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On August 27 2013 05:37 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 04:30 Bagi wrote:
I don't mind the overseer buff. But its really nothing at all.
The mech buff they had in mind wasn't ideal, but it was something. Something that could possibly have terran players experiment with different builds besides MMM. But I guess making the game interesting isn't a priority, lets just make every terran player go through the exact same motions every game like they have for months now.
I loved watching terran games in WoL, even when they were getting raped by BL/infestor. I root against terran players in HOTS, every game is just MMM spam. It literally says in the first first post of the thread you just posted in "Another popular area you guys bring up these days and that we agree with is making mech more viable. We will continue testing the mech upgrades change, or other changes if needed, in order to really figure out what the best direction for mech is." I understand blizzard bashing from time to time, but this was just dumb.
Yeah, I am sure Blizzard wants to check stuff before they break the game. Doing everything at once is normally a bad idea.
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step by step. In ten years zvt will be balanced.
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i think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions, the new overseer buff will allow them to go ahead of army and scout for mines and be able to keep up with mutas. and you can scout the entire enemy with this new speed as well.
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Nice change since overseers just got killed everytime you'd try to run away from a terran. But I still think that zerg is a bit too fragile and I am clueless how to fix. Maybe just down to maps.
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I understand it with the mines but it feels a little strange to buff the scouting of the race that already has the most versatility in terms of scouting.
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On August 27 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
i think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions, the new overseer buff will allow them to go ahead of army and scout for mines and be able to keep up with mutas. and you can scout the entire enemy with this new speed as well.
Sounds sweet and useful, while not being broken. Scouting is good. Information is good.
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I thought it is going to be some changes to Widow mines instead..
Like the cost??
Or maybe if it target ground, its aoe is limited to ground AOE, not total AOE...
1 shot from widow mine is like, 3-4 siege tank shot? Without need upgrade, with survial option in the form of burrow..
And cost so much cheaper and easier to use.
If reduce the terran widow mine count by increasing the cost, it made the terran composition less cost-efficient maybe, giving zerg better breathing space, better money trade during fight.
The difference between WOL & HOTS TvZ is Widow mine, right? There is not much other changes..
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On August 27 2013 06:03 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
I thought it is going to be some changes to Widow mines instead..
Like the cost??
Or maybe if it target ground, its aoe is limited to ground AOE, not total AOE...
1 shot from widow mine is like, 3-4 siege tank shot? Without need upgrade, with survial option in the form of burrow..
And cost so much cheaper and easier to use.
If reduce the terran widow mine count by increasing the cost, it made the terran composition less cost-efficient maybe, giving zerg better breathing space, better money trade during fight.
The difference between WOL & HOTS TvZ is Widow mine, right? There is not much other changes..
Mostly Infestors with instant fungal and extra damage to armoured and then throwing down mass infested terrans. The usual Zerg composition in WoL was ling infestor into broodlord infestor and the widow mine isn't that strong against infestors.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 27 2013 06:03 XiaoJoyce- wrote:
The difference between WOL & HOTS TvZ is Widow mine, right? There is not much other changes..
Well, medivac speed boost (and buff to mutalisk speed because of it's existence) + fungal change (i won't call it nerf for a reason) makes infestors kinda support units, while making sure zerg has to either invest alot into static defense or go muta tech. Then there is ultralisk change, that makes it simply good, but that's iirelevant. And then there is widow mine (goddamn it, remember shredder?) and muta regen because of it's existence. So medivacs + general DPS powah of MMM (no mines) ensures that muta ling bane into infestor ultra into infestor ultra brood lord is go-to and then there is widow mine and rally push.
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That's really fucking fast. I like it though.
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On August 27 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
i think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions, the new overseer buff will allow them to go ahead of army and scout for mines and be able to keep up with mutas. and you can scout the entire enemy with this new speed as well. Sounds sweet and useful, while not being broken. Scouting is good. Information is good.
Overseer is now the fastest zerg unit (only lings are faster i think), this means overseer will killed as first unit by widow mines.
And without overseers you wont win vs terran.
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On August 27 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
i think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions, the new overseer buff will allow them to go ahead of army and scout for mines and be able to keep up with mutas. and you can scout the entire enemy with this new speed as well. Sounds sweet and useful, while not being broken. Scouting is good. Information is good.
Another benefit is that currently, its pretty much a given that any time Z tries to retreat from an engagement in ZvT, their overseers will lag behind and get picked off. Losing even a few overseers adds up to a decent amount of gas...that could otherwise be spent teching to hive and getting to upgrades. The dreaded 3/3 bio timing is as deadly as it is in part because Z has a hard time finding the spare gas to get to hive in a timely fashion. This will alleviate that specific scenario.
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On August 27 2013 06:11 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
i think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions, the new overseer buff will allow them to go ahead of army and scout for mines and be able to keep up with mutas. and you can scout the entire enemy with this new speed as well. Sounds sweet and useful, while not being broken. Scouting is good. Information is good. Overseer is now the fastest zerg unit (only lings are faster i think), this means overseer will killed as first unit by widow mines. And without overseers you wont win vs terran.
Mutas are still faster than overseers, and the fact that overseers can't keep up with them limits Zerg's ability to harass.
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On August 27 2013 06:11 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
i think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions, the new overseer buff will allow them to go ahead of army and scout for mines and be able to keep up with mutas. and you can scout the entire enemy with this new speed as well. Sounds sweet and useful, while not being broken. Scouting is good. Information is good. Overseer is now the fastest zerg unit (only lings are faster i think), this means overseer will killed as first unit by widow mines. And without overseers you wont win vs terran.
mutas?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 27 2013 06:11 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
i think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions, the new overseer buff will allow them to go ahead of army and scout for mines and be able to keep up with mutas. and you can scout the entire enemy with this new speed as well. Sounds sweet and useful, while not being broken. Scouting is good. Information is good. Overseer is now the fastest zerg unit (only lings are faster i think), this means overseer will killed as first unit by widow mines. And without overseers you wont win vs terran.
Not so fast, overseers are still slower than speed banes maybe even off-creep. And ofc, they will still lag behind mutas.
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On August 27 2013 06:13 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 06:11 Dingodile wrote:On August 27 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
i think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions, the new overseer buff will allow them to go ahead of army and scout for mines and be able to keep up with mutas. and you can scout the entire enemy with this new speed as well. Sounds sweet and useful, while not being broken. Scouting is good. Information is good. Overseer is now the fastest zerg unit (only lings are faster i think), this means overseer will killed as first unit by widow mines. And without overseers you wont win vs terran. Not so fast, overseers are still slower than speed banes maybe even off-creep. And ofc, they will still lag behind mutas.
speed banes are surprisingly slower off creep.
roaches, however, are faster on creep.
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On August 27 2013 06:11 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
i think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions, the new overseer buff will allow them to go ahead of army and scout for mines and be able to keep up with mutas. and you can scout the entire enemy with this new speed as well. Sounds sweet and useful, while not being broken. Scouting is good. Information is good. Overseer is now the fastest zerg unit (only lings are faster i think), this means overseer will killed as first unit by widow mines. And without overseers you wont win vs terran.
So it's a nerf ?
ling speed, bane speed, hydra speed, roach speed, overlord/overseer speed. The devs were not really inspired with the Z upgrades D:
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the next patch after this: zergs flyers will now get a speed boost over creep
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On August 27 2013 05:29 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:27 IdrA wrote:On August 27 2013 05:04 Zenbrez wrote:
Late game isn't bad (as long as the zerg is using late game units). It's the transition from mid game to late game that zergs are getting slaughtered in it actually is, zerg is badly outmatched in pretty much every part of the game unless they catch and punish terran being greedy Isn't that every match up for every race? You are outmatched if you don't catch your opponent being greedy and punish them for it in some way.
Not by any means, Protoss currently proceeds to endgame on equal or worse economy in PvT and PvZ.
This is no issue because units like the HT and Colossus have huge cost-efficiency vs bio in PvT and Void Ray, Carrier, Colossus/HT deathballs are basically unstoppable.
While it's reasonable to say being ahead is a good place to be for all races, being behind as Zerg right now is basically unwinnable in all 3 MU.
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On August 27 2013 06:11 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 05:56 Plansix wrote:On August 27 2013 05:53 EleanorRIgby wrote:
i think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions, the new overseer buff will allow them to go ahead of army and scout for mines and be able to keep up with mutas. and you can scout the entire enemy with this new speed as well. Sounds sweet and useful, while not being broken. Scouting is good. Information is good. Another benefit is that currently, its pretty much a given that any time Z tries to retreat from an engagement in ZvT, their overseers will lag behind and get picked off. Losing even a few overseers adds up to a decent amount of gas...that could otherwise be spent teching to hive and getting to upgrades. The dreaded 3/3 bio timing is as deadly as it is in part because Z has a hard time finding the spare gas to get to hive in a timely fashion. This will alleviate that specific scenario.
I like to call that the WoL Medivac problem. When terran would run away from protoss and the stalkers would just prance behind them, popping the medivacs with well timed shots. It was a little to harsh.
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EPT
