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The potential issue I have with merging ground and air upgrades for terran is that it makes vikings even stronger when a terran goes predominately bio with just a bit of mechanical ground upgrades. In other words, not a mech terran, but just one that has a bit for support (mines/tanks, vikings)
That in itself may not be bad, but the viking is already very good AA without upgrades, so I think a corresponding reduction from 10 dmg per missile to 9 dmg per missile to be appropriate if it was done. Considering the unit can also attack ground by landing (something corruptor and phoenix can't do—although phoenix can at least lift)), I think it's reasonable.
Obviously the fact it buffs BCs and Banshees and Ravens (armor) (and viking armor) is certainly fine though
I'd really want to see something done about the swarm host. It's such a stagnant unit that was totally unnecessary to put into the game in my opinion. It's essentially useless in both ZvT and ZvZ, and makes for longer/boring games in PvZ when/if they are ever used.
The burrowed speed change is right/nice, but I wouldn't think it'd change anyone's tactics of getting roaches. If ever one goes roaches, it's for either the burrow-move OR the roach speed; A zerg doesn't have the time/money to get both and make an effective attack before the opponent's defensive power and detection is too good to successfully attack.
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On September 24 2013 15:25 Moka wrote:
If we get to see siege tanks in TvZ , I might just start to watch SC2 again.
Would be cool but wont happen with this patch, ultras hard counter tank bio too heavily still.
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On September 24 2013 15:34 FinBenton wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 15:25 Moka wrote:
If we get to see siege tanks in TvZ , I might just start to watch SC2 again. Would be cool but wont happen with this patch, ultras hard counter tank bio too heavily still.
yeah. also vipers!
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Why did they not make terran like in single player? No Stim for Marauders?
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Please Blizzard, please please please please add a skin to the roach which gives the Roach a sharkfin sticking above the ground and it causes the Jaws music to play. Make it happen!
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If only blizzard would try to slow the game down that'd be awesome. Do something so that battles takes more time than 3 seconds 
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The DT will allow the it to escape scans. ESCAPE SCANS this is a no no. As a toss palyer. DT should not be able to run away like a super ninja... this will break harassment and make a lot of stuff... more irritating.
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GUYS THESE ARE NOT FINAL CHANGE AND NOT THE END OF THE STARCRAFT
chill until testmap comes up (then we all can start rage :p )
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I think some of these changes are really smart and shows where Blizzard is currently thinking. Things like the roach burrow change could make it more viable to have small groups moving burrowed around the map as hit squads and adding some more general diversity to play.
Most of these changes really do lend themselves to the core goal they outlined in the original post about creating more diversity. The only one that raises big flags at the moment for me is the DT speed increase. Seems to be a very large increase. I understand the thought about increasing the speed at which the game is played and making it reward the mechanical skill, but I think it might be a bit too fast. That being said, I'm someone who watches more than they play because I'm addicted to the Pro scene, so in that regard, maybe the speed will result in some really interesting play.
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I really like the roach burrow movement speed change, hope it gets through.
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It´s funny that buying hots is kind of unnecessary for Terran. We have basically WoL in TvP and TvZ (after this potential mine/tank exchange). The only difference is that zergs have much more tools to hurt Terran like Vipers or massively buffed Ultras.
TvZ is a very entertaining matchup because its so much back and forth but with this changes it could be back to "if T makes one mistake and loses his tank count the game is over". So it could be back to win with one big push or die trying.
Its less of a balance thing in my opinion more of a "racing the rich kids and their new, expensive, carbon bikes on my old, rusty steel bicycle.
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protoss buff's not needed at all lol... widow mine nerf, don't know, welcome the siege tank buff, upgrade buff seems unnecessary, but if it helps mech, why not... but seriously, if oracle speed goes live, I want ravens to be faster as well!
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On September 24 2013 15:58 Creager wrote:
protoss buff's not needed at all lol... widow mine nerf, don't know, welcome the siege tank buff, upgrade buff seems unnecessary, but if it helps mech, why not... but seriously, if oracle speed goes live, I want ravens to be faster as well!
ummm its oracle 'cost' reduction, not speed buff.
you mean, you want your raven to come out faster from starport?
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I love how Protoss players never win any tournaments, but everyone goes apeshit if they get buffed, even if ALL races are getting buffed. DT speed will not be a change at most levels, anyone who just A-moves DTs won't see a benefit, it's to help Protoss players at the highest level who are STRUGGLING to compete.
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Just tested in the editor.
The tank buff really does zero difference in various scenarios. Even in large number, like more than 20, the result is extremely similar to that before buff.
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I cant believe any person in their right mind would thumbs up the dark templar change. Its neither needed nor justified. They now have constant movement speed of stimmed bio, while being perma cloaked. :D Elfi just got buffed, but I think the only change that will make it through are mech upgrades and/or oracle.
Dt buff as mentioned, over the top and not needed.
Widowmine splash is a huge nerf and Terran vs Zerg when its not INnoVation is not Terran favored and everyone who follows tournaments and the scene in Korea should know by now
Tankbuff it makes the tank better obviously but one more shot sitll won't change the fact that it allows for late pushes and too much room for Zerg to breath while still being shitty in an engagement because everything can close the gap in half a second, so one extra shot potentially won't help that much
Oracle for me an unneeded change but for the sake of buffing shit, do it I dont care-_-
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On September 24 2013 16:01 Littlesheep wrote:
I love how Protoss players never win any tournaments, but everyone goes apeshit if they get buffed, even if ALL races are getting buffed. DT speed will not be a change at most levels, anyone who just A-moves DTs won't see a benefit, it's to help Protoss players at the highest level who are STRUGGLING to compete.
Dts are little risk high reward essentially, there is no need for a buff. A good Protoss can get out of a scan now if his movement is good, after the buff it doesnt take any effort at all because it moves AS FAST AS stimmed bio. Also, Protoss won stuff already so "never" is a huge exaggeration , but you can look it up, they didn't win 1 but multiple tournaments this year already.
:D:D struggling hahaha , should really get your facts straight. No one is to blame if Rain manages to hit the finale but choke there.
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Feels like a lot of Zergs are voting. And yes, Protoss needs a buff. Aside from Stardust no Protoss seems to be able to win any big tournaments. I don't care if the pros are whining. It's time that Protoss can win some big tournaments too.
Seems like the buffs will make the game harder. I think that's a good thing.
The DT buff seems good to me because I think you sometimes get punished a little to hard in SC2. I think if a player is fast enough to react, they should be able to get out of detection range again. It'll mean that it's worth it to keep a rather close eye on your DTs (and not just send them in just hoping they don't have detection), which will require more multitasking and micro. It may also be possible to do more effective warp-prism harassment because you actually might be able to get your DTs back out and use them again later.
The only change I don't like is the widowmine nerf... but I guess if you buff tanks, it'd be a little OP if we just leave them as they are now.
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Toss changes gets thumbs down.
Other races gets thumbs up.
lol :D
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On September 24 2013 14:31 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 14:21 SheaR619 wrote:On September 24 2013 13:59 Huragius wrote:
Lol, they might kill foreign Terrans in competitive scene with this patch. I dont believe so, with this patch bio + mine will probably die out. But looking at the mech changes, I think might turn out to be the new meta if mine get nerf and the mech buff goes through since viking will be strong enough to answer the BL tech switch. I highly doubt the DT change will go through though. In TvZ mech has too many possible counters, beggining from mid game scenarios (fast two base muta if prepare for roach timings, or two/three base roach busts if you prepare for mutas and have less tanks). But it' not as bad when it comes to late game scenarios, when you have to deal will Ultra, BL/Corruptor, Roach/Hydra/Viper, Swarmhost/Hydra and even Mass Muta compositions taking into account that zergs can decide to switch from each one to another really fast. Mech has been proved not to work in HotS (unless the opponent has no clue what to do against mech and brain farts every two minutes). Buffed Mutas, Viper and Swarmhosts prevented it from working in TvZ and it had no chances to be viable in TvP to begin with. Even in WoL it was mostly only used on maps like Ohana.
That is true mech sucks in TvZ for many reason since zerg has many unit to counter but with the widowmine nerf, I dont think terran really have a choice but to explore mech. I am only saying mech will be the meta because honestly, there really isnt anything else for terran to do with such a large splash decrease on the mine.
On September 24 2013 16:02 larse wrote:
Just tested in the editor.
The tank buff really does zero difference in various scenarios. Even in large number, like more than 20, the result is extremely similar to that before buff.
yet we are not surprise......eh....going to be a patch nightmare for terran if this goes through.
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EPT
