David Kim's Current Balance Thoughts - Page 45

On January 17 2014 17:12 vthree wrote:


Hopefully they are watching the WCS qualifiers and Code A as well... Proleague is really bad in terms of statistics since it is so Protoss heavy and small sample size. So coaches will likely go with their best vP players (be it terran, zerg, protoss). Although TvP is 15-6 for P right now, Maru and TY are 8-0 (rest is 7-6).

On January 17 2014 19:05 Ghanburighan wrote:


I'm sure they are not. They looked at proleague and stopped. Now Code A PvT is 13-4. But they're not saying anything. Welcome to the world of tiny sample sizes, Davik Kim. I'm glad that the guy in charge of balance is yet to learn the concept.

On January 17 2014 19:12 vthree wrote:


Well, Code A has just been started. Hopefully they are looking at the games and come up with something before Code S and the main WCS NA/EU starts.

On January 17 2014 19:31 Micro_Jackson wrote:


Maybe its a reaction to pro feedback. Almost everyone mentioned that the Overcharge nurf will do nothing for T/Z because it doesn´t matter early game and is timing based midgame, but has the potential to make PvP worse.

Or they are seeing BL/Swarmhost as a problem that has to be addressed first.

Or the Blizzard HQ has been overrun by a local zombie apocalypse. According to their community communication the last thing is as likely as the other two options.

On January 17 2014 19:12 vthree wrote:


Well, Code A has just been started. Hopefully they are looking at the games and come up with something before Code S and the main WCS NA/EU starts.

On January 17 2014 20:10 SeventhPride wrote:

Personally, I see there is no way they can do anything that can make the game popular again. Sure the game can have balanced win rates but there will never be "fun" in it except if we have a call for a complete redesign. David kim seems to have this idea that the game is fun when it is balanced hence why he is prioritising balance first but frankly said, I feel the new arcade mod starbow has more potential to be the true SC2 instead.

On January 17 2014 20:51 Hadronsbecrazy wrote:
10/18 players (potentially 1 more if MVPSuper wins his game vs Solar) being Protoss players who have qualified for Code S, compared to 2 Terrans T_T, surely that shows somethign is wrong.

On January 17 2014 19:05 Ghanburighan wrote:

I'm sure they are not. They looked at proleague and stopped. Now Code A PvT is 13-4. But they're not saying anything. Welcome to the world of tiny sample sizes, Davik Kim. I'm glad that the guy in charge of balance is yet to learn the concept.

On January 17 2014 20:10 SeventhPride wrote:

Personally, I see there is no way they can do anything that can make the game popular again. Sure the game can have balanced win rates but there will never be "fun" in it except if we have a call for a complete redesign. David kim seems to have this idea that the game is fun when it is balanced hence why he is prioritising balance first but frankly said, I feel the new arcade mod starbow has more potential to be the true SC2 instead.

On January 17 2014 20:10 SeventhPride wrote:

Personally, I see there is no way they can do anything that can make the game popular again. Sure the game can have balanced win rates but there will never be "fun" in it except if we have a call for a complete redesign. David kim seems to have this idea that the game is fun when it is balanced hence why he is prioritising balance first but frankly said, I feel the new arcade mod starbow has more potential to be the true SC2 instead.

On January 17 2014 22:14 Daralii wrote:
I don't think Kim has much of a say in unit design. If it's as close as possible to 33/33/33, he's done his job.

On January 17 2014 22:29 SC2Toastie wrote:

He introduces himself as lead balance designer.

On January 17 2014 22:33 TaShadan wrote:


He is more like a lead imbalance designer :D (ok just joking, i think the balance could be worse but the basic mechanics of the game are flawed and often lead to boring games)

On January 17 2014 22:33 TaShadan wrote:


He is more like a lead imbalance designer :D (ok just joking, i think the balance could be worse but the basic mechanics of the game are flawed and often lead to boring games)

On January 17 2014 20:56 NoobCrunch wrote:


David Kim would probably respond "No no no, you see Code A isn't the highest level".

Anyways, the comment about pro league protoss performance in his balance blog contradicts his statement in the exact same blog post of not using small sample sizes.

I don't know what the current balance of the game is. What's ridiculous though is that the lead designer of this game, a game I've been playing for 4 years and still ladder frequently on as its probably the last rts game ever, can't explain in a way that makes any matter of fucking sense how they measure balance. All they can do is sight some adjusted win percentage so they never have to work for longer than 15 seconds by opening a txt file and upping roach speed. Adjusted win rates were 50-50 in broodlord infestor era and the game was imbalanced back then. I'm pretty sure you have some errors in your formula somewhere.

On January 17 2014 22:51 -Celestial- wrote:
As I expected, lots of people gushing over the Marine saying about how its such a good unit and well rounded and not a problem.

That's the whole point. I mean come on people...just think for a few minutes. Its the reason splash damage is so painfully important in PvT, because it has literally no other weakness besides a susceptibility to splash. Stim means you can't outrange it for long if you even try. Its low HP means nothing to its sky-high ranged DPS and cheap cost; unless you're killing them in huge numbers with splash. So without a way to kill Marines en masse there is literally no way to win the matchup in the lategame because what are you going to do? Charge Zealots in there? Try to blink Stalker micro like you would against Roaches? Forcefields and...do...something...? Mass up Immortals? Carriers which get their interceptors slaughtered in huge amounts? Chip away with Tempest? Mass Oracles?!?

What about Zerg? What can they use against a ton of Marines other than AoE splash or lockdown in the form of Banelings and Infestors? Walls of locusts perhaps. Broodlings. But ideally you want Infestors to lock down the Marines to prevent them getting in range to kill your Broodlords and Swarm Hosts.

But this means that Terrans are forced into using Marines vP and makes them a focal point in many games vZ too. Because if everything else was as good as the Marine Protoss would straight up die. Every game. And Zerg probably would too. So only the Marine is this good and this flexible.

If you make the Marine less prominent through a nerf then you can afford to buff tons of other stuff. You could roll back some of the Tank nerfs for a start. Maybe make some changes to shift Thors into a better place again. Hell you could buff the bunker build time! Ok the last was a joke but still...