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On August 10 2013 04:51 BlackPanther wrote:
SC2 needs to be F2P if we want any substantial growth. I haven't seen stream viewership increase in a long time and the HotS bump did squat. The day and age of non-F2P esports is dead. Shootmania tried releasing its esports-driven shooter for $30 and no one bought it.
1. Make online matchmaking free
Yes! This would have a huge impact. The new 'Spawning' feature is a good step towards this.
2. Dramatically increase the time it takes to gain levels and increase the level cap substantially
I agree. OR, they could just add more levels, each one taking exponentially more XP to achieve (top level is 100 instead of 60?)
3. Make MANY more skins for units and buildings (give them a customization ability similar to DOTA2)
Love it! Also, animations, voice packs, and effects. BUT, give a player the option to disable seeing them if they find that they are too distracting (maybe purchasing the full game would enable the option to disable them)? 
Also, more portraits, decals, etc. Possibly of pro teams or pro players.
4. Put arcade and campaign access behind a paywall
Kind of like the app store on smart phones, etc? "Arcade" even sounds like that. You pay per game, or per hour to gain access. Buy the full game = full access?
8. Bring back the Facebook friends feature (this allowed me to play with friends I didn't know had SC2)
I really loved this feature. I wonder if Blizzard could talk with Facebook to get something like this back.
Overall, I like the idea of a F2P with rewards costing XP and/or a small amount of real money. Some rewards would only be available to people who buy the full game, etc. Lots of possibilities.
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all those people claiming that the game is dying, it isn't its just not growing as fast as league/dota you idiots take a look at league tournaments. waaaaay more people play league but if you compare the 170k they get for their biggest tournament it is not that much compared to their total active playerbase. but with sc2 that percentage of active players watching is bigger then with league.
i hate people stating that sc2 needs to go f2p because it clearly doesn't have to. like some people in this thread already stated, if they drop the price of WOL and make a WOL and HOTS package which has a discount, that could get people into the game as it is cheaper to buy, if a few days a year the trial version has full MP included that could get people into the game (because they would then experience ladder and arcade). i am going to continue to watch tournaments until the game is dead, and even then it won't stop me from looking up VODS. i love this game and people should stop whining and bitchin that this game is dying CUZ IT AIN'T so just drop the fucking hate and start loving more. fuck f2p and the dying shit, SC2 isn't #1 anymore but it damn sure is still #3 on E sports charts.
NOW STOP CLAIMING ITS DYING!
I COMMAND YOU!
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I think its pretty amaizing that sc2 got that big in the first place. 1on1 games are normally not that succesful. Quake Live is f2p and nearly dead. Shootmania costs money and has a much larger community. Even if it would be the most stupid thing ever, I'm sure that sc2 could compete with LoL and DotA 2 in terms of community size and viewer numbers if the game and tournaments would be balanced and centered around 4on4.
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Why did starcraft rise in korea and not other places? I think a lot has to do with presentation, schedule, and team play. Also a lot of it I think is that viewers paid money to watch them much like payperview for a fight. Starcraft matches have to be advertised other places like valve is doing with dota.
Yes, people have to invest in something to care about it. That is the secret to league of legends. You constantly have to pay or play to get get something. I don't think that gamers pay money for events and that is what hurts the leagues. Every person who likes starcraft should have an OSL, GSL, NASL, Dreamhack membership, but that is cluttered.
I think that the problem with starcraft is that it doesn't fit into the styles that they have. Starcraft is really hard for outsiders to get into. It doesn't has too little in game sponsorship. (there should be sponsors during the game.)
To get more attenation realize-
1. Most non-starcraft players don't come to teamliquid.
2. Most of the time you are rooting for individual players and not teams. Which is contrary to what people are used to.
3. its not clear to most new people what they are looking at in terms of match significance.
4. There are so many leagues and things. OSL, GLS, MLG, NASL, WCS, Dreamhack, GO4SC2, TeamstoryCup. Nobody really understands all of them nor their format. There is no context for all of them and how they relate. WCS tries to address that but there are no points listed anywhere, nor explanation of how the points are given that makes any sense.
5. Often brackets are hard to find.
6. There are too many games on too frequently.
7. There is not a lot of community investment into players.
I think the entire process should be redone and simplified. There are too many tournaments without an explanation of context for the major ones.If a player wins a match, does that mean that he is still doing ok? It feels like its presented like a fight when it should be more like golf. You should have the masters. The big events that pay a lot and a lot of lesser tournaments. I'm not really sure which tournaments are important. If you take 5th in MLG or at Dreamhack does one mean you are likely a better player?
Another big problem is the players themselves are presented poorly. When you go and you watch a fight. The fight lasts like 3 hours, but before the fight starts, they spend a lot of time on presentation. In golf they review the players season and talk about their points rankings and money earned.
In presentation events should explain specific players and go over recent events. They also promote more events. The only thing that does this is the NASL. They are probably the most viewer friendly, but lack a significant backing or timeline. I assume that there are major events, but the majority of pros don't go to them.
What it should be.
1. A lot more pay-per-view events or endorsing the sponsors.
1. 1 Day a week there are 3-4 1v1's in the off season.
2. The actual season of major tournaments should be about 5-6 months with a finale. .
3. preferably starting in the fall and going through until spring. (in the summer people are traveling and wanting to be outside.
4. There needs to be a general finale of all tournaments that is clearly addressed.
5. The issue of Player half-life needs to be addressed. Part of the reason that sports flourish is that the stars can be stars even in a bad environment. You can root for bad teams and you have up and coming and veterans. For example, Widow mines basically removed DRG's style of play. Maru beats innovation so every says innovation is slipping and is no longer good.
As much as i like these things, the idea of having all the star players play everywhere hurts things.
There needs to be annual tournaments in a physical location that people can go to. Especially in North America and Europe you should have a season listed all-in one at a time. All the games, all the times. This gives adequate times for sponsors to prepare, and the community time to figure out when to put aside time to watch the bigger events. The teamliquid calendar is confusing for new people.
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the argument "I'll stop watching/playing SC2 because less and less people are doing it" makes me question the level of maturity of this community. I remember like 4 years ago there was a poll and we were mostly over 20 in avrg, but the popularity being such a huge factor in your decision makes me cringe.
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As far as I'm concerned without the resignations of certain key Blizzard execs this game will never be good.
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On August 10 2013 07:32 JP Dayne wrote:
the argument "I'll stop watching/playing SC2 because less and less people are doing it" makes me question the level of maturity of this community. I remember like 4 years ago there was a poll and we were mostly over 20 in avrg, but the popularity being such a huge factor in your decision makes me cringe.
I disagree. knowing that there are tons of people enjoying something with you makes it alot more exciting.
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imo game design of sc2 is a big factor,1 clash games are not fun to watch especially in a tournament finals 
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Facing maphackers isn't very fun as well on ladder maybe patch that to start?
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I believe it lies within the nature of a good RTS that it cant be played casual to the same extent as FPS or MOBA games. Even though sc2 was dumbed down a lot compared to BW (well, the mechanics gap was scaled down) it's still not enough. Playing the game often becomes stressful rather than relaxing. 1v1 being the most popular mode to play in also makes the game less casual friendly than 3v3 or 5v5 games. Personally I find it quite sad because in the end it is not the game that requires the most diverse skill that succeeds in esports, rather it is the game with the most casual friendly environment. It sort of a lose/lose scenario, make the game even easier to play and more casual friendly = more viewership, but lowers the learning curve and takes away a lot of whats actually impressive and fun (imo) about RTS as a genre. Make the game harder to play and less casual friendly = The skills top players need to possess will be much more impressive, the game itself more complex, but you will most certainly kill it off as an esport forever, due to shutting out casual players.
The way ive always felt about BW and SC2 is that those who watch for entertainment rarely plays the game. The same thing cannot be said for LoL, Dota2 etc.
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On August 10 2013 08:14 _Search_ wrote:
As far as I'm concerned without the resignations of certain key Blizzard execs this game will never be good.
This. I've had DOTA2 for a year now (only have played a lot in the last 6 months) and there is more content and features and just cool stuff coming into this game (or has come) in that time than I have seen in 3 years of SC2. Something has to be wrong at Blizzard, a company of that size, with that kind of resource pool has to be doing nothing to do this bad of a job.
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On August 09 2013 23:31 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 23:23 Esoterikk wrote:
It's up to Blizzard to fix the game on a fundamental level, unfortunately Blizzard is the least likely to do anything because sc2 isn't their main source of income. They could "fix" anything. Realtime strategy still is not as attractive as a whole as other genres. One should rather look at the success of SC2: The first global esports RTS.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Genres of games get less and more popular by time. Nowdays everyone is about action RTS or moba's as they call it. Same reason that if you made a quake like fps it simply won't get as popular as quake used to be cause everyone is into COD that that kind of games.
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So many things to think of from major to minor, the main thing though is that SC2 is hard and can be intimidating, Think it'd be a good idea to make a dumbed down mode for casuals to learn the basics and be a bridge from total newb to the ladder. Still essentially the same game but less macro and depth, streamline it and focus on the fun stuff, micro and battles without overwhelming people's multitasking capabilities. Perhaps lower the supply cap and alter the way resources work so you don't need as many workers or bases, smaller maps etc. It'll always be a shadow of the real game but if it was free to play, part of the arcade or a separate mode, would act as a nice gateway drug to get them hooked, or something to mess around with when you wanna dick about.Sounds horrible to the purists I know, and I'm sure I'll get shit for it, but it's not directed at them.
Probably worded it badly and haven't thought it out completely but I think there's something there. Doubt anything will come of it, but I think SC2 needs some sort of mechanism to make it easier for noobs to experience a taste of the game without having to devote so much time and energy. Something of the sort would act as a launching pad for new viewers and new players hopefully, or a way to introduce your friends to the game without melting their minds.
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I want to customize my units. Just something outside the game itself... Cause playing the same thing over and over again with no change is just boring... not interesting... I think most people feel the same about it and thats why people pick starcraft2 up and drop it or just try it and never buy it.
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On August 09 2013 21:41 aka_star wrote:
We're 3 years into it, its kinda safe to say the SC2 boom has passed and we should be expecting a decline. The numbers never could touch the free to play games, to be honest speed running Zelda 64 today gets more viewers than some SC2 tournaments. Sad but true and it raises more money through donations whereas SC2 fans hate dropping $5 for a ticket. I'm speculating SC2 will have to go back to being a niche game like the old BW days but to be honest I know nothing.
You're right. Cosmo consistently gets 4-5k+ every time he streams. He's been over 10k before.
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Grow starcraft? Mainstream advertising aimed at people who have never heard of eSports. Worked on me, but we can't all happen to have lunch with a masters level zerg.
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Starcraft has to be the only game where so many people vocally hate the game, it's design, it's genre, and the developer yet still spend most of their time dicussing it/watching it. It's pretty hilarious to be a part of.
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Stop worrying about streaming numbers my god. I would never watch someone ladder, I don't care who it is but I watch all of SPL, GSL, and OSL.
I don't watch EU one NA WCS but most of that is because it's not in front of a big audience like Korean tourneys and even the foreign finals are a bracket and not an actual finals like OSL et al.
Tournaments should be live in front of crowds. Finals should have at least a weeks worth of hype for one match. Without that it hardly feels like a sport.
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On August 10 2013 00:06 KJSharp wrote:
If playing starcraft 2 made you feel more like a general commanding a war, and less like a battle or a chess match, it would garner a highest viewership. No matter how cool the game looks from a spectator's point of view, it is lacking the element of "epicness" that can't come from cool laser beams.
It's harder to be more wrong than this. The whole point of Starcraft is that it's a fight, a chess match and a poker game all in one. This is the attraction from a spectator point of view.
You are talking about from a playing point of view, but those sorts of games cannot be eSports, their mechanical skill ceiling is simply far too low.
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EPT
