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Soundproofing continues to be an issue in Gom studio - Pag…

Forum Index > SC2 General
147 CommentsPost a Reply
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Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
February 06 2014 04:31 GMT
#41
How long until this unquestionably affects the outcome of the match? Wasn't it MLG that had a huge stink one time when a protoss knew something was up with crowd cheering (this must've been back in 2011)? I'm hoping for a fix and more pressure (Korean) for a fix.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
winthrop
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Hong Kong956 Posts
February 06 2014 04:38 GMT
#42
who cares. as a professional player you need to adapt environments and upcoming patches.
Incredible Miracle
rkshox
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan536 Posts
February 06 2014 04:38 GMT
#43
Is this the first time the problem has appeared? I never heard of any of the esF teams complaining about them during GSTL or previous GSL seasons?
@ranleee /// "first we expand, then we defense it'
thepuppyassassin
Profile Joined April 2011
900 Posts
February 06 2014 04:43 GMT
#44
Dude Gom, not cool.
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
February 06 2014 05:03 GMT
#45
On February 06 2014 13:38 rkshox wrote:
Is this the first time the problem has appeared? I never heard of any of the esF teams complaining about them during GSTL or previous GSL seasons?


I've heard rumours over the past few years though nothing concrete.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
February 06 2014 05:09 GMT
#46
There doesn't seem to be any convincing reason to believe that herO used outside sounds as a tell. It's likely that he was not looking at his phoenix at the exact moment it discovered the dark shrine, but saw the spot on his minimap a few seconds later and doubled back with his phoenix to confirm what was warping in.

That's most likely what happened indeed, that move doesn't look suspicious at all to me. Regardless, that's a bit disturbing if players don't play with a clear mind being 100% comfortable about this.
SunflowerSeeds
Profile Joined December 2013
90 Posts
February 06 2014 05:15 GMT
#47
On February 06 2014 13:38 rkshox wrote:
Is this the first time the problem has appeared? I never heard of any of the esF teams complaining about them during GSTL or previous GSL seasons?


In this GSL season, Stork said it first, and then some little guy (forgot name) confirmed, now Rain confirms again.
Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-06 05:36:58
February 06 2014 05:20 GMT
#48
Player booths need to have proper isolation and should definitely have background noise generators, (Wiki)Red Bull Battle Grounds New York City did this by using in-ears combined with a headset playing white noise on top and it worked out great.

If it is desirable to use 'noise' speakers in the booth + isolation ear-thingies + in-ears, i would definitely not recommend using just any dynamic soundtrack looped on top itself. Dunno what it's like in modern GSL right now, but: My worst experience with sound booths was from Proleague in Korea. I later heard that it was the same for WCS Season 1 Global Finals that were played in KR as it was the host region.

The way of doing noise isolation in Proleague was distracting, but for the sake of concealment it worked. For those that haven't been in a Proleague booth or attended the (Wiki)2013 WCS Season 1 Global Finals, it kinda goes like this:

You wear in-ears, music is not allowed except for in-game music. If you choose not to listen to in-game music at a blasting loud volume, you hear this:

The WoL sound-track, orchestra theme, not just one track, but a COPY of itself with some seconds delay at the same time being played from loudspeakers behind or in the booth. This thing playing at really high volume with its crazy fanfares at 4:07. You didn't hear this track one time, but two. They had copied it and layered it on top of itself. Think of opening this youtube link twice with a short gap in between.

It was a total mess and extremely distracting, but it did work in terms of hiding what commentators were saying and blending in with game sounds. However, there were also times that despite the track being double-layered with itself, it would be awfully silent. There was a change in dynamics, which was also distracting.

YES, as a pro-gamer you have to adapt to your surroundings, sc2-followers love to say this all the time. But feel free to open up the link above in TWO tabs in ur browser with some seconds in between with loud volume and try to focus on an attention demanding task with no prior practice. If you can do this, congratulations, you could do really well there



On the non-distracting side of things, white noise is great as a background noise since it covers the entire human auditory spectrum. However, sharp sounds (think of trumpets, human voices screaming, girls screaming) and sub-bass (like TB said u can feel vibrations too) can easily pierce through a white noise carpet given enough amplitude. I think the the king of all background noises would probably be a synthesized/composed low-dynamic mix consisting of:
- white noise with very slight variations in the spectrum (think of sparkly and deeper ocean-waves, kinda like clapping),
- random sine waves in the human voice spectrum to emulate commentators in a comfortable way
- random bass/rumble, obviously not so much that its felt in a distracting way but certainly something that will mask the game bass. kinda like this but not as disturbing and in different tones. Because we shouldn't hear a mothership core popping and we shouldn't hear deep-voiced commentators saying o-ooooh 6pool.

or u could do something cool like mixing in some recordings from the audience of previous events, add some reverb to make it a bit more mushy and less distracting and blast that on a speaker

i know i probably didn't contribute anything to the situation in GSL with this post but it seems pretty sad that there are issues with something that's as simple as this. some research and dedication to the craft will solve it. proleague's way seemed more like a duct-tape than anything to me, but it was way way better than having audible casters.

maybe not everyone take this seriously but i don't see a reason for it not to be a clear, set in stone type of thing with tested minimums that you know actually work.
Team Liquid
TAMinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2706 Posts
February 06 2014 05:21 GMT
#49
On February 06 2014 14:20 Liquid`Snute wrote:
Player booths need to have proper isolation and should definitely have background noise generators, (Wiki)Red Bull Battle Grounds New York City did this by using in-ears combined with a headset playing white noise on top and it worked out great.

If it is desirable to use 'noise' speakers in the booth + isolation ear-thingies + in-ears, i would definitely not recommend using just any dynamic soundtrack looped on top itself. Dunno what it's like in modern GSL right now, but: My worst experience with sound booths was from Proleague in Korea. I later heard that it was the same for WCS Season 1 Global Finals that were played in KR as it was the host region.

The way of doing noise isolation in Proleague was distracting, but for the sake of concealment it worked. For those that haven't been in a Proleague booth or attended the (Wiki)2013 WCS Season 1 Global Finals, it kinda goes like this:

You wear in-ears, music is not allowed except for in-game music. If you choose not to listen to in-game music at a blasting loud volume, you hear this:

The WoL sound-track, orchestra theme, not just one track, but a COPY of itself with some seconds delay at the same time being played from loudspeakers behind or in the booth. This thing playing at really high volume with its crazy fanfares at 4:07. However, there was a twist. You didn't hear this track one time, but two. They had copied it and layered it on top of itself. Think of opening this youtube link twice with a short gap in between.

It was a total mess and extremely distracting, but it did work in terms of hiding what commentators were saying and blending in with game sounds. However, there were also times that despite the track being double-layered with itself, it would be awfully silent. There was a change in dynamics, which was also distracting.

YES, as a pro-gamer you have to adapt to your surroundings, sc2-followers love to say this all the time. But feel free to open up the link above in TWO tabs in ur browser with some seconds in between with loud volume and try to focus on an attention demanding task with no prior practice. If you can do this, congratulations, you could do really well there



On the non-distracting side of things, white noise is great as a background noise since it covers the entire human auditory spectrum. However, sharp sounds (think of trumpets, human voices screaming, girls screaming) and sub-bass (like TB said u can feel vibrations too) can easily pierce through a white noise carpet given enough amplitude. I think the the king of all background noises would probably be a synthesized/composed low-dynamic mix consisting of:
- white noise with very slight variations in the spectrum (think of sparkly and deeper ocean-waves, kinda like clapping),
- random sine waves in the human voice spectrum to emulate commentators in a comfortable way
- random bass/rumble, obviously not so much that its felt in a distracting way but certainly something that will mask the game bass. kinda like this but not as disturbing and in different tones. Because we shouldn't hear a mothership core popping and we shouldn't hear deep-voiced commentators saying o-ooooh 6pool.

or u could do something cool like mixing in some recordings from the audience of previous events, add some reverb to make it a bit more mushy and less distracting and blast that on a speaker

i know i probably didn't contribute anything to the situation in GSL with this post but it seems pretty sad that there are issues with something that's as simple as this. some research and dedication to the craft will solve it. proleague's way seemed more like a duct-tape than anything to me, but it was way way better than having audible casters.

maybe not everyone take this seriously but i don't see a reason for it not to be a clear, set in stone type of thing with tested minimums that you know actually work.

interesting to hear your story nonetheless
1Dhalism
Profile Joined June 2012
862 Posts
February 06 2014 05:25 GMT
#50
On February 06 2014 12:50 bokchoi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2014 12:38 AnonymousSC2 wrote:
On February 06 2014 12:28 forsooth wrote:
On February 06 2014 12:20 Adebisi wrote:
Just about everywhere else couples helicopter headsets with the booths, not sure why Gom chooses not to...

Those things are so goddamn uncomfortable.


who cares? this ruins the tournament


i think the players might care.. maybe just a little..

obviously both are problems tho

Headphones being slightly too tight can not possibly be taken as a legit complaint. Even chess players endure bigger stress considering the duration of their matches.
And speaking from personal experience you won't notice them anyway. Your focus will be on the game.
TBone-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2309 Posts
February 06 2014 05:49 GMT
#51
I hope gom addresses this publicly, this is actually a big deal.
Eve online FC, lover of all competition
igay
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia1178 Posts
February 06 2014 05:50 GMT
#52
come on gom how is this even happening? it's 2014
MVP <3 MKP <3 DRG <3
SpeaKEaSY
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1070 Posts
February 06 2014 05:56 GMT
#53
On February 06 2014 13:31 Danglars wrote:
How long until this unquestionably affects the outcome of the match? Wasn't it MLG that had a huge stink one time when a protoss knew something was up with crowd cheering (this must've been back in 2011)? I'm hoping for a fix and more pressure (Korean) for a fix.


was this when HuK was doing a mothership rush and told SelecT to ignore the crowd because they were cheering for Halo?
Aim for perfection, settle for mediocrity - KawaiiRice 2014
Scarlett`
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada2386 Posts
February 06 2014 06:03 GMT
#54
Pretty much standard fare for LANs; though GOM is usually better than this :<
Progamer
Fearest
Profile Joined September 2011
854 Posts
February 06 2014 06:04 GMT
#55
Besides soundproof, I always thought looking at the audiences would somehow give risky plays a disadvantages at tournaments too. I think tinted glass where the players can't see out, but spectators can see in would be a nice fix. This also helps them focus
ProBot
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada170 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-06 06:13:08
February 06 2014 06:10 GMT
#56
All they need is a set of Peltors, seriously, thats literally ... all ..... they ............. need. ( added the dots for dramatic affect! )
Cheren
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
United States2911 Posts
February 06 2014 06:13 GMT
#57
Along with inconsistent champions this is a big flaw of esports where the game relies on imperfect information
Swede
Profile Joined June 2010
New Zealand853 Posts
February 06 2014 06:25 GMT
#58
They should just use noise-cancelling headphones, like Bose! : False. Active noise-cancellation works to lower the effective volume of certain frequencies sounds. It works well against sounds which are constant, such as airplane engines or air conditioning. It works very poorly against unpredictable sounds with a high range of frequencies such as human speech (or screaming).


That's not true. Active noise cancellation works using destructive interference (one wave played against its inversion = no noise), and it works for all sounds regardless of predictability. If they're not working they're not good quality. The music school I was at had a pair which could reduce the sound of a drumkit to barely audible (and this pair was only ~150NZD), and if you were wearing an in-ear set underneath you couldn't hear anything.

gasmeter
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom249 Posts
February 06 2014 06:25 GMT
#59
GOM really needs to do some tests to check how good the soundproofing actually is. It has never seemed to be a problem before, so it's interesting that this has just come up now.
Polt | MMA | MarineKing | Flash | Mvp | NesTea | INnoVation
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-06 06:48:23
February 06 2014 06:34 GMT
#60
What? Gom —and possibly others— don't use active noise cancellation? Sheesh. There should be game sounds playing in earbuds or in-ear headphones while having noise-cancelling circumaural headphones on the outside playing some noise.
I would think it's both cheaper, and certainly more effective than soundproofing booths.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
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