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The funniest fact is that when theDwf speaks, everyone is shut up afterward. No more argument against that kind of logic 
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On March 08 2014 21:49 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 21:22 Big J wrote:On March 08 2014 10:52 Foxxan wrote:On March 08 2014 09:36 Big J wrote:On March 08 2014 07:36 Foxxan wrote:
@Voidrays
To me, this unit is the most boring in the pvz matchup. I am not playing zerg myself
but the way i see it, is they hinder gameplay more than they give. I to want a change to this unit mainly because its very boring..
Even if zergs have "figured" out how to play versus protoss when they go voidrays i feel it would be much funnier
if this unit got changed.
I think one of the reasons zerg have to go swarmhosts is because of this unit.
But i dont know if the unit is the symptom or one of the core issues
And iam not even talking about all the cheeses/allins this unit can do
I think VRs per se are fine, you could as well blame Templar or Colossi since those are the units that prevent VR countering (with Hydralisks/Infestors) in the late-/endgame. I could write pages about reasons why the dynamics are what they are, yet, I believe the core problem will always remain the timing possibilities of more costefficient Zerg Units paired with the too high supply costs of same or the too low supply costs of certain Protoss units. E.g. stalker vs roach: a stalker costs 75res more and gets softcountered by roaches - but at the max this also means you have a 75res stronger army and suddenly you are already softcountering roaches just by fielding an army that is worth more. Immortals: 4supply for 350resources. An ultralisk costs 500resources for 6supply. So maxing on Immortals means you have again a more costly (and therefore rightfully stronger) army Tempest, VRs, Templar, Archon... many units that have quite lower supply:resource relations than any of the zerg ground options. Therefore Protoss can field a more costly army. And therefore it is naturally stronger. (the tradeoff being a lack of combat-costefficiency, so your 175res stalker is actually only worth ~150res that you'd spend on roaches in combat) It means zerg has to engage Protoss with something that he does not have the counters to (like a mass mutalisk switch after a trade, or a ultralisk timing before a good VR/Immortal count) - or rely on strategies that should not be in the game, like massively mobile Static D walls with SHs or to speak in WoL terms with 8marines for 2supply infestors etc... So more or less it goes back to the larva mechanic? I don't think you can pin it down to one thing alone, there are way to many contradictions with this. Like, you could say that the larva mechanic makes it so that Zerg can hit strong timings with units like roaches and the drawback is that building those when you don't need them is your punishment. But that kind of contradicts TvZ, where those timings are not nearly as strong. So you could go the other way around and say Protoss units are too weak. But that contradicts again that they are very, very strong in many situations, starting with early game stalker pokes, to warpgate allins, to just the power of massive stalkerballs with just a handful of support against a roach/hydra army. Same with VRs or Tempests or SHs being "too strong". They are not when you play them against a bio-Terran, then they are actually rather too weak. Even Protoss players have good tricks against VR/Tempest and Zergs hardly ever get into those situations where it becomes SH wars. It's many little dynamics that contribute to the situation we have and I think the crux of them is usually that a Zerg gets punished very hard for making units without doing damage in ZvP and a Protoss gets punished very hard for losing units, even when he does some damage. It makes for a situation in which the Zerg does not want to build units unless forced to and the Protoss does not want to use his units, unless it is very safe to. **Most obviously, the situation has become much better in HotS. Recall, the absence of a strong fungal and many tweaks (Prism buff, Oracles, flying units in general) let Protoss players play more actively and stronger hydralisks, mutalisks and Vipertransitions let Zerg extend their usage of midgame units. But it is still quite recognizeable and expressed in SH turtle endgames, which are the only choice against nearly all variations of ultimate Protoss armies. I'd say there is still a lot of potential to improve the matchup by changing relations - without even touching "core mechanics" at all. I think the issue with the larvamechanic in Sc2 is that it allows the zerg player to dominate the midgame. He can simply always have more stuff than his opponent. Especially in late WOL that was quite apparent where both the protoss and the terran had to turtle --> a timing attack, which created quite boring games. In HOTS, Blizzard solved the issue for terran by giving them a mobile AOE (the Widow Mine) and a strong escape goat in the Speed-medivac. This gave terran a way of putting constant pressure on the zerg player, even if he had the inferior army size. However, the solution for the protoss player was IMO quite terrible (Recall on Mothership Core). It wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard in the next expansion would try to replicate the succes formula of TvZ into the protoss arsenal. They will probably (hopefully) look at both Sentry and the Collosus and try to make it easier for protoss to move out --> do a bit of damage and then retreat while not losing the whole army. I think they should also nerf larva a bit (maybe 3 larva instead of 4 per round) and at the same time replace the Mule w/ something else (a less strong macromechanic). That will roughly maintain TvZ balance, and will make it easier for protoss to secure map control (without allining) against both zerg and terran, thus less turtling (hopefully). A sideadvantage of removing the mule is that it actually makes it possible to rebuff Siege Tanks back to 2 supply (as mech atm benefits too much from mass OC spamming + no workers + Siege Tanks/Ravens).
Yeah, I think such tweaks would be good (like larva to 3).
I'm also inclined to like the recall mechanic, I think recalls are very interesting and exciting. They are just not enough on their own, since you cannot recall a drop and the decisionmaking involved is very, very distinct.
To Zerg dominating the midgame, I think I know what situations you talk about, but I think it's not quite true that those builds with explosive production just "make Zerg dominate the midgame". It comes with similar if not the same drawbacks that P/T have when they 2-3base push a Zerg, that is they will have a hard time in the lategame. But in both of those matchups - ZvT and ZvP - both parties usually can just decide to play like that. Of course with differences - a blue flame hellion push of 2base had probably less chance of coming back than a 3base 2-2 muta/ling/bling timing. A 3base 2-2 Marine/Tank/Medivac timing was probably stronger than anything Zerg could do before Hivetech. Sentry/Immortal is probably up to date the most successful allin. So successful that you could even start a discussion about whether it should even be considered unorthodox to play like that, since it's winchances seem to be as high as playing a good macro game.
What is true however is that Zergs really got (and against Protoss get) to dominate the map.
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On March 08 2014 21:49 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 21:22 Big J wrote:On March 08 2014 10:52 Foxxan wrote:On March 08 2014 09:36 Big J wrote:On March 08 2014 07:36 Foxxan wrote:
@Voidrays
To me, this unit is the most boring in the pvz matchup. I am not playing zerg myself
but the way i see it, is they hinder gameplay more than they give. I to want a change to this unit mainly because its very boring..
Even if zergs have "figured" out how to play versus protoss when they go voidrays i feel it would be much funnier
if this unit got changed.
I think one of the reasons zerg have to go swarmhosts is because of this unit.
But i dont know if the unit is the symptom or one of the core issues
And iam not even talking about all the cheeses/allins this unit can do
I think VRs per se are fine, you could as well blame Templar or Colossi since those are the units that prevent VR countering (with Hydralisks/Infestors) in the late-/endgame. I could write pages about reasons why the dynamics are what they are, yet, I believe the core problem will always remain the timing possibilities of more costefficient Zerg Units paired with the too high supply costs of same or the too low supply costs of certain Protoss units. E.g. stalker vs roach: a stalker costs 75res more and gets softcountered by roaches - but at the max this also means you have a 75res stronger army and suddenly you are already softcountering roaches just by fielding an army that is worth more. Immortals: 4supply for 350resources. An ultralisk costs 500resources for 6supply. So maxing on Immortals means you have again a more costly (and therefore rightfully stronger) army Tempest, VRs, Templar, Archon... many units that have quite lower supply:resource relations than any of the zerg ground options. Therefore Protoss can field a more costly army. And therefore it is naturally stronger. (the tradeoff being a lack of combat-costefficiency, so your 175res stalker is actually only worth ~150res that you'd spend on roaches in combat) It means zerg has to engage Protoss with something that he does not have the counters to (like a mass mutalisk switch after a trade, or a ultralisk timing before a good VR/Immortal count) - or rely on strategies that should not be in the game, like massively mobile Static D walls with SHs or to speak in WoL terms with 8marines for 2supply infestors etc... So more or less it goes back to the larva mechanic? I don't think you can pin it down to one thing alone, there are way to many contradictions with this. Like, you could say that the larva mechanic makes it so that Zerg can hit strong timings with units like roaches and the drawback is that building those when you don't need them is your punishment. But that kind of contradicts TvZ, where those timings are not nearly as strong. So you could go the other way around and say Protoss units are too weak. But that contradicts again that they are very, very strong in many situations, starting with early game stalker pokes, to warpgate allins, to just the power of massive stalkerballs with just a handful of support against a roach/hydra army. Same with VRs or Tempests or SHs being "too strong". They are not when you play them against a bio-Terran, then they are actually rather too weak. Even Protoss players have good tricks against VR/Tempest and Zergs hardly ever get into those situations where it becomes SH wars. It's many little dynamics that contribute to the situation we have and I think the crux of them is usually that a Zerg gets punished very hard for making units without doing damage in ZvP and a Protoss gets punished very hard for losing units, even when he does some damage. It makes for a situation in which the Zerg does not want to build units unless forced to and the Protoss does not want to use his units, unless it is very safe to. **Most obviously, the situation has become much better in HotS. Recall, the absence of a strong fungal and many tweaks (Prism buff, Oracles, flying units in general) let Protoss players play more actively and stronger hydralisks, mutalisks and Vipertransitions let Zerg extend their usage of midgame units. But it is still quite recognizeable and expressed in SH turtle endgames, which are the only choice against nearly all variations of ultimate Protoss armies. I'd say there is still a lot of potential to improve the matchup by changing relations - without even touching "core mechanics" at all. I think the issue with the larvamechanic in Sc2 is that it allows the zerg player to dominate the midgame. He can simply always have more stuff than his opponent. Especially in late WOL that was quite apparent where both the protoss and the terran had to turtle --> a timing attack, which created quite boring games. In HOTS, Blizzard solved the issue for terran by giving them a mobile AOE (the Widow Mine) and a strong escape goat in the Speed-medivac. This gave terran a way of putting constant pressure on the zerg player, even if he had the inferior army size. However, the solution for the protoss player was IMO quite terrible (Recall on Mothership Core). It wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard in the next expansion would try to replicate the succes formula of TvZ into the protoss arsenal. They will probably (hopefully) look at both Sentry and the Collosus and try to make it easier for protoss to move out --> do a bit of damage and then retreat while not losing the whole army. I think they should also nerf larva a bit (maybe 3 larva instead of 4 per round) and at the same time replace the Mule w/ something else (a less strong macromechanic). That will roughly maintain TvZ balance, and will make it easier for protoss to secure map control (without allining) against both zerg and terran, thus less turtling (hopefully). A sideadvantage of removing the mule is that it actually makes it possible to rebuff Siege Tanks back to 2 supply (as mech atm benefits too much from mass OC spamming + no workers + Siege Tanks/Ravens).
protoss doesn't have to be turtling.
Look at hero (both) style, aggressive and multi tasking focus with storm drop and chargelot runby/drops etc
I have said this before, protoss is the only race that let an aggressive players like hero or parting and defensive players like rain and creator to showcase their different style.
The problem of WoL was largely different to what we have in HotS when it comes to zerg.
WoL TvZ was all about timing pushes is not because zerg has larva and more stuff than terran in mid game, it is because mid game composition for zerg could hold on almost anything the terran throw at them.
this is why terran just go for pre hive/pre broodlord timing instead.
MKP has some success with his CS marine +1 move out into pure bio late WoL, which is a great strategy especially for smaller maps that zerg can't just turtle and defend with infestor while teching upto broodlords/ultras.
There were relatively few builds that terran had innovated which focuses on mid game timing like MKP had.
Most were early medivac timing into powering on 3 base and push out and one big trade decide everything.
In Hots, this is largely because mutas regen is so powerful and all these speed buff like medivac speed buff, phoenix range upgrade, etc just breaks the balance we had before.
But is it a huge problem?
I won't say so yet, since if Zerg can't break a terran with a heavy muta style, it becomes a hard game because while terran is slowly defending against the mutas, they are already transitioning into their great mix marauder viking marines thor medivac that can deal with almost all zerg can throw at the army.
so long the timing between zerg breaking a terran with mass muta and terran getting a nice army ball is not too great, game is looking pretty solid.
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On March 08 2014 22:01 Faust852 wrote:The funniest fact is that when theDwf speaks, everyone is shut up afterward. No more argument against that kind of logic
Cause they can't say anything cause none of them actually says something of value or with proof and reasoning. They shut the fuck up until people forget TheDwf's post and they'll come posting the same shit again.
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On March 08 2014 23:03 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 22:01 Faust852 wrote:The funniest fact is that when theDwf speaks, everyone is shut up afterward. No more argument against that kind of logic Cause they can't say anything cause none of them actually says something of value or with proof and reasoning. They shut the fuck up until people forget TheDwf's post and they'll come posting the same shit again.
That was my point :p
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On March 08 2014 23:03 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 22:01 Faust852 wrote:The funniest fact is that when theDwf speaks, everyone is shut up afterward. No more argument against that kind of logic Cause they can't say anything cause none of them actually says something of value or with proof and reasoning. They shut the fuck up until people forget TheDwf's post and they'll come posting the same shit again.
Actually the reason I stop posting when TheDwf posts is because he is so incredibly biased that there is simply no reasoning with him.
Yes it's true he's very skilled at the game and is a higher rank than most people... but so is Taeja. And that guy is the biggest whiner in esports despite winning all the tournaments that he does.
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On March 09 2014 03:26 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 23:03 Chaggi wrote:On March 08 2014 22:01 Faust852 wrote:The funniest fact is that when theDwf speaks, everyone is shut up afterward. No more argument against that kind of logic Cause they can't say anything cause none of them actually says something of value or with proof and reasoning. They shut the fuck up until people forget TheDwf's post and they'll come posting the same shit again. ... he is so incredibly biased ...
This... coming from you?
...
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The fast he is biased prevent you from being able to respond to TheDwf's points?
Seems legit
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On March 09 2014 03:28 Rowrin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 03:26 DinoMight wrote:On March 08 2014 23:03 Chaggi wrote:On March 08 2014 22:01 Faust852 wrote:The funniest fact is that when theDwf speaks, everyone is shut up afterward. No more argument against that kind of logic Cause they can't say anything cause none of them actually says something of value or with proof and reasoning. They shut the fuck up until people forget TheDwf's post and they'll come posting the same shit again. ... he is so incredibly biased ... This... coming from you? ...
I actually play all three races quite a lot. I may seem biased because of my writing style, but I think I'm actually fairly reasonable in terms of being partial to one race.
On March 09 2014 03:28 VieuxSinge wrote:
The fast he is biased prevent you from being able to respond to TheDwf's points?
Seems legit
It's like trying to argue with a religious person about their religion. They are not going to change their mind regardless of what you say. So what's the point?
Sure I can respond to his comments, but he will always respond with something farfetched that supposedly 'counters' my argument. And then it's back to the beginning.
EDIT - sure I will respond to his post
Actually in Wings of Liberty during the 1/1/1 days I said very little and worked very hard to figure out a way to counter it. I tried everything from Phoenixes to DTs to straight Colossus rushes. Something may be imbalanced, sure.. but I always find that the perception of imbalance is stronger than the actual imbalance. If more people tried to find a solution instead of just whining we might get somewhere.
FYI - DT rush into fast Colossus worked great against 1/1/1 because it delayed it enough that you actually had a chance to build up an army big enough to engage the Terran sieged outside your base. And you could straight kill them if they didn't make a Raven. I've seen HerO and Squirtle use this in pro matches too.
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On March 09 2014 03:38 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 03:28 Rowrin wrote:On March 09 2014 03:26 DinoMight wrote:On March 08 2014 23:03 Chaggi wrote:On March 08 2014 22:01 Faust852 wrote:The funniest fact is that when theDwf speaks, everyone is shut up afterward. No more argument against that kind of logic Cause they can't say anything cause none of them actually says something of value or with proof and reasoning. They shut the fuck up until people forget TheDwf's post and they'll come posting the same shit again. ... he is so incredibly biased ... This... coming from you? ... I actually play all three races quite a lot. I may seem biased because of my writing style, but I think I'm actually fairly reasonable in terms of being partial to one race. Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 03:28 VieuxSinge wrote:
The fast he is biased prevent you from being able to respond to TheDwf's points?
Seems legit It's like trying to argue with a religious person about their religion. They are not going to change their mind regardless of what you say. So what's the point? Sure I can respond to his comments, but he will always respond with something farfetched that supposedly 'counters' my argument. And then it's back to the beginning.
Nope. You are pretty bias. Especially at the beginning before Blizzard admitted there were issues with TvP and made patch changes.
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Dinomight, maybe you should know then that I consider you the most biased protoss poster on this board.
There are many protoss biased posters I know and tend to argue with, but I skip your posts entirely. A combination of bias and ignorance that just isnt worth my time.
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I think we can safely say that we are all pretty bias. I can't think of a single poster in this thread that isn't bias in one direction or another. Trying to discredit peoples points by claiming they are bias is like trying to discredit them by saying they are breathing. We all have an ax to grind.
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On March 08 2014 21:56 sage_francis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2014 06:52 TheDwf wrote:On March 08 2014 06:03 DinoMight wrote:
There's always going to be cheese. Always. In every RTS unless you have NR X minutes people will find cheese.
The first thing I ever did in Age of Empires when I found out you could build with multiple workers at the same time was take all my starting workers, run to the enemy base and build a tower right next to it super fast. I won a lot of games doing that.
The extent that you'd have to go to to buff defensive play to a point where cheese was no longer viable would ruin the game.
All sports have "coinflippy strategies" not just esports. What is a Blitz? It's basically let's hope we can tackle this guy before he manages to throw it to a receiver we've left open. What's a hail mary? It's let's hope they don't defend this one guy and I can throw it really far. If you know these things are coming and you react properly you will beat them most of the time, except when you make a mistake. It's like Starcraft.
I think cheese makes the game fun. I honestly enjoyed the Has cannon rush vs. Jaedong. As much as I wanted to see JD win, the build was incredibly creative. Your strawman defence is so annoying. All-ins and cheeses are a legitimate part of the game. Pretty much no one except a negligible minority is saying we should remove this from the game or turn SC2 into some NR10. But. You need to factor in the concepts of 1. risk/reward ratio and 2. margin of error. When an all-in or cheese is... 1. easy to execute (and unlike what Plansix claims, the difficulty of something can be evaluated somewhat objectively, with the amount of tasks you need to perform, especially simultaneously, the number of times you have to move your camera over different stuff to manage it, the precision needed in your clicks, etc., etc.); 2. difficult/impossible to scout; 3. difficult to hold even when scouted, i. e. the margin of error is thin, very thin or non-existent; 4. and if, on top of that, the defensive side has to commit to the defense to such an extent the thing is no longer all-in or the attacking side has a smooth transition; ... then something is wrong. Remember the 1-1-1? It obeyed to the three first principles, and sometimes even to the fourth with the second wave killing the Protoss because the first one had dealt so much damage. Protoss players had no troubles identifying these issues when they were on the receiving end of the broken stuff, yet oddly enough they refuse to see it when they're the ones with the broken tools in their hands? What would you have said to a Terran singing the "You want the death of cheese" chorus when facing Protoss arguments against 1-1-1? Would you have agreed with him? Would you have endured patiently anonymous mid-GM Terrans occasionally winning MC or PartinG with unscoutable, unstoppable pushes? No, you would have answered, "I simply want your stuff to be less deadly, more scoutable, and overall fairer". It's the same thing here. This.... One post of this guy is worth 1000 plansix ones...
And that is NOT a hyperbole!
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Look at hero (both) style, aggressive and multi tasking focus with storm drop and chargelot runby/drops etc
Late game perhaps. But in midgame, they simply have to sit defending their natural or 3rd against both terran and zerg. Unless ofc they go for the allins. And then ofc you could say that blink stalkers and Sentinels aren't all ins, but the risk/reward of these builds are so dumb so they actually should be all ins given how easy it is win straight up with them.
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DT was shit against 1/1/1 because you always got a raven, wtf DinoMight.
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On March 09 2014 03:38 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 03:28 Rowrin wrote:On March 09 2014 03:26 DinoMight wrote:On March 08 2014 23:03 Chaggi wrote:On March 08 2014 22:01 Faust852 wrote:The funniest fact is that when theDwf speaks, everyone is shut up afterward. No more argument against that kind of logic Cause they can't say anything cause none of them actually says something of value or with proof and reasoning. They shut the fuck up until people forget TheDwf's post and they'll come posting the same shit again. ... he is so incredibly biased ... This... coming from you? ... I actually play all three races quite a lot. I may seem biased because of my writing style, but I think I'm actually fairly reasonable in terms of being partial to one race.
On December 18 2013 08:09 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 07:59 Survivor61316 wrote:On December 18 2013 07:31 DinoMight wrote:On December 18 2013 07:16 Survivor61316 wrote:On December 17 2013 16:29 JSK wrote:On December 17 2013 15:44 Survivor61316 wrote:
Well I think I'm finally switching races..Terran is just too hard to play anymore. TvP is clearly broken, and I feel like TvZ is slowing slipping to favoring the zerg. So I guess its time to learn zerg..I just have too much self-respect to play as a race as broken as toss. But not too much self respect to bitch about it on the forums. What a surprise! Lmao..I love little kids like you on the internet. Being able to just shit on people without having to worry about real life consequences has warped your little brain so much. I fail to see how me typing out one sentence saying I'm switching races, even with a dig at toss, constitutes "bitching." Go back to school and expand your vocabulary... "..I just have too much self-respect to play as a race as broken as toss" Rofl. People like you who equate playing terran to fucking buying your coffee from the local store are the worst kind of "little kid" on TL. If you want to switch races, you're free to do so. But if you're going to insult Protoss players doing it by implying that we have no self respect, people are going to get mad at you and you just have to deal with it. Ok first of all I hate coffee..and idk if youve been reading everything thats been posted on this forum, but I am far from the only one who thinks that protoss is an easy to use, low-skill ceiling, terribly designed race. Particularly in PvT..deathball with storms and colossi is so brainlessly easy its sickening to even watch anymore. Even Demuslim, a notoriously well mannered guy, was talking about how broken the MU is on his stream just 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately there's nothing that can really be done to balance it because then PvZ would be broken instead, hence the reason for switching races. And really, if youre gonna sit there and try to tell me that Toss isnt op then yes, I am going to continue to question whether you have self respect or not; brotoss fanboys are just as bad now as patch zergs were at the end of WOL..I'm just waiting for someone to finally pull a ryung and throw up an "IMBA IMBA IMBA..." I played Protoss in 1998 when StarCraft came out. I played Protoss when Brood War came out and until StarCraft 2. I played Protoss through the GomTvT era when 1/1/1 dominated the matchup and everyone was complaining. I played Protoss through the patchzerg era and Infestor/Brood Lord days where it was "allin or die to Brood Lords." I played Protoss through the Hots beta and early Hots when widow mine and Hellbat drops were imba as fuck. And I still play Protoss now, when finally, Protoss seems to be the race to hate. You may think that because you play Terran in a "tough time for Terran" that makes you special shit, but keep in mind that this back and forth between the races has been going on for a long time. And to say someone has no self respect because they play a race that is strong now is dumb, especially if they played it when it was statistically, BY FAR, the worst race. You may disagree on perceived balance, but don't think for a second that playing Terran is more noble than the other races. If that's how you see it, I suggest you try your hand at PvZ and let me know how easy and broken it feels.
I found this gem. Took me a minute because I wanted to see your perspective on two major "imbalanced eras" of SC2. Looks to me that you're quite invested in Protoss!
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On March 09 2014 04:27 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 03:38 DinoMight wrote:On March 09 2014 03:28 Rowrin wrote:On March 09 2014 03:26 DinoMight wrote:On March 08 2014 23:03 Chaggi wrote:On March 08 2014 22:01 Faust852 wrote:The funniest fact is that when theDwf speaks, everyone is shut up afterward. No more argument against that kind of logic Cause they can't say anything cause none of them actually says something of value or with proof and reasoning. They shut the fuck up until people forget TheDwf's post and they'll come posting the same shit again. ... he is so incredibly biased ... This... coming from you? ... I actually play all three races quite a lot. I may seem biased because of my writing style, but I think I'm actually fairly reasonable in terms of being partial to one race. Show nested quote +On December 18 2013 08:09 DinoMight wrote:On December 18 2013 07:59 Survivor61316 wrote:On December 18 2013 07:31 DinoMight wrote:On December 18 2013 07:16 Survivor61316 wrote:On December 17 2013 16:29 JSK wrote:On December 17 2013 15:44 Survivor61316 wrote:
Well I think I'm finally switching races..Terran is just too hard to play anymore. TvP is clearly broken, and I feel like TvZ is slowing slipping to favoring the zerg. So I guess its time to learn zerg..I just have too much self-respect to play as a race as broken as toss. But not too much self respect to bitch about it on the forums. What a surprise! Lmao..I love little kids like you on the internet. Being able to just shit on people without having to worry about real life consequences has warped your little brain so much. I fail to see how me typing out one sentence saying I'm switching races, even with a dig at toss, constitutes "bitching." Go back to school and expand your vocabulary... "..I just have too much self-respect to play as a race as broken as toss" Rofl. People like you who equate playing terran to fucking buying your coffee from the local store are the worst kind of "little kid" on TL. If you want to switch races, you're free to do so. But if you're going to insult Protoss players doing it by implying that we have no self respect, people are going to get mad at you and you just have to deal with it. Ok first of all I hate coffee..and idk if youve been reading everything thats been posted on this forum, but I am far from the only one who thinks that protoss is an easy to use, low-skill ceiling, terribly designed race. Particularly in PvT..deathball with storms and colossi is so brainlessly easy its sickening to even watch anymore. Even Demuslim, a notoriously well mannered guy, was talking about how broken the MU is on his stream just 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately there's nothing that can really be done to balance it because then PvZ would be broken instead, hence the reason for switching races. And really, if youre gonna sit there and try to tell me that Toss isnt op then yes, I am going to continue to question whether you have self respect or not; brotoss fanboys are just as bad now as patch zergs were at the end of WOL..I'm just waiting for someone to finally pull a ryung and throw up an "IMBA IMBA IMBA..." I played Protoss in 1998 when StarCraft came out. I played Protoss when Brood War came out and until StarCraft 2. I played Protoss through the GomTvT era when 1/1/1 dominated the matchup and everyone was complaining. I played Protoss through the patchzerg era and Infestor/Brood Lord days where it was "allin or die to Brood Lords." I played Protoss through the Hots beta and early Hots when widow mine and Hellbat drops were imba as fuck. And I still play Protoss now, when finally, Protoss seems to be the race to hate. You may think that because you play Terran in a "tough time for Terran" that makes you special shit, but keep in mind that this back and forth between the races has been going on for a long time. And to say someone has no self respect because they play a race that is strong now is dumb, especially if they played it when it was statistically, BY FAR, the worst race. You may disagree on perceived balance, but don't think for a second that playing Terran is more noble than the other races. If that's how you see it, I suggest you try your hand at PvZ and let me know how easy and broken it feels. I found this gem. Took me a minute because I wanted to see your perspective on two major "imbalanced eras" of SC2. Looks to me that you're quite invested in Protoss!
Congratulations. You've discovered... that I main Protoss? What's the point of this post?
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On March 09 2014 04:07 Faust852 wrote:
DT was shit against 1/1/1 because you always got a raven, wtf DinoMight.
One base, limited on scans. You could pin him in his base with the 1 raven, or if he went banshees first you could actually get a few kills in.
Don't hate, I've seen pros win with it.
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On March 09 2014 04:37 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 04:27 ssxsilver wrote:On March 09 2014 03:38 DinoMight wrote:On March 09 2014 03:28 Rowrin wrote:On March 09 2014 03:26 DinoMight wrote:On March 08 2014 23:03 Chaggi wrote:On March 08 2014 22:01 Faust852 wrote:The funniest fact is that when theDwf speaks, everyone is shut up afterward. No more argument against that kind of logic Cause they can't say anything cause none of them actually says something of value or with proof and reasoning. They shut the fuck up until people forget TheDwf's post and they'll come posting the same shit again. ... he is so incredibly biased ... This... coming from you? ... I actually play all three races quite a lot. I may seem biased because of my writing style, but I think I'm actually fairly reasonable in terms of being partial to one race. On December 18 2013 08:09 DinoMight wrote:On December 18 2013 07:59 Survivor61316 wrote:On December 18 2013 07:31 DinoMight wrote:On December 18 2013 07:16 Survivor61316 wrote:On December 17 2013 16:29 JSK wrote:On December 17 2013 15:44 Survivor61316 wrote:
Well I think I'm finally switching races..Terran is just too hard to play anymore. TvP is clearly broken, and I feel like TvZ is slowing slipping to favoring the zerg. So I guess its time to learn zerg..I just have too much self-respect to play as a race as broken as toss. But not too much self respect to bitch about it on the forums. What a surprise! Lmao..I love little kids like you on the internet. Being able to just shit on people without having to worry about real life consequences has warped your little brain so much. I fail to see how me typing out one sentence saying I'm switching races, even with a dig at toss, constitutes "bitching." Go back to school and expand your vocabulary... "..I just have too much self-respect to play as a race as broken as toss" Rofl. People like you who equate playing terran to fucking buying your coffee from the local store are the worst kind of "little kid" on TL. If you want to switch races, you're free to do so. But if you're going to insult Protoss players doing it by implying that we have no self respect, people are going to get mad at you and you just have to deal with it. Ok first of all I hate coffee..and idk if youve been reading everything thats been posted on this forum, but I am far from the only one who thinks that protoss is an easy to use, low-skill ceiling, terribly designed race. Particularly in PvT..deathball with storms and colossi is so brainlessly easy its sickening to even watch anymore. Even Demuslim, a notoriously well mannered guy, was talking about how broken the MU is on his stream just 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately there's nothing that can really be done to balance it because then PvZ would be broken instead, hence the reason for switching races. And really, if youre gonna sit there and try to tell me that Toss isnt op then yes, I am going to continue to question whether you have self respect or not; brotoss fanboys are just as bad now as patch zergs were at the end of WOL..I'm just waiting for someone to finally pull a ryung and throw up an "IMBA IMBA IMBA..." I played Protoss in 1998 when StarCraft came out. I played Protoss when Brood War came out and until StarCraft 2. I played Protoss through the GomTvT era when 1/1/1 dominated the matchup and everyone was complaining. I played Protoss through the patchzerg era and Infestor/Brood Lord days where it was "allin or die to Brood Lords." I played Protoss through the Hots beta and early Hots when widow mine and Hellbat drops were imba as fuck. And I still play Protoss now, when finally, Protoss seems to be the race to hate. You may think that because you play Terran in a "tough time for Terran" that makes you special shit, but keep in mind that this back and forth between the races has been going on for a long time. And to say someone has no self respect because they play a race that is strong now is dumb, especially if they played it when it was statistically, BY FAR, the worst race. You may disagree on perceived balance, but don't think for a second that playing Terran is more noble than the other races. If that's how you see it, I suggest you try your hand at PvZ and let me know how easy and broken it feels. I found this gem. Took me a minute because I wanted to see your perspective on two major "imbalanced eras" of SC2. Looks to me that you're quite invested in Protoss! Congratulations. You've discovered... that I main Protoss? What's the point of this post?
That this post was utter BS:
On March 09 2014 03:38 DinoMight wrote:
I actually play all three races quite a lot. I may seem biased because of my writing style, but I think I'm actually fairly reasonable in terms of being partial to one race.
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On March 09 2014 04:38 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 04:37 DinoMight wrote:On March 09 2014 04:27 ssxsilver wrote:On March 09 2014 03:38 DinoMight wrote:On March 09 2014 03:28 Rowrin wrote:On March 09 2014 03:26 DinoMight wrote:On March 08 2014 23:03 Chaggi wrote:On March 08 2014 22:01 Faust852 wrote:The funniest fact is that when theDwf speaks, everyone is shut up afterward. No more argument against that kind of logic Cause they can't say anything cause none of them actually says something of value or with proof and reasoning. They shut the fuck up until people forget TheDwf's post and they'll come posting the same shit again. ... he is so incredibly biased ... This... coming from you? ... I actually play all three races quite a lot. I may seem biased because of my writing style, but I think I'm actually fairly reasonable in terms of being partial to one race. On December 18 2013 08:09 DinoMight wrote:On December 18 2013 07:59 Survivor61316 wrote:On December 18 2013 07:31 DinoMight wrote:On December 18 2013 07:16 Survivor61316 wrote:On December 17 2013 16:29 JSK wrote:On December 17 2013 15:44 Survivor61316 wrote:
Well I think I'm finally switching races..Terran is just too hard to play anymore. TvP is clearly broken, and I feel like TvZ is slowing slipping to favoring the zerg. So I guess its time to learn zerg..I just have too much self-respect to play as a race as broken as toss. But not too much self respect to bitch about it on the forums. What a surprise! Lmao..I love little kids like you on the internet. Being able to just shit on people without having to worry about real life consequences has warped your little brain so much. I fail to see how me typing out one sentence saying I'm switching races, even with a dig at toss, constitutes "bitching." Go back to school and expand your vocabulary... "..I just have too much self-respect to play as a race as broken as toss" Rofl. People like you who equate playing terran to fucking buying your coffee from the local store are the worst kind of "little kid" on TL. If you want to switch races, you're free to do so. But if you're going to insult Protoss players doing it by implying that we have no self respect, people are going to get mad at you and you just have to deal with it. Ok first of all I hate coffee..and idk if youve been reading everything thats been posted on this forum, but I am far from the only one who thinks that protoss is an easy to use, low-skill ceiling, terribly designed race. Particularly in PvT..deathball with storms and colossi is so brainlessly easy its sickening to even watch anymore. Even Demuslim, a notoriously well mannered guy, was talking about how broken the MU is on his stream just 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately there's nothing that can really be done to balance it because then PvZ would be broken instead, hence the reason for switching races. And really, if youre gonna sit there and try to tell me that Toss isnt op then yes, I am going to continue to question whether you have self respect or not; brotoss fanboys are just as bad now as patch zergs were at the end of WOL..I'm just waiting for someone to finally pull a ryung and throw up an "IMBA IMBA IMBA..." I played Protoss in 1998 when StarCraft came out. I played Protoss when Brood War came out and until StarCraft 2. I played Protoss through the GomTvT era when 1/1/1 dominated the matchup and everyone was complaining. I played Protoss through the patchzerg era and Infestor/Brood Lord days where it was "allin or die to Brood Lords." I played Protoss through the Hots beta and early Hots when widow mine and Hellbat drops were imba as fuck. And I still play Protoss now, when finally, Protoss seems to be the race to hate. You may think that because you play Terran in a "tough time for Terran" that makes you special shit, but keep in mind that this back and forth between the races has been going on for a long time. And to say someone has no self respect because they play a race that is strong now is dumb, especially if they played it when it was statistically, BY FAR, the worst race. You may disagree on perceived balance, but don't think for a second that playing Terran is more noble than the other races. If that's how you see it, I suggest you try your hand at PvZ and let me know how easy and broken it feels. I found this gem. Took me a minute because I wanted to see your perspective on two major "imbalanced eras" of SC2. Looks to me that you're quite invested in Protoss! Congratulations. You've discovered... that I main Protoss? What's the point of this post? That this post was utter BS: Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 03:38 DinoMight wrote:
I actually play all three races quite a lot. I may seem biased because of my writing style, but I think I'm actually fairly reasonable in terms of being partial to one race.
Sigh. Look up my bnet account if you want. It's DinoMight as well. I've been playing a lot of Terran and Zerg lately as well.
I mean, you can think what you want really it doesn't matter...
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EPT
