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On November 22 2013 07:19 purgerinho wrote:
probably is my english but i don't understand that table, what is it for? slots etc.
i mean, table says: "In 2014, we will reserve most qualifier slots for citizens and legal residents of the home regions for both WCS America and WCS Europe."
and in article it is said that there is a chance 22 koreans will make it to premier...
can someone explain those numbers in table?
The reason there can be 22 Koreans in AM Premier is there are
* 7 who were top 8 last season (so they auto-qualify for season 1)
*12 who were in the top 24 of season 3 challenger (they have to win a bo5 against one of the new qualifiers)
*3 new Koreans who can qualify and play a bo5 against a challenger league player to get into premier (challenger is 48 people season 1 so they can fill up the premier league)
So if all the Koreans win and dodge each other, there could be 22 in AM premier.
Similarly, in EU there are 5 from top 8 season 3, 4 currently in season 1 challenger, and up to 6 could qualify (just for season 1) I believe, so there could be 15 in EU.
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On November 22 2013 04:58 ctbower5 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 04:57 ctbower5 wrote:
The prize pools have to change - especially if you're bringing in more NA foreigners. There's no way you can justify paying out the current money to a NA player not named Scarlett [or I guess Polt if we're going by Blizzard's definition]. Korea needs to be bigger - NA smaller - EU is probably fine where it is. I don't think enough people are acknowledging the viewership issues that may come with less Koreans in the bracket. Sure the TL crowd wants to cheer for the locals - but the casual fan is just going to see a crappy performance and move on. There's no way NA can compete with the talent coming out of EU
Much less ever hope to make a dent running up against Korea.
Everything has shown that the quality of the game is not as important as who is playing in it. Personality sells and local personality could sell all the more but it will take some time to build.
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1019 Posts
On November 22 2013 02:28 Incubus1993 wrote:
For quite a while until recently I was angry at the sheer amount of Code A/B level Koreans owning the NA region via online and knocking all the regular and up and coming foreigners out for easy money and points.
But after WCS 2013 and looking at the results. I have 0 sympathy for foreigners. Them or their fans shouldn't expect to be given any advantages, direct or indirect. If they aren't getting results, too freaking bad. The money and finishes should go to the best players, buckle the fuck down and practice more if you want to win. Stop streaming all the time and giving your opponents a platter of information to study if you want to seriously compete. Despite what some morons say, the overwhelming majority of skill doesn't come from them "being Asian/Korean". It comes from hard work, dedication, and practice..... practice..... and hey, you guessed it, MORE PRACTICE! If they don't commit hard to the game then they won't get results. Retire, get a job, or go to school.
However, after reading the post by Blizzard. I expect 2014 to be a much better year for WCS. They gained a lot of knowledge and experience from 2013.
I don't want to criticize others harshly but this is what I feel too. The Koreans spend 10 hours a day grinding in teamhouses, developing builds and studying game maps. If western players are unwilling to do the same, the gap level will always exist, no matter how much you try to game the system to try to make western players look better than they actually are.
People here mention how koreans have better practice environments and game traditions that comes down from BW but those are just lame excuses. Personal effort >>>>>>>>>>>> environment
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As a foreigner spectator I just want to say that I support no region locking. I dont care about anything like country of origin, or a foreigner with a 'personality' - I only want to view the best games of sc2. Thanks! xD
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On November 22 2013 13:06 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 02:28 Incubus1993 wrote:
For quite a while until recently I was angry at the sheer amount of Code A/B level Koreans owning the NA region via online and knocking all the regular and up and coming foreigners out for easy money and points.
But after WCS 2013 and looking at the results. I have 0 sympathy for foreigners. Them or their fans shouldn't expect to be given any advantages, direct or indirect. If they aren't getting results, too freaking bad. The money and finishes should go to the best players, buckle the fuck down and practice more if you want to win. Stop streaming all the time and giving your opponents a platter of information to study if you want to seriously compete. Despite what some morons say, the overwhelming majority of skill doesn't come from them "being Asian/Korean". It comes from hard work, dedication, and practice..... practice..... and hey, you guessed it, MORE PRACTICE! If they don't commit hard to the game then they won't get results. Retire, get a job, or go to school.
However, after reading the post by Blizzard. I expect 2014 to be a much better year for WCS. They gained a lot of knowledge and experience from 2013. I don't want to criticize others harshly but this is what I feel too. The Koreans spend 10 hours a day grinding in teamhouses, developing builds and studying game maps. If western players are unwilling to do the same, the gap level will always exist, no matter how much you try to game the system to try to make western players look better than they actually are. People here mention how koreans have better practice environments and game traditions that comes down from BW but those are just lame excuses. Personal effort >>>>>>>>>>>> environment
Environment has a much much much bigger role in Sc2 training than you give it credit for. In a team house your practice is always going to be more constructive and productive than outside of a team house, regardless of motivation.
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On November 22 2013 13:06 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 02:28 Incubus1993 wrote:
For quite a while until recently I was angry at the sheer amount of Code A/B level Koreans owning the NA region via online and knocking all the regular and up and coming foreigners out for easy money and points.
But after WCS 2013 and looking at the results. I have 0 sympathy for foreigners. Them or their fans shouldn't expect to be given any advantages, direct or indirect. If they aren't getting results, too freaking bad. The money and finishes should go to the best players, buckle the fuck down and practice more if you want to win. Stop streaming all the time and giving your opponents a platter of information to study if you want to seriously compete. Despite what some morons say, the overwhelming majority of skill doesn't come from them "being Asian/Korean". It comes from hard work, dedication, and practice..... practice..... and hey, you guessed it, MORE PRACTICE! If they don't commit hard to the game then they won't get results. Retire, get a job, or go to school.
However, after reading the post by Blizzard. I expect 2014 to be a much better year for WCS. They gained a lot of knowledge and experience from 2013. I don't want to criticize others harshly but this is what I feel too. The Koreans spend 10 hours a day grinding in teamhouses, developing builds and studying game maps. If western players are unwilling to do the same, the gap level will always exist, no matter how much you try to game the system to try to make western players look better than they actually are. People here mention how koreans have better practice environments and game traditions that comes down from BW but those are just lame excuses. Personal effort >>>>>>>>>>>> environment
Firstly, environment is extremely important, including the players' skill on the ladder (Korean ladder is vastly superior), their practice partners within the team house and outside, coaches etc. Those MATTER A LOT.
Secondly, the vast majority of Korean players do not spend 10 hours a day gaming. It has been stated in interviews that some Koreans do exaggerate, and the 10 hours would include the start of their practice schedule, to the end of the practice schedule, including breaks, watching TV series, movies etc. Most eSF houses do not have the discipline of KeSPA houses, which is also why KeSPA players caught up so quickly and are now the best.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
If having a team house, a coach, and a dedicated practice environment were so important, then if it is financially viable to do so or if there is enough desire for it, then a group of dedicated pros should make one. Continuously being the whipping boys of Koreans can't possibly be very lucrative, and if you really think you can compete with them given a better practice environment, then frickin make one. If you can identify a solution and believe that it can change things then why not follow through with it?
Ladder difficulty is harder to emulate though. Hopefully Blizz implement stricter ladder requirements for WCS.
Also Kespa didn't 'catch up quickly' lololol and anyway Kespa and Esf hardly mean anything now
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this change is absolutely useless... the end result would still be the same...
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On November 22 2013 16:05 lichter wrote:
If having a team house, a coach, and a dedicated practice environment were so important, then if it is financially viable to do so or if there is enough desire for it, then a group of dedicated pros should make one. Continuously being the whipping boys of Koreans can't possibly be very lucrative, and if you really think you can compete with them given a better practice environment, then frickin make one. If you can identify a solution and believe that it can change things then why not follow through with it?
Ladder difficulty is harder to emulate though. Hopefully Blizz implement stricter ladder requirements for WCS.
Also Kespa didn't 'catch up quickly' lololol and anyway Kespa and Esf hardly mean anything now
Agree. Out of the western teams like EG/ROOT they have team houses, but they seem not to use them very efficiently or at all compared to the Koreans. The same old excuses foreigners give on why there skill level is low is getting old.
EG players don't even stream as much and with the new set up in California I expect them to be way more competitive and on tier with some of the Koreans in WCS America in 2014, not many excuses left for them IMO.
Just like Polt said, effort goes along way.
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Canada16217 Posts
On November 22 2013 17:33 LingBlingBling wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 16:05 lichter wrote:
If having a team house, a coach, and a dedicated practice environment were so important, then if it is financially viable to do so or if there is enough desire for it, then a group of dedicated pros should make one. Continuously being the whipping boys of Koreans can't possibly be very lucrative, and if you really think you can compete with them given a better practice environment, then frickin make one. If you can identify a solution and believe that it can change things then why not follow through with it?
Ladder difficulty is harder to emulate though. Hopefully Blizz implement stricter ladder requirements for WCS.
Also Kespa didn't 'catch up quickly' lololol and anyway Kespa and Esf hardly mean anything now Agree. Out of the western teams like EG/ROOT they have team houses, but they seem not to use them very efficiently or at all compared to the Koreans. The same old excuses foreigners give on why there skill level is low is getting old. EG players don't even stream as much and with the new set up in California I expect them to be way more competitive and on tier with some of the Koreans in WCS America in 2014, not many excuses left for them IMO. Just like Polt said, effort goes along way.
eg players don't stream that much because they've been getting ddosed for the past who knows how long
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On November 22 2013 17:36 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 17:33 LingBlingBling wrote:On November 22 2013 16:05 lichter wrote:
If having a team house, a coach, and a dedicated practice environment were so important, then if it is financially viable to do so or if there is enough desire for it, then a group of dedicated pros should make one. Continuously being the whipping boys of Koreans can't possibly be very lucrative, and if you really think you can compete with them given a better practice environment, then frickin make one. If you can identify a solution and believe that it can change things then why not follow through with it?
Ladder difficulty is harder to emulate though. Hopefully Blizz implement stricter ladder requirements for WCS.
Also Kespa didn't 'catch up quickly' lololol and anyway Kespa and Esf hardly mean anything now Agree. Out of the western teams like EG/ROOT they have team houses, but they seem not to use them very efficiently or at all compared to the Koreans. The same old excuses foreigners give on why there skill level is low is getting old. EG players don't even stream as much and with the new set up in California I expect them to be way more competitive and on tier with some of the Koreans in WCS America in 2014, not many excuses left for them IMO. Just like Polt said, effort goes along way. eg players don't stream that much because they've been getting ddosed for the past who knows how long
These misunderstood people only want to make sure that DeMuslim doesn't give away his builds and is able to make it into WCS... 
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Why are americans so bad at starcraft? Are they just lazy and dont practise that hard? Didn have the sme problem in EU. This fix is just silly to me. Hey, americans are not that good at starcraft but instead of telling them to practise more and become better, lets just give them free spots into the wcs even tho there are players that are better then them. *roll eyes*
I can agree that only having koreans in WCS america is silly/ not so fun, but the question is why are americans so bad compared to koreans?
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On November 22 2013 16:05 lichter wrote:
If having a team house, a coach, and a dedicated practice environment were so important, then if it is financially viable to do so or if there is enough desire for it, then a group of dedicated pros should make one. Continuously being the whipping boys of Koreans can't possibly be very lucrative, and if you really think you can compete with them given a better practice environment, then frickin make one. If you can identify a solution and believe that it can change things then why not follow through with it?
Ladder difficulty is harder to emulate though. Hopefully Blizz implement stricter ladder requirements for WCS.
Also Kespa didn't 'catch up quickly' lololol and anyway Kespa and Esf hardly mean anything now
That is what I also think, instead players of complaining about the Korean teams with their superior practice environment (which is true), one should complain about non-Korean teams with their inferior practice environment. You can't tell me that something like that isn't possible outside of Korea, there are a lot of western teams who are financially a lot more stable than Korean teams.
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On November 22 2013 20:20 spirates wrote:
Why are americans so bad at starcraft? Are they just lazy and dont practise that hard? Didn have the sme problem in EU
If you look at a map of the world it'll make more sense. Aside from outliers like Naniwa/Stephano europe also struggles when koreans play there. When you've had champs like duckdeok and stardust you can't really talk.
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On November 22 2013 20:33 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 20:20 spirates wrote:
Why are americans so bad at starcraft? Are they just lazy and dont practise that hard? Didn have the sme problem in EU If you look at a map of the world it'll make more sense. Aside from outliers like Naniwa/Stephano europe also struggles when koreans play there. When you've had champs like duckdeok and stardust you can't really talk.
It might be, that the skillgap between EU and KR isnt much smaller than the gap between US an KR, but there are far more Players in EU, who are at a high (for EU) skill level. So, much more Players in EU would be able do get a win from a good korean Player from time to time.
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On November 22 2013 20:33 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 20:20 spirates wrote:
Why are americans so bad at starcraft? Are they just lazy and dont practise that hard? Didn have the sme problem in EU If you look at a map of the world it'll make more sense. Aside from outliers like Naniwa/Stephano europe also struggles when koreans play there. When you've had champs like duckdeok and stardust you can't really talk.
duckdeok 0:2 Dimaga
duckdeok 2:1 Dayshi
duckdeok 2:1 Dimaga
duckdeok 2:0 Stephano
duckdeok 1:2 Welmu
duckdeok 2:1 LucifroN
duckdeok 3:1 Naniwa
duckdeok 3:2 Grubby
Total = duckdeok 15:10 Europe
Call me the day Polt drops 10 maps to AM players.
Also Stardust didn't win WCS Europe.
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On November 22 2013 16:05 lichter wrote:
If having a team house, a coach, and a dedicated practice environment were so important, then if it is financially viable to do so or if there is enough desire for it, then a group of dedicated pros should make one. Continuously being the whipping boys of Koreans can't possibly be very lucrative, and if you really think you can compete with them given a better practice environment, then frickin make one. If you can identify a solution and believe that it can change things then why not follow through with it?
Ladder difficulty is harder to emulate though. Hopefully Blizz implement stricter ladder requirements for WCS.
Also Kespa didn't 'catch up quickly' lololol and anyway Kespa and Esf hardly mean anything now
Foreigner setting up a team house and working with a dedicated coach?
Yea right, there are not even actual coaches and no matter how many times we see the difference between one and not having one, EGTL being the prime example, they just refuse.
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On November 22 2013 20:59 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 20:33 Scarecrow wrote:On November 22 2013 20:20 spirates wrote:
Why are americans so bad at starcraft? Are they just lazy and dont practise that hard? Didn have the sme problem in EU If you look at a map of the world it'll make more sense. Aside from outliers like Naniwa/Stephano europe also struggles when koreans play there. When you've had champs like duckdeok and stardust you can't really talk. duckdeok 0:2 Dimaga duckdeok 2:1 Dayshi duckdeok 2:1 Dimaga duckdeok 2:0 Stephano duckdeok 1:2 Welmu duckdeok 2:1 LucifroN duckdeok 3:1 Naniwa duckdeok 3:2 Grubby Total = duckdeok 15:10 Europe Call me the day Polt drops 10 maps to AM players.
Comparing duckdeok to polt is hilarious. Polt won consecutive WCS America's ahead of guys like Taeja, JD and Hero. The 10 games dropped is far more a reflection on duckdeok's mediocrity than on EU skill.
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On November 22 2013 13:30 goswser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2013 13:06 white_horse wrote:On November 22 2013 02:28 Incubus1993 wrote:
For quite a while until recently I was angry at the sheer amount of Code A/B level Koreans owning the NA region via online and knocking all the regular and up and coming foreigners out for easy money and points.
But after WCS 2013 and looking at the results. I have 0 sympathy for foreigners. Them or their fans shouldn't expect to be given any advantages, direct or indirect. If they aren't getting results, too freaking bad. The money and finishes should go to the best players, buckle the fuck down and practice more if you want to win. Stop streaming all the time and giving your opponents a platter of information to study if you want to seriously compete. Despite what some morons say, the overwhelming majority of skill doesn't come from them "being Asian/Korean". It comes from hard work, dedication, and practice..... practice..... and hey, you guessed it, MORE PRACTICE! If they don't commit hard to the game then they won't get results. Retire, get a job, or go to school.
However, after reading the post by Blizzard. I expect 2014 to be a much better year for WCS. They gained a lot of knowledge and experience from 2013. I don't want to criticize others harshly but this is what I feel too. The Koreans spend 10 hours a day grinding in teamhouses, developing builds and studying game maps. If western players are unwilling to do the same, the gap level will always exist, no matter how much you try to game the system to try to make western players look better than they actually are. People here mention how koreans have better practice environments and game traditions that comes down from BW but those are just lame excuses. Personal effort >>>>>>>>>>>> environment Environment has a much much much bigger role in Sc2 training than you give it credit for. In a team house your practice is always going to be more constructive and productive than outside of a team house, regardless of motivation.
Which Korean teamhouse is in U of T? Is there where Polt is training? Foreigners just need to stop making fucking excuses.
Would it be better in a Korean training house? Sure. Is it impossible to make it if you are in NA? Nope.
Should the NBA have Asian qualifiers and African qualifiers because US is the best area to get top basketball competition?
If you can't beat Koreans with lag, just go practice and stop whining!
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EPT
