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On February 26 2014 05:32 B-rye88 wrote:
This is likely impacted by me being so new to the scene, but I really don't get all the hacking on blizzard. This is about as top-notch responsive and reasonable as you can expect another human / group of humans to be.
Welcome to the SC2 General Forums. Leave your reason at the door.
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Cool!! There will be more risk to do early blink stalker... Plz end this Toss OP situation
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Mothership change a gigantic nerf, but a needed one tbh.
I still don't like the widow mine buff, I'll have to see pros use it
Hydra buff is only ok imo if it's leading to a nerf somewhere else for zerg, hopefully swarm hosts
Glad they realized the blink and tempest changes were stupid
Overall, I'm happy
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On February 26 2014 05:14 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 05:11 playa wrote:On February 26 2014 05:08 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 26 2014 05:07 playa wrote:
Personally, I would have traded the removal of blink... to keep the current vision on mothership core. Observers are worthless. It's going to be much harder to have good engagements now. Observers are worthless? Wut? Most useless unit in the game besides the BC. You have to be so freaking bad to not be able to spot an observer. And once you do spot it, what unit dies faster in the game than an observer? Nothing is even close. Relying on observers to help you in battles is about as great of an idea as pulling your probes to help out. They still offer horrendous vision when dealing with swarm hosts. I would take a 25/75 changeling for toss over that joke. Um...ok. Everyone is entitled to their really really wrong opinions, I guess. Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 05:08 aZealot wrote:
14 - 9 seems a bit much. I was anticipating 14 - 11 consistent with air units. But, I think, this really is to finally put a strong nerf on Blink all-ins. I find this regrettable - at least because I dislike that kind of inconsistency in the game.
I think it's ok to have less than other air units considering how early in the game this particular flying unit comes out, on top of all its other utility.
I still think it too much, mate. Instead, I wish they had made TW an upgrade at Core and kept vision at 11.
The MSC has too much utility with 3 spells at start. And TW is powerful in aiding the power of Blink all-ins.
But, whatever. It's done now. If only Blizzard would listen to me (and not everyone else!). 
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jesus Blizzard when do u finally understand that the msc completly destroyed hots, if u want to minimize the damage the games took, u must at least remove the ability of the msc to attack ground units and u have to think about nerfing the nexuscanon, not only the duration but also the range. im really holding back my thoughts about the blizzard-sc2 balance employee and i say that VERY nicely!
the widowmine change can at least make the mid-lategame more interesting but the nerf of the msc-vision is by far not enough. the reason why bs-allins are imba are not rly the maps its just the msc, in wol it was much more possible to deal with bs allins. all abilities of early agression from terran like proxy marodeur rushes, marodeur helion pushes, 2 rax etc. are not possible anymore. In Wol, without the msc terran hat at least 10 effective openings, but because of the msc now we have 3 (reaper expand into 3 rax, cc first, and reaper expand into widowmine).
a joke!
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I would've liked hydras to get +10 hp instead of even more dps, WM might be insane against probes lol
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On February 26 2014 05:34 chillaful wrote:
jesus Blizzard when do u finally understand that the msc completly destroyed hots, if u want to minimize the damage the games took, u must at least remove the ability of the msc to attack ground units and u have to think about nerfing the nexuscanon, not only the duration but also the range. im really holding back my thoughts about the blizzard-sc2 balance employee and i say that VERY nicely!
Completely destroyed HotS? lol, the MsC was a godsend for a struggling and inconsistent Protoss race.
On February 26 2014 05:35 Die4Ever wrote:
I would've liked hydras to get +10 hp instead of even more dps, WM might be insane against probes lol
Meh, they've always been pretty good against probes. Now you're just punished even more for bad reaction to a widow mine drop, which is fine imo
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On February 26 2014 05:32 B-rye88 wrote:
This is likely impacted by me being so new to the scene, but I really don't get all the hacking on blizzard. This is about as top-notch responsive and reasonable as you can expect another human / group of humans to be.
Never, it's never good enough! Give it another couple of months. We'll wear down that optimism and appreciation!
Edit/ I really should get back to work. I've got a lot to do too...
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On February 26 2014 05:34 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 05:32 B-rye88 wrote:
This is likely impacted by me being so new to the scene, but I really don't get all the hacking on blizzard. This is about as top-notch responsive and reasonable as you can expect another human / group of humans to be. Welcome to the SC2 General Forums. Leave your reason at the door.
On February 26 2014 05:34 chillaful wrote:
jesus Blizzard when do u finally understand that the msc completly destroyed hots, if u want to minimize the damage the games took, u must at least remove the ability of the msc to attack ground units and u have to think about nerfing the nexuscanon, not only the duration but also the range. im really holding back my thoughts about the blizzard-sc2 balance employee and i say that VERY nicely!
the widowmine change can at least make the mid-lategame more interesting but the nerf of the msc-vision is by far not enough. the reason why bs-allins are imba are not rly the maps its just the msc, in wol it was much more possible to deal with bs allins. all abilities of early agression from terran like proxy marodeur rushes, marodeur helion pushes, 2 rax etc. are not possible anymore. In Wol, without the msc terran hat at least 10 effective openings, but because of the msc now we have 3 (reaper expand into 3 rax, cc first, and reaper expand into widowmine).
a joke!
Noted.
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OMG the hydralisks! That's all I have to say.
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Also pretty sure this will be enough to make 1/1/1 viable enough as well instead of just 3rax & 2rax/ebay. That'll be nice.
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@ KrazyTrumpet
i dont know in which universe protoss was for u a struggling and inconsistent race lol. the msc only makes PvP less coinflip, thats it.
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All the changes seem pretty good. I actually didn't mind the blink change, but an increase to 15 was probably too much. 12 would have been fine. But still, not too bad for blizzard at least. I'm most interested in the widow mine buff and how that'll affect things.
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On February 26 2014 05:36 aZealot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 05:32 B-rye88 wrote:
This is likely impacted by me being so new to the scene, but I really don't get all the hacking on blizzard. This is about as top-notch responsive and reasonable as you can expect another human / group of humans to be. Never, it's never good enough! Give it another couple of months. We'll wear down that optimism and appreciation! Edit/ I really should get back to work. I've got a lot to do too...
The general SC2 forum is where rational thought goes to die. Excuse me, I need to write a 8000 word peice on design and positional play.
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On February 26 2014 05:40 B-rye88 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 05:34 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 26 2014 05:32 B-rye88 wrote:
This is likely impacted by me being so new to the scene, but I really don't get all the hacking on blizzard. This is about as top-notch responsive and reasonable as you can expect another human / group of humans to be. Welcome to the SC2 General Forums. Leave your reason at the door. Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 05:34 chillaful wrote:
jesus Blizzard when do u finally understand that the msc completly destroyed hots, if u want to minimize the damage the games took, u must at least remove the ability of the msc to attack ground units and u have to think about nerfing the nexuscanon, not only the duration but also the range. im really holding back my thoughts about the blizzard-sc2 balance employee and i say that VERY nicely!
the widowmine change can at least make the mid-lategame more interesting but the nerf of the msc-vision is by far not enough. the reason why bs-allins are imba are not rly the maps its just the msc, in wol it was much more possible to deal with bs allins. all abilities of early agression from terran like proxy marodeur rushes, marodeur helion pushes, 2 rax etc. are not possible anymore. In Wol, without the msc terran hat at least 10 effective openings, but because of the msc now we have 3 (reaper expand into 3 rax, cc first, and reaper expand into widowmine).
a joke! Noted.
Quick learner, you'll do well.
On February 26 2014 05:42 chillaful wrote:
@ KrazyTrumpet
i dont know in which universe protoss was for u a struggling and inconsistent race lol. the msc only makes PvP less coinflip, thats it.
Did WoL just not happen for you?
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On February 26 2014 05:42 chillaful wrote:
@ KrazyTrumpet
i dont know in which universe protoss was for u a struggling and inconsistent race lol. the msc only makes PvP less coinflip, thats it.
it was called WoL.
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MsC is not only used for allins and Photon Overcharge... I actually never blink allin. At all.
Vs. Zerg it's very helpful to judge where the army is and if he's trying to surround you. You can tell whether you can move into a position and forcefield it off or whether his army is too close. You can also see Vipers coming from 14 range away and get ready to feedback them. Or you can tell if you can't win a fight and start to retreat since the Zerg army is faster than you. You can't do this with observers because Hydra/Overseer kills them pretty consistently.
Versus Protoss MsC gives some spotting for your Tempests when going up vs. a Colossus based army. It also allows you to position your Colossus army well when facing Chargelot/Archon so you don't get surrounded. It also helps you scout your opponent early game between the time his 1st Stalker comes out and the time he's chosen his tech path, which Probes can't do. Again, assuming he has observers your own Observers are not useful here.
Vs. Terran, it gives crucial sight range to your army. It really helps with identifying where the ghosts are at, moving your obs into position, and getting the feedbacks off. It also helps with which direction you need to spread your units in. If you spread in the wrong direction, the Terran can flank you and fight 20% of your army with his entire army. Scan/Vikings kills your obs if you just leave them at the front. Therefore you need a way to judge where you will need the obs so you can keep them safe until they're needed.
So please... before this "Protoss tears" bullshit gets out of hand... do realize that this affects the entire game and not just Blink Stalker allins. It's a 60% nerf to a unit that is commonly used throughout the entire game. It's significant.
TLDR I'm not saying Protoss will never win again.. I'm just saying its significant and should not be dismissed.
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On February 26 2014 05:43 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 05:40 B-rye88 wrote:On February 26 2014 05:34 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 26 2014 05:32 B-rye88 wrote:
This is likely impacted by me being so new to the scene, but I really don't get all the hacking on blizzard. This is about as top-notch responsive and reasonable as you can expect another human / group of humans to be. Welcome to the SC2 General Forums. Leave your reason at the door. On February 26 2014 05:34 chillaful wrote:
jesus Blizzard when do u finally understand that the msc completly destroyed hots, if u want to minimize the damage the games took, u must at least remove the ability of the msc to attack ground units and u have to think about nerfing the nexuscanon, not only the duration but also the range. im really holding back my thoughts about the blizzard-sc2 balance employee and i say that VERY nicely!
the widowmine change can at least make the mid-lategame more interesting but the nerf of the msc-vision is by far not enough. the reason why bs-allins are imba are not rly the maps its just the msc, in wol it was much more possible to deal with bs allins. all abilities of early agression from terran like proxy marodeur rushes, marodeur helion pushes, 2 rax etc. are not possible anymore. In Wol, without the msc terran hat at least 10 effective openings, but because of the msc now we have 3 (reaper expand into 3 rax, cc first, and reaper expand into widowmine).
a joke! Noted. Quick learner, you'll do well. Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 05:42 chillaful wrote:
@ KrazyTrumpet
i dont know in which universe protoss was for u a struggling and inconsistent race lol. the msc only makes PvP less coinflip, thats it. Did WoL just not happen for you?
WOL pvp, where expanding was the biggest coin flip of tem all. Also, war of the worlds with a whirlpool in the middle.
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On February 26 2014 05:21 b0ub0u wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 05:16 DinoMight wrote:
I don't think people understand. 14 range to 9 range is a 60% nerf. The mothership core will have 40% of the vision it has now. That's a huge nerf.
Widow mine splash will do 100% more damage. How is this "not significant?"
I legitimately don't understand anyone saying this won't make a difference. They buffed tank attack speed 10% and we can all see the impact.. A LOT more people going Tanks. If I were you I would check your math again  MSC will have 64% of the vision it had before. It lost 36%.
We might be talking area, in which case it shrunk from 154 units to 64 units, that is it's seeing 60% less of the terrain benieth it. However this isn't that useful a way of thinking about it because, for the most acute impact of vision, it isn't general map seeing that is useful. When you have an army beneath it the job the MSC does is seeing in that-one-particular direction that you want to see, the direction you think his army is in.
There's no doubt there's been a 60% reduction in something, but it's more the scouting utility the MSC has on it's own I think.
I've never seen a unit without a circular vision range, but it might be interesting to see.
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On February 26 2014 05:42 chillaful wrote:
@ KrazyTrumpet
i dont know in which universe protoss was for u a struggling and inconsistent race lol. the msc only makes PvP less coinflip, thats it.
You might want to rewatch some WoL games. Protoss needs MSC defensive abilities for stability and not just in PvP. The only thing silly about MSC is that it is a superb offensive tool and a defensive tool at the same time.
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EPT
