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We are not losing viewers and growing starcraft doesn't have jack to do with WCS.
Ofc there was a huge increase when HOTS was released, people checking the game out but not much more.
Theres one big thing to grow SC2, f2p.
I know much would have to be changed but thats the "easiest" thing to point at.
Other than just that Blizzard could support the local scene more as well as easying up on requiring organizers to actually pay to host events.
Local internet cafes, school clubs and LANs, give out some stuff so they can get hooked.
(this is actually already done but pretty small by Blizzard but in a really small extent)
Wouldn't it be cool if one of your local LANs that hold some smaller tournaments could easily contact Blizzard, get some copies of SC2 to give out and have a CE game or signed copy to give out as prizes?
Damn right it would!
(maybe even Blizzard could create special codes for HOTS so everyone could try out the full MP with Arcade, for 2-3days during the LAN but only during the dates when it's hold)
Theres tons of stuff that can grow our player base but sadly a lot relies on Blizzard actually letting people in.
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On August 10 2013 04:40 []Phase[] wrote:
What a depressing thread.
Who cares, I'm watching TI3. I'll play SC2 when I get home from work. 
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On August 10 2013 04:33 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:23 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:04 superstartran wrote:
SC2 took too long to get things fixed. For almost a full year you had nothing but Infestor deathballs/Colossus Deathballs/MMM and Blizzard refused to fix the problem. HotS isn't much better; you still have the same old dynamics, just minor changes here and there. They failed to make a game that is both interesting to watch and to play, i.e. they sucked it up. Not surprising at all. Yeah, honestly watching SC2 is just painful for me now. After watching it since Beta, the same 15-20 minute games that play out exactly the same every single time are just so boring. Protoss turtles till death ball - wins, Zerg roach rushes, wins, Zerg stops Protoss all game - Loses, Terran kills things with marines. You can tout creativity as much as you want but in the end 90% of the games I watch are games i've seen countless times before. Not to mention that the game is fizzling so hard that it's borderline depressing to even pay attention to now. Like it kills me the amount of viewers that people like Day 9 get now as opposed to what they once had. I love Day 9, but man is it depressing seeing numbers for these guys dwindling. Last night on twitch there were 4k viewers for SC2, 3.5k were Artosis and the last 500 were spread out across like 100 other streams. I guess this isn't really a how to fix things post, but if you still like watching SC2, then watch it. Because honestly I think that's the only way this community can keep it alive right now. Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. The community keeps the game going, and right now the community behind SC2 is dwindling while others thrive. Watch your game, because it goes a long way. /rant Why does the number of people watching an event effect you watching what you want? The age old question. Pretty pathetic, don't you think? "Oh I cannot enjoy this anymore because it isn't trendy anymore. Just look at those numbers wah wah wah" I really wish some of you could hear yourselves or reflect back on what you post sometime because it is borderline cuckoo cuckoo.
You're doing the same thing son, literally all these things are popping up and declining viewer numbers is at the root of it. Do you think MLG is dropping the game because of mechanics or gameplay or some other thing? They're dropping it because not enough people watch it and get excited about it anymore. Viewers is everything.
And I base watching SC2 on viewers because I honestly just find it so boring to watch now. But if there were tons of viewers obviously Id look to see what was going on.
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On August 10 2013 04:42 Noro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:23 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:04 superstartran wrote:
SC2 took too long to get things fixed. For almost a full year you had nothing but Infestor deathballs/Colossus Deathballs/MMM and Blizzard refused to fix the problem. HotS isn't much better; you still have the same old dynamics, just minor changes here and there. They failed to make a game that is both interesting to watch and to play, i.e. they sucked it up. Not surprising at all. Yeah, honestly watching SC2 is just painful for me now. After watching it since Beta, the same 15-20 minute games that play out exactly the same every single time are just so boring. Protoss turtles till death ball - wins, Zerg roach rushes, wins, Zerg stops Protoss all game - Loses, Terran kills things with marines. You can tout creativity as much as you want but in the end 90% of the games I watch are games i've seen countless times before. Not to mention that the game is fizzling so hard that it's borderline depressing to even pay attention to now. Like it kills me the amount of viewers that people like Day 9 get now as opposed to what they once had. I love Day 9, but man is it depressing seeing numbers for these guys dwindling. Last night on twitch there were 4k viewers for SC2, 3.5k were Artosis and the last 500 were spread out across like 100 other streams. I guess this isn't really a how to fix things post, but if you still like watching SC2, then watch it. Because honestly I think that's the only way this community can keep it alive right now. Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. The community keeps the game going, and right now the community behind SC2 is dwindling while others thrive. Watch your game, because it goes a long way. /rant Why does the number of people watching an event effect you watching what you want? The age old question. Pretty pathetic, don't you think? "Oh I cannot enjoy this anymore because it isn't trendy anymore. Just look at those numbers wah wah wah" I really wish some of you could hear yourselves or reflect back on what you post sometime because it is borderline cuckoo cuckoo. You're doing the same thing son, literally all these things are popping up and declining viewer numbers is at the root of it. Do you think MLG is dropping the game because of mechanics or gameplay or some other thing? They're dropping it because not enough people watch it and get excited about it anymore. Viewers is everything. And I base watching SC2 on viewers because I honestly just find it so boring to watch now. But if there were tons of viewers obviously Id look to see what was going on.
Son? I'm over 30. What am I doing? I'm mocking people like you. I am very secure with talking about SC2 with anyone. I don't push things. I accept the scene for what is. So you tell me how I'm doing the same thing as you because you and I couldn't be more different. Sorry bucko but I don't buy those can of worms for one second.
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On August 10 2013 04:45 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:42 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:23 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:04 superstartran wrote:
SC2 took too long to get things fixed. For almost a full year you had nothing but Infestor deathballs/Colossus Deathballs/MMM and Blizzard refused to fix the problem. HotS isn't much better; you still have the same old dynamics, just minor changes here and there. They failed to make a game that is both interesting to watch and to play, i.e. they sucked it up. Not surprising at all. Yeah, honestly watching SC2 is just painful for me now. After watching it since Beta, the same 15-20 minute games that play out exactly the same every single time are just so boring. Protoss turtles till death ball - wins, Zerg roach rushes, wins, Zerg stops Protoss all game - Loses, Terran kills things with marines. You can tout creativity as much as you want but in the end 90% of the games I watch are games i've seen countless times before. Not to mention that the game is fizzling so hard that it's borderline depressing to even pay attention to now. Like it kills me the amount of viewers that people like Day 9 get now as opposed to what they once had. I love Day 9, but man is it depressing seeing numbers for these guys dwindling. Last night on twitch there were 4k viewers for SC2, 3.5k were Artosis and the last 500 were spread out across like 100 other streams. I guess this isn't really a how to fix things post, but if you still like watching SC2, then watch it. Because honestly I think that's the only way this community can keep it alive right now. Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. The community keeps the game going, and right now the community behind SC2 is dwindling while others thrive. Watch your game, because it goes a long way. /rant Why does the number of people watching an event effect you watching what you want? The age old question. Pretty pathetic, don't you think? "Oh I cannot enjoy this anymore because it isn't trendy anymore. Just look at those numbers wah wah wah" I really wish some of you could hear yourselves or reflect back on what you post sometime because it is borderline cuckoo cuckoo. You're doing the same thing son, literally all these things are popping up and declining viewer numbers is at the root of it. Do you think MLG is dropping the game because of mechanics or gameplay or some other thing? They're dropping it because not enough people watch it and get excited about it anymore. Viewers is everything. And I base watching SC2 on viewers because I honestly just find it so boring to watch now. But if there were tons of viewers obviously Id look to see what was going on. Son? I'm over 30. What am I doing? I'm mocking people like you. I am very secure with talking about SC2 with anyone. I don't push things. I accept the scene for what is. So you tell me how I'm doing the same thing as you because you and I couldn't be more different. Sorry bucko but I don't buy those can of worms for one second.
boom roasted
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On August 10 2013 04:42 Noro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:23 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:04 superstartran wrote:
SC2 took too long to get things fixed. For almost a full year you had nothing but Infestor deathballs/Colossus Deathballs/MMM and Blizzard refused to fix the problem. HotS isn't much better; you still have the same old dynamics, just minor changes here and there. They failed to make a game that is both interesting to watch and to play, i.e. they sucked it up. Not surprising at all. Yeah, honestly watching SC2 is just painful for me now. After watching it since Beta, the same 15-20 minute games that play out exactly the same every single time are just so boring. Protoss turtles till death ball - wins, Zerg roach rushes, wins, Zerg stops Protoss all game - Loses, Terran kills things with marines. You can tout creativity as much as you want but in the end 90% of the games I watch are games i've seen countless times before. Not to mention that the game is fizzling so hard that it's borderline depressing to even pay attention to now. Like it kills me the amount of viewers that people like Day 9 get now as opposed to what they once had. I love Day 9, but man is it depressing seeing numbers for these guys dwindling. Last night on twitch there were 4k viewers for SC2, 3.5k were Artosis and the last 500 were spread out across like 100 other streams. I guess this isn't really a how to fix things post, but if you still like watching SC2, then watch it. Because honestly I think that's the only way this community can keep it alive right now. Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. The community keeps the game going, and right now the community behind SC2 is dwindling while others thrive. Watch your game, because it goes a long way. /rant Why does the number of people watching an event effect you watching what you want? The age old question. Pretty pathetic, don't you think? "Oh I cannot enjoy this anymore because it isn't trendy anymore. Just look at those numbers wah wah wah" I really wish some of you could hear yourselves or reflect back on what you post sometime because it is borderline cuckoo cuckoo. You're doing the same thing son, literally all these things are popping up and declining viewer numbers is at the root of it. Do you think MLG is dropping the game because of mechanics or gameplay or some other thing? They're dropping it because not enough people watch it and get excited about it anymore. Viewers is everything. And I base watching SC2 on viewers because I honestly just find it so boring to watch now. But if there were tons of viewers obviously Id look to see what was going on.
What are you basing that on?
If you actually looked at numbers you would see that the viewers are still here and actually increased.
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It isn't the fans responsibility to make it grow, its Blizzards. If Blizzard doesn't want to promote their game and allow other companies to prosper off of their game in turn making it bigger and more popular, than theres nothing more to say. As long as Korea continues with Proleague, GSL/OSL and there are some leagues for foreigner watching Sc2 will be around for a long time. Enjoy it and stop trying to make it a charity case..there are much other important causes to promote than whine about how Sc2 is getting its ass kicked by Mobas and we should spend more money to make it "grow".
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Blizzard should lower game prices for new gamers. Perhaps provide WOL and HOTS combo pack for $49.99 so people interested in sc2 will be more enticed to go out and buy it. Perhaps also a lower HOTS price for the expansion since its been out a bit. I still see a lot of gamers on WOL who haven't made the switch. The main issue I see between us and the other games is accessibly. LoL, Dota2, and I believe world of tanks might be wrong are all free to play. I'm not saying blizzard should go this route but we need to make the game more accessible to more gamers. I have spoken with a lot of gamers outside the scene and most of them are not interested in trying an RTS because it just isn't what they are use too. I believe offering SC2 WOL/HOTS at a lower rate will make it more accessible for those first time RTS players. We have a great product but we need to get a wider reach within the entire gaming community.
Just some food for thought.
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On August 10 2013 04:45 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:42 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:23 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:04 superstartran wrote:
SC2 took too long to get things fixed. For almost a full year you had nothing but Infestor deathballs/Colossus Deathballs/MMM and Blizzard refused to fix the problem. HotS isn't much better; you still have the same old dynamics, just minor changes here and there. They failed to make a game that is both interesting to watch and to play, i.e. they sucked it up. Not surprising at all. Yeah, honestly watching SC2 is just painful for me now. After watching it since Beta, the same 15-20 minute games that play out exactly the same every single time are just so boring. Protoss turtles till death ball - wins, Zerg roach rushes, wins, Zerg stops Protoss all game - Loses, Terran kills things with marines. You can tout creativity as much as you want but in the end 90% of the games I watch are games i've seen countless times before. Not to mention that the game is fizzling so hard that it's borderline depressing to even pay attention to now. Like it kills me the amount of viewers that people like Day 9 get now as opposed to what they once had. I love Day 9, but man is it depressing seeing numbers for these guys dwindling. Last night on twitch there were 4k viewers for SC2, 3.5k were Artosis and the last 500 were spread out across like 100 other streams. I guess this isn't really a how to fix things post, but if you still like watching SC2, then watch it. Because honestly I think that's the only way this community can keep it alive right now. Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. The community keeps the game going, and right now the community behind SC2 is dwindling while others thrive. Watch your game, because it goes a long way. /rant Why does the number of people watching an event effect you watching what you want? The age old question. Pretty pathetic, don't you think? "Oh I cannot enjoy this anymore because it isn't trendy anymore. Just look at those numbers wah wah wah" I really wish some of you could hear yourselves or reflect back on what you post sometime because it is borderline cuckoo cuckoo. You're doing the same thing son, literally all these things are popping up and declining viewer numbers is at the root of it. Do you think MLG is dropping the game because of mechanics or gameplay or some other thing? They're dropping it because not enough people watch it and get excited about it anymore. Viewers is everything. And I base watching SC2 on viewers because I honestly just find it so boring to watch now. But if there were tons of viewers obviously Id look to see what was going on. Son? I'm over 30. What am I doing? I'm mocking people like you. I am very secure with talking about SC2 with anyone. I don't push things. I accept the scene for what is. So you tell me how I'm doing the same thing as you because you and I couldn't be more different. Sorry bucko but I don't buy those can of worms for one second.
But if there aren't hundreds of thousands of other people liking it, how will I know whether or not I like it? 
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SC2 needs to be F2P if we want any substantial growth. I haven't seen stream viewership increase in a long time and the HotS bump did squat. The day and age of non-F2P esports is dead. Shootmania tried releasing its esports-driven shooter for $30 and no one bought it.
I think it should be done like this.
1. Make online matchmaking free
2. Dramatically increase the time it takes to gain levels and increase the level cap substantially
3. Make MANY more skins for units and buildings (give them a customization ability similar to DOTA2)
4. Put arcade and campaign access behind a paywall
5. Allow people to watch their friends play (with a time delay, or a locked perspective)
6. In-client tournament viewing (obviously)
7. People who pay full retail price get premium tournament content (1080p + more feeds) from major tournaments like NASL, MLG, GSL, etc.
8. Bring back the Facebook friends feature (this allowed me to play with friends I didn't know had SC2)
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On August 10 2013 04:45 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:42 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:23 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:04 superstartran wrote:
SC2 took too long to get things fixed. For almost a full year you had nothing but Infestor deathballs/Colossus Deathballs/MMM and Blizzard refused to fix the problem. HotS isn't much better; you still have the same old dynamics, just minor changes here and there. They failed to make a game that is both interesting to watch and to play, i.e. they sucked it up. Not surprising at all. Yeah, honestly watching SC2 is just painful for me now. After watching it since Beta, the same 15-20 minute games that play out exactly the same every single time are just so boring. Protoss turtles till death ball - wins, Zerg roach rushes, wins, Zerg stops Protoss all game - Loses, Terran kills things with marines. You can tout creativity as much as you want but in the end 90% of the games I watch are games i've seen countless times before. Not to mention that the game is fizzling so hard that it's borderline depressing to even pay attention to now. Like it kills me the amount of viewers that people like Day 9 get now as opposed to what they once had. I love Day 9, but man is it depressing seeing numbers for these guys dwindling. Last night on twitch there were 4k viewers for SC2, 3.5k were Artosis and the last 500 were spread out across like 100 other streams. I guess this isn't really a how to fix things post, but if you still like watching SC2, then watch it. Because honestly I think that's the only way this community can keep it alive right now. Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. The community keeps the game going, and right now the community behind SC2 is dwindling while others thrive. Watch your game, because it goes a long way. /rant Why does the number of people watching an event effect you watching what you want? The age old question. Pretty pathetic, don't you think? "Oh I cannot enjoy this anymore because it isn't trendy anymore. Just look at those numbers wah wah wah" I really wish some of you could hear yourselves or reflect back on what you post sometime because it is borderline cuckoo cuckoo. You're doing the same thing son, literally all these things are popping up and declining viewer numbers is at the root of it. Do you think MLG is dropping the game because of mechanics or gameplay or some other thing? They're dropping it because not enough people watch it and get excited about it anymore. Viewers is everything. And I base watching SC2 on viewers because I honestly just find it so boring to watch now. But if there were tons of viewers obviously Id look to see what was going on. Son? I'm over 30. What am I doing? I'm mocking people like you. I am very secure with talking about SC2 with anyone. I don't push things. I accept the scene for what is. So you tell me how I'm doing the same thing as you because you and I couldn't be more different. Sorry bucko but I don't buy those can of worms for one second.
Congrats on being alive for so long, son, and on being a condecending ass hole. "You" are the collective that keeps asking "how do we help things?" and the answer is, you can keep watching, but other than that, there's nothing you can do. I also accept the scene for what it is, a dying game still leeching off of it's predecessors glory. I never said you should stop watching it, I merely said why I am no longer watching it. I wondered why that was so hard for you to comprehend but really someone who would use the word "bucko" clearly doesn't have a shred of sense floating around in their brain. If you actually see the scene for what it is, you'll know I'm right.
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On August 10 2013 04:49 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:45 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:42 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:23 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:04 superstartran wrote:
SC2 took too long to get things fixed. For almost a full year you had nothing but Infestor deathballs/Colossus Deathballs/MMM and Blizzard refused to fix the problem. HotS isn't much better; you still have the same old dynamics, just minor changes here and there. They failed to make a game that is both interesting to watch and to play, i.e. they sucked it up. Not surprising at all. Yeah, honestly watching SC2 is just painful for me now. After watching it since Beta, the same 15-20 minute games that play out exactly the same every single time are just so boring. Protoss turtles till death ball - wins, Zerg roach rushes, wins, Zerg stops Protoss all game - Loses, Terran kills things with marines. You can tout creativity as much as you want but in the end 90% of the games I watch are games i've seen countless times before. Not to mention that the game is fizzling so hard that it's borderline depressing to even pay attention to now. Like it kills me the amount of viewers that people like Day 9 get now as opposed to what they once had. I love Day 9, but man is it depressing seeing numbers for these guys dwindling. Last night on twitch there were 4k viewers for SC2, 3.5k were Artosis and the last 500 were spread out across like 100 other streams. I guess this isn't really a how to fix things post, but if you still like watching SC2, then watch it. Because honestly I think that's the only way this community can keep it alive right now. Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. The community keeps the game going, and right now the community behind SC2 is dwindling while others thrive. Watch your game, because it goes a long way. /rant Why does the number of people watching an event effect you watching what you want? The age old question. Pretty pathetic, don't you think? "Oh I cannot enjoy this anymore because it isn't trendy anymore. Just look at those numbers wah wah wah" I really wish some of you could hear yourselves or reflect back on what you post sometime because it is borderline cuckoo cuckoo. You're doing the same thing son, literally all these things are popping up and declining viewer numbers is at the root of it. Do you think MLG is dropping the game because of mechanics or gameplay or some other thing? They're dropping it because not enough people watch it and get excited about it anymore. Viewers is everything. And I base watching SC2 on viewers because I honestly just find it so boring to watch now. But if there were tons of viewers obviously Id look to see what was going on. Son? I'm over 30. What am I doing? I'm mocking people like you. I am very secure with talking about SC2 with anyone. I don't push things. I accept the scene for what is. So you tell me how I'm doing the same thing as you because you and I couldn't be more different. Sorry bucko but I don't buy those can of worms for one second. But if there aren't hundreds of thousands of other people liking it, how will I know whether or not I like it?
The community is a very good indicator of what is worth watching. The best shows on television have the most viewers. Its not an accident.
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On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:
Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat.
Because you like the game? Or do you just like watching crowds of people and loud chanting?
I don't need to respond to the rest of your post because even where I disagree it is at least debatable but this..
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On August 10 2013 05:03 Noro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:49 zefreak wrote:On August 10 2013 04:45 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:42 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:23 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:04 superstartran wrote:
SC2 took too long to get things fixed. For almost a full year you had nothing but Infestor deathballs/Colossus Deathballs/MMM and Blizzard refused to fix the problem. HotS isn't much better; you still have the same old dynamics, just minor changes here and there. They failed to make a game that is both interesting to watch and to play, i.e. they sucked it up. Not surprising at all. Yeah, honestly watching SC2 is just painful for me now. After watching it since Beta, the same 15-20 minute games that play out exactly the same every single time are just so boring. Protoss turtles till death ball - wins, Zerg roach rushes, wins, Zerg stops Protoss all game - Loses, Terran kills things with marines. You can tout creativity as much as you want but in the end 90% of the games I watch are games i've seen countless times before. Not to mention that the game is fizzling so hard that it's borderline depressing to even pay attention to now. Like it kills me the amount of viewers that people like Day 9 get now as opposed to what they once had. I love Day 9, but man is it depressing seeing numbers for these guys dwindling. Last night on twitch there were 4k viewers for SC2, 3.5k were Artosis and the last 500 were spread out across like 100 other streams. I guess this isn't really a how to fix things post, but if you still like watching SC2, then watch it. Because honestly I think that's the only way this community can keep it alive right now. Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. The community keeps the game going, and right now the community behind SC2 is dwindling while others thrive. Watch your game, because it goes a long way. /rant Why does the number of people watching an event effect you watching what you want? The age old question. Pretty pathetic, don't you think? "Oh I cannot enjoy this anymore because it isn't trendy anymore. Just look at those numbers wah wah wah" I really wish some of you could hear yourselves or reflect back on what you post sometime because it is borderline cuckoo cuckoo. You're doing the same thing son, literally all these things are popping up and declining viewer numbers is at the root of it. Do you think MLG is dropping the game because of mechanics or gameplay or some other thing? They're dropping it because not enough people watch it and get excited about it anymore. Viewers is everything. And I base watching SC2 on viewers because I honestly just find it so boring to watch now. But if there were tons of viewers obviously Id look to see what was going on. Son? I'm over 30. What am I doing? I'm mocking people like you. I am very secure with talking about SC2 with anyone. I don't push things. I accept the scene for what is. So you tell me how I'm doing the same thing as you because you and I couldn't be more different. Sorry bucko but I don't buy those can of worms for one second. But if there aren't hundreds of thousands of other people liking it, how will I know whether or not I like it? The community is a very good indicator of what is worth watching. The best shows on television have the most viewers. Its not an accident.
Ok, well if you know anything about film or music or literature you would know this is just wrong.
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On August 10 2013 05:05 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:
Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. Because you like the game? Or do you just like watching crowds of people and loud chanting? I don't need to respond to the rest of your post because even where I disagree it is at least debatable but this..
I didn't know a thing about League until I watched the season 2 finals. And seeing that kind of response to a game was amazing. And it got me into the game, and now I enjoy it a great deal, and I like that there is such a massive community to share that with. The two are co-related.
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On August 10 2013 05:06 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 05:03 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:49 zefreak wrote:On August 10 2013 04:45 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:42 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:23 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:04 superstartran wrote:
SC2 took too long to get things fixed. For almost a full year you had nothing but Infestor deathballs/Colossus Deathballs/MMM and Blizzard refused to fix the problem. HotS isn't much better; you still have the same old dynamics, just minor changes here and there. They failed to make a game that is both interesting to watch and to play, i.e. they sucked it up. Not surprising at all. Yeah, honestly watching SC2 is just painful for me now. After watching it since Beta, the same 15-20 minute games that play out exactly the same every single time are just so boring. Protoss turtles till death ball - wins, Zerg roach rushes, wins, Zerg stops Protoss all game - Loses, Terran kills things with marines. You can tout creativity as much as you want but in the end 90% of the games I watch are games i've seen countless times before. Not to mention that the game is fizzling so hard that it's borderline depressing to even pay attention to now. Like it kills me the amount of viewers that people like Day 9 get now as opposed to what they once had. I love Day 9, but man is it depressing seeing numbers for these guys dwindling. Last night on twitch there were 4k viewers for SC2, 3.5k were Artosis and the last 500 were spread out across like 100 other streams. I guess this isn't really a how to fix things post, but if you still like watching SC2, then watch it. Because honestly I think that's the only way this community can keep it alive right now. Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. The community keeps the game going, and right now the community behind SC2 is dwindling while others thrive. Watch your game, because it goes a long way. /rant Why does the number of people watching an event effect you watching what you want? The age old question. Pretty pathetic, don't you think? "Oh I cannot enjoy this anymore because it isn't trendy anymore. Just look at those numbers wah wah wah" I really wish some of you could hear yourselves or reflect back on what you post sometime because it is borderline cuckoo cuckoo. You're doing the same thing son, literally all these things are popping up and declining viewer numbers is at the root of it. Do you think MLG is dropping the game because of mechanics or gameplay or some other thing? They're dropping it because not enough people watch it and get excited about it anymore. Viewers is everything. And I base watching SC2 on viewers because I honestly just find it so boring to watch now. But if there were tons of viewers obviously Id look to see what was going on. Son? I'm over 30. What am I doing? I'm mocking people like you. I am very secure with talking about SC2 with anyone. I don't push things. I accept the scene for what is. So you tell me how I'm doing the same thing as you because you and I couldn't be more different. Sorry bucko but I don't buy those can of worms for one second. But if there aren't hundreds of thousands of other people liking it, how will I know whether or not I like it? The community is a very good indicator of what is worth watching. The best shows on television have the most viewers. Its not an accident. Ok, well if you know anything about film or music or literature you would know this is just wrong.
If there's only a handful of people devoted to the game as opposed to thousands, why would I want to become devoted to it? Community devotion shows worth in this industry. We can agree to disagree, but if people aren't watching or playing, then there's probably some issues there. OR it just isn't exposed enough, but SC2 is very well known.
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I'd like to mention something..
When I first got the feeling that starcraft was "dying", I got this hole in my stomach.. I felt that in just a short time, bnet would be empty and nobody would be playing the game anymore. I'm sure a SOMEWHAT similar feeling has hit a lot of other people. Because by the reactions we are seeing, this is a big deal for a lot of people - that sc2 is declining / stopped growing / too much competition via other games.
Now I'd just like to remind people that we love the game, and the game will still be played for years and years. I remember back when I was playing counter strike: source at a reasonably high level in the Norwegian scene. At tops, it would be 400 people idling the main channel, and there was very few tournaments with any good money. The best one could hope for was local lan parties and some online cups for nickles and dimes. But I still loved that game and had fun with it every day. Its no catastrophy if starcraft isn't a stadium sport with superstars earning millions.. I mean, I don't think a single game EVER will get to that stage (and keep there). When eSports grows (which I believe it will do for very many years, becoming huge), there will still be a lot of games being played, and they will vary in popularity globally. But that doesn't mean we can enjoy OUR game. Starcraft is in WAY WAY WAY better shape than CSS ever was, and CSS was perfectly enjoyable from a competitive standpoint even though basically nobody could be a PRO CSS player. I think the absolute best team earned like 50K USD a year or something..
TL;DR: We can all still enjoy our game, the competition doesn't matter to us, we will still have people that loves to play the game, great players will still play the game etcetc
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On August 10 2013 05:02 Noro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:45 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:42 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:23 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:04 superstartran wrote:
SC2 took too long to get things fixed. For almost a full year you had nothing but Infestor deathballs/Colossus Deathballs/MMM and Blizzard refused to fix the problem. HotS isn't much better; you still have the same old dynamics, just minor changes here and there. They failed to make a game that is both interesting to watch and to play, i.e. they sucked it up. Not surprising at all. Yeah, honestly watching SC2 is just painful for me now. After watching it since Beta, the same 15-20 minute games that play out exactly the same every single time are just so boring. Protoss turtles till death ball - wins, Zerg roach rushes, wins, Zerg stops Protoss all game - Loses, Terran kills things with marines. You can tout creativity as much as you want but in the end 90% of the games I watch are games i've seen countless times before. Not to mention that the game is fizzling so hard that it's borderline depressing to even pay attention to now. Like it kills me the amount of viewers that people like Day 9 get now as opposed to what they once had. I love Day 9, but man is it depressing seeing numbers for these guys dwindling. Last night on twitch there were 4k viewers for SC2, 3.5k were Artosis and the last 500 were spread out across like 100 other streams. I guess this isn't really a how to fix things post, but if you still like watching SC2, then watch it. Because honestly I think that's the only way this community can keep it alive right now. Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. The community keeps the game going, and right now the community behind SC2 is dwindling while others thrive. Watch your game, because it goes a long way. /rant Why does the number of people watching an event effect you watching what you want? The age old question. Pretty pathetic, don't you think? "Oh I cannot enjoy this anymore because it isn't trendy anymore. Just look at those numbers wah wah wah" I really wish some of you could hear yourselves or reflect back on what you post sometime because it is borderline cuckoo cuckoo. You're doing the same thing son, literally all these things are popping up and declining viewer numbers is at the root of it. Do you think MLG is dropping the game because of mechanics or gameplay or some other thing? They're dropping it because not enough people watch it and get excited about it anymore. Viewers is everything. And I base watching SC2 on viewers because I honestly just find it so boring to watch now. But if there were tons of viewers obviously Id look to see what was going on. Son? I'm over 30. What am I doing? I'm mocking people like you. I am very secure with talking about SC2 with anyone. I don't push things. I accept the scene for what is. So you tell me how I'm doing the same thing as you because you and I couldn't be more different. Sorry bucko but I don't buy those can of worms for one second. Congrats on being alive for so long, son, and on being a condecending ass hole. "You" are the collective that keeps asking "how do we help things?" and the answer is, you can keep watching, but other than that, there's nothing you can do. I also accept the scene for what it is, a dying game still leeching off of it's predecessors glory. I never said you should stop watching it, I merely said why I am no longer watching it. I wondered why that was so hard for you to comprehend but really someone who would use the word "bucko" clearly doesn't have a shred of sense floating around in their brain. If you actually see the scene for what it is, you'll know I'm right.
Cute. I'm going to ignore all the fluff. I'm getting tired of people saying the game is dying when it isn't. Yes, you said why you aren't watching and I told you it's a pathetic excuse. I'm glad you don't watch it yet still post in the SC2 general section because I don't like bandwagoners. I'd argue you were never a real fan to begin with. I use bucko a lot on these boards when I find someone of your aptitude and it's not my fault you aren't familiar with it and bitch about it. I couldn't disagree more with your looking for acceptance from other's attitude. I find that very weak. While others were playing all the new trendy games guess what I was doing? Playing BW. I don't care what other people think. I don't go out of my way to fit into the crowd. That's not me. Dwelling on the fanbase is borderline idiotic. If you don't like how the game plays out then move on and stop bitching about numbers because as far as I'm concerned we don't need people like you around here.
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On August 10 2013 05:11 Noro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 05:06 zefreak wrote:On August 10 2013 05:03 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:49 zefreak wrote:On August 10 2013 04:45 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:42 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:33 StarStruck wrote:On August 10 2013 04:23 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 10 2013 04:21 Noro wrote:On August 10 2013 04:04 superstartran wrote:
SC2 took too long to get things fixed. For almost a full year you had nothing but Infestor deathballs/Colossus Deathballs/MMM and Blizzard refused to fix the problem. HotS isn't much better; you still have the same old dynamics, just minor changes here and there. They failed to make a game that is both interesting to watch and to play, i.e. they sucked it up. Not surprising at all. Yeah, honestly watching SC2 is just painful for me now. After watching it since Beta, the same 15-20 minute games that play out exactly the same every single time are just so boring. Protoss turtles till death ball - wins, Zerg roach rushes, wins, Zerg stops Protoss all game - Loses, Terran kills things with marines. You can tout creativity as much as you want but in the end 90% of the games I watch are games i've seen countless times before. Not to mention that the game is fizzling so hard that it's borderline depressing to even pay attention to now. Like it kills me the amount of viewers that people like Day 9 get now as opposed to what they once had. I love Day 9, but man is it depressing seeing numbers for these guys dwindling. Last night on twitch there were 4k viewers for SC2, 3.5k were Artosis and the last 500 were spread out across like 100 other streams. I guess this isn't really a how to fix things post, but if you still like watching SC2, then watch it. Because honestly I think that's the only way this community can keep it alive right now. Personally I'll always be drawn to the biggest and baddest -- LoL finals at the Staples Center, TI3 with the biggest prize pool in history? Why in the world would I ever choose to watch a 20k viewer stream of a WCS FINALS when any random tournament game for League or Dota will fetch 2, 3 even 4 times the viewer numbers without breaking a sweat. The community keeps the game going, and right now the community behind SC2 is dwindling while others thrive. Watch your game, because it goes a long way. /rant Why does the number of people watching an event effect you watching what you want? The age old question. Pretty pathetic, don't you think? "Oh I cannot enjoy this anymore because it isn't trendy anymore. Just look at those numbers wah wah wah" I really wish some of you could hear yourselves or reflect back on what you post sometime because it is borderline cuckoo cuckoo. You're doing the same thing son, literally all these things are popping up and declining viewer numbers is at the root of it. Do you think MLG is dropping the game because of mechanics or gameplay or some other thing? They're dropping it because not enough people watch it and get excited about it anymore. Viewers is everything. And I base watching SC2 on viewers because I honestly just find it so boring to watch now. But if there were tons of viewers obviously Id look to see what was going on. Son? I'm over 30. What am I doing? I'm mocking people like you. I am very secure with talking about SC2 with anyone. I don't push things. I accept the scene for what is. So you tell me how I'm doing the same thing as you because you and I couldn't be more different. Sorry bucko but I don't buy those can of worms for one second. But if there aren't hundreds of thousands of other people liking it, how will I know whether or not I like it? The community is a very good indicator of what is worth watching. The best shows on television have the most viewers. Its not an accident. Ok, well if you know anything about film or music or literature you would know this is just wrong. If there's only a handful of people devoted to the game as opposed to thousands, why would I want to become devoted to it? Community devotion shows worth in this industry. We can agree to disagree, but if people aren't watching or playing, then there's probably some issues there. OR it just isn't exposed enough, but SC2 is very well known.
I much rather party with the die-hards who have the actual passion for the game then some fucking hipster who only follows some shit because everyone else does.
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On August 10 2013 05:11 Noro wrote:
If there's only a handful of people devoted to the game as opposed to thousands, why would I want to become devoted to it?
Because the game intrigues you? Maybe you have never really been captured by a game before. It happened to me with Go, and it happened with Starcraft. All of this hype, money, crowd, production etc is superfluous. If the game truly grabs your imagination, you won't care about who is watching what. If all you care about is the competitive storylines and production, you will go wherever the crowd goes. Your choice, but to me that is all flash and no substance.
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EPT
