EPT
less WM splash, tanks still suck, orcel and DT are better... what next?
6 possible balance changes - David Kim - Page 42
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c0olL
129 Posts
less WM splash, tanks still suck, orcel and DT are better... what next? | ||
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Warheart
Italy25 Posts
on the other hand widow mines needed to be addressed | ||
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Big-t
Austria1350 Posts
Why 2.7? Why not 2.0 or 2.5 2.7 is so... random :/ | ||
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Gihi
384 Posts
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fried_rice
198 Posts
On September 24 2013 17:00 Big-t wrote: Siege tank attack period decreased from 3 to 2.7 Why 2.7? Why not 2.0 or 2.5 2.7 is so... random :/ It's not "random", it's a 10% decrease. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On September 24 2013 16:16 larse wrote: Tested: The tank buff makes 0 difference I just tested in editor. I tested the a scenario with original tank and then tested the same scenario with 2.7 attack speed tank. The results are no difference. ------------------------- First scenario: Tank with 3.0 attack speed fires two shots before getting killed by immortal Tank with 2.7 attack speed fires two shots before getting killed by immortal ----------------------- Second scenario: 21 Tanks and 25 hellbats vs 10 Zealot, 5 Archons, 10 Immortals, and 5 colossus. Same supply of both sides. I repeat about 20 times with some twists of protoss composition. It turned out that 3.0 attack speed has the exact same result as the 2.7 attack speed. If 3.0 loses, 2.7 loses. If 3.0 wins, 2.7 wins. There are no cases where 3.0 loses but 2.7 wins. ---------------------- People think that in mass number, tank will scale well with this buff. But the it is actually not the case. The 10% attack speed buff is so small that it really doesn't make any difference even in large numbers. I have to say you conducted a very bad test (from looks of it you did it deliberately). 1. ground and air upgrades merged, you should've added atleast vikings or banshees. 2. Costs: 5650/2625 mech vs 6000/3500 protoss anti-mech army. 3. Regular protoss army has lots of stalkers/sentries which are directly countered by tanks. non included in test. You could as well tested 30 tanks vs 5 voidrays and say tanks suck. | ||
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pmp10
3239 Posts
On September 24 2013 16:12 SheaR619 wrote: That is true mech sucks in TvZ for many reason since zerg has many unit to counter but with the widowmine nerf, I dont think terran really have a choice but to explore mech. I am only saying mech will be the meta because honestly, there really isnt anything else for terran to do with such a large splash decrease on the mine. But mine splash nerf cripples mech against mass-muta. It was already very effective and now magic-boxing will be devastating if you don't have a core of marines. | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
On September 24 2013 17:00 Big-t wrote: Siege tank attack period decreased from 3 to 2.7 Why 2.7? Why not 2.0 or 2.5 2.7 is so... random :/ you would say the same if it was 2.5 that they announced. you are random. | ||
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Big-t
Austria1350 Posts
On September 24 2013 17:00 fried_rice wrote: It's not "random", it's a 10% decrease. Ok... but I'm pretty sure that 10% won´t make any difference. | ||
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Scoobers
48 Posts
Dark Templar movement speed increased from 2.813 to 3.375 We believe that Dark Templars could be more interesting to watch if it's not just a matter of the opponent being prepared or not. Even when their opponents are prepared, we believe by increasing Dark Templar’s movement speed, there could be more interesting interactions, such as dodging out of detection range more often So right now with protoss its already not a matter if theyre prepared or not because they just turn on pf nexus and show you the middle finger and you want to make it harder for other races that dont have such ridiculous and broken defensive mechanism harder to defend DTs even when you scouted and prepared for them? Oracle cost decrease?? REALLY?! I guess protoss doesnt all in all too often. The widow mine change seems too drastic to the extend that we might not see WM at all. Siege tanks should get a slightly decresed siege time, to like 3 secs probably? After such drastic WM nerf Thors have to get buffed vs mutas, otherwise mech just cant move across the map because thors suck vs mutas its that simple. Nowadays WM are what helps deal with mutas, thors them selves wont cut it and it would honestly be fricken awesome to watch some thors in the mix with bio tank but there has to be a reason to make them and right now 6 marines are better than a thor. Roach buff is cool, go with it. No word on buffing T in TvP? ~60 for Protoss is quite alarming and as we know the longer the game is out the better protss figures all the stuff out so that win rate will go even higher for them. P.S. I just dont get it why theyre constantly trying to make protoss more and more forgiveable... | ||
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ETisME
12266 Posts
On September 24 2013 16:36 NarutO wrote: Maybe you should actually watch games instead of typing dumb shit. TvZ besides INnoVation is not Terran favored really. The game did switch insanely since Zergs figured out that you can delay the biomine parade at expansions very well with spines, also they have learned to effectively micro against it. In addition to that, INnoVation still seems to go, but he doesn't look nearly as good as in the past. I explained the winrates in proleague TvZ when INnoVation and Flash seemed untouchable and the winrates at 60% or above. They had over 50 games combined not losing TvZ while other Terrans very well did lose TvZ. Now we see INnoVation and Flash falling down or Zergs rising. Also, when you talk about buffs, why is it that Terran got no buff in the match up they really struggle in ? TvP? No word about the photon overcharge, yet more reward for Protoss and still little risk. Maybe you should educate yourself about teh game and the scene as well as about the metagame, before telling Terrans to shut up when they are underperforming below the top level and that severely. The Terrans that really hold up are INnoVation, TaeJa, Polt, Bomber and a few others more or less. I dare to say Protoss and Zerg perform a lot better on average and especially on the lower-top levels. he isn't complaining about balance. he is complaining about the poor game shown due to one lucky mine hit and 3/3 bio roll over later. pretty much everyone is complaining about this. Fix =/= balancing, Fix can mean fixing the poor matchup quality as well. | ||
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On September 24 2013 16:36 NarutO wrote: Maybe you should actually watch games instead of typing dumb shit. TvZ besides INnoVation is not Terran favored really. The game did switch insanely since Zergs figured out that you can delay the biomine parade at expansions very well with spines, also they have learned to effectively micro against it. In addition to that, INnoVation still seems to go, but he doesn't look nearly as good as in the past. I explained the winrates in proleague TvZ when INnoVation and Flash seemed untouchable and the winrates at 60% or above. They had over 50 games combined not losing TvZ while other Terrans very well did lose TvZ. Now we see INnoVation and Flash falling down or Zergs rising. Also, when you talk about buffs, why is it that Terran got no buff in the match up they really struggle in ? TvP? No word about the photon overcharge, yet more reward for Protoss and still little risk. Maybe you should educate yourself about teh game and the scene as well as about the metagame, before telling Terrans to shut up when they are underperforming below the top level and that severely. The Terrans that really hold up are INnoVation, TaeJa, Polt, Bomber and a few others more or less. I dare to say Protoss and Zerg perform a lot better on average and especially on the lower-top levels. You really are one rude chap. 1st of all, I didn't say anything about who is favored or not, I just don't like the way WMs end games: one missstep and then the game is basically done even at the later stages of the game. This is something you encounter outside pro games quite a lot too. Then, I didn't base my post upon the idea that Terrans should shut up because they are doing great. don't know where you are taking this from: My point was that the balancing approached changed (ie improved in my opinion) with HotS yet there is no appreciation for it at all. I brought up Terran because in this balance map patch discussion it were mostly Terrans complaining due to the WM nerf. It holds true for any race when it comes to balance patches that are buffing "the other guys shit". Also, this is a balance map patch. It roughly shows indications where they want to go and apparently the tank is getting a focus here. 2.7 compared to 3.0 attack speend might or might not change enough atm, but the matter is: they are considering pushing the tank which is something that was demanded by so many ppl for a long time! | ||
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Big-t
Austria1350 Posts
On September 24 2013 17:01 LSN wrote: you would say the same if it was 2.5 that they announced. you are random. No, you don´t know my thoughtful input! | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
On September 24 2013 16:27 MockHamill wrote: Yes I suspected as much. Tanks will still be worthless vs Protoss and almost worthless vs Zerg. didn't you just last week claim that mass siege-tank + buffer absolutely destroy protoss ground? the tanks buff will surely take you from plat to diamond! | ||
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
On September 24 2013 16:42 Nibbler89 wrote: Im wondering when the day comes when we see pro players keep their hts in warp prism so they cannot be emped / sniped until dropped out to storm the army. Will be sick  MC did this for some time, not quite sure what stopped him though. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11035 Posts
On September 24 2013 16:08 NarutO wrote: Dts are little risk high reward essentially, there is no need for a buff. A good Protoss can get out of a scan now if his movement is good, after the buff it doesnt take any effort at all because it moves AS FAST AS stimmed bio. Also, Protoss won stuff already so "never" is a huge exaggeration , but you can look it up, they didn't win 1 but multiple tournaments this year already. :D:D struggling hahaha , should really get your facts straight. No one is to blame if Rain manages to hit the finale but choke there. How you have fallen Naruto. It's pretty sad. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On September 24 2013 17:09 Sabu113 wrote: How you have fallen Naruto. It's pretty sad. You can explain why, otherwise its pretty meaningless. If 7 second place finishes and 3 tournament wins in premier is winning nothing, I will take it back obviously! | ||
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futech
3 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Zerg.Zilla
Hungary5029 Posts
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