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On January 18 2014 02:59 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 02:35 Diogenes wrote:On January 18 2014 01:35 Dvriel wrote:
After half Code A finished we got in Code S:
3 Terrans
10 Protoss
7 Zerg.
Zerg representation is double the Terran and Protoss, ONLY TRIPLE. Do you need more data DK? The winnig % may not be the same, but who cares? I suppose we are going to see only ZvZ,PvP and PvZ in Code S. This may interest you,but as long as that league is not the "highest level"....
Even Korean Terrans are struggling, but while the ladder is "balanced" I suppose you and your bosses are fine.I hope you enjoy the mess SC2 is becoming. There are Starbow tournaments already and are sponsored. Its only a matter of time and maybe more professional hands for this "mod" and your SC2 will be absolutely dead.Nobody is going to play it, neither watching. I was so big fan of this game when it came, but now I am just tired of 4 years TvP same s..t and BIOBIOBIOBIO every single MU for Terrans.The promise for mech in TvP was the biggest change I awaited from HotS, but...there is nothing.
What are you waiting for???? For one, counting terrans who are already in is irrelevant. Maru was seeded from play that happened before the patch. There are only 2 terrans in Code S at the moment because Jjaki gave up his seed to go to Europe. Only 1 Terran has made it in from the first half of Code A. And that terran only had to play a mirror and a zerg. Every other terran was basically raped hard by protoss, including Flash. The 2nd half of Code A will definitely have some terrans if only for the fact that there are groups with only 1 protoss or 2 terrans with only zergs. What will be interesting to see is Innovation versus his all-protoss group. If Innovation falls out despite playing perfectly, it will be really frustrating to see. All the TvP's have been exercises in frustration. In addition, there needs to be an emergency ban to Daedulus. Seriously, has a zerg ever lost on that map? Every time a zerg loses a game, they just pick daedulus and know they will see a game 3 because zerg is so favored. We saw in proleague a super cheese to stop zerg on that map which Symbol easily countered with Nydus play. Terrans and protoss have to take a wide open, hard-to-defend natural followed by a wide-open, hard-to-defend 3rd, and then have a distant, wide-open, hard-to-defend 4th. There is almost no way to push out without getting hit by ling run-bys. Daedulus is quite literally the most imbalanced map in the game since steppes of war. Blizzard actually took us all the way back to some of the worst days of starcraft. Stuff like this is why David Kim gets a lot of hate. I think a chess analogy is relevant here. Jose Raul Capablanca is a chess player that was world champion for six years, although realistically he was the best player in the world for longer. He was known for his classically perfect play, in accordance to the rules of positional play. His moves still stand up very well to chess engine inspection, perhaps better than any other world champion. However, his downside was that he was, in Kasparov's words, calcified. In the end his play, although perfect, was too simple and didn't pose enough problems for his opponents, and this culminated in a victory over him by Alexander Alekhine. A much sloppier player, not necessarily with the best technique, but known for his "grand conceptions". He would get himself into very chaotic and dynamic positions that through unparalleled creativity he would find a way out of. He defeated Capablanca, who never took him seriously as an opponent, and was the world champion for another nearly twenty years. (mostly because he dodged Capablanca who couldn't get the funds for a rematch, but still  ) I think Innovation is a great player, perhaps technically the best Starcraft 2 player, but if he doesn't make it difficult enough for his opponents he makes himself too vulnerable and his play can too easily be exploited. Part of Maru's strength is that his opponents play worse because they never know what to expect. Creativity should be rewarded, don't you think? Nobody cares about who is the hypothetically best player if you play a Bo99 vs someone. If Innovation just does the technically strongest build of SCV pulling and loses he has himself to blame for not confusing his opponents enough. Also, Daedulus point might be bad for protoss, but they're still winning a lot of games on it. Maybe, again, it rewards creative play?
I like your analogy a lot. I think Flash is more like Capablanca though because I think mechanically he is the most gifted RTS player ever to live but his play is pretty rigid and he plays standard a lot of times. His lack of creativity gets him in trouble as well. Innovation is a lot like this too this but I think a little more diverse in terms of strategies. Also, I think Innovation's micro is a lot more consistent than flash's (Flash lost like a bunch of units for no reason in his Code A games).
Protoss's are all going to pick Yeonsu against Innovation and try to get a free blink stalker in. It will be instructive to see macro games from everyone in that round of Code A.
On January 18 2014 04:12 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 02:53 plogamer wrote:On January 18 2014 02:37 LSN wrote:On January 18 2014 02:29 plogamer wrote:
Ugh, "fun" is so damn subjective. on the one hand it is on the other hand it can be easily measured when looking at the player numbers. Obviously a game like LoL seems to be more fun and BW has had alot bigger audience and playerbase than sc2 nowadays has in korea as well. More popular, you mean. LoL and Dota2 is more popular because its much less demanding mechanically. I enjoy games with strategic depth, where I can outmaneuver and outsmart my opponents.. And I can still do that in SC2 more so than in any other games. For me, if the maps had more chokes, and high-ground advantage was bit increased, I'd be a happy camper. Also, to nerf powerful units that ignore terrain, like Collosi. I wouldn't say that LoL or Dota2 is more popular cause of mechanics. BW had brutal mechanics, yet it was far more popular than SC2 was ever at it's peak. It's 100% cause those games are more fun.
I really don't think LOL or DOTA 2 are more popular because they are strictly "more fun." They are more popular because they have a much bigger social element to them that draws people in. Team-based sports have always dominated in popularity over 1v1 sports.
Also LOL and DOTA 2 have Marvel versus Capcom variety to them where different heroes make for different games. SC2 tends to stagnate in terms of the meta. 4m Terrans versus Zerg mutaling was very fun and back and forth the first month but after a while it got stale. Brood War dealt with this by map variety.
Unfortunately, given how warp gates, time warp, and force fields limit map design; this is not an option for SC2. Opening up map design without fixing underlying game mechanics leads to crap maps like Daedulus where zerg collects free wins.
The fundamental flaw of SC2 is they ignored the principles of good RTS design; which includes having defender's advantage, have travel distance impact all races equally, and most of all have spellcasting be a support role and not be necessary just to survive the early game (i.e. force fields and photon overcharge). Otherwise, its not RTS, its just league of legends.
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On January 18 2014 04:27 Diogenes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 02:59 Grumbels wrote:On January 18 2014 02:35 Diogenes wrote:On January 18 2014 01:35 Dvriel wrote:
After half Code A finished we got in Code S:
3 Terrans
10 Protoss
7 Zerg.
Zerg representation is double the Terran and Protoss, ONLY TRIPLE. Do you need more data DK? The winnig % may not be the same, but who cares? I suppose we are going to see only ZvZ,PvP and PvZ in Code S. This may interest you,but as long as that league is not the "highest level"....
Even Korean Terrans are struggling, but while the ladder is "balanced" I suppose you and your bosses are fine.I hope you enjoy the mess SC2 is becoming. There are Starbow tournaments already and are sponsored. Its only a matter of time and maybe more professional hands for this "mod" and your SC2 will be absolutely dead.Nobody is going to play it, neither watching. I was so big fan of this game when it came, but now I am just tired of 4 years TvP same s..t and BIOBIOBIOBIO every single MU for Terrans.The promise for mech in TvP was the biggest change I awaited from HotS, but...there is nothing.
What are you waiting for???? For one, counting terrans who are already in is irrelevant. Maru was seeded from play that happened before the patch. There are only 2 terrans in Code S at the moment because Jjaki gave up his seed to go to Europe. Only 1 Terran has made it in from the first half of Code A. And that terran only had to play a mirror and a zerg. Every other terran was basically raped hard by protoss, including Flash. The 2nd half of Code A will definitely have some terrans if only for the fact that there are groups with only 1 protoss or 2 terrans with only zergs. What will be interesting to see is Innovation versus his all-protoss group. If Innovation falls out despite playing perfectly, it will be really frustrating to see. All the TvP's have been exercises in frustration. In addition, there needs to be an emergency ban to Daedulus. Seriously, has a zerg ever lost on that map? Every time a zerg loses a game, they just pick daedulus and know they will see a game 3 because zerg is so favored. We saw in proleague a super cheese to stop zerg on that map which Symbol easily countered with Nydus play. Terrans and protoss have to take a wide open, hard-to-defend natural followed by a wide-open, hard-to-defend 3rd, and then have a distant, wide-open, hard-to-defend 4th. There is almost no way to push out without getting hit by ling run-bys. Daedulus is quite literally the most imbalanced map in the game since steppes of war. Blizzard actually took us all the way back to some of the worst days of starcraft. Stuff like this is why David Kim gets a lot of hate. I think a chess analogy is relevant here. Jose Raul Capablanca is a chess player that was world champion for six years, although realistically he was the best player in the world for longer. He was known for his classically perfect play, in accordance to the rules of positional play. His moves still stand up very well to chess engine inspection, perhaps better than any other world champion. However, his downside was that he was, in Kasparov's words, calcified. In the end his play, although perfect, was too simple and didn't pose enough problems for his opponents, and this culminated in a victory over him by Alexander Alekhine. A much sloppier player, not necessarily with the best technique, but known for his "grand conceptions". He would get himself into very chaotic and dynamic positions that through unparalleled creativity he would find a way out of. He defeated Capablanca, who never took him seriously as an opponent, and was the world champion for another nearly twenty years. (mostly because he dodged Capablanca who couldn't get the funds for a rematch, but still ) I think Innovation is a great player, perhaps technically the best Starcraft 2 player, but if he doesn't make it difficult enough for his opponents he makes himself too vulnerable and his play can too easily be exploited. Part of Maru's strength is that his opponents play worse because they never know what to expect. Creativity should be rewarded, don't you think? Nobody cares about who is the hypothetically best player if you play a Bo99 vs someone. If Innovation just does the technically strongest build of SCV pulling and loses he has himself to blame for not confusing his opponents enough. Also, Daedulus point might be bad for protoss, but they're still winning a lot of games on it. Maybe, again, it rewards creative play? I like your analogy a lot. I think Flash is more like Capablanca though because I think mechanically he is the most gifted RTS player ever to live but his play is pretty rigid and he plays standard a lot of times. His lack of creativity gets him in trouble as well. Innovation is a lot like this too this but I think a little more diverse in terms of strategies. Also, I think Innovation's micro is a lot more consistent than flash's (Flash lost like a bunch of units for no reason in his Code A games). Protoss's are all going to pick Yeonsu against Innovation and try to get a free blink stalker in. It will be instructive to see macro games from everyone in that round of Code A. Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 04:12 Chaggi wrote:On January 18 2014 02:53 plogamer wrote:On January 18 2014 02:37 LSN wrote:On January 18 2014 02:29 plogamer wrote:
Ugh, "fun" is so damn subjective. on the one hand it is on the other hand it can be easily measured when looking at the player numbers. Obviously a game like LoL seems to be more fun and BW has had alot bigger audience and playerbase than sc2 nowadays has in korea as well. More popular, you mean. LoL and Dota2 is more popular because its much less demanding mechanically. I enjoy games with strategic depth, where I can outmaneuver and outsmart my opponents.. And I can still do that in SC2 more so than in any other games. For me, if the maps had more chokes, and high-ground advantage was bit increased, I'd be a happy camper. Also, to nerf powerful units that ignore terrain, like Collosi. I wouldn't say that LoL or Dota2 is more popular cause of mechanics. BW had brutal mechanics, yet it was far more popular than SC2 was ever at it's peak. It's 100% cause those games are more fun. I really don't think LOL or DOTA 2 are more popular because they are strictly "more fun." They are more popular because they have a much bigger social element to them that draws people in. Team-based sports have always dominated in popularity over 1v1 sports. Also LOL and DOTA 2 have Marvel versus Capcom variety to them where different heroes make for different games. SC2 tends to stagnate in terms of the meta. 4m Terrans versus Zerg mutaling was very fun and back and forth the first month but after a while it got stale. Brood War dealt with this by map variety. Unfortunately, given how warp gates, time warp, and force fields limit map design; this is not an option for SC2. Opening up map design without fixing underlying game mechanics leads to crap maps like Daedulus where zerg collects free wins. The fundamental flaw of SC2 is they ignored the principles of good RTS design; which includes having defender's advantage, have travel distance impact all races equally, and most of all have spellcasting be a support role and not be necessary just to survive the early game (i.e. force fields and photon overcharge). Otherwise, its not RTS, its just league of legends.
Well, I'd say that team based games are more fun for the vast majority of the people. The original comment that LoL and DotA2 are played more cause they have easier mechanics just felt like an underhanded comment about how easy the games are.
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On January 18 2014 04:55 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 04:27 Diogenes wrote:On January 18 2014 02:59 Grumbels wrote:On January 18 2014 02:35 Diogenes wrote:On January 18 2014 01:35 Dvriel wrote:
After half Code A finished we got in Code S:
3 Terrans
10 Protoss
7 Zerg.
Zerg representation is double the Terran and Protoss, ONLY TRIPLE. Do you need more data DK? The winnig % may not be the same, but who cares? I suppose we are going to see only ZvZ,PvP and PvZ in Code S. This may interest you,but as long as that league is not the "highest level"....
Even Korean Terrans are struggling, but while the ladder is "balanced" I suppose you and your bosses are fine.I hope you enjoy the mess SC2 is becoming. There are Starbow tournaments already and are sponsored. Its only a matter of time and maybe more professional hands for this "mod" and your SC2 will be absolutely dead.Nobody is going to play it, neither watching. I was so big fan of this game when it came, but now I am just tired of 4 years TvP same s..t and BIOBIOBIOBIO every single MU for Terrans.The promise for mech in TvP was the biggest change I awaited from HotS, but...there is nothing.
What are you waiting for???? For one, counting terrans who are already in is irrelevant. Maru was seeded from play that happened before the patch. There are only 2 terrans in Code S at the moment because Jjaki gave up his seed to go to Europe. Only 1 Terran has made it in from the first half of Code A. And that terran only had to play a mirror and a zerg. Every other terran was basically raped hard by protoss, including Flash. The 2nd half of Code A will definitely have some terrans if only for the fact that there are groups with only 1 protoss or 2 terrans with only zergs. What will be interesting to see is Innovation versus his all-protoss group. If Innovation falls out despite playing perfectly, it will be really frustrating to see. All the TvP's have been exercises in frustration. In addition, there needs to be an emergency ban to Daedulus. Seriously, has a zerg ever lost on that map? Every time a zerg loses a game, they just pick daedulus and know they will see a game 3 because zerg is so favored. We saw in proleague a super cheese to stop zerg on that map which Symbol easily countered with Nydus play. Terrans and protoss have to take a wide open, hard-to-defend natural followed by a wide-open, hard-to-defend 3rd, and then have a distant, wide-open, hard-to-defend 4th. There is almost no way to push out without getting hit by ling run-bys. Daedulus is quite literally the most imbalanced map in the game since steppes of war. Blizzard actually took us all the way back to some of the worst days of starcraft. Stuff like this is why David Kim gets a lot of hate. I think a chess analogy is relevant here. Jose Raul Capablanca is a chess player that was world champion for six years, although realistically he was the best player in the world for longer. He was known for his classically perfect play, in accordance to the rules of positional play. His moves still stand up very well to chess engine inspection, perhaps better than any other world champion. However, his downside was that he was, in Kasparov's words, calcified. In the end his play, although perfect, was too simple and didn't pose enough problems for his opponents, and this culminated in a victory over him by Alexander Alekhine. A much sloppier player, not necessarily with the best technique, but known for his "grand conceptions". He would get himself into very chaotic and dynamic positions that through unparalleled creativity he would find a way out of. He defeated Capablanca, who never took him seriously as an opponent, and was the world champion for another nearly twenty years. (mostly because he dodged Capablanca who couldn't get the funds for a rematch, but still ) I think Innovation is a great player, perhaps technically the best Starcraft 2 player, but if he doesn't make it difficult enough for his opponents he makes himself too vulnerable and his play can too easily be exploited. Part of Maru's strength is that his opponents play worse because they never know what to expect. Creativity should be rewarded, don't you think? Nobody cares about who is the hypothetically best player if you play a Bo99 vs someone. If Innovation just does the technically strongest build of SCV pulling and loses he has himself to blame for not confusing his opponents enough. Also, Daedulus point might be bad for protoss, but they're still winning a lot of games on it. Maybe, again, it rewards creative play? I like your analogy a lot. I think Flash is more like Capablanca though because I think mechanically he is the most gifted RTS player ever to live but his play is pretty rigid and he plays standard a lot of times. His lack of creativity gets him in trouble as well. Innovation is a lot like this too this but I think a little more diverse in terms of strategies. Also, I think Innovation's micro is a lot more consistent than flash's (Flash lost like a bunch of units for no reason in his Code A games). Protoss's are all going to pick Yeonsu against Innovation and try to get a free blink stalker in. It will be instructive to see macro games from everyone in that round of Code A. On January 18 2014 04:12 Chaggi wrote:On January 18 2014 02:53 plogamer wrote:On January 18 2014 02:37 LSN wrote:On January 18 2014 02:29 plogamer wrote:
Ugh, "fun" is so damn subjective. on the one hand it is on the other hand it can be easily measured when looking at the player numbers. Obviously a game like LoL seems to be more fun and BW has had alot bigger audience and playerbase than sc2 nowadays has in korea as well. More popular, you mean. LoL and Dota2 is more popular because its much less demanding mechanically. I enjoy games with strategic depth, where I can outmaneuver and outsmart my opponents.. And I can still do that in SC2 more so than in any other games. For me, if the maps had more chokes, and high-ground advantage was bit increased, I'd be a happy camper. Also, to nerf powerful units that ignore terrain, like Collosi. I wouldn't say that LoL or Dota2 is more popular cause of mechanics. BW had brutal mechanics, yet it was far more popular than SC2 was ever at it's peak. It's 100% cause those games are more fun. I really don't think LOL or DOTA 2 are more popular because they are strictly "more fun." They are more popular because they have a much bigger social element to them that draws people in. Team-based sports have always dominated in popularity over 1v1 sports. Also LOL and DOTA 2 have Marvel versus Capcom variety to them where different heroes make for different games. SC2 tends to stagnate in terms of the meta. 4m Terrans versus Zerg mutaling was very fun and back and forth the first month but after a while it got stale. Brood War dealt with this by map variety. Unfortunately, given how warp gates, time warp, and force fields limit map design; this is not an option for SC2. Opening up map design without fixing underlying game mechanics leads to crap maps like Daedulus where zerg collects free wins. The fundamental flaw of SC2 is they ignored the principles of good RTS design; which includes having defender's advantage, have travel distance impact all races equally, and most of all have spellcasting be a support role and not be necessary just to survive the early game (i.e. force fields and photon overcharge). Otherwise, its not RTS, its just league of legends. Well, I'd say that team based games are more fun for the vast majority of the people. The original comment that LoL and DotA2 are played more cause they have easier mechanics just felt like an underhanded comment about how easy the games are.
I play both sc2 and dota 2. Have had played tons of LoL too before I got bored. I have no reason to make underhanded comment about how easy dota2 is compared to sc2.
My ultimately point was that fun is subjective. I find the less demanding mechanics in dota2 fun for a change. I love the new dota2 mod Frostivus(?) because it's even more for relaxing.
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On January 17 2014 22:51 RampancyTW wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 20:56 NoobCrunch wrote:On January 17 2014 19:05 Ghanburighan wrote:
I'm sure they are not. They looked at proleague and stopped. Now Code A PvT is 13-4. But they're not saying anything. Welcome to the world of tiny sample sizes, Davik Kim. I'm glad that the guy in charge of balance is yet to learn the concept. David Kim would probably respond "No no no, you see Code A isn't the highest level". Anyways, the comment about pro league protoss performance in his balance blog contradicts his statement in the exact same blog post of not using small sample sizes.I don't know what the current balance of the game is. What's ridiculous though is that the lead designer of this game, a game I've been playing for 4 years and still ladder frequently on as its probably the last rts game ever, can't explain in a way that makes any matter of fucking sense how they measure balance. All they can do is sight some adjusted win percentage so they never have to work for longer than 15 seconds by opening a txt file and upping roach speed. Adjusted win rates were 50-50 in broodlord infestor era and the game was imbalanced back then. I'm pretty sure you have some errors in your formula somewhere. Do not blame David Kim for your lack of reading comprehension. And I don't doubt that the ladder winrates were mostly balanced during the BL/infestor era. It was a style that was easy to perform at the pro level but not nearly so easy at most ladder levels.
not sure what to say
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starcraft 2 is less popular than mobas, fact. It's not down to fun or to how mechanically difficult the game is or isn't, it's cause when you lose a game of starcraft its your fault.
You should have scouted more, or had more efficient multitasking.
In a moba you just blame the other guys and that is appealing to a lot of people. Listen to any LoL player talk about an evening of gaming and you will know it's true.
I like the direction sc2 is going, and the minor tweaks that are being made, I just wish protoss could only chronoboost gateways, not warpgates. 
//edit to bold some text 
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On January 18 2014 07:22 Detri wrote:
starcraft 2 is less popular than mobas, fact. It's not down to fun or to how mechanically difficult the game is or isn't, it's cause when you lose a game of starcraft its your fault.
You should have scouted more, or had more efficient multitasking.
In a moba you just blame the other guys and that is appealing to a lot of people. Listen to any LoL player talk about an evening of gaming and you will know it's true.
Yea, in LOL you blame your teamates for losing, and in SC2 you blame David Kim. That's actually fucking sad...
As a random player, you'll learn that every race is IMBA OP BROKEN. SC2 Ladder.
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On January 10 2014 11:30 juicyjames wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11224302374Show nested quote +As a follow-up to last week’s discussion on balance, we constructed a more in-depth look at what we’re thinking, especially considering how popular the topic is right now for this community. First, let’s take a look at what we’re seeing on the ladder. These are what the matchup win percentages look like per league across the three major regions, from the start of the season through today: + Show Spoiler [Click here for the win percentages] +Please keep in mind these are not straight-up win percentages. They’re win percentages with player skill factored out. When we grab win/loss data for balance purposes, we categorize each game with 2 different variables per side: one being player skill and other being race strength. So by factoring the player skill out, we are able to more accurately check how each race is doing at each skill level. As you can see, Protoss does have an edge in PvT that slightly surpasses the minor advantages existing in other matchups. Nonetheless, the popular belief that Terran almost never wins vs. Protoss can be put to rest. The data does suggest that yes, we probably want to make some minor balance tweaks if this trend continues, but we don’t have a clear indication that major changes are called for. We absolutely hear your concerns about GM league representation not being evenly distributed. Obviously, we’d like to see even numbers of players at every skill level, but this one in particular presents two issues: it’s a very small sample size, and it doesn’t represent the pro level very well in all three regions. This is not to say that GM representation balance doesn’t matter – it does matter. We simply believe in putting a bigger emphasis on the pro level as well as all of the other league levels. Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at. This is a time to continue discussing and reading your feedback on ways to slightly nerf Protoss or slightly buff Terran in the PvT matchup. Our multiplayer team’s focus going forward in the next weeks is definitely on this area. However, if the ladder data changes and/or if the pro level continues to skew, we’re open to changing our direction. We’ve seen plenty of times in the past where meta games change at the pro level, and that translates to changes in balance at other skill levels on the ladder. Please understand: we’re looking most closely at areas that you, the players believe to be the biggest issues. Please continue providing your constructive feedback. We always want to be as sure as possible when making balance updates to the game. Thank you very much!
Hope David Kim is paying attention to the GSL. It's not just a GM problem anymore. This has been one of the worst GSLs ever with a measly 2 Terran representatives. This is almost as bad as the height of the Broodlord/Infestor fiasco or the Terran fiasco at the beginning of WoL.
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On January 18 2014 07:22 Detri wrote:
starcraft 2 is less popular than mobas, fact. It's not down to fun or to how mechanically difficult the game is or isn't, it's cause when you lose a game of starcraft its your fault.
The 80€ price tag and no alternative digital distribution platforms also kinda plays a role in it's popularity.
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On January 22 2014 22:24 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 11:30 juicyjames wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11224302374As a follow-up to last week’s discussion on balance, we constructed a more in-depth look at what we’re thinking, especially considering how popular the topic is right now for this community. First, let’s take a look at what we’re seeing on the ladder. These are what the matchup win percentages look like per league across the three major regions, from the start of the season through today: + Show Spoiler [Click here for the win percentages] +Please keep in mind these are not straight-up win percentages. They’re win percentages with player skill factored out. When we grab win/loss data for balance purposes, we categorize each game with 2 different variables per side: one being player skill and other being race strength. So by factoring the player skill out, we are able to more accurately check how each race is doing at each skill level. As you can see, Protoss does have an edge in PvT that slightly surpasses the minor advantages existing in other matchups. Nonetheless, the popular belief that Terran almost never wins vs. Protoss can be put to rest. The data does suggest that yes, we probably want to make some minor balance tweaks if this trend continues, but we don’t have a clear indication that major changes are called for. We absolutely hear your concerns about GM league representation not being evenly distributed. Obviously, we’d like to see even numbers of players at every skill level, but this one in particular presents two issues: it’s a very small sample size, and it doesn’t represent the pro level very well in all three regions. This is not to say that GM representation balance doesn’t matter – it does matter. We simply believe in putting a bigger emphasis on the pro level as well as all of the other league levels. Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at. This is a time to continue discussing and reading your feedback on ways to slightly nerf Protoss or slightly buff Terran in the PvT matchup. Our multiplayer team’s focus going forward in the next weeks is definitely on this area. However, if the ladder data changes and/or if the pro level continues to skew, we’re open to changing our direction. We’ve seen plenty of times in the past where meta games change at the pro level, and that translates to changes in balance at other skill levels on the ladder. Please understand: we’re looking most closely at areas that you, the players believe to be the biggest issues. Please continue providing your constructive feedback. We always want to be as sure as possible when making balance updates to the game. Thank you very much! Hope David Kim is paying attention to the GSL. It's not just a GM problem anymore. This has been one of the worst GSLs ever with a measly 2 Terran representatives. This is almost as bad as the height of the Broodlord/Infestor fiasco or the Terran fiasco at the beginning of WoL.
Er...you do realise there are still four groups left, right? Comprising more than a third of the Terrans in Code A? A number of whom have been playing better than those who have already played recently?
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On January 22 2014 22:55 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 22:24 xelnaga_empire wrote:On January 10 2014 11:30 juicyjames wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11224302374As a follow-up to last week’s discussion on balance, we constructed a more in-depth look at what we’re thinking, especially considering how popular the topic is right now for this community. First, let’s take a look at what we’re seeing on the ladder. These are what the matchup win percentages look like per league across the three major regions, from the start of the season through today: + Show Spoiler [Click here for the win percentages] +Please keep in mind these are not straight-up win percentages. They’re win percentages with player skill factored out. When we grab win/loss data for balance purposes, we categorize each game with 2 different variables per side: one being player skill and other being race strength. So by factoring the player skill out, we are able to more accurately check how each race is doing at each skill level. As you can see, Protoss does have an edge in PvT that slightly surpasses the minor advantages existing in other matchups. Nonetheless, the popular belief that Terran almost never wins vs. Protoss can be put to rest. The data does suggest that yes, we probably want to make some minor balance tweaks if this trend continues, but we don’t have a clear indication that major changes are called for. We absolutely hear your concerns about GM league representation not being evenly distributed. Obviously, we’d like to see even numbers of players at every skill level, but this one in particular presents two issues: it’s a very small sample size, and it doesn’t represent the pro level very well in all three regions. This is not to say that GM representation balance doesn’t matter – it does matter. We simply believe in putting a bigger emphasis on the pro level as well as all of the other league levels. Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at. This is a time to continue discussing and reading your feedback on ways to slightly nerf Protoss or slightly buff Terran in the PvT matchup. Our multiplayer team’s focus going forward in the next weeks is definitely on this area. However, if the ladder data changes and/or if the pro level continues to skew, we’re open to changing our direction. We’ve seen plenty of times in the past where meta games change at the pro level, and that translates to changes in balance at other skill levels on the ladder. Please understand: we’re looking most closely at areas that you, the players believe to be the biggest issues. Please continue providing your constructive feedback. We always want to be as sure as possible when making balance updates to the game. Thank you very much! Hope David Kim is paying attention to the GSL. It's not just a GM problem anymore. This has been one of the worst GSLs ever with a measly 2 Terran representatives. This is almost as bad as the height of the Broodlord/Infestor fiasco or the Terran fiasco at the beginning of WoL. Er...you do realise there are still four groups left, right? Comprising more than a third of the Terrans in Code A? A number of whom have been playing better than those who have already played recently?
I called bullshit on that? Which Terran left have been playing better than Inno, Flash?
TheBest?
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On January 22 2014 22:55 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 22:24 xelnaga_empire wrote:On January 10 2014 11:30 juicyjames wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11224302374As a follow-up to last week’s discussion on balance, we constructed a more in-depth look at what we’re thinking, especially considering how popular the topic is right now for this community. First, let’s take a look at what we’re seeing on the ladder. These are what the matchup win percentages look like per league across the three major regions, from the start of the season through today: + Show Spoiler [Click here for the win percentages] +Please keep in mind these are not straight-up win percentages. They’re win percentages with player skill factored out. When we grab win/loss data for balance purposes, we categorize each game with 2 different variables per side: one being player skill and other being race strength. So by factoring the player skill out, we are able to more accurately check how each race is doing at each skill level. As you can see, Protoss does have an edge in PvT that slightly surpasses the minor advantages existing in other matchups. Nonetheless, the popular belief that Terran almost never wins vs. Protoss can be put to rest. The data does suggest that yes, we probably want to make some minor balance tweaks if this trend continues, but we don’t have a clear indication that major changes are called for. We absolutely hear your concerns about GM league representation not being evenly distributed. Obviously, we’d like to see even numbers of players at every skill level, but this one in particular presents two issues: it’s a very small sample size, and it doesn’t represent the pro level very well in all three regions. This is not to say that GM representation balance doesn’t matter – it does matter. We simply believe in putting a bigger emphasis on the pro level as well as all of the other league levels. Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at. This is a time to continue discussing and reading your feedback on ways to slightly nerf Protoss or slightly buff Terran in the PvT matchup. Our multiplayer team’s focus going forward in the next weeks is definitely on this area. However, if the ladder data changes and/or if the pro level continues to skew, we’re open to changing our direction. We’ve seen plenty of times in the past where meta games change at the pro level, and that translates to changes in balance at other skill levels on the ladder. Please understand: we’re looking most closely at areas that you, the players believe to be the biggest issues. Please continue providing your constructive feedback. We always want to be as sure as possible when making balance updates to the game. Thank you very much! Hope David Kim is paying attention to the GSL. It's not just a GM problem anymore. This has been one of the worst GSLs ever with a measly 2 Terran representatives. This is almost as bad as the height of the Broodlord/Infestor fiasco or the Terran fiasco at the beginning of WoL. Er...you do realise there are still four groups left, right? Comprising more than a third of the Terrans in Code A? A number of whom have been playing better than those who have already played recently?
do you realize that even if all terran left in coded A qualify for code S, terran will be the least represented race with 8 players ?
tip : this is highly improbable... we will have likely something from 2 to 4 terrans....
hope DK is proud of his thoughts lol
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On January 22 2014 23:05 xongnox wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 22:55 -Celestial- wrote:On January 22 2014 22:24 xelnaga_empire wrote:On January 10 2014 11:30 juicyjames wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11224302374As a follow-up to last week’s discussion on balance, we constructed a more in-depth look at what we’re thinking, especially considering how popular the topic is right now for this community. First, let’s take a look at what we’re seeing on the ladder. These are what the matchup win percentages look like per league across the three major regions, from the start of the season through today: + Show Spoiler [Click here for the win percentages] +Please keep in mind these are not straight-up win percentages. They’re win percentages with player skill factored out. When we grab win/loss data for balance purposes, we categorize each game with 2 different variables per side: one being player skill and other being race strength. So by factoring the player skill out, we are able to more accurately check how each race is doing at each skill level. As you can see, Protoss does have an edge in PvT that slightly surpasses the minor advantages existing in other matchups. Nonetheless, the popular belief that Terran almost never wins vs. Protoss can be put to rest. The data does suggest that yes, we probably want to make some minor balance tweaks if this trend continues, but we don’t have a clear indication that major changes are called for. We absolutely hear your concerns about GM league representation not being evenly distributed. Obviously, we’d like to see even numbers of players at every skill level, but this one in particular presents two issues: it’s a very small sample size, and it doesn’t represent the pro level very well in all three regions. This is not to say that GM representation balance doesn’t matter – it does matter. We simply believe in putting a bigger emphasis on the pro level as well as all of the other league levels. Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at. This is a time to continue discussing and reading your feedback on ways to slightly nerf Protoss or slightly buff Terran in the PvT matchup. Our multiplayer team’s focus going forward in the next weeks is definitely on this area. However, if the ladder data changes and/or if the pro level continues to skew, we’re open to changing our direction. We’ve seen plenty of times in the past where meta games change at the pro level, and that translates to changes in balance at other skill levels on the ladder. Please understand: we’re looking most closely at areas that you, the players believe to be the biggest issues. Please continue providing your constructive feedback. We always want to be as sure as possible when making balance updates to the game. Thank you very much! Hope David Kim is paying attention to the GSL. It's not just a GM problem anymore. This has been one of the worst GSLs ever with a measly 2 Terran representatives. This is almost as bad as the height of the Broodlord/Infestor fiasco or the Terran fiasco at the beginning of WoL. Er...you do realise there are still four groups left, right? Comprising more than a third of the Terrans in Code A? A number of whom have been playing better than those who have already played recently? do you realize that even if all terran left in coded A qualify for code S, terran will be the least represented race with 8 players ? tip : tis is highly improbable... we will have likely something from 2 to 4 terrans.... hope DK is proud of his thoughts lol
I would expect a number between 3 and 5 for terran represantives in Code S this season. I think at least one will get through somehow with 3 groups with 2 terrans in it still having to play. However, Terran is now doing poorly in ladder and in the highest level of competition. Even IF Taeja and Bomber wreck through WCS NA and MMA places high in EU, one can not deny this fact anymore. It should be obvious that especially top level terran players run away from korea to get the cash in easier tournaments.
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Well, guys, Code S is quite balanced actually, once skill is factored out.
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On January 22 2014 23:05 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 22:55 -Celestial- wrote:On January 22 2014 22:24 xelnaga_empire wrote:On January 10 2014 11:30 juicyjames wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11224302374As a follow-up to last week’s discussion on balance, we constructed a more in-depth look at what we’re thinking, especially considering how popular the topic is right now for this community. First, let’s take a look at what we’re seeing on the ladder. These are what the matchup win percentages look like per league across the three major regions, from the start of the season through today: + Show Spoiler [Click here for the win percentages] +Please keep in mind these are not straight-up win percentages. They’re win percentages with player skill factored out. When we grab win/loss data for balance purposes, we categorize each game with 2 different variables per side: one being player skill and other being race strength. So by factoring the player skill out, we are able to more accurately check how each race is doing at each skill level. As you can see, Protoss does have an edge in PvT that slightly surpasses the minor advantages existing in other matchups. Nonetheless, the popular belief that Terran almost never wins vs. Protoss can be put to rest. The data does suggest that yes, we probably want to make some minor balance tweaks if this trend continues, but we don’t have a clear indication that major changes are called for. We absolutely hear your concerns about GM league representation not being evenly distributed. Obviously, we’d like to see even numbers of players at every skill level, but this one in particular presents two issues: it’s a very small sample size, and it doesn’t represent the pro level very well in all three regions. This is not to say that GM representation balance doesn’t matter – it does matter. We simply believe in putting a bigger emphasis on the pro level as well as all of the other league levels. Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at. This is a time to continue discussing and reading your feedback on ways to slightly nerf Protoss or slightly buff Terran in the PvT matchup. Our multiplayer team’s focus going forward in the next weeks is definitely on this area. However, if the ladder data changes and/or if the pro level continues to skew, we’re open to changing our direction. We’ve seen plenty of times in the past where meta games change at the pro level, and that translates to changes in balance at other skill levels on the ladder. Please understand: we’re looking most closely at areas that you, the players believe to be the biggest issues. Please continue providing your constructive feedback. We always want to be as sure as possible when making balance updates to the game. Thank you very much! Hope David Kim is paying attention to the GSL. It's not just a GM problem anymore. This has been one of the worst GSLs ever with a measly 2 Terran representatives. This is almost as bad as the height of the Broodlord/Infestor fiasco or the Terran fiasco at the beginning of WoL. Er...you do realise there are still four groups left, right? Comprising more than a third of the Terrans in Code A? A number of whom have been playing better than those who have already played recently? I called bullshit on that? Which Terran left have been playing better than Inno, Flash? TheBest?
INnoVation hasn't been "amazing" for a little while now, many have commented about how his overly methodical approach is costing him games, and Flash has never performed particularly well in the GSL, he seems to just lose it (for want of a better term) at some point and come crashing out sooner or later. He's doing much better with Proleague though. Not to mention Flash was knocked out by BrAvO who in turn was taken out by Leenock; them dirty Protosses getting Zerg and other Terrans to do their work for them eh?
Honestly if you want names I'd probably give Ryung a good shout of qualifying. Same for SuperNoVa and Reality.
On January 22 2014 23:05 xongnox wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 22:55 -Celestial- wrote:On January 22 2014 22:24 xelnaga_empire wrote:On January 10 2014 11:30 juicyjames wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11224302374As a follow-up to last week’s discussion on balance, we constructed a more in-depth look at what we’re thinking, especially considering how popular the topic is right now for this community. First, let’s take a look at what we’re seeing on the ladder. These are what the matchup win percentages look like per league across the three major regions, from the start of the season through today: + Show Spoiler [Click here for the win percentages] +Please keep in mind these are not straight-up win percentages. They’re win percentages with player skill factored out. When we grab win/loss data for balance purposes, we categorize each game with 2 different variables per side: one being player skill and other being race strength. So by factoring the player skill out, we are able to more accurately check how each race is doing at each skill level. As you can see, Protoss does have an edge in PvT that slightly surpasses the minor advantages existing in other matchups. Nonetheless, the popular belief that Terran almost never wins vs. Protoss can be put to rest. The data does suggest that yes, we probably want to make some minor balance tweaks if this trend continues, but we don’t have a clear indication that major changes are called for. We absolutely hear your concerns about GM league representation not being evenly distributed. Obviously, we’d like to see even numbers of players at every skill level, but this one in particular presents two issues: it’s a very small sample size, and it doesn’t represent the pro level very well in all three regions. This is not to say that GM representation balance doesn’t matter – it does matter. We simply believe in putting a bigger emphasis on the pro level as well as all of the other league levels. Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at. This is a time to continue discussing and reading your feedback on ways to slightly nerf Protoss or slightly buff Terran in the PvT matchup. Our multiplayer team’s focus going forward in the next weeks is definitely on this area. However, if the ladder data changes and/or if the pro level continues to skew, we’re open to changing our direction. We’ve seen plenty of times in the past where meta games change at the pro level, and that translates to changes in balance at other skill levels on the ladder. Please understand: we’re looking most closely at areas that you, the players believe to be the biggest issues. Please continue providing your constructive feedback. We always want to be as sure as possible when making balance updates to the game. Thank you very much! Hope David Kim is paying attention to the GSL. It's not just a GM problem anymore. This has been one of the worst GSLs ever with a measly 2 Terran representatives. This is almost as bad as the height of the Broodlord/Infestor fiasco or the Terran fiasco at the beginning of WoL. Er...you do realise there are still four groups left, right? Comprising more than a third of the Terrans in Code A? A number of whom have been playing better than those who have already played recently? do you realize that even if all terran left in coded A qualify for code S, terran will be the least represented race with 8 players ? tip : this is highly improbable... we will have likely something from 2 to 4 terrans.... hope DK is proud of his thoughts lol
I'm actually putting together a thread with potential possibilities and the statistics for how the final qualifying lineup could end up so I didn't really want to bring this up yet but I guess I can let you in on a little secret:
Zerg are qualifying at an even higher rate than Protoss is. 66% compared with ~63%. Shock! Horror! Zerg OP! I bet its somehow a Protoss conspiracy like the one that got Flash knocked out.
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Northern Ireland27202 Posts
The most irritating thing to me is that high level players make good posts before patches or units go live that are ignored and then they get validated when it's live. Hell not even high level players, even I get it right sometimes :p
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Russian Federation125 Posts
On January 22 2014 23:13 ZenithM wrote:
Well, guys, Code S is quite balanced actually, once skill is factored out.
Yeh it's a shame that Maru won't be the only terran in Code S, because then he could show that terran race have 70%+ winrate in Code S 
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On January 22 2014 23:28 -Celestial- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 23:05 vthree wrote:On January 22 2014 22:55 -Celestial- wrote:On January 22 2014 22:24 xelnaga_empire wrote:On January 10 2014 11:30 juicyjames wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11224302374As a follow-up to last week’s discussion on balance, we constructed a more in-depth look at what we’re thinking, especially considering how popular the topic is right now for this community. First, let’s take a look at what we’re seeing on the ladder. These are what the matchup win percentages look like per league across the three major regions, from the start of the season through today: + Show Spoiler [Click here for the win percentages] +Please keep in mind these are not straight-up win percentages. They’re win percentages with player skill factored out. When we grab win/loss data for balance purposes, we categorize each game with 2 different variables per side: one being player skill and other being race strength. So by factoring the player skill out, we are able to more accurately check how each race is doing at each skill level. As you can see, Protoss does have an edge in PvT that slightly surpasses the minor advantages existing in other matchups. Nonetheless, the popular belief that Terran almost never wins vs. Protoss can be put to rest. The data does suggest that yes, we probably want to make some minor balance tweaks if this trend continues, but we don’t have a clear indication that major changes are called for. We absolutely hear your concerns about GM league representation not being evenly distributed. Obviously, we’d like to see even numbers of players at every skill level, but this one in particular presents two issues: it’s a very small sample size, and it doesn’t represent the pro level very well in all three regions. This is not to say that GM representation balance doesn’t matter – it does matter. We simply believe in putting a bigger emphasis on the pro level as well as all of the other league levels. Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at. This is a time to continue discussing and reading your feedback on ways to slightly nerf Protoss or slightly buff Terran in the PvT matchup. Our multiplayer team’s focus going forward in the next weeks is definitely on this area. However, if the ladder data changes and/or if the pro level continues to skew, we’re open to changing our direction. We’ve seen plenty of times in the past where meta games change at the pro level, and that translates to changes in balance at other skill levels on the ladder. Please understand: we’re looking most closely at areas that you, the players believe to be the biggest issues. Please continue providing your constructive feedback. We always want to be as sure as possible when making balance updates to the game. Thank you very much! Hope David Kim is paying attention to the GSL. It's not just a GM problem anymore. This has been one of the worst GSLs ever with a measly 2 Terran representatives. This is almost as bad as the height of the Broodlord/Infestor fiasco or the Terran fiasco at the beginning of WoL. Er...you do realise there are still four groups left, right? Comprising more than a third of the Terrans in Code A? A number of whom have been playing better than those who have already played recently? I called bullshit on that? Which Terran left have been playing better than Inno, Flash? TheBest? INnoVation hasn't been "amazing" for a little while now, many have commented about how his overly methodical approach is costing him games, and Flash has never performed particularly well in the GSL, he seems to just lose it (for want of a better term) at some point and come crashing out sooner or later. He's doing much better with Proleague though. Not to mention Flash was knocked out by BrAvO who in turn was taken out by Leenock; them dirty Protosses getting Zerg and other Terrans to do their work for them eh? Honestly if you want names I'd probably give Ryung a good shout of qualifying. Same for SuperNoVa and Reality. Show nested quote +On January 22 2014 23:05 xongnox wrote:On January 22 2014 22:55 -Celestial- wrote:On January 22 2014 22:24 xelnaga_empire wrote:On January 10 2014 11:30 juicyjames wrote:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/11224302374As a follow-up to last week’s discussion on balance, we constructed a more in-depth look at what we’re thinking, especially considering how popular the topic is right now for this community. First, let’s take a look at what we’re seeing on the ladder. These are what the matchup win percentages look like per league across the three major regions, from the start of the season through today: + Show Spoiler [Click here for the win percentages] +Please keep in mind these are not straight-up win percentages. They’re win percentages with player skill factored out. When we grab win/loss data for balance purposes, we categorize each game with 2 different variables per side: one being player skill and other being race strength. So by factoring the player skill out, we are able to more accurately check how each race is doing at each skill level. As you can see, Protoss does have an edge in PvT that slightly surpasses the minor advantages existing in other matchups. Nonetheless, the popular belief that Terran almost never wins vs. Protoss can be put to rest. The data does suggest that yes, we probably want to make some minor balance tweaks if this trend continues, but we don’t have a clear indication that major changes are called for. We absolutely hear your concerns about GM league representation not being evenly distributed. Obviously, we’d like to see even numbers of players at every skill level, but this one in particular presents two issues: it’s a very small sample size, and it doesn’t represent the pro level very well in all three regions. This is not to say that GM representation balance doesn’t matter – it does matter. We simply believe in putting a bigger emphasis on the pro level as well as all of the other league levels. Speaking of the pro level, we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from pro players that is contrary to what we were hearing from them last season. This seems to be mostly because of the results for Protoss pros this week in Proleague play. It’s the only major tournament going on right now, and it represents a sample size that is too small to draw any broad conclusions from, but Protoss players have lost at a noticeable clip in that tournament. As of this writing, they’ve recorded only 11 wins in 35 non-mirror matchups. As always, we’re closely following everything, and fortunately we have the WCS qualifiers getting underway to look at. This is a time to continue discussing and reading your feedback on ways to slightly nerf Protoss or slightly buff Terran in the PvT matchup. Our multiplayer team’s focus going forward in the next weeks is definitely on this area. However, if the ladder data changes and/or if the pro level continues to skew, we’re open to changing our direction. We’ve seen plenty of times in the past where meta games change at the pro level, and that translates to changes in balance at other skill levels on the ladder. Please understand: we’re looking most closely at areas that you, the players believe to be the biggest issues. Please continue providing your constructive feedback. We always want to be as sure as possible when making balance updates to the game. Thank you very much! Hope David Kim is paying attention to the GSL. It's not just a GM problem anymore. This has been one of the worst GSLs ever with a measly 2 Terran representatives. This is almost as bad as the height of the Broodlord/Infestor fiasco or the Terran fiasco at the beginning of WoL. Er...you do realise there are still four groups left, right? Comprising more than a third of the Terrans in Code A? A number of whom have been playing better than those who have already played recently? do you realize that even if all terran left in coded A qualify for code S, terran will be the least represented race with 8 players ? tip : this is highly improbable... we will have likely something from 2 to 4 terrans.... hope DK is proud of his thoughts lol I'm actually putting together a thread with potential possibilities and the statistics for how the final qualifying lineup could end up so I didn't really want to bring this up yet but I guess I can let you in on a little secret: Zerg are qualifying at an even higher rate than Protoss is. 66% compared with ~63%. Shock! Horror! Zerg OP! I bet its somehow a Protoss conspiracy like the one that got Flash knocked out.
But which you mentioned that a lot of Terrans that haven't played have been doing well lately. Which ones? supernova, Ryung, Dream, Hack?
Flash doing bad in GSL, 3 ro16 is better than all the Terrans I listed above. As for Inno not being amazing, he is still rank higher than the Terrans that are about to play. I told feel a couple will make it but it is mainly because if 2 Terran groups and slight weaker opponents. Not because they are better than Inno and Flash in TvP.
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Northern Ireland27202 Posts
I actually think Supernova might get through. Bar Maru who is more a micro monster, the Terrans that have been doing well in PL are doing unorthodox, prepared builds and he's always been good at that
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At this point, I think we shouldn't care about David Kim's balance thoughts, just that he is removed from future design of Legacy of the Void because that really is blizzard's last chance to get things right.
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Plus, the argument that Terrans eliminate each other is quite funny. Flash and Bravo played each other after both losing to their non-Terran opponent (and the winner got stomped by the remaining non-Terran, of course). SEE? A Terran eliminated a Terran!
At the bottom everyone plays Terran so Terrans get to win a bit of their games, is that it? :D
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ibcRpE9.jpg)
