? The point is that he isn't acting beneath the lense of "what would everyone who is watching me want?" Because that actually doesn't matter in the slightest.
I don't know if you've noticed...but Naniwa does not play for anyone but himself. He played to win.
And now he doesn't feel like trying anymore. Would a genuine loss to Polt make you feel better? It's like 30 more minutes of time dude. It doesn't matter in the slightest.
And the booths? Who knows, it might be a genuine complaint...Naniwa for one doesn't give a shit.
Good to see this thread doesn't get that much attention. People grow tired of his shit over the years. But hey, at least he took a free hotel room, wasted a spot and everybodys time. A great day for him.
On March 15 2014 01:32 Hextor wrote: I feel bad for the wasted slot. Others would've been so grateful for this chance. The booing was well deserved.
I don't understand this line of reasoning. He earned the slot.
He...earned the slot.
Earned it.
I totally understand his falling out (I went through it to!) with SC2; and I'm glad that Naniwa has the balls to act according to his own impulses instead of holding on to something that he hates because others demand or expect it of him.
It's not a good riddance, it's a heartfelt goodbye to someone who is very often misunderstood. And...
He earned the slot.
He earned the slot, didn't want to play but went anyway. Who cares if he earned it, he didn't deserve it as he has barely played in a month and was probably going to find a way to end the series fast no matter what. If soundproofing is such an issue, where are the other pros lining up to defend him?
All of that is besides the point...Doesn't matter how much or how little he played... The concept of debating whether or not "someone deserves "it" is pointless. He earned that slot. How else is he there? It's not the open bracket, he got there because he won before...
What he did in the tourney...in the end a loss is a loss. Why try to hide that he wants to leave and just get it over with? The point is that he isn't acting beneath the lense of "what would everyone who is watching me want?" Because that actually doesn't matter in the slightest.
I don't know if you've noticed...but Naniwa does not play for anyone but himself. He played to win.
And now he doesn't feel like trying anymore. Would a genuine loss to Polt make you feel better? It's like 30 more minutes of time dude. It doesn't matter in the slightest.
And the booths? Who knows, it might be a genuine complaint...Naniwa for one doesn't give a shit.
Polt used the exact same SCV scouting path he used in IEM Cologne. The odds of a soundproofing issue tipping him off are slim to none.
I've always tried to see stuff like this from Naniwa's point of view. All his other stuff I've always been able to understand (exepct the probe pull incident, didn't like that). This is just too far though, he hasn't played a ladder game in over a month, hence the proxy strat (exactly the same 'over as quickly as possible BS we saw in his WCS group) and he actually blames the soundproofing? If you're going to do that don't announce to the world you're done with SC2 before the tournament.
All I can say is I'm completely indifferent to him leaving SC2. Many other pros have left/retired which I have been pretty torn up about, but with Naniwa I really just don't care.
On March 15 2014 01:56 Big-t wrote: WTF IEM is really not soundproof? Can´t believe there are still tournaments who can´t fix this problems :/ embarrassing...
Apparently they are, cf Kennigit. and players from the LoL pro where they have 6x the audience.
Honestly I hope this post doesn't get me banned because I love TL but seriously he is acting like an ungrateful pissant. Even if you felt like things were being heard giving polt an edge then alwel just play out the series for the people. Don't be such a douche and atleast play it out for the fans..... people did come to see good games played......
Honestly if he treats the rest of his life like this i'm sure his life will fall apart because he seems to have no drive , honor , or respect for anything or anyone....
On March 15 2014 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Wow, this reminds me of Zidane during the world cup...
At least Zidane did this for a reason, not because he was a crybaby.
Tarnishing decades of a distinguished career in the most important tournament in the world because someone called your mother a whore is kind of a cry baby attitude. Kick the shit into the guy when you're off the pitch
On March 15 2014 01:56 Big-t wrote: WTF IEM is really not soundproof? Can´t believe there are still tournaments who can´t fix this problems :/ embarrassing...
No booth is sound proof. Headphones are sound dampening, but nothing can block all incoming noise.
On March 15 2014 01:56 Big-t wrote: WTF IEM is really not soundproof? Can´t believe there are still tournaments who can´t fix this problems :/ embarrassing...
Ok, so was making mocking the fans and organisers stating how he didn’t practice, then tries to cheese his way out of a game and blames it on soundproofing? I hope he gets fined by both Alliance and IEM.
On March 15 2014 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Wow, this reminds me of Zidane during the world cup...
Whatever. That headbutt was epic!
I feel for Naniwa to an extent. There are problems with some of these major events, and they are well-known by players. They mostly affect all of them the same so you should play accordingly. It doesn't make sense that this sort of stuff should actually make decisions for you strategy-wise, but it does.
I'm just curious: do most of you that are crapping on his attitude actually recognize his skill? I personally believe that he is an amazing player (and not for a foreigner). I truly believe that if he could've gotten into proleague and made some magic happen within a year.
On March 15 2014 01:59 Zax19 wrote: Ok, so was making mocking the fans and organisers stating how he didn’t practice, then tries to cheese his way out of a game and blames it on soundproofing? I hope he gets fined by both Alliance and IEM.
rofl, he's giving IEM and Alliance exposure and this is eSports not real sports where people actually get punishments for doing stupid shit like this.
On March 15 2014 01:56 Big-t wrote: WTF IEM is really not soundproof? Can´t believe there are still tournaments who can´t fix this problems :/ embarrassing...
If it really was soundproofing, he was stupid to go proxy in a crowd that is well known for its great cheers. But I bet it wasn't a soundproofing issue. I'd love to have Polt's honest opinion on that.
Naniwa, please do not return to this game, ever.
Edit: just remove this from the news section, Naniwa doesn't deserve this exposure, seriously. It's like putting a car crash on a newspaper headline.
I wish he had played the series, lost 3-0 (most likely) and then in an interview saying that the booths aren't fully soundproof. Would have been a much classier way of going out, but Naniwa wasn't known for taking the classy way out.
On March 15 2014 01:59 Zax19 wrote: Ok, so was making mocking the fans and organisers stating how he didn’t practice, then tries to cheese his way out of a game and blames it on soundproofing? I hope he gets fined by both Alliance and IEM.
rofl, he's giving IEM and Alliance exposure and this is eSports not real sports where people actually get punishments for doing stupid shit like this.
I wouldn't say he's giving positive exposure to Alliance and his sponsors...
On March 15 2014 01:56 Big-t wrote: WTF IEM is really not soundproof? Can´t believe there are still tournaments who can´t fix this problems :/ embarrassing...
I remember when people got upset in a SLTV (8 i think) between Alliance and NaVi, NaVi killed some hero that was holding a gem, they seem to have forget it, but the crowd (that was obiously cheering for NaVi, the are ukranians at the end), yell "GEM" and Puppey (i think) picked it...
people actually got quite upset here in TL for that, and for a good reason, it wasnt a really big problem (the match wasnt going to be won by Alliance because of that) but still
What a disappointing, shitty way to end your career. An absolute self-destruct. I'll always respect his accomplishments and skills, but I can't respect him as a competitor.
On March 15 2014 01:59 Zax19 wrote: Ok, so was making mocking the fans and organisers stating how he didn’t practice, then tries to cheese his way out of a game and blames it on soundproofing? I hope he gets fined by both Alliance and IEM.
rofl, he's giving IEM and Alliance exposure and this is eSports not real sports where people actually get punishments for doing stupid shit like this.
I wouldn't say he's giving positive exposure to Alliance and his sponsors...
Never said it was positive, companies like this don't care about that as much as the views, ad revenue, etc.
On March 15 2014 01:27 Teoita wrote: Pretty asshole move of him to forfeit like this and not give his spot to Hasu tbh
How does make him an asshole?
I agree that he went out in a shitty way, but if I were in his stead, I certainly wouldn't give up on my salary for attendance out of charity. He probably made more money this weekend than Hasu makes in a year.
And let's not delude ourselves thinking for a second that Hasuobs would have had any higher chance of taking a map from Polt than an apathetic Naniwa who forfeits after game one.
It's people like you that make the community trash. Look at what you said, you are the epitome of human garbage.
On March 15 2014 01:32 Hextor wrote: I feel bad for the wasted slot. Others would've been so grateful for this chance. The booing was well deserved.
I don't understand this line of reasoning. He earned the slot.
He...earned the slot.
Earned it.
I totally understand his falling out (I went through it to!) with SC2; and I'm glad that Naniwa has the balls to act according to his own impulses instead of holding on to something that he hates because others demand or expect it of him.
It's not a good riddance, it's a heartfelt goodbye to someone who is very often misunderstood. And...
He earned the slot.
He earned the slot, didn't want to play but went anyway. Who cares if he earned it, he didn't deserve it as he has barely played in a month and was probably going to find a way to end the series fast no matter what. If soundproofing is such an issue, where are the other pros lining up to defend him?
All of that is besides the point...Doesn't matter how much or how little he played... The concept of debating whether or not "someone deserves "it" is pointless. He earned that slot. How else is he there? It's not the open bracket, he got there because he won before...
What he did in the tourney...in the end a loss is a loss. Why try to hide that he wants to leave and just get it over with? The point is that he isn't acting beneath the lense of "what would everyone who is watching me want?" Because that actually doesn't matter in the slightest.
I don't know if you've noticed...but Naniwa does not play for anyone but himself. He played to win.
And now he doesn't feel like trying anymore. Would a genuine loss to Polt make you feel better? It's like 30 more minutes of time dude. It doesn't matter in the slightest.
And the booths? Who knows, it might be a genuine complaint...Naniwa for one doesn't give a shit.
Polt used the exact same SCV scouting path he used in IEM Cologne. The odds of a soundproofing issue tipping him off are slim to none.
Only it seemed he went for reaper opening so u wont have to use scv for scouting. Not too slim when you think about it.
On March 15 2014 01:27 Teoita wrote: Pretty asshole move of him to forfeit like this and not give his spot to Hasu tbh
How does make him an asshole?
I agree that he went out in a shitty way, but if I were in his stead, I certainly wouldn't give up on my salary for attendance out of charity. He probably made more money this weekend than Hasu makes in a year.
And let's not delude ourselves thinking for a second that Hasuobs would have had any higher chance of taking a map from Polt than an apathetic Naniwa who forfeits after game one.
It's people like you that make the community trash. Look at what you said, you are the epitome of human garbage.
Really guys, as multiple people have stated on reddit and in the LR thread, even if the booth was not soundproof, that had nothing to do with what actually happened. Polt had already sent his SCV out to scout and did not change the pattern at all when the crowd started to make noise.
Rather than just quit he adresses problems atleast. ESL won't change the booths since everyone is unlegitimizing Naniwa and his claims. The players want the best scene more than anyone and the ones who dare to be vocal are being shot down.
He probably blamed the crowd, its happened before a few times during large crowds, cheese getting crowd sensed, he was already angry at the game obviously and wasn't having fun and was just doing this tournament because he felt some obligation. His forfeiting, he probably was going to probe rush or do that, I would rather see what he did instead.
Anyway Naniwa's pretty much retired, its interesting to compare Stephano with Naniwa, Stephano hated the game too but he broke ties with his fans in a respectful and happy way, its just a shame Naniwa might not get that chance.
On March 15 2014 01:56 Big-t wrote: WTF IEM is really not soundproof? Can´t believe there are still tournaments who can´t fix this problems :/ embarrassing...
Polt also used the same scouting pattern at IEM Cologne. It's a pretty normal thing for him.
Plus it is reasonable that Polt would expect some proxy bullshit from a guy who hadn't practiced in a month or so.
Good riddance to Naniwa. People say he's still better than IdrA when it comes to BM, but IdrA at least took some time to produce some content for the community (taking part in shows, writing articles, etc.). Nani's always been just a douchebag.
Haha Nani! I mean sorry to Hasuobs or whoever would have gotten his spot, but people in esports get so butthurt over nothing. Anyway, hope Polt beasts it up and wins!
On March 15 2014 01:32 Hextor wrote: I feel bad for the wasted slot. Others would've been so grateful for this chance. The booing was well deserved.
I don't understand this line of reasoning. He earned the slot.
He...earned the slot.
Earned it.
I totally understand his falling out (I went through it to!) with SC2; and I'm glad that Naniwa has the balls to act according to his own impulses instead of holding on to something that he hates because others demand or expect it of him.
It's not a good riddance, it's a heartfelt goodbye to someone who is very often misunderstood. And...
He earned the slot.
He earned the slot, didn't want to play but went anyway. Who cares if he earned it, he didn't deserve it as he has barely played in a month and was probably going to find a way to end the series fast no matter what. If soundproofing is such an issue, where are the other pros lining up to defend him?
All of that is besides the point...Doesn't matter how much or how little he played... The concept of debating whether or not "someone deserves "it" is pointless. He earned that slot. How else is he there? It's not the open bracket, he got there because he won before...
What he did in the tourney...in the end a loss is a loss. Why try to hide that he wants to leave and just get it over with? The point is that he isn't acting beneath the lense of "what would everyone who is watching me want?" Because that actually doesn't matter in the slightest.
I don't know if you've noticed...but Naniwa does not play for anyone but himself. He played to win.
And now he doesn't feel like trying anymore. Would a genuine loss to Polt make you feel better? It's like 30 more minutes of time dude. It doesn't matter in the slightest.
And the booths? Who knows, it might be a genuine complaint...Naniwa for one doesn't give a shit.
Polt used the exact same SCV scouting path he used in IEM Cologne. The odds of a soundproofing issue tipping him off are slim to none.
That's fine...Like I said (or didn't say) I didn't actually watch the games...I don't watch anything SC2 related anymore. But the point I'm trying to make, I guess, is that anyone who is complaining about missed opportunity and that Naniwa's a "waste of space," or "disgrace,"
A. Doesn't understand how seeding works. B. Doesn't understand Naniwa.
He has ALWAYS played for nobody but himself. What the fuck guys, don't expect him to start catering to the demands of the audience. At least he has the balls to do what he means to do and do it immediately instead of holding on and slowly dying (ahem)...
Who knows, he might come back. He might not. But I think the whines that it wasn't sportsmanlike are unwarranted. I mean, if you want to make a huff about that, okay...but just like Naniwa...it's just not worth the effort.
I hope Naniwa recovers. People who dislike him because of this were clearly never real fans of him. Naniwa was never one to play meaningless matches "to show good games". This is exactly the same reason why he probe rushed Nestea - his fate was sealed, so there was no reason to play out the matches. Personally I can only blame him for not forfeiting before the event.
People really should stop kicking him while he's down. Would playing two absolutely meaningless maps really make you feel any different? What's sickening is that a lot of the people who are saying these horrible things about Naniwa were surely going "HURR DURR KING IN THE NORTH" while he was winning.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
How anyone can keep defending him after all these incidents is baffling. Really need to step out of the fanboy state and you`ll see how this person is bad for any sports event. This isnt any online qualifier, i mean first the GSL then this?
I hope ESL bans him.
Oh ya, to the swede fans defending him. I think his actions is more of an insult to YOU than ESL or other viewers. You cheer him on to play sc2, not walk away like that. Just think about it.
Is a shame, for the past 2 years Naniwa was the best European tallent and skill.
That beeing said the guy that made it into GSL and made DH final and had great results (who practiced like a mad man and sacrificed his confort zone to go to KR for training) apparently hasn`t entered the year 2014.
The only thing I saw in Katowice today was Naniwah - someone who belives the other competing players don`t play in the same booths as he does, a guy who only came this weekend as a visitor who never had the will to win, a tourist.
PS : I hope he doesn`t quit and he remembers how he was 2 years ago.
poor NaNiwa's fans, they were so disrespected by him. Good player but seriously lacking in personality perspective. Hope he never comes back, he delivered so many negative emotions to the community.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
Kennigit checked with the LoL guys(with 6x the crowd), no issue. He checked with the other SC2 players, no issue. There was nothing Polt did implying he had been tipped off.
On March 15 2014 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Wow, this reminds me of Zidane during the world cup...
Pls don't insult our legend by comparing him to Naniwa :p
I don't think you can insult a monkey running after a ball by comparing him to someone who actually has to use his brain...
Naniwa continues to be Naniwa, and I highly doubt IEM will be his last competition. I give him half a year in a real job and he'll realize that playing vs swarm host is not the worst job you could have.
Good riddance. It's always antics with this guy. Shit attitude for any competitor. SC2 is better off without him, so indefinite might as well mean infinite.
That little prick bitch is going to go no where in life with all the complaining and quitting. There's a reason why they put the word "professional" in front of the word gamer. If pro-athletes just left the field and whined like a baby when calls didn't go there way, we wouldn't have professional sports. They get back up and play through the hardships and do their best. Naniwa has the level of maturity of a 5th grader during field day at school. Skill isn't everything, even though he was never the best in the world during his career. I'm glad his pathetic career of crying and whining is over and I hope he fails at everything he does in life with that attitude he has that everything needs to be catered for his own liking.
The sense of entitlement in this thread. Naniwa doesn't exist to entertain you. But here some of you are, insulting him by calling him a kid, yet actin as if you had the moral high ground.
On March 15 2014 02:21 Dangermousecatdog wrote: The sense of entitlement in this thread. Naniwa doesn't exist to entertain you. But here some of you are, insulting him by calling him a kid, yet actin as if you had the moral high ground.
athletes are entertainers by profession
Still doesn't mean you should insult people. He made an ass of himself, boo him off the stage and be done with it.
i dont like this at all by Naniwa .. he expects fair play and respect between the players but he himself is just flaming and hating in the scene.. i never liked him and this is the way i wanted to see his retirement.. he just deserves this
On March 15 2014 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Wow, this reminds me of Zidane during the world cup...
Pls don't insult our legend by comparing him to Naniwa :p
I don't think you can insult a monkey running after a ball by comparing him to someone who actually has to use his brain...
Naniwa continues to be Naniwa, and I highly doubt IEM will be his last competition. I give him half a year in a real job and he'll realize that playing vs swarm host is not the worst job you could have.
LOL. You cant be serious? Unless your racist against his African origins or something I cannot for the life of me see how you logically come to this conclusion? Perhaps try using your brain yourself? Yes... no... maybe? LOL.
You heard it here first folks... Naniwa > Zidane. THE WORLD IS IN TROUBLE.
If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
Kennigit checked with the LoL guys(with 6x the crowd), no issue. He checked with the other SC2 players, no issue. There was nothing Polt did implying he had been tipped off.
Naniwa was in the booth, Kennigit wasn't. I think it would be silly not to believe Naniwa.
I don't think the soundproofing issue caused his loss. He is probably drawing a connection over unconnected events. However I am certain there is a soundproofing issue.
Naniwa is a joke, has been since forever, people kept making excuses for him and forgiving him, even glorifying his childish behavior as the untameable spirit of a champion who only wants to win.
Im not into sc2 anymore, but im still glad that the scene is finally rid of him (most likely)
I think it's ironic to see people thinking that flinging insults and calling NaNi names makes them somehow more mature than him. It's a real shitty thing to do for sure, but it's not like he's gonna feel fine and dandy after this. Getting booed off the stage, losing his motivation, he's probably been feeling pretty shitty as of late.
Although I still would have preferred him to play the series out, even if he would have (and boy would he have) lost 0-3.
Naniwa still better than some sc2 pros if you compare as attitudes like Nerchio, Firecake,Miniraser and etc. He must be stand on scene and he must just take a break.
On March 15 2014 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Wow, this reminds me of Zidane during the world cup...
Pls don't insult our legend by comparing him to Naniwa :p
I don't think you can insult a monkey running after a ball by comparing him to someone who actually has to use his brain...
Naniwa continues to be Naniwa, and I highly doubt IEM will be his last competition. I give him half a year in a real job and he'll realize that playing vs swarm host is not the worst job you could have.
LOL. You cant be serious? Unless your racist against his African origins or something I cannot for the life of me see how you logically come to this conclusion? Perhaps try using your brain yourself? Yes... no... maybe? LOL.
You heard it here first folks... Naniwa > Zidane. THE WORLD IS IN TROUBLE.
What? My opinion of soccer/football is just extremely low. And what does your > mean? Do we have a rating of people now or some shit? You sound mad that I don't appreciate someones achievement in a field that I would like to see removed. I find it quiet interesting how you associate monkeys with Africans, now THAT does seem kinda racist to me, however I was rather referring to the "incredible" amount of intelligence required in soccer. And don't tell people to use their brain when you write like a 12-year-old.
NaNiwa keeping the scene lively, as ever. Events like this are actually what makes people stir sometimes - the players who just don't obey the rules and do as they please, well, they attract people.
Still though, it is a waste of money. I would assume he had a hotel room and expanses paid, so on that aspect, it is rather low.
I can't say I've ever been a real Naniwa fan, but everything about that 'series' made me sad. Between the childish excuses/forfeit and crowd booing, it's a shame he couldn't manage a more graceful exit on his birthday no less.
It should probably also be mentioned that Naniwa is the only person to complain about soundproofing: + Show Spoiler +
"I asked the LoL producers if they have a soundproof issue with a 6x bigger crowd: 'No'. No complaints from other SC2 players"
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of your computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
The only logic I can make of his behavior is that he didn't want to play but his team/ sponsor only agreed to him taking his break that he at least would play at this IEM. Why would anyone otherwise go to a tournament with that bad of a mindset? Oh well, Naniwhatever..
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
On March 15 2014 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Wow, this reminds me of Zidane during the world cup...
Pls don't insult our legend by comparing him to Naniwa :p
I don't think you can insult a monkey running after a ball by comparing him to someone who actually has to use his brain...
Naniwa continues to be Naniwa, and I highly doubt IEM will be his last competition. I give him half a year in a real job and he'll realize that playing vs swarm host is not the worst job you could have.
LOL. You cant be serious? Unless your racist against his African origins or something I cannot for the life of me see how you logically come to this conclusion? Perhaps try using your brain yourself? Yes... no... maybe? LOL.
You heard it here first folks... Naniwa > Zidane. THE WORLD IS IN TROUBLE.
What? My opinion of soccer/football is just extremely low. And what does your > mean? Do we have a rating of people now or some shit? You sound mad that I don't appreciate someones achievement in a field that I would like to see removed. I find it quiet interesting how you associate monkeys with Africans, now THAT does seem kinda racist to me, however I was rather referring to the "incredible" amount of intelligence required in soccer. And don't tell people to use their brain when you write like a 12-year-old.
Calling Zidane a "monkey running after a ball" is pretty damn stupid, regardless of your opinion about football.
I was a fan of Naniwa, and figured this would probably be his last major match for a long time/ever, so I was daydreaming of a really great way for Nani to bow out of the scene. Play as hard as he could, try his best, and probably lose 0-3. After losing, he goes over to Polt, shakes his hand and gives him a cheer as he leaves the booth. It would've been a terrific ending to his time in SC2, and could even turn his anti-fans into at least neutral. Leave him remembered as a skilled if controversial player. It's obviously just a dream and totally out of character, but how cool would it have been for that to be his exit?
On March 15 2014 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Wow, this reminds me of Zidane during the world cup...
Pls don't insult our legend by comparing him to Naniwa :p
I don't think you can insult a monkey running after a ball by comparing him to someone who actually has to use his brain...
Naniwa continues to be Naniwa, and I highly doubt IEM will be his last competition. I give him half a year in a real job and he'll realize that playing vs swarm host is not the worst job you could have.
LOL. You cant be serious? Unless your racist against his African origins or something I cannot for the life of me see how you logically come to this conclusion? Perhaps try using your brain yourself? Yes... no... maybe? LOL.
You heard it here first folks... Naniwa > Zidane. THE WORLD IS IN TROUBLE.
What? My opinion of soccer/football is just extremely low. And what does your > mean? Do we have a rating of people now or some shit? You sound mad that I don't appreciate someones achievement in a field that I would like to see removed. I find it quiet interesting how you associate monkeys with Africans, now THAT does seem kinda racist to me, however I was rather referring to the "incredible" amount of intelligence required in soccer. And don't tell people to use their brain when you write like a 12-year-old.
Calling Zidane a "monkey running after a ball" is pretty damn stupid, regardless of your opinion about football.
Oh don't worry I don't care whether it's this "Zidane" guy (whoever he is) or any other football player, they are all the same to me
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
On March 15 2014 02:39 Penev wrote: The only logic I can make of his behavior is that he didn't want to play but his team/ sponsor only agreed to him taking his break that he at least would play at this IEM. Why would anyone otherwise go to a tournament with that bad of a mindset? Oh well, Naniwhatever..
Yeah I have the feeling this is somehow a contract issue with Alliance or something. He forfeited many tournaments beforehand like homestory if he wasn't feeling right so it's strange for him to come here with this mindset.
Still a very sad way to handle the situation regardless ofc.
On March 15 2014 02:38 NorthernAetas wrote: I can't say I've ever been a real Naniwa fan, but everything about that 'series' made me sad. Between the childish excuses/forfeit and crowd booing, it's a shame he couldn't manage a more graceful exit on his birthday no less.
It should probably also be mentioned that Naniwa is the only person to complain about soundproofing: + Show Spoiler +
"I asked the LoL producers if they have a soundproof issue with a 6x bigger crowd: 'No'. No complaints from other SC2 players"
On March 15 2014 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Wow, this reminds me of Zidane during the world cup...
Pls don't insult our legend by comparing him to Naniwa :p
I don't think you can insult a monkey running after a ball by comparing him to someone who actually has to use his brain...
Naniwa continues to be Naniwa, and I highly doubt IEM will be his last competition. I give him half a year in a real job and he'll realize that playing vs swarm host is not the worst job you could have.
LOL. You cant be serious? Unless your racist against his African origins or something I cannot for the life of me see how you logically come to this conclusion? Perhaps try using your brain yourself? Yes... no... maybe? LOL.
You heard it here first folks... Naniwa > Zidane. THE WORLD IS IN TROUBLE.
What? My opinion of soccer/football is just extremely low. And what does your > mean? Do we have a rating of people now or some shit? You sound mad that I don't appreciate someones achievement in a field that I would like to see removed. I find it quiet interesting how you associate monkeys with Africans, now THAT does seem kinda racist to me, however I was rather referring to the "incredible" amount of intelligence required in soccer. And don't tell people to use their brain when you write like a 12-year-old.
Tactical nous at the professional level of football requires as much strategic prep and foresight as starcraft 2. Maybe not brood war tho :-). I apologize I assumed as a German youd have more perspective regarding your national sport but hey, to each his own. As a person of color Im allowed to make that distinction because with my own personal experience I was called that in relation to my skill color not my fondness for bananas, which ironically, I particularly like.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
On March 15 2014 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Wow, this reminds me of Zidane during the world cup...
Pls don't insult our legend by comparing him to Naniwa :p
I don't think you can insult a monkey running after a ball by comparing him to someone who actually has to use his brain...
Naniwa continues to be Naniwa, and I highly doubt IEM will be his last competition. I give him half a year in a real job and he'll realize that playing vs swarm host is not the worst job you could have.
LOL. You cant be serious? Unless your racist against his African origins or something I cannot for the life of me see how you logically come to this conclusion? Perhaps try using your brain yourself? Yes... no... maybe? LOL.
You heard it here first folks... Naniwa > Zidane. THE WORLD IS IN TROUBLE.
What? My opinion of soccer/football is just extremely low. And what does your > mean? Do we have a rating of people now or some shit? You sound mad that I don't appreciate someones achievement in a field that I would like to see removed. I find it quiet interesting how you associate monkeys with Africans, now THAT does seem kinda racist to me, however I was rather referring to the "incredible" amount of intelligence required in soccer. And don't tell people to use their brain when you write like a 12-year-old.
If you don't think soccer requires brain, strategy, and coordination, you should probably refrain from typing.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
You said yourself that wanting to win is everything in professional competition. Naniwa obviously didn't give his all to win.
He's a very young guy mentally, at least in some aspects i can see. Let him express what he wants without the constant scrutiny and dramatization.
He basically said that the community should celebrate or support him more than they have, while somewhere else he said that everything comes second to winning.
The fact that he's expressing himself differently every which way is quite a tell for how troubled he is about the whole pro-gaming deal with StarCraft. I say troubled, but maybe it's not a big deal to him in the end.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
You said yourself that wanting to win is everything in professional competition. Naniwa obviously didn't give his all to win.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
From the perspective of someone who has difficulty handling public opinion and the wall of noise that the internet presents to you 24/7, I see Naniwa let it affect his work far too much and that makes him ineffective as his job. At that point it becomes a waste of time to try and continue. You are ruining your health both physically and mentally but you're also failing at your job. Nobody is winning in that scenario and you drive your reputation into the ground. If you're doing shitty things and still being a success then great, that's something you can at least work with but when you're not even trying to win games and announcing publicly on Twitter that you don't practice, it's obvious you're in a rut that is not going to be easy to get out of.
From the perspective of a tournament organiser. Forfeits have hurt my events and my sponsors in the past. We also had one of our players forfeit in a 2012 event in the losers bracket, which I did not approve of and the team management took full responsibility for, but has since never happened again. When it comes to an event of this magnitude, forfeiting is completely unacceptable. It's winner takes all, it's an extremely hard tournament to get into, many players would kill for the shot that Naniwa didn't even bother to aim much less take. Any of my guys would have got on a plane right then and there to go and take on Polt and would have at least put up a good fight. Forfeiting the biggest event of the year (potentially) in front of one of our biggest crowds who paid actual money to go and see you play? There is no respect or sympathy to be found in that behavior and it hurts everyone and everything. It is toxic to the scene. Anytime something like this happens we take steps back, steps that were hard earned by the people who dedicate their lives to building this scene and making it a success. In a time of uncertainty, this is the last thing we need. This forfeit affected the integrity of the event, gave Polt a free pass to the RO8 that he didn't earn and pissed off the entire bloody crowd who rightfully booed as a result.
I hope this will be his last event, for the sake of his health firstly, but for the health of the scene as a whole.
On March 15 2014 01:54 JustPassingBy wrote: Wow, this reminds me of Zidane during the world cup...
Pls don't insult our legend by comparing him to Naniwa :p
I don't think you can insult a monkey running after a ball by comparing him to someone who actually has to use his brain...
Naniwa continues to be Naniwa, and I highly doubt IEM will be his last competition. I give him half a year in a real job and he'll realize that playing vs swarm host is not the worst job you could have.
LOL. You cant be serious? Unless your racist against his African origins or something I cannot for the life of me see how you logically come to this conclusion? Perhaps try using your brain yourself? Yes... no... maybe? LOL.
You heard it here first folks... Naniwa > Zidane. THE WORLD IS IN TROUBLE.
What? My opinion of soccer/football is just extremely low. And what does your > mean? Do we have a rating of people now or some shit? You sound mad that I don't appreciate someones achievement in a field that I would like to see removed. I find it quiet interesting how you associate monkeys with Africans, now THAT does seem kinda racist to me, however I was rather referring to the "incredible" amount of intelligence required in soccer. And don't tell people to use their brain when you write like a 12-year-old.
Calling Zidane a "monkey running after a ball" is pretty damn stupid, regardless of your opinion about football.
Oh don't worry I don't care whether it's this "Zidane" guy (whoever he is) or any other football player, they are all the same to me
rofl
pls post more, i like your bait lol
on topic, im still oblivious to why/how idra and naniwa has such large fan base
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
You said yourself that wanting to win is everything in professional competition. Naniwa obviously didn't give his all to win.
Do you even understand what I write?
Because said competitor has a history of competing we should give him/her a pass whenever we feel like it? When has that ever happened in TL. Idra, BratOK, Taeja, Demuslim, the lot have all been criticized when they haven't given their all.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
I agree with Naniwa's opinion and decision. I disagree with his execution, at a minimum though this gets more people to realize how dead sc2 is becoming and how much the game needs a complete revamping equivalent if not more to that of the d3 series currently. Him acting like a dumbass is inadvertently aiding a great cause for selfish reasons. By the way the guy would not randomly complain about soundproofing for no reason and considering IEM's reputation on that being just as poor as Naniwa's PR... Think about it.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
On March 15 2014 02:54 Damngood wrote: I agree with Naniwa's opinion and decision. I disagree with his execution, at a minimum though this gets more people to realize how dead sc2 is becoming and how much the game needs a complete revamping equivalent if not more to that of the d3 series currently. Him acting like a dumbass is inadvertently aiding a great cause for selfish reasons. By the way the guy would not randomly complain about soundproofing for no reason and considering IEM's reputation on that being just as poor as Naniwa's PR... Think about it.
I'll get back to you when the finals break 100k viewers and we can talk about the game being 'dead'
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
LOL there's a crowd. Of course there'll be noise. It's really not that hard of a conclusion to make.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
Or maybe he realizes that the crowd has always cheered when they see stuff like proxies from the very first SC tournaments?
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
you realize that it's a live event, right? cmon, no need to make excuses for him. If other players complained about sound issues, then I would agree with you but he's the only one to complain. It was obvious that he was trying to just get out of IEM using that as an excuse. Pretty poor on his part.
On March 15 2014 02:56 Smaug.GR wrote: if it was really not soundproof and the crowd gave it away I would react like him.
The LoL players (sitting in identical booths but with larger crowds) have voiced no concerns and the other SC2 players have raised no complaints either.
So, wait a second. If Polt's booth had no issues, was Naniwa the one playing in an imperfectly soundproofed booth and then blaming Polt's scout on the conditions in Naniwa's booth? If what Kennigit says is true, Naniwa either had no disadvantage, or he had the advantage. For all you defending his "competitor spirit", that's not what it looks like. A true competitor strives to overcome any disadvantage (like a "tryhard") and if that fails, blames the disadvantage only partly for the loss. A professional does his job first, and brings problems to supervisors later. His behaviour can't be defended with a rational argument, only blind fanboyism (undeserved in this case - he gives as much of a fuck about his fans as he does about his image as a professional).
Other players at the tourney must be stupid, and Kennigit too. Everybody but Naniwa is an idiot... I don't know how his fans can make arguments this stupid in the face of obvious bad sportsmanship. When a child does this we call it a tanturm and blame it on the child's age and/or maturity level. When a grown ass professional does this we shake our heads and palm our faces.
On March 15 2014 02:54 Damngood wrote: I agree with Naniwa's opinion and decision. I disagree with his execution, at a minimum though this gets more people to realize how dead sc2 is becoming and how much the game needs a complete revamping equivalent if not more to that of the d3 series currently. Him acting like a dumbass is inadvertently aiding a great cause for selfish reasons. By the way the guy would not randomly complain about soundproofing for no reason and considering IEM's reputation on that being just as poor as Naniwa's PR... Think about it.
On March 15 2014 02:56 Smaug.GR wrote: if it was really not soundproof and the crowd gave it away I would react like him.
The LoL players (sitting in identical booths but with larger crowds) have voiced no concerns and the other SC2 players have raised no complaints either.
And nobody mentioned GOM's soundproofing issue until Jinro.
Turns out people not whistleblowing isn't an indicator of anything other than people's reluctance to be whistleblowers.
On March 15 2014 02:58 dUTtrOACh wrote: So, wait a second. If Polt's booth had no issues, was Naniwa the one playing in an imperfectly soundproofed booth and then blaming Polt's scout on the conditions in Naniwa's booth? If what Kennigit says is true, Naniwa either had no disadvantage, or he had the advantage. For all you defending his "competitor spirit", that's not what it looks like. A true competitor strives to overcome any disadvantage (like a "tryhard") and if that fails, blames the disadvantage only partly for the loss. A professional does his job first, and brings problems to supervisors later. His behaviour can't be defended with a rational argument, only blind fanboyism (undeserved in this case - he gives as much of a fuck about his fans as he does about his image as a professional).
Other players at the tourney must be stupid, and Kennigit too. Everybody but Naniwa is an idiot... I don't know how his fans can make arguments this stupid in the face of obvious bad sportsmanship. When a child does this we call it a tanturm and blame it on the child's age and/or maturity level. When a grown ass professional does this we shake our heads and palm our faces.
Stop with the logic please, Naniwa fans don't believe in logic.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
LOL there's a crowd. Of course there'll be noise. It's really not that hard of a conclusion to make.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
Or maybe he realizes that the crowd has always cheered when they see stuff like proxies from the very first SC tournaments?
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
you realize that it's a live event, right? cmon, no need to make excuses for him. If other players complained about sound issues, then I would agree with you but he's the only one to complain. It was obvious that he was trying to just get out of IEM using that as an excuse. Pretty poor on his part.
That would be quite the gamble. If there was no spike in crowd volume at the time he would end up humiliated and outed as a liar.
Yet there's no payoff if he wins the gamble. So why would he take that gamble?
But hey, don't let common sense get in the way of your mindless Naniwa hatred.
Whatever Naniwa's reasoning for not wanting to play SC2 anymore or even give a good try in this tournament that alot of players worked really hard for, this is nothing short of disgraceful and a dark day for the entire esports scene.
I've never much cared for Naniwa; his attitude may have been over the top at times but I always respected his skill, at the very least. He is/was the best if not one of the best foreigners for a very long time. However, doing things like this in front of an audience no doubt full of fans or even people who would have loved to see him lose, not to mention hundreds of players like himself is highly damaging to an already fragile scene.
Today we may have lost a great player, but we don't need someone with mentality like this representing our game.
I'm not exactly sure why he's complaining about soundproofing, but I do know that the picture in the first post of this thread is perhaps the darkest and most saddening picture I've ever seen during my time in esports. Makes me feel really sad, I really admired Naniwa.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I'm pretty sure that Naniwa heard or felt something related to the crowd. Whether it made a difference in Polt's actions or not in my mind is completely irrelevant; Naniwa thought it made a difference. I'm not particularly fond of Naniwa but if I was in a bad place, tired of the game and suddenly you feel the organizers can't properly isolate the booths I'd be pretty pissed as well. You're all acting like this is super shocking or something, he clearly didn't feel like completing the games. Would a 0-3 demolish make you feel better, like really?
On March 15 2014 01:31 Drake wrote: if he not wanna play why he not forefit BEFORE then hasu could have played the tournament as 3rd in qualifiers ... stupid ... naniwa i rly liked him always but htis is worse then his proberush
On March 15 2014 02:56 Smaug.GR wrote: if it was really not soundproof and the crowd gave it away I would react like him.
The LoL players (sitting in identical booths but with larger crowds) have voiced no concerns and the other SC2 players have raised no complaints either.
And nobody mentioned GOM's soundproofing issue until Jinro.
Turns out people not whistleblowing isn't an indicator of anything other than people's reluctance to be whistleblowers.
So when other players are asked what they think and they think it's fine, we're to believe the crybaby who's been letting everyone know how little he cares about Katowice all week long?
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
On March 15 2014 02:12 Daralii wrote: [quote] There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
LOL there's a crowd. Of course there'll be noise. It's really not that hard of a conclusion to make.
On March 15 2014 02:12 Daralii wrote: [quote] There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
Or maybe he realizes that the crowd has always cheered when they see stuff like proxies from the very first SC tournaments?
On March 15 2014 02:12 Daralii wrote: [quote] There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
you realize that it's a live event, right? cmon, no need to make excuses for him. If other players complained about sound issues, then I would agree with you but he's the only one to complain. It was obvious that he was trying to just get out of IEM using that as an excuse. Pretty poor on his part.
That would be quite the gamble. If there was no spike in crowd volume at the time he would end up humiliated and outed as a liar.
Yet there's no payoff if he wins the gamble. So why would he take that gamble?
But hey, don't let common sense get in the way of your mindless Naniwa hatred.
what? how? how is he humiliated if he says he heard noise when there wasn't? If he doesn't care about doing probe rushes and causing fans to rage, I doubt he cares about something like that. You're sugarcoating this whole volume excuse way too much >.> I'm not a naniwa fan or hater so I don't have any reason to be bias against him.
On March 15 2014 03:05 iLikeRain wrote: I'm pretty sure that Naniwa heard or felt something related to the crowd. Whether it made a difference in Polt's actions or not in my mind is completely irrelevant; Naniwa thought it made a difference. I'm not particularly fond of Naniwa but if I was in a bad place, tired of the game and suddenly you feel the organizers can't properly isolate the booths I'd be pretty pissed as well. You're all acting like this is super shocking or something, he clearly didn't feel like completing the games. Would a 0-3 demolish make you feel better, like really?
there's a difference between you know and you feel. This was just a way for him to leave the tourney without playing the rest of the games. That's my theory based on the timing of it.
On March 15 2014 02:56 Smaug.GR wrote: if it was really not soundproof and the crowd gave it away I would react like him.
The LoL players (sitting in identical booths but with larger crowds) have voiced no concerns and the other SC2 players have raised no complaints either.
And nobody mentioned GOM's soundproofing issue until Jinro.
Turns out people not whistleblowing isn't an indicator of anything other than people's reluctance to be whistleblowers.
When GOM's soundproofing issue came up they fixed it, because it was true.
When Naniwa's soundproofing issue came up they tested the booths, checked with other events (with a louder crowd), discovered he was full of shit and published that via twitter.
I don't see the comparison. Jinro discovered something real, and Naniwa abandoned his fans and took a shit all over the very idea of competition.
The fallacy with whistle-blowing is that the whistle-blower is always telling the truth. Usually, after a whistle is blown, it compels others to tell the truth, and it then corroborates with what the whistle-blower says . This is not one of those situations. This was just a guy who wanted out. Let him go, and be careful patting him on the back, lest you reinforce this behaviour even more.
Is anybody gonna be starting a thread like this about Taeja next? Another guy giving a middle finger to the crowd and viewers Pretty sad to see these "professionals" show up to a $100k tournament that hundreds of others would love to be at and they don't give a F**K
Glad he got boo'd out. Deserves it for being a little shit like that my god he should have forfeited before hand and let another player take his place.
naniwa just has been lacking the overall mindset which is required to be successful in the long run in any competitive environment. If he really wants to end his career as one of the most promising foreign talents in SC2 that way, it's best for all of us to quickly forget about him and move on. No tears to be shed, it's just a waste of time, no need to give him any more attention for his bitchy behaviour.
Sad for IEM production and audience, though, that spot could have been used in a better way, after all.
Game 7, of the final finals. $100k on the line. 3-3. You cannot cheese because the crowd will give it away.
This tournament being winner takes all, I have no problem with. This tournament being winner takes all with no soundproofing, meaning the crowd can screw over a player? That's ABSURD.
Too right Naniwa walks off. They took a slightly off-beat idea some people weren't keen on. Then they made it REALLY FUCKING STUPID by letting the crowd fuck things up. It's winner takes all. Why are you letting the crowd decide who wins?
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
LOL there's a crowd. Of course there'll be noise. It's really not that hard of a conclusion to make.
On March 15 2014 02:55 Chewbacca. wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:54 Zaqwe wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:53 HellNino wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:51 Zaqwe wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:49 Whatson wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:46 Zaqwe wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:43 Whatson wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:14 Gr33d wrote: [quote]
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
Or maybe he realizes that the crowd has always cheered when they see stuff like proxies from the very first SC tournaments?
On March 15 2014 02:57 BigFan wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:54 Zaqwe wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:53 HellNino wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:51 Zaqwe wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:49 Whatson wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:46 Zaqwe wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:43 Whatson wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:14 Gr33d wrote: [quote]
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
you realize that it's a live event, right? cmon, no need to make excuses for him. If other players complained about sound issues, then I would agree with you but he's the only one to complain. It was obvious that he was trying to just get out of IEM using that as an excuse. Pretty poor on his part.
That would be quite the gamble. If there was no spike in crowd volume at the time he would end up humiliated and outed as a liar.
Yet there's no payoff if he wins the gamble. So why would he take that gamble?
But hey, don't let common sense get in the way of your mindless Naniwa hatred.
what? how? how is he humiliated if he says he heard noise when there wasn't? If he doesn't care about doing probe rushes and causing fans to rage, I doubt he cares about something like that. You're sugarcoating this whole volume excuse way too much >.> I'm not a naniwa fan or hater so I don't have any reason to be bias against him.
On March 15 2014 03:05 iLikeRain wrote: I'm pretty sure that Naniwa heard or felt something related to the crowd. Whether it made a difference in Polt's actions or not in my mind is completely irrelevant; Naniwa thought it made a difference. I'm not particularly fond of Naniwa but if I was in a bad place, tired of the game and suddenly you feel the organizers can't properly isolate the booths I'd be pretty pissed as well. You're all acting like this is super shocking or something, he clearly didn't feel like completing the games. Would a 0-3 demolish make you feel better, like really?
there's a difference between you know and you feel. This was just a way for him to leave the tourney without playing the rest of the games. That's my theory based on the timing of it.
He would be caught in an outrageous and embarrassing lie. It's not a gamble anyone would take. The payoff is nonexistant and the loss would be huge.
He correctly identified the noise because he heard it. That's the only rational explanation.
It has already been established the soundproofing had no impact on the game as Polt used the same scouting pattern as always and didn't change anything in reaction to the noise. So I don't care about the "excuse" at all.
I am just calling people out on the fact that their irrational hatred of Naniwa is causing them to call him a liar when common sense suggests he is not lying.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
They agreed to the players the moment they paid for the tickets for the show. And he robbed them of the show they wanted to watch. And without the audience there would be no e-sports = no Naniwa.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
They agreed to the players the moment they paid for the tickets for the show. And he robbed them of the show they wanted to watch. And without the audience there would be no e-sports = no Naniwa.
They get to make the show. Winner takes all and they can decide who wins. They got what they paid for, Naniwa just made sure they know what they can get. The choice of who wins $100k.
Either way, whether there were/are soundproofing issues or not, it doesn't even matter (in the context of his behaviour), since Polt had already sent the SCV. Naniwa is unprofessional and contrary to the opinion of some people he HAS an obligation to be entertaining for fans (especially if they pay for tickets), even if it is for selfish reasons. You are/were a professional player on a team, tournaments and teams need money, money comes from sponsors, sponsors come from fan-interest which comes from... being either one of the godliest players or entertaining. Forfeiting a series when you allegedly haven't practiced makes you neither interesting through skill nor entertainment value - unless you are into car-wrecks.
So much hate in this thread. Naniwa was entirely within his rights to do what he did. You can disagree with the decision, but if he raised an issue with the admin and the admin (presumably) failed or refused to resolve it to his satisfaction, forfeiting isn't all that unreasonable.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
You were always making a bad image of Naniwa, now you claim that you were a fan?
The competition is above it all, and so is Naniwa, because he's just a servant of competition. The competition is and always was the first. Fans are just the second.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
You were always making a bad image of Naniwa, now you claim that you were a fan?
The competition is above it all, and so is Naniwa, because he's just a servant of competition. The competition is and always was the first. Fans are just the second.
Without fans there will be no competition. Who will organize events which no one will want to watch?
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
You were always making a bad image of Naniwa, now you claim that you were a fan?
The competition is above it all, and so is Naniwa, because he's just a servant of competition. The competition is and always was the first. Fans are just the second.
Without fans there will be no competition. Who will organize events which no one will want to watch?
Let's face it. Competition is first. People want to compete even if there is no fans.
Then, if you want to have money in the competition, then you need to add the second component, i.e., fans.
Zaqwe is not using common sense really though... Just because he heard the crowd, that means that there is a widespread soundproofing issue?
It couldn't have been that his headphones weren't seated quite right or any number of things that were in his control that could affect the soundproofing. What are the people at IEM to do? Inspect how you place your headphones on your head and do noise testing before you let the player play?
Naniwa displays no respect for the game or e-sports. Yes, he earned his spot and he has the right to do whatever he wants, but that doesn't make the actions warranted or proper. Can't expect people to be respectful to him when he acts that way.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
You were always making a bad image of Naniwa, now you claim that you were a fan?
The competition is above it all, and so is Naniwa, because he's just a servant of competition. The competition is and always was the first. Fans are just the second.
I know you were upset about the way I wrote Naniwa's Road to Blizzcon entry, but please cut the bullshit about me not being a fan. You're so far off you're making yourself look like a fool. I am a fan and I have been for years - that you think otherwise does not make it so.
Also, you say that competition is above all, and yet you think it's fine when Naniwa spits in the face of competition by throwing game one, complaining about a non-issue and then forfeiting? What kind of competition is that?
On March 15 2014 03:11 VasHeR wrote: Is anybody gonna be starting a thread like this about Taeja next? Another guy giving a middle finger to the crowd and viewers Pretty sad to see these "professionals" show up to a $100k tournament that hundreds of others would love to be at and they don't give a F**K
There is a huge difference between what Taeja and naniwa did.
On March 15 2014 03:17 Iceman331 wrote: So much hate in this thread. Naniwa was entirely within his rights to do what he did. You can disagree with the decision, but if he raised an issue with the admin and the admin (presumably) failed or refused to resolve it to his satisfaction, forfeiting isn't all that unreasonable.
It's definitely not unreasonable in a winner takes all tournament. Seriously, any little thing could cost the entire prize pool. People just need to imagine it's the final, and the entire $100k was on the line. What would you think if it had been game 1 of the final final, one player cheeses, the crowd gives it away.
The outrage would NOT be against the player. People would be raging so hard at ESL/IEM. So hard. Yet because it's round 1 and Naniwa and he's not wanting to play the game anyway, he makes a heated decision and everyone rages against him instead.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
LOL there's a crowd. Of course there'll be noise. It's really not that hard of a conclusion to make.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
Or maybe he realizes that the crowd has always cheered when they see stuff like proxies from the very first SC tournaments?
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
you realize that it's a live event, right? cmon, no need to make excuses for him. If other players complained about sound issues, then I would agree with you but he's the only one to complain. It was obvious that he was trying to just get out of IEM using that as an excuse. Pretty poor on his part.
That would be quite the gamble. If there was no spike in crowd volume at the time he would end up humiliated and outed as a liar.
Yet there's no payoff if he wins the gamble. So why would he take that gamble?
But hey, don't let common sense get in the way of your mindless Naniwa hatred.
what? how? how is he humiliated if he says he heard noise when there wasn't? If he doesn't care about doing probe rushes and causing fans to rage, I doubt he cares about something like that. You're sugarcoating this whole volume excuse way too much >.> I'm not a naniwa fan or hater so I don't have any reason to be bias against him.
On March 15 2014 03:05 iLikeRain wrote: I'm pretty sure that Naniwa heard or felt something related to the crowd. Whether it made a difference in Polt's actions or not in my mind is completely irrelevant; Naniwa thought it made a difference. I'm not particularly fond of Naniwa but if I was in a bad place, tired of the game and suddenly you feel the organizers can't properly isolate the booths I'd be pretty pissed as well. You're all acting like this is super shocking or something, he clearly didn't feel like completing the games. Would a 0-3 demolish make you feel better, like really?
there's a difference between you know and you feel. This was just a way for him to leave the tourney without playing the rest of the games. That's my theory based on the timing of it.
He would be caught in an outrageous and embarrassing lie. It's not a gamble anyone would take. The payoff is nonexistant and the loss would be huge.
He correctly identified the noise because he heard it. That's the only rational explanation.
It has already been established the soundproofing had no impact on the game as Polt used the same scouting pattern as always and didn't change anything in reaction to the noise. So I don't care about the "excuse" at all.
I am just calling people out on the fact that their irrational hatred of Naniwa is causing them to call him a liar when common sense suggests he is not lying.
what loss? he has nothing to lose from what he did. He already said he wasn't practicing and was planning to go on indefinite leave, aka likely retire after this so it wouldn't affect him in the least. He's had a habit of being controversial so this would've just been added to the list and nothing more. You're giving him a lot of credit. When no one else found an issue with the booths(not just SCII but also LoL) and the guy is known for whining and such, I would not trust his opinion on something like this. I'm not hating on Naniwa but I disagree that it's common sense that he is not lying.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
You were always making a bad image of Naniwa, now you claim that you were a fan?
The competition is above it all, and so is Naniwa, because he's just a servant of competition. The competition is and always was the first. Fans are just the second.
Without fans there will be no competition. Who will organize events which no one will want to watch?
it's actually funny he wrote that because I've always seen Zealously as a Naniwa fan.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
LOL there's a crowd. Of course there'll be noise. It's really not that hard of a conclusion to make.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
Or maybe he realizes that the crowd has always cheered when they see stuff like proxies from the very first SC tournaments?
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
you realize that it's a live event, right? cmon, no need to make excuses for him. If other players complained about sound issues, then I would agree with you but he's the only one to complain. It was obvious that he was trying to just get out of IEM using that as an excuse. Pretty poor on his part.
That would be quite the gamble. If there was no spike in crowd volume at the time he would end up humiliated and outed as a liar.
Yet there's no payoff if he wins the gamble. So why would he take that gamble?
But hey, don't let common sense get in the way of your mindless Naniwa hatred.
what? how? how is he humiliated if he says he heard noise when there wasn't? If he doesn't care about doing probe rushes and causing fans to rage, I doubt he cares about something like that. You're sugarcoating this whole volume excuse way too much >.> I'm not a naniwa fan or hater so I don't have any reason to be bias against him.
On March 15 2014 03:05 iLikeRain wrote: I'm pretty sure that Naniwa heard or felt something related to the crowd. Whether it made a difference in Polt's actions or not in my mind is completely irrelevant; Naniwa thought it made a difference. I'm not particularly fond of Naniwa but if I was in a bad place, tired of the game and suddenly you feel the organizers can't properly isolate the booths I'd be pretty pissed as well. You're all acting like this is super shocking or something, he clearly didn't feel like completing the games. Would a 0-3 demolish make you feel better, like really?
there's a difference between you know and you feel. This was just a way for him to leave the tourney without playing the rest of the games. That's my theory based on the timing of it.
He would be caught in an outrageous and embarrassing lie. It's not a gamble anyone would take. The payoff is nonexistant and the loss would be huge.
He correctly identified the noise because he heard it. That's the only rational explanation.
It has already been established the soundproofing had no impact on the game as Polt used the same scouting pattern as always and didn't change anything in reaction to the noise. So I don't care about the "excuse" at all.
I am just calling people out on the fact that their irrational hatred of Naniwa is causing them to call him a liar when common sense suggests he is not lying.
Even if I don't hear a sound, if someone tells me "the engine is roaring" I can imagine a sound - the sound of an engine roaring. It may not be perfect, but I did imagine it. Imagine an SCV scouts your proxy gateway rush, and your world starts to shrink from rationality to feeling. You feel a vibration in your toes. This must be the crowd going completely apeshit. You can imagine the racket now - it roars in your head: "Polt, Naniwa's proxy is at co-ordinate (X,Y)! The world wants Naniwa to lose! Follow our screams! Find the hidden building!"
Yup, common sense; even in my imagination it sounds fucking stupid....
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
They agreed to the players the moment they paid for the tickets for the show. And he robbed them of the show they wanted to watch. And without the audience there would be no e-sports = no Naniwa.
The tickets were free. Can you send the a copy of the contract saying "you must play" or you are just making it up?
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
They agreed to the players the moment they paid for the tickets for the show. And he robbed them of the show they wanted to watch. And without the audience there would be no e-sports = no Naniwa.
The tickets were free. Can you send the a copy of the contract saying "you must play" or you are just making it up?
I am not sure if you understood what I wrote. Cool off.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
You were always making a bad image of Naniwa, now you claim that you were a fan?
The competition is above it all, and so is Naniwa, because he's just a servant of competition. The competition is and always was the first. Fans are just the second.
Without fans there will be no competition. Who will organize events which no one will want to watch?
Let's face it. Competition is first. People want to compete even if there is no fans.
Then, if you want to have money in the competition, then you need to add the second component, i.e., fans.
so people will play 10+ hr a day of a game when there is no money on the line which means that unless they are living somewhere where everything is paid for, it's all for nothing? please, don't kid yourself. I'm not saying that you can't play a game competitively if you want but no one in their right mind would play a game competitively unless they had some source of income either from the game or the side so that they are able to still live their life. If Naniwa was truly playing to be competitive, then he would've played the bo5 and either won or lost and not forfeit over what he claims to be a sound issue.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
LOL there's a crowd. Of course there'll be noise. It's really not that hard of a conclusion to make.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
Or maybe he realizes that the crowd has always cheered when they see stuff like proxies from the very first SC tournaments?
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
you realize that it's a live event, right? cmon, no need to make excuses for him. If other players complained about sound issues, then I would agree with you but he's the only one to complain. It was obvious that he was trying to just get out of IEM using that as an excuse. Pretty poor on his part.
That would be quite the gamble. If there was no spike in crowd volume at the time he would end up humiliated and outed as a liar.
Yet there's no payoff if he wins the gamble. So why would he take that gamble?
But hey, don't let common sense get in the way of your mindless Naniwa hatred.
what? how? how is he humiliated if he says he heard noise when there wasn't? If he doesn't care about doing probe rushes and causing fans to rage, I doubt he cares about something like that. You're sugarcoating this whole volume excuse way too much >.> I'm not a naniwa fan or hater so I don't have any reason to be bias against him.
On March 15 2014 03:05 iLikeRain wrote: I'm pretty sure that Naniwa heard or felt something related to the crowd. Whether it made a difference in Polt's actions or not in my mind is completely irrelevant; Naniwa thought it made a difference. I'm not particularly fond of Naniwa but if I was in a bad place, tired of the game and suddenly you feel the organizers can't properly isolate the booths I'd be pretty pissed as well. You're all acting like this is super shocking or something, he clearly didn't feel like completing the games. Would a 0-3 demolish make you feel better, like really?
there's a difference between you know and you feel. This was just a way for him to leave the tourney without playing the rest of the games. That's my theory based on the timing of it.
He would be caught in an outrageous and embarrassing lie. It's not a gamble anyone would take. The payoff is nonexistant and the loss would be huge.
He correctly identified the noise because he heard it. That's the only rational explanation.
It has already been established the soundproofing had no impact on the game as Polt used the same scouting pattern as always and didn't change anything in reaction to the noise. So I don't care about the "excuse" at all.
I am just calling people out on the fact that their irrational hatred of Naniwa is causing them to call him a liar when common sense suggests he is not lying.
Same scouting pattern why has it been established ? i went back and checked polts scouting just since doing a proxy like that randomly is wierd. Do you know what the vods from cologne had for info ? a polt going straight from his base to the other starting spots every game and series until the very last game where he did a slight variation. Now hear the crowd as you get scouted by a guy that last tourney slightly scouted for proxies 1 game out of 20 games and say you would not be mad over sound proofing after that.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
How about you read the thread OP, then? Why are you even posting in the thread if you don't know what everyone is complaining about?
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
You were always making a bad image of Naniwa, now you claim that you were a fan?
The competition is above it all, and so is Naniwa, because he's just a servant of competition. The competition is and always was the first. Fans are just the second.
I know you were upset about the way I wrote Naniwa's Road to Blizzcon entry, but please cut the bullshit about me not being a fan. You're so far off you're making yourself look like a fool. I am a fan and I have been for years - that you think otherwise does not make it so.
Also, you say that competition is above all, and yet you think it's fine when Naniwa spits in the face of competition by throwing game one, complaining about a non-issue and then forfeiting? What kind of competition is that?
All right, I think it's clear why I called you not a fan. Thanks for the link though.
Naniwa currently is out of this competition. He clearly said it before IEM. This, however, doesn't take away from him all what he earned and all what he contributed to this competition in the last years. Period. He was a servant. He is no more.
There was a player that we followed in SC2. There is no more. Let's accept it and move on without shitting on this player like headless sheep.
on another note im really sorry for him (Naniwa), he was a star, a celebrity in sc2, he could do stuff like he did and still people want to pay him, loved him. now when he retires and will get a "normal" job - welcome to the real world...
On March 15 2014 02:46 Zaqwe wrote: [quote] Naniwa was in the booth and heard the crowd.
So he says.
There's no reason to believe he is lying.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
LOL there's a crowd. Of course there'll be noise. It's really not that hard of a conclusion to make.
On March 15 2014 02:55 Chewbacca. wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:54 Zaqwe wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:53 HellNino wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:51 Zaqwe wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:49 Whatson wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:46 Zaqwe wrote: [quote] Naniwa was in the booth and heard the crowd.
So he says.
There's no reason to believe he is lying.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
Or maybe he realizes that the crowd has always cheered when they see stuff like proxies from the very first SC tournaments?
On March 15 2014 02:57 BigFan wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:54 Zaqwe wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:53 HellNino wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:51 Zaqwe wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:49 Whatson wrote:
On March 15 2014 02:46 Zaqwe wrote: [quote] Naniwa was in the booth and heard the crowd.
So he says.
There's no reason to believe he is lying.
In fact if there were no soundproofing issue he would have no way to know there was noise.
QED. It's impossible for him to be lying.
or maybe he lies to save what rest of his reputation? If all the other people that played/tested the booth didnt hear a thing, then maybe the liar is the only guy arguing otherwise?
Won't miss the guy.
He would have no way to know there was noise, unless he heard noise.
Either he is psychic or there's a soundproofing issue.
you realize that it's a live event, right? cmon, no need to make excuses for him. If other players complained about sound issues, then I would agree with you but he's the only one to complain. It was obvious that he was trying to just get out of IEM using that as an excuse. Pretty poor on his part.
That would be quite the gamble. If there was no spike in crowd volume at the time he would end up humiliated and outed as a liar.
Yet there's no payoff if he wins the gamble. So why would he take that gamble?
But hey, don't let common sense get in the way of your mindless Naniwa hatred.
what? how? how is he humiliated if he says he heard noise when there wasn't? If he doesn't care about doing probe rushes and causing fans to rage, I doubt he cares about something like that. You're sugarcoating this whole volume excuse way too much >.> I'm not a naniwa fan or hater so I don't have any reason to be bias against him.
On March 15 2014 03:05 iLikeRain wrote: I'm pretty sure that Naniwa heard or felt something related to the crowd. Whether it made a difference in Polt's actions or not in my mind is completely irrelevant; Naniwa thought it made a difference. I'm not particularly fond of Naniwa but if I was in a bad place, tired of the game and suddenly you feel the organizers can't properly isolate the booths I'd be pretty pissed as well. You're all acting like this is super shocking or something, he clearly didn't feel like completing the games. Would a 0-3 demolish make you feel better, like really?
there's a difference between you know and you feel. This was just a way for him to leave the tourney without playing the rest of the games. That's my theory based on the timing of it.
He would be caught in an outrageous and embarrassing lie. It's not a gamble anyone would take. The payoff is nonexistant and the loss would be huge.
He correctly identified the noise because he heard it. That's the only rational explanation.
It has already been established the soundproofing had no impact on the game as Polt used the same scouting pattern as always and didn't change anything in reaction to the noise. So I don't care about the "excuse" at all.
I am just calling people out on the fact that their irrational hatred of Naniwa is causing them to call him a liar when common sense suggests he is not lying.
Same scouting pattern why has it been established ? i went back and checked polts scouting just since doing a proxy like that randomly is wierd. Do you know what the vods from cologne had for info ? a polt going straight from his base to the other starting spots every game and series until the very last game where he did a slight variation. Now hear the crowd as you get scouted by a guy that last tourney slightly scouted for proxies 1 game out of 20 games and say you would not be mad over sound proofing after that.
Still bad choice not playing out the series.
Okay. I didn't watch the game and I didn't watch any of Polt's previous games. I was just going off what I heard in this thread.
Regardless I am not even arguing about whether the soundproofing issue was a factor in the loss.
I only posted to point out what a ludicrous stretch of believability it is to accuse Naniwa of lying about the soundproofing.
He correctly identified a spike in crowd volume. The only logical explanation for that is he heard the crowd. Any other conclusion is on par with moon landing conspiracy theories. He heard the crowd. Period.
Naniwa has done many things that he shouldn't have, but you guys should at least hope for him to get better. Naniwa is clearly a troubled individual. I hope he is able to overcome his issues and live a blessed life.
In my own opinion NaNiwa is beyond egocentric when it comes to being a progamer. Players like Hasuobs and Jaedong wouldve killed to be in his spot. Also it is NOT okay for him to do whatever he wants. He was INVITED to an event where there was a limited amount of players for a prize pool of 100k. If he wants to be a crybaby about life than it would've been better for him to not show up at all.
So long NaNiwa hopefully I never have to see your face on a stream again.
On March 15 2014 02:09 Headnoob wrote: Pretty pathetic that soundproofing isn't something that's been addressed in years.
There is no soundproofing issue. NaNi's trying to stir shit up on his way out, nothing more.
With ESL history of not-so-perfect tournament conditions I would not rule out a sound issue. It would not be the first time players can hear the crowd / casters, especially if it gets realy loud.
So he says. If the LoL players aren't having issues, there's no reason sc2 players should have issues.
LoL players are used to playing on open stages with big screens behind them, which at least once resulted in a player cheating. Dont really think their opinion is relevant to be honest.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
How about you read the thread OP, then? Why are you even posting in the thread if you don't know what everyone is complaining about?
On March 15 2014 01:27 bosstoss2013 wrote: NaNiwa is worse than Idra.
no he is not. Idra wouldn't have GG'd and left without further comment, leaving everybody puzzled
idra would have played the whole series. maybe he would've ragequitted most of the games, but he at least knows what it means to be a proffessional on the most basic level.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
How about you read the thread OP, then? Why are you even posting in the thread if you don't know what everyone is complaining about?
Freedom of speech?
This is a minor nitpick but there is no freedom of speech on TeamLiquid
On March 15 2014 01:27 bosstoss2013 wrote: NaNiwa is worse than Idra.
no he is not. Idra wouldn't have GG'd and left without further comment, leaving everybody puzzled
idra would have played the whole series. maybe he would've ragequitted most of the games, but he at least knows what it means to be a proffessional on the most basic level.
The same IdrA who 6pooled three games in a row iirc in a pretty big and anticipated series?
No defense of Nani's actions today. He left the SC2 community making sure no one will welcome him back should he ever change his mind.
Bye nani. Your antics aren't funny or endearning. They just waste all of our time. You had some great games and showed some great skill, but I won't miss you now.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
How about you read the thread OP, then? Why are you even posting in the thread if you don't know what everyone is complaining about?
Freedom of speech?
You'll excuse me if I discard your opinion as uninformed then.
On March 15 2014 01:33 Firkraag8 wrote: He's very direct and goes about things inappropriately but would he lie about it?
Remember that time he blamed his bad performance on PC performance issues, while no one else at the tournament had problems with the same gear? That's just how naniwa is. He's a crybaby.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
How about you read the thread OP, then? Why are you even posting in the thread if you don't know what everyone is complaining about?
Freedom of speech?
Haha, really?
Ontopic: Just reading the op, this doesnt seem very positive for Naniwa. I can fully understand his frustration, thinking the cabin isnt soundproof, but i think there are two sides. Suppose the organization guy doesnt agree with him. Would you change the set up of both booths mid-series for a reason you don't agree with? I sure wouldn't. If Naniwa's right, which we don't know (or i dont at least), the organization should take responsibility, whatever consequences that may have. I don't think forfeiting like this is a solution to anything.
If there really were soundproofing problems AND the admin failed to do anything about it, he should've used that to his advantage instead of being an unprofessional crybaby and forfeiting the series.
Lets be rational. We need more data to reach a conclusion there is a sound proof issue. Perhaps an opinion from not biased source aka other players. Nani wrote on twitter day before IEM that he doesnt play the game cause hes burned out. This means he was not properly prepared for the tournament and had no chance winning anything given all koreans play 12 hours a day everyday. He knew he had no chance winning any money in winner takes all tourny. In fact i think he knew very well he had no chance. Now, he has accused other tournaments of sound proof issues which were proven to be false. That throws this claim under the "to be proven box". Given the circumstances I don't believe him and I think he was just looking for a way out. All the fan boys need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. That said, the Katowice Arena is really big and there are a lot of people there. There is a possibility that he heard yelling crowd when the LOL game ended on the stage close by. Who knows, we don't know as there is no conclusive evidence to support his claim neither is anyone else complaining. Being highly critical and straight up bashing the whole IEM finals is quite stupid so hold your horses fan boys.
On March 15 2014 03:51 boski055 wrote: Lets be rational. We need more data to reach a conclusion there is a sound proof issue. Perhaps an opinion from not biased source aka other players. Nani wrote on twitter day before IEM that he doesnt play the game cause hes burned out. This means he was not properly prepared for the tournament and had no chance winning anything given all koreans play 12 hours a day everyday. He knew he had no chance winning any money in winner takes all tourny. In fact i think he knew very well he had no chance. Now, he has accused other tournaments of sound proof issues which were proven to be false. That throws this claim under the "to be proven box". Given the circumstances I don't believe him and I think he was just looking for a way out. All the fan boys need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. That said, the Katowice Arena is really big and there are a lot of people there. There is a possibility that he heard yelling crowd when the LOL game ended on the stage close by. Who knows, we don't know as there is no conclusive evidence to support his claim not is anyone else complaining. Being highly critical and straight up bashing the whole IEM finals is quite stupid so hold your horses fan boys.
On March 15 2014 03:51 boski055 wrote: Lets be rational. We need more data to reach a conclusion there is a sound proof issue. Perhaps an opinion from not biased source aka other players. Nani wrote on twitter day before IEM that he doesnt play the game cause hes burned out. This means he was not properly prepared for the tournament and had no chance winning anything given all koreans play 12 hours a day everyday. He knew he had no chance winning any money in winner takes all tourny. In fact i think he knew very well he had no chance. Now, he has accused other tournaments of sound proof issues which were proven to be false. That throws this claim under the "to be proven box". Given the circumstances I don't believe him and I think he was just looking for a way out. All the fan boys need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. That said, the Katowice Arena is really big and there are a lot of people there. There is a possibility that he heard yelling crowd when the LOL game ended on the stage close by. Who knows, we don't know as there is no conclusive evidence to support his claim not is anyone else complaining. Being highly critical and straight up bashing the whole IEM finals is quite stupid so hold your horses fan boys.
According to Kennigit's tweet, other players are laughing at him.
I liked Naniwa, i wanted him to be successful, i cheered him on and celebrated his victories
I work a normal job, i have no passion for it, like all the jobs i've had i do it because they hired me and pay me more than anyone else at the moment. Motivation is a constant struggle. When i've had issues in my personal life it has made motivation for my job almost non-existent. When everything is going well motivation is much easier. I get a kick from doing a good job, i get a kick from positive feedback, i get a kick from knowing my work mates appreciate me being there and helping make their day better
If you cant find the motivation to be excellent at something, especially something as awesome as starcraft - to feel the warm fuzzys of having tens of thousands of fans on your twitter, to feel the elation of the roar of the crowd happy to see you succeed...no matter the state of the game if you cant find motivation to be a pro-starcraft player i think its a safe assumption something else is going on behind the scenes
I think some compassion and understand is needed for the dude - i hope he can get his sh!t together and find a way to still pursue excellence in some form
still - just like idra, you dont play the game anymore you are dead to me, unfollowed, wishing Nani the best in the future
Get off his case guys. Its naniwa. Seriously surprised? This is the same reason why so many hate him and so many love him. Its easy to be and spectator and talk. Good luck nani. Smile.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
How about you read the thread OP, then? Why are you even posting in the thread if you don't know what everyone is complaining about?
Freedom of speech?
You'll excuse me if I discard your opinion as uninformed then.
Man, you ask me a non-serious question, I answer the same
On March 15 2014 03:55 AsnSensation wrote: I feel like its always the poor polt that has to put up with this shitter xD, i think hes faced nani not gging or handhsaking several times now?
Yeah that's right:D And he also played that infamous game against Idra (Idra left 200/200 vs 200/200)? Or was it TaeJa can't remember..
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
How about you read the thread OP, then? Why are you even posting in the thread if you don't know what everyone is complaining about?
Freedom of speech?
Haha, really?
Ontopic: Just reading the op, this doesnt seem very positive for Naniwa. I can fully understand his frustration, thinking the cabin isnt soundproof, but i think there are two sides. Suppose the organization guy doesnt agree with him. Would you change the set up of both booths mid-series for a reason you don't agree with? I sure wouldn't. If Naniwa's right, which we don't know (or i dont at least), the organization should take responsibility, whatever consequences that may have. I don't think forfeiting like this is a solution to anything.
So long naniwhine - crowned GM of BM. You will not be missed. Don't let the door hit you on the way out! And as for all you foolish fanboys, what say you now...? King of the North? No, I think Queen of the Unemployment line.
On March 15 2014 04:01 dsousa wrote: Naniwa pulled a NASL and quit mid tournament.
SC2 fans are going to develop a complex over all this abandonment.
Hahaha, it seems that they are already mid-way. I've seen some highly up-voted comments on reddit claiming that "Naniwa may not be mentally health, it may be serious, and we should feel compassion toward him"
I truly think that even though Naniwa bitches quite often and seems to be a real dick somtimes, we shouldn't threat the only foreigner to perform well, like this. He is a bad loser but a good winner. Sadly we only see one side of the coin.
i really love the reaction of the crowd, naniwa should have vacated the spot a month ago and deserves every amount of spite that now goes his way, no doubt he managed to multiply it once again!
On March 15 2014 04:03 Fleshcut wrote: I truly think that even though Naniwa bitches quite often and seems to be a real dick somtimes, we shouldn't threat the only foreigner to perform well like this. He is a bad loser but a good winner. Sadly we only see one side of the coin.
God bless people like Fleshcut and give others a bit more of rational thinking. Please?
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
wtf... you never, never, NEVER were a fan of naniwa. every true fan knows, that naniwa does not give any stinking shit about "sportsmanship" or stuff like that.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
wtf... you never, never, NEVER were a fan of naniwa. every true fan knows, that naniwa does not give any stinking shit about "sportsmanship" or stuff like that.
You can be a fan of the talent and hope that he puts the rest of it together in time, no?
On March 15 2014 04:03 Naphal wrote: i really love the reaction of the crowd, naniwa should have vacated the spot a month ago and deserves every amount of spite that now goes his way, no doubt he managed to multiply it once again!
No, I don't think it was a good reaction, cause it just gave too much attention to Naniwa ATM.
Anyway, I will copy what I wrote before to answer the second part of your message:
Naniwa has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
It would have been a good idea to forfeit the spot earlier, especially in a 100k winner takes all tournament. He stated he hasn't really been playing for quite some time now, so there was basically no way in hell he'd take 1st. It'd have been pretty cool to have HasuObs as a replacement (3rd in the open qualifier), but honestly, I see there being little difference. I truly don't think HasuObs would win the whole thing, so it does not concern me that much.
I think this is sort of like a nice punishment for IEM (not that the two are that connected) for having a winner-takes-all format with their prize pool. Naniwa doesn't give two shits about his reputation, especially now, so he had nothing to lose!!
Well, I do understand why NaNi got upset if he seriously believed that his cheese was revealed by the crowd and lack of soundproofing. I once even wrote an essay for one of my university courses about agon (competitive) and spectacle aspects of e-sports based on the NaNiWa-NesTea incident, in which I concluded that NaNi only cared about the competition and not about fans, entertainment etc., so if he felt that the competition was somehow unfair, it's not surprising that he reacted in his own unique way - that is, overreacted by far.
My problem is not with him shitting on the soundproofing, because I believe it might have been the actual cause of his behaviour, not a silly excuse to forfeit as some people say. The problem is in the fact that he is seemingly unable to contain his emotional outbursts or at least to prevent them from deeply affecting his behaviour. This is something I can sympathise with - deep emotional problems suck - but still it ruins the tournament, so should not happen.
Maybe it'd be better if he retired, both for his own psyche and for us all. Or at least he should take a long break, go to some light therapy, find a girl/new hobby/goal in life. The way he is now, he's hurting himself (if, as is my thesis, he's a competition-obsessed person and his emotions prevent him from being competitive) and all the other people involved.
On March 15 2014 04:03 Naphal wrote: i really love the reaction of the crowd, naniwa should have vacated the spot a month ago and deserves every amount of spite that now goes his way, no doubt he managed to multiply it once again!
No, I don't think it was a good reaction, cause it just gave too much attention to Naniwa ATM.
Anyway, I will copy what I wrote before to answer the second part of your message:
Naniwa has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
People aren't fast to judge. This is all completely in line with judgement that have been made since before his GSL incident.
LOL were all the players really laughing at him? Rumor has it he is considering a career in professional football (soccer). You cant really compare Naniwa to Idra. Idra played zerg required skill.
After a meltdown like this, it looks like Naniwa's SC2 career will probably be in about the same shape as Heath Ledger's and Harold Ramis's acting careers.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
wtf... you never, never, NEVER were a fan of naniwa. every true fan knows, that naniwa does not give any stinking shit about "sportsmanship" or stuff like that.
You don't decide whether or not I am or was a fan of someone, nor do you get to decide who is a "true fan" and who isn't. I was willing to look past much of the stuff Naniwa pulled because his mindset and singular devotion to becoming a champion was inspiring, but there is a limit to what I can shrug off. Naniwa may not give much of a shit about sportsmanship (although he on several occasions claimed that he had learned to), but I do. I do not have to think like Naniwa to be a fan of him.
If Naniwa would have shown some effort he would have gotten the same treatment. This crowd is fair and Naniwa is a pubescent, whiner.
That is the last thing I'll say about Naniwa's action at this tournament.
I don't think they would have applauded Naniwa, but Polt, the winner, of that series. But the crowd is not at fault. If you are sitting in an audience, you react in a different way than in front of your screen, alone, drinking too much beer. It's just that they didn't consider the fact that Naniwa is about to retire anyway and the games he brought us. If this really was his last appearence, then it doesn't fit his career. The crowd SHOULD HAVE considered that BUT I see why they haven't. We should ignore the audience and instead focus on the situation itself. That's what we - the screen-dwellers - can do better than any crowd but apparently we don't.
FYI: I truly have any protoss player! So don't think I say this because I'm a Naniwa fanboy or something. It is just my way of thinking.
I consider myself a fan of NaNiwa's play, I loved watching when he was at his best. That didn't stop me from face-palming everytime I saw him do something ridiculous (probe rush, any of a thousand instances of BM, constantly complaining about balance, etc.). Given his past behavior, I am not surprised by him pulling out (and blaming something else), but it was pretty class-less way to go about it (surprise!). He should have pulled out ahead of time, which would have allowed another open bracket spot. HasuObs played really well yesterday and should have played Polt today. The two of them got the shit end of the stick on this one and hopefully the strange circumstances do not somehow affect Polt's play tomorrow.
I also would not be surprised if he never plays again, and I'm not just talking about professionally, because his main issue (SH) will never get taken out or changed to the effect that he wants. Sorry it had to end this way, especially after his good showings last year.
Tl;dr: Love NaNiwa's play, don't like the attitude. Probably witnessed the end of his career a few hours ago. Not sure how I feel about it yet.
On March 15 2014 04:13 LibertyRises wrote: LOL were all the players really laughing at him? Rumor has it he is considering a career in professional football (soccer). You cant really compare Naniwa to Idra. Idra played zerg required skill.
Dont tase me bro.
loooool are you a newbie? naniwa played undead, and this was the weakest race, just for your information. ^^
On March 15 2014 04:03 Naphal wrote: i really love the reaction of the crowd, naniwa should have vacated the spot a month ago and deserves every amount of spite that now goes his way, no doubt he managed to multiply it once again!
No, I don't think it was a good reaction, cause it just gave too much attention to Naniwa ATM.
Anyway, I will copy what I wrote before to answer the second part of your message:
Naniwa has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I agree it was Naniwa's right to keep the spot, no doubt.
I think its <1% that Naniwa planned for this to happen, I think, deep down, he knew he couldn't beat Polt and he found a quick way out.
When was the bracket release? When Naniwa drew Polt.... thats when, subconsciously, he started looking for a way out. His behaviour then manifested his "way out".
The proxy in the first game is also an indicator of wanting to quit and get it over quick.
Whether the booth was soundproof or not is irrelevant. Naniwa has time and time again displayed some really bad manners and disrespectful behaviour and this is no different. Other players have experienced issues with non-soundproff booths before and they have not walked out from the tournament.
I've always wondered how one can actually root for such dispicle individual as Naniwa. If he hadn't shown his true colours at earlier occasions he sure has done so now. What he did extremely immature and and a flat out mockery towards the the audience, the whole torunament and last but not least all those fans who was still rooting for him despite his history.
Viewership goes nuts when Naniwa has been playing. Like it or not, people desperately want to see him above anyone else, him going away is a big loss for SC2.
This is not about fans. Its about nani. Gime him a break. He is a person. A complicated one. He has given too much to the community already (or the community has taken it?) Enjoy your break.
On March 15 2014 04:03 Naphal wrote: i really love the reaction of the crowd, naniwa should have vacated the spot a month ago and deserves every amount of spite that now goes his way, no doubt he managed to multiply it once again!
No, I don't think it was a good reaction, cause it just gave too much attention to Naniwa ATM.
Anyway, I will copy what I wrote before to answer the second part of your message:
Naniwa has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I agree it was Naniwa's right to keep the spot, no doubt.
I think its <1% that Naniwa planned for this to happen, I think, deep down, he knew he couldn't beat Polt and he found a quick way out.
When was the bracket release? When Naniwa drew Polt.... thats when, subconsciously, he started looking for a way out. His behaviour then manifested his "way out".
The proxy in the first game is also an indicator of wanting to quit and get it over quick.
Naniwa knows winning is the only thing keeping him in SC2, and he wants out.
Yup. That's a good analysis. Yet people will hate him because it fits them. Naniwa is egocentric and the crowd is egocentric. Real world is not beautiful.
On March 15 2014 04:03 Naphal wrote: i really love the reaction of the crowd, naniwa should have vacated the spot a month ago and deserves every amount of spite that now goes his way, no doubt he managed to multiply it once again!
No, I don't think it was a good reaction, cause it just gave too much attention to Naniwa ATM.
Anyway, I will copy what I wrote before to answer the second part of your message:
Naniwa has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
Yeah he has rights to do whatever he wants, does not mean people have to like it.
If he came in today, not prepared to win, to even try to win, then why even come today? He has said that he hasn't been playing lately, so why even come to the IEM World Championship unprepared? Forfeit that spot even though he earned that spot at IEM New York. His accomplishments do not matter. What he has done in the past for SC2 does not matter other than the fact that he qualified for this event through IEM New York.
He doesn't owe anyone anything, but he just wasted everyone's time. He disappointed a lot of the fans that came to see him and the ones who were excited to see the best foreigner play against one of the best Koreans. Naniwa does deserve the boos that he got at the venue. While he has had a great career in SC2, it's unfortunate that this had to happen. Especially considering that this may be the end of his career.
On March 15 2014 04:20 KaiserJohan wrote: Viewership goes nuts when Naniwa has been playing. Like it or not, people desperately want to see him above anyone else, him going away is a big loss for SC2.
Yes, but really many root for him mostly because he's been one of the best foreigners. His personal has always been secondary to the fact that he has some big wins and was a threat to top Koreans.
If Naniwa leaves, it creates a space for a new foreign hope.
....
but ya, some foreigner will need to keep up. Nani was literally only non KR in IEM bracket.
I remember someone talking about bad soundproofing and the influence on the games. This was not nanivas first tournament, no matter if his cheese got revealed or not, he sould have known.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
wtf... you never, never, NEVER were a fan of naniwa. every true fan knows, that naniwa does not give any stinking shit about "sportsmanship" or stuff like that.
You don't decide whether or not I am or was a fan of someone, nor do you get to decide who is a "true fan" and who isn't. I was willing to look past much of the stuff Naniwa pulled because his mindset and singular devotion to becoming a champion was inspiring, but there is a limit to what I can shrug off. Naniwa may not give much of a shit about sportsmanship (although he on several occasions claimed that he had learned to), but I do. I do not have to think like Naniwa to be a fan of him.
no, i can not decide if you were a fan of naniwa or not. in my opinion "beeing a true fan" just means more than "i liked his playstyle / skill / effort".
Naniwa should of checked on soundproofing before executing such a strategy. Alternatively, Polt could have proxied and Naniwa would have been alerted - my point is that the conditions were still fair. Naniwa greatly disrespects the foreign community and his Korean competitors with his arrogance. Imho, GTFO Naniwa.
On March 15 2014 04:27 Gen.Rolly wrote: Naniwa should of checked on soundproofing before executing such a strategy. Alternatively, Polt could have proxied and Naniwa would have been alerted - my point is that the conditions were still fair. Naniwa greatly disrespects the foreign community and his Korean competitors with his arrogance. Imho, GTFO Naniwa.
Wasn't a soundproofing issue. Polt scouts that way frequently.
1) Players have a right to forfeit. 2) All players are competing under the same circumstances - the same environment. 3) Nani has lost the little face he had left but found a substantial beergut to compensate. 4) Making a mountain out of a molehill is never wise. 5) When in doubt blame others for your own failings. 6) If a black sheep bleats in a lonely paddock and no one hears him, does he exist? 7) IEM Katowice and HoTS are super!!!
On March 15 2014 04:22 ThePlagueJG wrote: I respect a lot of the people in this thread, its been a lot more rewarding to read than reddit this time around(feels like pure hate and no reason).
Some of these haters will calm down with time, others will never get it. In a way, it's a natural selection
TBH this isnt the first time naniwa invented some arbitrary reason why the tournament stage computers are unacceptable in some way, and he has been talking about having no passion and never practicing.
I don't blame soundproofing for him losing a game to polt with a completely amateur strategy and execution, and I really do hope we don't see any more Naniwa. He just does not seem happy to be part of the community or really care if he gets a chance to play on stage. Starcraft 2 isn't in a place where we can support obnoxious bad boys anymore.
On March 15 2014 04:22 ThePlagueJG wrote: I respect a lot of the people in this thread, its been a lot more rewarding to read than reddit this time around(feels like pure hate and no reason).
Some of these haters will calm down with time, others will never get it. In a way, it's a natural selection
I'm not even a Naniwa fan but I feel bad for him. Look at this mess over the past couple of days - I hope someone from Alliance at least attempted to reach out to him.
I dont get these exaggerated reactions. Sure he acted somehow pussy-like, but he wasnt rude or something, it was his good right to forfeit his match.
He should do something he likes in his life. Atm he has this incredible negative attitude and vibe. Give your life another direction, do something you like and witch makes you happy.
On March 15 2014 04:37 darkscream wrote: TBH this isnt the first time naniwa invented some arbitrary reason why the tournament stage computers are unacceptable in some way, and he has been talking about having no passion and never practicing.
I don't blame soundproofing for him losing a game to polt with a completely amateur strategy and execution, and I really do hope we don't see any more Naniwa. He just does not seem happy to be part of the community or really care if he gets a chance to play on stage. Starcraft 2 isn't in a place where we can support obnoxious bad boys anymore.
Now that Naniwa is gone, the only people you'll be supporting are Koreans. You literally won't see another foreigner in a big tournament anymore.
On March 15 2014 01:26 Firkraag8 wrote: The way he went about it was inappropriate, but if he could hear the crowd then he has a legitimate reason to be upset if then also the admin wouldn't hear his side of it.
Well...what did he do that was inappropriate then? Leaving a tourny that has no legitimacy is the correct call, as is arguing with the admin about the problems. Mentioning it on live isnt really that much of an issue either, because it at the very least ensures the crowd knows exactly whats going on, right away. It's also obviously him venting in frustration, which is again fair, if his claim is true.
On March 15 2014 04:48 azzih wrote: I dont get these exaggerated reactions. Sure he acted somehow pussy-like, but he wasnt rude or something, it was his good right to forfeit his match.
He should do something he likes in his life. Atm he has this incredible negative attitude and vibe. Give your life another direction, do something you like and witch makes you happy.
Yes, but he knew he had lost interest going into the tournament. I'm a die hard Naniwa fan, but if the guy doesn't want to play, then don't fucking play. But don't show up and do this shit. Should have left the spot to Hasuobs if he wasn't even going to try.
On March 15 2014 02:32 Ansinjunger wrote: If it's true Naniwa said he took the spot to take advantage of the hotel, that's pretty dishonest. He's shown quite a bit of disregard for fans/his fans. I don't know why people are defending him. That's not to say he's unforgivable--that goes too far, but right now, he's wronged the audience and there's no point making excuses.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
wtf... you never, never, NEVER were a fan of naniwa. every true fan knows, that naniwa does not give any stinking shit about "sportsmanship" or stuff like that.
You don't decide whether or not I am or was a fan of someone, nor do you get to decide who is a "true fan" and who isn't. I was willing to look past much of the stuff Naniwa pulled because his mindset and singular devotion to becoming a champion was inspiring, but there is a limit to what I can shrug off. Naniwa may not give much of a shit about sportsmanship (although he on several occasions claimed that he had learned to), but I do. I do not have to think like Naniwa to be a fan of him.
no, i can not decide if you were a fan of naniwa or not. in my opinion "beeing a true fan" just means more than "i liked his playstyle / skill / effort".
On March 15 2014 04:37 darkscream wrote: TBH this isnt the first time naniwa invented some arbitrary reason why the tournament stage computers are unacceptable in some way, and he has been talking about having no passion and never practicing.
I don't blame soundproofing for him losing a game to polt with a completely amateur strategy and execution, and I really do hope we don't see any more Naniwa. He just does not seem happy to be part of the community or really care if he gets a chance to play on stage. Starcraft 2 isn't in a place where we can support obnoxious bad boys anymore.
Now that Naniwa is gone, the only people you'll be supporting are Koreans. You literally won't see another foreigner in a big tournament anymore.
Did Scarlett die or something?!
Also, the people we cheered for in BW were all Korean, and that never mattered to anyone. Yes, foreigners did compete, and Guillaume won the first OSL, but foreigners simply could not compete at that level (or chose not to) for the vast majority of BW's professional lifetime. (BW isn't dead to me, as long as we have people like Sonic, and Sayle!)
Seriously, the last time a non-korean played in Proleague was like, 2004. That did not matter.
Soundproofing issues or not he's a quitter and super egocentric. He could have easily forfeited his invitation to IEM prior to the event and allowed someone else to fill in his spot. I don't buy the shit about "well he earned his right to be in the tournament so he can do whatever he wants". Give me a f**king break. It should be an honor to play in an event on a scale as large as this and if you are going into the tournament with piss poor shit attitude then he should have never attended to begin with.
Sad Naniwa couldn't get through his issues. He was the only foreigner I ever felt had the capability to beat or dominate any player when he was on his A game. He pioneered many strategies, made wins out of absolute losses (often after completely wasting an army or something), and was really something special. He always stood out and above a player like stephano for me, no matter what the balance issues were, when his A game was up he was amazing.
Sad his childishness plagued his career, but I feel a lot of foreign pros sacrifice a lot of growing up, getting caught up in the game, practicing, and the attention that comes with it.
Anyways, he has plenty of time to try to grow up now if he feels like it, and he showed a lot of great games.
On March 15 2014 04:03 Naphal wrote: i really love the reaction of the crowd, naniwa should have vacated the spot a month ago and deserves every amount of spite that now goes his way, no doubt he managed to multiply it once again!
No, I don't think it was a good reaction, cause it just gave too much attention to Naniwa ATM.
Anyway, I will copy what I wrote before to answer the second part of your message:
Naniwa has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I agree it was Naniwa's right to keep the spot, no doubt.
I think its <1% that Naniwa planned for this to happen, I think, deep down, he knew he couldn't beat Polt and he found a quick way out.
When was the bracket release? When Naniwa drew Polt.... thats when, subconsciously, he started looking for a way out. His behaviour then manifested his "way out".
The proxy in the first game is also an indicator of wanting to quit and get it over quick.
Naniwa knows winning is the only thing keeping him in SC2, and he wants out.
Yup. That's a good analysis. Yet people will hate him because it fits them. Naniwa is egocentric and the crowd is egocentric. Real world is not beautiful.
Fairly certain that this all started before the release of brackets.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
wtf... you never, never, NEVER were a fan of naniwa. every true fan knows, that naniwa does not give any stinking shit about "sportsmanship" or stuff like that.
You don't decide whether or not I am or was a fan of someone, nor do you get to decide who is a "true fan" and who isn't. I was willing to look past much of the stuff Naniwa pulled because his mindset and singular devotion to becoming a champion was inspiring, but there is a limit to what I can shrug off. Naniwa may not give much of a shit about sportsmanship (although he on several occasions claimed that he had learned to), but I do. I do not have to think like Naniwa to be a fan of him.
no, i can not decide if you were a fan of naniwa or not. in my opinion "beeing a true fan" just means more than "i liked his playstyle / skill / effort".
So what does it mean to be a fan, exactly?
Duh you have to scream "Naniwa kun please notice meeee" in a tsundere voice in hope you grab his attention. Then hide your face if he sees you, update your status on facebook that he might like you.
On March 15 2014 04:37 darkscream wrote: TBH this isnt the first time naniwa invented some arbitrary reason why the tournament stage computers are unacceptable in some way, and he has been talking about having no passion and never practicing.
I don't blame soundproofing for him losing a game to polt with a completely amateur strategy and execution, and I really do hope we don't see any more Naniwa. He just does not seem happy to be part of the community or really care if he gets a chance to play on stage. Starcraft 2 isn't in a place where we can support obnoxious bad boys anymore.
Now that Naniwa is gone, the only people you'll be supporting are Koreans. You literally won't see another foreigner in a big tournament anymore.
Did Scarlett die or something?!
Also, the people we cheered for in BW were all Korean, and that never mattered to anyone. Yes, foreigners did compete, and Guillaume won the first OSL, but foreigners simply could not compete at that level (or chose not to) for the vast majority of BW's professional lifetime. (BW isn't dead to me, as long as we have people like Sonic, and Sayle!)
Seriously, the last time a non-korean played in Proleague was like, 2004. That did not matter.
1. Scarlett is amazing but let me know when she makes a global finals. 2. The BW fanbase is not the same as the SC2 fanbase. Can we agree on that? SC2 is much more decentralized than BW and foreigner success contributes greatly to the game's popularity.
On March 15 2014 05:08 Sapphire.lux wrote: Difficult to tell if he is a genuine arse or just an unhappy kid. I hope he will continue playing though as he is one of the best foreigner out there.
Why are the two mutually exclusive? He's been a genuine arse the entire time he's been on the scene, even if he is unhappy now that doesn't really excuse past or current behavior.
Is the a VOD of the winners interview with Polt that followed this? Interested to hear if he can vouch for the sound thing or if it was just a good scout.
I don't understand people like you. You think that you deserve something, because of what exactly? Because you seat in the front of computer watching? Who are you?
Naniwa earned whatever he had. He wanted to win and only to win. There is only one God in tournaments like that. It's the competition. Naniwa was giving all to the competition. What the hell gave you???
He certainly gave his all today.
Your memory is one-day long or what?
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
wtf... you never, never, NEVER were a fan of naniwa. every true fan knows, that naniwa does not give any stinking shit about "sportsmanship" or stuff like that.
You don't decide whether or not I am or was a fan of someone, nor do you get to decide who is a "true fan" and who isn't. I was willing to look past much of the stuff Naniwa pulled because his mindset and singular devotion to becoming a champion was inspiring, but there is a limit to what I can shrug off. Naniwa may not give much of a shit about sportsmanship (although he on several occasions claimed that he had learned to), but I do. I do not have to think like Naniwa to be a fan of him.
no, i can not decide if you were a fan of naniwa or not. in my opinion "beeing a true fan" just means more than "i liked his playstyle / skill / effort".
So what does it mean to be a fan, exactly?
beeing a fan means to like someone, because he is like he is. naniwa always was an asshole, he is acting like one for over 7 esport years. true fans know that, and like him anyway, because they understand his attitude.
ps: i am no fan of naniwa, i am a hater since 2007.
On March 15 2014 05:13 Grobyc wrote: Is the a VOD of the winners interview with Polt that followed this? Interested to hear if he can vouch for the sound thing or if it was just a good scout.
pretty sure Polt would have scouted that way regardless, the crowd wasn't the reason he found the gate. still, that doesn't mean that naniwa's complaint wasn't legit. did polt win because crowd noise? absolutely not. was naniwa right to whine about the booths? who knows, any of the players that were in those booths today could tell us.
On March 15 2014 04:37 darkscream wrote: TBH this isnt the first time naniwa invented some arbitrary reason why the tournament stage computers are unacceptable in some way, and he has been talking about having no passion and never practicing.
I don't blame soundproofing for him losing a game to polt with a completely amateur strategy and execution, and I really do hope we don't see any more Naniwa. He just does not seem happy to be part of the community or really care if he gets a chance to play on stage. Starcraft 2 isn't in a place where we can support obnoxious bad boys anymore.
Now that Naniwa is gone, the only people you'll be supporting are Koreans. You literally won't see another foreigner in a big tournament anymore.
Did Scarlett die or something?!
Also, the people we cheered for in BW were all Korean, and that never mattered to anyone. Yes, foreigners did compete, and Guillaume won the first OSL, but foreigners simply could not compete at that level (or chose not to) for the vast majority of BW's professional lifetime. (BW isn't dead to me, as long as we have people like Sonic, and Sayle!)
Seriously, the last time a non-korean played in Proleague was like, 2004. That did not matter.
I would also argue Scarlett is on the same level as Naniwa. She plays a different race so you cannot equate the two beyond a shadow of a doubt. Also, just so you have your facts clear, Stephano went 6-5 in sc2 Proleague (with wins over herO, sOs, ZerO, etc).
I can't believe people are comparing naniwa to Zidane. Zidane was a champ and despite red card in a very controversial situation (not because he got a red card but what and why exactly happend) he was leaving the stadium with standing ovations from whole stadium because that's what he deserved for end of his career. And if anyone thinks worse of Zidane because of that incident, I don't understand why. He was classy before, he was classy after and from what was told he stood up for his family when he got the red card. Naniwa? I'm afraid he never stood up for anyone but himself.
On March 15 2014 04:37 darkscream wrote: TBH this isnt the first time naniwa invented some arbitrary reason why the tournament stage computers are unacceptable in some way, and he has been talking about having no passion and never practicing.
I don't blame soundproofing for him losing a game to polt with a completely amateur strategy and execution, and I really do hope we don't see any more Naniwa. He just does not seem happy to be part of the community or really care if he gets a chance to play on stage. Starcraft 2 isn't in a place where we can support obnoxious bad boys anymore.
Now that Naniwa is gone, the only people you'll be supporting are Koreans. You literally won't see another foreigner in a big tournament anymore.
Did Scarlett die or something?!
Also, the people we cheered for in BW were all Korean, and that never mattered to anyone. Yes, foreigners did compete, and Guillaume won the first OSL, but foreigners simply could not compete at that level (or chose not to) for the vast majority of BW's professional lifetime. (BW isn't dead to me, as long as we have people like Sonic, and Sayle!)
Seriously, the last time a non-korean played in Proleague was like, 2004. That did not matter.
1. Scarlett is amazing but let me know when she makes a global finals. 2. The BW fanbase is not the same as the SC2 fanbase. Can we agree on that? SC2 is much more decentralized than BW and foreigner success contributes greatly to the game's popularity.
Yes, you are correct on your first point. She is amazing, but has yet to reach heights that Naniwa has in his prime form.
As for the second, I agree with that whole-heatedly. I think it's a little sad, personally, but you are completely right.
SC2 is far, far more decentralized. But even with the utter domination of Koreans, foreigners had their own tournaments, their own scene, in a way. I'm sure people lamented the lack of a truly competitive non-Korean, and Idra raised the hopes of those people when he traveled to Korea to pursue progaming.
Even now, ex-pros and sospa players will destroy the best player outside of Korea (Sziky), but...that just isn't a big deal? People still play, and still compete, because they love it. Do high level foreign BW players even care that they aren't in sospa tournaments?
Most of that is a little rambly, my apologies. I do completely agree with the points that you made, though.
I can't remember a time I thought Naniwa didn't have a shit attitude, all the way through WC3, WoL and now HotS. He's always been a dick and it was kind of annoying to me to see so many people support him simply because he was good at starcraft. I personally can't in good conscience support rude dickheads.
On March 15 2014 04:37 darkscream wrote: TBH this isnt the first time naniwa invented some arbitrary reason why the tournament stage computers are unacceptable in some way, and he has been talking about having no passion and never practicing.
I don't blame soundproofing for him losing a game to polt with a completely amateur strategy and execution, and I really do hope we don't see any more Naniwa. He just does not seem happy to be part of the community or really care if he gets a chance to play on stage. Starcraft 2 isn't in a place where we can support obnoxious bad boys anymore.
Now that Naniwa is gone, the only people you'll be supporting are Koreans. You literally won't see another foreigner in a big tournament anymore.
Did Scarlett die or something?!
Also, the people we cheered for in BW were all Korean, and that never mattered to anyone. Yes, foreigners did compete, and Guillaume won the first OSL, but foreigners simply could not compete at that level (or chose not to) for the vast majority of BW's professional lifetime. (BW isn't dead to me, as long as we have people like Sonic, and Sayle!)
Seriously, the last time a non-korean played in Proleague was like, 2004. That did not matter.
I would also argue Scarlett is on the same level as Naniwa. She plays a different race so you cannot equate the two beyond a shadow of a doubt. Also, just so you have your facts clear, Stephano went 6-5 in sc2 Proleague (with wins over herO, sOs, ZerO, etc).
Thank you for correctly me so politely. =) But I can assure you I do not need to be reminded of what Stephano accomplished. I was speaking of BW specifically for the proleague example, but was not as clear as I could have been.
On March 15 2014 01:26 Firkraag8 wrote: The way he went about it was inappropriate, but if he could hear the crowd then he has a legitimate reason to be upset if then also the admin wouldn't hear his side of it.
LOL swedes will always try to find way to defend their hero, even now .. wow..
I'm glad the autist is finally out, it took long enough
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
wtf... you never, never, NEVER were a fan of naniwa. every true fan knows, that naniwa does not give any stinking shit about "sportsmanship" or stuff like that.
You don't decide whether or not I am or was a fan of someone, nor do you get to decide who is a "true fan" and who isn't. I was willing to look past much of the stuff Naniwa pulled because his mindset and singular devotion to becoming a champion was inspiring, but there is a limit to what I can shrug off. Naniwa may not give much of a shit about sportsmanship (although he on several occasions claimed that he had learned to), but I do. I do not have to think like Naniwa to be a fan of him.
no, i can not decide if you were a fan of naniwa or not. in my opinion "beeing a true fan" just means more than "i liked his playstyle / skill / effort".
So what does it mean to be a fan, exactly?
beeing a fan means to like someone, because he is like he is. naniwa always was an asshole, he is acting like one for over 7 esport years. true fans know that, and like him anyway, because they understand his attitude.
ps: i am no fan of naniwa, i am a hater since 2007.
It's true. Zealously is a conditional fan, a Starcraft 2 fan, or a fair-weather fan.
Fan is short for fanatic, so Naniwa fans are just fanatically into him - as a person. Starcraft 2 or Protoss fans might have appreciated his play at some point, but they aren't Naniwa fans unless they're able to fully ignore his irrational, self-destructive behaviour. Being fanatical about something means being blind to reason when it concerns your idol. Being a Naniwa fan means defending that which cannot be defended; if you are happy to admit that you are a living contradiction, or were at some point, then bam! Naniwa fan.
Now, I'm a long-time Bomber fan, a Cella fan, and a Ryung fan ever since he popped up on Cella's stream one day at the SlayerS house - before his debut at GSTL. Nothing they can do will ever be wrong. They are the best, even if they're not. I will defend them, even if I end up looking like a complete idiot.
I can't say I hate Naniwa, but I am no fan, and never was. He played some great games, but who didn't who rose up to his level and stayed there for a while? Having played well doesn't make acting like a child forgivable, nor should I support his "free-spirited" demeanor. He took someone else's spot who would have given it their all.
On March 15 2014 04:46 Clicker wrote: I'm not even a Naniwa fan but I feel bad for him. Look at this mess over the past couple of days - I hope someone from Alliance at least attempted to reach out to him.
No need to feel bad for him. He's always been kind of a douche. Like someone else already said, Naniwa is just a better playing version Idra.
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
wtf... you never, never, NEVER were a fan of naniwa. every true fan knows, that naniwa does not give any stinking shit about "sportsmanship" or stuff like that.
You don't decide whether or not I am or was a fan of someone, nor do you get to decide who is a "true fan" and who isn't. I was willing to look past much of the stuff Naniwa pulled because his mindset and singular devotion to becoming a champion was inspiring, but there is a limit to what I can shrug off. Naniwa may not give much of a shit about sportsmanship (although he on several occasions claimed that he had learned to), but I do. I do not have to think like Naniwa to be a fan of him.
no, i can not decide if you were a fan of naniwa or not. in my opinion "beeing a true fan" just means more than "i liked his playstyle / skill / effort".
So what does it mean to be a fan, exactly?
beeing a fan means to like someone, because he is like he is. naniwa always was an asshole, he is acting like one for over 7 esport years. true fans know that, and like him anyway, because they understand his attitude.
ps: i am no fan of naniwa, i am a hater since 2007.
It's true. Zealously is a conditional fan, a Starcraft 2 fan, or a fair-weather fan.
Fan is short for fanatic, so Naniwa fans are just fanatically into him - as a person. Starcraft 2 or Protoss fans might have appreciated his play at some point, but they aren't Naniwa fans unless they're able to fully ignore his irrational, self-destructive behaviour. Being fanatical about something means being blind to reason when it concerns your idol. Being a Naniwa fan means defending that which cannot be defended; if you are happy to admit that you are a living contradiction, or were at some point, then bam! Naniwa fan.
Now, I'm a long-time Bomber fan, a Cella fan, and a Ryung fan ever since he popped up on Cella's stream one day at the SlayerS house - before his debut at GSTL. Nothing they can do will ever be wrong. They are the best, even if they're not. I will defend them, even if I end up looking like a complete idiot.
I can't say I hate Naniwa, but I am no fan, and never was. He played some great games, but who didn't who rose up to his level and stayed there for a while? Having played well doesn't make acting like a child forgivable, nor should I support his "free-spirited" demeanor. He took someone else's spot who would have given it their all.
And I don't have to support players who aren't good enough to qualify for IEM in the first place.
I cannot understand why some people still take NaNiwa's side on this issue. What he did is completely disrespectful to Polt, IEM, the crowd, and himself. He may have produced some good games during his career, but I will not call him a good player as he does not even have the sportsmanship to qualify as a professional player. Good riddance.
On March 15 2014 01:32 vult wrote: Cant really see any team pick him up given that attitude, honestly this is worse PR and behavior than IdrA's forum post that eventually led to EG releasing him.
I see his retirement being permanent.
idra wasn't released for that forum post, he was left EG on his own terms even though they offered him another contract (well i believe they offered another one).
Do players at IEM Katowice receive WCS points? If so is it also a T1/T2 event? If so I wonder what blizzards reaction will be. We may actually get to find out how they precisely define their perception of the "sound dampening" that's required. See: https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/A3JHSFLANAZW1384955808934.jpg
As far as Naniwa himself is concerned it is a lot more difficult to form an opinion as to whether or not this was the right thing for him to choose. What I would say is that Naniwa himself is the best source to draw from.
Lastly lets not forget that Johan has shown us that he has the ability and drive to remind ourselves of and to check our assumptions and preconceived notions regarding the skill, opportunity and determination required to succeed at the highest level with this game. How highly you should regard that is subjective.
On March 15 2014 05:34 newbornducky wrote: I cannot understand why some people still take NaNiwa's side on this issue. What he did is completely disrespectful to Polt, IEM, the crowd, and himself. He may have produced some good games during his career, but I will not call him a good player as he does not even have the sportsmanship to qualify as a professional player. Good riddance.
He's been the best foreigner player regardless of whether you call him that or not. Some things are just facts.
On March 15 2014 01:32 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Good riddance. I used to be indifferent to Naniwa despite all the hate he received but now I just don't even like the guy anymore. He's been a total asshat one too many times for me.
My exact thoughts and stance on him now. As far as I am concerned, I hope he doesn't return.
Honestly, I wonder if the people who keep defending Naniwa's behaviour behave as horribly as he does in public. There isn't a single reason why anyone should excuse him.
I've been a fan of Naniwa for three straight years, ever since he won that MLG going undefeated and not losing a single map until the final. There's no doubt that he, along with Stephano, have been the best foreigners over that period. He's been the only foreigner at several events. He was the only one qualifying for Blizzcon, albeit barely. He was the only one qualifying for this IEM. Nani made it clear very early that he wasn't here for the fans or the audience. He was here because he wanted to be the best. He did all of this for himself, not for you or for me. Let me say it again. HE MADE IT CLEAR VERY EARLY IN HIS CAREER. Now that he's probably retiring, everyone jumps on him and insults him, calls him a kid for being selfish. Did you guys start watching SC2 in 2014?
This wasn't a nice way of going out, but it was the nani-way. Also, about the soundproofing. Impossible to know if it had anything to do with what Polt did in the game, but clearly Naniwa heard the crowd/casters and assumed Polt could too.
On March 15 2014 01:26 Firkraag8 wrote: The way he went about it was inappropriate, but if he could hear the crowd then he has a legitimate reason to be upset if then also the admin wouldn't hear his side of it.
LOL swedes will always try to find way to defend their hero, even now .. wow..
I'm glad the autist is finally out, it took long enough
.......he wasnt defending his "hero"......you even pointed that out in your quote? Are you just a hate fan? Grow up kid
On March 15 2014 04:37 darkscream wrote: TBH this isnt the first time naniwa invented some arbitrary reason why the tournament stage computers are unacceptable in some way, and he has been talking about having no passion and never practicing.
I don't blame soundproofing for him losing a game to polt with a completely amateur strategy and execution, and I really do hope we don't see any more Naniwa. He just does not seem happy to be part of the community or really care if he gets a chance to play on stage. Starcraft 2 isn't in a place where we can support obnoxious bad boys anymore.
Now that Naniwa is gone, the only people you'll be supporting are Koreans. You literally won't see another foreigner in a big tournament anymore.
Which is fine, because I'm a fan of cetain koreans for their personalities, I don't like the bland ones that much even if they're the champion and I don't much care for the showboats either. For a while I liked foreigners who were good even if they were jerks, but these days I just don't think being a walking tabloid story is the way to go for ROI.
Then there's the angle that Nani probably wasn't feeling like playing anyway and knew ahead of time, meaning he filled a very lucrative spot which could have been given to the open bracket or an invite if it were done ahead of time. If a korean forfeit in this way they'd at least be more apologetic. Suppose Naniwa is correct and the players can hear "everything", you better bet a korean player would try to play through the circumstances even if they gave him a loss.
We have no time or energy for divas anymore IMO, not in korea or europe, or anywhere else. At least, I know I don't.
On March 15 2014 05:39 WillS wrote: Do players at IEM Katowice receive WCS points? If so is it also a T1/T2 event? If so I wonder what blizzards reaction will be. We may actually get to find out how they precisely define their perception of the "sound dampening" that's required. See: https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/gallery/A3JHSFLANAZW1384955808934.jpg
As far as Naniwa himself is concerned it is a lot more difficult to form an opinion as to whether or not this was the right thing for him to choose. What I would say is that Naniwa himself is the best source to draw from.
Lastly lets not forget that Johan has shown us that he has the ability and drive to remind ourselves of and to check our assumptions and preconceived notions regarding the skill, opportunity and determination required to succeed at the highest level with this game. How highly you should regard that is subjective.
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
wtf... you never, never, NEVER were a fan of naniwa. every true fan knows, that naniwa does not give any stinking shit about "sportsmanship" or stuff like that.
You don't decide whether or not I am or was a fan of someone, nor do you get to decide who is a "true fan" and who isn't. I was willing to look past much of the stuff Naniwa pulled because his mindset and singular devotion to becoming a champion was inspiring, but there is a limit to what I can shrug off. Naniwa may not give much of a shit about sportsmanship (although he on several occasions claimed that he had learned to), but I do. I do not have to think like Naniwa to be a fan of him.
no, i can not decide if you were a fan of naniwa or not. in my opinion "beeing a true fan" just means more than "i liked his playstyle / skill / effort".
So what does it mean to be a fan, exactly?
beeing a fan means to like someone, because he is like he is. naniwa always was an asshole, he is acting like one for over 7 esport years. true fans know that, and like him anyway, because they understand his attitude.
ps: i am no fan of naniwa, i am a hater since 2007.
It's true. Zealously is a conditional fan, a Starcraft 2 fan, or a fair-weather fan.
Fan is short for fanatic, so Naniwa fans are just fanatically into him - as a person. Starcraft 2 or Protoss fans might have appreciated his play at some point, but they aren't Naniwa fans unless they're able to fully ignore his irrational, self-destructive behaviour. Being fanatical about something means being blind to reason when it concerns your idol. Being a Naniwa fan means defending that which cannot be defended; if you are happy to admit that you are a living contradiction, or were at some point, then bam! Naniwa fan.
Now, I'm a long-time Bomber fan, a Cella fan, and a Ryung fan ever since he popped up on Cella's stream one day at the SlayerS house - before his debut at GSTL. Nothing they can do will ever be wrong. They are the best, even if they're not. I will defend them, even if I end up looking like a complete idiot.
I can't say I hate Naniwa, but I am no fan, and never was. He played some great games, but who didn't who rose up to his level and stayed there for a while? Having played well doesn't make acting like a child forgivable, nor should I support his "free-spirited" demeanor. He took someone else's spot who would have given it their all.
I think hes a STARCRAFT FANATIC more than a Naniwa fan. Most people who are fans of people like Naniwa (Destiny comes to mind) and to a certain extent Idra loyalties lie with the player more than the scene. In the end its fucking stupid because you wouldnt know of the player without the scene and for him to shit all over the scene doesnt make anymore sense for him than it does for his so called fans willing to support him even while he shits on said scene.
At the end of the day this is about starcraft and its a little annoying that people who ardently follow these personalities dont understand what the fuck comes first. You question his loyalty towards Naniwa? Maybe you should question your loyalty towards the game that made that kid famous.
Pathetic crybabies in the audience need to eat today, so they will trash whoever doesn't deliver them food. It's hilarious to see people hoarding like sheep.
From one fan to another, are you actually defending Naniwa's actions today (or the last week)?
He has rights to do whatever he likes and I'm laughing at everybody who thinks differently. That's because he earned what he had. You guys earned nothing.
I don't know what happened today or in the last month with Naniwa, but I'm definitively not going to jump on the same wagon as all the people who are so fast to judge Naniwa and to take away his spot from IEM and his contributions to SC2 competitions. What the heck? If the audience is so important then why they don't choose the players for the tournaments themselves? Guys, listen to yourself. Do you hear the ridiculousness?
I was a fan until last week because of the contributions you talk about. He's played stunningly awesome games against a wide array of top opponents and made me scream and shout and jump with glee, but I can't support the kind of unsportsmanlike bullshit Naniwa pulled today. That makes me really sad, but it's how I - and a lot of others - feel. Naniwa is not above criticism because he has done well in the past.
wtf... you never, never, NEVER were a fan of naniwa. every true fan knows, that naniwa does not give any stinking shit about "sportsmanship" or stuff like that.
You don't decide whether or not I am or was a fan of someone, nor do you get to decide who is a "true fan" and who isn't. I was willing to look past much of the stuff Naniwa pulled because his mindset and singular devotion to becoming a champion was inspiring, but there is a limit to what I can shrug off. Naniwa may not give much of a shit about sportsmanship (although he on several occasions claimed that he had learned to), but I do. I do not have to think like Naniwa to be a fan of him.
no, i can not decide if you were a fan of naniwa or not. in my opinion "beeing a true fan" just means more than "i liked his playstyle / skill / effort".
So what does it mean to be a fan, exactly?
Duh you have to scream "Naniwa kun please notice meeee" in a tsundere voice in hope you grab his attention. Then hide your face if he sees you, update your status on facebook that he might like you.
oh god naniwa fans are worse than idra fans. like seriously this pms lunatic is saying that others are not "true" fans? he's seriously pulling the no true scotsman fallacy (which is used in religious arguments typically when christians say so and so is not a "true" christian)
lolololol wow. the fact is naniwa went out like a little bitch and a lot of people lost tons of respect for him. the probe rush was bad enough, but its obvious he didn't learn anything from it.
PS: audience members are what makes esports possible. no audience, no esports.
On March 15 2014 05:51 umade wrote: I'll say this.
I've been a fan of Naniwa for three straight years, ever since he won that MLG going undefeated and not losing a single map until the final. There's no doubt that he, along with Stephano, have been the best foreigners over that period. He's been the only foreigner at several events. He was the only one qualifying for Blizzcon, albeit barely. He was the only one qualifying for this IEM. Nani made it clear very early that he wasn't here for the fans or the audience. He was here because he wanted to be the best. He did all of this for himself, not for you or for me. Let me say it again. HE MADE IT CLEAR VERY EARLY IN HIS CAREER. Now that he's probably retiring, everyone jumps on him and insults him, calls him a kid for being selfish. Did you guys start watching SC2 in 2014?
This wasn't a nice way of going out, but it was the nani-way. Also, about the soundproofing. Impossible to know if it had anything to do with what Polt did in the game, but clearly Naniwa heard the crowd/casters and assumed Polt could too.
Goodbye Naniwa, good luck.
Started watching SC2 during the beta.
Watched Broodwar before that. Never watched War3, so Naniwa didn't exist to me until SC2.
Trust me, the crowd had NOTHING to do with Polt finding his proxy. Usually, it is the player whose proxy is discovered who realizes "Oh fuck, I've been scouted. Do I reveal that I know, and try another strategy, or do I try and make the strategy work as if I didn't know I was scouted?" That is how it's done. Crowd sounds don't command your SCVs to find enemy buildings. They respond to events: Building is discovered - crowd goes wild.
On March 15 2014 05:34 newbornducky wrote: I cannot understand why some people still take NaNiwa's side on this issue. What he did is completely disrespectful to Polt, IEM, the crowd, and himself. He may have produced some good games during his career, but I will not call him a good player as he does not even have the sportsmanship to qualify as a professional player. Good riddance.
He's been the best foreigner player regardless of whether you call him that or not. Some things are just facts.
Honestly who didn't see something like this happening? For any player to go to a tournament knowing they have not practiced and probably gonna retire is an asshat move.
On March 15 2014 04:37 darkscream wrote: TBH this isnt the first time naniwa invented some arbitrary reason why the tournament stage computers are unacceptable in some way, and he has been talking about having no passion and never practicing.
I don't blame soundproofing for him losing a game to polt with a completely amateur strategy and execution, and I really do hope we don't see any more Naniwa. He just does not seem happy to be part of the community or really care if he gets a chance to play on stage. Starcraft 2 isn't in a place where we can support obnoxious bad boys anymore.
Now that Naniwa is gone, the only people you'll be supporting are Koreans. You literally won't see another foreigner in a big tournament anymore.
Which is fine, because I'm a fan of cetain koreans for their personalities, I don't like the bland ones that much even if they're the champion and I don't much care for the showboats either. For a while I liked foreigners who were good even if they were jerks, but these days I just don't think being a walking tabloid story is the way to go for ROI.
Then there's the angle that Nani probably wasn't feeling like playing anyway and knew ahead of time, meaning he filled a very lucrative spot which could have been given to the open bracket or an invite if it were done ahead of time. If a korean forfeit in this way they'd at least be more apologetic. Suppose Naniwa is correct and the players can hear "everything", you better bet a korean player would try to play through the circumstances even if they gave him a loss.
We have no time or energy for divas anymore IMO, not in korea or europe, or anywhere else. At least, I know I don't.
And I could donate my money to a worthwhile charity instead of spending contributing to the nation's drug problem but at the end of the day it's my money and it's Naniwa's spot. No one here is obligated to respect his personality and he's not entitled to anyone's love with the way he's acted. On the other side of the coin, he really doesn't owe anyone else anything either. Everything he got in this game he earned: the good and the bad.
On March 15 2014 05:51 umade wrote: I'll say this.
I've been a fan of Naniwa for three straight years, ever since he won that MLG going undefeated and not losing a single map until the final. There's no doubt that he, along with Stephano, have been the best foreigners over that period. He's been the only foreigner at several events. He was the only one qualifying for Blizzcon, albeit barely. He was the only one qualifying for this IEM. Nani made it clear very early that he wasn't here for the fans or the audience. He was here because he wanted to be the best. He did all of this for himself, not for you or for me. Let me say it again. HE MADE IT CLEAR VERY EARLY IN HIS CAREER. Now that he's probably retiring, everyone jumps on him and insults him, calls him a kid for being selfish. Did you guys start watching SC2 in 2014?
This wasn't a nice way of going out, but it was the nani-way. Also, about the soundproofing. Impossible to know if it had anything to do with what Polt did in the game, but clearly Naniwa heard the crowd/casters and assumed Polt could too.
Goodbye Naniwa, good luck.
Started watching SC2 during the beta.
Watched Broodwar before that. Never watched War3, so Naniwa didn't exist to me until SC2.
Trust me, the crowd had NOTHING to do with Polt finding his proxy. Usually, it is the player whose proxy is discovered who realizes "Oh fuck, I've been scouted. Do I reveal that I know, and try another strategy, or do I try and make the strategy work as if I didn't know I was scouted?" That is how it's done. Crowd sounds don't command your SCVs to find enemy buildings. They respond to events: Building is discovered - crowd goes wild.
On March 15 2014 05:51 umade wrote: I'll say this.
I've been a fan of Naniwa for three straight years, ever since he won that MLG going undefeated and not losing a single map until the final. There's no doubt that he, along with Stephano, have been the best foreigners over that period. He's been the only foreigner at several events. He was the only one qualifying for Blizzcon, albeit barely. He was the only one qualifying for this IEM. Nani made it clear very early that he wasn't here for the fans or the audience. He was here because he wanted to be the best. He did all of this for himself, not for you or for me. Let me say it again. HE MADE IT CLEAR VERY EARLY IN HIS CAREER. Now that he's probably retiring, everyone jumps on him and insults him, calls him a kid for being selfish. Did you guys start watching SC2 in 2014?
This wasn't a nice way of going out, but it was the nani-way. Also, about the soundproofing. Impossible to know if it had anything to do with what Polt did in the game, but clearly Naniwa heard the crowd/casters and assumed Polt could too.
Goodbye Naniwa, good luck.
Started watching SC2 during the beta.
Watched Broodwar before that. Never watched War3, so Naniwa didn't exist to me until SC2.
Trust me, the crowd had NOTHING to do with Polt finding his proxy. Usually, it is the player whose proxy is discovered who realizes "Oh fuck, I've been scouted. Do I reveal that I know, and try another strategy, or do I try and make the strategy work as if I didn't know I was scouted?" That is how it's done. Crowd sounds don't command your SCVs to find enemy buildings. They respond to events: Building is discovered - crowd goes wild.
If you watch the way that Polt scouted, he ordered his SCV to move and scout before ArPollo pointed it out and then noticed the proxy gate.
On March 15 2014 05:51 umade wrote: I'll say this.
I've been a fan of Naniwa for three straight years, ever since he won that MLG going undefeated and not losing a single map until the final. There's no doubt that he, along with Stephano, have been the best foreigners over that period. He's been the only foreigner at several events. He was the only one qualifying for Blizzcon, albeit barely. He was the only one qualifying for this IEM. Nani made it clear very early that he wasn't here for the fans or the audience. He was here because he wanted to be the best. He did all of this for himself, not for you or for me. Let me say it again. HE MADE IT CLEAR VERY EARLY IN HIS CAREER. Now that he's probably retiring, everyone jumps on him and insults him, calls him a kid for being selfish. Did you guys start watching SC2 in 2014?
This wasn't a nice way of going out, but it was the nani-way. Also, about the soundproofing. Impossible to know if it had anything to do with what Polt did in the game, but clearly Naniwa heard the crowd/casters and assumed Polt could too.
Goodbye Naniwa, good luck.
Started watching SC2 during the beta.
Watched Broodwar before that. Never watched War3, so Naniwa didn't exist to me until SC2.
Trust me, the crowd had NOTHING to do with Polt finding his proxy. Usually, it is the player whose proxy is discovered who realizes "Oh fuck, I've been scouted. Do I reveal that I know, and try another strategy, or do I try and make the strategy work as if I didn't know I was scouted?" That is how it's done. Crowd sounds don't command your SCVs to find enemy buildings. They respond to events: Building is discovered - crowd goes wild.
The crowd goes wild on things that only one player can see. For example the placing of the gates. When someone sixpools there is usually a huge roar. Same for proxy of anykind... You may have watched, but didn't pay attention...
"sportsmanship" is a term that couldn't translate into naniwa's language, just as "i actually give a fuck" couldn't translate to idra's language. i'm just glad he's leaving.
On March 15 2014 05:51 umade wrote: I'll say this.
I've been a fan of Naniwa for three straight years, ever since he won that MLG going undefeated and not losing a single map until the final. There's no doubt that he, along with Stephano, have been the best foreigners over that period. He's been the only foreigner at several events. He was the only one qualifying for Blizzcon, albeit barely. He was the only one qualifying for this IEM. Nani made it clear very early that he wasn't here for the fans or the audience. He was here because he wanted to be the best. He did all of this for himself, not for you or for me. Let me say it again. HE MADE IT CLEAR VERY EARLY IN HIS CAREER. Now that he's probably retiring, everyone jumps on him and insults him, calls him a kid for being selfish. Did you guys start watching SC2 in 2014?
This wasn't a nice way of going out, but it was the nani-way. Also, about the soundproofing. Impossible to know if it had anything to do with what Polt did in the game, but clearly Naniwa heard the crowd/casters and assumed Polt could too.
Goodbye Naniwa, good luck.
Started watching SC2 during the beta.
Watched Broodwar before that. Never watched War3, so Naniwa didn't exist to me until SC2.
Trust me, the crowd had NOTHING to do with Polt finding his proxy. Usually, it is the player whose proxy is discovered who realizes "Oh fuck, I've been scouted. Do I reveal that I know, and try another strategy, or do I try and make the strategy work as if I didn't know I was scouted?" That is how it's done. Crowd sounds don't command your SCVs to find enemy buildings. They respond to events: Building is discovered - crowd goes wild.
Are you mad at Naniwa for doing what he did?
No I can't get mad at Naniwa. Mad means upset, or angry? I'm not surprised. It's him being him. What's unfortunate is that Polt got a free win, just for scouting. fans got under half a series. IEM got blamed by Naniwa. Naniwa got blamed by IEM. It's just an unfortunate thing, aside from the Naniwa (possible) retirement. I feel like him quitting has been a long time coming. I feel like his spot was wasted - even though he qualified for it. Mad? Angry? Upset? No, not at all. I'm pretty neutral when it comes to players I don't cheer for. If they entertain me, I can still be happy watching their game - the enjoyment is actually easier, because I'm not emotionally invested. In the case of Polt vs Naniwa, I don't care who wins.
On March 15 2014 04:37 darkscream wrote: TBH this isnt the first time naniwa invented some arbitrary reason why the tournament stage computers are unacceptable in some way, and he has been talking about having no passion and never practicing.
I don't blame soundproofing for him losing a game to polt with a completely amateur strategy and execution, and I really do hope we don't see any more Naniwa. He just does not seem happy to be part of the community or really care if he gets a chance to play on stage. Starcraft 2 isn't in a place where we can support obnoxious bad boys anymore.
Now that Naniwa is gone, the only people you'll be supporting are Koreans. You literally won't see another foreigner in a big tournament anymore.
Did Scarlett die or something?!
Also, the people we cheered for in BW were all Korean, and that never mattered to anyone. Yes, foreigners did compete, and Guillaume won the first OSL, but foreigners simply could not compete at that level (or chose not to) for the vast majority of BW's professional lifetime. (BW isn't dead to me, as long as we have people like Sonic, and Sayle!)
Seriously, the last time a non-korean played in Proleague was like, 2004. That did not matter.
1. Scarlett is amazing but let me know when she makes a global finals. 2. The BW fanbase is not the same as the SC2 fanbase. Can we agree on that? SC2 is much more decentralized than BW and foreigner success contributes greatly to the game's popularity.
For what it's worth, Scarlett's results in 2013 were as good or better than Naniwa's. She didn't accumulate the WCS points because she had serious wrist problems, leading to lengthy breaks, including skipping the WCS AM Season 2 finals. It's probable she would have finished in the top 16.
Sad to see Naniwa go out like this. He could have been remembered as a great player and one of few could beat the top koreans. Now he will be remembered as the angry BM guy.
On March 15 2014 06:39 Batch wrote: Sad to see Naniwa go out like this. He could have been remembered as a great player and one of few could beat the top koreans. Now he will be remembered as the angry BM guy.
He will be remembered as both, no matter what happened today.
On March 15 2014 06:10 boxerfred wrote: "sportsmanship" is a term that couldn't translate into naniwa's language, just as "i actually give a fuck" couldn't translate to idra's language. i'm just glad he's leaving.
It's nice to see the people who don't even like the game leaving IMO. This was like the hero vs. villain match, Polt is always smiling and has good manner even when losing. Naniwa has always been rude an ungrateful. This is a fitting end for his SC2 career. It's pure karma pay back that his rage quit gave the nice guy a free win.
If he put his building a little more out of the way polt wouldn't have seen it... he just barely saw the edge.
Never was a fan of Naniwa, but he was one of the better foreigners. Unfortunately for everyone will only remember him for pulling these punk moves. Pretty much wastes his whole time as a programer if all he is remembered by is being a punk.
I'm just so devastated that at least for a little while until he inevitably decides to once again grace tournaments with his presence, we're not going to have to sit and wait 30 minutes in the middle of a bo3 because Naniwa's computer was the only one that was lagging, or there was something wrong with the map that made him unhappy after the game began, or the booth was uncomfortable, had sound-proofing issues or some other unbearable defect that only and only he noticed, or because JYP touched him, or because someone looked at him funny in the restroom 10 minutes ago.
I don't know if the SC2 scene can survive his absence.
On March 15 2014 05:13 Grobyc wrote: Is the a VOD of the winners interview with Polt that followed this? Interested to hear if he can vouch for the sound thing or if it was just a good scout.
pretty sure Polt would have scouted that way regardless, the crowd wasn't the reason he found the gate. still, that doesn't mean that naniwa's complaint wasn't legit. did polt win because crowd noise? absolutely not. was naniwa right to whine about the booths? who knows, any of the players that were in those booths today could tell us.
Yeah I absolutely agree it's not possible to say he wouldn't have scouted it otherwise unless he honestly wasn't going to and did get a hint from the crowd. You can't take anything away from Polt in this scenario.
It definitely wasn't respectful and sportsmanlike for Naniwa to instantly assume Polt only scouted it because of something he thinks happened though. He has no way of knowing if that was the case at all and even if he did somehow know for sure, it's pretty bad manner to type a cheeky comment like that. It wasn't necessary at all.
Pretty much a microcosm of Naniwa's whole career. Pretty hilarious incident and a reminder that he is not really someone who should be missed at this point.
If the players could indeed hear the crowd, I think he has a point. Might not been a good way to deal with it, but still. I wouldn't like to play in that situation.
He must have known about the soundproofing issue before he started the 2-gate rush (probably before the game even started). This means that he chose to use a strat that would be unlikely to work for a known reason, but he did it anyway. My guess is that he went through with it because he wanted a way to justify his loss with an outside factor (to himself or fans), or he just felt like complaining about something.
If he didn't practice at all in the last month, there was no way he was winning the series no matter what, this way was quick and he could at least pretend that it was someone elses fault.
So it has been 22 pages and nobody came to check the soundproofing issue ?
It really is the corner of the problem there.
As for Naniwa, while he clearly was a good(great?) player, that kind of behaviour just never pays off for me. It's pointless to be this good and this jerky.
On March 15 2014 07:22 anatase wrote: So it has been 22 pages and nobody came to check the soundproofing issue ?
It really is the corner of the problem there.
As for Naniwa, while he clearly was a good(great?) player, that kind of behaviour just never pays off for me. It's pointless to be this good and this jerky.
None of the other pros complaining and laughing at him is probably a good sign that there's no issue.
On March 15 2014 05:08 Sapphire.lux wrote: Difficult to tell if he is a genuine arse or just an unhappy kid. I hope he will continue playing though as he is one of the best foreigner out there.
Why are the two mutually exclusive? He's been a genuine arse the entire time he's been on the scene, even if he is unhappy now that doesn't really excuse past or current behavior.
I meant as a light or even more serious depression that has probably gone on for a long time. He's had this awkward, "me against the world" and negative view on everything for a long time. I think he needs help, not a crucifixion.
lol. I hope people use the sound of the crowd booing in spoof-videos from now on. Like when someone wins the tourney, they can overlay the audio from that video on top (if it's a protoss ;D)
On March 15 2014 05:51 umade wrote: I'll say this.
I've been a fan of Naniwa for three straight years, ever since he won that MLG going undefeated and not losing a single map until the final. There's no doubt that he, along with Stephano, have been the best foreigners over that period. He's been the only foreigner at several events. He was the only one qualifying for Blizzcon, albeit barely. He was the only one qualifying for this IEM. Nani made it clear very early that he wasn't here for the fans or the audience. He was here because he wanted to be the best. He did all of this for himself, not for you or for me. Let me say it again. HE MADE IT CLEAR VERY EARLY IN HIS CAREER. Now that he's probably retiring, everyone jumps on him and insults him, calls him a kid for being selfish. Did you guys start watching SC2 in 2014?
This wasn't a nice way of going out, but it was the nani-way. Also, about the soundproofing. Impossible to know if it had anything to do with what Polt did in the game, but clearly Naniwa heard the crowd/casters and assumed Polt could too.
Goodbye Naniwa, good luck.
Started watching SC2 during the beta.
Watched Broodwar before that. Never watched War3, so Naniwa didn't exist to me until SC2.
Trust me, the crowd had NOTHING to do with Polt finding his proxy. Usually, it is the player whose proxy is discovered who realizes "Oh fuck, I've been scouted. Do I reveal that I know, and try another strategy, or do I try and make the strategy work as if I didn't know I was scouted?" That is how it's done. Crowd sounds don't command your SCVs to find enemy buildings. They respond to events: Building is discovered - crowd goes wild.
Very true. good pros scout regardless of what the crowd shouts. Good point
On March 15 2014 07:22 anatase wrote: So it has been 22 pages and nobody came to check the soundproofing issue ?
It really is the corner of the problem there.
As for Naniwa, while he clearly was a good(great?) player, that kind of behaviour just never pays off for me. It's pointless to be this good and this jerky.
Because its a non issue. Naniwa used that soundproof thing as a cheap excuse to not play...
Watch the vod, you can see Polt scout before there were any cheering or anything,Even with perfect soundproof he would have scoutet it.
Then Kennigit did a twitter post, where he asked other players and the LoL dudes, they all said they had no issues.
On March 15 2014 07:22 anatase wrote: So it has been 22 pages and nobody came to check the soundproofing issue ?
It really is the corner of the problem there.
As for Naniwa, while he clearly was a good(great?) player, that kind of behaviour just never pays off for me. It's pointless to be this good and this jerky.
Because its a non issue. Naniwa used that soundproof thing as a cheap excuse to not play...
Watch the vod, you can see Polt scout before there were any cheering or anything,Even with perfect soundproof he would have scoutet it.
Then Kennigit did a twitter post, where he asked other players and the LoL dudes, they all said they had no issues.
geez after watching the vods nani looks like a mess. also from his body language look like he just didnt want to be there at all straight up looks like shit so defeated
While I don't condone Nani's way of going about this, I really think people need to chill a little. None of you know him personally or what he might be going through. Just let bygones be bygones. I'm sure he already feels like he's being punished one way or another.
I can't do anything but shrug. Never was to interested in the drama sorounding Naniwa or Sc2 in general. He seems a bit troubled and I can't imagin acting like this helped him. Should have forfeited his spot to someone who wanted to play. Seems like a stunt, unless he was the only player at the tournament ahving issues with it.
Yeah holy pot-kettle syndrome. What Naniwa did was scummy- and not the first bad thing he's done- but Stephano isn't exactly the paragon of virtue LOL.
On March 15 2014 07:42 ludic123 wrote: While I don't condone Nani's way of going about this, I really think people need to chill a little. None of you know him personally or what he might be going through. Just let bygones be bygones. I'm sure he already feels like he's being punished one way or another.
except he already has a reputation for BM and poor professionalism. The soundproofing excuse is a weak one because other players would've also said something about it if there was a problem. If he never wanted to be there in the first place, he should've forfeited his spot before the tournament started. What he did was just plain selfish.
Yeah holy pot-kettle syndrome. What Naniwa did was scummy- and not the first bad thing he's done- but Stephano isn't exactly the paragon of virtue LOL.
Yeah holy pot-kettle syndrome. What Naniwa did was scummy- and not the first bad thing he's done- but Stephano isn't exactly the paragon of virtue LOL.
The crowd reacting to the proxy wouldn't tell Polt exactly where the proxy is. Usually the crowd reacts as the scouting worker FINDS the proxy. Plus I'm pretty sure that Polt knew Naniwa hadn't played any games recently and was just being safe. Either that, or that's his normal scouting pattern.
Naniwa just picked the best excuse available, and went out like a total disgrace. I'm sorry. His defenders can suck it. So many pro gamers would kill for that spot.
jesus this crying swede... just leave the scene like a pro stop crying... crying that something is ima i will leave.. cry for no sound proof damn this bithcez... just fucking leave like a great player as you were stop bitching and make exuces out of everything just like idra did cuz he is no longer good enough to compete at pro lvl... damn i m disapointed.
So I actually didn't even see the beginning of the game. Polt's scouting SCV is shift queue'd straight from his depot to his natural, probably to build a CC. There is no fucking way you can expect me to believe he reacted to the crowd.
On March 15 2014 07:58 Flonomenalz wrote: So I actually didn't even see the beginning of the game. Polt's scouting SCV is shift queue'd straight from his depot to his natural, probably to build a CC. There is no fucking way you can expect me to believe he reacted to the crowd.
Polt scouts that way almost every game anyways, if you go look at some of his other recent tournament games, he scouts there the vast majority of the time.
On March 15 2014 07:58 Flonomenalz wrote: So I actually didn't even see the beginning of the game. Polt's scouting SCV is shift queue'd straight from his depot to his natural, probably to build a CC. There is no fucking way you can expect me to believe he reacted to the crowd.
Polt scouts that way almost every game anyways, if you go look at some of his other recent tournament games, he scouts there the vast majority of the time.
yep thats a fact, so please every swede out there stop cry that naniwa is retard who wanted to leave the scene with a scandal..... jeeez that just so teenage retared reaction leave like a man
Yeah... hell, if you look at when Polt built his Depo, there's a chance that he saw the probe then! Naniwa did walk awfully close to the ramp. Then saw the probe never went in.
Naniwa - Started his career by playing pretty good, whining like a bitch, trying to earn redemption. Ended his career 4 years later the exact same way, minus the playing pretty good in the last moments. I guess if that's what you want in a pro player, that's nice... but some people assume that people who are 24 will not act 14.
I can't tell you not to miss him. But this exit certainly can make me wonder why on earth you would. If you want that in a pro, sign me up for a contract and I can cry and proxy every tournament you send me to.
On March 15 2014 01:27 bosstoss2013 wrote: NaNiwa is worse than Idra.
Even if I think that they are 2 assholes thinking that they are more clever that the rest of us, I think Naniwa was pretty good for cheesing. Shit > Naniwa > Idra. Obviously.
On March 15 2014 01:27 bosstoss2013 wrote: NaNiwa is worse than Idra.
Even if I think that they are 2 assholes thinking that they are more clever that the rest of us, I think Naniwa was pretty good for cheesing. Shit > Naniwa > Idra. Obviously.
NaNiwa maybe has done his last shitstorm but at least he didn't offend his fans.
the blessed soul he is, did an epicly long, pro bono, early morning (at least for him) cast of of the IEM qualifiers (it was either NY, Sao Paolo or Cologne, can't remember which) and there was some really long downtime and he did an impromptu AMA. It was here where he
said Naniwa is the foreigner hope the scene needs, not the one it deserves. If you are going to wail on an athlete being selfish, then read up on some boxer and footballer bios, it's this attitude that enables them to perform, with the nice guys being the rare exceptions. Being an unsportsmanlike PoS is a whole different matter. I already noticed something was off about him when he walked out, went straight to his booth, not even looking at Polt even though he must have known there were still map vetos to do and the IEM had to repeatedly gesture him to come back out. He showed no sign of determination, even the placement of that gateway was just begging to be scouted. I believe he is in a difficult place mentally because he has to let go of 3-4 years of his life without having attained the success he aimed for when setting out not to mention the majority of the community treating him like filth.
On March 15 2014 01:27 bosstoss2013 wrote: NaNiwa is worse than Idra.
Even if I think that they are 2 assholes thinking that they are more clever that the rest of us, I think Naniwa was pretty good for cheesing. Shit > Naniwa > Idra. Obviously.
NaNiwa maybe has done his last shitstorm but at least he didn't offend his fans.
Considering his fans love him even if (and worse BECAUSE) he insults anybody for no reason ("a true personality" right ?), yeah...i guess he didn't offend his fans....and then?
On March 15 2014 07:58 Flonomenalz wrote: So I actually didn't even see the beginning of the game. Polt's scouting SCV is shift queue'd straight from his depot to his natural, probably to build a CC. There is no fucking way you can expect me to believe he reacted to the crowd.
Polt scouts that way almost every game anyways, if you go look at some of his other recent tournament games, he scouts there the vast majority of the time.
Since it is Naniwa, I wouldn't even be sure he wanted it to end like this. Like his proxy is so ridiculously close and the pylon may even be visible just from the edge of the main base. And the comment sounded pretty prepared, given that Polt did not scout it fast after "the crowd revealed it", but he had no better comment up his sleeve and just went with it.
Since he had no chance to win anyways without practice and since he just wanted to go as a jerk. I mean, 12hours before that he posted about playing LoL instead of training. I think he really wanted to step down with a huge outcry. Just a theory, but yeah, Naniwa has always wanted to create drama and at least we know now that he took the tiniest possible disturbtion to throw everything. Even if he is right with the soundproofing issue, everyone else would have just gone with a different strategy to begin with.
On March 15 2014 01:27 bosstoss2013 wrote: NaNiwa is worse than Idra.
Even if I think that they are 2 assholes thinking that they are more clever that the rest of us, I think Naniwa was pretty good for cheesing. Shit > Naniwa > Idra. Obviously.
NaNiwa maybe has done his last shitstorm but at least he didn't offend his fans.
Well, he did today. Maybe not directly, but I would assume his fans want to see him play? He went there without any interest to play, then decided to insult Pol by not acknowleding his scouting and after he just gave up.
On March 15 2014 08:07 d_runk wrote: Nathanias, + Show Spoiler +
the blessed soul he is, did an epicly long, pro bono, early morning (at least for him) cast of of the IEM qualifiers (it was either NY, Sao Paolo or Cologne, can't remember which) and there was some really long downtime and he did an impromptu AMA. It was here where he
said Naniwa is the foreigner hope the scene needs, not the one it deserves. If you are going to wail on an athlete being selfish, then read up on some boxer and footballer bios, it's this attitude that enables them to perform, with the nice guys being the rare exceptions. Being an unsportsmanlike PoS is a whole different matter. I already noticed something was off about him when he walked out, went straight to his booth, not even looking at Polt even though he must have known there were still map vetos to do and the IEM had to repeatedly gesture him to come back out. He showed no sign of determination, even the placement of that gateway was just begging to be scouted. I believe he is in a difficult place mentally because he has to let go of 3-4 years of his life without having attained the success he aimed for when setting out not to mention the majority of the community treating him like filth.
You're acting like this happened randomly and out of the blue, not as a result of his own actions.
Didnt Polt retire Idra too? We need a Polt taking out the trash meme. No, seriously though, I hope the guy comes back for his sake. Could you imagine someone like him trying to make it in regular society? Besides, hes so weird its hilarious. Do you really expect someone as strange as him to act normal? Theres no goddamn way.
Naniwa is so narcistic and selfish. His character brought great attention and very unique drama as well as almost unified hatred from the pro player community (as far as i can tell). I am kind of glad he is out but what a great ride this has been.
Sooo sad that one of the greatest sc2 players are so close to leave this game. I feel that this is one of the heavier blows to sc2. I really, really hope that he takes some time off and then finds inspiration again.
Naniwa is one of the most important players in the starcraft scene. He is always reaching for the top.
If you do not come back to this scene. I would like to thank you. You are one of the few people how made the scene interesting. Thank you NANIWA!
On March 15 2014 08:14 Parcelleus wrote: lol @ haters
Naniwa EARNT the spot @ IEM , he can do what he wants. It is HIS right , NOT yours. lol
Like it's our right to say "go away idiot ! Hope you'll grow up ! And even if you don't, it won't bother esport !"
Oh THAT part of the community, hehe yeah what ever floats your boat.
Sorry, English is not my first language. Should I read sarcasms ? Or irony?
i believe he's just trolling, ignore him.
@On topic
still a little shock that a pro that's about to reitre to end his career like that. You would think that a pro would at least give it his best shot and end his run on a high note. Or if he knew he was going lose he would give the spot to someone else or tell IEM he thinks he cannot play at his best and give his seed to someone else who can at least give good games.
But if naniwaii wants to end his run like this i guess that just says what kind of person he is. but we all know he'll come back but the chances of someone picking him up just got harder than it already was.
btw does anyone know what hel'll do next, but i don't think naniwai is in school i believe he dropped out? or never went? i'm not sure hopefully someone can clearify it.
On March 15 2014 08:07 d_runk wrote: Nathanias, + Show Spoiler +
the blessed soul he is, did an epicly long, pro bono, early morning (at least for him) cast of of the IEM qualifiers (it was either NY, Sao Paolo or Cologne, can't remember which) and there was some really long downtime and he did an impromptu AMA. It was here where he
said Naniwa is the foreigner hope the scene needs, not the one it deserves. If you are going to wail on an athlete being selfish, then read up on some boxer and footballer bios, it's this attitude that enables them to perform, with the nice guys being the rare exceptions. Being an unsportsmanlike PoS is a whole different matter. I already noticed something was off about him when he walked out, went straight to his booth, not even looking at Polt even though he must have known there were still map vetos to do and the IEM had to repeatedly gesture him to come back out. He showed no sign of determination, even the placement of that gateway was just begging to be scouted. I believe he is in a difficult place mentally because he has to let go of 3-4 years of his life without having attained the success he aimed for when setting out not to mention the majority of the community treating him like filth.
You're acting like this happened randomly and out of the blue, not as a result of his own actions.
He got most of the shit from people who feel too fucking entitled. Just take a look at that.
On March 15 2014 05:04 LimeNade wrote: Soundproofing issues or not he's a quitter and super egocentric. He could have easily forfeited his invitation to IEM prior to the event and allowed someone else to fill in his spot. I don't buy the shit about "well he earned his right to be in the tournament so he can do whatever he wants". Give me a f**king break. It should be an honor to play in an event on a scale as large as this and if you are going into the tournament with piss poor shit attitude then he should have never attended to begin with.
I don't think it was worth the boos honestly. Edit: I do think however that it would have been preferable for Naniwa and the audience to just forfeit before coming to the event, and not mid-series. He hadn't practiced for like a month, it was no use trying to find excuses in poor soundproof or whatever, when you've already given up on the game a month ago.
Didnt Polt retire Idra too? We need a Polt taking out the trash meme.
There ya go:
Disclaimer: I don't think either of these players were thrash. They were at the top of the foreigner food chain in their respective times and should be respected as contenders for that.
On March 15 2014 08:14 Parcelleus wrote: lol @ haters
Naniwa EARNT the spot @ IEM , he can do what he wants. It is HIS right , NOT yours. lol
Like it's our right to say "go away idiot ! Hope you'll grow up ! And even if you don't, it won't bother esport !"
Oh THAT part of the community, hehe yeah what ever floats your boat.
Sorry, English is not my first language. Should I read sarcasms ? Or irony?
i believe he's just trolling, ignore him.
@On topic
still a little shock that a pro that's about to reitre to end his career like that. You would think that a pro would at least give it his best shot and end his run on a high note. Or if he knew he was going lose he would give the spot to someone else or tell IEM he thinks he cannot play at his best and give his seed to someone else who can at least give good games.
But if naniwaii wants to end his run like this i guess that just says what kind of person he is. but we all know he'll come back but the chances of someone picking him up just got harder than it already was.
btw does anyone know what hel'll do next, but i don't think naniwai is in school i believe he dropped out? or never went? i'm not sure hopefully someone can clearify it.
If he tries to use the strange thing on top of his body, just in the middle of his shulders, he could make something great.
The problem is since july 2010, except wining some games, he didn't show any social skill except his exceptional capacity to pull hate.
In a more serious note, normaly I wish good luck to all players who retire, but not this time. NaNiwa atitude was SO childish and retarded that can't even be called unprofessional. Is just a shame, pure and simple.
A person with this kind of behavior won't go far in life, whatever he chooses to do. So, my good luck wishes would be not just false, but also a waste of words.
On March 15 2014 08:36 aringadingding wrote: Sooo sad that one of the greatest sc2 players are so close to leave this game. I feel that this is one of the heavier blows to sc2. Naniwa is one of the most important players in the starcraft scene.
What are you talking about? He is one of the most retarded Players in sc2!!! not more not less! For nearly 4 years he is just a stupid egoistic child that cries every time when he´s losing. wäää wäää wäää the pc is crap...wääää wäää wäää i can hear the crowd wäää wäää wäää
I had a feeling something controversial with Naniwa was about to happen. His twitters, recent news etc it just felt like its all a perfect build up to something like this. If it really wasnt that well sound proofed though, then he had a legitimate reason to be pissed, still, not playing out the series is just being a little biznitch
That little laugh and shrug from Polt at the start of the interview after he was congratulated and his expression after it was over said it all about how he felt about that match.
On March 15 2014 08:36 aringadingding wrote: Sooo sad that one of the greatest sc2 players are so close to leave this game. I feel that this is one of the heavier blows to sc2. Naniwa is one of the most important players in the starcraft scene.
What are you talking about? He is one of the most retarded Players in sc2!!! not more not less! For nearly 4 years he is just a stupid egoistic child that cries every time when he´s losing. wäää wäää wäää the pc is crap...wääää wäää wäää i can hear the crowd wäää wäää wäää
Need more moderation in this thread. You ignorant people do realize Nani does have a legit mental condition and disorder correct? Which is why he seems like a jerk, he's not, he's very direct and hardly ever lies. Reading team liquid these days sometimes disgusts me more than people on reddit. Getting a little annoyed seeing Polt constantly trash on people just for some crowed laughs. IdrA/Nani were the best players in their time for the EU/US scene and deserve respect.
Is it possible that Naniwa was forced to play the tournament due to contract with Alliance? It would explain him looking like he didn't want to be there, and would also explain his comment "at least I'll get to meet some fun people". It's not like him to travel to tournaments he doesn't want to attend (paid for or not), and I honestly don't believe he wanted to play this one.
On March 15 2014 02:21 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Naniwa doesn't exist to entertain you.
Actually, he kind of does. Johan Lucchesi certainly doesn't, but Naniwa is another matter. Because Naniwa is (used to be?) a professional player, and he can (could?) only exist as such because he entertains an audience. Otherwise, he'd just be a guy being really good at an RTS.
Kinda sad to see him go out on that note, but I guess it is not too surprising, in a way.
On March 15 2014 08:36 aringadingding wrote: Sooo sad that one of the greatest sc2 players are so close to leave this game. I feel that this is one of the heavier blows to sc2. Naniwa is one of the most important players in the starcraft scene.
What are you talking about? He is one of the most retarded Players in sc2!!! not more not less! For nearly 4 years he is just a stupid egoistic child that cries every time when he´s losing. wäää wäää wäää the pc is crap...wääää wäää wäää i can hear the crowd wäää wäää wäää
Need more moderation in this thread. You ignorant people do realize Nani does have a legit mental condition and disorder correct? Which is why he seems like a jerk, he's not, he's very direct and hardly ever lies. Reading team liquid these days sometimes disgusts me more than people on reddit. Getting a little annoyed seeing Polt constantly trash on people just for some crowed laughs. IdrA/Nani were the best players in their time for the EU/US scene and deserve respect.
What's your source for naniwa's "legit mental condition and disorder." Also naniwa acts like a ten year old and you turn it around on Polt?! An extremely well mannered, well liked, and hard working player? What a joke.
On March 15 2014 08:36 aringadingding wrote: Sooo sad that one of the greatest sc2 players are so close to leave this game. I feel that this is one of the heavier blows to sc2. Naniwa is one of the most important players in the starcraft scene.
What are you talking about? He is one of the most retarded Players in sc2!!! not more not less! For nearly 4 years he is just a stupid egoistic child that cries every time when he´s losing. wäää wäää wäää the pc is crap...wääää wäää wäää i can hear the crowd wäää wäää wäää
Need more moderation in this thread. You ignorant people do realize Nani does have a legit mental condition and disorder correct? Which is why he seems like a jerk, he's not, he's very direct and hardly ever lies. Reading team liquid these days sometimes disgusts me more than people on reddit. Getting a little annoyed seeing Polt constantly trash on people just for some crowed laughs. IdrA/Nani were the best players in their time for the EU/US scene and deserve respect.
Did you even watch Polt's interview? He was very gracious and respectful about the whole situation.
Meh, Naniwa is just a drama queen. I think you are giving him too much atention. He was not prepared for the tournament, he doesn't like playing outside of Korea and has no motivation at all... As soon as he realized that Polt will just crush him, he decided to leave in "style". Just ignore him and focus on the important people... You know, the actual competitors.
given naniwas personality and his history of bm and going on tilt, something like this was in the air after he announced his departure from sc2...
he really should have given his spot to someone else. like.. what was the point of even going to the event? he hadnt practiced for weeks and so had no hopes whatsoever to win any money, he would just leave on a bad note and he would rob fans off of a series. and he would steal the chance of being there from someone else who might actually WANT to be there... so yeah, i really dont get it.
You cant blame him for taking the spot, he earned it. Maybe he thought he would get some motivation by playing on a big stage. Forfeiting and whining leaves a sour taste though.. I can understand him not wanting to play when he knows he is gonna play like shit but then you just suck it up and get it over with, you don't come up with some bullshit excuse and leave. Hopefully for him he learned something from this.. Maybe it is because I am(was?) a Naniwa fan but the booing seemed like kicking a man when he is down... If he ever comes back I will still hope he does good, if not I wish him the best luck in whatever he is gonna do.
On March 15 2014 09:50 Faust852 wrote: That Boo though, must have been harsh to be in naniwa's position at that moment.
sry but what do you think he expected? that's the approriate and logical response to something like that.
I know, I think it was deserved, but just imagine how hard it could be to endure it.
id imagine he dont give a fuck. like when u confront a stranger on what theyre doing wrong, instead of apologizing or acknowledging, the usual reply is "i dont give a fuck/not your business"
On March 15 2014 08:36 aringadingding wrote: Sooo sad that one of the greatest sc2 players are so close to leave this game. I feel that this is one of the heavier blows to sc2. Naniwa is one of the most important players in the starcraft scene.
What are you talking about? He is one of the most retarded Players in sc2!!! not more not less! For nearly 4 years he is just a stupid egoistic child that cries every time when he´s losing. wäää wäää wäää the pc is crap...wääää wäää wäää i can hear the crowd wäää wäää wäää
Need more moderation in this thread. You ignorant people do realize Nani does have a legit mental condition and disorder correct? Which is why he seems like a jerk, he's not, he's very direct and hardly ever lies. Reading team liquid these days sometimes disgusts me more than people on reddit. Getting a little annoyed seeing Polt constantly trash on people just for some crowed laughs. IdrA/Nani were the best players in their time for the EU/US scene and deserve respect.
Oh for fucks sake. Polt was the epitome of class in his post match interview having to deal with that stupid situation, not to mention the fact that Naniwa basically just called him a cheater. Plus I don't know of a single example of Polt that backs up your assertion. Polt is a classy guy and a great player.
On March 15 2014 08:36 aringadingding wrote: Sooo sad that one of the greatest sc2 players are so close to leave this game. I feel that this is one of the heavier blows to sc2. Naniwa is one of the most important players in the starcraft scene.
What are you talking about? He is one of the most retarded Players in sc2!!! not more not less! For nearly 4 years he is just a stupid egoistic child that cries every time when he´s losing. wäää wäää wäää the pc is crap...wääää wäää wäää i can hear the crowd wäää wäää wäää
Need more moderation in this thread. You ignorant people do realize Nani does have a legit mental condition and disorder correct? Which is why he seems like a jerk, he's not, he's very direct and hardly ever lies. Reading team liquid these days sometimes disgusts me more than people on reddit. Getting a little annoyed seeing Polt constantly trash on people just for some crowed laughs. IdrA/Nani were the best players in their time for the EU/US scene and deserve respect.
Oh for fucks sake. Polt was the epitome of class in his post match interview having to deal with that stupid situation, not to mention the fact that Naniwa basically just called him a cheater. Plus I don't know of a single example of Polt that backs up your assertion. Polt is a classy guy and a great player.
I remember Flash vs Naniwa MLG game 7 when naniwa missed the proxies and then the crowd cheered and his probe legit went back a few steps and found the proxy (it made no sense at all...)
Also, in the Code S game where Naniwa faced MVP and MVP was going 2 rax, his build was going to be a greedy expand, but he somehow sensed out that 2 rax. EDIT: P.S in that LR thread, Tod (I think) was confused and went on the forums if he heard the crowd or something. No one cared because he lost so it was irrelevant.
Admittedly, the second one I'm less sure about, but Naniwa has definitely had benefits to sound-issues, he could have easily brought it up at those times instead, but bringing it up when you lose when you've clearly used it yourself is just plain wrong.
"im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything." NaNiwa on his twitter just now ...
this is imho too much, even for weird guy like NaNiwa should know there are some boundaries
On March 15 2014 09:50 Faust852 wrote: That Boo though, must have been harsh to be in naniwa's position at that moment.
sry but what do you think he expected? that's the approriate and logical response to something like that.
I know, I think it was deserved, but just imagine how hard it could be to endure it.
So proxy gate twice and exit with some dignity. Would take like 15 mins with the break included.
No he should never have went and forfeited. He hadn't played in over a month (he said so) so he should have done the good thing and not go at all and have a replacement for him. What he did was stupid. If you have no intention of playing matches why the fuck would you go? If you know you aren't going to do good or even make it past the first round and aren't even practicing then don't go at all.
On March 15 2014 10:46 Hydro033 wrote: idra, stephano and now naniwa - all within a year. I honestly believe that these three things are what took so much air out of sails.
On March 15 2014 10:50 amiGo_O wrote: "im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything." NaNiwa on his twitter just now ...
this is imho too much, even for weird guy like NaNiwa should know there are some boundaries
What are we going to do without his approval though? I don't think I can live like this.
On March 15 2014 09:50 Faust852 wrote: That Boo though, must have been harsh to be in naniwa's position at that moment.
sry but what do you think he expected? that's the approriate and logical response to something like that.
I know, I think it was deserved, but just imagine how hard it could be to endure it.
So proxy gate twice and exit with some dignity. Would take like 15 mins with the break included.
No he should never have went and forfeited. He hadn't played in over a month (he said so) so he should have done the good thing and not go at all and have a replacement for him. What he did was stupid.
Well yes the optimal solution would have been to have someone else entirely there, but since Nani went he might as well play out two more halfhearted games as a show of respect and appreciation to the organizers.
Edit: hold on a second here, are you quoting the right person?
On March 15 2014 09:49 Gullis wrote: You cant blame him for taking the spot, he earned it. Maybe he thought he would get some motivatioeiting and whining leaves a sour taste though.. I can understand him not wanting to play when he knows he is gonna play like shit but then you just suck it up and get it over with, you don't come up with some bullshit excuse and leave. Hopefully for him he learned something from this.. Maybe it is because I am(was?) a Naniwa fan but the booing seemed like kicking a man when he is down... If he ever comes back I will still hope he does good, if not I wish him the best luck in whatever he is gonna do.
"But the booing seemed like a man when he is down".
If saying the truth (ie Ninawa is the pledge of esport) is booing someone like a man whe he's down, then yes, i'm guilty as charge. And I feel no shame if it's about Ninawa.
On March 15 2014 09:50 Faust852 wrote: That Boo though, must have been harsh to be in naniwa's position at that moment.
sry but what do you think he expected? that's the approriate and logical response to something like that.
I know, I think it was deserved, but just imagine how hard it could be to endure it.
id imagine he dont give a fuck. like when u confront a stranger on what theyre doing wrong, instead of apologizing or acknowledging, the usual reply is "i dont give a fuck/not your business"
No, people who pull amateur shit like this are already on tilt and definitely give a fuck. He most certainly cares, otherwise he wouldn't have quit in the middle of a match.
I also don't think it matters how "hard" it is to hear boos. He made his bed, he has to lie in it.
He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
On March 15 2014 10:50 amiGo_O wrote: "im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything." NaNiwa on his twitter just now ...
this is imho too much, even for weird guy like NaNiwa should know there are some boundaries
He's 100% correct though - casters/people act like Nani has something to prove to them and has some obligation. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. People give him shit yet ironically enough stop watching tournaments once he's been eliminated because they're already bored.
The scene (call it dead if you want, w/e) is slowly losing the players that help make it interesting and bringing people back. As cool as it is to see Koreans play well, they're (for the most part) pretty boring people who don't bring in stream numbers. Hope to see Nani back in the future but I don't blame him if he leaves, who would honestly still want to play given the current situation of the game and how odd the community is?
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
Oh come on. He didn't leave the game and forfeit the series because he thinks swarmhosts are imbalanced. And what is this obsession with the idea that Naniwa is what makes the scene interesting. I can't stand it. I just really can not fathom how people continue to defend him after this. And lol at him calling the community disgusting. I just don't know what he expects when he pulls shit like this. Apparently a standing ovation.
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
Not a single other player has complained. Which pretty much sounds like any other tournament Naniwa attends
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
ReDeYe and Kennigit checked the soundproofing, and none of the other players had any issues (someone tweeted that the players were even laughing about the complaint because it was absurd).
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
Its total bullshit. Its either the monitor, the computer or the booth, but Nani'wa always bitches. And no booth is sound proof.
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
ReDeYe and Kennigit checked the soundproofing, and none of the other players had any issues (someone tweeted that the players were even laughing about the complaint because it was absurd).
It sounds like a fishy situation as per anything related to Nani - he claims Polt could hear the casters as well, but I'm assuming neither Polt nor anyone else came forward and wanted to complain about it.
Maybe Nani has it wrong? Who knows. But if they could hear casters and no one wanted to come forward and just act like everything is OK then we have a problem here boys and girls.
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
Its total bullshit. Its either the monitor, the computer or the booth, but Nani'wa always bitches. And no booth is sound proof.
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
Its total bullshit. Its either the monitor, the computer or the booth, but Nani'wa always bitches. And no booth is sound proof.
All of you guys are saying you don't give a shit about him and that he's bad for the scene. Thread is at 27 pages and clearly he's interesting enough for you to post about him and share your opinion. Throughout his career he created a ton of things for us to talk about and discuss.
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
ReDeYe and Kennigit checked the soundproofing, and none of the other players had any issues (someone tweeted that the players were even laughing about the complaint because it was absurd).
It sounds like a fishy situation as per anything related to Nani - he claims Polt could hear the casters as well, but I'm assuming neither Polt nor anyone else came forward and wanted to complain about it.
Maybe Nani has it wrong? Who knows. But if they could hear casters and no one wanted to come forward and just act like everything is OK then we have a problem here boys and girls.
You born last week? Ninawa is insulting and hating anybody since 4 years. The problem is not why he takes a break now, it's why he's not gone so far.
We don't have a problem, we HAD a problem named Naniwa. Hopefully the problem will go back to studies and real life.
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Enduring locusts is so strong it allows you to rally them into other games.
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
ReDeYe and Kennigit checked the soundproofing, and none of the other players had any issues (someone tweeted that the players were even laughing about the complaint because it was absurd).
It sounds like a fishy situation as per anything related to Nani - he claims Polt could hear the casters as well, but I'm assuming neither Polt nor anyone else came forward and wanted to complain about it.
Maybe Nani has it wrong? Who knows. But if they could hear casters and no one wanted to come forward and just act like everything is OK then we have a problem here boys and girls.
Polt's SCV was supposedly already queued on its way to the proxy before the crowd saw it along with the observer. The cheers were irrelevant.
On March 15 2014 10:50 amiGo_O wrote: "im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything." NaNiwa on his twitter just now ...
this is imho too much, even for weird guy like NaNiwa should know there are some boundaries
He's 100% correct though - casters/people act like Nani has something to prove to them and has some obligation. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. People give him shit yet ironically enough stop watching tournaments once he's been eliminated because they're already bored.
The scene (call it dead if you want, w/e) is slowly losing the players that help make it interesting and bringing people back. As cool as it is to see Koreans play well, they're (for the most part) pretty boring people who don't bring in stream numbers. Hope to see Nani back in the future but I don't blame him if he leaves, who would honestly still want to play given the current situation of the game and how odd the community is?
This is a pretty offensive post i think. What makes the Koreans boring people? I think the language barrier makes it harder for them to get their personality across but that doesn't make them boring people. Personally i think there are plenty of interesting Koreans. You don't have to rage quit tournaments and act like a douche in general to be interesting.
That's your personal opinion of the game. But if anything the viewership has stabilised and is even on the rise a little bit. The game right now is as good as it ever has been. Not sure what is supposed to be wrong with this community and you certainly haven't elaborated that point.
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
ReDeYe and Kennigit checked the soundproofing, and none of the other players had any issues (someone tweeted that the players were even laughing about the complaint because it was absurd).
It sounds like a fishy situation as per anything related to Nani - he claims Polt could hear the casters as well, but I'm assuming neither Polt nor anyone else came forward and wanted to complain about it.
Maybe Nani has it wrong? Who knows. But if they could hear casters and no one wanted to come forward and just act like everything is OK then we have a problem here boys and girls.
Yeah except we know that Nani has it wrong. Not one other player has complained and everyone asked at the tournament has said it's not an issue. Every time sound proofing actually is an issue the players complain straight away. Both your posts come off as blindly trying to defend Naniwa when there is no need.
Naniwa doesn't owe the community anything and i have no problem with him leaving but his actions at this tournament deserve criticism. Frankly he has all but disappeared from the scene anyway and it has hardly missed him. Good luck to him in his future endeavors.
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
Legally he had the right to do it . Moraly he behaved like an asshole and should take the blame for it and not invent shitty excuses.
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
ReDeYe and Kennigit checked the soundproofing, and none of the other players had any issues (someone tweeted that the players were even laughing about the complaint because it was absurd).
It sounds like a fishy situation as per anything related to Nani - he claims Polt could hear the casters as well, but I'm assuming neither Polt nor anyone else came forward and wanted to complain about it.
Maybe Nani has it wrong? Who knows. But if they could hear casters and no one wanted to come forward and just act like everything is OK then we have a problem here boys and girls.
Polt's SCV was supposedly already queued on its way to the proxy before the crowd saw it along with the observer. The cheers were irrelevant.
I just want to point out that you can clearly see in the vod that the SCV is queued to move near the spot before the crowd started to cheer. There is no way that soundproofing had any effect on this match.
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
"Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right" Are you for real now?
On March 15 2014 10:50 amiGo_O wrote: "im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything." NaNiwa on his twitter just now ...
this is imho too much, even for weird guy like NaNiwa should know there are some boundaries
He's 100% correct though - casters/people act like Nani has something to prove to them and has some obligation. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. People give him shit yet ironically enough stop watching tournaments once he's been eliminated because they're already bored.
The scene (call it dead if you want, w/e) is slowly losing the players that help make it interesting and bringing people back. As cool as it is to see Koreans play well, they're (for the most part) pretty boring people who don't bring in stream numbers. Hope to see Nani back in the future but I don't blame him if he leaves, who would honestly still want to play given the current situation of the game and how odd the community is?
This is a pretty offensive post i think. What makes the Koreans boring people? I think the language barrier makes it harder for them to get their personality across but that doesn't make them boring people. Personally i think there are plenty of interesting Koreans. You don't have to rage quit tournaments and act like a douche in general to be interesting.
That's your personal opinion of the game. But if anything the viewership has stabilised and is even on the rise a little bit. The game right now is as good as it ever has been. Not sure what is supposed to be wrong with this community and you certainly haven't elaborated that point.
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
ReDeYe and Kennigit checked the soundproofing, and none of the other players had any issues (someone tweeted that the players were even laughing about the complaint because it was absurd).
It sounds like a fishy situation as per anything related to Nani - he claims Polt could hear the casters as well, but I'm assuming neither Polt nor anyone else came forward and wanted to complain about it.
Maybe Nani has it wrong? Who knows. But if they could hear casters and no one wanted to come forward and just act like everything is OK then we have a problem here boys and girls.
Yeah except we know that Nani has it wrong. Not one other player has complained and everyone asked at the tournament has said it's not an issue. Every time sound proofing actually is an issue the players complain straight away. Both your posts come off as blindly trying to defend Naniwa when there is no need.
Naniwa doesn't owe the community anything and i have no problem with him leaving but his actions at this tournament deserve criticism. Frankly he has all but disappeared from the scene anyway and it has hardly missed him. Good luck to him in his future endeavors.
The game is as good as it's ever been? 40k viewers for one of the biggest tourneys of the year? Multiple progamers complaining about the same imbalanced units? The community asking the dev team to try to re-work major components of the game? You avin a giggle m8yroo? I'm sure they aren't boring people but it's how the majority come across to people - you don't see any of them having the same kind of story lines/drama/whatever as you do with NA players. Sure some of the attention that the NA players bring is not in a positive light, but it's still better than nothing and if you don't undertsand that point then I guess I'm barking at the wrong tree here.
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
"Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right" Are you for real now?
how does saying he has the right to proxy gateway and then quit after losing one game equal saying he didn't qualify fair and square for the tournament???
On March 15 2014 10:50 amiGo_O wrote: "im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything." NaNiwa on his twitter just now ...
this is imho too much, even for weird guy like NaNiwa should know there are some boundaries
He's 100% correct though - casters/people act like Nani has something to prove to them and has some obligation. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. People give him shit yet ironically enough stop watching tournaments once he's been eliminated because they're already bored.
The scene (call it dead if you want, w/e) is slowly losing the players that help make it interesting and bringing people back. As cool as it is to see Koreans play well, they're (for the most part) pretty boring people who don't bring in stream numbers. Hope to see Nani back in the future but I don't blame him if he leaves, who would honestly still want to play given the current situation of the game and how odd the community is?
This is a pretty offensive post i think. What makes the Koreans boring people? I think the language barrier makes it harder for them to get their personality across but that doesn't make them boring people. Personally i think there are plenty of interesting Koreans. You don't have to rage quit tournaments and act like a douche in general to be interesting.
That's your personal opinion of the game. But if anything the viewership has stabilised and is even on the rise a little bit. The game right now is as good as it ever has been. Not sure what is supposed to be wrong with this community and you certainly haven't elaborated that point.
On March 15 2014 11:11 beesinyoface wrote:
On March 15 2014 11:07 lichter wrote:
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
ReDeYe and Kennigit checked the soundproofing, and none of the other players had any issues (someone tweeted that the players were even laughing about the complaint because it was absurd).
It sounds like a fishy situation as per anything related to Nani - he claims Polt could hear the casters as well, but I'm assuming neither Polt nor anyone else came forward and wanted to complain about it.
Maybe Nani has it wrong? Who knows. But if they could hear casters and no one wanted to come forward and just act like everything is OK then we have a problem here boys and girls.
Yeah except we know that Nani has it wrong. Not one other player has complained and everyone asked at the tournament has said it's not an issue. Every time sound proofing actually is an issue the players complain straight away. Both your posts come off as blindly trying to defend Naniwa when there is no need.
Naniwa doesn't owe the community anything and i have no problem with him leaving but his actions at this tournament deserve criticism. Frankly he has all but disappeared from the scene anyway and it has hardly missed him. Good luck to him in his future endeavors.
The game is as good as it's ever been? 40k viewers for one of the biggest tourneys of the year? You avin a giggle m8yroo? I'm sure they aren't boring people but it's how the majority come across to people - you don't see any of them having the same kind of story lines/drama/whatever as you do with NA players. Sure some of the attention that the NA players bring is not in a positive light, but it's still better than nothing and if you don't undertsand that point then I guess I'm barking at the wrong tree here.
40k viewers while it aired at a crappy time for US and it was still a weekday? And thats higher than what IEM usually gets on a Friday? Yeah i think its ok. It will hit over 100k this weekend.
first of all i want to say that i mostly never liked Naniwas behaviour in the past. And yes in my oppinion: he is a d**k often But:
He doenst feel well and decided to take a brake. He is gone now and u should just be happy or whatever. But stomping him here doenst make u better than the booing sc2 fans at stage or doenst make u better than Naniwas behaviour at some point. Just think about it....
@ Stephanos twitter post: *headshaking* all i want to reply is: grab ur own nose..... Stephano: “Sam, I abused a child yesterday”......gz......
@ Soundproofed Booth: Naninwa could hear the croud cheer....i think this is obvious...this cheering 100% did NOT help polt to win the game, but it states that the booths are not 100% sound proven....Just think about it.....
On March 15 2014 10:59 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: He's just upset at the state of the game right now (swarm hosts for example), that is the reason. not his fault, and he's not the only one who thinks the game is in a bad place right now
Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
"Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right" Are you for real now?
how does saying he has the right to proxy gateway and then quit after losing one game equal saying he didn't qualify fair and square for the tournament???
Because if you read posts in the quotes thats whats being argued over.
On March 15 2014 10:50 amiGo_O wrote: "im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything." NaNiwa on his twitter just now ...
this is imho too much, even for weird guy like NaNiwa should know there are some boundaries
He's 100% correct though - casters/people act like Nani has something to prove to them and has some obligation. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. People give him shit yet ironically enough stop watching tournaments once he's been eliminated because they're already bored.
The scene (call it dead if you want, w/e) is slowly losing the players that help make it interesting and bringing people back. As cool as it is to see Koreans play well, they're (for the most part) pretty boring people who don't bring in stream numbers. Hope to see Nani back in the future but I don't blame him if he leaves, who would honestly still want to play given the current situation of the game and how odd the community is?
This is a pretty offensive post i think. What makes the Koreans boring people? I think the language barrier makes it harder for them to get their personality across but that doesn't make them boring people. Personally i think there are plenty of interesting Koreans. You don't have to rage quit tournaments and act like a douche in general to be interesting.
That's your personal opinion of the game. But if anything the viewership has stabilised and is even on the rise a little bit. The game right now is as good as it ever has been. Not sure what is supposed to be wrong with this community and you certainly haven't elaborated that point.
On March 15 2014 11:11 beesinyoface wrote:
On March 15 2014 11:07 lichter wrote:
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
ReDeYe and Kennigit checked the soundproofing, and none of the other players had any issues (someone tweeted that the players were even laughing about the complaint because it was absurd).
It sounds like a fishy situation as per anything related to Nani - he claims Polt could hear the casters as well, but I'm assuming neither Polt nor anyone else came forward and wanted to complain about it.
Maybe Nani has it wrong? Who knows. But if they could hear casters and no one wanted to come forward and just act like everything is OK then we have a problem here boys and girls.
Yeah except we know that Nani has it wrong. Not one other player has complained and everyone asked at the tournament has said it's not an issue. Every time sound proofing actually is an issue the players complain straight away. Both your posts come off as blindly trying to defend Naniwa when there is no need.
Naniwa doesn't owe the community anything and i have no problem with him leaving but his actions at this tournament deserve criticism. Frankly he has all but disappeared from the scene anyway and it has hardly missed him. Good luck to him in his future endeavors.
The game is as good as it's ever been? 40k viewers for one of the biggest tourneys of the year? You avin a giggle m8yroo? I'm sure they aren't boring people but it's how the majority come across to people - you don't see any of them having the same kind of story lines/drama/whatever as you do with NA players. Sure some of the attention that the NA players bring is not in a positive light, but it's still better than nothing and if you don't undertsand that point then I guess I'm barking at the wrong tree here.
If what you want out of an esport is players acting like babies and quitting when it gets to hard for them mid-match, then that's your prerogative. Some of us want to watch matches between players who actually want to play the game.
On March 15 2014 11:16 ACrow wrote: [quote] Yeah, those Swarm Hosts really ruined his scouted proxy cheese vs T.
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
"Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right" Are you for real now?
how does saying he has the right to proxy gateway and then quit after losing one game equal saying he didn't qualify fair and square for the tournament???
Because if you read posts in the quotes thats whats being argued over.
no its really not. talks about balance and naniwa's complaints on it. Then it was posted that if he doesn't have the passion to play, then don't play. Then you bring up that he qualified fairly and has the right to do whatever.
No one questioned the fairness of his qualification. You are the only one that brought his qualification up...
Last time I checked he played Starcraft 2. Sometimes the glass just overflows.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
"Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right" Are you for real now?
how does saying he has the right to proxy gateway and then quit after losing one game equal saying he didn't qualify fair and square for the tournament???
Because if you read posts in the quotes thats whats being argued over.
no its really not. talks about balance and naniwa's complaints on it. Then it was posted that if he doesn't have the passion to play, then don't play. Then you bring up that he qualified fairly and has the right to do whatever.
No one questioned the fairness of his qualification. You are the only one that brought his qualification up...
Look at HerrHorst's posts. "Fine, don't play at IEM"
On March 15 2014 10:50 amiGo_O wrote: "im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything." NaNiwa on his twitter just now ...
this is imho too much, even for weird guy like NaNiwa should know there are some boundaries
He's 100% correct though - casters/people act like Nani has something to prove to them and has some obligation. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. People give him shit yet ironically enough stop watching tournaments once he's been eliminated because they're already bored.
The scene (call it dead if you want, w/e) is slowly losing the players that help make it interesting and bringing people back. As cool as it is to see Koreans play well, they're (for the most part) pretty boring people who don't bring in stream numbers. Hope to see Nani back in the future but I don't blame him if he leaves, who would honestly still want to play given the current situation of the game and how odd the community is?
This is a pretty offensive post i think. What makes the Koreans boring people? I think the language barrier makes it harder for them to get their personality across but that doesn't make them boring people. Personally i think there are plenty of interesting Koreans. You don't have to rage quit tournaments and act like a douche in general to be interesting.
That's your personal opinion of the game. But if anything the viewership has stabilised and is even on the rise a little bit. The game right now is as good as it ever has been. Not sure what is supposed to be wrong with this community and you certainly haven't elaborated that point.
On March 15 2014 11:11 beesinyoface wrote:
On March 15 2014 11:07 lichter wrote:
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
ReDeYe and Kennigit checked the soundproofing, and none of the other players had any issues (someone tweeted that the players were even laughing about the complaint because it was absurd).
It sounds like a fishy situation as per anything related to Nani - he claims Polt could hear the casters as well, but I'm assuming neither Polt nor anyone else came forward and wanted to complain about it.
Maybe Nani has it wrong? Who knows. But if they could hear casters and no one wanted to come forward and just act like everything is OK then we have a problem here boys and girls.
Yeah except we know that Nani has it wrong. Not one other player has complained and everyone asked at the tournament has said it's not an issue. Every time sound proofing actually is an issue the players complain straight away. Both your posts come off as blindly trying to defend Naniwa when there is no need.
Naniwa doesn't owe the community anything and i have no problem with him leaving but his actions at this tournament deserve criticism. Frankly he has all but disappeared from the scene anyway and it has hardly missed him. Good luck to him in his future endeavors.
The game is as good as it's ever been? 40k viewers for one of the biggest tourneys of the year? You avin a giggle m8yroo? I'm sure they aren't boring people but it's how the majority come across to people - you don't see any of them having the same kind of story lines/drama/whatever as you do with NA players. Sure some of the attention that the NA players bring is not in a positive light, but it's still better than nothing and if you don't undertsand that point then I guess I'm barking at the wrong tree here.
40k viewers while it aired at a crappy time for US and it was still a weekday? And thats higher than what IEM usually gets on a Friday? Yeah i think its ok. It will hit over 100k this weekend.
Well it certainly will now...the more controversial something is the more likely people are going to tune in and even if it already is over and done with that event has created controversy.
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
"Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right" Are you for real now?
how does saying he has the right to proxy gateway and then quit after losing one game equal saying he didn't qualify fair and square for the tournament???
Because if you read posts in the quotes thats whats being argued over.
no its really not. talks about balance and naniwa's complaints on it. Then it was posted that if he doesn't have the passion to play, then don't play. Then you bring up that he qualified fairly and has the right to do whatever.
No one questioned the fairness of his qualification. You are the only one that brought his qualification up...
Look at HerrHorst's posts. "Fine, don't play at IEM"
That has nothing to do with the fairness of his qualification! Holy shit. He said don't play IEM if you are just gonna show up and cheese and quit after losing the first game. Thats what that means. Not, you didn't qualify fairly! My god.
On March 15 2014 11:24 Tobblish wrote: [quote] Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
"Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right" Are you for real now?
how does saying he has the right to proxy gateway and then quit after losing one game equal saying he didn't qualify fair and square for the tournament???
Because if you read posts in the quotes thats whats being argued over.
no its really not. talks about balance and naniwa's complaints on it. Then it was posted that if he doesn't have the passion to play, then don't play. Then you bring up that he qualified fairly and has the right to do whatever.
No one questioned the fairness of his qualification. You are the only one that brought his qualification up...
Look at HerrHorst's posts. "Fine, don't play at IEM"
That has nothing to do with the fairness of his qualification! Holy shit. He said don't play IEM if you are just gonna show up and cheese and quit after losing the first game. Thats what that means. Not, you didn't qualify fairly! My god.
You realize that you are the source of this whole argument right? By answering my comment that with it is right but it doesn't make it right you started the whole thing that it necessarily didn't mean that he qualified or earned his spot there rightfully so?
And Starcraft 2 forced him to behave like an asshole? Nerf pls, riot! No passion for the game? Fine, don't play at IEM
Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
"Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right" Are you for real now?
how does saying he has the right to proxy gateway and then quit after losing one game equal saying he didn't qualify fair and square for the tournament???
Because if you read posts in the quotes thats whats being argued over.
no its really not. talks about balance and naniwa's complaints on it. Then it was posted that if he doesn't have the passion to play, then don't play. Then you bring up that he qualified fairly and has the right to do whatever.
No one questioned the fairness of his qualification. You are the only one that brought his qualification up...
Look at HerrHorst's posts. "Fine, don't play at IEM"
What? I never questioned his right to play the tournament. I just stated that it would be fair/moraly right to forfeit his spot if he never intented to take it serious.
On March 15 2014 11:24 Tobblish wrote: [quote] Blizzard* He was invited because of his performance in a older tournament, totally his right to take the flight and do w/e. Is it a shit move? Yup one could say that. But he still have total right to do what he did.
And it entertained you so why are you mad?
because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
"Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right" Are you for real now?
how does saying he has the right to proxy gateway and then quit after losing one game equal saying he didn't qualify fair and square for the tournament???
Because if you read posts in the quotes thats whats being argued over.
no its really not. talks about balance and naniwa's complaints on it. Then it was posted that if he doesn't have the passion to play, then don't play. Then you bring up that he qualified fairly and has the right to do whatever.
No one questioned the fairness of his qualification. You are the only one that brought his qualification up...
Look at HerrHorst's posts. "Fine, don't play at IEM"
What? I never questioned his right to play the tournament. I just stated that it would be fair/moraly right to forfeit his spot if he never intented to take it serious.
No now you do. Theres a big difference with whining at another persons whine and not fully type out what you are meaning.
edit: and im done with this little squabble theres F1 Q that needs my attention.
On March 15 2014 11:25 jmbthirteen wrote: [quote] because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
"Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right" Are you for real now?
how does saying he has the right to proxy gateway and then quit after losing one game equal saying he didn't qualify fair and square for the tournament???
Because if you read posts in the quotes thats whats being argued over.
no its really not. talks about balance and naniwa's complaints on it. Then it was posted that if he doesn't have the passion to play, then don't play. Then you bring up that he qualified fairly and has the right to do whatever.
No one questioned the fairness of his qualification. You are the only one that brought his qualification up...
Look at HerrHorst's posts. "Fine, don't play at IEM"
That has nothing to do with the fairness of his qualification! Holy shit. He said don't play IEM if you are just gonna show up and cheese and quit after losing the first game. Thats what that means. Not, you didn't qualify fairly! My god.
You realize that you are the source of this whole argument right? By answering my comment that with it is right but it doesn't make it right you started the whole thing that it necessarily didn't mean that he qualified or earned his spot there rightfully so?
except you are interpreting things that aren't there... I said sure, Naniwa is allowed to do that, but he's an ass for doing it and it wasted the spot. Not once was his qualification even brought up, let alone questioned until you mentioned it... Thats just not part of what I or anyone else said.
On March 15 2014 11:25 jmbthirteen wrote: [quote] because it didn't entertain him. and it made him mad?
Naniwa totally wasted that spot. Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right.
Morally it is wrong but with his 2nd place he qualified fair and square.
and no one is arguing that so, hooray for bringing up a pointless point!
"Sure he had the "right to do so" but that doesn't make it right" Are you for real now?
how does saying he has the right to proxy gateway and then quit after losing one game equal saying he didn't qualify fair and square for the tournament???
Because if you read posts in the quotes thats whats being argued over.
no its really not. talks about balance and naniwa's complaints on it. Then it was posted that if he doesn't have the passion to play, then don't play. Then you bring up that he qualified fairly and has the right to do whatever.
No one questioned the fairness of his qualification. You are the only one that brought his qualification up...
Look at HerrHorst's posts. "Fine, don't play at IEM"
What? I never questioned his right to play the tournament. I just stated that it would be fair/moraly right to forfeit his spot if he never intented to take it serious.
No now you do. Theres a big difference with whining at another persons whine and not fully type out what you are meaning.
edit: and im done with this little squabble theres F1 Q that needs my attention.
Nice try. Stop interpreting something into my posts I never intended. But i guess you are here just for the sake of trolling. /ignored
On March 15 2014 10:50 amiGo_O wrote: "im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything." NaNiwa on his twitter just now ...
this is imho too much, even for weird guy like NaNiwa should know there are some boundaries
He's 100% correct though - casters/people act like Nani has something to prove to them and has some obligation. He's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. People give him shit yet ironically enough stop watching tournaments once he's been eliminated because they're already bored.
The scene (call it dead if you want, w/e) is slowly losing the players that help make it interesting and bringing people back. As cool as it is to see Koreans play well, they're (for the most part) pretty boring people who don't bring in stream numbers. Hope to see Nani back in the future but I don't blame him if he leaves, who would honestly still want to play given the current situation of the game and how odd the community is?
This is a pretty offensive post i think. What makes the Koreans boring people? I think the language barrier makes it harder for them to get their personality across but that doesn't make them boring people. Personally i think there are plenty of interesting Koreans. You don't have to rage quit tournaments and act like a douche in general to be interesting.
That's your personal opinion of the game. But if anything the viewership has stabilised and is even on the rise a little bit. The game right now is as good as it ever has been. Not sure what is supposed to be wrong with this community and you certainly haven't elaborated that point.
On March 15 2014 11:11 beesinyoface wrote:
On March 15 2014 11:07 lichter wrote:
On March 15 2014 11:06 Helios.Star wrote: I havent liked naniwa at times but really thats bullshit. How do events still occur with no soundproofing? How dont tournament organizers understand just how important this is?
ReDeYe and Kennigit checked the soundproofing, and none of the other players had any issues (someone tweeted that the players were even laughing about the complaint because it was absurd).
It sounds like a fishy situation as per anything related to Nani - he claims Polt could hear the casters as well, but I'm assuming neither Polt nor anyone else came forward and wanted to complain about it.
Maybe Nani has it wrong? Who knows. But if they could hear casters and no one wanted to come forward and just act like everything is OK then we have a problem here boys and girls.
Yeah except we know that Nani has it wrong. Not one other player has complained and everyone asked at the tournament has said it's not an issue. Every time sound proofing actually is an issue the players complain straight away. Both your posts come off as blindly trying to defend Naniwa when there is no need.
Naniwa doesn't owe the community anything and i have no problem with him leaving but his actions at this tournament deserve criticism. Frankly he has all but disappeared from the scene anyway and it has hardly missed him. Good luck to him in his future endeavors.
The game is as good as it's ever been? 40k viewers for one of the biggest tourneys of the year? Multiple progamers complaining about the same imbalanced units? The community asking the dev team to try to re-work major components of the game? You avin a giggle m8yroo? I'm sure they aren't boring people but it's how the majority come across to people - you don't see any of them having the same kind of story lines/drama/whatever as you do with NA players. Sure some of the attention that the NA players bring is not in a positive light, but it's still better than nothing and if you don't undertsand that point then I guess I'm barking at the wrong tree here.
First of all when i said the game is as good as it's ever been i was talking about the quality of the matches. As for the viewers what does IEM normally get for its early rounds? Overall viewership has stabilised and is starting to rise a little bit, i clearly wasn't referring to just this tournament.
People have been asking the dev team to rework major parts of the game since before the game even released. How is that supposed to show specifically that the game is worse now than ever?
As to your last point there is a difference between calling them boring people and saying they don't bring in the viewers. Foreigners bring more viewers because everyone wants to see someone besides Koreans do well, not necessarily because they're more interesting people.
Ok Naniwa might be a whining bitch true, he has been this way at times and this is not new. But to everyone complaining about him having a spot, thinking he cheesed his way into it etc come on! Naniwa has consistently been one of the best foreigners in SC2 and have TONS of legit wins against top koreans, the only one that's had more success against Koreans is Stephano, who can ever dispute this?, claiming otherwise is stupid and only goes to shos your own lack of objectivity. Should he have offered his spot to someone else? Probably yes, but it was his right to try.
On March 15 2014 11:54 beesinyoface wrote: Wait, are we seriously defending 40k total viewers for the years largest tourney at 3PM EST now?
Again how does that compare with how IEM normal rates on day one? You're also trying to make out like the viewership of that one day is the only thing that matters. There are more tournaments than just IEM. Since when is this the years largest tourney as well, could you be any more obvious with your intentions.
In a very personal opinion, Im very sad that naniwa is no longer playing SC2 is the only one apart from idra that make this game really entertaining to watch, I guess he needs time to relax and be away from all this pussy fuckers called "community" with a few exception of course, I wish he didn't care about what other people think... and also if he is not enjoying the game anymore there's no reason for him to play, I hardly ever play SC2 anymore so I understand that, but booing him in the event today was terrible G_G... In the end, I really like him as a player with his personality include. I do no justify his behaviour because I can DEAL WITH IT NO PROBLEM, unlike many of you whining pussies, so all in all goodbye naniwa and a big fuck you to all you stupid people. -with few eceptions as well-
I'm normally a Naniwa hater, but if after all previous incidents they still can't use soundproof booths then he does have the right to be upset. Was there any confirmation that players could hear the crowd?
On March 15 2014 12:25 endy wrote: I'm normally a Naniwa hater, but if after all previous incidents they still can't use soundproof booths then he does have the right to be upset. Was there any confirmation that players could hear the crowd?
On March 15 2014 12:25 endy wrote: I'm normally a Naniwa hater, but if after all previous incidents they still can't use soundproof booths then he does have the right to be upset. Was there any confirmation that players could hear the crowd?
The scouting SCV was queued to the proxy so soundproofing was irrelevant to the situation.
Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
despite his personality he was one of the best foreigners to ever grace the scene. getting to gsl ro8 twice is nothing to scoff at, it requires skill, determination and fortitude.
i wish him well for the future and hope he get his issues sort out. the way he just bow out like that its just sad and depressing.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
I hope that Naniwa sponsor's drop him like a bad habit. If your retiring and not going to play anymore, then no need for sponsorship. He has had a piss poor attitude for awhile now. Good riddance, King of the North my ass, more like King of the douchebags.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
I agree. Good riddance about sums up my feelings on his exit from the game.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
Now that Naniwa is gone I expected viewership to increase dramatically. /s
How The FUCKK did this asshole qualified for the round of 16 ?, and not a more appropriate player such as Jaedong, Bomber or MMA are occupying that place. I´ts Ridiculous
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
Now that Naniwa is gone I expected viewership to increase dramatically. /s
What a silly thing to say. I don't expect viewership to increase. I expect it to stay roughly the same. Believe it or not most people watch the game because they like the game not because they are obsessed with one player.
On March 15 2014 13:09 WTF SC2 wrote: How The FUCKK did this asshole qualified for the round of 16 ?, and not a more appropriate player such as Jaedong, Bomber or MMA are occupying that place. I´ts Ridiculous
He qualified by getting second place at IEM New York. He qualified legitimately. That is not the issue here.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
Now that Naniwa is gone I expected viewership to increase dramatically. /s
What a silly thing to say. I don't expect viewership to increase. I expect it to stay roughly the same. Believe it or not most people watch the game because they like the game not because they are obsessed with one player.
Yeah people keep saying that but SC2 keeps losing viewers. You think the dismissal of the one remaining competitive foreigner at global events isn't going to have an effect?
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
Now that Naniwa is gone I expected viewership to increase dramatically. /s
What a silly thing to say. I don't expect viewership to increase. I expect it to stay roughly the same. Believe it or not most people watch the game because they like the game not because they are obsessed with one player.
Yeah people keep saying that but SC2 keeps losing viewers. You think the dismissal of the one remaining competitive foreigner at global events isn't going to have an effect?
Nope, because everyone expected him to lose to Polt anyways.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
Now that Naniwa is gone I expected viewership to increase dramatically. /s
What a silly thing to say. I don't expect viewership to increase. I expect it to stay roughly the same. Believe it or not most people watch the game because they like the game not because they are obsessed with one player.
Yeah people keep saying that but SC2 keeps losing viewers. You think the dismissal of the one remaining competitive foreigner at global events isn't going to have an effect?
Tournaments not including Naniwa are doing fine. And Scarlett has reached an international tournament final more recently than Naniwa.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
Now that Naniwa is gone I expected viewership to increase dramatically. /s
What a silly thing to say. I don't expect viewership to increase. I expect it to stay roughly the same. Believe it or not most people watch the game because they like the game not because they are obsessed with one player.
Yeah people keep saying that but SC2 keeps losing viewers. You think the dismissal of the one remaining competitive foreigner at global events isn't going to have an effect?
Nope, because everyone expected him to lose to Polt anyways.
That doesn't logically follow at all. Unless you think State playing in Proleague doesn't boost viewership because he's probably going to lose those games too.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
Now that Naniwa is gone I expected viewership to increase dramatically. /s
What a silly thing to say. I don't expect viewership to increase. I expect it to stay roughly the same. Believe it or not most people watch the game because they like the game not because they are obsessed with one player.
Yeah people keep saying that but SC2 keeps losing viewers. You think the dismissal of the one remaining competitive foreigner at global events isn't going to have an effect?
Tournaments not including Naniwa are doing fine. And Scarlett has reached an international tournament final more recently than Naniwa.
Have we gone from "There's enough space for LoL and SC2 in the sports realm" to "I'm okay that SC2 is the 4th most popular game"? lol
And just checking Scarlett's liquipedia, I don't see anything as big as Blizzcon or IEM world's.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
Now that Naniwa is gone I expected viewership to increase dramatically. /s
What a silly thing to say. I don't expect viewership to increase. I expect it to stay roughly the same. Believe it or not most people watch the game because they like the game not because they are obsessed with one player.
Yeah people keep saying that but SC2 keeps losing viewers. You think the dismissal of the one remaining competitive foreigner at global events isn't going to have an effect?
Tournaments not including Naniwa are doing fine. And Scarlett has reached an international tournament final more recently than Naniwa.
Have we gone from "There's enough space for LoL and SC2 in the sports realm" to "I'm okay that SC2 is the 4th most popular game"? lol
And just checking Scarlett's liquipedia, I don't see anything as big as Blizzcon or IEM world's.
Lol. Naniwa qualified for IEM Worlds (and Blizzcon basically) by getting second place at IEM New York which was a tournament not even as stacked as ASUS ROG at Northcon which is the tournament I am referring to. And your first statement doesn't make much sense. But keep on believing that Naniwa was the thing keeping SC2 afloat if that makes you happy. Feel free to PM me in a month or so when SC2 is dead to gloat.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
Now that Naniwa is gone I expected viewership to increase dramatically. /s
What a silly thing to say. I don't expect viewership to increase. I expect it to stay roughly the same. Believe it or not most people watch the game because they like the game not because they are obsessed with one player.
Yeah people keep saying that but SC2 keeps losing viewers. You think the dismissal of the one remaining competitive foreigner at global events isn't going to have an effect?
Nope, because everyone expected him to lose to Polt anyways.
That doesn't logically follow at all. Unless you think State playing in Proleague doesn't boost viewership because he's probably going to lose those games too.
He may have boosted viewership today, but beyond that I don't think he has an effect. Viewership will still be great, will break 100k imo. I didn't see anyone hyping Naniwa for this tournament. Yeah if he would have went deep, it probably would have helped. But its not like the tournaments viewership was make or break on Naniwa's performance. This tournament wasn't even like Blizzcon where people talked like, Naniwa vs Korea, must watch! It was more, oh yeah Naniwa qualified for this, but he just said he hasn't been playing at all so....
Rofl, such a bad mannered prick. Never thought of him as a pro, he doesn't deserved to be called one. Zero professionalism.
Good riddance.
EDIT: Please add this to OP The sense of entitlement is strong on this one. Fans are the reason why there are tournament prize money and sponsorship. So ignorant.
Even if he wants to come back now, I think that he's lost the ability to be employed by a credible team. I was a pretty big fan, through thick and thin. But this is pretty shameful. Insulting the fan base is what lost idra his position.
lol at all these people getting mad at the fact that naniwa is allowed to live his own life and just happens to be emotional person that used to enjoy starcraft.
On March 15 2014 13:51 Fhiz wrote: lol at all these people getting mad at the fact that naniwa is allowed to live his own life and just happens to be emotional person that used to enjoy starcraft.
On March 15 2014 13:41 Khai wrote: EDIT: Please add this to OP https://twitter.com/NaNiwaSC2/status/444651265923219456 The sense of entitlement is strong on this one. Fans are the reason why there are tournament prize money and sponsorship. So ignorant.
Seriously? The entire community is coming down on him like he's committed a crime against humanity. I'd feel the same way.
Naniwa clearly is an emotional person in a dark place, add a community that feeds into his fragile ego and this is the result of that feedback loop.
Anybody that followed the swedish warcraft3 scene knew Naniwa was a toxic person. Back in 2005 he would attend Lans under the id Skoth and was just overall a cancerous person bming others irl. Even though he gathered a lot of fans from his skill, I don't see how anybody would not like him. Glad to see his ego has finally caught and and it drove him out of his scene. I will miss his gameplay dearly but he as a person won't be missed.
On March 15 2014 13:41 Khai wrote: EDIT: Please add this to OP https://twitter.com/NaNiwaSC2/status/444651265923219456 The sense of entitlement is strong on this one. Fans are the reason why there are tournament prize money and sponsorship. So ignorant.
Seriously? The entire community is coming down on him like he's committed a crime against humanity. I'd feel the same way.
Naniwa clearly is an emotional person in a dark place, add a community that feeds into his fragile ego and this is the result of that feedback loop.
here's this: Naniwa didn't make money playing SC2 because sponsors and companies like giving out money to guys that play video games. He made money BECAUSE WE, THE COMMUNITY, WATCH AND SUPPORT PEOPLE WHO PLAY STARCRAFT. Without the community, him and every other starcraft pro doesn't have a job because there's no demand, no? In fact, if everyone stopped watching baseball or soccer/football or whatever other type of entertainment you want to name, you think those guys have a career? So no, he doesn't have to be a good boy or nice and kind in every situation but he sure as hell owes us a decent effort and not that crap he pulled today. Give me a break.
this Iem tournament really bored me, not cause of Naniwa left cause he wasn't enough confident it's his own feeling and i m no one to judge a man ! But Stardust losing two time in a row to same kind of thing, with non map control getting out position(at xel naga in Taeja range vision) without msc to recall, msc at home with no unit on field in case of drop at 14 min, what about those game ??? Taeja using early gg 2 time in row with no convincing advantage for the other player ??? what about that ? why ppl just choose to hate foreigner and Kr are angel that are out of the rule what is this community really ? in french 2 poids 2 mesures.
Mister caster you better not judge ppl playing but only games ! And if you don't love someone you should bother us with it !
Is Nani still sponsored by Alliance? If he still is, wonder how much longer they'll keep him around during his "indefinite break". Can't imagine A Garfield is too impressed with Nani at the moment.
Still sad to see him give up on the game when he has the potential (clearly not the attitude though), but if he's not having fun playing then I understand. Perhaps time to go back to school or think about long term career plans, eSports doesn't seem to be Nani's end game.
On March 15 2014 12:36 Dewdeur wrote: Really, guys? Say what you will but there is a logical consistency in him going out with a bang.
We all know he's an immature idiot. But he's our immature idiot. And a very lovable immature idiot. We love him for his skill and for his unpredictable behavior. If we spend 3 years giving this boy attention and cheering him on (regardless of his behavior), we better not act surprised when he acts precisely in the way we've encouraged him to act. This game is nothing without personality. Nothing at all.
Zinedine Zedane made his exit from the football-scene by head-butting Materazzi in the world cup final (his last ever official match). Let's all just think about that for a moment.
I say: cheers to Nani, thank you for the music, and let's hope there's someone else out there who can catch our attention like you did.
Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
Now that Naniwa is gone I expected viewership to increase dramatically. /s
What a silly thing to say. I don't expect viewership to increase. I expect it to stay roughly the same. Believe it or not most people watch the game because they like the game not because they are obsessed with one player.
Yeah people keep saying that but SC2 keeps losing viewers. You think the dismissal of the one remaining competitive foreigner at global events isn't going to have an effect?
Tournaments not including Naniwa are doing fine. And Scarlett has reached an international tournament final more recently than Naniwa.
Have we gone from "There's enough space for LoL and SC2 in the sports realm" to "I'm okay that SC2 is the 4th most popular game"? lol
And just checking Scarlett's liquipedia, I don't see anything as big as Blizzcon or IEM world's.
Lol. Naniwa qualified for IEM Worlds (and Blizzcon basically) by getting second place at IEM New York which was a tournament not even as stacked as ASUS ROG at Northcon which is the tournament I am referring to. And your first statement doesn't make much sense. But keep on believing that Naniwa was the thing keeping SC2 afloat if that makes you happy. Feel free to PM me in a month or so when SC2 is dead to gloat.
Not even as stacked as ASUS ROG at Northcon? Please, I think they were both equally as stacked at best for ASUS ROG. IEM New York was the epitome of a stacked, under prize pooled tournament at the time.
Although I agree today his behavior was awful and that he should've given his spot to someone more worthy, I don't believe that he's as toxic or cancerous to the scene as others have said. He still deserves respect for being one of the best foreigners in the scene at the moment. It's one less top notch foreigner in the scene for us foreigners to root for, which is pretty sad.
On March 15 2014 14:03 xxxKagexxx wrote: this Iem tournament really bored me, not cause of Naniwa left cause he wasn't enough confident it's his own feeling and i m no one to judge a man ! But Stardust losing two time in a row to same kind of thing, with non map control getting out position(at xel naga in Taeja range vision) without msc to recall, msc at home with no unit on field in case of drop at 14 min, what about those game ??? Taeja using early gg 2 time in row with no convincing advantage for the other player ??? what about that ? why ppl just choose to hate foreigner and Kr are angel that are out of the rule what is this community really ? in french 2 poids 2 mesures.
Mister caster you better not judge ppl playing but only games ! And if you don't love someone you should bother us with it !
What?! That is ridiculous. Plus there is a big difference between what Naniwa and Taeja did. Taeja lost his first two games by overestimating his disadvantages and left too early. HOWEVER, he stuck with it and came back. And are you comparing Stardust making in game mistakes that anyone could make with this stunt Naniwa pulled? Naniwa gave up plain and simple and that's the difference.
On March 15 2014 12:38 Yorkie wrote: [quote] Correction, some people loved him for it. Others did not think that was behavior that should be idolized and encouraged.
Some people prefer vanilla, others prefer color.
Some people prefer people who act like adults and behave professionally. If that's vanilla then sign me up. You can keep the "colorful" ones who pull stunts like this. The scene isn't as hurt by his departure as some people would like to believe.
Now that Naniwa is gone I expected viewership to increase dramatically. /s
What a silly thing to say. I don't expect viewership to increase. I expect it to stay roughly the same. Believe it or not most people watch the game because they like the game not because they are obsessed with one player.
Yeah people keep saying that but SC2 keeps losing viewers. You think the dismissal of the one remaining competitive foreigner at global events isn't going to have an effect?
Tournaments not including Naniwa are doing fine. And Scarlett has reached an international tournament final more recently than Naniwa.
Have we gone from "There's enough space for LoL and SC2 in the sports realm" to "I'm okay that SC2 is the 4th most popular game"? lol
And just checking Scarlett's liquipedia, I don't see anything as big as Blizzcon or IEM world's.
Lol. Naniwa qualified for IEM Worlds (and Blizzcon basically) by getting second place at IEM New York which was a tournament not even as stacked as ASUS ROG at Northcon which is the tournament I am referring to. And your first statement doesn't make much sense. But keep on believing that Naniwa was the thing keeping SC2 afloat if that makes you happy. Feel free to PM me in a month or so when SC2 is dead to gloat.
Not even as stacked as ASUS ROG at Northcon? Please, I think they were both equally as stacked at best for ASUS ROG. IEM New York was the epitome of a stacked, under prize pooled tournament at the time.
Although I agree today his behavior was awful and that he should've given his spot to someone more worthy, I don't believe that he's as toxic or cancerous to the scene as others have said. He still deserves respect for being one of the best foreigners in the scene at the moment. It's one less top notch foreigner in the scene for us foreigners to root for, which is pretty sad.
I took another look at the player lists and I admit I will give the nod to IEM NY. Still Naniwa beat Hack twice, San, and Hyun to make the final, while Scarlett beat Jjakji, elfi, Stardust, and Life to reach hers. This is still arguable for either side. The point is there are other foreigners who can make deep runs.
On March 15 2014 14:01 Rickyvalle21 wrote: Anybody that followed the swedish warcraft3 scene knew Naniwa was a toxic person. Back in 2005 he would attend Lans under the id Skoth and was just overall a cancerous person bming others irl. Even though he gathered a lot of fans from his skill, I don't see how anybody would not like him. Glad to see his ego has finally caught and and it drove him out of his scene. I will miss his gameplay dearly but he as a person won't be missed.
His ego caught up to him? I wouldnt want to play on what is probably going to be the biggest stage of the year after not having practiced for a month because of the current state of the game.. It was either get stomped for 2 more games or leave right then and there and now everyone is flipping out and its hilarious because everyone inside the sc community places this community on it on some high pedestal like we're all really mature and are respectful or something and then someone does something that we didnt like and instead of respecting his decision that he made and had all the reason to make we take an immature "good riddance its so bad manner, hes been mad manner since 2005 im so angry i didnt get to see 10 more minutes of naniwa trying to proxy somethign and failing > ". Its just I cant understand the response to this, he took the high ground and people booed I give him 100% respect for bowing down when he did.
For the record i was never a huge naniwa fan, I would go as far to say i hated him at one point. But really every time i read a thread or forum when something controversial happens I think about my favorite Churchill quote "the best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter"
On March 15 2014 14:01 Rickyvalle21 wrote: Anybody that followed the swedish warcraft3 scene knew Naniwa was a toxic person. Back in 2005 he would attend Lans under the id Skoth and was just overall a cancerous person bming others irl. Even though he gathered a lot of fans from his skill, I don't see how anybody would not like him. Glad to see his ego has finally caught and and it drove him out of his scene. I will miss his gameplay dearly but he as a person won't be missed.
His ego caught up to him? I wouldnt want to play on what is probably going to be the biggest stage of the year after not having practiced for a month because of the current state of the game.. It was either get stomped for 2 more games or leave right then and there and now everyone is flipping out and its hilarious because everyone inside the sc community places this community on it on some high pedestal like we're all really mature and are respectful or something and then someone does something that we didnt like and instead of respecting his decision that he made and had all the reason to make we take an immature "good riddance its so bad manner, hes been mad manner since 2005 im so angry i didnt get to see 10 more minutes of naniwa trying to proxy somethign and failing > ". Its just I cant understand the response to this, he took the high ground and people booed I give him 100% respect for bowing down when he did.
For the record i was never a huge naniwa fan, I would go as far to say i hated him at one point. But really every time i read a thread or forum when something controversial happens I think about my favorite Churchill quote "the best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter"
TIL "the high ground" means going to a tournament you are completely unprepared for, using a ridiculous build, accusing the other player of cheating when you get scouted, and forfeiting instead of doing his best to win. You certainly talk down on the average member of the community and their claims but my god are you making some ridiculous ones.
I heard it was Naniwa's birthday today? If so, I hope he wasn't sad or mad and could still have a good day. No one should be unhappy on their birthday.
On March 15 2014 14:01 Rickyvalle21 wrote: Anybody that followed the swedish warcraft3 scene knew Naniwa was a toxic person. Back in 2005 he would attend Lans under the id Skoth and was just overall a cancerous person bming others irl. Even though he gathered a lot of fans from his skill, I don't see how anybody would not like him. Glad to see his ego has finally caught and and it drove him out of his scene. I will miss his gameplay dearly but he as a person won't be missed.
His ego caught up to him? I wouldnt want to play on what is probably going to be the biggest stage of the year after not having practiced for a month because of the current state of the game.. It was either get stomped for 2 more games or leave right then and there and now everyone is flipping out and its hilarious because everyone inside the sc community places this community on it on some high pedestal like we're all really mature and are respectful or something and then someone does something that we didnt like and instead of respecting his decision that he made and had all the reason to make we take an immature "good riddance its so bad manner, hes been mad manner since 2005 im so angry i didnt get to see 10 more minutes of naniwa trying to proxy somethign and failing > ". Its just I cant understand the response to this, he took the high ground and people booed I give him 100% respect for bowing down when he did.
For the record i was never a huge naniwa fan, I would go as far to say i hated him at one point. But really every time i read a thread or forum when something controversial happens I think about my favorite Churchill quote "the best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter"
TIL "the high ground" means going to a tournament you are completely unprepared for, using a ridiculous build, accusing the other player of cheating when you get scouted, and forfeiting instead of doing his best to win. You certainly talk down on the average member of the community and their claims but my god are you making some ridiculous ones.
Wow, what a ridiculous claim for respecting the choice naniwa had the right to make. And even polt said he could hear the casters so lol
I would of never expected anything that poor from ESL
On March 15 2014 14:01 Rickyvalle21 wrote: Anybody that followed the swedish warcraft3 scene knew Naniwa was a toxic person. Back in 2005 he would attend Lans under the id Skoth and was just overall a cancerous person bming others irl. Even though he gathered a lot of fans from his skill, I don't see how anybody would not like him. Glad to see his ego has finally caught and and it drove him out of his scene. I will miss his gameplay dearly but he as a person won't be missed.
His ego caught up to him? I wouldnt want to play on what is probably going to be the biggest stage of the year after not having practiced for a month because of the current state of the game.. It was either get stomped for 2 more games or leave right then and there and now everyone is flipping out and its hilarious because everyone inside the sc community places this community on it on some high pedestal like we're all really mature and are respectful or something and then someone does something that we didnt like and instead of respecting his decision that he made and had all the reason to make we take an immature "good riddance its so bad manner, hes been mad manner since 2005 im so angry i didnt get to see 10 more minutes of naniwa trying to proxy somethign and failing > ". Its just I cant understand the response to this, he took the high ground and people booed I give him 100% respect for bowing down when he did.
For the record i was never a huge naniwa fan, I would go as far to say i hated him at one point. But really every time i read a thread or forum when something controversial happens I think about my favorite Churchill quote "the best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter"
TIL "the high ground" means going to a tournament you are completely unprepared for, using a ridiculous build, accusing the other player of cheating when you get scouted, and forfeiting instead of doing his best to win. You certainly talk down on the average member of the community and their claims but my god are you making some ridiculous ones.
Wow, what a ridiculous claim for respecting the choice naniwa had the right to make. And even polt said he could hear the casters so lol
I would of never expected anything that poor from ESL
Yeah he had to right to forfeit. If you want to applaud that move that's fine, just know that you are the minority because it was kind of an unprofessional and stupid move. As far as the sound proofing issue read back in the thread. There are multiple people who link tweets of tournament organizers and attendees saying how there were no sound proofing issues, and a few that say there were so I don't know what to believe. All I know is that he should have made one of two choices: play out the series, or not come to the event at all. He made neither of those choices and did something stupid. That's it. Can't believe you are defending Naniwa to the death here and shitting on ESL for trying to run a nice tournament.
On March 15 2014 14:01 Rickyvalle21 wrote: Anybody that followed the swedish warcraft3 scene knew Naniwa was a toxic person. Back in 2005 he would attend Lans under the id Skoth and was just overall a cancerous person bming others irl. Even though he gathered a lot of fans from his skill, I don't see how anybody would not like him. Glad to see his ego has finally caught and and it drove him out of his scene. I will miss his gameplay dearly but he as a person won't be missed.
His ego caught up to him? I wouldnt want to play on what is probably going to be the biggest stage of the year after not having practiced for a month because of the current state of the game.. It was either get stomped for 2 more games or leave right then and there and now everyone is flipping out and its hilarious because everyone inside the sc community places this community on it on some high pedestal like we're all really mature and are respectful or something and then someone does something that we didnt like and instead of respecting his decision that he made and had all the reason to make we take an immature "good riddance its so bad manner, hes been mad manner since 2005 im so angry i didnt get to see 10 more minutes of naniwa trying to proxy somethign and failing > ". Its just I cant understand the response to this, he took the high ground and people booed I give him 100% respect for bowing down when he did.
For the record i was never a huge naniwa fan, I would go as far to say i hated him at one point. But really every time i read a thread or forum when something controversial happens I think about my favorite Churchill quote "the best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter"
TIL "the high ground" means going to a tournament you are completely unprepared for, using a ridiculous build, accusing the other player of cheating when you get scouted, and forfeiting instead of doing his best to win. You certainly talk down on the average member of the community and their claims but my god are you making some ridiculous ones.
Don't forget about his super classy "took the high ground" tweet afterwards:
NaNiwa is a child. His brain hasn't developed enough to handle his own fame. He just wasn't ready. It's a bit cliché, but he's a lot like Justin Bieber in this regard; there's some talent in there, but he's such an immature piece of shit that no one really cares anymore.
NaNiwa will exit the scene as the ultimate antihero, which is pretty funny since he was hailed as being the foreign hope for so long.
Being a professional is being "professional". If you want to claim the phrase of being an online professional gamer then you take on a certain responsibility. There are fans that look up to you and want to attain you greatness. Also, the fact that Naniwa called the SC2 community "disgusting" should speak volumes. I love Naniwa's tactics...but everyone hates a terrible personality.
On March 15 2014 13:41 Khai wrote: Rofl, such a bad mannered prick. Never thought of him as a pro, he doesn't deserved to be called one. Zero professionalism.
On March 15 2014 13:41 Khai wrote: Rofl, such a bad mannered prick. Never thought of him as a pro, he doesn't deserved to be called one. Zero professionalism.
On March 15 2014 14:58 Nirel wrote: I can't believe people are still defending him, I wonder what he has to do for people to stop making excuses for him.
I also cannot believe there are any sympathetic people in this world.
The amount of f**k given today : -1 Gotta give it to naniwa for being completely immune to any public pressure/opnions/whatssoever, dude's got balls of steel lol. on a serious note, wouldn't things like this requires a fine or something? seeing as ban doesn't mean anything for him/other people who perform similar acts at this point.
On March 15 2014 14:58 Nirel wrote: I can't believe people are still defending him, I wonder what he has to do for people to stop making excuses for him.
I also cannot believe there are any sympathetic people in this world.
On March 15 2014 14:58 Nirel wrote: I can't believe people are still defending him, I wonder what he has to do for people to stop making excuses for him.
Swedish pride too strong on the internet. I think the only thing that might rival it is an American defending an American. And I say that as a person who has been in both places and is friends with a great many people from both. I've never known two groups of people that are so amazingly alike aside from a handful of very obvious differences.
So yeah he'll always have defenders even though he totally seems to be doing everything possible to scare them off.
I kinda feel bad for Team Alliance. Do they really want a player who is a quitter AND attacks the community for criticizing his highly unprofessional behaviour??
On March 15 2014 15:09 ilikeredheads wrote: oh naniwa with the classy tweet
I kinda feel bad for Team Alliance. Do they really want a player who is a quitter AND attacks the community for criticizing his highly unprofessional behaviour??
They've had one before I'm sure they have a protocol in place now.
Here's how I see it Sound proofing issues wouldn't have changed the outcome of that game. Consider though he's under prepared and probably planned at least some more proxy/cheeses, even casters mentioned he'd probably have to play the aggressor, after all it is Polt. Now think if it were to make it to a game 5, proxies in a place where Polt doesn't check but almost sees it, crowd reacts, Polt then sees it and shuts it down. I'm pretty sure if any sort of situation like that were to play out, he'd consider it a waste of time. So what's he do? Forfeits instead of playing it out, crappy? yes, but in my mind if he doesn't feel like he can compete with whatever he HAS prepared, just save everyone's time and quits.
Does he deserve the spot? Yes, he earned it. Should he have played? Questionable. He came, tried, failed then decided to quit early.
Honestly, he still is/was one of the best foreigners, has produced great games and entertainment all sorts of ways in the past. Speaks his mind for better or worse (usually worse) but for that I give him a bit of credit. He's ending on a low note, but I think his involvement in SC2 has been an overall positive, and for that I'm happy (not that he cares that I'm happy *tear*)
Edit* And about his comment about the toxic community or what not, it is sorta true, I mean people focus on all the negative of everything (consider "news" channels, always/usually focusing on the bad) I know this is the current event at hand, but then when people bring up the past they always just focus on the bad to summarize everything that's "happened" in his past.
On March 15 2014 15:33 Troutsky wrote: Here's how I see it Sound proofing issues wouldn't have changed the outcome of that game. Consider though he's under prepared and probably planned at least some more proxy/cheeses, even casters mentioned he'd probably have to play the aggressor, after all it is Polt. Now think if it were to make it to a game 5, proxies in a place where Polt doesn't check but almost sees it, crowd reacts, Polt then sees it and shuts it down. I'm pretty sure if any sort of situation like that were to play out, he'd consider it a waste of time. So what's he do? Forfeits instead of playing it out, crappy? yes, but in my mind if he doesn't feel like he can compete with whatever he HAS prepared, just save everyone's time and quits.
Does he deserve the spot? Yes, he earned it. Should he have played? Questionable. He came, tried, failed then decided to quit early.
Honestly, he still is/was one of the best foreigners, has produced great games and entertainment all sorts of ways in the past. Speaks his mind for better or worse (usually worse) but for that I give him a bit of credit. He's ending on a low note, but I think his involvement in SC2 has been an overall positive, and for that I'm happy (not that he cares that I'm happy *tear*)
Edit* And about his comment about the toxic community or what not, it is sorta true, I mean people focus on all the negative of everything (consider "news" channels, always/usually focusing on the bad) I know this is the current event at hand, but then when people bring up the past they always just focus on the bad to summarize everything that's "happened" in his past.
Recheck the vod, Polt didn't change his scv path, he saw it when the scv "bugged" against the gaz. Crowd didn't help at all.
I'd be honestly interested to hear the opinion of the other players if there is soundproofing or not at IEM. Since no one has spoken up, I'm under the assumption that the sound proofing is fine.
On March 15 2014 15:56 AceOfCakez wrote: I'd be honestly interested to hear the opinion of the other players if there is soundproofing or not at IEM. Since no one has spoken up, I'm under the assumption that the sound proofing is fine.
ESL asked the other players, including LoL players, and everyone agreed that the sound proofing was adequate.
Durr...that's my point? I said sound proofing would NOT change things in that first game? I'm saying it could potentially in future games if all he prepared were cheese and one was discovered due to sound proofing being an issue. Sorry, if it sounded like I meant that it did affect the game.
Edit* Bout sound proofing I've only seen claims that Naniwa, San and Polt have mentioned sound proofing issues. Would be nice to see players comments on it though, and not have to wait to say anything but actually be asked, given how everyone treats people who might use it as an excuse, I'm sure they're more than hesitant to say anything.
On March 15 2014 15:56 AceOfCakez wrote: I'd be honestly interested to hear the opinion of the other players if there is soundproofing or not at IEM. Since no one has spoken up, I'm under the assumption that the sound proofing is fine.
ESL asked the other players, including LoL players, and everyone agreed that the sound proofing was adequate.
The LoL players aren't going to rock the boat for no reason.
Unless you really think they were being honest that a curtain on the LoL stage is "soundproof".
On March 15 2014 13:41 Khai wrote: EDIT: Please add this to OP https://twitter.com/NaNiwaSC2/status/444651265923219456 The sense of entitlement is strong on this one. Fans are the reason why there are tournament prize money and sponsorship. So ignorant.
Seriously? The entire community is coming down on him like he's committed a crime against humanity. I'd feel the same way.
Naniwa clearly is an emotional person in a dark place, add a community that feeds into his fragile ego and this is the result of that feedback loop.
So behaving the way he does is alright because he's an "emotional person"? Every person has emotions. It's knowing when and how to show them that makes you a professional. Naniwa acts like a spoiled child does: throwing tantrums because things don't go his way.
The amount of BS people come up with to excuse the behaviour of the likes of Idra and Naniwa is just staggering.
It's a shame all the hate Nani is getting. I don't agree with his decisions, but he's obviously not in a good place. As for forfeiting the tournament, there is nothing "unprofessional" about it unless he signed some contract with his team saying he would play the whole thing. It's within his rights.
Theres a saying. "lose with pride, win with dignity" Nani displayed none of these qualities as he simply gave up and ended (most likely) his career with thousands of fans booing behind him. Yet again showing what bad e-sportsman he is.
I'm a fan of Nani but this was pretty bad. Was is even worse though is his twitter, like someone in the Nani fanclub posted, Nani has pretty much given the SC2 community the finger pretty hard with his lol tweets and other behaviour.
What takes the cake is that Naniwa somehow feels entitled to be cheered for, he call it a "disgusting community" and says he don't owe us anything. Well Nani is a disgusting player towards his fans and we as fans don't bloody owe him anything. All he's ever done is play for himself, why does he act like he can be a total douche towards the whole community but still think he's entitled to us still cheering for him.
You can be a disgusting bastard towards your fans if you so choose Nani, but right now I'm pretty damn sick of you... But we'll see how I feel in the future. I don't owe you anything.
Apologies if this question has been answered already, but it seems obvious - did anyone ask Polt if he was tipped off by the commentators or the crowd and scouted for that reason?
Looking at it, it doesn't look like he did anything differently from what he was planning to do anyways. I would guess that even if he could hear the commentators and understand what they were saying, he wasn't paying attention and just concentrating on his own build.
On March 15 2014 14:58 Nirel wrote: I can't believe people are still defending him, I wonder what he has to do for people to stop making excuses for him.
Swedish pride too strong on the internet. I think the only thing that might rival it is an American defending an American. And I say that as a person who has been in both places and is friends with a great many people from both. I've never known two groups of people that are so amazingly alike aside from a handful of very obvious differences.
So yeah he'll always have defenders even though he totally seems to be doing everything possible to scare them off.
I am from Sweden and there is no player i dislike more out there than Naniwa... O.o
This whole situation is so stupid according to me:
1 - Polt already had his SCVs scouting set There was not way Polt scouted like he did reacting to the noise from the crowd. He had already set the scouting pattern for the SCV (it is very obvious since the casters even displays the set trip for it).
2 - What was IEM suppoed to do anyway? You can never give a regame for what happend. If so, anyone could make proxies every game and each time they got scouted they would complain about the crowd. Proxying would turn out into something risk-free. If I dont remember very wrong, you are always able to feel the vibrations from the crowd through all the covers. I mean, they could make them play from New York if they want to be safe. Would be fun, aight?
Well you could tell the crowd to STFU as someone in this thread suggested since they do that in golf and tennis. Had that not been really fun tournaments to visit? Everyone sitting quiet, being afraid to upset Nani in the booth? I think everyone prefers the arena atmosphere - with perhaps a few Nanifans excluded today.
3 - Naniwa if anyone has no moral right to complain When playing vs Flash on MLG - Naniwa clearly had no shame in his body turning his scouting probe around when the crowd reacted to him missing Flashs proxy barracks. You find it here
To Sumarize - This is what happends when everyone babysits a child
With nations wars coming up Naniwa did some not really classy moves shutting both Miniraiser and Thorzain out of the team. Instantly the Swedish manager and some other quite high profiled persons in Swedish Esport ride out to his protection because "he is the star and he can do whatever he wants".
When you again, and again, get told that you can do what you want because you are the at it - it wont really strenght your attitude. It will make things like this happend - Naniwa clearly thought he could do whatever he wanted at IEM aswell but nobody actually got impressed this time. Nobody is riding out to answer his cries for justice. There he stands alone, looking like a lone fool.
I have said it for a long time - Naniwas attitude will never be accepted the moment that he is no longer clearly the best non-korean. With that in mind, we should not accept his attitude just because he happends to be a good starcraft player. That itself never gives you the right to act as you want. Neither gives it the best doctor at the hospital the right to call the patiences idiots, morons and a stupid community. You would never accept that at a normal work and I dont think we should accept Naniwa acting as he do either.
On March 15 2014 17:48 coverpunch wrote: Apologies if this question has been answered already, but it seems obvious - did anyone ask Polt if he was tipped off by the commentators or the crowd and scouted for that reason?
Looking at it, it doesn't look like he did anything differently from what he was planning to do anyways. I would guess that even if he could hear the commentators and understand what they were saying, he wasn't paying attention and just concentrating on his own build.
Don't need to ask him. He was sending the scout before the crowd started cheering. That plus all the players asked at the event have said the sound proofing isn't an issue (including the LoL players). Naniwa was looking for an excuse and he found it.
On March 15 2014 14:58 Nirel wrote: I can't believe people are still defending him, I wonder what he has to do for people to stop making excuses for him.
Swedish pride too strong on the internet. I think the only thing that might rival it is an American defending an American. And I say that as a person who has been in both places and is friends with a great many people from both. I've never known two groups of people that are so amazingly alike aside from a handful of very obvious differences.
So yeah he'll always have defenders even though he totally seems to be doing everything possible to scare them off.
I have said it for a long time - Naniwas attitude will never be accepted the moment that he is no longer clearly the best non-korean. With that in mind, we should not accept his attitude just because he happends to be a good starcraft player. That itself never gives you the right to act as you want. Neither gives it the best doctor at the hospital the right to call the patiences idiots, morons and a stupid community. You would never accept that at a normal work and I dont think we should accept Naniwa acting as he do either.
Well said, I completely agree.
I've always hated Naniwa and will continue doing so, just because he has a terrible personality.
On March 15 2014 17:48 coverpunch wrote: Apologies if this question has been answered already, but it seems obvious - did anyone ask Polt if he was tipped off by the commentators or the crowd and scouted for that reason?
Looking at it, it doesn't look like he did anything differently from what he was planning to do anyways. I would guess that even if he could hear the commentators and understand what they were saying, he wasn't paying attention and just concentrating on his own build.
Don't need to ask him. He was sending the scout before the crowd started cheering. That plus all the players asked at the event have said the sound proofing isn't an issue (including the LoL players). Naniwa was looking for an excuse and he found it.
I think it's worth getting on the record at least. It's one thing for all the players to say sound-proofing isn't an issue. It's another for Polt to simply say he couldn't hear the casters and/or he wasn't paying attention.
On March 15 2014 14:58 Nirel wrote: I can't believe people are still defending him, I wonder what he has to do for people to stop making excuses for him.
Swedish pride too strong on the internet. I think the only thing that might rival it is an American defending an American. And I say that as a person who has been in both places and is friends with a great many people from both. I've never known two groups of people that are so amazingly alike aside from a handful of very obvious differences.
So yeah he'll always have defenders even though he totally seems to be doing everything possible to scare them off.
I am from Sweden and there is no player i dislike more out there than Naniwa... O.o
This whole situation is so stupid according to me:
1 - Polt already had his SCVs scouting set There was not way Polt scouted like he did reacting to the noise from the crowd. He had already set the scouting pattern for the SCV (it is very obvious since the casters even displays the set trip for it).
2 - What was IEM suppoed to do anyway? You can never give a regame for what happend. If so, anyone could make proxies every game and each time they got scouted they would complain about the crowd. Proxying would turn out into something risk-free. If I dont remember very wrong, you are always able to feel the vibrations from the crowd through all the covers. I mean, they could make them play from New York if they want to be safe. Would be fun, aight?
Well you could tell the crowd to STFU as someone in this thread suggested since they do that in golf and tennis. Had that not been really fun tournaments to visit? Everyone sitting quiet, being afraid to upset Nani in the booth? I think everyone prefers the arena atmosphere - with perhaps a few Nanifans excluded today.
3 - Naniwa if anyone has no moral right to complain When playing vs Flash on MLG - Naniwa clearly had no shame in his body turning his scouting probe around when the crowd reacted to him missing Flashs proxy barracks. You find it here
To Sumarize - This is what happends when everyone babysits a child
With nations wars coming up Naniwa did some not really classy moves shutting both Miniraiser and Thorzain out of the team. Instantly the Swedish manager and some other quite high profiled persons in Swedish Esport ride out to his protection because "he is the star and he can do whatever he wants".
When you again, and again, get told that you can do what you want because you are the best at home it wont really strenght your attitude. It will make things like this happend - Naniwa clearly thought he could do whatever he wanted at IEM aswell but nobody actually got impressed this time. Nobody is riding out to answer his cries for justice. There he stands alone, looking like a lone fool.
I have said it for a long time - Naniwas attitude will never be accepted the moment that he is no longer clearly the best non-korean. With that in mind, we should not accept his attitude just because he happends to be a good starcraft player. That itself never gives you the right to act as you want. Neither gives it the best doctor at the hospital the right to call the patiences idiots, morons and a stupid community. You would never accept that at a normal work and I dont think we should accept Naniwa acting as he do either.
This ^
Even though your English is a little off...I totally understand you and 100% agree...great post. End of Story.
Nani is a complete douchebag and his twitter only proves it.
im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything.
If he doesn't see how fans affect views and therefore amount of sponsors backing up this game then he really shouldn't be missed. No one, not even Intel would give a shit about this game if it wasn't for us, regular players, watching their sc2 tournaments and therefore buying their products (Let's be honest, these things are filled with ads). I swear to god sc2 is a great game but it has too many players who've lost touch with reality.
im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything.
If he doesn't see how fans affect views and therefore amount of sponsors backing up this game then he really shouldn't be missed. No one, not even Intel would give a shit about this game if it wasn't for us, regular players, watching their sc2 tournaments and therefore buying their products (Let's be honest, these things are filled with ads). I swear to god sc2 is a great game but it has too many players who've lost touch with reality.
Yeah, no athlete would ever dare to piss off their WHOLE community because they'd know that this would cost their career. Esports really shows its flaws in that regard
On March 15 2014 02:54 Damngood wrote: I agree with Naniwa's opinion and decision. I disagree with his execution, at a minimum though this gets more people to realize how dead sc2 is becoming and how much the game needs a complete revamping equivalent if not more to that of the d3 series currently. Him acting like a dumbass is inadvertently aiding a great cause for selfish reasons. By the way the guy would not randomly complain about soundproofing for no reason and considering IEM's reputation on that being just as poor as Naniwa's PR... Think about it.
I'll get back to you when the finals break 100k viewers and we can talk about the game being 'dead'
Lolz.....no way dude. They're all watching lol, Dota, CS, then maybe hots...
im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything.
If he doesn't see how fans affect views and therefore amount of sponsors backing up this game then he really shouldn't be missed. No one, not even Intel would give a shit about this game if it wasn't for us, regular players, watching their sc2 tournaments and therefore buying their products (Let's be honest, these things are filled with ads). I swear to god sc2 is a great game but it has too many players who've lost touch with reality.
The community always keeps pointing out, that without the fans, there would be no e-sports and forgets that without players there would'nt be esports either. The players are'nt our humble servants, who have to do everything to please the allmighty fans. The player-community relationship is one, that both parties benefit from, so no, technically he does'nt owe us anything, otherwise we would owe him something as well for watching his games.
On March 15 2014 02:54 Damngood wrote: I agree with Naniwa's opinion and decision. I disagree with his execution, at a minimum though this gets more people to realize how dead sc2 is becoming and how much the game needs a complete revamping equivalent if not more to that of the d3 series currently. Him acting like a dumbass is inadvertently aiding a great cause for selfish reasons. By the way the guy would not randomly complain about soundproofing for no reason and considering IEM's reputation on that being just as poor as Naniwa's PR... Think about it.
I'll get back to you when the finals break 100k viewers and we can talk about the game being 'dead'
Lolz.....no way dude. They're all watching lol, Dota, CS, then maybe hots...
While I respect your educated opinion, please keep in mind, that all finals not neccessarily overlap, that there is no Dota-tournament and that we already got around 50k at the ro16.
On March 15 2014 01:26 Firkraag8 wrote: The way he went about it was inappropriate, but if he could hear the crowd then he has a legitimate reason to be upset if then also the admin wouldn't hear his side of it.
You can bitch all you want, but what do you seriously expect them to do on the spot? Postpone the match for a week while they find new booths? Get real.
On March 15 2014 18:27 Kunzzi wrote: Nani is a complete douchebag and his twitter only proves it.
im glad to be done with this disgusting community for now, lets see how i feel in the future. i dont owe you anything.
If he doesn't see how fans affect views and therefore amount of sponsors backing up this game then he really shouldn't be missed. No one, not even Intel would give a shit about this game if it wasn't for us, regular players, watching their sc2 tournaments and therefore buying their products (Let's be honest, these things are filled with ads). I swear to god sc2 is a great game but it has too many players who've lost touch with reality.
The community always keeps pointing out, that without the fans, there would be no e-sports and forgets that without players there would'nt be esports either. The players are'nt our humble servants, who have to do everything to please the allmighty fans. The player-community relationship is one, that both parties benefit from, so no, technically he does'nt owe us anything, otherwise we would owe him something as well for watching his games.
On March 15 2014 02:54 Damngood wrote: I agree with Naniwa's opinion and decision. I disagree with his execution, at a minimum though this gets more people to realize how dead sc2 is becoming and how much the game needs a complete revamping equivalent if not more to that of the d3 series currently. Him acting like a dumbass is inadvertently aiding a great cause for selfish reasons. By the way the guy would not randomly complain about soundproofing for no reason and considering IEM's reputation on that being just as poor as Naniwa's PR... Think about it.
I'll get back to you when the finals break 100k viewers and we can talk about the game being 'dead'
Lolz.....no way dude. They're all watching lol, Dota, CS, then maybe hots...
While I respect your educated opinion, please keep in mind, that all finals not neccessarily overlap, that there is no Dota-tournament and that we already got around 50k at the ro16.
Sorry dude, there would be players even without *the players", that because almost every fan is also a player.
Its like football, or any sport for that matter, all active players could retire or whatever this very day and you know what, tomorrow there would still be football. The "players" you talk about are like the top of an Iceberg, they are the "best" right now and the ones competing. But if they retired there would be a huge line of competetive players behind just waiting for their chance.
A player like Naniwa kan compete like he does because he gets sponsored, he gets sponsored because companies believe that having him wear their logos and represent their company will increase their sales as good marketing. Bad publicity can still be good marketing but its a limit to that as well as demonstrated by the Idra case.
Any sponsor would be glad to exchange an investment that isn't paying off for one that would pay off. Naniwa doesn't owe us anything, we don't owe Naniwa anything. But you know what, Nani fucking owe Alliance for all the team has done for him and he also owes IEM. Naniwa said he doesn't give a fuck about SC2 at the moment but still accepts an invitation to poland, free hotel and a chance at winning 100k. He owes IEM that he sticks to his bloody side of the deal in accepting that spot and that would be that he plays. He could lose, he could not even try if he wanted to but he should have played those games, he owed that not to me, not to the community but to his team and to IEM.
On March 15 2014 18:58 wptlzkwjd wrote: I'm sure the sponsors are really happy with Naniwa having sent him over there so he could proxy gate and forfeit.
It was IEM who paid for the trip and not [A] sponsors?
On March 15 2014 14:58 Nirel wrote: I can't believe people are still defending him, I wonder what he has to do for people to stop making excuses for him.
Swedish pride too strong on the internet. I think the only thing that might rival it is an American defending an American. And I say that as a person who has been in both places and is friends with a great many people from both. I've never known two groups of people that are so amazingly alike aside from a handful of very obvious differences.
So yeah he'll always have defenders even though he totally seems to be doing everything possible to scare them off.
I am from Sweden and there is no player i dislike more out there than Naniwa... O.o
This whole situation is so stupid according to me:
1 - Polt already had his SCVs scouting set There was not way Polt scouted like he did reacting to the noise from the crowd. He had already set the scouting pattern for the SCV (it is very obvious since the casters even displays the set trip for it).
2 - What was IEM suppoed to do anyway? You can never give a regame for what happend. If so, anyone could make proxies every game and each time they got scouted they would complain about the crowd. Proxying would turn out into something risk-free. If I dont remember very wrong, you are always able to feel the vibrations from the crowd through all the covers. I mean, they could make them play from New York if they want to be safe. Would be fun, aight?
Well you could tell the crowd to STFU as someone in this thread suggested since they do that in golf and tennis. Had that not been really fun tournaments to visit? Everyone sitting quiet, being afraid to upset Nani in the booth? I think everyone prefers the arena atmosphere - with perhaps a few Nanifans excluded today.
3 - Naniwa if anyone has no moral right to complain When playing vs Flash on MLG - Naniwa clearly had no shame in his body turning his scouting probe around when the crowd reacted to him missing Flashs proxy barracks. You find it here
To Sumarize - This is what happends when everyone babysits a child
With nations wars coming up Naniwa did some not really classy moves shutting both Miniraiser and Thorzain out of the team. Instantly the Swedish manager and some other quite high profiled persons in Swedish Esport ride out to his protection because "he is the star and he can do whatever he wants".
When you again, and again, get told that you can do what you want because you are the best at home it wont really strenght your attitude. It will make things like this happend - Naniwa clearly thought he could do whatever he wanted at IEM aswell but nobody actually got impressed this time. Nobody is riding out to answer his cries for justice. There he stands alone, looking like a lone fool.
I have said it for a long time - Naniwas attitude will never be accepted the moment that he is no longer clearly the best non-korean. With that in mind, we should not accept his attitude just because he happends to be a good starcraft player. That itself never gives you the right to act as you want. Neither gives it the best doctor at the hospital the right to call the patiences idiots, morons and a stupid community. You would never accept that at a normal work and I dont think we should accept Naniwa acting as he do either.
Pretty much said everything right there. Also: I just rewatched the VOD and noticed that Artosis & Apollo are trying not to laugh as Naniwa wrote into the ingame chat. ^^
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: Sorry dude, there would be players even without *the players", that because almost every fan is also a player.
Its like football, or any sport for that matter, all active players could retire or whatever this very day and you know what, tomorrow there would still be football. The "players" you talk about are like the top of an Iceberg, they are the "best" right now and the ones competing. But if they retired there would be a huge line of competetive players behind just waiting for their chance.
This is'nt about the top players, this is about players in general. The community treats players as their servants, not as their partners. The players play this game, because it is fun for them and because it is their job, not because they view themselves as entertainers of the community. Some do and that brings them extra-support, but as I said, that is extra. It is not a players duty, to do whatever he can to entertain the community. And yeah, ofc. there would be replacements, since there are a lot of players, but you can´t argue, that it is also in the communities intrest, that we can watch herO vs Hyun instead of avilo vs destiny.
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: A player like Naniwa kan compete like he does because he gets sponsored, he gets sponsored because companies believe that having him wear their logos and represent their company will increase their sales as good marketing. Bad publicity can still be good marketing but its a limit to that as well as demonstrated by the Idra case.
Any sponsor would be glad to exchange an investment that isn't paying off for one that would pay off. Naniwa doesn't owe us anything, we don't owe Naniwa anything. But you know what, Nani fucking owe Alliance for all the team has done for him and he also owes IEM. Naniwa said he doesn't give a fuck about SC2 at the moment but still accepts an invitation to poland, free hotel and a chance at winning 100k. He owes IEM that he sticks to his bloody side of the deal in accepting that spot and that would be that he plays. He could lose, he could not even try if he wanted to but he should have played those games, he owed that not to me, not to the community but to his team and to IEM.
I can see that being a valid point, and I would accept it, if IEM/Alliance would complain about it. But AFAIK, most people complaining in this thread are neither ESL officials nor Allinace staff members.
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: Sorry dude, there would be players even without *the players", that because almost every fan is also a player.
Its like football, or any sport for that matter, all active players could retire or whatever this very day and you know what, tomorrow there would still be football. The "players" you talk about are like the top of an Iceberg, they are the "best" right now and the ones competing. But if they retired there would be a huge line of competetive players behind just waiting for their chance.
This is'nt about the top players, this is about players in general. The community treats players as their servants, not as their partners. The players play this game, because it is fun for them and because it is their job, not because they view themselves as entertainers of the community. Some do and that brings them extra-support, but as I said, that is extra. It is not a players duty, to do whatever he can to entertain the community. And yeah, ofc. there would be replacements, since there are a lot of players, but you can´t argue, that it is also in the communities intrest, that we can watch herO vs Hyun instead of avilo vs destiny.
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: A player like Naniwa kan compete like he does because he gets sponsored, he gets sponsored because companies believe that having him wear their logos and represent their company will increase their sales as good marketing. Bad publicity can still be good marketing but its a limit to that as well as demonstrated by the Idra case.
Any sponsor would be glad to exchange an investment that isn't paying off for one that would pay off. Naniwa doesn't owe us anything, we don't owe Naniwa anything. But you know what, Nani fucking owe Alliance for all the team has done for him and he also owes IEM. Naniwa said he doesn't give a fuck about SC2 at the moment but still accepts an invitation to poland, free hotel and a chance at winning 100k. He owes IEM that he sticks to his bloody side of the deal in accepting that spot and that would be that he plays. He could lose, he could not even try if he wanted to but he should have played those games, he owed that not to me, not to the community but to his team and to IEM.
I can see that being a valid point, and I would accept it, if IEM/Alliance would complain about it. But AFAIK, most people complaining in this thread are neither ESL officials nor Allinace staff members.
You say it yourself, they play the game... because its their job? You say the community treats players like their servants, I strongly disagree with that. Playing the game is their job, how did Naniwa do his job? I'm not saying im a customer in this instance or whatever. From your perspective he obviously didn't do his job. Whats wrong with being upset that someone totally ditches their work and at the same is a total douchebag in the way he does it.
If you are not going to work, calling in sick, quiting your job. There are many ways of doing it that is NOT going to work like normal, putting yourself in a public situation and then going "Meh I just don't feel like it today".
So if someone works at Wallmart and steals loads of money and food, we as a community (the public) is not allowed to be upset about it because we are not the officals at Wallmart? xD lol If someone murders someone we are are not allowed to be upset because it doesn't hurt "us"? >_> Seriously
sc2 is a singleplayer game and therefore it is not that bad that the pro player scene has many different characters. There are good guys and some bad guys. SC2 lost one of their bad guys yesterday.
On March 15 2014 18:21 hariooo wrote: Hey guys I think Naniwa's behaviour is disgusting so I'm going to make jokes about real mental illnesses. /s
I was being sincere.
a diagnosis is only for a therapy and not helpful anywhere else.
Well, I think that at the very least it's something that might be considered so as to not be so mad at him or whatever. It might be due to that -- simply throwing it out as an avenue to think about without completely-100% agreeing that he's mentally unstable.
Cuz at the very least, it's ... odd but somewhat stable behavior, so it goes beyond most people's expectations for normative behavior. *shrug*. I'm not even mad or have an opinion on the actual subject, it's just interesting, I guess (in an objective way or something)
On March 15 2014 18:21 hariooo wrote: Hey guys I think Naniwa's behaviour is disgusting so I'm going to make jokes about real mental illnesses. /s
I was being sincere.
a diagnosis is only for a therapy and not helpful anywhere else.
Well, I think that at the very least it's something that might be considered so as to not be so mad at him or whatever. It might be due to that -- simply throwing it out as an avenue to think about without completely-100% agreeing that he's mentally unstable.
Cuz at the very least, it's ... odd but somewhat stable behavior, so it goes beyond most people's expectations for normative behavior. *shrug*. I'm not even mad or have an opinion on the actual subject, it's just interesting, I guess (in an objective way or something)
Not sure if it was mentioned but playing without soundbarrier actually gives the advantage to naniwa since most koreans don't speak english that well. Also it is incredibly stupid to give up on a decent chance for 100k, unbelievable.
On March 15 2014 14:58 Nirel wrote: I can't believe people are still defending him, I wonder what he has to do for people to stop making excuses for him.
Swedish pride too strong on the internet. I think the only thing that might rival it is an American defending an American. And I say that as a person who has been in both places and is friends with a great many people from both. I've never known two groups of people that are so amazingly alike aside from a handful of very obvious differences.
So yeah he'll always have defenders even though he totally seems to be doing everything possible to scare them off.
I am from Sweden and there is no player i dislike more out there than Naniwa... O.o
This whole situation is so stupid according to me:
1 - Polt already had his SCVs scouting set There was not way Polt scouted like he did reacting to the noise from the crowd. He had already set the scouting pattern for the SCV (it is very obvious since the casters even displays the set trip for it).
2 - What was IEM suppoed to do anyway? You can never give a regame for what happend. If so, anyone could make proxies every game and each time they got scouted they would complain about the crowd. Proxying would turn out into something risk-free. If I dont remember very wrong, you are always able to feel the vibrations from the crowd through all the covers. I mean, they could make them play from New York if they want to be safe. Would be fun, aight?
Well you could tell the crowd to STFU as someone in this thread suggested since they do that in golf and tennis. Had that not been really fun tournaments to visit? Everyone sitting quiet, being afraid to upset Nani in the booth? I think everyone prefers the arena atmosphere - with perhaps a few Nanifans excluded today.
3 - Naniwa if anyone has no moral right to complain When playing vs Flash on MLG - Naniwa clearly had no shame in his body turning his scouting probe around when the crowd reacted to him missing Flashs proxy barracks. You find it here
To Sumarize - This is what happends when everyone babysits a child
With nations wars coming up Naniwa did some not really classy moves shutting both Miniraiser and Thorzain out of the team. Instantly the Swedish manager and some other quite high profiled persons in Swedish Esport ride out to his protection because "he is the star and he can do whatever he wants".
When you again, and again, get told that you can do what you want because you are the at it - it wont really strenght your attitude. It will make things like this happend - Naniwa clearly thought he could do whatever he wanted at IEM aswell but nobody actually got impressed this time. Nobody is riding out to answer his cries for justice. There he stands alone, looking like a lone fool.
I have said it for a long time - Naniwas attitude will never be accepted the moment that he is no longer clearly the best non-korean. With that in mind, we should not accept his attitude just because he happends to be a good starcraft player. That itself never gives you the right to act as you want. Neither gives it the best doctor at the hospital the right to call the patiences idiots, morons and a stupid community. You would never accept that at a normal work and I dont think we should accept Naniwa acting as he do either.
I dont necessarily think that Naniwa's attitude was accepted because he was a good player, I think Naniwa's attitude was tolerated (at least for me and some others I know) because he is simply the only foreigner that can compete at the same level as koreans which is very very rare. If Foreigners could compete with Koreans a bit better I wouldn't tolerate it because he isn't a special player anymore, but in the past he has been one the very few foreigners that actually gave me hope and because of that he is still my favorite player despite his BM.
One Naniwa is all it takes to create 100.000 views in one thread. Only having breezed through the Tournament forum, that is more than 95% of all tournament threads on the first few pages. Who gives a crap about the game, when drama is all that really matters :-)
The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: Sorry dude, there would be players even without *the players", that because almost every fan is also a player.
Its like football, or any sport for that matter, all active players could retire or whatever this very day and you know what, tomorrow there would still be football. The "players" you talk about are like the top of an Iceberg, they are the "best" right now and the ones competing. But if they retired there would be a huge line of competetive players behind just waiting for their chance.
This is'nt about the top players, this is about players in general. The community treats players as their servants, not as their partners. The players play this game, because it is fun for them and because it is their job, not because they view themselves as entertainers of the community. Some do and that brings them extra-support, but as I said, that is extra. It is not a players duty, to do whatever he can to entertain the community. And yeah, ofc. there would be replacements, since there are a lot of players, but you can´t argue, that it is also in the communities intrest, that we can watch herO vs Hyun instead of avilo vs destiny.
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: A player like Naniwa kan compete like he does because he gets sponsored, he gets sponsored because companies believe that having him wear their logos and represent their company will increase their sales as good marketing. Bad publicity can still be good marketing but its a limit to that as well as demonstrated by the Idra case.
Any sponsor would be glad to exchange an investment that isn't paying off for one that would pay off. Naniwa doesn't owe us anything, we don't owe Naniwa anything. But you know what, Nani fucking owe Alliance for all the team has done for him and he also owes IEM. Naniwa said he doesn't give a fuck about SC2 at the moment but still accepts an invitation to poland, free hotel and a chance at winning 100k. He owes IEM that he sticks to his bloody side of the deal in accepting that spot and that would be that he plays. He could lose, he could not even try if he wanted to but he should have played those games, he owed that not to me, not to the community but to his team and to IEM.
I can see that being a valid point, and I would accept it, if IEM/Alliance would complain about it. But AFAIK, most people complaining in this thread are neither ESL officials nor Allinace staff members.
You say it yourself, they play the game... because its their job? You say the community treats players like their servants, I strongly disagree with that. Playing the game is their job, how did Naniwa do his job? I'm not saying im a customer in this instance or whatever. From your perspective he obviously didn't do his job. Whats wrong with being upset that someone totally ditches their work and at the same is a total douchebag in the way he does it.
If you are not going to work, calling in sick, quiting your job. There are many ways of doing it that is NOT going to work like normal, putting yourself in a public situation and then going "Meh I just don't feel like it today".
So if someone works at Wallmart and steals loads of money and food, we as a community (the public) is not allowed to be upset about it because we are not the officals at Wallmart? xD lol If someone murders someone we are are not allowed to be upset because it doesn't hurt "us"? >_> Seriously
Stealing something from Walmart is illegal. Killing someone is illegal. Forfitting a series is NOT illegal, it is within the players rights, so the comparism at this point is pretty unfitting. More fitting would be a 15-second 100m sprint or a Formula 1 driver crushing into a wall (Not Nelson Piquet jr, that man deserves community hate for what he did[Driving into a wall, so that his team partner could win, if you are'nt into F1]). If you ask me how Naniwa did his job yesterady, I could tell you, that it was'nt that good. And if you do your job not that good as a pro player, you don't get prize money. That is how it works in competition.
If you want a comparism to Wlamarkt stealing: This is what map hackers do. This is what stream cheaters do. Did Naniwa do any of that? No, he did'nt so please don't make it sound like he is a criminal.
Btw: Demuslim forfeited series mid series in the past. Did he get that much shit for it? Nony has forfeited series mid series in the past. Did he get that nuch shit for it? Stephano has forfeited a tournament between semi-final and final. Did he get that much shit for it?
Naniwa is an idiot. He should have just played it out. He should have known that everyone would react like this. Have some pride man. GL in your future life.
Wow his new tweets, he just doesn't know when to shut up.
I really hope he finds a new attitude when it comes to get a real job. Otherwise he will have a hard time. For me he's gone and I don't care about him anymore.
So much hate and rudeness going on towards Naniwa. I really feel sad for the guy. Forfeiting games isnt something new. And when Naniwa writes that "Polt could hear the casters too" I dont see why you shouldnt trust him.
And what is up with the disrespectful crowd, a player dont wanna play, we know some of the reasons but not the whole picture. And they boo him out.
Im not racist, but that would never happen in Dreamhack or at an MLG.
Naniwa have made a few choices that have been provocative before, but I dont see any wrong with this.
I see it like this, Naniwa is having a rough time right now. Be nice to the guy, like him or not, there are loads of people who still play sc2/watch sc2 only because of him.(I for example)
I think Im done with this community after some great years, I was hoping all along that Naniwa would get a nice retirement but I guess the community isnt what it was 2 years ago.
On March 15 2014 20:44 horvaa wrote: Wow, just wow.
So much hate and rudeness going on towards Naniwa. I really feel sad for the guy. Forfeiting games isnt something new. And when Naniwa writes that "Polt could hear the casters too" I dont see why you shouldnt trust him.
And what is up with the disrespectful crowd, a player dont wanna play, we know some of the reasons but not the whole picture. And they boo him out.
Im not racist, but that would never happen in Dreamhack or at an MLG.
Naniwa have made a few choices that have been provocative before, but I dont see any wrong with this.
I see it like this, Naniwa is having a rough time right now. Be nice to the guy, like him or not, there are loads of people who still play sc2/watch sc2 only because of him.(I for example)
I think Im done with this community after some great years, I was hoping all along that Naniwa would get a nice retirement but I guess the community isnt what it was 2 years ago.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Errr what is bad about the production of IEM? I think it is really great so far.
It's interesting that people are defending him on technical matters, like his eminent past, soundproofing issues and forfeiture rules.
I don't think it was WHAT Naniwa did that was unacceptable (well, not entirely, anyway). We know he's been a good player in the past, who has provided memorable and enjoyable games. Soundproofing has been a legitimate concern as of late; it's nothing new, and it can be serious. A number of players have resigned from tournaments for one reason or another; occasionally there have been flak, but more often than not marginal at best. I don't know about the community, but I would certainly understand if Naniwa had an issue with those problems.
It was HOW he executed it all that was intolerable, and the backlash was justifiable. Complaining about soundproofing in-game--followed by a rage quit, doesn't quite garner much respect. Neither should the subsequent posts on Twitter. HE made his own exit as ignominious as possible, and who are we to deny that from him? Professionalism doesn't just mean following the rules, it also implies a level of sportsmanship, a degree of ethics, and so forth.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Errr what is bad about the production of IEM? I think it is really great so far.
Apart from the players hearing the casters and the crowd? I dunno. But that's reason enough to be worried.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
I would've booed and I am not from poland. He behaved bad towards the tourney, his opponent and the crowd. That is justification enough for me.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Errr what is bad about the production of IEM? I think it is really great so far.
Apart from the players hearing the casters and the crowd? I dunno. But that's reason enough to be worried.
Sound proofing is almost impossible to do(completely) unless you pay for the real sound proof booths which are super expensive. The only other reasonable thing to do is have the players in other rooms which can ruin the atmosphere of the tournament. also gom had the same issues so i'm not sure why you're singling out poland.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
France, and i support the Polish crowd against the swedish child.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
This guys above are soo inteligent. So much wisdom in thier words. Yeah just because there is an event in any particular country let`s just dis the home country and asume that the technical equipment that traveled through many continents isn`t the same in all of them, and lets just asume that the home country of event takes ALLL TECHNICAL maintenaice!!! THOSE are the same soundproof booths that were in Sao Paulo, Cologne, New York!!! GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOYR ASSS!!!
Sure yeah!!! Let`s just blame all the people in particular country when a fanbois player acts like an unmature child with an ego and emotonial levels of a chimpanzee!!!
To TL moders, I`m very glad that you let in sooooooooo much nationality attacks in this topic, poland this, poland that!! GG KUDOS!!!
On March 15 2014 21:08 arkedos wrote: Show nested quote +
Errr what is bad about the production of IEM? I think it is really great so far.
On March 15 2014 21:14 djannih wrote: Apart from the players hearing the casters and the crowd? I dunno. But that's reason enough to be worried.
3 - Naniwa if anyone has no moral right to complain When playing vs Flash on MLG - Naniwa clearly had no shame in his body turning his scouting probe around when the crowd reacted to him missing Flashs proxy barracks.
aaah fuck im just a bad poster.....gonna watch now this awesome iem tourney
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
I would've booed and I am not from poland. He behaved bad towards the tourney, his opponent and the crowd. That is justification enough for me.
You got to love winning more than you hate losing. And judging from how much NaNi hates losing there's no wonder he's the best foreigner (or was). Anything else is irrelevant. Booing like a bunch of enviromentally damaged alcoholics just reinforces the caricature of post-Sovjet countrymen being wrongfully brought up savages. It's saddening to see.
3 - Naniwa if anyone has no moral right to complain When playing vs Flash on MLG - Naniwa clearly had no shame in his body turning his scouting probe around when the crowd reacted to him missing Flashs proxy barracks. http://youtu.be/yxSIqAXIqnw?t=2m10s
aaah fuck im just a bad poster.....gonna watch now this awesome iem tourney
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Errr what is bad about the production of IEM? I think it is really great so far.
Apart from the players hearing the casters and the crowd? I dunno. But that's reason enough to be worried.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
No one would have booed if he had just played his games and lost 0-3. That was what everyone would have expected, but tweeting things like "Ololol I play LoL, fu SC 2" and then leaving after one game is just a huge middle-finger to everyone in the scene.
On March 15 2014 21:19 Iduakil wrote: To TL moders, I`m very glad that you let in sooooooooo much nationality attacks in this topic, poland this, poland that!! GG KUDOS!!!
While I agree with you, that the mistakes of the crowd should'nt be blamed on their nationality, which likely has'nt anything to do with it, you are not the one to talk about to less mod action after a post like this:
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Naniwa`s twitter.......
Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
Also:
On March 15 2014 20:44 horvaa wrote: Im not racist, but that would never happen in Dreamhack or at an MLG.
DH crowd booed Socke at one time just for eliminating ThorZaIN. There are people like this everywhere.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
I would've booed and I am not from poland. He behaved bad towards the tourney, his opponent and the crowd. That is justification enough for me.
You got to love winning more than you hate losing. And judging from how much NaNi hates losing there's no wonder he's the best foreigner (or was). Anything else is irrelevant. Booing like a bunch of enviromentally damaged alcoholics just reinforces the caricature of post-Sovjet countrymen being wrongfully brought up savages. It's saddening to see.
Dude I`m just lost of words.... the lack of any thought.... enjoy your ban!!!! Bye bye
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
I would've booed and I am not from poland. He behaved bad towards the tourney, his opponent and the crowd. That is justification enough for me.
You got to love winning more than you hate losing. And judging from how much NaNi hates losing there's no wonder he's the best foreigner (or was). Anything else is irrelevant. Booing like a bunch of enviromentally damaged alcoholics just reinforces the caricature of post-Sovjet countrymen being wrongfully brought up savages. It's saddening to see.
They booe a fucking child who refuse to play because he thinks is a star. And you should stop to insult polish, bastard.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
Actually, that's exactly how it's supposed to be done. They could've thrown stuff i suppose, but i'd rather stick with booing. Well deserved booing.
One thing that is in the back of my head: if polt would've forfeited, the crowd would not have boo'd so hard/at all, i'm pretty convinced.
That's what you get for being a bm player. People still know what an anti-sportsman he is. What you wanna do, pat the "stronk dude who is so manly he can't even shake hands" on his head and tell him he's a good boy?
On March 15 2014 20:44 horvaa wrote: Im not racist, but that would never happen in Dreamhack or at an MLG.
Did u ride 800 km to come and see Naniwa quitting ? I hope u didn't waste ur time and money to see on live stage this situation. Sorry, but my friends get really disappointing after this. They lost time and money to see only foreign, better if they stay at home and watched it on live stream.
On March 15 2014 21:19 Iduakil wrote: To TL moders, I`m very glad that you let in sooooooooo much nationality attacks in this topic, poland this, poland that!! GG KUDOS!!!
While I agree with you, that the mistakes of the crowd should'nt be blamed on their nationality, which likely has'nt anything to do with it, you are not the one to talk about to less mod action after a post like this:
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Naniwa`s twitter.......
Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
True, I might have overreacted but the words of Naniwa in his last tweet .... I believe I wouldn`t come up with any other worst way to go on his retirement/vacation after such situation. That`s not how you treat SC2 fans, the whole community! You just don`t!
On March 15 2014 20:44 horvaa wrote: And what is up with the disrespectful crowd, a player dont wanna play, we know some of the reasons but not the whole picture. And they boo him out.
Im not racist, but that would never happen in Dreamhack or at an MLG.
Pretty sure Naniwa actually got boo'd at during MLG Providence after he called out Nestea for being overrated at the short event right before (MLG Global Invitational, the event Naniwa won). 90% sure of this.
Also have this feeling he got boo'd at, at the whole Polt incident when he refused to shake hands and stuff after Polt did some trashtalk. Then Polt wanted to make up for it.
And then lastly at Dreamhack Stockholm the Swedish crowd left DURING the winner interview with Leenock. Yes a lot were disappointed but leaving like they did was pretty bad mannered when they could have waited a few minutes. I was in that crowd so idk. Don't pretend Swedish crowds are something we aren't.
In the end, saying something like: "I'm not racist but xyz" will make you racist.
On March 15 2014 20:44 horvaa wrote: And what is up with the disrespectful crowd, a player dont wanna play, we know some of the reasons but not the whole picture. And they boo him out.
Im not racist, but that would never happen in Dreamhack or at an MLG.
Pretty sure Naniwa actually got boo'd at during MLG Providence after he called out Nestea for being overrated at the short event right before (MLG Global Invitational, the event Naniwa won). 90% sure of this.
Also have this feeling he got boo'd at, at the whole Polt incident when he refused to shake hands and stuff after Polt did some trashtalk. Then Polt wanted to make up for it.
And then lastly at Dreamhack Stockholm the Swedish crowd left DURING the winner interview with Leenock. Yes a lot were disappointed but leaving like they did was pretty bad mannered when they could have waited a few minutes. I was in that crowd so idk. Don't pretend Swedish crowds are something we aren't.
In the end, saying something like: "I'm not racist but xyz" will make you racist.
I agree, there's a lot of subtle rascism here in Sweden.
On March 15 2014 20:44 horvaa wrote: And what is up with the disrespectful crowd, a player dont wanna play, we know some of the reasons but not the whole picture. And they boo him out.
Im not racist, but that would never happen in Dreamhack or at an MLG.
Pretty sure Naniwa actually got boo'd at during MLG Providence after he called out Nestea for being overrated at the short event right before (MLG Global Invitational, the event Naniwa won). 90% sure of this.
Also have this feeling he got boo'd at, at the whole Polt incident when he refused to shake hands and stuff after Polt did some trashtalk. Then Polt wanted to make up for it.
And then lastly at Dreamhack Stockholm the Swedish crowd left DURING the winner interview with Leenock. Yes a lot were disappointed but leaving like they did was pretty bad mannered when they could have waited a few minutes. I was in that crowd so idk. Don't pretend Swedish crowds are something we aren't.
In the end, saying something like: "I'm not racist but xyz" will make you racist.
I agree, there's a lot of subtle rascism here in Sweden.
What a friend of mine says/shows is kinda not what i'd call subtle, especially when it comes to finns. ;P
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
I would've booed and I am not from poland. He behaved bad towards the tourney, his opponent and the crowd. That is justification enough for me.
You got to love winning more than you hate losing. And judging from how much NaNi hates losing there's no wonder he's the best foreigner (or was). Anything else is irrelevant. Booing like a bunch of enviromentally damaged alcoholics just reinforces the caricature of post-Sovjet countrymen being wrongfully brought up savages. It's saddening to see.
Dude I`m just lost of words.... the lack of any thought.... enjoy your ban!!!! Bye bye
Well, I'm proving a point.
The crowd excuse their shitty behaviour with NaNi being BM when he's really jsut a fierce competitor. Plz enlighten me as to how the crowd acting like shitheads is justified just because NaNi sometimes shows his emotions because he really makes a big deal out of his esporting career?
On March 15 2014 20:44 horvaa wrote: And what is up with the disrespectful crowd, a player dont wanna play, we know some of the reasons but not the whole picture. And they boo him out.
Im not racist, but that would never happen in Dreamhack or at an MLG.
Pretty sure Naniwa actually got boo'd at during MLG Providence after he called out Nestea for being overrated at the short event right before (MLG Global Invitational, the event Naniwa won). 90% sure of this.
Also have this feeling he got boo'd at, at the whole Polt incident when he refused to shake hands and stuff after Polt did some trashtalk. Then Polt wanted to make up for it.
And then lastly at Dreamhack Stockholm the Swedish crowd left DURING the winner interview with Leenock. Yes a lot were disappointed but leaving like they did was pretty bad mannered when they could have waited a few minutes. I was in that crowd so idk. Don't pretend Swedish crowds are something we aren't.
In the end, saying something like: "I'm not racist but xyz" will make you racist.
I agree, there's a lot of subtle rascism here in Sweden.
What a friend of mine says/shows is kinda not what i'd call subtle, especially when it comes to finns. ;P
The finns is an entirely different matter ;D What I mean is that it is rarely spoken out loud, but it is there like that Dreamhack thing.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
I would've booed and I am not from poland. He behaved bad towards the tourney, his opponent and the crowd. That is justification enough for me.
You got to love winning more than you hate losing. And judging from how much NaNi hates losing there's no wonder he's the best foreigner (or was). Anything else is irrelevant. Booing like a bunch of enviromentally damaged alcoholics just reinforces the caricature of post-Sovjet countrymen being wrongfully brought up savages. It's saddening to see.
Dude I`m just lost of words.... the lack of any thought.... enjoy your ban!!!! Bye bye
Well, I'm proving a point.
The crowd excuse their shitty behaviour with NaNi being BM when he's really jsut a fierce competitor. Plz enlighten me as to how the crowd acting like shitheads is justified just because NaNi sometimes shows his emotions because he really makes a big deal out of his esporting career?
1rst Naniwa fanboy. They boo your idol and you hate them for that.... stupid.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
I would've booed and I am not from poland. He behaved bad towards the tourney, his opponent and the crowd. That is justification enough for me.
You got to love winning more than you hate losing. And judging from how much NaNi hates losing there's no wonder he's the best foreigner (or was). Anything else is irrelevant. Booing like a bunch of enviromentally damaged alcoholics just reinforces the caricature of post-Sovjet countrymen being wrongfully brought up savages. It's saddening to see.
User was warned for this post
like environmentally damaged alchoholics? Just what does that even mean? haha If at all possible, just report this poster for all his five posts.
You followed up some circular reasoning with a, "Anything else is irrelevant." Let me tell you that the only entertaining thing about that series was the drama that his actions left behind. Gamers are paid for the entertainment, professionalism and what their fanbase provide, how is that irrelevant to what he did as opposed to playing under the same conditions (albeit in his case disadvantaged, arguably)? He wasn't furthering anything, it was entirely selfish for everyone to see.
You expect the crowd to sit quietly and celebrate him while drinking tea? News flash: we're not all middle-class players or consumers, and what time others devoted to getting to the venue, we spend far less of in coming online to watch from a distance. This is all to watch some games of starcraft and be around friends. If you're talking what is damaging to the game, to the community, or even to its people... just think before you talk about a crowd of people being chmpanzees. It's like you've never been to a live event or anything.
It's disgusting how haters come out of the woodwork during this incident and basically say "see? this justifies all my earlier hate", such as Stephano's tweet.
Just to be clear, I'm not defending any of naniwa's actions. I'm pretty baffled why he came to Poland in the first place.
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
I would've booed and I am not from poland. He behaved bad towards the tourney, his opponent and the crowd. That is justification enough for me.
You got to love winning more than you hate losing. And judging from how much NaNi hates losing there's no wonder he's the best foreigner (or was). Anything else is irrelevant. Booing like a bunch of enviromentally damaged alcoholics just reinforces the caricature of post-Sovjet countrymen being wrongfully brought up savages. It's saddening to see.
Dude I`m just lost of words.... the lack of any thought.... enjoy your ban!!!! Bye bye
Well, I'm proving a point.
The crowd excuse their shitty behaviour with NaNi being BM when he's really jsut a fierce competitor. Plz enlighten me as to how the crowd acting like shitheads is justified just because NaNi sometimes shows his emotions because he really makes a big deal out of his esporting career?
To put it really bluntly, progamers exist to entertain us. It is the viewership that attracts sponsors who are willing to pay for players' equipment, salaries, flight tickets, and prize money. If they fail to entertain their viewers they will be critised. Naniwa has been acting like a dick for a long time now but people put up with it because he posted results. As soon as he stopped posting results though, people got sick of his antics.
Noone minds a player showing emotion, but if vitriolic and snide comments towards other players and the community are the only thing a player is capable of, people will get tired of that person really quickly.
Naniwa isn't the only person who takes his esports career seriously. Practically all the players at IEM Katowice do. Naniwa is just the only one that consistently behaves unprofessionaly (apart from Idra, but he left the scene a few months ago, in a similarly childish fashion as Naniwa did).
On March 15 2014 20:09 iloveav wrote: The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
I would've booed and I am not from poland. He behaved bad towards the tourney, his opponent and the crowd. That is justification enough for me.
You got to love winning more than you hate losing. And judging from how much NaNi hates losing there's no wonder he's the best foreigner (or was). Anything else is irrelevant. Booing like a bunch of enviromentally damaged alcoholics just reinforces the caricature of post-Sovjet countrymen being wrongfully brought up savages. It's saddening to see.
Dude I`m just lost of words.... the lack of any thought.... enjoy your ban!!!! Bye bye
Well, I'm proving a point.
The crowd excuse their shitty behaviour with NaNi being BM when he's really jsut a fierce competitor. Plz enlighten me as to how the crowd acting like shitheads is justified just because NaNi sometimes shows his emotions because he really makes a big deal out of his esporting career?
To put it really bluntly, progamers exist to entertain us. It is the viewership that attracts sponsors who are willing to pay for players' equipment, salaries, flight tickets, and prize money. If they fail to entertain their viewers they will be critised. Naniwa has been acting like a dick for a long time now but people put up with it because he posted results. As soon as he stopped posting results though, people got sick of his antics.
Noone minds a player showing emotion, but if vitriolic and snide comments towards other players and the community are the only thing a player is capable of, people will get tired of that person really quickly.
Naniwa isn't the only person who takes his esports career seriously. Practically all the players at IEM Katowice do. Naniwa is just the only one that consistently behaves unprofessionaly (apart from Idra, but he left the scene a few months ago, in a similarly childish fashion as Naniwa did).
Wrong, progamers do not exist to entertain us. Naniwa, a progamer does not exist to entertain us. Nor do any other progamer. He is his own person with his own hopes and dreams and beliefs and free will, as are all of us. Progaming is job to entertain, there is a difference.
On March 15 2014 21:23 JoeCool wrote:No one would have booed
I would have booed if I was there anyway ; ) Dislike the guy and got no respect since he said "chill get out". Never cheered for him since then and never wished him anything good. Time after time he have just proved I got my opinion right, yesterday wasn't the exception ; )
My proving point is that just because someones acting like an ass doesn't justify you acting like an ass. In other words just because I think the crowd was over the line when NaNi was walking out doesn't justify me calling the crowd what I just did.
What did I do? I acted like an asshole with the excuse that I thought someone else was acting like an asshole.
Another persons bad actions never justifies your own bad actions as the actions in both instances are just that, bad. I think the crowd was acting childish and I understand why NaNi went out the way he did; because he felt the loss was unjust and that the conditions were sub par.
But under any circumstances it's never ok to say what I said just because I think my oppinion is what matters.
On March 15 2014 22:20 djannih wrote: My proving point is that just because someones acting like an ass doesn't justify you acting like an ass. In other words just because I think the crowd was over the line when NaNi was walking out doesn't justify me calling the crowd what I just did.
What did I do? I acted like an asshole with the excuse that I thought someone else was acting like an asshole.
Another persons bad actions never justifies your own bad actions as the actions in both instances are just that, bad. I think the crowd was acting childish and I understand why NaNi went out the way he did; because he felt the loss was unjust and that the conditions were sub par.
But under any circumstances it's never ok to say what I said just because I think my oppinion is what matters.
But then how do we express obvious discontent over such a series of events that transpired? Surely you're not asking us to take it for what it was worth and leave. That'd be the equivalent of ignorance. His professionalism throughout what happened was overall poor, and we called him out on it (some more severely than others, admittedly). What, do you want the crowd to walk up to him and explain why he shouldn't have tweeted that the community was garbage, why he should stay for the duration of the series, why he should refrain from making an implicitly pointed remark through his soundproofing complaint?
Booing isn't being an ass; hell, I didn't even realize it was booing until the casters said it was (sounded like some kind of weird cheer to me). On the contrary, booing is probably the lowest on the scale of bad things to denounce a disliked person,; giving the bird, yelling "you suck" or so on would have surely been worse. Here, booing essentially translates to "you failed to provide proper entertainment to us". And though Naniwa surely doesn't owe us a lick, those who purchased tickets expected entertainment (what, do you buy tickets for entertainment so you can finish your homework assignment?), and had the right to express discontent when there was none. If the crowd really wanted Naniwa on a pike, there were certainly more dreadful things they could have done (see: the LR thread). Booing is rarely a strike at someone; it is often feedback to poor performance (in terms of sports, at least).
In the Starcraft scene in particular, I rarely hear booing of any kind. Even when rivalries come to a head, more often than not their games made up for whatever mean-spirited banter that may have transpired. The fans go home and have a nice pint over it. So when the crowd boos, and they boo like this, it's actually a very significant message to the Starcraft scene. To be insulted over the crowd's behavior that night (day, I suppose) would be ignorant to sports in general.
I dont really care about the drama but it was pretty cool to see something interesting go down either then some really good games. The interview with cjHero after beating San.. Hero stated that "in the first game he was really nervous but after ""hearing"" the crowd cheer his name, he was ok".. maybe not in those exact words but thats what he said. I didnt pay attention if he took off the headphones that blocks sound but thought it should be mentioned.
I am not defending nor attacking anyone here.. but this may be something
On March 15 2014 22:25 NxSs wrote: Booing isn't acting like a douche, it's expressing your opinion about the actions Naniwa did. Booing happens all the time in sportevents.
Good luck finding a Snooker tournament with booing in it. We should'nt aim to develop a fan culture of big team-sports, we could aim for something better. If the tone coming from the general community gets harsher, that leads to harsher behaviour from the players, which leads to more community backlash etcetc. Do you think Nani would have used his twitter, the way he did if he was'nt constantly provoked? This all will just lead to everyone being more angry then it is neccesary.
On March 15 2014 22:25 NxSs wrote: Booing isn't acting like a douche, it's expressing your opinion about the actions Naniwa did. Booing happens all the time in sportevents.
Good luck finding a Snooker tournament with booing in it. We should'nt aim to develop a fan culture of big team-sports, we could aim for something better. If the tone coming from the general community gets harsher, that leads to harsher behaviour from the players, which leads to more community backlash etcetc. Do you think Nani would have used his twitter, the way he did if he was'nt constantly provoked? This all will just lead to everyone being more angry then it is neccesary.
Action .. reaction.. Do you think this shitstorm would have happened if he didn't forfeit like that ? If it's deserved or not doesn't matter. Naniwa should have been smarter , everyone knew this would turn against him, there was no other way this could have gone.
On March 15 2014 21:51 MagnuMizer wrote: wow being booed at on stage on your birthday... what a way to go
oh wow, his birthday?
jaeh but then dont act like an asshole on your birthday ... the people would have cheered on him evne if he did 0-3 (if he not offgate every game but at least try it) they would shout his name because its him and thats cool on ur birthday even if you lose
but if you act like this ... sry then it is deserved then better dont come, make party with your friends and let hasu play the tour
On March 15 2014 22:25 NxSs wrote: Booing isn't acting like a douche, it's expressing your opinion about the actions Naniwa did. Booing happens all the time in sportevents.
Good luck finding a Snooker tournament with booing in it. We should'nt aim to develop a fan culture of big team-sports, we could aim for something better. If the tone coming from the general community gets harsher, that leads to harsher behaviour from the players, which leads to more community backlash etcetc. Do you think Nani would have used his twitter, the way he did if he was'nt constantly provoked? This all will just lead to everyone being more angry then it is neccesary.
first of all calling snooker an sport tournament can only be done by british guys LOL ^^ but i am sure if someone enters an importent snooker tournament and then just kick 1 ball say OH THIS BALL IS NOT ROUND ENOUGH and leave ... sry i am sure there are boos ...
i liked the boos rly much, showing the players they cant act like assholes (its like everywhere, if you make shit you get boos, if you loose horrible, people still cheer for you)
your forget what katowice did last time ... sheering the name of the looser for 10 minutes ... this is an AMAZING publicum but they dont like to get shit on
On March 15 2014 22:25 NxSs wrote: Booing isn't acting like a douche, it's expressing your opinion about the actions Naniwa did. Booing happens all the time in sportevents.
Good luck finding a Snooker tournament with booing in it. We shouldn't aim to develop a fan culture of big team-sports, we could aim for something better. If the tone coming from the general community gets harsher, that leads to harsher behavior from the players, which leads to more community backlash etc etc. Do you think Nani would have used his twitter, the way he did if he wasn't constantly provoked? This all will just lead to everyone being more angry then it is neccesary.
"Mark Williams faced the music after his foul-mouthed tirade against the Crucible when he was booed by hundreds of fans before his match against Liu Chuang.
The 37-year-old Welshman appeared chastened by the crowd's reaction as he walked into the arena for his first-round clash at the World Snooker Championship.
Williams, the world champion in 2000 and 2003, condemned the Sheffield theatre as a "shxt hole" in a Twitter tirade on the eve of the tournament last Friday, for which he is set to be fined. Williams said he hoped the tournament would soon move to China."
Everyone should realize that Nani's twitter comment calling the community disgusting was after the majority of negative comments in this thread. His comment makes sense coming from someone who is new to sc2, but at this point he should anticipate the backlash to his actions. I'm just hoping he apologizes to the community and we can close this drama.
On March 15 2014 22:20 djannih wrote: My proving point is that just because someones acting like an ass doesn't justify you acting like an ass. In other words just because I think the crowd was over the line when NaNi was walking out doesn't justify me calling the crowd what I just did.
What did I do? I acted like an asshole with the excuse that I thought someone else was acting like an asshole.
Another persons bad actions never justifies your own bad actions as the actions in both instances are just that, bad. I think the crowd was acting childish and I understand why NaNi went out the way he did; because he felt the loss was unjust and that the conditions were sub par.
But under any circumstances it's never ok to say what I said just because I think my oppinion is what matters.
when you like a player's action, you cheer
when you hate a player's action, you boo
when naniwa showed poor sportsmanship, the crowd hated his action and voiced their displeasure
On March 15 2014 01:29 Kosak wrote: adam apicella is right about every of these aspects regarding soundproof, its a damn shame and a huge disgrace for the whole "yeah great crowd"
That's right. No need for doctors. As long as you sincerely believe it, it's okay to call people autistic online.
So? You think me saying that his behaviour is aspergerlike is worse than calling him a douchebag that deserves all the hate he gets?
I speak as I find. I am not demeaning people with autism. What I am saying is that I find it likely that he does have some sort of issue. That doesn't mean that he is a bad person.
On March 15 2014 22:25 NxSs wrote: Booing isn't acting like a douche, it's expressing your opinion about the actions Naniwa did. Booing happens all the time in sportevents.
Good luck finding a Snooker tournament with booing in it. We shouldn't aim to develop a fan culture of big team-sports, we could aim for something better. If the tone coming from the general community gets harsher, that leads to harsher behavior from the players, which leads to more community backlash etc etc. Do you think Nani would have used his twitter, the way he did if he wasn't constantly provoked? This all will just lead to everyone being more angry then it is neccesary.
"Mark Williams faced the music after his foul-mouthed tirade against the Crucible when he was booed by hundreds of fans before his match against Liu Chuang.
The 37-year-old Welshman appeared chastened by the crowd's reaction as he walked into the arena for his first-round clash at the World Snooker Championship.
Williams, the world champion in 2000 and 2003, condemned the Sheffield theatre as a "shxt hole" in a Twitter tirade on the eve of the tournament last Friday, for which he is set to be fined. Williams said he hoped the tournament would soon move to China."
Well played sir, you won this part of the battle.
On March 15 2014 23:03 Drake wrote: first of all calling snooker an sport tournament can only be done by british guys LOL ^^
On March 15 2014 22:20 djannih wrote: My proving point is that just because someones acting like an ass doesn't justify you acting like an ass. In other words just because I think the crowd was over the line when NaNi was walking out doesn't justify me calling the crowd what I just did.
What did I do? I acted like an asshole with the excuse that I thought someone else was acting like an asshole.
Another persons bad actions never justifies your own bad actions as the actions in both instances are just that, bad. I think the crowd was acting childish and I understand why NaNi went out the way he did; because he felt the loss was unjust and that the conditions were sub par.
But under any circumstances it's never ok to say what I said just because I think my oppinion is what matters.
But then how do we express obvious discontent over such a series of events that transpired? Surely you're not asking us to take it for what it was worth and leave. That'd be the equivalent of ignorance. His professionalism throughout what happened was overall poor, and we called him out on it (some more severely than others, admittedly). What, do you want the crowd to walk up to him and explain why he shouldn't have tweeted that the community was garbage, why he should stay for the duration of the series, why he should refrain from making an implicitly pointed remark through his soundproofing complaint?
Booing isn't being an ass; hell, I didn't even realize it was booing until the casters said it was (sounded like some kind of weird cheer to me). On the contrary, booing is probably the lowest on the scale of bad things to denounce a disliked person,; giving the bird, yelling "you suck" or so on would have surely been worse. Here, booing essentially translates to "you failed to provide proper entertainment to us". And though Naniwa surely doesn't owe us a lick, those who purchased tickets expected entertainment (what, do you buy tickets for entertainment so you can finish your homework assignment?), and had the right to express discontent when there was none. If the crowd really wanted Naniwa on a pike, there were certainly more dreadful things they could have done (see: the LR thread). Booing is rarely a strike at someone; it is often feedback to poor performance (in terms of sports, at least).
In the Starcraft scene in particular, I rarely hear booing of any kind. Even when rivalries come to a head, more often than not their games made up for whatever mean-spirited banter that may have transpired. The fans go home and have a nice pint over it. So when the crowd boos, and they boo like this, it's actually a very significant message to the Starcraft scene. To be insulted over the crowd's behavior that night (day, I suppose) would be ignorant to sports in general.
Well, with case of NaNi he's an easy target because of his MO. I do, too, think that he's been out of line a couple of times. With that said, this was NOT one of them.
Hell, if you can hear the casters, let alone the crowd, something is wrong. And it COMPLETELY ruined his tactic. Whether or not Polt would've scouted it anyway, we will never know. But I for one find nothing weird about how upset NaNi was. But NaNi being NaNi everyone immediately starts beating on him and I don't think he deserved that.
We need characters to make the scene interesting and NaNi was one of them. Even though he acted like an ass now and then. Ofcourse the the crowd must make their oppinion known but that was no regular booing. That was borderline bullying of a person the crowd had already made up their minds of. I don't like it. That's not what esports is about.
On March 15 2014 22:25 NxSs wrote: Booing isn't acting like a douche, it's expressing your opinion about the actions Naniwa did. Booing happens all the time in sportevents.
Good luck finding a Snooker tournament with booing in it. We shouldn't aim to develop a fan culture of big team-sports, we could aim for something better. If the tone coming from the general community gets harsher, that leads to harsher behavior from the players, which leads to more community backlash etc etc. Do you think Nani would have used his twitter, the way he did if he wasn't constantly provoked? This all will just lead to everyone being more angry then it is neccesary.
"Mark Williams faced the music after his foul-mouthed tirade against the Crucible when he was booed by hundreds of fans before his match against Liu Chuang.
The 37-year-old Welshman appeared chastened by the crowd's reaction as he walked into the arena for his first-round clash at the World Snooker Championship.
Williams, the world champion in 2000 and 2003, condemned the Sheffield theatre as a "shxt hole" in a Twitter tirade on the eve of the tournament last Friday, for which he is set to be fined. Williams said he hoped the tournament would soon move to China."
ROFL.
Well played.
I'm just so disappointed. Being a diehard Naniwa fan for so long I just feel bit betrayed.
From what he said on Twitter, Polt said he could also hear the crowd/casters. Not that he wouldn't have scouted anyway (he might have since Nani cheesed a lot last time he played) but it was an issue.
I still think he should have played out the series.
If this incident doesn't prompt tournament organizers to take soundproof issue seriously, I don't know what would. Naniwa or not, it's disappointing that we have to talk about soundproof booths in 2014.
Tournament organizers failed to provide proper enviroment for athletes to compete. One of athletes left the tournament as a note of protest. By no means he had to but he chose to which is completely justifiable. If anyone to blame in this situation its organizers. Period.
On March 15 2014 22:20 djannih wrote: My proving point is that just because someones acting like an ass doesn't justify you acting like an ass. In other words just because I think the crowd was over the line when NaNi was walking out doesn't justify me calling the crowd what I just did.
What did I do? I acted like an asshole with the excuse that I thought someone else was acting like an asshole.
Another persons bad actions never justifies your own bad actions as the actions in both instances are just that, bad. I think the crowd was acting childish and I understand why NaNi went out the way he did; because he felt the loss was unjust and that the conditions were sub par.
But under any circumstances it's never ok to say what I said just because I think my oppinion is what matters.
But then how do we express obvious discontent over such a series of events that transpired? Surely you're not asking us to take it for what it was worth and leave. That'd be the equivalent of ignorance. His professionalism throughout what happened was overall poor, and we called him out on it (some more severely than others, admittedly). What, do you want the crowd to walk up to him and explain why he shouldn't have tweeted that the community was garbage, why he should stay for the duration of the series, why he should refrain from making an implicitly pointed remark through his soundproofing complaint?
Booing isn't being an ass; hell, I didn't even realize it was booing until the casters said it was (sounded like some kind of weird cheer to me). On the contrary, booing is probably the lowest on the scale of bad things to denounce a disliked person,; giving the bird, yelling "you suck" or so on would have surely been worse. Here, booing essentially translates to "you failed to provide proper entertainment to us". And though Naniwa surely doesn't owe us a lick, those who purchased tickets expected entertainment (what, do you buy tickets for entertainment so you can finish your homework assignment?), and had the right to express discontent when there was none. If the crowd really wanted Naniwa on a pike, there were certainly more dreadful things they could have done (see: the LR thread). Booing is rarely a strike at someone; it is often feedback to poor performance (in terms of sports, at least).
In the Starcraft scene in particular, I rarely hear booing of any kind. Even when rivalries come to a head, more often than not their games made up for whatever mean-spirited banter that may have transpired. The fans go home and have a nice pint over it. So when the crowd boos, and they boo like this, it's actually a very significant message to the Starcraft scene. To be insulted over the crowd's behavior that night (day, I suppose) would be ignorant to sports in general.
Well, with case of NaNi he's an easy target because of his MO. I do, too, think that he's been out of line a couple of times. With that said, this was NOT one of them.
Hell, if you can hear the casters, let alone the crowd, something is wrong. And it COMPLETELY ruined his tactic. Whether or not Polt would've scouted it anyway, we will never know. But I for one find nothing weird about how upset NaNi was. But NaNi being NaNi everyone immediately starts beating on him and I don't think he deserved that.
We need characters to make the scene interesting and NaNi was one of them. Even though he acted like an ass now and then. Ofcourse the the crowd must make their oppinion known but that was no regular booing. That was borderline bullying of a person the crowd had already made up their minds of. I don't like it. That's not what esports is about.
I have to disagree with all of this. The crowd booed Naniwa because he walked off when was down 0-1, not because he's Naniwa. Arguably most of that crowd actually wanted him to beat Polt. But if any other player forfeited and walked off after only one game of a bo5 series, that person would have been booed and heavily criticized on TL too.
Esports isn't based on characters, it is based on the best possible StarCraft. If you only care about watching nerd drama, then set up a pro wrestling league where you rig the games so that the table flipping foreigner anti-hero beats the faceless Koreans and claims the world championship. And gets screwed over when idra comes back and hits him with a chair.
In short, Naniwa got what he deserved by the crowd. Whether the online community is treating him unfairly is a separate question.
If only anyone else was complaining about soundproof issue too, but oh well nobody did. Polt's scouting pattern was supposedly pretty standard too. Booing was well deserved, apparently crowd doesn't owe Naniwa anything either. Good luck in your future endeavours.
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: Sorry dude, there would be players even without *the players", that because almost every fan is also a player.
Its like football, or any sport for that matter, all active players could retire or whatever this very day and you know what, tomorrow there would still be football. The "players" you talk about are like the top of an Iceberg, they are the "best" right now and the ones competing. But if they retired there would be a huge line of competetive players behind just waiting for their chance.
This is'nt about the top players, this is about players in general. The community treats players as their servants, not as their partners. The players play this game, because it is fun for them and because it is their job, not because they view themselves as entertainers of the community. Some do and that brings them extra-support, but as I said, that is extra. It is not a players duty, to do whatever he can to entertain the community. And yeah, ofc. there would be replacements, since there are a lot of players, but you can´t argue, that it is also in the communities intrest, that we can watch herO vs Hyun instead of avilo vs destiny.
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: A player like Naniwa kan compete like he does because he gets sponsored, he gets sponsored because companies believe that having him wear their logos and represent their company will increase their sales as good marketing. Bad publicity can still be good marketing but its a limit to that as well as demonstrated by the Idra case.
Any sponsor would be glad to exchange an investment that isn't paying off for one that would pay off. Naniwa doesn't owe us anything, we don't owe Naniwa anything. But you know what, Nani fucking owe Alliance for all the team has done for him and he also owes IEM. Naniwa said he doesn't give a fuck about SC2 at the moment but still accepts an invitation to poland, free hotel and a chance at winning 100k. He owes IEM that he sticks to his bloody side of the deal in accepting that spot and that would be that he plays. He could lose, he could not even try if he wanted to but he should have played those games, he owed that not to me, not to the community but to his team and to IEM.
I can see that being a valid point, and I would accept it, if IEM/Alliance would complain about it. But AFAIK, most people complaining in this thread are neither ESL officials nor Allinace staff members.
You say it yourself, they play the game... because its their job? You say the community treats players like their servants, I strongly disagree with that. Playing the game is their job, how did Naniwa do his job? I'm not saying im a customer in this instance or whatever. From your perspective he obviously didn't do his job. Whats wrong with being upset that someone totally ditches their work and at the same is a total douchebag in the way he does it.
If you are not going to work, calling in sick, quiting your job. There are many ways of doing it that is NOT going to work like normal, putting yourself in a public situation and then going "Meh I just don't feel like it today".
So if someone works at Wallmart and steals loads of money and food, we as a community (the public) is not allowed to be upset about it because we are not the officals at Wallmart? xD lol If someone murders someone we are are not allowed to be upset because it doesn't hurt "us"? >_> Seriously
Stealing something from Walmart is illegal. Killing someone is illegal. Forfitting a series is NOT illegal, it is within the players rights, so the comparism at this point is pretty unfitting. More fitting would be a 15-second 100m sprint or a Formula 1 driver crushing into a wall (Not Nelson Piquet jr, that man deserves community hate for what he did[Driving into a wall, so that his team partner could win, if you are'nt into F1]). If you ask me how Naniwa did his job yesterady, I could tell you, that it was'nt that good. And if you do your job not that good as a pro player, you don't get prize money. That is how it works in competition.
If you want a comparism to Wlamarkt stealing: This is what map hackers do. This is what stream cheaters do. Did Naniwa do any of that? No, he did'nt so please don't make it sound like he is a criminal.
Btw: Demuslim forfeited series mid series in the past. Did he get that much shit for it? Nony has forfeited series mid series in the past. Did he get that nuch shit for it? Stephano has forfeited a tournament between semi-final and final. Did he get that much shit for it?
I fully expect (major) tournament organizers to put a clause in the contract that obliges players to play-out a series and forbids them to forfeit matches, because this costs tournaments money. I hope that you understand that tournaments make money by displaying matches in between commercials, and being robbed of at least 2 (highly anticipated, considering he's the top-foreigner present) matches is potentially monetary loss for the tournament.
If I was a tournament organizers I would a fine in the contract, especially after what happened to TB. Players apparently do not understand that running off shows of really really bad on the tournament, and there should be consequences. Take note that he is a repeat offender - he has run-off a tournament before, and Rotti needed to talk to him for 20 minutes before he came back.
This isn't even about what Nani 'owes to the fans', it is a financial issue too - if NBA players run off the pitch in a hissy fit and refuse to play, you BET that there will be a hefty fine. I don't see how this should be different - IEM is throwing a lot of money at this with the objective of getting some of it back through advertisements, and shitting on a tournament like this has a direct negative influence.
Apparently players cannot be trusted to behave in a normal way - if I was a tournament organizer I would definitely put a clause heavily fining running-off mid-series in the contract.
To everyone shitting on Poland: get fucking real. Saying that this wouldn't have happened at a DH is too stupid for words, I would bet a significant sum that the audience's reaction would've been exactly the same everywhere around the globe - people were eagerly anticipating Nani to play, and were disappointed when he quit after playing 5 minutes. I wouldn't really call that value... Accusing people in other countries to be alcoholics while being from Scandinavia is not even borderline hypocritical btw...
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: Sorry dude, there would be players even without *the players", that because almost every fan is also a player.
Its like football, or any sport for that matter, all active players could retire or whatever this very day and you know what, tomorrow there would still be football. The "players" you talk about are like the top of an Iceberg, they are the "best" right now and the ones competing. But if they retired there would be a huge line of competetive players behind just waiting for their chance.
This is'nt about the top players, this is about players in general. The community treats players as their servants, not as their partners. The players play this game, because it is fun for them and because it is their job, not because they view themselves as entertainers of the community. Some do and that brings them extra-support, but as I said, that is extra. It is not a players duty, to do whatever he can to entertain the community. And yeah, ofc. there would be replacements, since there are a lot of players, but you can´t argue, that it is also in the communities intrest, that we can watch herO vs Hyun instead of avilo vs destiny.
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: A player like Naniwa kan compete like he does because he gets sponsored, he gets sponsored because companies believe that having him wear their logos and represent their company will increase their sales as good marketing. Bad publicity can still be good marketing but its a limit to that as well as demonstrated by the Idra case.
Any sponsor would be glad to exchange an investment that isn't paying off for one that would pay off. Naniwa doesn't owe us anything, we don't owe Naniwa anything. But you know what, Nani fucking owe Alliance for all the team has done for him and he also owes IEM. Naniwa said he doesn't give a fuck about SC2 at the moment but still accepts an invitation to poland, free hotel and a chance at winning 100k. He owes IEM that he sticks to his bloody side of the deal in accepting that spot and that would be that he plays. He could lose, he could not even try if he wanted to but he should have played those games, he owed that not to me, not to the community but to his team and to IEM.
I can see that being a valid point, and I would accept it, if IEM/Alliance would complain about it. But AFAIK, most people complaining in this thread are neither ESL officials nor Allinace staff members.
You say it yourself, they play the game... because its their job? You say the community treats players like their servants, I strongly disagree with that. Playing the game is their job, how did Naniwa do his job? I'm not saying im a customer in this instance or whatever. From your perspective he obviously didn't do his job. Whats wrong with being upset that someone totally ditches their work and at the same is a total douchebag in the way he does it.
If you are not going to work, calling in sick, quiting your job. There are many ways of doing it that is NOT going to work like normal, putting yourself in a public situation and then going "Meh I just don't feel like it today".
So if someone works at Wallmart and steals loads of money and food, we as a community (the public) is not allowed to be upset about it because we are not the officals at Wallmart? xD lol If someone murders someone we are are not allowed to be upset because it doesn't hurt "us"? >_> Seriously
Stealing something from Walmart is illegal. Killing someone is illegal. Forfitting a series is NOT illegal, it is within the players rights, so the comparism at this point is pretty unfitting. More fitting would be a 15-second 100m sprint or a Formula 1 driver crushing into a wall (Not Nelson Piquet jr, that man deserves community hate for what he did[Driving into a wall, so that his team partner could win, if you are'nt into F1]). If you ask me how Naniwa did his job yesterady, I could tell you, that it was'nt that good. And if you do your job not that good as a pro player, you don't get prize money. That is how it works in competition.
If you want a comparism to Wlamarkt stealing: This is what map hackers do. This is what stream cheaters do. Did Naniwa do any of that? No, he did'nt so please don't make it sound like he is a criminal.
Btw: Demuslim forfeited series mid series in the past. Did he get that much shit for it? Nony has forfeited series mid series in the past. Did he get that nuch shit for it? Stephano has forfeited a tournament between semi-final and final. Did he get that much shit for it?
I fully expect (major) tournament organizers to put a clause in the contract that obliges players to play-out a series and forbids them to forfeit matches, because this costs tournaments money. I hope that you understand that tournaments make money by displaying matches in between commercials, and being robbed of at least 2 (highly anticipated, considering he's the top-foreigner present) matches is potentially monetary loss for the tournament.
If I was a tournament organizers I would a fine in the contract, especially after what happened to TB. Players apparently do not understand that running off shows of really really bad on the tournament, and there should be consequences. Take note that he is a repeat offender - he has run-off a tournament before, and Rotti needed to talk to him for 20 minutes before he came back.
This isn't even about what Nani 'owes to the fans', it is a financial issue too - if NBA players run off the pitch in a hissy fit and refuse to play, you BET that there will be a hefty fine. I don't see how this should be different - IEM is throwing a lot of money at this with the objective of getting some of it back through advertisements, and shitting on a tournament like this has a direct negative influence.
Apparently players cannot be trusted to behave in a normal way - if I was a tournament organizer I would definitely put a clause heavily fining running-off mid-series in the contract.
To everyone shitting on Poland: get fucking real. Saying that this wouldn't have happened at a DH is too stupid for words, I would bet a significant sum that the audience's reaction would've been exactly the same everywhere around the globe - people were eagerly anticipating Nani to play, and were disappointed when he quit after playing 5 minutes. I wouldn't really call that value... Accusing people in other countries to be alcoholics while being from Scandinavia is not even borderline hypocritical btw...
I was just proving a point with that remark. I didn't mean to hurt anyones feelings with it and ofcourse there's no truth to it. I was merely pointing out the absurdity of acting like a dumbass and excusing that same behaviour with someone else acting like a dumbass. It's a circular argument and it's stupid.
I went over the line with my statement but the point was to raise some feelings and to then reply like I've done. I think it proved my point of me being wrong acting like an idiot just to get to "another idiot".
On March 15 2014 23:47 saddaromma wrote: Tournament organizers failed to provide proper enviroment for athletes to compete. One of athletes left the tournament as a note of protest. By no means he had to but he chose to which is completely justifiable. If anyone to blame in this situation its organizers. Period.
When none of the other competitors complained, how is this the fault of the organizers? Naniwa came in not wanting to play it out.
Organizers also cannot accommodate for every players needs. They will try to, but they can't. There are probably over 100 players at this event, I don't think that ESL has the manpower nor the time at the event to make sure every player is cozy and comfortable. Again, I reiterate that NONE of the other competitors complained about being able to hear the crowd.
On March 15 2014 23:47 saddaromma wrote: Tournament organizers failed to provide proper enviroment for athletes to compete. One of athletes left the tournament as a note of protest. By no means he had to but he chose to which is completely justifiable. If anyone to blame in this situation its organizers. Period.
When none of the competitors complained, how is this the fault of the organizers? Naniwa came in not wanting to play it out.
Organizers also cannot accommodate for every players needs. They will try to, but they can't. There are probably over 100 players at this event, I don't think that ESL has the manpower nor the time at the event to make sure every player is cozy and comfortable. Again, I reiterate that NONE of the other competitors complained about being able to hear the crowd.
San said he could hear the crowd, and Polt could hear the casters(according to NaNiwa)
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: Sorry dude, there would be players even without *the players", that because almost every fan is also a player.
Its like football, or any sport for that matter, all active players could retire or whatever this very day and you know what, tomorrow there would still be football. The "players" you talk about are like the top of an Iceberg, they are the "best" right now and the ones competing. But if they retired there would be a huge line of competetive players behind just waiting for their chance.
This is'nt about the top players, this is about players in general. The community treats players as their servants, not as their partners. The players play this game, because it is fun for them and because it is their job, not because they view themselves as entertainers of the community. Some do and that brings them extra-support, but as I said, that is extra. It is not a players duty, to do whatever he can to entertain the community. And yeah, ofc. there would be replacements, since there are a lot of players, but you can´t argue, that it is also in the communities intrest, that we can watch herO vs Hyun instead of avilo vs destiny.
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: A player like Naniwa kan compete like he does because he gets sponsored, he gets sponsored because companies believe that having him wear their logos and represent their company will increase their sales as good marketing. Bad publicity can still be good marketing but its a limit to that as well as demonstrated by the Idra case.
Any sponsor would be glad to exchange an investment that isn't paying off for one that would pay off. Naniwa doesn't owe us anything, we don't owe Naniwa anything. But you know what, Nani fucking owe Alliance for all the team has done for him and he also owes IEM. Naniwa said he doesn't give a fuck about SC2 at the moment but still accepts an invitation to poland, free hotel and a chance at winning 100k. He owes IEM that he sticks to his bloody side of the deal in accepting that spot and that would be that he plays. He could lose, he could not even try if he wanted to but he should have played those games, he owed that not to me, not to the community but to his team and to IEM.
I can see that being a valid point, and I would accept it, if IEM/Alliance would complain about it. But AFAIK, most people complaining in this thread are neither ESL officials nor Allinace staff members.
You say it yourself, they play the game... because its their job? You say the community treats players like their servants, I strongly disagree with that. Playing the game is their job, how did Naniwa do his job? I'm not saying im a customer in this instance or whatever. From your perspective he obviously didn't do his job. Whats wrong with being upset that someone totally ditches their work and at the same is a total douchebag in the way he does it.
If you are not going to work, calling in sick, quiting your job. There are many ways of doing it that is NOT going to work like normal, putting yourself in a public situation and then going "Meh I just don't feel like it today".
So if someone works at Wallmart and steals loads of money and food, we as a community (the public) is not allowed to be upset about it because we are not the officals at Wallmart? xD lol If someone murders someone we are are not allowed to be upset because it doesn't hurt "us"? >_> Seriously
Stealing something from Walmart is illegal. Killing someone is illegal. Forfitting a series is NOT illegal, it is within the players rights, so the comparism at this point is pretty unfitting. More fitting would be a 15-second 100m sprint or a Formula 1 driver crushing into a wall (Not Nelson Piquet jr, that man deserves community hate for what he did[Driving into a wall, so that his team partner could win, if you are'nt into F1]). If you ask me how Naniwa did his job yesterady, I could tell you, that it was'nt that good. And if you do your job not that good as a pro player, you don't get prize money. That is how it works in competition.
If you want a comparism to Wlamarkt stealing: This is what map hackers do. This is what stream cheaters do. Did Naniwa do any of that? No, he did'nt so please don't make it sound like he is a criminal.
Btw: Demuslim forfeited series mid series in the past. Did he get that much shit for it? Nony has forfeited series mid series in the past. Did he get that nuch shit for it? Stephano has forfeited a tournament between semi-final and final. Did he get that much shit for it?
I fully expect (major) tournament organizers to put a clause in the contract that obliges players to play-out a series and forbids them to forfeit matches, because this costs tournaments money. I hope that you understand that tournaments make money by displaying matches in between commercials, and being robbed of at least 2 (highly anticipated, considering he's the top-foreigner present) matches is potentially monetary loss for the tournament.
If I was a tournament organizers I would a fine in the contract, especially after what happened to TB. Players apparently do not understand that running off shows of really really bad on the tournament, and there should be consequences. Take note that he is a repeat offender - he has run-off a tournament before, and Rotti needed to talk to him for 20 minutes before he came back.
This isn't even about what Nani 'owes to the fans', it is a financial issue too - if NBA players run off the pitch in a hissy fit and refuse to play, you BET that there will be a hefty fine. I don't see how this should be different - IEM is throwing a lot of money at this with the objective of getting some of it back through advertisements, and shitting on a tournament like this has a direct negative influence.
Apparently players cannot be trusted to behave in a normal way - if I was a tournament organizer I would definitely put a clause heavily fining running-off mid-series in the contract.
I never said anything contradicting to that, I have posted before, that critizism from IEM regarding the situation is not the problem. The problem is, that it comes from entirely different directions and crosses the line of acceptable behaviour further than Naniwa did.
On March 15 2014 23:57 Galek wrote: If only anyone else was complaining about soundproof issue too, but oh well nobody did. Polt's scouting pattern was supposedly pretty standard too. Booing was well deserved, apparently crowd doesn't owe Naniwa anything either. Good luck in your future endeavours.
Don't say things like "but oh well nobody did" when you don't actually know if anyone did or not. It's also quite obvious that most of the Korean players aren't going to be as vocal about it as Naniwa was/usually is.
"very big sound ; i want open brackets stage" is one of his own reply's to the above tweet, explaining his feelings.
On March 15 2014 23:57 Galek wrote: If only anyone else was complaining about soundproof issue too, but oh well nobody did. Polt's scouting pattern was supposedly pretty standard too. Booing was well deserved, apparently crowd doesn't owe Naniwa anything either. Good luck in your future endeavours.
Don't say things like "but oh well nobody did" when you don't actually know if anyone did or not. It's also quite obvious that most of the Korean players aren't going to be as vocal about it as Naniwa was/usually is.
On March 16 2014 00:47 Broodwurst wrote: You can't really soundproof against a crowd of that size, booths do fuck all and noice-cancelling headphones only help so much.
You really can't, even if you perfectly soundproofed them, the damn thing would vibrate from all the noise. But they really need white noise generators to deal with commentators being heard.
On March 15 2014 23:57 Galek wrote: If only anyone else was complaining about soundproof issue too, but oh well nobody did. Polt's scouting pattern was supposedly pretty standard too. Booing was well deserved, apparently crowd doesn't owe Naniwa anything either. Good luck in your future endeavours.
Don't say things like "but oh well nobody did" when you don't actually know if anyone did or not. It's also quite obvious that most of the Korean players aren't going to be as vocal about it as Naniwa was/usually is.
You cant make an assumption based on only one tweet. There were plenty of tweets complaining about noice (Nani, polt, life, rogue, etc). This comunity justo hates Nani and will always stand against him. I found Taeja conduct much worse than Nani and he wasnt punished only because he won.
On March 15 2014 23:57 Galek wrote: If only anyone else was complaining about soundproof issue too, but oh well nobody did. Polt's scouting pattern was supposedly pretty standard too. Booing was well deserved, apparently crowd doesn't owe Naniwa anything either. Good luck in your future endeavours.
Don't say things like "but oh well nobody did" when you don't actually know if anyone did or not. It's also quite obvious that most of the Korean players aren't going to be as vocal about it as Naniwa was/usually is.
You cant make an assumption based on only one tweet. There were plenty of tweets complaining about noice (maní, polt, life, rogue, etc). This comunity justo hates Nani and will always stand against him. I found Taeja conduct much worse than Nani and he wasnt punished only because he won.
Yes, yes, but no. Taeja GG'd out of games he didnt want to play because he saw himself losing them. Granted Stardust was only a bit ahead, but playing out a game in that mindset is worse than just leaving and trying again.
On March 16 2014 00:47 Broodwurst wrote: You can't really soundproof against a crowd of that size, booths do fuck all and noice-cancelling headphones only help so much.
You really can't, even if you perfectly soundproofed them, the damn thing would vibrate from all the noise. But they really need white noise generators to deal with commentators being heard.
Players are some of the biggest opponents of white noise generators.
On March 15 2014 23:46 Orek wrote: If this incident doesn't prompt tournament organizers to take soundproof issue seriously, I don't know what would. Naniwa or not, it's disappointing that we have to talk about soundproof booths in 2014.
On March 16 2014 00:47 Broodwurst wrote: You can't really soundproof against a crowd of that size, booths do fuck all and noice-cancelling headphones only help so much.
You really can't, even if you perfectly soundproofed them, the damn thing would vibrate from all the noise. But they really need white noise generators to deal with commentators being heard.
Players are some of the biggest opponents of white noise generators.
Well if they oppose it then that is on them. But it would make it near impossible to hear anything distinguishable
Don't they use that at IEM or just play loud music in the headphones?
On March 16 2014 00:47 Broodwurst wrote: You can't really soundproof against a crowd of that size, booths do fuck all and noice-cancelling headphones only help so much.
You really can't, even if you perfectly soundproofed them, the damn thing would vibrate from all the noise. But they really need white noise generators to deal with commentators being heard.
Players are some of the biggest opponents of white noise generators.
Well if they oppose it then that is on them. But it would make it near impossible to hear anything distinguishable
On March 16 2014 00:47 Broodwurst wrote: You can't really soundproof against a crowd of that size, booths do fuck all and noice-cancelling headphones only help so much.
You really can't, even if you perfectly soundproofed them, the damn thing would vibrate from all the noise. But they really need white noise generators to deal with commentators being heard.
Players are some of the biggest opponents of white noise generators.
Well if they oppose it then that is on them. But it would make it near impossible to hear anything distinguishable
Wouldn''t that also have an effect on them hearing the game sound?
On March 16 2014 00:47 Broodwurst wrote: You can't really soundproof against a crowd of that size, booths do fuck all and noice-cancelling headphones only help so much.
You really can't, even if you perfectly soundproofed them, the damn thing would vibrate from all the noise. But they really need white noise generators to deal with commentators being heard.
Players are some of the biggest opponents of white noise generators.
Well if they oppose it then that is on them. But it would make it near impossible to hear anything distinguishable
Wouldn''t that also have an effect on them hearing the game sound?
I doubt it, the headphones are in your ears, the generators may interfere but I doubt it would be noticable
On March 15 2014 22:25 NxSs wrote: Booing isn't acting like a douche, it's expressing your opinion about the actions Naniwa did. Booing happens all the time in sportevents.
That's the thing. ie. football: If you dive and get a penalty people will boo. If you fake an injury to get another player sent off people will boo. If you brutally foul / injure another player and don't get send off people will boo. If you don't play the ball back after an injury people will boo.
Basically - if you show no sportsmanship people will boo. Actually booing is one of the nicer things you will experience. Football fans have way worse chants to show their disagreement with your actions (not even mentioning throwing things / laser pointers).
If you went to go see a football match and the team walked off half way through because they didn't like the referee booing would be the least of their worries.
Those are some very informative posts from SirScoots...it brings the whole thing under a new perspective. Really players should be told to expect imperfections and adjust their play based on it. Maybe the real issue is that this isn't communicated to the players very well.
Although also they could try to implement strict rules for the crowd; i.e. no cheering or booing while the game is in progress, like with tennis matches. Not sure if that would work or whether you could really control fans of a certain player from shouting when something important is happening (cheese). So yeah probably not .
"NaNiWa is a miserable crybaby, it wasn't the first time he showed his lack of selfcontrol and sportsmanship. He's a narcissistic child, who doesn't think about anyone else than himself. I'm glad he's gone"
Random Swedish Poster "oooh NaNiWa never forget!! He speaks up his mind, so cool!!"
On March 15 2014 22:25 NxSs wrote: Booing isn't acting like a douche, it's expressing your opinion about the actions Naniwa did. Booing happens all the time in sportevents.
That's the thing. ie. football: If you dive and get a penalty people will boo. If you fake an injury to get another player sent off people will boo. If you brutally foul / injure another player and don't get send off people will boo. If you don't play the ball back after an injury people will boo.
Basically - if you show no sportsmanship people will boo. Actually booing is one of the nicer things you will experience. Football fans have way worse chants to show their disagreement with your actions (not even mentioning throwing things / laser pointers).
In football people start booing, when the other team has the ball at times. We as a community/possible audience should distance ourselfs from football audiences as far as we can. And people blinding players with laser-pointers are not disagreeing with the players actions, they are causing actual injuries to the players and should at least be fined and banned from all stadiums.
Naniwa is a complete joke of a competitor. The issue isn't sound proofing, the issue is him himself. You don't see any of the Korean players storming off the stage like a raging child. For all the praise Nani got for his win-or-nothing attitude and dedication to being the best, he sure has a weak backbone. This goes to show hes never had it in him to be a true champion. I did find it hilarious how he kept tweeting the "xD" face... sure sign that hes raging.
You don't go saying how "you haven't played starcraft in weeks" try to cheese your way to a win against a professional player, and then ragequit like a scrub saying it was the lack of soundproofing that caused you to lose.
When he grows up, he'll look back on this moment and regret it.
On March 16 2014 01:40 sagefreke wrote: You don't go saying how "you haven't played starcraft in weeks" try to cheese your way to a win against a professional player, and then ragequit like a scrub saying it was the lack of soundproofing that caused you to lose.
When he grows up, he'll look back on this moment and regret it.
wow dude it was his birthday. His BIRTHDAY... He was supposed to get stuff for free
On March 16 2014 01:23 veilchen wrote: Page 1 - 40:
Posters from Argentina - Luxembourg
"NaNiWa is a miserable crybaby, it wasn't the first time he showed his lack of selfcontrol and sportsmanship. He's a narcissistic child, who doesn't think about anyone else than himself. I'm glad he's gone"
Random Swedish Poster "oooh NaNiWa never forget!! He speaks up his mind, so cool!!"
So sad to read this. I pitty you.
There are fans who doesn't care at all about the drama you know. Like they only cheer for Naniwa because they enjoy to watch his game.
I consider myself a pretty big 30 seconds to mars fan and I don't even know the band members name. I don't care, I enjoy their songs a lot and have bought their albums. I just don't care about them outside of the music they produce. And there are starcraft fans who thinks the same way about players. Only watch for their games, don't care about the drama etc.
Lastly I am swedish and I am not a naniwa fan so would be nice if you stop generalizing. A lot of us don't agree with Naniwas actions so. To me the only good thing about Naniwa is that he loses a lot to Leenock in tournament finals : )
On March 16 2014 01:40 sagefreke wrote: You don't go saying how "you haven't played starcraft in weeks" try to cheese your way to a win against a professional player, and then ragequit like a scrub saying it was the lack of soundproofing that caused you to lose.
When he grows up, he'll look back on this moment and regret it.
wow dude it was his birthday. His BIRTHDAY... He was supposed to get stuff for free
I know... Apparently it's a god given right to act like a dick on your birthday and nobody is allowed to call you out on it.
10 years from now when people look back on SC2, will they remember Naniwa as one of the best foreigner or the person who has one of the worst sportsmanship. If you're going to retire or stop playing, by all means give your spot up to someone who is willing to play for themselves and the fans. I hope Naniwa retire for good so we don't have to deal with this kind of antic again. First the probe rush, and now the forfeit on the big stage, I feel bad for the fans who came out to watch the matches and the fans who tuned in.
On March 16 2014 00:47 Broodwurst wrote: You can't really soundproof against a crowd of that size, booths do fuck all and noice-cancelling headphones only help so much.
You really can't, even if you perfectly soundproofed them, the damn thing would vibrate from all the noise. But they really need white noise generators to deal with commentators being heard.
Players are some of the biggest opponents of white noise generators.
How about we get some random people from the crowd to stand in the booth and bellow into the ears of the players for the duration of the game?
What hurts the scene even more is shoddy production that ruins the game. If anything it's a disgrace for Poland showing that they have no idea how to host a tournament. Thankfully we have good tournaments like Dreamhack that knows what the heck they are doing.
Let alone the shitty crowd. Kudos to NaNi.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
I would've booed and I am not from poland. He behaved bad towards the tourney, his opponent and the crowd. That is justification enough for me.
You got to love winning more than you hate losing. And judging from how much NaNi hates losing there's no wonder he's the best foreigner (or was). Anything else is irrelevant. Booing like a bunch of enviromentally damaged alcoholics just reinforces the caricature of post-Sovjet countrymen being wrongfully brought up savages. It's saddening to see.
Dude I`m just lost of words.... the lack of any thought.... enjoy your ban!!!! Bye bye
Well, I'm proving a point.
The crowd excuse their shitty behaviour with NaNi being BM when he's really jsut a fierce competitor. Plz enlighten me as to how the crowd acting like shitheads is justified just because NaNi sometimes shows his emotions because he really makes a big deal out of his esporting career?
To put it really bluntly, progamers exist to entertain us. It is the viewership that attracts sponsors who are willing to pay for players' equipment, salaries, flight tickets, and prize money. If they fail to entertain their viewers they will be critised. Naniwa has been acting like a dick for a long time now but people put up with it because he posted results. As soon as he stopped posting results though, people got sick of his antics.
Noone minds a player showing emotion, but if vitriolic and snide comments towards other players and the community are the only thing a player is capable of, people will get tired of that person really quickly.
Naniwa isn't the only person who takes his esports career seriously. Practically all the players at IEM Katowice do. Naniwa is just the only one that consistently behaves unprofessionaly (apart from Idra, but he left the scene a few months ago, in a similarly childish fashion as Naniwa did).
Wrong, progamers do not exist to entertain us. Naniwa, a progamer does not exist to entertain us. Nor do any other progamer. He is his own person with his own hopes and dreams and beliefs and free will, as are all of us. Progaming is job to entertain, there is a difference.
Without viewers, there isn't any progaming, assuming that progaming means making a living off of playing competitive video games. Hence if progamers don't entertain, people don't watch.
Also, being a human being, Naniwa is also expected to adhere to a set of societal norms. One of those is that acting the way he does is not acceptable for a 24-year-old.
On March 16 2014 00:47 Broodwurst wrote: You can't really soundproof against a crowd of that size, booths do fuck all and noice-cancelling headphones only help so much.
You really can't, even if you perfectly soundproofed them, the damn thing would vibrate from all the noise. But they really need white noise generators to deal with commentators being heard.
Players are some of the biggest opponents of white noise generators.
Well if they oppose it then that is on them. But it would make it near impossible to hear anything distinguishable
Wouldn''t that also have an effect on them hearing the game sound?
I doubt it, the headphones are in your ears, the generators may interfere but I doubt it would be noticable
Oh come one - white noise generator would reduce comfort of playing so much!
On March 15 2014 23:46 Orek wrote: If this incident doesn't prompt tournament organizers to take soundproof issue seriously, I don't know what would. Naniwa or not, it's disappointing that we have to talk about soundproof booths in 2014.
On March 16 2014 00:47 Broodwurst wrote: You can't really soundproof against a crowd of that size, booths do fuck all and noice-cancelling headphones only help so much.
You really can't, even if you perfectly soundproofed them, the damn thing would vibrate from all the noise. But they really need white noise generators to deal with commentators being heard.
Players are some of the biggest opponents of white noise generators.
Well if they oppose it then that is on them. But it would make it near impossible to hear anything distinguishable
Don't they use that at IEM or just play loud music in the headphones?
dunno, if a tournament organizer that has this kind of money distribution would put the players in a other room. especially, because this location they have is so amazingly awesome. Oh well, I do not have an answer.
Naniwa is standing up for what he believes. If he thinks something is wrong, he doesn't just roll with it. I have a lot of respect for Naniwa. But of course the masses will never see it that way, Naniwa is here to entertain you after all.
I've never been in one of those booths, but those Peltor ear phones are pretty soundproof. I have a pair at home. Still, there are a lot of people at the Spodek Arena, so something is bound to get through.
A shame Naniwa is leaving, though. I can empathize with him, seeing as I also am prone to self-sabotage. It's just a personality thing.
On March 16 2014 05:53 Heouf wrote: Well i couldnt hear anything. So polt just got lucky with scouting.
First minute of game. Intense cheering/movement of crowd/ vibration of booth all signals something is up. If someone gets excited at minute 20 nobody knows what exactly that means, but that early in the game it is only one thing. Nobody cheers if someone goes 3 nexus lol. Honestly though Naniwa is an asshat. If you're not prepared/don't want to play, then don't show up. That is less disgraceful than blaming your loss on external factors. What was he really going to do proxy gate to 1st place? This isn't how you "fight" for anything.
Now that I thought about it for a while I´m pretty sure you are trolling... yeah that must be it!
You need to practice thinking a bit more then. I'm not trolling at all. What a classless bunch of troglodytes they are. Booing like that is not how it's supposed to be done. Perhaps in Poland, but not anywhere else.
I would've booed and I am not from poland. He behaved bad towards the tourney, his opponent and the crowd. That is justification enough for me.
You got to love winning more than you hate losing. And judging from how much NaNi hates losing there's no wonder he's the best foreigner (or was). Anything else is irrelevant. Booing like a bunch of enviromentally damaged alcoholics just reinforces the caricature of post-Sovjet countrymen being wrongfully brought up savages. It's saddening to see.
Dude I`m just lost of words.... the lack of any thought.... enjoy your ban!!!! Bye bye
Well, I'm proving a point.
The crowd excuse their shitty behaviour with NaNi being BM when he's really jsut a fierce competitor. Plz enlighten me as to how the crowd acting like shitheads is justified just because NaNi sometimes shows his emotions because he really makes a big deal out of his esporting career?
To put it really bluntly, progamers exist to entertain us. It is the viewership that attracts sponsors who are willing to pay for players' equipment, salaries, flight tickets, and prize money. If they fail to entertain their viewers they will be critised. Naniwa has been acting like a dick for a long time now but people put up with it because he posted results. As soon as he stopped posting results though, people got sick of his antics.
Noone minds a player showing emotion, but if vitriolic and snide comments towards other players and the community are the only thing a player is capable of, people will get tired of that person really quickly.
Naniwa isn't the only person who takes his esports career seriously. Practically all the players at IEM Katowice do. Naniwa is just the only one that consistently behaves unprofessionaly (apart from Idra, but he left the scene a few months ago, in a similarly childish fashion as Naniwa did).
Wrong, progamers do not exist to entertain us. Naniwa, a progamer does not exist to entertain us. Nor do any other progamer. He is his own person with his own hopes and dreams and beliefs and free will, as are all of us. Progaming is job to entertain, there is a difference.
Without viewers, there isn't any progaming, assuming that progaming means making a living off of playing competitive video games. Hence if progamers don't entertain, people don't watch.
Also, being a human being, Naniwa is also expected to adhere to a set of societal norms. One of those is that acting the way he does is not acceptable for a 24-year-old.
The competition should be considered the main entertaining factor in a tournament, not the players nor the games. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't or couldn't be entertaining. Competitors don't owe the viewer anything. They are there to win even if their play is absolutely boring and predictable. If someone thought his best chance to win a tournament was to 11/11 or 5rax reaper every game he'd do it and there would be nothing you could do about it. Making the game entertaining is not the player's job. Without viewers there would still be the game with its competing players who would invest a lot of time in it without being paid. Being paid is certainly a benefit for the players but not a necessity though if they are they should behave decently I'll give you that.
a non-issue has become the talkative topic because naniwa used it as an excuse...
from what i hear, naniwa has used crowd's noise in the past (returning to missed proxy after crowd roaring). im certain its happened before to other players in the history of booths, players have heard crowd but not make out what it means, some players dont pay attention to it because it can mean anything. players complain and looked into. whatever the case, its sort of unavoidable and its been dealt with for a decade, a fucking more than a decade but since naniwa cried about it, its an issue all of a sudden.
the crowd noise in relation to polt's scout was and is a non-issue, but naniwa just cried/rage about it and left the game (no different than random rage quit on ladder due to lag, imba, cat, dog, whatever). some of you guys are giving too much benefit of doubt.
On March 16 2014 06:07 jinorazi wrote: a non-issue has become the talkative topic because naniwa used it as an excuse...
...
the crowd noise in relation to polt's scout was and is a non-issue, but naniwa just cried/rage about it and left the game (no different than random rage quit on ladder due to lag, imba, cat, dog, whatever). some of you guys are giving too much benefit of doubt.
Naniwa and soundproofing should be 2 separate discussions not a combined one because people get emotional about Naniwa and dismiss anything he says. He said he doesn't have any motivation and didn't train at all which was obvious after watching his WCS matches so any discussion about him is entirely pointless unless you feel disrespected because he robbed you of a best of 5 and doesn't give a shit about anyone. In that case you should get a tissue and cry a little. Or call your mom to comfort you if you are really pissed about it. The soundproofing thing came up yet again in GSL recently so that should be looked into.
On March 16 2014 06:07 jinorazi wrote: a non-issue has become the talkative topic because naniwa used it as an excuse...
...
the crowd noise in relation to polt's scout was and is a non-issue, but naniwa just cried/rage about it and left the game (no different than random rage quit on ladder due to lag, imba, cat, dog, whatever). some of you guys are giving too much benefit of doubt.
Naniwa and soundproofing should be 2 separate discussions not a combined one because people get emotional about Naniwa and dismiss anything he says. He said he doesn't have any motivation and didn't train at all which was obvious after watching his WCS matches so any discussion about him is entirely pointless unless you feel disrespected because he robbed you of a best of 5 and doesn't give a shit about anyone. In that case you should get a tissue and cry a little. Or call your mom to comfort you if you are really pissed about it. The soundproofing thing came up yet again in GSL recently so that should be looked into.
i like how you edited out the part where i said "unavoidable and dealt with for a decade" and say it like i didnt then say it, with a touch of personal insult. classy. rofl
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
This sounds like a joke to you?
I hope people finally understand why Naniwa is pure evil and just a massive shit and will share my hatred for him from now on.
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out. For all his skill, he continuously shows himself to have the emotional maturity of a child. He's too fragile and at this point, his antics are frankly annoying.
Adios, Naniwa. I wish I could say you'll be missed.
On March 16 2014 08:33 IPA wrote: Don't let the door hit you on the way out. For all his skill, he continuously shows himself to have the emotional maturity of a child. He's too fragile and at this point, his antics are frankly annoying.
It seems to me the people complaining about his antics are the ones who are emotionally immature. Why do a bunch of people care so much about the behavior of someone they don't even know?
The attitudes around this scene in relation to players is very strange. We don't own them, and they don't owe us anything. Our viewership provides their current careers, and for some reason this makes people feel they have power over the progamers. It's batshit crazy to me. We received countless hours of entertainment from Naniwa, and he was well paid. Quid pro quo as far as I'm concerned.
Naniwa was always a favorite player of mine. He probably worked harder than any foreigner, and reaped the benefits. He was very passionate about his own play and rightly so. Do I care he walked off mid series? Not at all. He's finished and that's how he decided to exit. His choice.
Thanks for the countless epic series Naniwa. Best foreigner that SC2 will probably ever know.
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
I hope people finally understand why Naniwa is pure evil and just a massive shit and will share my hatred for him from now on.
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
This sounds like a joke to you?
I hope people finally understand why Naniwa is pure evil and just a massive shit and will share my hatred for him from now on.
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
I'm not defending Naniwa, just attacking Stephano and other "douchebags" of this community.
On March 16 2014 08:33 IPA wrote: Don't let the door hit you on the way out. For all his skill, he continuously shows himself to have the emotional maturity of a child. He's too fragile and at this point, his antics are frankly annoying.
It seems to me the people complaining about his antics are the ones who are emotionally immature. Why do a bunch of people care so much about the behavior of someone they don't even know?
Because he represents a game that they like to potential new viewers, sponsors, etc. Also people get upset when someone they are rooting for gives zero effort.
The attitudes around this scene in relation to players is very strange. We don't own them, and they don't owe us anything. Our viewership provides their current careers, and for some reason this makes people feel they have power over the progamers. It's batshit crazy to me. We received countless hours of entertainment from Naniwa, and he was well paid. Quid pro quo as far as I'm concerned.
If you're going to spend your time and potentially money to watch Starcraft, you kind of want to see some Starcraft. Professional players should deliver that when they are paid to do so. It would have been extremely easy for him to half ass his way through the rest of that series but instead he just decided to quit.
Naniwa was always a favorite player of mine. He probably worked harder than any foreigner, and reaped the benefits. He was very passionate about his own play and rightly so. Do I care he walked off mid series? Not at all. He's finished and that's how he decided to exit. His choice.
Thanks for the countless epic series Naniwa. Best foreigner that SC2 will probably ever know.
It was in fact his choice to walk out like that. But as many selfish people do he didn't take into account how that would affect the viewers, and more importantly, IEM. First off IEM had to spend money to fly Naniwa out and pay for his hotel for him to put in this horrible performance. Secondly, Naniwa delayed the tournament and took up main stage time (which later became important as a series had to be pushed to the following day). Third, fans who had tuned in to see Naniwa play and had potentially cancelled plans just to see him (I have done this for certain players) cancelled their plans for nothing.
So call me emotionally immature if you want but I think Naniwa's actions were disrespectful to the tournament and the viewers.
so naniwa knew IEM had problems with soundproofing and he still decided to do proxy gate? and later decided to forfeit the series when he knew this issue has been going on last three years? that really doesnt make any sense to me.
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
This sounds like a joke to you?
I hope people finally understand why Naniwa is pure evil and just a massive shit and will share my hatred for him from now on.
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.
EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
This sounds like a joke to you?
I hope people finally understand why Naniwa is pure evil and just a massive shit and will share my hatred for him from now on.
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.
EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.
I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point.
Because he represents a game that they like to potential new viewers, sponsors, etc. Also people get upset when someone they are rooting for gives zero effort.
The scene will make it because it deserves it, not because one of many players is "disrespectful".
If you're going to spend your time and potentially money to watch Starcraft, you kind of want to see some Starcraft. Professional players should deliver that when they are paid to do so. It would have been extremely easy for him to half ass his way through the rest of that series but instead he just decided to quit.
Had he probe rushed would that have been better or worse? 4-gated? People would complain no matter what if he didn't give 100%.
It was in fact his choice to walk out like that. But as many selfish people do he didn't take into account how that would affect the viewers, and more importantly, IEM. First off IEM had to spend money to fly Naniwa out and pay for his hotel for him to put in this horrible performance. Secondly, Naniwa delayed the tournament and took up main stage time (which later became important as a series had to be pushed to the following day). Third, fans who had tuned in to see Naniwa play and had potentially cancelled plans just to see him (I have done this for certain players) cancelled their plans for nothing.
So call me emotionally immature if you want but I think Naniwa's actions were disrespectful to the tournament and the viewers.
IEM is the only entity in this entire debacle that has any legitimate claim to be upset. I could care less that someone missed a couple games because Naniwa walked out. And no one in their right mind would cancel anything worthwhile to see one series of Naniwa, especially when he claimed he hadn't touched the game in over a month.
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
This sounds like a joke to you?
I hope people finally understand why Naniwa is pure evil and just a massive shit and will share my hatred for him from now on.
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.
EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.
I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point.
There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results.
On March 16 2014 05:33 dream-_- wrote: Naniwa is standing up for what he believes. If he thinks something is wrong, he doesn't just roll with it. I have a lot of respect for Naniwa. But of course the masses will never see it that way, Naniwa is here to entertain you after all.
You could basically justify every asshole in earth's brief history with that confuse excuse of an argument...
On March 16 2014 05:33 dream-_- wrote: Naniwa is standing up for what he believes. If he thinks something is wrong, he doesn't just roll with it. I have a lot of respect for Naniwa. But of course the masses will never see it that way, Naniwa is here to entertain you after all.
You could basically justify every asshole in earth's brief history with that confuse excuse of an argument...
That's not truth. I'll have always respect for hard working and sincere people. I will never have respect for people who do little and call others using aggressive language.
Of course the masses will never see it that way, cause the masses are basically dumb.
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
This sounds like a joke to you?
I hope people finally understand why Naniwa is pure evil and just a massive shit and will share my hatred for him from now on.
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.
EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.
I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point.
There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results.
It's not ok to call anybody "pure evil", ask for "hatred", nor for "cancer". When somebody uses this kind of rhetoric, then that's a problem, and this person himself is not ok.
There is no problem when a player forfeits his game according to the rules of the tournament.
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
This sounds like a joke to you?
I hope people finally understand why Naniwa is pure evil and just a massive shit and will share my hatred for him from now on.
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.
EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.
I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point.
There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results.
There is no problem when a player forfeits his game according to the rules of the tournament.
technically hes not breaking any official rule but theres also the implicit rule associated with any professional competitive sport/gaming. If people pay money to watch professional athletes, they can reasonably expect to see their best effort. If i was watching a professional boxer, he can technically throw in the towel at any time without breaking any rules. However, if he threw in the towel without putting up a fight, then he can reasonably receive shit from the audience. Naniwa deserves all the shit he receives because he brings it on himself. Like the highly anticipated nestea game where he probe rushed with his hand on his chin.. he called it a meaningless game but how about putting on a show for the fans that literally make his lifestyle possible? How bout play for GOM who was broadcasting the game live to their paying audience and was generous enough to give him a seed to Code S. Or represent the team which pays his salary in a positive light? Also his refusal to shake hands with his opponent which is almost a universal show of sportsmanship in every sport.. he has no one to blame but himself. Anyone who conducts themselves in a respectable manner doesnt get half the shit he gets.
I just watched the video seeing Naniwa leave. I don't feel as pissed as I did before, I just feel sad for this kind of end to a career. He had the potential, seriously, and decisions like going for an in-base proxy vs. Hyun in that IEM NY Game 5 really made him look ballsy. Going out this way just sucks for everyone that's involved, be it Naniwa, ESL, we as watchers, or even Polt as the opponent. Naniwa took the worst road he could possibly take, although it was not against any rules or so. Just sad .
Sponsors will be pissed (oh well, dunno, "any publicity is good publicity" for some guys), his fans are disappointed, watchers are pissed/sad/disappointed.. worst way to end his career. And I guess he does.
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
This sounds like a joke to you?
I hope people finally understand why Naniwa is pure evil and just a massive shit and will share my hatred for him from now on.
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.
EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.
I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point.
There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results.
There is no problem when a player forfeits his game according to the rules of the tournament.
[...] If people pay money to watch professional athletes, they can reasonably expect to see their best effort. [...]
Except you're not paying money. Only the live audience did, and they still get the things they paid for. They won't miss the final or anything. Also, I guess the rules are available somewhere, somehow, so technically, the paying guy could've (should've?) known the "risks" he's taking. You're going way too much into theorycrafting I think.
On March 16 2014 09:26 blinken wrote: IEM is the only entity in this entire debacle that has any legitimate claim to be upset. I could care less that someone missed a couple games because Naniwa walked out. And no one in their right mind would cancel anything worthwhile to see one series of Naniwa, especially when he claimed he hadn't touched the game in over a month.
Other people who have a legitimate claim to be upset
His team
HIs teams sponsors
Every spectator who paid money to attend that event
Every other team and their sponsors (because shit like this makes us all look bad and hinders the growth of this sport)
It seems to me the people complaining about his antics are the ones who are emotionally immature. Why do a bunch of people care so much about the behavior of someone they don't even know?
For me, it isn't entertaining to watch that kind of behavior. His whole schtick is tired and sour. Oooh, the passive aggressive smiley again. Oooh, a forfeit. How compelling Naniwa.
It's not about "caring so much"; it's just a subjective preference. As a fan of the game, I'd rather not see someone like him spoiling my experience with the whole entitled / poor sport thing that he's hung his hat on for years. Is that difficult to understand?
On March 16 2014 08:33 IPA wrote: Don't let the door hit you on the way out. For all his skill, he continuously shows himself to have the emotional maturity of a child. He's too fragile and at this point, his antics are frankly annoying.
It seems to me the people complaining about his antics are the ones who are emotionally immature. Why do a bunch of people care so much about the behavior of someone they don't even know?
The attitudes around this scene in relation to players is very strange. We don't own them, and they don't owe us anything. Our viewership provides their current careers, and for some reason this makes people feel they have power over the progamers. It's batshit crazy to me. We received countless hours of entertainment from Naniwa, and he was well paid. Quid pro quo as far as I'm concerned...
Just imagine it yourself. There is a big lead up to this event, everyone is expecting you to play your best and give a good show, there is no indication that you will suddenly forfeit if certain elements are not to your liking. I understand in some cases (like say streaming from home), you can choose when you want to stream and people have no right to demand that you stream for them.
But in this case, we have an entire, fairly prestigious tournament being planned, that people have planned their weekend around hoping to see their favourite player play (or just to watch a great or good game). When you suddenly pull out, without giving any really good reason except, apparently, that he doesn't like the sound booths and is just angry in general, it can be a pretty big let down because there is an unspoken expectation that the players came their to play, and you to watch. For many, its not only a let down, but it can be anger inducing.
Just imagine it in the extreme case...suppose that all of the progamers left after playing one game after their proxy was scouted. Wouldn't you feel like you've been ripped off, and the tournament that was setup for you to watch was just a waste of your time and possibly money? Now just scale it down to one person. Its the same principle; some people are fanatics about starcraft 2; some do really love the game and love watching certain players clash. It may not be you or I who feel this way, but I think its understandable that they would be upset about the turn of events.
I think its fine to have some sympathy for him and his emotional problems, but he does have an unspoken responsibility as I outlined above. Although I have to say, as a passive viewer sitting at home, casually tuning in to watch the events, I can say I was mildly disappointed but it hardly affected me at all. But if I flew out all the way to IEM to watch, I'd probably be a little pissed. Its not an official contract you sign to "please" or "entertain" the viewers, but there is obviously an unspoken trust that you go there to play for them, because that's why they came specifically to watch.
And the funny thing is, Naniwa agreed with all of this after the 6-probe rush incident! But he just doesn't care enough this time.
On March 16 2014 00:47 Broodwurst wrote: You can't really soundproof against a crowd of that size, booths do fuck all and noice-cancelling headphones only help so much.
You really can't, even if you perfectly soundproofed them, the damn thing would vibrate from all the noise. But they really need white noise generators to deal with commentators being heard.
Players are some of the biggest opponents of white noise generators.
It doesn't have to be white noise, it could be crowd noise from previous tournaments and turned off 5-8 minutes into the game.
On March 16 2014 09:26 blinken wrote: IEM is the only entity in this entire debacle that has any legitimate claim to be upset. I could care less that someone missed a couple games because Naniwa walked out. And no one in their right mind would cancel anything worthwhile to see one series of Naniwa, especially when he claimed he hadn't touched the game in over a month.
Other people who have a legitimate claim to be upset
His team
HIs teams sponsors
Every spectator who paid money to attend that event
Every other team and their sponsors (because shit like this makes us all look bad and hinders the growth of this sport)
Alliance sponsored Naniwa. Naniwa. You don't think they had an idea of what they were getting into? If not, they certainly should have. People don't change.
And why sponsor Naniwa? To appeal to his fanbase. Are they the ones freaking out or is it everyone else? His actions may hinder growth, but only in the sense that the best foreigner just quit. And let's be real, your team is solid no one would ever pull a stunt like this. It's a unique situation I feel gives the community character and lore rather than makes us look bad (being such an isolated event).
I think attending the event would have been legendary. If Naniwa never comes back than that is a pretty huge event in e-sports history, and these people had a front row seat. How many production errors have we suffered over the years which have wasted far more of everyone's time? We will forgive that but a player potentially at his wits end literally losing his will to play right before our eyes is blasphemy? I'm not saying it was right what he did, but the effect is far outweighing the cause.
It happened, let's move forth. I think this kind of drama is what this community unfortunately relies upon, and it's not its finest hour.
You know, I'm getting tired of all this eSports crap. Maybe it's time for people to be reminded of the game. The GAME for fuck's sake, and not this whole eSports debacle that's been strapped on, dragging it into the ground.
The foundation is the game. Sometimes I wish this would all burn away. You build on top of a solid foundation. You go back to your roots. You feel it out, invest your passion into something you decide is worthy of your time. And if that passion dies? Well I'd rather be Naniwa and leave without caring what "eSports" thinks, then sit and suffer (a la IdrA).
For god's sake, people have forgotten the game. Or maybe they haven't forgotten it - they're mired in all the eSports bullshit that's been layered on top - suffocating the foundation until we can't even breathe.
I said before that Naniwa acted on what he felt was right - that it was time to leave, - that he couldn't be bothered to play anymore because it just wasn't fucking worth it. At least he had the balls to leave on an impulse.
This isn't a professional sport. It's a goddamned game. And a competition should be a spectacle that gamers take part in together out of passion built upon a solid foundation. Only here, now, - the foundation ISN'T the game...it's become eSports this, eSports that. All for eSports! I never thought I'd understand this point of view.
Stop trying to "professionalize" something that is, at its core, not professional. And if people are going to try to make a living playing games...don't act on a foundation of professionalism. Act on the proper foundation. The GAME.
You know, there's something really beautiful about Brood War at this moment. Something that I think this community has lost. And that's a proper foundation.
I don't get how people still can feel sympathy towards naniwa after this... I was there in the crowd to see some of his swedish fans that traveled to see him (some believed that he could pull an upset and win, otherswanted to just see him play one last time) leave the venue in disbelief. he also looked so tilted even before the game started, just no passion and if he wanted to lose anyway.
he should have canceled the participation in advance imo
On March 16 2014 08:33 IPA wrote: Don't let the door hit you on the way out. For all his skill, he continuously shows himself to have the emotional maturity of a child. He's too fragile and at this point, his antics are frankly annoying.
It seems to me the people complaining about his antics are the ones who are emotionally immature. Why do a bunch of people care so much about the behavior of someone they don't even know?
The attitudes around this scene in relation to players is very strange. We don't own them, and they don't owe us anything. Our viewership provides their current careers, and for some reason this makes people feel they have power over the progamers. It's batshit crazy to me. We received countless hours of entertainment from Naniwa, and he was well paid. Quid pro quo as far as I'm concerned.
Naniwa was always a favorite player of mine. He probably worked harder than any foreigner, and reaped the benefits. He was very passionate about his own play and rightly so. Do I care he walked off mid series? Not at all. He's finished and that's how he decided to exit. His choice.
Thanks for the countless epic series Naniwa. Best foreigner that SC2 will probably ever know.
This is completely how I feel about the situation. NaNiwa provided countless hours of entertainment. Great guy that lost passion in a game, can't blame him as i've lost passion watching SC2 for years. I only tune in to watch him, mvp, and nestea.
On March 16 2014 15:18 cythaze wrote: I don't get how people still can feel sympathy towards naniwa after this... I was there in the crowd to see some of his swedish fans that traveled to see him (some believed that he could pull an upset and win, otherswanted to just see him play one last time) leave the venue in disbelief. he also looked so tilted even before the game started, just no passion and if he wanted to lose anyway.
he should have canceled the participation in advance imo
Maybe because Naniwa has legit autism related mental condition, and most people just enjoy hating on someone just for fun, like getting on the internet bashing bandwagon, or for example hating on someone like IdrA just because other people are doing it. People forget Naniwa is the best and most consistent non Korean player to win and get far in stacked events for a very long time. Most people hating on him think Esports is some drama and the players are animals that are there to entertain them.
If you were a true fan of someone, you would be more concerned with his mental state and his health. This is a video game, not professional baseball or anything.
On March 15 2014 01:27 Teoita wrote: Pretty asshole move of him to forfeit like this and not give his spot to Hasu tbh
How does make him an asshole?
I agree that he went out in a shitty way, but if I were in his stead, I certainly wouldn't give up on my salary for attendance out of charity. He probably made more money this weekend than Hasu makes in a year.
And let's not delude ourselves thinking for a second that Hasuobs would have had any higher chance of taking a map from Polt than an apathetic Naniwa who forfeits after game one.
Hasu has always been his little buddy anyway. Naniwa makes the decisions in that twosome.
Hasuobs is older than Naniwa + there is no twosome, what are you talking about?
Naniwa got what he asked for, I won't miss him playing SC
I guess beating MVP and Nestea while getting ro8 in GSL is just something anyone can do I guess?
The player that did that checked out months ago. The person on that stage was a child undeserving of respect.
Exactly what I was saying in my post on the other page. The Naniwa as of late, 2014 have been utterly miserable and I wont let that overshadow what he have done before that.
He was always acting like an immature kid. But at least he had the skills behind the drama during his prime. Now he is all drama, no skill. And if people forget all the good things he did in SC2, he only has himself to blame for that.
On March 16 2014 15:17 Qwyn wrote: You know, I'm getting tired of all this eSports crap. Maybe it's time for people to be reminded of the game. The GAME for fuck's sake, and not this whole eSports debacle that's been strapped on, dragging it into the ground.
The foundation is the game. Sometimes I wish this would all burn away. You build on top of a solid foundation. You go back to your roots. You feel it out, invest your passion into something you decide is worthy of your time. And if that passion dies? Well I'd rather be Naniwa and leave without caring what "eSports" thinks, then sit and suffer (a la IdrA).
For god's sake, people have forgotten the game. Or maybe they haven't forgotten it - they're mired in all the eSports bullshit that's been layered on top - suffocating the foundation until we can't even breathe.
I said before that Naniwa acted on what he felt was right - that it was time to leave, - that he couldn't be bothered to play anymore because it just wasn't fucking worth it. At least he had the balls to leave on an impulse.
This isn't a professional sport. It's a goddamned game. And a competition should be a spectacle that gamers take part in together out of passion built upon a solid foundation. Only here, now, - the foundation ISN'T the game...it's become eSports this, eSports that. All for eSports! I never thought I'd understand this point of view.
Stop trying to "professionalize" something that is, at its core, not professional. And if people are going to try to make a living playing games...don't act on a foundation of professionalism. Act on the proper foundation. The GAME.
You know, there's something really beautiful about Brood War at this moment. Something that I think this community has lost. And that's a proper foundation.
well everything you said apply to EVERY OTHER SPORT , soccer , its just a GAME at its core and the poor kid in "insert 3rd world country" plays it for pure fun as most of the pro`s starts , but it has another side -> competitive which has all the drama , transfers , expectations ! and stories , we are watching the competitive side of the game and expect a certain amount of professionalism , if you stick only to the "GAME" side , watch streams or whatever , but dont come here and tell us that competitive is bullshit and we should all accept paid workers to do as they see fit , grow up , naniwa is in it for the money he DOES SEE IT as esports this and that and that was drove him forward the need to be #1 in the COMPETITIVE world and not your fantasy -> lets just play it for fun , and waste our lives doing so. (if you actually want them to practice for 10 hours a day , and demonstrate the best possible games).
On March 15 2014 20:28 Iduakil wrote: Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
This community is a community of douchebags.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Community isnt full of douchebags.
Its full of teenagers and young adults whose brain doesnt grow at the same pace as their body.
On March 16 2014 15:18 cythaze wrote: I don't get how people still can feel sympathy towards naniwa after this... I was there in the crowd to see some of his swedish fans that traveled to see him (some believed that he could pull an upset and win, otherswanted to just see him play one last time) leave the venue in disbelief. he also looked so tilted even before the game started, just no passion and if he wanted to lose anyway.
he should have canceled the participation in advance imo
Maybe because Naniwa has legit autism related mental condition, and most people just enjoy hating on someone just for fun, like getting on the internet bashing bandwagon, or for example hating on someone like IdrA just because other people are doing it. People forget Naniwa is the best and most consistent non Korean player to win and get far in stacked events for a very long time. Most people hating on him think Esports is some drama and the players are animals that are there to entertain them.
If you were a true fan of someone, you would be more concerned with his mental state and his health. This is a video game, not professional baseball or anything.
Wait... You mean he's really autistic ? I thought it was a bad joke about him from haters.
I'm not supprised at all, nani said earlier he's not even playing the game anymore, sitting on the hotel playing LoL says it all. He should have given his spot to anyone IF possible, i dont think its possible tho, since they have to earn their spot, it's so disrespectful to fans and to other players and to the whole esport community, he will certainly be remembered as an idiot, and god knows he deserves it. I was a huge fan of nani before but i can't take this, he made a lot o stupid things before but this takes it to a new lvl of stupidity. If he only could have been a little professional and practice for this last tournament of his, and then quit, then i would have no problems with it.
On March 16 2014 11:42 boxerfred wrote: I just watched the video seeing Naniwa leave. I don't feel as pissed as I did before, I just feel sad for this kind of end to a career. He had the potential, seriously, and decisions like going for an in-base proxy vs. Hyun in that IEM NY Game 5 really made him look ballsy. Going out this way just sucks for everyone that's involved, be it Naniwa, ESL, we as watchers, or even Polt as the opponent. Naniwa took the worst road he could possibly take, although it was not against any rules or so. Just sad .
Sponsors will be pissed (oh well, dunno, "any publicity is good publicity" for some guys), his fans are disappointed, watchers are pissed/sad/disappointed.. worst way to end his career. And I guess he does.
Unfortunately, I'm not surprised, given that Stephano dares judging on his Twitter another player as "pure evil" and asks his fans for hatred toward that player. I've never heard such a thing in my life from a respected "celebrity". Asking publicly for hatred toward another person?! This is how you want your community leaders to speak? I'm not surprised that people here are full of hatred after hearing and propagating comments such as Stephano's comment. Unfortunately, such people make this community disgraceful.
This community is in fact disgusting because of how aggressive it became. I start to wonder why do I even follow it.
Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
This sounds like a joke to you?
I hope people finally understand why Naniwa is pure evil and just a massive shit and will share my hatred for him from now on.
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.
EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.
I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point.
There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results.
There is no problem when a player forfeits his game according to the rules of the tournament.
[...] If people pay money to watch professional athletes, they can reasonably expect to see their best effort. [...]
Except you're not paying money. Only the live audience did, and they still get the things they paid for. They won't miss the final or anything. Also, I guess the rules are available somewhere, somehow, so technically, the paying guy could've (should've?) known the "risks" he's taking. You're going way too much into theorycrafting I think.
Not even live audience paid anything. The tickets were free.
Not to mention, that this "implicit rule" is questionable, while the rule of having the possibility of forfeiting is a real written rule.
On March 16 2014 15:18 cythaze wrote: I don't get how people still can feel sympathy towards naniwa after this... I was there in the crowd to see some of his swedish fans that traveled to see him (some believed that he could pull an upset and win, otherswanted to just see him play one last time) leave the venue in disbelief. he also looked so tilted even before the game started, just no passion and if he wanted to lose anyway.
he should have canceled the participation in advance imo
He shouldn't do anything. Although, he actually warned his fans that he is going to get trashed.
People have a toxic attitude toward him, either expect stuff from him, or hate him, because last year he was the best foreigner and because of his controversial behavior. They should just accept the way he is and either watch him or not.
On March 16 2014 11:42 boxerfred wrote: I just watched the video seeing Naniwa leave. I don't feel as pissed as I did before, I just feel sad for this kind of end to a career. He had the potential, seriously, and decisions like going for an in-base proxy vs. Hyun in that IEM NY Game 5 really made him look ballsy. Going out this way just sucks for everyone that's involved, be it Naniwa, ESL, we as watchers, or even Polt as the opponent. Naniwa took the worst road he could possibly take, although it was not against any rules or so. Just sad .
Sponsors will be pissed (oh well, dunno, "any publicity is good publicity" for some guys), his fans are disappointed, watchers are pissed/sad/disappointed.. worst way to end his career. And I guess he does.
On March 16 2014 11:40 for_the_swarm wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:54 pms wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:34 TUski wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:26 Darkhorse wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:18 ThePlagueJG wrote:
On March 16 2014 08:51 Darkhorse wrote:
On March 16 2014 08:11 pms wrote:
On March 16 2014 07:37 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] Haha Stephano's thing was a joke he is a huge troll. And with the things Naniwa has said about fellow players I don't see why you are complaining. But by all means continue to point out the flaws in other players and ignore Naniwa's.
This sounds like a joke to you?
I hope people finally understand why Naniwa is pure evil and just a massive shit and will share my hatred for him from now on.
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.
EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.
I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point.
There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results.
There is no problem when a player forfeits his game according to the rules of the tournament.
[...] If people pay money to watch professional athletes, they can reasonably expect to see their best effort. [...]
Except you're not paying money. Only the live audience did, and they still get the things they paid for. They won't miss the final or anything. Also, I guess the rules are available somewhere, somehow, so technically, the paying guy could've (should've?) known the "risks" he's taking. You're going way too much into theorycrafting I think.
Not even live audience paid anything. The tickets were free.
Not to mention, that this "implicit rule" is questionable, while the rule of having the possibility of forfeiting is a real written rule.
On March 16 2014 09:26 blinken wrote: IEM is the only entity in this entire debacle that has any legitimate claim to be upset. I could care less that someone missed a couple games because Naniwa walked out. And no one in their right mind would cancel anything worthwhile to see one series of Naniwa, especially when he claimed he hadn't touched the game in over a month.
Other people who have a legitimate claim to be upset
His team
HIs teams sponsors
Every spectator who paid money to attend that event
Every other team and their sponsors (because shit like this makes us all look bad and hinders the growth of this sport)
Man, I'm loosing my respect to you. I thought you're a bit more cool-headed.
Get real. There is nothing better for Starcraft than a foreigner winning against Koreans. Naniwa still has fans and people would still enjoy him winning against Koreans. I still prefer watching Naniwa than anybody else.
You and Stephano you're just making propaganda come true in Starcraft. I still have more respect for Naniwa than to Stephano, who is just openly propagating hatred toward Naniwa. How is such hatred even acceptable for this community?
On March 16 2014 09:26 blinken wrote: IEM is the only entity in this entire debacle that has any legitimate claim to be upset. I could care less that someone missed a couple games because Naniwa walked out. And no one in their right mind would cancel anything worthwhile to see one series of Naniwa, especially when he claimed he hadn't touched the game in over a month.
Other people who have a legitimate claim to be upset
His team
HIs teams sponsors
Every spectator who paid money to attend that event
Every other team and their sponsors (because shit like this makes us all look bad and hinders the growth of this sport)
Man, I'm loosing my respect to you. I thought you're a bit more cool-headed.
Get real. There is nothing better for Starcraft than a foreigner winning against Koreans. Naniwa still has fans and people would still enjoy him winning against Koreans. I still prefer watching Naniwa than anybody else.
You and Stephano you're just making propaganda come true in Starcraft. I still have more respect for Naniwa than to Stephano, who is just openly propagating hatred toward Naniwa. How is such hatred even acceptable for this community?
Lol IdrA would have never done that shit on a huge stage in front of a lot of ppl.. never in a million years. Naniwa is like next level IdrA lol. Like ascended sayian version.. Worst idra would have done is not gg that game, then 6 pool every game after that, saying GG at the end of everyone of them and acting like nothing is going on .
People here are talking about so much irrelevant things, but the fact is:
Naniwa wasnt even competing anymore. He was there to do what he does best: show the force of the dark side.
All the middleclass-moralists as always try to rule their own minds by projecting everything destructive and unjust on the elegant (though in this case beer-bellyshaped) apperance from the underworld, to continue live in their well-mannered inferno of civilized monkeybusiness.
But they know deep down that with only Luke Skywalkers on the screen they would burn their tickets.
All the middleclass-moralists as always try to rule their own minds by projecting everything destructive and unjust on the elegant (though in this case beer-bellyshaped) apperance from the underworld, to continue live in their well-mannered inferno of civilized monkeybusiness.
Calling out bourgeois hypocrisy right where it hurts! Naniwa and Bertholdz - modern Galileis.
On March 16 2014 23:55 Bertholdz wrote: People here are talking about so much irrelevant things, but the fact is:
Naniwa wasnt even competing anymore. He was there to do what he does best: show the force of the dark side.
All the middleclass-moralists as always try to rule their own minds by projecting everything destructive and unjust on the elegant (though in this case beer-bellyshaped) apperance from the underworld, to continue live in their well-mannered inferno of civilized monkeybusiness.
But they know deep down that with only Luke Skywalkers on the screen they would burn their tickets.
On March 16 2014 23:55 Bertholdz wrote: People here are talking about so much irrelevant things, but the fact is:
Naniwa wasnt even competing anymore. He was there to do what he does best: show the force of the dark side.
All the middleclass-moralists as always try to rule their own minds by projecting everything destructive and unjust on the elegant (though in this case beer-bellyshaped) apperance from the underworld, to continue live in their well-mannered inferno of civilized monkeybusiness.
But they know deep down that with only Luke Skywalkers on the screen they would burn their tickets.
That is bullshit. You can create rivalries while showing good sportsmanship. Why would you defend Naniwa for being a sore loser? Not really my definition of someone who has cojones... quite the opposite I might say.
Sometimes I feel like TL is occupied by old women when it comes to controversial topics (like Naniwa). One of his biggest draws (aside from being -- or having been one of the best foreigners ever in SC2) is that he doesn't abide by the golden community standard of professionalism. Anyone who was surprised he could go out like this were either delusional (he hadn't practiced in a month), or simply want to be surprised so they can rant even more how much they dislike Naniwa. The only reason most of us give a shit at all is because of his lack of self-censoring.
On March 16 2014 11:42 boxerfred wrote: I just watched the video seeing Naniwa leave. I don't feel as pissed as I did before, I just feel sad for this kind of end to a career. He had the potential, seriously, and decisions like going for an in-base proxy vs. Hyun in that IEM NY Game 5 really made him look ballsy. Going out this way just sucks for everyone that's involved, be it Naniwa, ESL, we as watchers, or even Polt as the opponent. Naniwa took the worst road he could possibly take, although it was not against any rules or so. Just sad .
Sponsors will be pissed (oh well, dunno, "any publicity is good publicity" for some guys), his fans are disappointed, watchers are pissed/sad/disappointed.. worst way to end his career. And I guess he does.
On March 16 2014 11:40 for_the_swarm wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:54 pms wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:34 TUski wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:26 Darkhorse wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:18 ThePlagueJG wrote:
On March 16 2014 08:51 Darkhorse wrote:
On March 16 2014 08:11 pms wrote: [quote]
This sounds like a joke to you?
[quote]
Right, just a joke, and everybody of 300 people who re-tweeted it know it.
Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.
EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.
I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point.
There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results.
There is no problem when a player forfeits his game according to the rules of the tournament.
[...] If people pay money to watch professional athletes, they can reasonably expect to see their best effort. [...]
Except you're not paying money. Only the live audience did, and they still get the things they paid for. They won't miss the final or anything. Also, I guess the rules are available somewhere, somehow, so technically, the paying guy could've (should've?) known the "risks" he's taking. You're going way too much into theorycrafting I think.
Not even live audience paid anything. The tickets were free.
Not to mention, that this "implicit rule" is questionable, while the rule of having the possibility of forfeiting is a real written rule.
Travelling, opportunity cost?
that deserves a facepalm, implicating the thing about "too much theorycrafting" mentioned before
On March 17 2014 03:38 rd wrote: Sometimes I feel like TL is occupied by old women when it comes to controversial topics (like Naniwa). One of his biggest draws (aside from being -- or having been one of the best foreigners ever in SC2) is that he doesn't abide by the golden community standard of professionalism. Anyone who was surprised he could go out like this were either delusional (he hadn't practiced in a month), or simply want to be surprised so they can rant even more how much they dislike Naniwa. The only reason most of us give a shit at all is because of his lack of self-censoring.
People gave a shit because he is/was the best foreigner. He gave a lot of bm everywhere and people are giving bm back. It's all fun and games maybe if you like this kinda thing.
so tb played the game ? I mean maybe naniwa could really hear something and got mad because of that. I hate how tb always knows everything. I mean afterall naniwa was sitting there and maybe heard the crowd and got mad thats all its naniwa he gets angry pretty fast.
On March 16 2014 09:26 blinken wrote: IEM is the only entity in this entire debacle that has any legitimate claim to be upset. I could care less that someone missed a couple games because Naniwa walked out. And no one in their right mind would cancel anything worthwhile to see one series of Naniwa, especially when he claimed he hadn't touched the game in over a month.
Other people who have a legitimate claim to be upset
His team
HIs teams sponsors
Every spectator who paid money to attend that event
Every other team and their sponsors (because shit like this makes us all look bad and hinders the growth of this sport)
Man, I'm loosing my respect to you. I thought you're a bit more cool-headed.
Get real. There is nothing better for Starcraft than a foreigner winning against Koreans. Naniwa still has fans and people would still enjoy him winning against Koreans. I still prefer watching Naniwa than anybody else.
You and Stephano you're just making propaganda come true in Starcraft. I still have more respect for Naniwa than to Stephano, who is just openly propagating hatred toward Naniwa. How is such hatred even acceptable for this community?
You're losing respect for TB because you thought he was more cool-headed, eh? I thought cool-headed might describe thinking about more than just one person, like all the other people working to make IEM happen that TB wrote about.
If there's "nothing better for Starcraft than a foreigner winning against Koreans," what value do you place on a foreigner quitting after going down 0-1 in a BO5? Naniwa greatly lowered his net worth with his exit this weekend.
Stephano has some fans that defend and support him no matter what, just like Naniwa. That hardly constitutes the community accepting hateful behavior.
On March 16 2014 11:42 boxerfred wrote: I just watched the video seeing Naniwa leave. I don't feel as pissed as I did before, I just feel sad for this kind of end to a career. He had the potential, seriously, and decisions like going for an in-base proxy vs. Hyun in that IEM NY Game 5 really made him look ballsy. Going out this way just sucks for everyone that's involved, be it Naniwa, ESL, we as watchers, or even Polt as the opponent. Naniwa took the worst road he could possibly take, although it was not against any rules or so. Just sad .
Sponsors will be pissed (oh well, dunno, "any publicity is good publicity" for some guys), his fans are disappointed, watchers are pissed/sad/disappointed.. worst way to end his career. And I guess he does.
On March 16 2014 11:40 for_the_swarm wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:54 pms wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:34 TUski wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:26 Darkhorse wrote:
On March 16 2014 09:18 ThePlagueJG wrote:
On March 16 2014 08:51 Darkhorse wrote: [quote] Address the rest of my post please. Like how Naniwa said he hopes Vortix's family gets cancer or some shit. Really puts calling someone "pure evil" into perspective.
I'm not saying you are wrong(You're probably right) and I'm not exactly defending NaNiwa here either, but is it proven that NaNiwa said that? It could be NaNiwa being an asshole or VortiX making something up(No I dont really believe this), but I really don't like something which is word against word.
EDIT: A better example of NaNiwa being ''pure evil'' is (While provoked) the text to Nerchio before the Tefel game etc.
I don't actually have proof firsthand of it I just remember Vortix or someone mentioning it at some point.
There was a screenshot of it at some point a long time back. I'm sure a quick google search would net you some results.
There is no problem when a player forfeits his game according to the rules of the tournament.
[...] If people pay money to watch professional athletes, they can reasonably expect to see their best effort. [...]
Except you're not paying money. Only the live audience did, and they still get the things they paid for. They won't miss the final or anything. Also, I guess the rules are available somewhere, somehow, so technically, the paying guy could've (should've?) known the "risks" he's taking. You're going way too much into theorycrafting I think.
Not even live audience paid anything. The tickets were free.
Not to mention, that this "implicit rule" is questionable, while the rule of having the possibility of forfeiting is a real written rule.
Travelling, opportunity cost?
that deserves a facepalm, implicating the thing about "too much theorycrafting" mentioned before
What really takes the cake was the end if this tournament, sOs did some pretty cheesy strats. Would he have done them if he thought there was a problem with the sound proofing? Did hero find his proxies beacuse of bad soundproofing? >_> lol this just shows what a load of bull Nanis excuse was.
On March 17 2014 18:37 Shuffleblade wrote: What really takes the cake was the end if this tournament, sOs did some pretty cheesy strats. Would he have done them if he thought there was a problem with the sound proofing? Did hero find his proxies beacuse of bad soundproofing? >_> lol this just shows what a load of bull Nanis excuse was.
Naniwa's reaction: my opponent can understand from the crowd that I proxy, and therefore I can't win. sOs's rection: my opponent can understand from the crowd that I proxy, therefore I can trick him
What NaNiwa thought was a disadvantage, sOs used as an advantage.
On March 16 2014 23:55 Bertholdz wrote: People here are talking about so much irrelevant things, but the fact is:
Naniwa wasnt even competing anymore. He was there to do what he does best: show the force of the dark side.
All the middleclass-moralists as always try to rule their own minds by projecting everything destructive and unjust on the elegant (though in this case beer-bellyshaped) apperance from the underworld, to continue live in their well-mannered inferno of civilized monkeybusiness.
But they know deep down that with only Luke Skywalkers on the screen they would burn their tickets.
On March 17 2014 18:37 Shuffleblade wrote: What really takes the cake was the end if this tournament, sOs did some pretty cheesy strats. Would he have done them if he thought there was a problem with the sound proofing? Did hero find his proxies beacuse of bad soundproofing? >_> lol this just shows what a load of bull Nanis excuse was.
Naniwa's reaction: my opponent can understand from the crowd that I proxy, and therefore I can't win.
It's still not evaluated if the soundproofing really was the issue. Maybe Naniwa was just like "LOL scv, he must've heard me" - oh hell, and even if the crowd was cheering, it was more likely to be for the player's introduction. Also, I re-watched the freakin' game, the crowd wasn't even that loud on that proxy. Stop finding excuses.
On March 16 2014 15:17 Qwyn wrote: [...] I said before that Naniwa acted on what he felt was right - that it was time to leave, - that he couldn't be bothered to play anymore because it just wasn't fucking worth it. At least he had the balls to leave on an impulse.
This isn't a professional sport. It's a goddamned game. And a competition should be a spectacle that gamers take part in together out of passion built upon a solid foundation. Only here, now, - the foundation ISN'T the game...it's become eSports this, eSports that. All for eSports! I never thought I'd understand this point of view.
Stop trying to "professionalize" something that is, at its core, not professional. And if people are going to try to make a living playing games...don't act on a foundation of professionalism. Act on the proper foundation. The GAME. [...]
There could have been 1000 other ways to say good bye to Sc2 rather than doing it like this. U don't need to be professional to behave according to ur age... This is nothing he can be proud of. It's not about forfeitting itself... it's about how he did it and with what intention...
My problem with all of this isn't that he did forfeit his matches (that alone is bad too , but he has the right to do that ofc!), but more the way he did it. His proxy fails and his reaction is instantly to blame it on other factors. IMO naniwa is extremely childish and tbh he doesn't seem to be smart either. So yeah i won't miss him, it is just kinda sad that another rather skilled foreigner leaves the scene.
On March 17 2014 20:38 Sakray wrote: What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.
But nope, witchunt too stronk
People don´t blame for the forfeit itself. They blame him for fortifying while he could have given that place to someone more worthy with more passion to play in that tournament. They blame him for forfeiting like a child that throws temper tantrums. And the thing that he gets mad about is something he abused in the past. Ironically it wasn´t a problem back then. They blame him for avoiding a battle and deliver a good fight against all odds to leave something remarkable something that´s worthy to remember.
Good riddance! we wont miss such a disgrace! just wish I could be at the arena so I could boo and throw rotten tomatos and eggs at him on his way out. I hope he never returns
The good thing is that with this move he burned so many bridges that it will be hard for him to find a decent sponsorship/ team if he should feel the desire to go back to sc2.
On March 17 2014 20:38 Sakray wrote: What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.
But nope, witchunt too stronk
People don´t blame for the forfeit itself. They blame him for fortifying while he could have given that place to someone more worthy with more passion to play in that tournament. They blame him for forfeiting like a child that throws temper tantrums. And the thing that he gets mad about is something he abused in the past. Ironically it wasn´t a problem back then. They blame him for avoiding a battle and deliver a good fight against all odds to leave something remarkable something that´s worthy to remember.
Huh, what you mean abused in the past? Once you hear the crowd, you know you've made a mistake. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not intentional. How can you NOT use that information? At that point the crowd becomes part of the game.
If Nani didn't know about the soundproofing, how could he give his spot away in advance?
I think his forfeit is bullshit, but your argument is holed.
What a delicious scandal for someone who quit sc2 a while back- this thread has made for pretty interesting reading.
As ever, I will never understand the inevitable free-rights activists who go on condoning everything done by stupid/douchey progamers. Is there a sort of fetish for this kind of thing in particular?
I will remember Nani for his double ro8 appearance in the GSL. Scrolling down the respective liquepedia pages and seeing a swedish flag amongst the korean ones was refreshing. Too bad, if he doesn't care about how the community views him, then we will view him as a shitty BM-ing kid, which is really not far from the truth.
Naniwa protectors: You want freedom of speech, everyone-is-entitled-to-their-opinion, fine. Now please accept my opinion that Naniwa is simply a whiny kid, toxic for the scene, good riddance.
I don't understand how anyone can defend his behavior at all.
It was selfish and incredibly disrespectful to everyone involved.
Be it the opponent, the team, the sponsors, the viewers, the tournament organizer etc
He has no one else to blame at for people hating on him. Especially when the finals were played with non stop maingames and everyone was watching sc2 only.
On March 17 2014 20:38 Sakray wrote: What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.
But nope, witchunt too stronk
People don´t blame for the forfeit itself. They blame him for fortifying while he could have given that place to someone more worthy with more passion to play in that tournament. They blame him for forfeiting like a child that throws temper tantrums. And the thing that he gets mad about is something he abused in the past. Ironically it wasn´t a problem back then. They blame him for avoiding a battle and deliver a good fight against all odds to leave something remarkable something that´s worthy to remember.
Huh, what you mean abused in the past? Once you hear the crowd, you know you've made a mistake. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not intentional. How can you NOT use that information? At that point the crowd becomes part of the game.
If Nani didn't know about the soundproofing, how could he give his spot away in advance?
I think his forfeit is bullshit, but your argument is holed.
The argument is, he´s fine with himself using "the sound" but when others use it he calls bullshit. Where´s there a hole? o_O
On March 17 2014 20:38 Sakray wrote: What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.
But nope, witchunt too stronk
People don´t blame for the forfeit itself. They blame him for fortifying while he could have given that place to someone more worthy with more passion to play in that tournament. They blame him for forfeiting like a child that throws temper tantrums. And the thing that he gets mad about is something he abused in the past. Ironically it wasn´t a problem back then. They blame him for avoiding a battle and deliver a good fight against all odds to leave something remarkable something that´s worthy to remember.
Huh, what you mean abused in the past? Once you hear the crowd, you know you've made a mistake. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not intentional. How can you NOT use that information? At that point the crowd becomes part of the game.
If Nani didn't know about the soundproofing, how could he give his spot away in advance?
I think his forfeit is bullshit, but your argument is holed.
The argument is, he´s fine with himself using "the sound" but when others use it he calls bullshit. Where´s there a hole? o_O
edit: while polt doesn´t even used "the sound"
Nani never said he was ok with using sound from the audience. You're assuming that. He only said there was an issue with sound proofing, as pointed out by other players.
So, once again, he never "used it." It happened and he benefited from it. There's a difference.
Never liked Naniwa at all. Especially after he did something similar at GSL when he removed his hands from keyboard + mouse. Glad to hear he is finally leaving the scene. I never thought he was as good as people claim he is either, guess it was more of a foreign hope thing. In all honesty just in case he wants to comeback later down the road, I would ban his punk ass from attending IEM again.
On March 17 2014 20:38 Sakray wrote: What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.
But nope, witchunt too stronk
People don´t blame for the forfeit itself. They blame him for fortifying while he could have given that place to someone more worthy with more passion to play in that tournament. They blame him for forfeiting like a child that throws temper tantrums. And the thing that he gets mad about is something he abused in the past. Ironically it wasn´t a problem back then. They blame him for avoiding a battle and deliver a good fight against all odds to leave something remarkable something that´s worthy to remember.
Huh, what you mean abused in the past? Once you hear the crowd, you know you've made a mistake. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not intentional. How can you NOT use that information? At that point the crowd becomes part of the game.
If Nani didn't know about the soundproofing, how could he give his spot away in advance?
I think his forfeit is bullshit, but your argument is holed.
The argument is, he´s fine with himself using "the sound" but when others use it he calls bullshit. Where´s there a hole? o_O
edit: while polt doesn´t even used "the sound"
Nani never said he was ok with using sound from the audience. You're assuming that. He only said there was an issue with sound proofing, as pointed out by other players.
So, once again, he never "used it." It happened and he benefited from it. There's a difference.
Oh i don´t even need to "assume" that. He didn´t even had a problem to do that versus flash
On March 17 2014 20:38 Sakray wrote: What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.
But nope, witchunt too stronk
People don´t blame for the forfeit itself. They blame him for fortifying while he could have given that place to someone more worthy with more passion to play in that tournament. They blame him for forfeiting like a child that throws temper tantrums. And the thing that he gets mad about is something he abused in the past. Ironically it wasn´t a problem back then. They blame him for avoiding a battle and deliver a good fight against all odds to leave something remarkable something that´s worthy to remember.
Huh, what you mean abused in the past? Once you hear the crowd, you know you've made a mistake. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not intentional. How can you NOT use that information? At that point the crowd becomes part of the game.
If Nani didn't know about the soundproofing, how could he give his spot away in advance?
I think his forfeit is bullshit, but your argument is holed.
The argument is, he´s fine with himself using "the sound" but when others use it he calls bullshit. Where´s there a hole? o_O
edit: while polt doesn´t even used "the sound"
Nani never said he was ok with using sound from the audience. You're assuming that. He only said there was an issue with sound proofing, as pointed out by other players.
So, once again, he never "used it." It happened and he benefited from it. There's a difference.
Oh i don´t even need to "assume" that. He didn´t even had a problem to do that versus flash
Just because he used sound from the audience doesn't mean he INTENDED too or that he is OK with doing so. No fair player wants to use sound, but anyone will use it. Your opponent has the same luxuries. It's a fair playing field.
On March 17 2014 20:38 Sakray wrote: What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.
But nope, witchunt too stronk
People don´t blame for the forfeit itself. They blame him for fortifying while he could have given that place to someone more worthy with more passion to play in that tournament. They blame him for forfeiting like a child that throws temper tantrums. And the thing that he gets mad about is something he abused in the past. Ironically it wasn´t a problem back then. They blame him for avoiding a battle and deliver a good fight against all odds to leave something remarkable something that´s worthy to remember.
Huh, what you mean abused in the past? Once you hear the crowd, you know you've made a mistake. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not intentional. How can you NOT use that information? At that point the crowd becomes part of the game.
If Nani didn't know about the soundproofing, how could he give his spot away in advance?
I think his forfeit is bullshit, but your argument is holed.
The argument is, he´s fine with himself using "the sound" but when others use it he calls bullshit. Where´s there a hole? o_O
edit: while polt doesn´t even used "the sound"
Nani never said he was ok with using sound from the audience. You're assuming that. He only said there was an issue with sound proofing, as pointed out by other players.
So, once again, he never "used it." It happened and he benefited from it. There's a difference.
Oh i don´t even need to "assume" that. He didn´t even had a problem to do that versus flash
Just because he used sound from the audience doesn't mean he INTENDED too or that he is OK with doing so. No fair player wants to use sound, but anyone will use it. Your opponent has the same luxuries. It's a fair playing field.
Again, even if this becomes dull and i feel punked... nani uses it = no problem, he assumed(!) polt use it = throw tantrum.. Don´t know what´s there not to understand. If you want to fight some werd semantic battle that doesn´t have any value i´m out lol
On March 17 2014 20:38 Sakray wrote: What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.
But nope, witchunt too stronk
People don´t blame for the forfeit itself. They blame him for fortifying while he could have given that place to someone more worthy with more passion to play in that tournament. They blame him for forfeiting like a child that throws temper tantrums. And the thing that he gets mad about is something he abused in the past. Ironically it wasn´t a problem back then. They blame him for avoiding a battle and deliver a good fight against all odds to leave something remarkable something that´s worthy to remember.
Huh, what you mean abused in the past? Once you hear the crowd, you know you've made a mistake. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not intentional. How can you NOT use that information? At that point the crowd becomes part of the game.
If Nani didn't know about the soundproofing, how could he give his spot away in advance?
I think his forfeit is bullshit, but your argument is holed.
The argument is, he´s fine with himself using "the sound" but when others use it he calls bullshit. Where´s there a hole? o_O
edit: while polt doesn´t even used "the sound"
Nani never said he was ok with using sound from the audience. You're assuming that. He only said there was an issue with sound proofing, as pointed out by other players.
So, once again, he never "used it." It happened and he benefited from it. There's a difference.
Oh i don´t even need to "assume" that. He didn´t even had a problem to do that versus flash
Just because he used sound from the audience doesn't mean he INTENDED too or that he is OK with doing so. No fair player wants to use sound, but anyone will use it. Your opponent has the same luxuries. It's a fair playing field.
On March 17 2014 20:38 Sakray wrote: What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.
But nope, witchunt too stronk
People don´t blame for the forfeit itself. They blame him for fortifying while he could have given that place to someone more worthy with more passion to play in that tournament. They blame him for forfeiting like a child that throws temper tantrums. And the thing that he gets mad about is something he abused in the past. Ironically it wasn´t a problem back then. They blame him for avoiding a battle and deliver a good fight against all odds to leave something remarkable something that´s worthy to remember.
Huh, what you mean abused in the past? Once you hear the crowd, you know you've made a mistake. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not intentional. How can you NOT use that information? At that point the crowd becomes part of the game.
If Nani didn't know about the soundproofing, how could he give his spot away in advance?
I think his forfeit is bullshit, but your argument is holed.
The argument is, he´s fine with himself using "the sound" but when others use it he calls bullshit. Where´s there a hole? o_O
edit: while polt doesn´t even used "the sound"
Nani never said he was ok with using sound from the audience. You're assuming that. He only said there was an issue with sound proofing, as pointed out by other players.
So, once again, he never "used it." It happened and he benefited from it. There's a difference.
Oh i don´t even need to "assume" that. He didn´t even had a problem to do that versus flash
Just because he used sound from the audience doesn't mean he INTENDED too or that he is OK with doing so. No fair player wants to use sound, but anyone will use it. Your opponent has the same luxuries. It's a fair playing field.
Again, even if this becomes dull and i feel punked... nani uses it = no problem, he assumed(!) polt use it = throw tantrum.. Don´t know what´s there not to understand. If you want to fight some werd semantic battle that doesn´t have any value i´m out lol
The second part of your argument is a false assumption. "polt use it = throw tantrum.. "
Show me where Nani says he forfeited because Polt used it. He complained about sound proofing, not about Polt.
Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
On March 17 2014 20:38 Sakray wrote: What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.
But nope, witchunt too stronk
People don´t blame for the forfeit itself. They blame him for fortifying while he could have given that place to someone more worthy with more passion to play in that tournament. They blame him for forfeiting like a child that throws temper tantrums. And the thing that he gets mad about is something he abused in the past. Ironically it wasn´t a problem back then. They blame him for avoiding a battle and deliver a good fight against all odds to leave something remarkable something that´s worthy to remember.
Huh, what you mean abused in the past? Once you hear the crowd, you know you've made a mistake. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not intentional. How can you NOT use that information? At that point the crowd becomes part of the game.
If Nani didn't know about the soundproofing, how could he give his spot away in advance?
I think his forfeit is bullshit, but your argument is holed.
The argument is, he´s fine with himself using "the sound" but when others use it he calls bullshit. Where´s there a hole? o_O
edit: while polt doesn´t even used "the sound"
Nani never said he was ok with using sound from the audience. You're assuming that. He only said there was an issue with sound proofing, as pointed out by other players.
So, once again, he never "used it." It happened and he benefited from it. There's a difference.
Oh i don´t even need to "assume" that. He didn´t even had a problem to do that versus flash
Just because he used sound from the audience doesn't mean he INTENDED too or that he is OK with doing so. No fair player wants to use sound, but anyone will use it. Your opponent has the same luxuries. It's a fair playing field.
Again, even if this becomes dull and i feel punked... nani uses it = no problem, he assumed(!) polt use it = throw tantrum.. Don´t know what´s there not to understand. If you want to fight some werd semantic battle that doesn´t have any value i´m out lol
The second part of your argument is a false assumption. "polt use it = throw tantrum.. "
Show me where Nani says he forfeited because Polt used it. He complained about sound proofing, not about Polt.
Because he thought the proxy gate was scouted only due the audience? O_o
edit: At least that´s what i think triggered his sentence "xD so fun to play without soundproofing". And i doubt you´re able to convince me that this sentence wasn´t due to this.
On March 17 2014 20:38 Sakray wrote: What people seem to forget is that as a competitor he has the right to forfeit at any given moment for any reason. You can't blame him for that.
But nope, witchunt too stronk
People don´t blame for the forfeit itself. They blame him for fortifying while he could have given that place to someone more worthy with more passion to play in that tournament. They blame him for forfeiting like a child that throws temper tantrums. And the thing that he gets mad about is something he abused in the past. Ironically it wasn´t a problem back then. They blame him for avoiding a battle and deliver a good fight against all odds to leave something remarkable something that´s worthy to remember.
Huh, what you mean abused in the past? Once you hear the crowd, you know you've made a mistake. There's nothing you can do to avoid it. It's not intentional. How can you NOT use that information? At that point the crowd becomes part of the game.
If Nani didn't know about the soundproofing, how could he give his spot away in advance?
I think his forfeit is bullshit, but your argument is holed.
The argument is, he´s fine with himself using "the sound" but when others use it he calls bullshit. Where´s there a hole? o_O
edit: while polt doesn´t even used "the sound"
Nani never said he was ok with using sound from the audience. You're assuming that. He only said there was an issue with sound proofing, as pointed out by other players.
So, once again, he never "used it." It happened and he benefited from it. There's a difference.
Oh i don´t even need to "assume" that. He didn´t even had a problem to do that versus flash
Just because he used sound from the audience doesn't mean he INTENDED too or that he is OK with doing so. No fair player wants to use sound, but anyone will use it. Your opponent has the same luxuries. It's a fair playing field.
Again, even if this becomes dull and i feel punked... nani uses it = no problem, he assumed(!) polt use it = throw tantrum.. Don´t know what´s there not to understand. If you want to fight some werd semantic battle that doesn´t have any value i´m out lol
The second part of your argument is a false assumption. "polt use it = throw tantrum.. "
Show me where Nani says he forfeited because Polt used it. He complained about sound proofing, not about Polt.
Because he thought the proxy gate was scouted only due the audience? O_o
You make one assumption after another. While maybe...maybe that's true, he never said that. He heard the audience's reaction and that prompted his statement.
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
You should read my posts directed @ Nachtwind. He never intended to use it. It's not abuse.
As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility.
On March 18 2014 00:06 SC2Toastie wrote: TRaFFiC, maybe stop ignoring evidence and start arguing or admit you're a desperate faniwa and just get over it, please.
evidence of what? Yeah, I'm a fan of the players on a gaming site. Shoot me :D
What evidence? I am not a Naniwa fan, but I would think it self-evident that Naniwa heard the audience based on what he typed. That Polt would had scouted it anyways is irrelevent, to whatever asking of evidence you require.
I'm sure others have pointed this out, but as someone who watched this live, sound-proofing had nothing to do with Naniwa's proxy being scouted. Polt sent his SCV out of the base on a straight line through the natural with a second waypoint to start heading towards Naniwa's base. It was about as standard of a scouting path as I've ever seen. The crowd and announcers all started going "oooooOOOO" as the SCV's vision neared the proxy, and then the proxy was discovered. Polt never altered the SCV's initial path in response to the crowd noise, and would have successfully scouted the proxy even if it had been completely silent.
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
You should read my posts directed @ Nachtwind. He never intended to use it. It's not abuse.
As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility.
Did Polt intend to use it? There were only 2 players playing this game. And if there was a soundproof issue then the only one that could have had an advantage in this case (Naniwa proxying) would have been Polt. So why is Naniwa complaining? Or are u going to say that he wasn't complaing and we are just assuming this, cuz he never said "I complain"?
"As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility." Then why did he in this case? Why? I think u know the answer....
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
You should read my posts directed @ Nachtwind. He never intended to use it. It's not abuse.
As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility.
Did Polt intend to use it? There were only 2 players playing this game. And if there was a soundproof issue then the only one that could have had an advantage in this case (Naniwa proxying) would have been Polt. So why is Naniwa complaining? Or are u going to say that he wasn't complaing and we are just assuming this, cuz he never said "I complain"?
"As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility." Then why did he in this case? Why? I think u know the answer....
It's obvious you didn't read my posts because I literally just answered both questions.
1)So why is Naniwa complaining?
Me: "Show me where Nani says he forfeited because Polt used it. He complained about sound proofing, not about Polt. "
2)Then why did he complain in this case?
Me: "Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. "
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
You should read my posts directed @ Nachtwind. He never intended to use it. It's not abuse.
As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility.
Did Polt intend to use it? There were only 2 players playing this game. And if there was a soundproof issue then the only one that could have had an advantage in this case (Naniwa proxying) would have been Polt. So why is Naniwa complaining? Or are u going to say that he wasn't complaing and we are just assuming this, cuz he never said "I complain"?
"As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility." Then why did he in this case? Why? I think u know the answer....
It's obvious you didn't read my posts because I literally just answered both questions.
1)So why is Naniwa complaining?
Me: "Show me where Nani says he forfeited because Polt used it. He complained about sound proofing, not about Polt. "
2)Then why did he complain in this case?
Me: "Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. "
I agree he never complained about Polt. He complained about soundproofing.. ok. Where did that happen and why would u complain? He said "xD so fun to play without soundproofing". How are u certain that he means his match vs Polt? Pls... this is getting ridiculous.
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
You should read my posts directed @ Nachtwind. He never intended to use it. It's not abuse.
As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility.
Did Polt intend to use it? There were only 2 players playing this game. And if there was a soundproof issue then the only one that could have had an advantage in this case (Naniwa proxying) would have been Polt. So why is Naniwa complaining? Or are u going to say that he wasn't complaing and we are just assuming this, cuz he never said "I complain"?
"As a player, you don't need to speak out against bad conditions every time they present themselves. That's not your responsibility." Then why did he in this case? Why? I think u know the answer....
It's obvious you didn't read my posts because I literally just answered both questions.
1)So why is Naniwa complaining?
Me: "Show me where Nani says he forfeited because Polt used it. He complained about sound proofing, not about Polt. "
2)Then why did he complain in this case?
Me: "Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing. "
1) Following your logic there are 2 possibilities why he forfeited. Because of soundproofing overall, or because he assumes he lost because of it ("Polt used it"). Past actions show that he doesn't forfeit when there is a soundproofing issues - so this isn't an option. Of course it's entirely possible that he changes his opinion depending on what benefits him the most. Which is what people call a sore loser / hypocrite.
2) Did you watch the final? Same booths, lots of cheese. So it's certainly possible to cheese through the tournament with the level of soundproofing the tournament offered.
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall a player going out of his way after a match to fess up that he gained knowledge due to bad sound proofing -- or if a player did, it's an extremely rare occurrence. A player might acknowledge it if theyre asked in an interview, but no one or very few are going to go out of their way unprovoked. And no one is going to blame them.
At any rate you're making it sound like Nani is maliciously abusing the lack of sound proofing. It's not his prerogative to report it every time it happens. Theres nothing wrong with him reporting it for his own gain. If there really was an issue with sound proofing, it's the fault of the tournament organizers for putting the players in that position. If you're going to hold Nani to that level of credibility and transparency you're going to be sorely disappointed with the rest of the sc2 scene.
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall a player going out of his way after a match to fess up that he gained knowledge due to bad sound proofing -- or if a player did, it's an extremely rare occurrence. A player might acknowledge it if theyre asked in an interview, but no one or very few are going to go out of their way unprovoked. And no one is going to blame them.
At any rate you're making it sound like Nani is maliciously abusing the lack of sound proofing. It's not his prerogative to report it every time it happens. Theres nothing wrong with him reporting it for his own gain. If there really was an issue with sound proofing, it's the fault of the tournament organizers for putting the players in that position. If you're going to hold Nani to that level of credibility and transparency you're going to be sorely disappointed with the rest of the sc2 scene.
The whole discussion is about Naniwa forfeiting with his complain and leaving - not against the rules, but in a disrespectful fashion. What I just don't like that he complained about sth he apparently abused himself once. I don't know Naniwa, I just see his bahaviour and his playstyle. And his behaviour wasn't very appropriate very often, just like recently. Ofc the tournament organizers have to take of this. But no one is responsible for Naniwas behaving...
Live events are live events. You don't play from the comfort of your own home, you don't have ideal conditions, and there are constraints on the event organizers. If you're going to do world's most telegraphed proxy gate on the main stage, you need to take this into account. And anyway, how exactly would they go about soundproofing a small booth in front of an audience of thousands? Maybe they should ask the audience not to cheer? Or create a futuristic vacuum bubble for the progamers to play in, complete with oxygen masks and pressure suits?
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall a player going out of his way after a match to fess up that he gained knowledge due to bad sound proofing -- or if a player did, it's an extremely rare occurrence. A player might acknowledge it if theyre asked in an interview, but no one or very few are going to go out of their way unprovoked. And no one is going to blame them.
At any rate you're making it sound like Nani is maliciously abusing the lack of sound proofing. It's not his prerogative to report it every time it happens. Theres nothing wrong with him reporting it for his own gain. If there really was an issue with sound proofing, it's the fault of the tournament organizers for putting the players in that position. If you're going to hold Nani to that level of credibility and transparency you're going to be sorely disappointed with the rest of the sc2 scene.
The whole discussion is about Naniwa forfeiting with his complain and leaving - not against the rules, but in a disrespectful fashion. What I just don't like that he complained about sth he apparently abused himself once. I don't know Naniwa, I just see his bahaviour and his playstyle. And his behaviour wasn't very appropriate very often, just like recently. Ofc the tournament organizers have to take of this. But no one is responsible for Naniwas behaving...
Is the discussion about him forfeiting disrespectfully, or the integrity of sound proof abuse among players? You can dislike him for his attitude. Holding the match-up to complain about sound-proofing was pretty excessive. But don't hold him to such a high expectation without holding that same expectation to every other player who'd probably do the same in his situation (in reference to getting an advantage due to bad sound proofing). Naniwa is responsible for his behavior, but he's not responsible for the quality of booths he plays in. If he wants to make himself look like an ass over an issue other players probably aren't willing to make themselves look like asses over, again, thats his perogative. He's a player and it's obviously in his own interest, just as it's in any player's best interest.
(im assuming polt would have scouted the proxy regardless of the audience noise)
So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote: So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote: So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
Dafuq? So there's not even a consensus on whether this issue exist in the first place? Or maybe Naniwa has better hearing than most people?
I do believe there are enough cheeses overall in in the semi-finals/finals of major tournaments(with large audiences) to support the idea that soundproofing should not be an issue. But there are also tidbits here and there by various progamers of the opposite. Perhaps it's just a matter of Naniwa having more fans and therefore the sound becomes louder when he cheeses?
On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote: So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
Humans have 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. This is totally wrong. Startale Life tweeted "angry iem" and "very big sound ; i want open brackets stage." I heard rumours of other players talking out as well. Do you REALLY think Nani would write to his 40k followers a blatant lie, that Polt COULD hear the crowd. Polt could easily respond saying it's not true.
To be clear, I'm fine with it. I'd rather have big crowds showing up and the players deal with it.
On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote: So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
Humans have 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. This is totally wrong. Startale Life tweeted "angry iem" and "very big sound ; i want open brackets stage." I heard rumours of other players talking out as well. Do you REALLY think Nani would write to his 40k followers a blatant lie, that Polt COULD hear the crowd. Polt could easily respond saying it's not true.
To be clear, I'm fine with it. I'd rather have big crowds showing up and the players deal with it.
People did and do tell a blatant lie to more than 40k people before so I don't really think that this is really an argument. There are no conclusive evidences to support that there is a soundproof issue at the event.
You said you heard a rumor about other player talking out about this issue, but noting came out to public so I hold my doubt about that rumor for now, unless people start to come out and complain openly, like what many players did when GSL has soundproofing problem. Until then, the majority of "circumstantial" evidence seems to point out that there is no soundproofing issue.
On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote: So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
Humans have 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. This is totally wrong. Startale Life tweeted "angry iem" and "very big sound ; i want open brackets stage." I heard rumours of other players talking out as well. Do you REALLY think Nani would write to his 40k followers a blatant lie, that Polt COULD hear the crowd. Polt could easily respond saying it's not true.
To be clear, I'm fine with it. I'd rather have big crowds showing up and the players deal with it.
People did and do tell a blatant lie to more than 40k people before so I don't really think that this is really an argument. There are no conclusive evidences to support that there is a soundproof issue at the event.
You said you heard a rumor about other player talking out about this issue, but noting came out to public so I hold my doubt about that rumor for now, unless people start to come out and complain openly, like what many players did when GSL has soundproofing problem. Until then, the majority of "circumstantial" evidence seems to point out that there is no soundproofing issue.
I don't understand your post. You say "nothing came out in public," but I just told you Life tweeted. You realize Twitter is public? https://twitter.com/Startale_Life I shouldn't have to do your homework for you. Do some research before making ridiculous claims. If you're calling the players liars, there's not much I can do to help you. Other than to tell you, Life and others have no reason to lie.
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall a player going out of his way after a match to fess up that he gained knowledge due to bad sound proofing -- or if a player did, it's an extremely rare occurrence. A player might acknowledge it if theyre asked in an interview, but no one or very few are going to go out of their way unprovoked. And no one is going to blame them.
At any rate you're making it sound like Nani is maliciously abusing the lack of sound proofing. It's not his prerogative to report it every time it happens. Theres nothing wrong with him reporting it for his own gain. If there really was an issue with sound proofing, it's the fault of the tournament organizers for putting the players in that position. If you're going to hold Nani to that level of credibility and transparency you're going to be sorely disappointed with the rest of the sc2 scene.
Way way back in the GSL Open, Jinro admitted in a post-game interview that he figured Idra was up to something based on the fact that he heard something from the crowd.
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall a player going out of his way after a match to fess up that he gained knowledge due to bad sound proofing -- or if a player did, it's an extremely rare occurrence. A player might acknowledge it if theyre asked in an interview, but no one or very few are going to go out of their way unprovoked. And no one is going to blame them.
At any rate you're making it sound like Nani is maliciously abusing the lack of sound proofing. It's not his prerogative to report it every time it happens. Theres nothing wrong with him reporting it for his own gain. If there really was an issue with sound proofing, it's the fault of the tournament organizers for putting the players in that position. If you're going to hold Nani to that level of credibility and transparency you're going to be sorely disappointed with the rest of the sc2 scene.
Way way back in the GSL Open, Jinro admitted in a post-game interview that he figured Idra was up to something based on the fact that he heard something from the crowd.
On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote: So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
Humans have 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. This is totally wrong. Startale Life tweeted "angry iem" and "very big sound ; i want open brackets stage." I heard rumours of other players talking out as well. Do you REALLY think Nani would write to his 40k followers a blatant lie, that Polt COULD hear the crowd. Polt could easily respond saying it's not true.
To be clear, I'm fine with it. I'd rather have big crowds showing up and the players deal with it.
People did and do tell a blatant lie to more than 40k people before so I don't really think that this is really an argument. There are no conclusive evidences to support that there is a soundproof issue at the event.
You said you heard a rumor about other player talking out about this issue, but noting came out to public so I hold my doubt about that rumor for now, unless people start to come out and complain openly, like what many players did when GSL has soundproofing problem. Until then, the majority of "circumstantial" evidence seems to point out that there is no soundproofing issue.
I don't understand your post. You say "nothing came out in public," but I just told you Life tweeted. You realize Twitter is public? https://twitter.com/Startale_Life I shouldn't have to do your homework for you. Do some research before making ridiculous claims. If you're calling the players liars, there's not much I can do to help you. Other than to tell you, Life and others have no reason to lie.
When I said "nothing came out in public" I also mean "officially" as in addressing the problem directly to ESL when they asked the players whether they have problems or not. Or came out later to officially say about problem.
I read Life's tweet but I am not sure whether it is related or not due to it is being posted on 14th March, which he did not play on that date (his match was on 15/03). The date on twitter might be incorrectly for me due to different time zone though.
IIRC, Life was supposed to play on the 14th, but for some reason they decided to roll over the final RO16 match (Life vs Rogue) for the next day. I remember Twitch chat going crazy for a little bit when the stream overlay dropped the news on everyone.
It seems likely that the decision had something to do with Life's response to the noise, but maybe the venue was running short on time and decided to pack it up early? Can't really say for sure.
On March 18 2014 01:40 loft wrote: Kaelaris put it best,"it's naniwas choice whether to forfeit or not."
He obviously knew that he had no chance and was emotional about getting proxy scouted.
its a fairly simple, yet stupid, situation first off, everybody knows Naniwa is a whiny kid, he acts like he's 12 years old. second off, Starcraft tournaments have had soundproofing issues FOR YEARS NOW....its not that freakin' hard! and finally, players that consistently cheese aren't deserving of respect, to f*ck around with cheese-rushes in high-end tournaments is disrespectful not only to themselves, opponents, and organizers, but most importantly to the fans
On March 18 2014 01:40 loft wrote: Kaelaris put it best,"it's naniwas choice whether to forfeit or not."
He obviously knew that he had no chance and was emotional about getting proxy scouted.
its a fairly simple, yet stupid, situation first off, everybody knows Naniwa is a whiny kid, he acts like he's 12 years old. second off, Starcraft tournaments have had soundproofing issues FOR YEARS NOW....its not that freakin' hard! and finally, players that consistently cheese aren't deserving of respect, to f*ck around with cheese-rushes in high-end tournaments is disrespectful not only to themselves, opponents, and organizers, but most importantly to the fans
On March 18 2014 01:40 loft wrote: Kaelaris put it best,"it's naniwas choice whether to forfeit or not."
He obviously knew that he had no chance and was emotional about getting proxy scouted.
its a fairly simple, yet stupid, situation first off, everybody knows Naniwa is a whiny kid, he acts like he's 12 years old. second off, Starcraft tournaments have had soundproofing issues FOR YEARS NOW....its not that freakin' hard! and finally, players that consistently cheese aren't deserving of respect, to f*ck around with cheese-rushes in high-end tournaments is disrespectful not only to themselves, opponents, and organizers, but most importantly to the fans
I was with him until he said cheesing is disrespectful to the fans lol. fans in general love a risky allin build in a series.
On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote: So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
Humans have 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. This is totally wrong. Startale Life tweeted "angry iem" and "very big sound ; i want open brackets stage." I heard rumours of other players talking out as well. Do you REALLY think Nani would write to his 40k followers a blatant lie, that Polt COULD hear the crowd. Polt could easily respond saying it's not true.
To be clear, I'm fine with it. I'd rather have big crowds showing up and the players deal with it.
People did and do tell a blatant lie to more than 40k people before so I don't really think that this is really an argument. There are no conclusive evidences to support that there is a soundproof issue at the event.
You said you heard a rumor about other player talking out about this issue, but noting came out to public so I hold my doubt about that rumor for now, unless people start to come out and complain openly, like what many players did when GSL has soundproofing problem. Until then, the majority of "circumstantial" evidence seems to point out that there is no soundproofing issue.
I don't understand your post. You say "nothing came out in public," but I just told you Life tweeted. You realize Twitter is public? https://twitter.com/Startale_Life I shouldn't have to do your homework for you. Do some research before making ridiculous claims. If you're calling the players liars, there's not much I can do to help you. Other than to tell you, Life and others have no reason to lie.
When I said "nothing came out in public" I also mean "officially" as in addressing the problem directly to ESL when they asked the players whether they have problems or not. Or came out later to officially say about problem.
I read Life's tweet but I am not sure whether it is related or not due to it is being posted on 14th March, which he did not play on that date (his match was on 15/03). The date on twitter might be incorrectly for me due to different time zone though.
Life's tweet had nothing to do with this. Life vs Rogue was initially not going to be on the main stage, so it wasn't going to be played in the booth. The area where they wanted them to play was apparently very noisy, so he complained about it. In the end they postponed the match to the next day and played it on stage in the booths, and no one complained about the soundproofing.
On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote: So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
Humans have 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. This is totally wrong. Startale Life tweeted "angry iem" and "very big sound ; i want open brackets stage." I heard rumours of other players talking out as well. Do you REALLY think Nani would write to his 40k followers a blatant lie, that Polt COULD hear the crowd. Polt could easily respond saying it's not true.
To be clear, I'm fine with it. I'd rather have big crowds showing up and the players deal with it.
People did and do tell a blatant lie to more than 40k people before so I don't really think that this is really an argument. There are no conclusive evidences to support that there is a soundproof issue at the event.
You said you heard a rumor about other player talking out about this issue, but noting came out to public so I hold my doubt about that rumor for now, unless people start to come out and complain openly, like what many players did when GSL has soundproofing problem. Until then, the majority of "circumstantial" evidence seems to point out that there is no soundproofing issue.
I don't understand your post. You say "nothing came out in public," but I just told you Life tweeted. You realize Twitter is public? https://twitter.com/Startale_Life I shouldn't have to do your homework for you. Do some research before making ridiculous claims. If you're calling the players liars, there's not much I can do to help you. Other than to tell you, Life and others have no reason to lie.
When I said "nothing came out in public" I also mean "officially" as in addressing the problem directly to ESL when they asked the players whether they have problems or not. Or came out later to officially say about problem.
I read Life's tweet but I am not sure whether it is related or not due to it is being posted on 14th March, which he did not play on that date (his match was on 15/03). The date on twitter might be incorrectly for me due to different time zone though.
Life's tweet had nothing to do with this. Life vs Rogue was initially not going to be on the main stage, so it wasn't going to be played in the booth. The area where they wanted them to play was apparently very noisy, so he complained about it. In the end they postponed the match to the next day and played it on stage in the booths, and no one complained about the soundproofing.
Yeah, that's what I think too. So pretty much no one complained about the soundproofing except Naniwa.
On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote: So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
Humans have 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. This is totally wrong. Startale Life tweeted "angry iem" and "very big sound ; i want open brackets stage." I heard rumours of other players talking out as well. Do you REALLY think Nani would write to his 40k followers a blatant lie, that Polt COULD hear the crowd. Polt could easily respond saying it's not true.
To be clear, I'm fine with it. I'd rather have big crowds showing up and the players deal with it.
People did and do tell a blatant lie to more than 40k people before so I don't really think that this is really an argument. There are no conclusive evidences to support that there is a soundproof issue at the event.
You said you heard a rumor about other player talking out about this issue, but noting came out to public so I hold my doubt about that rumor for now, unless people start to come out and complain openly, like what many players did when GSL has soundproofing problem. Until then, the majority of "circumstantial" evidence seems to point out that there is no soundproofing issue.
I don't understand your post. You say "nothing came out in public," but I just told you Life tweeted. You realize Twitter is public? https://twitter.com/Startale_Life I shouldn't have to do your homework for you. Do some research before making ridiculous claims. If you're calling the players liars, there's not much I can do to help you. Other than to tell you, Life and others have no reason to lie.
When I said "nothing came out in public" I also mean "officially" as in addressing the problem directly to ESL when they asked the players whether they have problems or not. Or came out later to officially say about problem.
I read Life's tweet but I am not sure whether it is related or not due to it is being posted on 14th March, which he did not play on that date (his match was on 15/03). The date on twitter might be incorrectly for me due to different time zone though.
Life's tweet had nothing to do with this. Life vs Rogue was initially not going to be on the main stage, so it wasn't going to be played in the booth. The area where they wanted them to play was apparently very noisy, so he complained about it. In the end they postponed the match to the next day and played it on stage in the booths, and no one complained about the soundproofing.
yep, this is correct. Life tweeted that he wanted the main stage as well(that same tweet). It had nothing to do with soundproofing and such. Also, as mentioned, other players haven't mentioned much on this sound issue.
This leads me to believe that he used it as an excuse to forfeit his matches. It's too bad though. I opened the stream to see what's up and such and knew he was retiring(I think lol) and just happened to open it as Polt was building the bunker so I saw what transpired. He should've just played his games, lost 0-3 in decent fashion then walked out and bowed or did something to thank the fans considering he's retiring. I think most people would've greatly increased their opinion of him, he would've gotten a lot of cheers instead of the booing and wouldn't have had to face the backlash meaning if he returns, most would want him back and such. Instead, he ended up imo being disrespectful to his opponent and everyone else. Either way, best of luck to him!
On March 17 2014 23:55 Phaenoman wrote: Abusing the sound and not mentioning a word, but having a disadvantage in another game where ur opponent uses it and then complaining about it... this is just stupid and proves the lack of sportsmanship. I have to agree with Nachtwind here. What u say makes no sense to me, TRaFFIC.
So, according to you, every single time there are "bad" playing conditions the player needs to complain and/or forfeit. Otherwise, they will never be able to complain again?
Nani was playing LOL the night before. He wanted to cheese his way through the tournament. Hard to do without soundproofing.
No, according to me Naniwa has been abusing this situation. And now that it worked against him in the recent match he started complaining about it. Why didn't he mention this vs Flash? Why now, when he is at a disadvantage?
I could be wrong, but I don't ever recall a player going out of his way after a match to fess up that he gained knowledge due to bad sound proofing -- or if a player did, it's an extremely rare occurrence. A player might acknowledge it if theyre asked in an interview, but no one or very few are going to go out of their way unprovoked. And no one is going to blame them.
At any rate you're making it sound like Nani is maliciously abusing the lack of sound proofing. It's not his prerogative to report it every time it happens. Theres nothing wrong with him reporting it for his own gain. If there really was an issue with sound proofing, it's the fault of the tournament organizers for putting the players in that position. If you're going to hold Nani to that level of credibility and transparency you're going to be sorely disappointed with the rest of the sc2 scene.
Way way back in the GSL Open, Jinro admitted in a post-game interview that he figured Idra was up to something based on the fact that he heard something from the crowd.
It's difficult for players to complain and poo poo over the event especially when its running. Its just bad politics for everyone involved and more often than not there is a sense of peer pressure to play along and accept these issues. I know, I've been to a number of tournaments and sat in the booths with the headsets and you can hear music and the muffled crowd especially if a players sounds aren't high and without music.
Its pretty much impossible to have a full sound proof booth without changing air pressure and minimizing vibrations. Alternative is to play negative noise but hugely expensive to do and I'm not sure it's feasible.
Now I believe Naniwai when he says there were sound issues but
Naniwai's decision to forfeit was a huge gamble and walking out on stage like that made it worse. We know he didn't prepare and we also know he wanted out of this game after IEM so the sound issue is pretty much a saving face excuse which backfired and even though I believe him on that issue what he doesn't realize is that if he had won it are we to believe he would make the same comments? probably not.
This exit probably tops IdrA's from the game by quite a bit. Thanks for the stories Naniwai!
IEM didn't even have booths back in the early days and bo
On March 18 2014 15:46 baubo wrote: So what's the reason for all the soundproof issues at tournaments again? Is it really that costly to build a booth that can withstand the sound of a large audience?
No one else complained about the soundproof issue and the staffs even tested the booth afterward and the soundproof worked fine. sOs is not even fazed to use the same kind of proxy in his finals too. I am not sure whether we can really take Naniwa's word about this issue.
Humans have 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason. This is totally wrong. Startale Life tweeted "angry iem" and "very big sound ; i want open brackets stage." I heard rumours of other players talking out as well. Do you REALLY think Nani would write to his 40k followers a blatant lie, that Polt COULD hear the crowd. Polt could easily respond saying it's not true.
To be clear, I'm fine with it. I'd rather have big crowds showing up and the players deal with it.
People did and do tell a blatant lie to more than 40k people before so I don't really think that this is really an argument. There are no conclusive evidences to support that there is a soundproof issue at the event.
You said you heard a rumor about other player talking out about this issue, but noting came out to public so I hold my doubt about that rumor for now, unless people start to come out and complain openly, like what many players did when GSL has soundproofing problem. Until then, the majority of "circumstantial" evidence seems to point out that there is no soundproofing issue.
I don't understand your post. You say "nothing came out in public," but I just told you Life tweeted. You realize Twitter is public? https://twitter.com/Startale_Life I shouldn't have to do your homework for you. Do some research before making ridiculous claims. If you're calling the players liars, there's not much I can do to help you. Other than to tell you, Life and others have no reason to lie.
When I said "nothing came out in public" I also mean "officially" as in addressing the problem directly to ESL when they asked the players whether they have problems or not. Or came out later to officially say about problem.
I read Life's tweet but I am not sure whether it is related or not due to it is being posted on 14th March, which he did not play on that date (his match was on 15/03). The date on twitter might be incorrectly for me due to different time zone though.
Life's tweet had nothing to do with this. Life vs Rogue was initially not going to be on the main stage, so it wasn't going to be played in the booth. The area where they wanted them to play was apparently very noisy, so he complained about it. In the end they postponed the match to the next day and played it on stage in the booths, and no one complained about the soundproofing.
yep, this is correct. Life tweeted that he wanted the main stage as well(that same tweet). It had nothing to do with soundproofing and such. Also, as mentioned, other players haven't mentioned much on this sound issue.
This leads me to believe that he used it as an excuse to forfeit his matches. It's too bad though. I opened the stream to see what's up and such and knew he was retiring(I think lol) and just happened to open it as Polt was building the bunker so I saw what transpired. He should've just played his games, lost 0-3 in decent fashion then walked out and bowed or did something to thank the fans considering he's retiring. I think most people would've greatly increased their opinion of him, he would've gotten a lot of cheers instead of the booing and wouldn't have had to face the backlash meaning if he returns, most would want him back and such. Instead, he ended up imo being disrespectful to his opponent and everyone else. Either way, best of luck to him!
On March 18 2014 01:40 loft wrote: Kaelaris put it best,"it's naniwas choice whether to forfeit or not."
He obviously knew that he had no chance and was emotional about getting proxy scouted.
its a fairly simple, yet stupid, situation first off, everybody knows Naniwa is a whiny kid, he acts like he's 12 years old. second off, Starcraft tournaments have had soundproofing issues FOR YEARS NOW....its not that freakin' hard! and finally, players that consistently cheese aren't deserving of respect, to f*ck around with cheese-rushes in high-end tournaments is disrespectful not only to themselves, opponents, and organizers, but most importantly to the fans
Yeah, sOs was incredibly disrespectful to every single person in esports for cheesing two times in a row vs herO in the finals. He's not worthy of the first place. Shame on him.
On March 18 2014 01:40 loft wrote: Kaelaris put it best,"it's naniwas choice whether to forfeit or not."
He obviously knew that he had no chance and was emotional about getting proxy scouted.
its a fairly simple, yet stupid, situation first off, everybody knows Naniwa is a whiny kid, he acts like he's 12 years old. second off, Starcraft tournaments have had soundproofing issues FOR YEARS NOW....its not that freakin' hard! and finally, players that consistently cheese aren't deserving of respect, to f*ck around with cheese-rushes in high-end tournaments is disrespectful not only to themselves, opponents, and organizers, but most importantly to the fans
Yeah, sOs was incredibly disrespectful to every single person in esports for cheesing two times in a row vs herO in the finals. He's not worthy of the first place. Shame on him.
Yep. 100,000 dollar bills ya'll.
Shame doesn't even enter the equation if I'm in his shoes.
On March 18 2014 01:40 loft wrote: Kaelaris put it best,"it's naniwas choice whether to forfeit or not."
He obviously knew that he had no chance and was emotional about getting proxy scouted.
its a fairly simple, yet stupid, situation first off, everybody knows Naniwa is a whiny kid, he acts like he's 12 years old. second off, Starcraft tournaments have had soundproofing issues FOR YEARS NOW....its not that freakin' hard! and finally, players that consistently cheese aren't deserving of respect, to f*ck around with cheese-rushes in high-end tournaments is disrespectful not only to themselves, opponents, and organizers, but most importantly to the fans
Cheese itself is not the issue in the slightest, and is not a measure of respect. It's just a tool. What isn't deserving of respect is stupid childish demeanor, disgusting and for which he should be publicly "crucified" for the longest time. I never liked him, mostly because that idea of "personality" repulses me instead of being interesting.
I am still waiting for a response from Alliance. Bottom line: This is unacceptable. The defense he gets blows my mind!!! I don't have to be an "anti-fan" to think what Naniwa did was wrong on SO many levels. Grow up Naniwa. You won't be missed
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/iem/wc2014/naniback.jpg)
it shouldn't have ended like this.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pfp0eqG.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jT0UJrK.png)
![[image loading]](http://fireden.net/4chan/images.4chan.org//vg/src/1361231755179.jpg)
