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On November 11 2013 06:05 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 04:30 Faruko wrote:
Finally a player plays Protoss with its "full" potential and the community bashes him... SC2 its losing ground not because sOs beat JD with clever gameplay mechanics and tactics, and outsmarting him to the point of making JD looking like a fool falling each and every time in sOs plan, but because the community wants every match to be "do not chesee --> turtle for 30 minutes with harras to get a little edge --> deathball --> fight"
This is getting silly, nobody said ANYTHING when JD baneling busted Maru 2 (or was 3?) games in a row, because it was "The Dong", but suddenly comes a player, that TL defines as a "faceless korean" which actually shows how much does some people know about SC2 (watch Proleague, please...), and put JD to shame with his mind games and unorthodox play style and now everything is "SC2 is dead, RIP SC2, JD SOOO MUCH BETTER"
If i were playing for a 100k i would do everything in my power to win, and so will everyone People dislike the cannon rush cheese because it is so easy to do and has such a huge impact, and it isnt really scoutable. You just have to blindly counter it, which costs you minerals and him nothing. If there weren't cheese spots behind minerals nobody would care. People also feel a bit cheated since in 3 (4?) of the games sOs did some kind of hidden cheese. Yes, it is him playing to win... but whenever something is lopsided against our favorite we dislike it. People dont like one round boxing matches, it is no different here. JD shouldve played a lot better, I dont know what he was thinking. Ultralisks on akilon is dumb. Base trading with ultralisks on akilon is horrendous. Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2? It just really felt like he couldve done a lot better.
Against top caliber players? Any type of cannon rush isn't easy to pull off at all. Why because they're pretty good at stopping it/scouting it. sOs got snuffed many times yet he still made shit work.
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On November 11 2013 06:24 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 06:05 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 11 2013 04:30 Faruko wrote:
Finally a player plays Protoss with its "full" potential and the community bashes him... SC2 its losing ground not because sOs beat JD with clever gameplay mechanics and tactics, and outsmarting him to the point of making JD looking like a fool falling each and every time in sOs plan, but because the community wants every match to be "do not chesee --> turtle for 30 minutes with harras to get a little edge --> deathball --> fight"
This is getting silly, nobody said ANYTHING when JD baneling busted Maru 2 (or was 3?) games in a row, because it was "The Dong", but suddenly comes a player, that TL defines as a "faceless korean" which actually shows how much does some people know about SC2 (watch Proleague, please...), and put JD to shame with his mind games and unorthodox play style and now everything is "SC2 is dead, RIP SC2, JD SOOO MUCH BETTER"
If i were playing for a 100k i would do everything in my power to win, and so will everyone People dislike the cannon rush cheese because it is so easy to do and has such a huge impact, and it isnt really scoutable. You just have to blindly counter it, which costs you minerals and him nothing. If there weren't cheese spots behind minerals nobody would care. People also feel a bit cheated since in 3 (4?) of the games sOs did some kind of hidden cheese. Yes, it is him playing to win... but whenever something is lopsided against our favorite we dislike it. People dont like one round boxing matches, it is no different here. JD shouldve played a lot better, I dont know what he was thinking. Ultralisks on akilon is dumb. Base trading with ultralisks on akilon is horrendous. Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2? It just really felt like he couldve done a lot better. Against top caliber players? Any type of cannon rush isn't easy to pull off at all. Why because they're pretty good at stopping it/scouting it. sOs got snuffed many times yet he still made shit work.
"Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2?"
A cannon rush is easy because either:
1) You just don't do it because his drone is on you
2) You do it because his drone isn't on you
If you do it and he pulls 10 drones to stop it, you cancel the 2nd pylon + cannon and are still ahead.
Either scenario you gain an advantage, and both are easy. This is one reason why early forge is used against Z in the first place. Saying a cannon rush is hard is ridiculous, it just depends on how your opponent acts towards your scouting probe.
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It's interesting how Jaedong lost to a different person in each of his 5 silvers this year. Most Kongs have lost to one person at least a couple of times in the finals.
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Including all streams, probably peaked around 300k concurrent viewers. Definitely lived up to the hype of #1 tournament of 2013 imo.
On November 11 2013 06:15 RusHXceL wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9UrcxoI.gif)
Haha, legendary.
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On November 11 2013 06:30 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 06:24 StarStruck wrote:On November 11 2013 06:05 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 11 2013 04:30 Faruko wrote:
Finally a player plays Protoss with its "full" potential and the community bashes him... SC2 its losing ground not because sOs beat JD with clever gameplay mechanics and tactics, and outsmarting him to the point of making JD looking like a fool falling each and every time in sOs plan, but because the community wants every match to be "do not chesee --> turtle for 30 minutes with harras to get a little edge --> deathball --> fight"
This is getting silly, nobody said ANYTHING when JD baneling busted Maru 2 (or was 3?) games in a row, because it was "The Dong", but suddenly comes a player, that TL defines as a "faceless korean" which actually shows how much does some people know about SC2 (watch Proleague, please...), and put JD to shame with his mind games and unorthodox play style and now everything is "SC2 is dead, RIP SC2, JD SOOO MUCH BETTER"
If i were playing for a 100k i would do everything in my power to win, and so will everyone People dislike the cannon rush cheese because it is so easy to do and has such a huge impact, and it isnt really scoutable. You just have to blindly counter it, which costs you minerals and him nothing. If there weren't cheese spots behind minerals nobody would care. People also feel a bit cheated since in 3 (4?) of the games sOs did some kind of hidden cheese. Yes, it is him playing to win... but whenever something is lopsided against our favorite we dislike it. People dont like one round boxing matches, it is no different here. JD shouldve played a lot better, I dont know what he was thinking. Ultralisks on akilon is dumb. Base trading with ultralisks on akilon is horrendous. Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2? It just really felt like he couldve done a lot better. Against top caliber players? Any type of cannon rush isn't easy to pull off at all. Why because they're pretty good at stopping it/scouting it. sOs got snuffed many times yet he still made shit work. "Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2?" A cannon rush is easy because either: 1) You just don't do it because his drone is on you 2) You do it because his drone isn't on you If you do it and he pulls 10 drones to stop it, you cancel the 2nd pylon + cannon and are still ahead. Either scenario you gain an advantage, and both are easy. This is one reason why early forge is used against Z in the first place. Saying a cannon rush is hard is ridiculous, it just depends on how your opponent acts towards your scouting probe.
What ? Cannon rush its only easy if you dont scout it, in fact, the first Cannon rush wasnt that effective, the second would had not been as effective if JD didnt made that stupid mistake of locking out 2 of their drones.
Cannon rush its no easy feat agains pro players, most of them can scout them way ahead, JD didnt, and he paid for it with 2 loses
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The first cannon rush simply failed. Far from winning the game for sOs, it almost lost it for him. It was only through terrific defense, smart build choices, and some poor decisions by Jaedong that sOs was able to win.
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Even though the finals were incredibly disappointing for me personally, the event itself was INCREDIBLE. I hope every WCS tournament is AT LEAST as good as this and Toronto next year
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On November 11 2013 06:30 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 06:24 StarStruck wrote:On November 11 2013 06:05 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 11 2013 04:30 Faruko wrote:
Finally a player plays Protoss with its "full" potential and the community bashes him... SC2 its losing ground not because sOs beat JD with clever gameplay mechanics and tactics, and outsmarting him to the point of making JD looking like a fool falling each and every time in sOs plan, but because the community wants every match to be "do not chesee --> turtle for 30 minutes with harras to get a little edge --> deathball --> fight"
This is getting silly, nobody said ANYTHING when JD baneling busted Maru 2 (or was 3?) games in a row, because it was "The Dong", but suddenly comes a player, that TL defines as a "faceless korean" which actually shows how much does some people know about SC2 (watch Proleague, please...), and put JD to shame with his mind games and unorthodox play style and now everything is "SC2 is dead, RIP SC2, JD SOOO MUCH BETTER"
If i were playing for a 100k i would do everything in my power to win, and so will everyone People dislike the cannon rush cheese because it is so easy to do and has such a huge impact, and it isnt really scoutable. You just have to blindly counter it, which costs you minerals and him nothing. If there weren't cheese spots behind minerals nobody would care. People also feel a bit cheated since in 3 (4?) of the games sOs did some kind of hidden cheese. Yes, it is him playing to win... but whenever something is lopsided against our favorite we dislike it. People dont like one round boxing matches, it is no different here. JD shouldve played a lot better, I dont know what he was thinking. Ultralisks on akilon is dumb. Base trading with ultralisks on akilon is horrendous. Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2? It just really felt like he couldve done a lot better. Against top caliber players? Any type of cannon rush isn't easy to pull off at all. Why because they're pretty good at stopping it/scouting it. sOs got snuffed many times yet he still made shit work. "Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2?" A cannon rush is easy because either: 1) You just don't do it because his drone is on you 2) You do it because his drone isn't on you If you do it and he pulls 10 drones to stop it, you cancel the 2nd pylon + cannon and are still ahead. Either scenario you gain an advantage, and both are easy. This is one reason why early forge is used against Z in the first place. Saying a cannon rush is hard is ridiculous, it just depends on how your opponent acts towards your scouting probe.
It's hard to pull off against players of this caliber. Just watch pro league and see how many times they get snuffed. You always have to be on top of the army man. Same rule applies for the probe.
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On November 11 2013 04:16 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 04:07 Crackpot wrote:
RIP SC2?
Is it just me or anyone else thinks that StarCraft 2 looses credibility? I mean, this year we had like 4 different "best players",.. how could that be ? To be honest, I dont think SOS is THE best player right now, I think everyone else of the participants (with few exceptions) could have won the global finals. From now on SOS will fall just like every other "major tournament"-winner,.. because like all the other champions (besides Innovation in Season 1) noone truely was THE BEST.
what does that mean? -->If more and more different players win major tournaments,winning a tournament seems to become more and more worthless, because everyone can win it, you don't have to be the very best.
Is it Blizzards "we patch everything" - mentality ?
Or just "normal" because HotS isn't even a year old?
I have no idea, but its not good for the sport.
What's the best team in soccer? Funnily enough, you will find that such questions rarely have simple answers. It might have been in Brood War, but there are many sports where there is no undisputed #1 that get along just fine. And this whole "you don't have to be the best to win" is annoying, stupid and offensive all at once. Of course you have to be the best. You have to play better and smarter than everyone else to win. Or you lose. That's how the game works. If you didn't know sOs well enough before the tournament, I'm sorry, but your argument is and has always been bullshit.
Funnily the best soccer Team is Barcelona and munich.
Seems like i hit some sos fanboy. to make things clear.. SOS won cause he played better than jd, i dont deny that.
And yes i saw SOS playing before the tournament. In my eyes he never was a pro deserving a championship, but there are many like him, maybe his mindgames(and they where pretty good) worked Vs jd now. but in pure mechanics, micro and strategies i see much better players than him.Dont get me wrong, I dont blame SOS for winning something, I blame the game or maybeblizzard or the tournemants or maybe every other progamer for letting stuff like that happen. you see , i dont know what to blame because i have no idea what is cousing this inconsistency.
Peace
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Croatia679 Posts
really nice played. gratz to sos he deserves it.
what i enjoyed the most how the crowed slowly moved away from this blind "JD fanboyism" and startet to cheer for sos because of his play.
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United States2065 Posts
On November 10 2013 16:24 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 15:37 MarlieChurphy wrote:
3 things that bothered me about JD's play:
1, He basically threw away a won game by playing lazy/bad. He went ultras, no reason to go ultras. No reason to send those 4 ultra to finish the bruised nexus either, 2 of them didn't even DO ANYTHING, they just died. He could have sent 25 lings, or 8 mutas, or anything other that the ultras there. And then he decided to base trade and hope to remax on muta, even though there was nothing in the base to kill the ultra army so he could remax muta. What a poor gameplan.
2, How could you not notice he is going forge/nexus openings and do some early pool builds. 7pool works great even if you don't outright win.
3, Why doesn't he EVER scout all the bases. As a casual gamer even I send my fresh lords or random lings to all the empty bases after 15 minutes. What the fuck man.
To sum it all up, JD lacks in scouting and decision making. Work on it or you will forever fill the lost duty of Yellow and Stork as the silver miner.
Really, SOS is good but his play isn't all that overwhelming or technical. He just BO countered and took advantage of JDs weaknesses. Once a player has those taken away, he beats SOS. even progamers make mistake buddy .. even the greatest ones ..
Of course they do, but if you want to be top dog and win golds, you don't. Or at least don't make as many as the opponents. What is your point.
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On November 11 2013 07:31 Crackpot wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 04:16 Zealously wrote:On November 11 2013 04:07 Crackpot wrote:
RIP SC2?
Is it just me or anyone else thinks that StarCraft 2 looses credibility? I mean, this year we had like 4 different "best players",.. how could that be ? To be honest, I dont think SOS is THE best player right now, I think everyone else of the participants (with few exceptions) could have won the global finals. From now on SOS will fall just like every other "major tournament"-winner,.. because like all the other champions (besides Innovation in Season 1) noone truely was THE BEST.
what does that mean? -->If more and more different players win major tournaments,winning a tournament seems to become more and more worthless, because everyone can win it, you don't have to be the very best.
Is it Blizzards "we patch everything" - mentality ?
Or just "normal" because HotS isn't even a year old?
I have no idea, but its not good for the sport.
What's the best team in soccer? Funnily enough, you will find that such questions rarely have simple answers. It might have been in Brood War, but there are many sports where there is no undisputed #1 that get along just fine. And this whole "you don't have to be the best to win" is annoying, stupid and offensive all at once. Of course you have to be the best. You have to play better and smarter than everyone else to win. Or you lose. That's how the game works. If you didn't know sOs well enough before the tournament, I'm sorry, but your argument is and has always been bullshit. Funnily the best soccer Team is Barcelona and munich. Seems like i hit some sos fanboy. to make things clear.. SOS won cause he played better than jd, i dont deny that. And yes i saw SOS playing before the tournament. In my eyes he never was a pro deserving a championship, but there are many like him, maybe his mindgames(and they where pretty good) worked Vs jd now. but in pure mechanics, micro and strategies i see much better players than him.Dont get me wrong, I dont blame SOS for winning something, I blame the game or maybeblizzard or the tournemants or maybe every other progamer for letting stuff like that happen. you see , i dont know what to blame because i have no idea what is cousing this inconsistency. Peace
Yes because his matches against Polt and Bomber didnt show that sOs is clearly A LOT better than what he was months ago, his mechanics are way ahead of what they used to be, his tactics are executed so much better than before, hell even the game he lost agains JD he succeed in that regard, it was only JD with the great call/gamble of doing 15 or so Mutas
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On November 11 2013 04:38 TrickyGilligan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 04:07 Crackpot wrote:
RIP SC2?
Is it just me or anyone else thinks that StarCraft 2 looses credibility? I mean, this year we had like 4 different "best players",.. how could that be ? To be honest, I dont think SOS is THE best player right now, I think everyone else of the participants (with few exceptions) could have won the global finals. From now on SOS will fall just like every other "major tournament"-winner,.. because like all the other champions (besides Innovation in Season 1) noone truely was THE BEST.
what does that mean? -->If more and more different players win major tournaments,winning a tournament seems to become more and more worthless, because everyone can win it, you don't have to be the very best.
Is it Blizzards "we patch everything" - mentality ?
Or just "normal" because HotS isn't even a year old?
I have no idea, but its not good for the sport.
Did you watch the games? Because they were amazing. I agree that it would be nice to get some more consistent winners for better storylines, but the fact is that sOs played the best Starcraft this weekend. Not because of game design or balance or Blizzard or anything else you want to blame it on.
If i would know what to blame it on, i would Say it. but i never blamed balance for SOS winning over jd. Iam not sure if its because SOS played the best starcraft this weekend, the others just played shit, look at bomber, he destroyed himself all alone. But when others play shit, its your time to shine. thats the rule in starcraft right now.
If innovation would still play on his level like in season 1, things would be amazing. Or if bomber would play like in season 2 finals, i would love watching every tournament. same with SOS , if he could play that good like vs jd everytime i would love watching him. but thats not the way it goes. next gsl code s you can roll the dice again .
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On November 10 2013 11:46 Qwyn wrote:
The most disappointing and - lame - ending to a tourney I've seen all year. sOs added to my player hit list.
such arrogant guys here all jd fanboys hitting on sos by no reason ...
was best finals and sos was suuuper smart ... best protoss and overall best player of 2013, undenieable since well he won it 
you guys calling others play bad and not him play good ? how arrogant can you guys be ...
ofc there was alot winners this year and then its said "oh sc2 dying" sooo bs ... i mean i think i barley see ANY soccer championchip where the BEST team wins ... its not the normal case, the team with the best ideas spirit and form wins !
and so did sos
LOVE YA ! KEEP PROTOSS WINNING !
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On November 11 2013 07:31 Crackpot wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 04:16 Zealously wrote:On November 11 2013 04:07 Crackpot wrote:
RIP SC2?
Is it just me or anyone else thinks that StarCraft 2 looses credibility? I mean, this year we had like 4 different "best players",.. how could that be ? To be honest, I dont think SOS is THE best player right now, I think everyone else of the participants (with few exceptions) could have won the global finals. From now on SOS will fall just like every other "major tournament"-winner,.. because like all the other champions (besides Innovation in Season 1) noone truely was THE BEST.
what does that mean? -->If more and more different players win major tournaments,winning a tournament seems to become more and more worthless, because everyone can win it, you don't have to be the very best.
Is it Blizzards "we patch everything" - mentality ?
Or just "normal" because HotS isn't even a year old?
I have no idea, but its not good for the sport.
What's the best team in soccer? Funnily enough, you will find that such questions rarely have simple answers. It might have been in Brood War, but there are many sports where there is no undisputed #1 that get along just fine. And this whole "you don't have to be the best to win" is annoying, stupid and offensive all at once. Of course you have to be the best. You have to play better and smarter than everyone else to win. Or you lose. That's how the game works. If you didn't know sOs well enough before the tournament, I'm sorry, but your argument is and has always been bullshit. Funnily the best soccer Team is Barcelona and munich. Seems like i hit some sos fanboy. to make things clear.. SOS won cause he played better than jd, i dont deny that. And yes i saw SOS playing before the tournament. In my eyes he never was a pro deserving a championship, but there are many like him, maybe his mindgames(and they where pretty good) worked Vs jd now. but in pure mechanics, micro and strategies i see much better players than him.Dont get me wrong, I dont blame SOS for winning something, I blame the game or maybeblizzard or the tournemants or maybe every other progamer for letting stuff like that happen. you see , i dont know what to blame because i have no idea what is cousing this inconsistency. Peace
Blaming Blizzard or every other pro gamer letting stuff like that happen? Rofl. Somehow I doubt you ever watched PL, but I don't blame you. Many people apparently didn't. You have a lot of options when it comes to what you can watch and when to watch. The PL timeslot isn't really friendly for many people. Anywho, there are quite a few of Protosses that can give you a run for your money (and that's one of the reasons they do so well because these guys have their own variations which makes it hard to play against unless you know what's coming) and guess what? sHy showed us plenty of new options and this goes back to PL. It's funny because I remember so many people would rag on whatever Protoss was doing well atm. People would shit on players like MC (including your 'idols'), PartinG and so on. The fact sOs can execute such strategies and sometimes they don't work out so well in the beginning and still hold his own. I think that says something. When the guy should probably be behind. He isn't behind. That my friend is scary. Not only that he's moving onto another front and using unit compositions that are so risky. If you don't nail it. You should be fucked. Also those storms man. MC storm meet sOs storm.
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thats the problem with foreign community, if the fan favorit isnt winning its shittalk time for his enemys ... sos played such a great tournament and i could not see a single player in 2013 who could have beaten him this weekend ... and stop saying the others played bad you just overhype your memories ...
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On November 11 2013 06:30 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 06:24 StarStruck wrote:On November 11 2013 06:05 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 11 2013 04:30 Faruko wrote:
Finally a player plays Protoss with its "full" potential and the community bashes him... SC2 its losing ground not because sOs beat JD with clever gameplay mechanics and tactics, and outsmarting him to the point of making JD looking like a fool falling each and every time in sOs plan, but because the community wants every match to be "do not chesee --> turtle for 30 minutes with harras to get a little edge --> deathball --> fight"
This is getting silly, nobody said ANYTHING when JD baneling busted Maru 2 (or was 3?) games in a row, because it was "The Dong", but suddenly comes a player, that TL defines as a "faceless korean" which actually shows how much does some people know about SC2 (watch Proleague, please...), and put JD to shame with his mind games and unorthodox play style and now everything is "SC2 is dead, RIP SC2, JD SOOO MUCH BETTER"
If i were playing for a 100k i would do everything in my power to win, and so will everyone People dislike the cannon rush cheese because it is so easy to do and has such a huge impact, and it isnt really scoutable. You just have to blindly counter it, which costs you minerals and him nothing. If there weren't cheese spots behind minerals nobody would care. People also feel a bit cheated since in 3 (4?) of the games sOs did some kind of hidden cheese. Yes, it is him playing to win... but whenever something is lopsided against our favorite we dislike it. People dont like one round boxing matches, it is no different here. JD shouldve played a lot better, I dont know what he was thinking. Ultralisks on akilon is dumb. Base trading with ultralisks on akilon is horrendous. Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2? It just really felt like he couldve done a lot better. Against top caliber players? Any type of cannon rush isn't easy to pull off at all. Why because they're pretty good at stopping it/scouting it. sOs got snuffed many times yet he still made shit work. "Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2?" A cannon rush is easy because either: 1) You just don't do it because his drone is on you 2) You do it because his drone isn't on you If you do it and he pulls 10 drones to stop it, you cancel the 2nd pylon + cannon and are still ahead. Either scenario you gain an advantage, and both are easy. This is one reason why early forge is used against Z in the first place. Saying a cannon rush is hard is ridiculous, it just depends on how your opponent acts towards your scouting probe.
you even watch pro plays ? 90% of the canon rush i see gets destroyed and then protoss is so far behind that he loses, even sos canon rush nr1 was a bad canonrush who went overall better for jd ...
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On November 11 2013 07:24 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 06:30 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 11 2013 06:24 StarStruck wrote:On November 11 2013 06:05 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 11 2013 04:30 Faruko wrote:
Finally a player plays Protoss with its "full" potential and the community bashes him... SC2 its losing ground not because sOs beat JD with clever gameplay mechanics and tactics, and outsmarting him to the point of making JD looking like a fool falling each and every time in sOs plan, but because the community wants every match to be "do not chesee --> turtle for 30 minutes with harras to get a little edge --> deathball --> fight"
This is getting silly, nobody said ANYTHING when JD baneling busted Maru 2 (or was 3?) games in a row, because it was "The Dong", but suddenly comes a player, that TL defines as a "faceless korean" which actually shows how much does some people know about SC2 (watch Proleague, please...), and put JD to shame with his mind games and unorthodox play style and now everything is "SC2 is dead, RIP SC2, JD SOOO MUCH BETTER"
If i were playing for a 100k i would do everything in my power to win, and so will everyone People dislike the cannon rush cheese because it is so easy to do and has such a huge impact, and it isnt really scoutable. You just have to blindly counter it, which costs you minerals and him nothing. If there weren't cheese spots behind minerals nobody would care. People also feel a bit cheated since in 3 (4?) of the games sOs did some kind of hidden cheese. Yes, it is him playing to win... but whenever something is lopsided against our favorite we dislike it. People dont like one round boxing matches, it is no different here. JD shouldve played a lot better, I dont know what he was thinking. Ultralisks on akilon is dumb. Base trading with ultralisks on akilon is horrendous. Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2? It just really felt like he couldve done a lot better. Against top caliber players? Any type of cannon rush isn't easy to pull off at all. Why because they're pretty good at stopping it/scouting it. sOs got snuffed many times yet he still made shit work. "Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2?" A cannon rush is easy because either: 1) You just don't do it because his drone is on you 2) You do it because his drone isn't on you If you do it and he pulls 10 drones to stop it, you cancel the 2nd pylon + cannon and are still ahead. Either scenario you gain an advantage, and both are easy. This is one reason why early forge is used against Z in the first place. Saying a cannon rush is hard is ridiculous, it just depends on how your opponent acts towards your scouting probe. It's hard to pull off against players of this caliber. Just watch pro league and see how many times they get snuffed. You always have to be on top of the army man. Same rule applies for the probe.
What do you consider to be a snuff? What happened that made it unsuccessful? Did the probe get followed and he tried anyway? How can you fail a cannon rush if the 2 pylon wall is finished?
On November 11 2013 07:58 Drake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 06:30 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 11 2013 06:24 StarStruck wrote:On November 11 2013 06:05 TheRabidDeer wrote:On November 11 2013 04:30 Faruko wrote:
Finally a player plays Protoss with its "full" potential and the community bashes him... SC2 its losing ground not because sOs beat JD with clever gameplay mechanics and tactics, and outsmarting him to the point of making JD looking like a fool falling each and every time in sOs plan, but because the community wants every match to be "do not chesee --> turtle for 30 minutes with harras to get a little edge --> deathball --> fight"
This is getting silly, nobody said ANYTHING when JD baneling busted Maru 2 (or was 3?) games in a row, because it was "The Dong", but suddenly comes a player, that TL defines as a "faceless korean" which actually shows how much does some people know about SC2 (watch Proleague, please...), and put JD to shame with his mind games and unorthodox play style and now everything is "SC2 is dead, RIP SC2, JD SOOO MUCH BETTER"
If i were playing for a 100k i would do everything in my power to win, and so will everyone People dislike the cannon rush cheese because it is so easy to do and has such a huge impact, and it isnt really scoutable. You just have to blindly counter it, which costs you minerals and him nothing. If there weren't cheese spots behind minerals nobody would care. People also feel a bit cheated since in 3 (4?) of the games sOs did some kind of hidden cheese. Yes, it is him playing to win... but whenever something is lopsided against our favorite we dislike it. People dont like one round boxing matches, it is no different here. JD shouldve played a lot better, I dont know what he was thinking. Ultralisks on akilon is dumb. Base trading with ultralisks on akilon is horrendous. Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2? It just really felt like he couldve done a lot better. Against top caliber players? Any type of cannon rush isn't easy to pull off at all. Why because they're pretty good at stopping it/scouting it. sOs got snuffed many times yet he still made shit work. "Why did he not follow the probe with a drone to stop cannon rush on game 2?" A cannon rush is easy because either: 1) You just don't do it because his drone is on you 2) You do it because his drone isn't on you If you do it and he pulls 10 drones to stop it, you cancel the 2nd pylon + cannon and are still ahead. Either scenario you gain an advantage, and both are easy. This is one reason why early forge is used against Z in the first place. Saying a cannon rush is hard is ridiculous, it just depends on how your opponent acts towards your scouting probe. you even watch pro plays ? 90% of the canon rush i see gets destroyed and then protoss is so far behind that he loses, even sos canon rush nr1 was a bad canonrush who went overall better for jd ...
90%? I seem to remember it working more times than that. I didn't see most of game 1 (I was watching from work), but in what way did it fail? He got the cancel on the natural, didnt he?
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On November 11 2013 07:54 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2013 07:31 Crackpot wrote:On November 11 2013 04:16 Zealously wrote:On November 11 2013 04:07 Crackpot wrote:
RIP SC2?
Is it just me or anyone else thinks that StarCraft 2 looses credibility? I mean, this year we had like 4 different "best players",.. how could that be ? To be honest, I dont think SOS is THE best player right now, I think everyone else of the participants (with few exceptions) could have won the global finals. From now on SOS will fall just like every other "major tournament"-winner,.. because like all the other champions (besides Innovation in Season 1) noone truely was THE BEST.
what does that mean? -->If more and more different players win major tournaments,winning a tournament seems to become more and more worthless, because everyone can win it, you don't have to be the very best.
Is it Blizzards "we patch everything" - mentality ?
Or just "normal" because HotS isn't even a year old?
I have no idea, but its not good for the sport.
What's the best team in soccer? Funnily enough, you will find that such questions rarely have simple answers. It might have been in Brood War, but there are many sports where there is no undisputed #1 that get along just fine. And this whole "you don't have to be the best to win" is annoying, stupid and offensive all at once. Of course you have to be the best. You have to play better and smarter than everyone else to win. Or you lose. That's how the game works. If you didn't know sOs well enough before the tournament, I'm sorry, but your argument is and has always been bullshit. Funnily the best soccer Team is Barcelona and munich. Seems like i hit some sos fanboy. to make things clear.. SOS won cause he played better than jd, i dont deny that. And yes i saw SOS playing before the tournament. In my eyes he never was a pro deserving a championship, but there are many like him, maybe his mindgames(and they where pretty good) worked Vs jd now. but in pure mechanics, micro and strategies i see much better players than him.Dont get me wrong, I dont blame SOS for winning something, I blame the game or maybeblizzard or the tournemants or maybe every other progamer for letting stuff like that happen. you see , i dont know what to blame because i have no idea what is cousing this inconsistency. Peace Blaming Blizzard or every other pro gamer letting stuff like that happen? Rofl. Somehow I doubt you ever watched PL, but I don't blame you. Many people apparently didn't. You have a lot of options when it comes to what you can watch and when to watch. The PL timeslot isn't really friendly for many people. Anywho, there are quite a few of Protosses that can give you a run for your money (and that's one of the reasons they do so well because these guys have their own variations which makes it hard to play against unless you know what's coming) and guess what? sHy showed us plenty of new options and this goes back to PL. It's funny because I remember so many people would rag on whatever Protoss was doing well atm. People would shit on players like MC (including your 'idols'), PartinG and so on. The fact sOs can execute such strategies and sometimes they don't work out so well in the beginning and still hold his own. I think that says something. When the guy should probably be behind. He isn't behind. That my friend is scary. Not only that he's moving onto another front and using unit compositions that are so risky. If you don't nail it. You should be fucked. Also those storms man. MC storm meet sOs storm.
I like proleague, especially the allkill format because it reveals true strength and weaknesses of all players.Talking about sOs There he could assasinate other players pretty well, but when it comes to bo5 against innovation for example, he playes all weird without any self -confidence and poor mechanics/executions.
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United States23455 Posts
Maybe sOs wasn't the who I expected to be the champion, and maybe he wasn't one of the the players I was rooting for to win, but he played one hell of a tournament. He beat some of my favorites along the way (HerO TT, Polt TT, Bomber TT) but got to give the guy TONS of credit for his run.
I won't call him the best in the world, but he had an incredible tournament.
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EPT
