• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:14
CEST 01:14
KST 08:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3
Community News
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!32Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week5Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!45Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week Starcraft2 player guess game is Coming~!
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WORTEX 2026 - Hungarian SC2 Finals Budapest
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 540 Dodge This The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout
Brood War
General
New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! !!!NEW BUG!!! FIRE ARCHONS [Visual] Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini BW General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS [ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Violent Games and Crime Rate…
TrAiDoS
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8374 users

6 possible balance changes - David Kim - Page 40

Forum Index > SC2 General
1350 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 38 39 40 41 42 68 Next
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-24 06:36:19
September 24 2013 06:27 GMT
#781
The potential issue I have with merging ground and air upgrades for terran is that it makes vikings even stronger when a terran goes predominately bio with just a bit of mechanical ground upgrades. In other words, not a mech terran, but just one that has a bit for support (mines/tanks, vikings)

That in itself may not be bad, but the viking is already very good AA without upgrades, so I think a corresponding reduction from 10 dmg per missile to 9 dmg per missile to be appropriate if it was done. Considering the unit can also attack ground by landing (something corruptor and phoenix can't do—although phoenix can at least lift)), I think it's reasonable.
Obviously the fact it buffs BCs and Banshees and Ravens (armor) (and viking armor) is certainly fine though



I'd really want to see something done about the swarm host. It's such a stagnant unit that was totally unnecessary to put into the game in my opinion. It's essentially useless in both ZvT and ZvZ, and makes for longer/boring games in PvZ when/if they are ever used.

The burrowed speed change is right/nice, but I wouldn't think it'd change anyone's tactics of getting roaches. If ever one goes roaches, it's for either the burrow-move OR the roach speed; A zerg doesn't have the time/money to get both and make an effective attack before the opponent's defensive power and detection is too good to successfully attack.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
FinBenton
Profile Joined March 2011
Finland870 Posts
September 24 2013 06:34 GMT
#782
On September 24 2013 15:25 Moka wrote:
If we get to see siege tanks in TvZ , I might just start to watch SC2 again.

Would be cool but wont happen with this patch, ultras hard counter tank bio too heavily still.
SsDrKosS
Profile Joined March 2013
330 Posts
September 24 2013 06:35 GMT
#783
On September 24 2013 15:34 FinBenton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 15:25 Moka wrote:
If we get to see siege tanks in TvZ , I might just start to watch SC2 again.

Would be cool but wont happen with this patch, ultras hard counter tank bio too heavily still.

yeah. also vipers!
tadL
Profile Joined September 2010
Croatia679 Posts
September 24 2013 06:38 GMT
#784
Why did they not make terran like in single player? No Stim for Marauders?
Seiniyta
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium1815 Posts
September 24 2013 06:46 GMT
#785
Please Blizzard, please please please please add a skin to the roach which gives the Roach a sharkfin sticking above the ground and it causes the Jaws music to play. Make it happen!
Pokemon Master
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-24 06:47:00
September 24 2013 06:46 GMT
#786
If only blizzard would try to slow the game down that'd be awesome. Do something so that battles takes more time than 3 seconds
dnld12
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States324 Posts
September 24 2013 06:46 GMT
#787
The DT will allow the it to escape scans. ESCAPE SCANS this is a no no. As a toss palyer. DT should not be able to run away like a super ninja... this will break harassment and make a lot of stuff... more irritating.
When life gives you Stalkers, Get blink.
SsDrKosS
Profile Joined March 2013
330 Posts
September 24 2013 06:50 GMT
#788
GUYS THESE ARE NOT FINAL CHANGE AND NOT THE END OF THE STARCRAFT
chill until testmap comes up (then we all can start rage :p )
Abacus1
Profile Joined August 2011
Australia45 Posts
September 24 2013 06:55 GMT
#789
I think some of these changes are really smart and shows where Blizzard is currently thinking. Things like the roach burrow change could make it more viable to have small groups moving burrowed around the map as hit squads and adding some more general diversity to play.

Most of these changes really do lend themselves to the core goal they outlined in the original post about creating more diversity. The only one that raises big flags at the moment for me is the DT speed increase. Seems to be a very large increase. I understand the thought about increasing the speed at which the game is played and making it reward the mechanical skill, but I think it might be a bit too fast. That being said, I'm someone who watches more than they play because I'm addicted to the Pro scene, so in that regard, maybe the speed will result in some really interesting play.
'We all got our choices to make...'
ViperPL
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland1775 Posts
September 24 2013 06:56 GMT
#790
I really like the roach burrow movement speed change, hope it gets through.
A dota player and lol player walk into a bar. The dota player says: "lol sucks". Lol player couldn't deny. http://i.imgur.com/FpLeTf1.gif
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
September 24 2013 06:56 GMT
#791
It´s funny that buying hots is kind of unnecessary for Terran. We have basically WoL in TvP and TvZ (after this potential mine/tank exchange). The only difference is that zergs have much more tools to hurt Terran like Vipers or massively buffed Ultras.

TvZ is a very entertaining matchup because its so much back and forth but with this changes it could be back to "if T makes one mistake and loses his tank count the game is over". So it could be back to win with one big push or die trying.

Its less of a balance thing in my opinion more of a "racing the rich kids and their new, expensive, carbon bikes on my old, rusty steel bicycle.
Creager
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1961 Posts
September 24 2013 06:58 GMT
#792
protoss buff's not needed at all lol... widow mine nerf, don't know, welcome the siege tank buff, upgrade buff seems unnecessary, but if it helps mech, why not... but seriously, if oracle speed goes live, I want ravens to be faster as well!
... einmal mit Profis spielen!
SsDrKosS
Profile Joined March 2013
330 Posts
September 24 2013 07:00 GMT
#793
On September 24 2013 15:58 Creager wrote:
protoss buff's not needed at all lol... widow mine nerf, don't know, welcome the siege tank buff, upgrade buff seems unnecessary, but if it helps mech, why not... but seriously, if oracle speed goes live, I want ravens to be faster as well!

ummm its oracle 'cost' reduction, not speed buff.
you mean, you want your raven to come out faster from starport?
Littlesheep
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada217 Posts
September 24 2013 07:01 GMT
#794
I love how Protoss players never win any tournaments, but everyone goes apeshit if they get buffed, even if ALL races are getting buffed. DT speed will not be a change at most levels, anyone who just A-moves DTs won't see a benefit, it's to help Protoss players at the highest level who are STRUGGLING to compete.
pro toez
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
September 24 2013 07:02 GMT
#795
Just tested in the editor.

The tank buff really does zero difference in various scenarios. Even in large number, like more than 20, the result is extremely similar to that before buff.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
September 24 2013 07:04 GMT
#796
I cant believe any person in their right mind would thumbs up the dark templar change. Its neither needed nor justified. They now have constant movement speed of stimmed bio, while being perma cloaked. :D Elfi just got buffed, but I think the only change that will make it through are mech upgrades and/or oracle.

Dt buff as mentioned, over the top and not needed.
Widowmine splash is a huge nerf and Terran vs Zerg when its not INnoVation is not Terran favored and everyone who follows tournaments and the scene in Korea should know by now
Tankbuff it makes the tank better obviously but one more shot sitll won't change the fact that it allows for late pushes and too much room for Zerg to breath while still being shitty in an engagement because everything can close the gap in half a second, so one extra shot potentially won't help that much
Oracle for me an unneeded change but for the sake of buffing shit, do it I dont care-_-
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
September 24 2013 07:08 GMT
#797
On September 24 2013 16:01 Littlesheep wrote:
I love how Protoss players never win any tournaments, but everyone goes apeshit if they get buffed, even if ALL races are getting buffed. DT speed will not be a change at most levels, anyone who just A-moves DTs won't see a benefit, it's to help Protoss players at the highest level who are STRUGGLING to compete.


Dts are little risk high reward essentially, there is no need for a buff. A good Protoss can get out of a scan now if his movement is good, after the buff it doesnt take any effort at all because it moves AS FAST AS stimmed bio. Also, Protoss won stuff already so "never" is a huge exaggeration , but you can look it up, they didn't win 1 but multiple tournaments this year already.

:D:D struggling hahaha , should really get your facts straight. No one is to blame if Rain manages to hit the finale but choke there.
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
iEatWoofers
Profile Joined August 2011
Switzerland108 Posts
September 24 2013 07:09 GMT
#798
Feels like a lot of Zergs are voting. And yes, Protoss needs a buff. Aside from Stardust no Protoss seems to be able to win any big tournaments. I don't care if the pros are whining. It's time that Protoss can win some big tournaments too.

Seems like the buffs will make the game harder. I think that's a good thing.

The DT buff seems good to me because I think you sometimes get punished a little to hard in SC2. I think if a player is fast enough to react, they should be able to get out of detection range again. It'll mean that it's worth it to keep a rather close eye on your DTs (and not just send them in just hoping they don't have detection), which will require more multitasking and micro. It may also be possible to do more effective warp-prism harassment because you actually might be able to get your DTs back out and use them again later.

The only change I don't like is the widowmine nerf... but I guess if you buff tanks, it'd be a little OP if we just leave them as they are now.
Jaylclasse
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Belgium22 Posts
September 24 2013 07:11 GMT
#799
Toss changes gets thumbs down.
Other races gets thumbs up.

lol :D
SheaR619
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2399 Posts
September 24 2013 07:12 GMT
#800
On September 24 2013 14:31 Huragius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 14:21 SheaR619 wrote:
On September 24 2013 13:59 Huragius wrote:
Lol, they might kill foreign Terrans in competitive scene with this patch.


I dont believe so, with this patch bio + mine will probably die out. But looking at the mech changes, I think might turn out to be the new meta if mine get nerf and the mech buff goes through since viking will be strong enough to answer the BL tech switch. I highly doubt the DT change will go through though.


In TvZ mech has too many possible counters, beggining from mid game scenarios (fast two base muta if prepare for roach timings, or two/three base roach busts if you prepare for mutas and have less tanks). But it' not as bad when it comes to late game scenarios, when you have to deal will Ultra, BL/Corruptor, Roach/Hydra/Viper, Swarmhost/Hydra and even Mass Muta compositions taking into account that zergs can decide to switch from each one to another really fast. Mech has been proved not to work in HotS (unless the opponent has no clue what to do against mech and brain farts every two minutes). Buffed Mutas, Viper and Swarmhosts prevented it from working in TvZ and it had no chances to be viable in TvP to begin with. Even in WoL it was mostly only used on maps like Ohana.


That is true mech sucks in TvZ for many reason since zerg has many unit to counter but with the widowmine nerf, I dont think terran really have a choice but to explore mech. I am only saying mech will be the meta because honestly, there really isnt anything else for terran to do with such a large splash decrease on the mine.

On September 24 2013 16:02 larse wrote:
Just tested in the editor.

The tank buff really does zero difference in various scenarios. Even in large number, like more than 20, the result is extremely similar to that before buff.


yet we are not surprise......eh....going to be a patch nightmare for terran if this goes through.
I may not be the best, but i will be some day...
Prev 1 38 39 40 41 42 68 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
21:00
Best Games of SC
BASILISK vs TBD
Serral vs Rogue
PiGStarcraft451
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft451
SpeCial 172
NeuroSwarm 138
EnDerr 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13823
Dewaltoss 100
scan(afreeca) 34
Dota 2
monkeys_forever273
febbydoto8
League of Legends
Doublelift4693
Counter-Strike
minikerr86
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe36
Other Games
gofns17585
Grubby2359
Coldzera 1222
shahzam462
mouzStarbuck273
XaKoH 238
C9.Mang0226
Livibee141
KnowMe91
ViBE62
ZombieGrub48
kaitlyn37
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1044
BasetradeTV103
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 18
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22110
Other Games
• imaqtpie1030
• Scarra789
• Shiphtur132
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
2h 46m
GSL
11h 46m
AI Arena Tournament
17h 46m
Replay Cast
1d
WardiTV Weekly
1d 11h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
GSL
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-27
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 6
Light Tournament 2026
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

BSL 2026 LAN: Kraków
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Calamity Invitational
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.