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On December 09 2013 17:42 Nuclease wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 17:07 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 09 2013 16:44 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Well everyone who ends up on a Team with Jaedong looks like an A-Teamer at best by comparison, FiWiFaKi. Nah, in BW it'd be like: S-Class: Flash, Bisu, Jaedong, Fantasy, Stork, Jangbi, EffortTop A-Class: Zero, Soulkey, Leta, Sea, Light, Best, Hydra, Violet, Hiya, ForGG, Kal, Calm Low A-Class: Hyvaa, Modesty, Hyuk, Skyhigh, Hogil, Really, Tyson, Jaehoon, Horang B-Class: Oversky, Trap, Last, Turn, Ssak, Grape, Zest, Barracks, Piano, Britney S- class = OSL/MSL winners, and other very notable achievements. A team's ace. Top A- class = Isolated OSL/MSL win case, or some other high-tournament placing. Get sent out every Proleague match. Low A- class = An occasional placing in Ro16 of OSL/MSL, usually is sent out during Proleague. B- class = Struggles through individual league qualifiers and maybe has achieved a Ro36 OSL; gets sent out 10-20% of proleague matches. C- class = Never sent out in pro-league, plays in some shitty non-OSL/MSL tournament trying to make a name for themselves, possibly acts as a practice partner to Kespa players but not on a Kespa team. I think according to this criteria which is something which I think is accepted by BW fans more or less, Revival would be a Low A - class player. Boxer disapproves this post. Sad to see Revival get enough exposure T.T
I just decided to put the 2008+ BW era, since I'm not very familiar with the stuff beforehand, and also the list would have been far too long. Plus there would be multiple era's, so while someone like July may have been legendary in 2007, he was pretty subpar in say 2010, etc.
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On December 09 2013 17:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 17:20 Bowzar wrote:On December 09 2013 15:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 09 2013 15:22 Bowzar wrote:On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG! What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it. Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG. What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30. Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?). Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess. Absolutely nothing shady about it. That's what most players are (unfortunately) worth to teams in terms of ROI. EG might be the "richest", but it also relies solely on player marketing for every cent of sponsorship money. Unlike teams like Acer or Team Liquid, which are backed by revenue sources not dependent on player followings, or even teams like Axiom which is knowingly run at a loss, EG has to hope the ROI from a contract term is at least a net zero. And they apparently use a shit-ton of metrics to valuate an appropriate salary. And a salary like $6000 might sound low, but the full investment on him is probably closer to 30k-40k for all travel and accommodations over the year.
Exactly, it doesn't matter how rich the team is. It's not like a team that has a larger revenue can offer a player 4x more just cause. If they have no way of advertising a player better than other teams, than the salary offered by the team will be the same as the salary offered by other teams. The only reason why EG is able to offer such high-salaries to some players is because they are able to market their own players and brand so much better than any other team. However marketing a Korean player with unoriginal style and lackluster performance is difficult, as he has nothing to differentiate him from the typical "faceless korean". That's why a lot of Korean players have an extreme difficulty gaining popularity until they are the best of the best, because before that, they don't have many opportunities to show how they are different or how they are likable people.
For example I'm sure Teamliquid has this problem with Zenio. He doesn't stand out from the crowd, and his performance isn't great enough for people to turn their heads. Only players that have a very outgoing personality, defining features, speak English, or play very well become popular. Players like MC, Nestea, Polt, Life, Maru, Jaedong, Marineking become popular, while others do not.
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Looks like aLive is on his way out as well:
Which is pretty sad considering whenever he does well it gets ignored.
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What a pity that EGTL wont participate in PL :/
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On December 09 2013 17:56 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 17:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:On December 09 2013 17:20 Bowzar wrote:On December 09 2013 15:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 09 2013 15:22 Bowzar wrote:On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG! What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it. Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG. What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30. Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?). Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess. Absolutely nothing shady about it. That's what most players are (unfortunately) worth to teams in terms of ROI. EG might be the "richest", but it also relies solely on player marketing for every cent of sponsorship money. Unlike teams like Acer or Team Liquid, which are backed by revenue sources not dependent on player followings, or even teams like Axiom which is knowingly run at a loss, EG has to hope the ROI from a contract term is at least a net zero. And they apparently use a shit-ton of metrics to valuate an appropriate salary. And a salary like $6000 might sound low, but the full investment on him is probably closer to 30k-40k for all travel and accommodations over the year. Exactly, it doesn't matter how rich the team is. It's not like a team that has a larger revenue can offer a player 4x more just cause. If they have no way of advertising a player better than other teams, than the salary offered by the team will be the same as the salary offered by other teams. The only reason why EG is able to offer such high-salaries to some players is because they are able to market their own players and brand so much better than any other team. However marketing a Korean player with unoriginal style and lackluster performance is difficult, as he has nothing to differentiate him from the typical "faceless korean". That's why a lot of Korean players have an extreme difficulty gaining popularity until they are the best of the best, because before that, they don't have many opportunities to show how they are different or how they are likable people. For example I'm sure Teamliquid has this problem with Zenio. He doesn't stand out from the crowd, and his performance isn't great enough for people to turn their heads. Only players that have a very outgoing personality, defining features, speak English, or play very well become popular. Players like MC, Nestea, Polt, Life, Maru, Jaedong, Marineking become popular, while others do not.
Liquid'Hero please. He is a great example of a typical, shy korean player who gains confidence and interacts more and more in English with his fans :-)
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On December 09 2013 18:25 mongmong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 17:56 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 09 2013 17:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:On December 09 2013 17:20 Bowzar wrote:On December 09 2013 15:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 09 2013 15:22 Bowzar wrote:On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG! What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it. Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG. What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30. Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?). Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess. Absolutely nothing shady about it. That's what most players are (unfortunately) worth to teams in terms of ROI. EG might be the "richest", but it also relies solely on player marketing for every cent of sponsorship money. Unlike teams like Acer or Team Liquid, which are backed by revenue sources not dependent on player followings, or even teams like Axiom which is knowingly run at a loss, EG has to hope the ROI from a contract term is at least a net zero. And they apparently use a shit-ton of metrics to valuate an appropriate salary. And a salary like $6000 might sound low, but the full investment on him is probably closer to 30k-40k for all travel and accommodations over the year. Exactly, it doesn't matter how rich the team is. It's not like a team that has a larger revenue can offer a player 4x more just cause. If they have no way of advertising a player better than other teams, than the salary offered by the team will be the same as the salary offered by other teams. The only reason why EG is able to offer such high-salaries to some players is because they are able to market their own players and brand so much better than any other team. However marketing a Korean player with unoriginal style and lackluster performance is difficult, as he has nothing to differentiate him from the typical "faceless korean". That's why a lot of Korean players have an extreme difficulty gaining popularity until they are the best of the best, because before that, they don't have many opportunities to show how they are different or how they are likable people. For example I'm sure Teamliquid has this problem with Zenio. He doesn't stand out from the crowd, and his performance isn't great enough for people to turn their heads. Only players that have a very outgoing personality, defining features, speak English, or play very well become popular. Players like MC, Nestea, Polt, Life, Maru, Jaedong, Marineking become popular, while others do not. Liquid'Hero please. He is a great example of a typical, shy korean player who gains confidence and interacts more and more in English with his fans :-)
But he was able to achieve this by winning a lot. By winning a lot you get more time to expose your personality and show the audience the kind of player you are. Revival has not had this chance... And I think LiquidHero is naturally just more friendly and lovable opposed to Revival. Taeja is like that too, he's just so damn cute and people love him. Revival doesn't scream "cute" to me, and even if he was, he doesn't have the chance to display it.
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On December 09 2013 18:31 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 18:25 mongmong wrote:On December 09 2013 17:56 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 09 2013 17:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:On December 09 2013 17:20 Bowzar wrote:On December 09 2013 15:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 09 2013 15:22 Bowzar wrote:On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG! What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it. Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG. What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30. Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?). Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess. Absolutely nothing shady about it. That's what most players are (unfortunately) worth to teams in terms of ROI. EG might be the "richest", but it also relies solely on player marketing for every cent of sponsorship money. Unlike teams like Acer or Team Liquid, which are backed by revenue sources not dependent on player followings, or even teams like Axiom which is knowingly run at a loss, EG has to hope the ROI from a contract term is at least a net zero. And they apparently use a shit-ton of metrics to valuate an appropriate salary. And a salary like $6000 might sound low, but the full investment on him is probably closer to 30k-40k for all travel and accommodations over the year. Exactly, it doesn't matter how rich the team is. It's not like a team that has a larger revenue can offer a player 4x more just cause. If they have no way of advertising a player better than other teams, than the salary offered by the team will be the same as the salary offered by other teams. The only reason why EG is able to offer such high-salaries to some players is because they are able to market their own players and brand so much better than any other team. However marketing a Korean player with unoriginal style and lackluster performance is difficult, as he has nothing to differentiate him from the typical "faceless korean". That's why a lot of Korean players have an extreme difficulty gaining popularity until they are the best of the best, because before that, they don't have many opportunities to show how they are different or how they are likable people. For example I'm sure Teamliquid has this problem with Zenio. He doesn't stand out from the crowd, and his performance isn't great enough for people to turn their heads. Only players that have a very outgoing personality, defining features, speak English, or play very well become popular. Players like MC, Nestea, Polt, Life, Maru, Jaedong, Marineking become popular, while others do not. Liquid'Hero please. He is a great example of a typical, shy korean player who gains confidence and interacts more and more in English with his fans :-) But he was able to achieve this by winning a lot. By winning a lot you get more time to expose your personality and show the audience the kind of player you are. Revival has not had this chance... And I think LiquidHero is naturally just more friendly and lovable opposed to Revival. Taeja is like that too, he's just so damn cute and people love him. Revival doesn't scream "cute" to me, and even if he was, he doesn't have the chance to display it.
Indeed. Revival just doesnt seem likable compared to Taeja and Hero.
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On December 09 2013 17:46 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 17:20 Bowzar wrote:On December 09 2013 15:30 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 09 2013 15:22 Bowzar wrote:On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG! What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it. Just from reading previous interviews with him it's the kind of impression I have. I don't have any specific examples, but I remember "don't cheer for this guy" in my head for whatever reasons he erks me - even though overall I like EG. What kind of salaries do you expect players get? I agree, 6k is pretty poor. But how many players do you think get paid more than 20k a year? I'd say less than 30 in SC2 (likely closer to 10-15). And Revival in my eyes is definitely out of Top 30. Edit: Only 28 players in SC2 have earned over 30k in 2013. EG players get to keep all their winnings. Revival has made 32k. So Revival's yearly earnings are 38k a year. Is that bad? Not very sustainable in a First World country... But seems to be above reasonable based on his level of skill. (Ranked 101 ELO based on TLPD?). Depends on the team but one would think that one of the richest esports team should be able to pay their players more than that. He might not be a fan favorite but he has still done well for their brand. Shady esports is shady I guess. Absolutely nothing shady about it. That's what most players are (unfortunately) worth to teams in terms of ROI. EG might be the "richest", but it also relies solely on player marketing for every cent of sponsorship money. Unlike teams like Acer or Team Liquid, which are backed by revenue sources not dependent on player followings, or even teams like Axiom which is knowingly run at a loss, EG has to hope the ROI from a contract term is at least a net zero. And they apparently use a shit-ton of metrics to valuate an appropriate salary. And a salary like $6000 might sound low, but the full investment on him is probably closer to 30k-40k for all travel and accommodations over the year.
I forgot about the EGTL house. With that in mind its not that bad.
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Korean curse, if you ask me. :-/
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i wonder why eg/tl didnt run in spl this year, they now have rly strong guns at their prime with jd one of top 3 zergs, teaja best terran and prob the best player right now. hero always good and with oz and jyp doing rly well recently...
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On December 09 2013 15:22 Bowzar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2013 15:09 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Revival just wasn't a very likable player, he doesn't seem like a nice guy either. Not too sad to see him leave EG, his salary of $400-$500 a month seems pretty justified for a caliber of player like him. A korean player with such poor results should feel pretty honored to receive so many opportunities to travel to events. Hope this means EG might pick a new Korean player. Let's go EG! What makes you think hes not a nice guy? Thats a shitty salary if its true. I wonder how many Koreans are getting ripped off without knowing it.
he prob had no salary at his previous korean teams, so ~;;; 90% of the other koreans would be happy to get a salary
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Wonder what moves EG will make. I could imagine them just sticking with Jaedong Korean-wise because he generates more exposure than their previous Korean roster combined. And team competitions aren´t very attractive at the moment.
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Isn't the culture of Korean vs foreign teams very different? Maybe Revival was upset due misunderstanding the expectations of him. I'm assuming in a korean team the coaches would get everyone their schedules (for example), whereas in a foreign team its pretty usual to see players figuring out the schedule of tournaments and what not mostly on their own, individually.
Just playing a little devil's advocate.
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On December 09 2013 19:38 jeri wrote:
i wonder why eg/tl didnt run in spl this year, they now have rly strong guns at their prime with jd one of top 3 zergs, teaja best terran and prob the best player right now. hero always good and with oz and jyp doing rly well recently...
Not worth the cost. They lost a ton of money with no results to speak of. Reminds me of when Fnatic tried to win GSTL.
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Im fine with this. Good luck to Revival and whoever decides to leave.
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So sad, good luck Revival hope you find another team, that can send you anywhere.
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GL. I hope he has the willpower to test himself in Korea, if that's going to be an option.
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Relevant
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xZPq8D8.png)
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Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
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On December 09 2013 20:59 boxerfred wrote:
Let's be honest, if we leave out the hipster fans, noone really likes Revival, aLive, or Oz. I was a Revival fan myself for a long time 'cause I kind of liked his early 2012 playstyle, and I was a a TSL fanboy for some time. But somehow I lost interest (found out about that Life kid royal roading back in 2012 and was thrilled). If that lobby talk is correct ("trash team"), I'm not having any respect for him left. It doesn't matter how good or bad your team treats you, as long as you're in it, you do not pull a totalbiscuit.
Well if I still had the twitch chat open I could have scrolled up and posted a screenshot of him saying "nono eg good team" as well, but he stopped streaming and I didn't have a need to keep it open.
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