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On March 15 2014 18:58 wptlzkwjd wrote: I'm sure the sponsors are really happy with Naniwa having sent him over there so he could proxy gate and forfeit.
It was IEM who paid for the trip and not [A] sponsors?
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On March 15 2014 18:21 hariooo wrote: Hey guys I think Naniwa's behaviour is disgusting so I'm going to make jokes about real mental illnesses. /s I was being sincere.
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On March 15 2014 17:52 Glorfindel! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 15:09 MVega wrote:On March 15 2014 14:58 Nirel wrote: I can't believe people are still defending him, I wonder what he has to do for people to stop making excuses for him. Swedish pride too strong on the internet. I think the only thing that might rival it is an American defending an American. And I say that as a person who has been in both places and is friends with a great many people from both. I've never known two groups of people that are so amazingly alike aside from a handful of very obvious differences. So yeah he'll always have defenders even though he totally seems to be doing everything possible to scare them off. I am from Sweden and there is no player i dislike more out there than Naniwa... O.o This whole situation is so stupid according to me: 1 - Polt already had his SCVs scouting setThere was not way Polt scouted like he did reacting to the noise from the crowd. He had already set the scouting pattern for the SCV (it is very obvious since the casters even displays the set trip for it). 2 - What was IEM suppoed to do anyway?You can never give a regame for what happend. If so, anyone could make proxies every game and each time they got scouted they would complain about the crowd. Proxying would turn out into something risk-free. If I dont remember very wrong, you are always able to feel the vibrations from the crowd through all the covers. I mean, they could make them play from New York if they want to be safe. Would be fun, aight? Well you could tell the crowd to STFU as someone in this thread suggested since they do that in golf and tennis. Had that not been really fun tournaments to visit? Everyone sitting quiet, being afraid to upset Nani in the booth? I think everyone prefers the arena atmosphere - with perhaps a few Nanifans excluded today. 3 - Naniwa if anyone has no moral right to complainWhen playing vs Flash on MLG - Naniwa clearly had no shame in his body turning his scouting probe around when the crowd reacted to him missing Flashs proxy barracks. You find it hereTo Sumarize - This is what happends when everyone babysits a childWith nations wars coming up Naniwa did some not really classy moves shutting both Miniraiser and Thorzain out of the team. Instantly the Swedish manager and some other quite high profiled persons in Swedish Esport ride out to his protection because "he is the star and he can do whatever he wants". When you again, and again, get told that you can do what you want because you are the best at home it wont really strenght your attitude. It will make things like this happend - Naniwa clearly thought he could do whatever he wanted at IEM aswell but nobody actually got impressed this time. Nobody is riding out to answer his cries for justice. There he stands alone, looking like a lone fool. I have said it for a long time - Naniwas attitude will never be accepted the moment that he is no longer clearly the best non-korean. With that in mind, we should not accept his attitude just because he happends to be a good starcraft player. That itself never gives you the right to act as you want. Neither gives it the best doctor at the hospital the right to call the patiences idiots, morons and a stupid community. You would never accept that at a normal work and I dont think we should accept Naniwa acting as he do either.
Pretty much said everything right there. Also: I just rewatched the VOD and noticed that Artosis & Apollo are trying not to laugh as Naniwa wrote into the ingame chat. ^^
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On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: Sorry dude, there would be players even without *the players", that because almost every fan is also a player.
Its like football, or any sport for that matter, all active players could retire or whatever this very day and you know what, tomorrow there would still be football. The "players" you talk about are like the top of an Iceberg, they are the "best" right now and the ones competing. But if they retired there would be a huge line of competetive players behind just waiting for their chance. This is'nt about the top players, this is about players in general. The community treats players as their servants, not as their partners. The players play this game, because it is fun for them and because it is their job, not because they view themselves as entertainers of the community. Some do and that brings them extra-support, but as I said, that is extra. It is not a players duty, to do whatever he can to entertain the community. And yeah, ofc. there would be replacements, since there are a lot of players, but you can´t argue, that it is also in the communities intrest, that we can watch herO vs Hyun instead of avilo vs destiny.
On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: A player like Naniwa kan compete like he does because he gets sponsored, he gets sponsored because companies believe that having him wear their logos and represent their company will increase their sales as good marketing. Bad publicity can still be good marketing but its a limit to that as well as demonstrated by the Idra case.
Any sponsor would be glad to exchange an investment that isn't paying off for one that would pay off. Naniwa doesn't owe us anything, we don't owe Naniwa anything. But you know what, Nani fucking owe Alliance for all the team has done for him and he also owes IEM. Naniwa said he doesn't give a fuck about SC2 at the moment but still accepts an invitation to poland, free hotel and a chance at winning 100k. He owes IEM that he sticks to his bloody side of the deal in accepting that spot and that would be that he plays. He could lose, he could not even try if he wanted to but he should have played those games, he owed that not to me, not to the community but to his team and to IEM. I can see that being a valid point, and I would accept it, if IEM/Alliance would complain about it. But AFAIK, most people complaining in this thread are neither ESL officials nor Allinace staff members.
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On March 15 2014 19:22 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: Sorry dude, there would be players even without *the players", that because almost every fan is also a player.
Its like football, or any sport for that matter, all active players could retire or whatever this very day and you know what, tomorrow there would still be football. The "players" you talk about are like the top of an Iceberg, they are the "best" right now and the ones competing. But if they retired there would be a huge line of competetive players behind just waiting for their chance. This is'nt about the top players, this is about players in general. The community treats players as their servants, not as their partners. The players play this game, because it is fun for them and because it is their job, not because they view themselves as entertainers of the community. Some do and that brings them extra-support, but as I said, that is extra. It is not a players duty, to do whatever he can to entertain the community. And yeah, ofc. there would be replacements, since there are a lot of players, but you can´t argue, that it is also in the communities intrest, that we can watch herO vs Hyun instead of avilo vs destiny. Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: A player like Naniwa kan compete like he does because he gets sponsored, he gets sponsored because companies believe that having him wear their logos and represent their company will increase their sales as good marketing. Bad publicity can still be good marketing but its a limit to that as well as demonstrated by the Idra case.
Any sponsor would be glad to exchange an investment that isn't paying off for one that would pay off. Naniwa doesn't owe us anything, we don't owe Naniwa anything. But you know what, Nani fucking owe Alliance for all the team has done for him and he also owes IEM. Naniwa said he doesn't give a fuck about SC2 at the moment but still accepts an invitation to poland, free hotel and a chance at winning 100k. He owes IEM that he sticks to his bloody side of the deal in accepting that spot and that would be that he plays. He could lose, he could not even try if he wanted to but he should have played those games, he owed that not to me, not to the community but to his team and to IEM. I can see that being a valid point, and I would accept it, if IEM/Alliance would complain about it. But AFAIK, most people complaining in this thread are neither ESL officials nor Allinace staff members.
You say it yourself, they play the game... because its their job? You say the community treats players like their servants, I strongly disagree with that. Playing the game is their job, how did Naniwa do his job? I'm not saying im a customer in this instance or whatever. From your perspective he obviously didn't do his job. Whats wrong with being upset that someone totally ditches their work and at the same is a total douchebag in the way he does it.
If you are not going to work, calling in sick, quiting your job. There are many ways of doing it that is NOT going to work like normal, putting yourself in a public situation and then going "Meh I just don't feel like it today".
So if someone works at Wallmart and steals loads of money and food, we as a community (the public) is not allowed to be upset about it because we are not the officals at Wallmart? xD lol If someone murders someone we are are not allowed to be upset because it doesn't hurt "us"? >_> Seriously
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On March 15 2014 19:10 Mina wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 18:21 hariooo wrote: Hey guys I think Naniwa's behaviour is disgusting so I'm going to make jokes about real mental illnesses. /s I was being sincere. a diagnosis is only for a therapy and not helpful anywhere else.
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sc2 is a singleplayer game and therefore it is not that bad that the pro player scene has many different characters. There are good guys and some bad guys. SC2 lost one of their bad guys yesterday.
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On March 15 2014 19:33 Ludwigvan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 19:10 Mina wrote:On March 15 2014 18:21 hariooo wrote: Hey guys I think Naniwa's behaviour is disgusting so I'm going to make jokes about real mental illnesses. /s I was being sincere. a diagnosis is only for a therapy and not helpful anywhere else. Well, I think that at the very least it's something that might be considered so as to not be so mad at him or whatever. It might be due to that -- simply throwing it out as an avenue to think about without completely-100% agreeing that he's mentally unstable.
Cuz at the very least, it's ... odd but somewhat stable behavior, so it goes beyond most people's expectations for normative behavior. *shrug*. I'm not even mad or have an opinion on the actual subject, it's just interesting, I guess (in an objective way or something)
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On March 15 2014 19:40 tshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 19:33 Ludwigvan wrote:On March 15 2014 19:10 Mina wrote:On March 15 2014 18:21 hariooo wrote: Hey guys I think Naniwa's behaviour is disgusting so I'm going to make jokes about real mental illnesses. /s I was being sincere. a diagnosis is only for a therapy and not helpful anywhere else. Well, I think that at the very least it's something that might be considered so as to not be so mad at him or whatever. It might be due to that -- simply throwing it out as an avenue to think about without completely-100% agreeing that he's mentally unstable. Cuz at the very least, it's ... odd but somewhat stable behavior, so it goes beyond most people's expectations for normative behavior. *shrug*. I'm not even mad or have an opinion on the actual subject, it's just interesting, I guess (in an objective way or something) the Anthropologist has arrived to the party. XD
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Not sure if it was mentioned but playing without soundbarrier actually gives the advantage to naniwa since most koreans don't speak english that well. Also it is incredibly stupid to give up on a decent chance for 100k, unbelievable.
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On March 15 2014 17:52 Glorfindel! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 15:09 MVega wrote:On March 15 2014 14:58 Nirel wrote: I can't believe people are still defending him, I wonder what he has to do for people to stop making excuses for him. Swedish pride too strong on the internet. I think the only thing that might rival it is an American defending an American. And I say that as a person who has been in both places and is friends with a great many people from both. I've never known two groups of people that are so amazingly alike aside from a handful of very obvious differences. So yeah he'll always have defenders even though he totally seems to be doing everything possible to scare them off. I am from Sweden and there is no player i dislike more out there than Naniwa... O.o This whole situation is so stupid according to me: 1 - Polt already had his SCVs scouting setThere was not way Polt scouted like he did reacting to the noise from the crowd. He had already set the scouting pattern for the SCV (it is very obvious since the casters even displays the set trip for it). 2 - What was IEM suppoed to do anyway?You can never give a regame for what happend. If so, anyone could make proxies every game and each time they got scouted they would complain about the crowd. Proxying would turn out into something risk-free. If I dont remember very wrong, you are always able to feel the vibrations from the crowd through all the covers. I mean, they could make them play from New York if they want to be safe. Would be fun, aight? Well you could tell the crowd to STFU as someone in this thread suggested since they do that in golf and tennis. Had that not been really fun tournaments to visit? Everyone sitting quiet, being afraid to upset Nani in the booth? I think everyone prefers the arena atmosphere - with perhaps a few Nanifans excluded today. 3 - Naniwa if anyone has no moral right to complainWhen playing vs Flash on MLG - Naniwa clearly had no shame in his body turning his scouting probe around when the crowd reacted to him missing Flashs proxy barracks. You find it hereTo Sumarize - This is what happends when everyone babysits a childWith nations wars coming up Naniwa did some not really classy moves shutting both Miniraiser and Thorzain out of the team. Instantly the Swedish manager and some other quite high profiled persons in Swedish Esport ride out to his protection because "he is the star and he can do whatever he wants". When you again, and again, get told that you can do what you want because you are the at it - it wont really strenght your attitude. It will make things like this happend - Naniwa clearly thought he could do whatever he wanted at IEM aswell but nobody actually got impressed this time. Nobody is riding out to answer his cries for justice. There he stands alone, looking like a lone fool. I have said it for a long time - Naniwas attitude will never be accepted the moment that he is no longer clearly the best non-korean. With that in mind, we should not accept his attitude just because he happends to be a good starcraft player. That itself never gives you the right to act as you want. Neither gives it the best doctor at the hospital the right to call the patiences idiots, morons and a stupid community. You would never accept that at a normal work and I dont think we should accept Naniwa acting as he do either.
I dont necessarily think that Naniwa's attitude was accepted because he was a good player, I think Naniwa's attitude was tolerated (at least for me and some others I know) because he is simply the only foreigner that can compete at the same level as koreans which is very very rare. If Foreigners could compete with Koreans a bit better I wouldn't tolerate it because he isn't a special player anymore, but in the past he has been one the very few foreigners that actually gave me hope and because of that he is still my favorite player despite his BM.
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One Naniwa is all it takes to create 100.000 views in one thread. Only having breezed through the Tournament forum, that is more than 95% of all tournament threads on the first few pages. Who gives a crap about the game, when drama is all that really matters :-)
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The worst part of this is that it hurts the scene. That kind of behaviour will scare potencial sponsors even futher seeing E-Sports like Children playing in the sand instead of a serious competition.
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On March 15 2014 19:31 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2014 19:22 Xoronius wrote:On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: Sorry dude, there would be players even without *the players", that because almost every fan is also a player.
Its like football, or any sport for that matter, all active players could retire or whatever this very day and you know what, tomorrow there would still be football. The "players" you talk about are like the top of an Iceberg, they are the "best" right now and the ones competing. But if they retired there would be a huge line of competetive players behind just waiting for their chance. This is'nt about the top players, this is about players in general. The community treats players as their servants, not as their partners. The players play this game, because it is fun for them and because it is their job, not because they view themselves as entertainers of the community. Some do and that brings them extra-support, but as I said, that is extra. It is not a players duty, to do whatever he can to entertain the community. And yeah, ofc. there would be replacements, since there are a lot of players, but you can´t argue, that it is also in the communities intrest, that we can watch herO vs Hyun instead of avilo vs destiny. On March 15 2014 18:57 Shuffleblade wrote: A player like Naniwa kan compete like he does because he gets sponsored, he gets sponsored because companies believe that having him wear their logos and represent their company will increase their sales as good marketing. Bad publicity can still be good marketing but its a limit to that as well as demonstrated by the Idra case.
Any sponsor would be glad to exchange an investment that isn't paying off for one that would pay off. Naniwa doesn't owe us anything, we don't owe Naniwa anything. But you know what, Nani fucking owe Alliance for all the team has done for him and he also owes IEM. Naniwa said he doesn't give a fuck about SC2 at the moment but still accepts an invitation to poland, free hotel and a chance at winning 100k. He owes IEM that he sticks to his bloody side of the deal in accepting that spot and that would be that he plays. He could lose, he could not even try if he wanted to but he should have played those games, he owed that not to me, not to the community but to his team and to IEM. I can see that being a valid point, and I would accept it, if IEM/Alliance would complain about it. But AFAIK, most people complaining in this thread are neither ESL officials nor Allinace staff members. You say it yourself, they play the game... because its their job? You say the community treats players like their servants, I strongly disagree with that. Playing the game is their job, how did Naniwa do his job? I'm not saying im a customer in this instance or whatever. From your perspective he obviously didn't do his job. Whats wrong with being upset that someone totally ditches their work and at the same is a total douchebag in the way he does it. If you are not going to work, calling in sick, quiting your job. There are many ways of doing it that is NOT going to work like normal, putting yourself in a public situation and then going "Meh I just don't feel like it today". So if someone works at Wallmart and steals loads of money and food, we as a community (the public) is not allowed to be upset about it because we are not the officals at Wallmart? xD lol If someone murders someone we are are not allowed to be upset because it doesn't hurt "us"? >_> Seriously Stealing something from Walmart is illegal. Killing someone is illegal. Forfitting a series is NOT illegal, it is within the players rights, so the comparism at this point is pretty unfitting. More fitting would be a 15-second 100m sprint or a Formula 1 driver crushing into a wall (Not Nelson Piquet jr, that man deserves community hate for what he did[Driving into a wall, so that his team partner could win, if you are'nt into F1]). If you ask me how Naniwa did his job yesterady, I could tell you, that it was'nt that good. And if you do your job not that good as a pro player, you don't get prize money. That is how it works in competition.
If you want a comparism to Wlamarkt stealing: This is what map hackers do. This is what stream cheaters do. Did Naniwa do any of that? No, he did'nt so please don't make it sound like he is a criminal.
Btw: Demuslim forfeited series mid series in the past. Did he get that much shit for it? Nony has forfeited series mid series in the past. Did he get that nuch shit for it? Stephano has forfeited a tournament between semi-final and final. Did he get that much shit for it?
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Naniwa is an idiot. He should have just played it out. He should have known that everyone would react like this. Have some pride man. GL in your future life.
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Wow his new tweets, he just doesn't know when to shut up.
I really hope he finds a new attitude when it comes to get a real job. Otherwise he will have a hard time. For me he's gone and I don't care about him anymore.
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Naniwa`s twitter.......
Tat ta!!! NANIWA!!! We wont miss you - you pice of lazy, childish, unprofessional douchebag!!!
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never cared for this manchild, at all.
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