EPTKoreans Are Here to Stay - WCS America 2014 - Page 8
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BlackPride
United States186 Posts
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On November 22 2013 23:45 Scarecrow wrote: Comparing duckdeok to polt is hilarious. Polt won consecutive WCS America's ahead of guys like Taeja, JD and Hero. The 10 games dropped is far more a reflection on duckdeok's mediocrity than on EU skill. Yet he managed to beat INnoVation and take Maru to 5 maps. Hurrr durr, mediocrity. Do not need to like his style, but he's good with his timings and allins. Also his pvz and pvp are solid | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
And I say a large number because only two or three isn't enough. You need a multitude of practice partners growing at the same or a similar rate to you with varying playstyles ect in order to really improve. | ||
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B-rye88
Canada168 Posts
Using Polt as an example for any of this is kind of silly. The dude doesn't practice as much as other Koreans, and doesn't win games the same way (he quite often plays from behind due to mechanical and early game issues and then just stomps in late game engagements). Honestly, this is probably fine. Consider S1 & S2 a transition period to a more regionally proportionate system with some flexibility to allow for import/export of talent. As has been stated multiple times, what're they supposed to do, kick out all the Koreans that earned placements to compete for $-paying spots and exposure? You could argue that even opens them up to litigation. | ||
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Reasonable
Ukraine1432 Posts
There went the WCS America skill level. | ||
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Noobity
United States871 Posts
But then it would just be "well they aren't practicing right!" I guess it would just be an endless cycle of nonsense. I see why foreigners keep retiring. Fuckit take away all WCS shit, I'd be happy just having foreigner only tournaments to watch from now on. So goddamned draining having this same argument over and over again and so much of it is just over terminology. Such crazy, heated argumentation, such rampant mud slinging. It really sucks. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:50 Noobity wrote: I'm so tired of people saying that there are no pros in NA/EU that are putting forth the necessary effort. I'd love a couple foreigner pros to let us know their schedules so we don't have to hear this anymore. But then it would just be "well they aren't practicing right!" I guess it would just be an endless cycle of nonsense. I see why foreigners keep retiring. Fuckit take away all WCS shit, I'd be happy just having foreigner only tournaments to watch from now on. So goddamned draining having this same argument over and over again and so much of it is just over terminology. Such crazy, heated argumentation, such rampant mud slinging. It really sucks. How many foreign teams have a dedicated coach? That alone can make a huge difference like we seen with EGTL yet for some reason we never seen even 1. Foreigners training wrong, and only a couple people can do without that training like we seen with Polt/Taeja/Naniwa/Scarlet. And even then you don't know how much they would benefit from it. | ||
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Cereb
Denmark3388 Posts
Looking at the the recent tournament results, it's just not even close anymore... At all. The winrates of bloody any competing Korea vs the top foreigner is getting ridiculous. It feels like a low master or even diamond player has a greater chance at beating a high GM player than a non-Korean has at beating a Korean these days. Just looking at the recent HSC! There were around two koreans who got eliminated by foreigners in a tournament! It was absolutely ridiculous and not even close. Even the WCS final was just Naniwa going out in the first round as the only non-Korean! And this is despite the fact that we still have WCS EU were there are actually very few Koreans in which they could have gotten some points! What is even the point of trying to help the non-Koreans anymore. I simply can't see this status being changed regardless of any system. At this point, if you don't like watching when there is nothing but Koreans and maybe some non-Koreans commentating, then I don't think SC2 is gonna be much fun to follow for you. And it still blows my mind. You'd think just by the sheer number of the non-Korean player base vs the Korean that you'd have some talented folks rising up to compete with the very best just by sheer chance alone! But somehow that doesn't even happen! This truly shows the effect of hard and dedicated practice and the difference between the cultures! You can safely assume that there is fundamentally more talented foreign players as there are way more players, but that just doesn't matter in this game in the face of hardcore practice. I'm sure there are a few non-Koreans who practice very hardcore as well, but I guess I'm gonna have to assume that when comparing the number of players practicing hardcore, then the non koreans suddenly become the clear minority, and this gives rise to more of the talented Korean player base. In some way it's not actually that surprising when I look around me in my classes and see the incredibly average work attitude, myself included. It's everywhere ! Even at high level university studies! Most of the time I just don't understand how I ended up where I did with such a lazy performance from myself, but I guess that's more than enough in this culture. Being successful in your studies at this point basically only requires the minimum effort of actually reading what you are supposed to, and suddenly you are way ahead of your class :| Watching documentaries on their work ethics is so inspiring. I mean, I guess it could be fun watching a tournament without the Koreans in the same way that supporting your local non-professional sport team can make for a decent sunday afternoon of entertainment  | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
and if there come always koreans trough ladder, it just means a STRONG ladder ... its perfect for me | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On November 21 2013 16:42 b0rt_ wrote: I don't get what the problem is. If Koreans are better then let them play unrestricted, this is how competition markets works. the problem is the viewership interest and future if only koreans qualifier less foreigns will be pro or even try to be so less players overall the koreans are not that attractive to alot of foreign fans, so you have less viewers and less people actually caring for wcs and sc2 in generall its like making a high european soccer league, and having 18 teams with 11 rnd brasilian players, then mention it stays this way so new talents not even try to be a soccer player and soon only brasilians play soccer, then having a world cup wondering why there is only shit in the rest of the world left ... the viewership would drop dramaticy the problem is NEVER the skill, the problem is the attractivity, and skill is just a part of it | ||
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Metalcore1993
New Zealand92 Posts
Looking at the the recent tournament results, it's just not even close anymore... At all. The winrates of bloody any competing Korea vs the top foreigner is getting ridiculous. It feels like a low master or even diamond player has a greater chance at beating a high GM player than a non-Korean has at beating a Korean these days. Just looking at the recent HSC! There were around two koreans who got eliminated by foreigners in a tournament! It was absolutely ridiculous and not even close. Even the WCS final was just Naniwa going out in the first round as the only non-Korean! And this is despite the fact that we still have WCS EU were there are actually very few Koreans in which they could have gotten some points! What is even the point of trying to help the non-Koreans anymore. I simply can't see this status being changed regardless of any system. At this point, if you don't like watching when there is nothing but Koreans and maybe some non-Koreans commentating, then I don't think SC2 is gonna be much fun to follow for you. Yea, the fact naniwa had to vs Soulkey, the #1 seed who took nearly all his points from top finishes in the argueably hardest tournament of wcs KR and one of the best zergs in the world, also being one of the most consistant players as well had nothing to do with it. Ofc he lost just because soulkey was a korean and it had nothing to do with the fact soulkey had put far more effort into sc2 through out the whole year. | ||
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TyrantPotato
Australia1541 Posts
I've been anti-region lock forever and nothing will change that. I only care for the best games, step up or get out is my advice to non-koreans. Id LOVE to see an aussie become a top contender in a final, but only if they earn it by their own merit and not spoon fed a seeding by tournaments. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On November 22 2013 05:24 fronkschnonk wrote: "Sometimes, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette" Sorry, but that's such a nonsense. These aren't foods, these are humans. Humans, who dedicated their lives to esports and risked a lot playing in US. To kick them out of WCS AM would kick quite some of them instant out of esports, standing there with empty hands, not prepared for alternatives in their lives. Blizzard did the only right thing - they're taking responsibility for what they had caused. It could have been better from the beginning, but one can't act like the things, that happened, didn't happen. I have to say, I'm seriously appalled to read such a thing here on TL from you, Waxangel  I have to agree. Not to mention you have to take into account that last year, they reduced GSL from 5 a year to 3, OSL from 2 to 1 (one of the OSL in 2012 was BW but it was still an SC tournament). (Not to mention the reduced prize pool overall.) One of the reasons Koreans played outside of the GSL is because of those two things (less tournaments and less prize pool). I like their decisions with 2014 because it sort of makes up for 2013 (reduced prize pool and tournament count). | ||
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naastyOne
491 Posts
I`m still looking at Dota 2, where there is very strong China, very strong EU, and US have 2 top-tier teams, and neither scene managed to destroy one-other and become the Korea of Dota 2 as a case of properly developed local scenes and proper inernational competition. Probably something to learn for Blizzard when they will make SC3. So let foreign SC2 die already. The glorious future requiers sacrifices, and SC2 (droping foreighn players->falling foreighn vievship due to only koreans->less prise money for koreans overall->less incentive for koreans to play->death of the scene->death of SC2) should become one, for better or worse. | ||
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RifleCow
Canada637 Posts
On November 24 2013 12:01 naastyOne wrote: Since the arrival of Dota 2, i stopped caring a lot for SC2. Let it just be all-Koreans, and "foreighers" can have other esports. I`m still looking at Dota 2, where there is very strong China, very strong EU, and US have 2 top-tier teams, and neither scene managed to destroy one-other and become the Korea of Dota 2 as a case of properly developed local scenes and proper inernational competition. Probably something to learn for Blizzard when they will make SC3. So let foreign SC2 die already. The glorious future requiers sacrifices, and SC2 (droping foreighn players->falling foreighn vievship due to only koreans->less prise money for koreans overall->less incentive for koreans to play->death of the scene->death of SC2) should become one, for better or worse. Lets make a game that koreans don't like so they don't get too good and destroy our scenes! I'd like to see what happens to League in a year or 2 when koreans are just destroying everyone. It has already started, looking at LCS finals. | ||
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Firestorm
Canada341 Posts
-If you had live Code S in a prime time slot for the NA market and you had a equivalent Code S for NA players only happening at the same time, no one would watch the NA players. -North Americans have had 2.5 years to improve and catch up to the Koreans (MMA first won MLG Columbus 2011). 2 and a half years! At some point, the excuses have to stop and there has to be accountability. You would think someone would say "we are going to catch up now", but for whatever reason it hasn't happened. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
This isn't the Olympics where every player represents his nation. Players in premier tournaments represent themselves. Maybe their teams. Not their countries. I'm all for growing the scene, but not at the cost of game quality. | ||
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Firestorm
Canada341 Posts
On November 23 2013 03:05 Assirra wrote: How many foreign teams have a dedicated coach? That alone can make a huge difference like we seen with EGTL yet for some reason we never seen even 1. Foreigners training wrong, and only a couple people can do without that training like we seen with Polt/Taeja/Naniwa/Scarlet. And even then you don't know how much they would benefit from it. Coach Park was for the Koreans on EGTL too, not the foreigner players. | ||
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ArTiFaKs
United States1229 Posts
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