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SC2 Power Rank - August 2013 - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
375 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 19 Next All
Kraidio
Profile Joined May 2011
China133 Posts
August 09 2013 02:53 GMT
#201
The Teamliquid writing staff seems to have an obnoxious obsession with Taeja's performance almost a year ago. It seems like every time they write about Taeja they have to bring up the fact that, yes, at one point a Liquid player was really good.
A man does what he must — in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers, and pressures — and that is the basis of all human morality.
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
August 09 2013 03:06 GMT
#202
On August 09 2013 11:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 10:54 saltywet wrote:
Your only claim for Innovation not being #1 is that he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.



You Innovation lovers are ridiculous. Seriously the bias is literally making me disgusted.

My claim for isn't for Innovation not being #1 because he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.

My claim is for Maru being #1 because he smashed Innovation who was the #1.

When you beat the best, you become the best. Look up the definition of the word "best".

Doesn't that make sense? This isn't about how everyone stacks up to our God Innovation who must play absolutely terribly and lose everything or he keeps the #1... it is about how each StarCraft 2 player plays in relation to each other. When you present it as "this is why Maru deserves it" rather than "this is why Innovation doesn't deserve it" the argument becomes much stronger. Because you've removed the bias. Without the bias you realize that wins in Proleague and a WCG qualifier pale in comparison to someone dominating the consensus #1 4-0 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world. Maru deserves the recognition, denying it is a slap in his face. Plenty of people did well in Proleague and the WCG qualifier in July, but only one swept the consensus #1 in a best of seven series 4-0.

And it isn't like the rest of Maru's month was terrible, he played extremely well in WCS. Take another look here at the July stats: Maru is 6-2 (75%) in matches 15-8 (65%) in games. Innovation is 17-4 (80%) in matches and 29-12 (70%) in games.

This is average Aligulac rating of Maru's opponents from July: 1603

This is average Aligulac rating of Innovation's opponents from July: 1429

So Innovation has the higher winrate, but it is against lesser opponents. But the main thing is that Maru proved to be the better player than Innovation in July, by sweeping the consensus #1 in a best of 7 series. Sweeping! It wasn't even close, no game was close!

You can't be #1 when you drop a best of seven 0-4 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world to someone you're supposed to beat. This doesn't mean that Innovation is bad, it doesn't mean he can't retake #1, but it means in July, he wasn't the best.

Because Maru was.


On August 09 2013 11:19 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 07:53 blobrus wrote:

Also as far as your Innovation beat Maru, he's better argument: Haypro beat Nestea and barely lost to MVP once at an MLG. According to your formula since we're apparently taking nothing into account other than head to head it goes
1. MVP
2. Haypro
3. Nestea

Would that be what you took away from that MLG?


If you were judging the performance of players by only that MLG, then what you said is correct of course. How else can you view it? If someone unfamiliar with E-Sports looked only at the results from that MLG they would rank Haypro higher than Nestea. And that should be obvious. However, MLG is more difficult to gauge because it is a single day tournament and you don't have time to specifically prepare for each opponent. For this reason I believe it doesn't require as much SC2 skill, and you rely more on endurance. Finally, those were best of 3, not best of 7, and Haypro didn't sweep Nestea.

This Power Rank judges the performance of this month, with some weight given to past performances. Based on the past Innovation should have dominated this month. He did not. He was soundly beaten 4-0. Thus he no longer deserves the #1 spot.

That doesn't mean he can't get it back, or that he is bad. It means that when it mattered in July, Maru was better. And the results show that.


You have Maru bias. Innovation didn't have as much time as Maru to prepare for WCS OSL, he had to prepare for TvZ and TvP matchups on different maps. You are unfamiliar with E-Sports because you don't know the intensity of proleague.

Based on results, Innovation got a 3rd/4th place finish in OSL, while Maru is only a finalist (and not yet a winner), which is only one step ahead of innovation. If Maru won the OSL, he might* have a claim for #1, but too bad the PR for this month comes out just a day before the finals, eh? Next month, without proleague to prepare for and the WCS grand finals coming up, we will see how Innovation, Rain and Maru really does.
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
August 09 2013 03:11 GMT
#203
I don't understand bomber's description tbh. Taking down "overrated" players First, Innovation and Flash (innovation is #1 on your ranking, First is top 10 and had an awesome season overall, flash a worthy mention) before losing as expected to a more solid Rain (who is ranked lower than innovation).
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-09 03:25:50
August 09 2013 03:24 GMT
#204
On August 09 2013 11:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 10:54 saltywet wrote:
Your only claim for Innovation not being #1 is that he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.


+ Show Spoiler +

You Innovation lovers are ridiculous. Seriously the bias is literally making me disgusted.

My claim for isn't for Innovation not being #1 because he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.

My claim is for Maru being #1 because he smashed Innovation who was the #1.

When you beat the best, you become the best. Look up the definition of the word "best".

Doesn't that make sense? This isn't about how everyone stacks up to our God Innovation who must play absolutely terribly and lose everything or he keeps the #1... it is about how each StarCraft 2 player plays in relation to each other. When you present it as "this is why Maru deserves it" rather than "this is why Innovation doesn't deserve it" the argument becomes much stronger. Because you've removed the bias. Without the bias you realize that wins in Proleague and a WCG qualifier pale in comparison to someone dominating the consensus #1 4-0 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world. Maru deserves the recognition, denying it is a slap in his face. Plenty of people did well in Proleague and the WCG qualifier in July, but only one swept the consensus #1 in a best of seven series 4-0.

And it isn't like the rest of Maru's month was terrible, he played extremely well in WCS. Take another look here at the July stats: Maru is 6-2 (75%) in matches 15-8 (65%) in games. Innovation is 17-4 (80%) in matches and 29-12 (70%) in games.

This is average Aligulac rating of Maru's opponents from July: 1603

This is average Aligulac rating of Innovation's opponents from July: 1429

So Innovation has the higher winrate, but it is against lesser opponents. But the main thing is that Maru proved to be the better player than Innovation in July, by sweeping the consensus #1 in a best of 7 series. Sweeping! It wasn't even close, no game was close!

You can't be #1 when you drop a best of seven 0-4 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world to someone you're supposed to beat. This doesn't mean that Innovation is bad, it doesn't mean he can't retake #1, but it means in July, he wasn't the best.

Because Maru was
.

Have you not realized that PR is never about the logic of A > B so A ranked higher than B? Because it's retarded. Losira must have been #1 cuz he 2-0'd Maru. Hows about that?

Funny you talks about opponents' quality:
Maru: soO, sOs, EffOrt, SN, Trap, Losira, Symbol.
Bogus: Bbyong, Savage, Flying, Bomber, Flash, SoulKey, [insert SPL players]
Maru cheesed the shit out of sOs, Trap & later on Bogus, played a hilariously terrible ZvTer (srsly EffOrt should stop the hydraroach bs), played a lulz series with SN, drawing an similarly allinish Symbol. Now you tell me about opponents' quality.

The question to ask yourself is: what can one player achieve long-term with his play? Thats what PR is about. Maru with 80% of his game being shenanigans because he couldnt play straight-up? Top 4 for 3 consecutive cheeses is good enough for him. Everybody in the LR thread is like, lol this kid! lol cheesee loooool. Now you tell me thats the reaction for a top1 player?
Oh and stop your kindergarten "A beat B so A > B" logic please
Race is Terran
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States382 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-09 03:29:15
August 09 2013 03:28 GMT
#205
Innovation lost to BeST in Neo Planet S (Proxy 10/10 stalker rush) about a month ago

edit: heres the game



July 17th, 2013 in an OFFLINE match
Race is Terran
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States382 Posts
August 09 2013 03:31 GMT
#206
Yes, he lost 0-4 to Maru. But besides that hiccup, Innovation probably had one of the most dominant months we've ever seen from a single player since the TaeJa of Summer '12. He led his team to a Proleague championship and 4-0'd his Zerg rival, Soulkey, considered by most to be Korea's best Zerg at the moment.

But did you also know that Innovation qualified for IEM Shanghai (which he declined so he could go win Proleague instead) and also advanced to the Ro8 in the WCG KR qualifiers?

Not only does Innovation TvZ continue to look mostly unstoppable, he actually has not lost an offline macro TvP in fourth months. Going into the WCS Season 2 Finals, Innovation will be the strong favorite, and he'll have a chance to avenge himself against Maru and Bomber to prove that you only get lucky once.

I am going to call bullshit on this sentence because he lost to Best in a proleague match on Neo Planet S in July 17th (which I presume is considered an offline match).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVPu4OrH_y0
Race is Terran
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States382 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-09 03:32:48
August 09 2013 03:32 GMT
#207
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVPu4OrH_y0

Inovation lost to Best in a TvP played on July 17th 2013


edit: LOL sorry for my triple post, I thought I was just editing my original post
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
August 09 2013 03:36 GMT
#208
On August 09 2013 12:31 Race is Terran wrote:
Yes, he lost 0-4 to Maru. But besides that hiccup, Innovation probably had one of the most dominant months we've ever seen from a single player since the TaeJa of Summer '12. He led his team to a Proleague championship and 4-0'd his Zerg rival, Soulkey, considered by most to be Korea's best Zerg at the moment.

But did you also know that Innovation qualified for IEM Shanghai (which he declined so he could go win Proleague instead) and also advanced to the Ro8 in the WCG KR qualifiers?

Not only does Innovation TvZ continue to look mostly unstoppable, he actually has not lost an offline macro TvP in fourth months. Going into the WCS Season 2 Finals, Innovation will be the strong favorite, and he'll have a chance to avenge himself against Maru and Bomber to prove that you only get lucky once.

I am going to call bullshit on this sentence because he lost to Best in a proleague match on Neo Planet S in July 17th (which I presume is considered an offline match).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVPu4OrH_y0

As far as I can recall, Best did some kind of shenanigans that put Innovation behind early. So I guess that wasn't counted as a macro TvP.
SAFenix
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada439 Posts
August 09 2013 03:38 GMT
#209
And lol wtf that game with Rain vs hyvaa in their first meeting in tie-breakers... I heard about it on the live report thread but watching it now... WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Did he fall asleep?
mYi.Rain | SKT1.soO
blastyblast21
Profile Joined January 2013
United States61 Posts
August 09 2013 03:44 GMT
#210
i feel that most of this power rank is dumb soulkey is higher then maru?!?!?!?! also innovation was knocked out by maru and has not won any tournaments recently I think this power rank is kinda bad, whoever has done this is kinda bad just sayin. I feel this is just who he likes not who he is actually performing well in the month of august.
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
August 09 2013 04:13 GMT
#211
On August 09 2013 11:19 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 07:53 blobrus wrote:

Also as far as your Innovation beat Maru, he's better argument: Haypro beat Nestea and barely lost to MVP once at an MLG. According to your formula since we're apparently taking nothing into account other than head to head it goes
1. MVP
2. Haypro
3. Nestea

Would that be what you took away from that MLG?


If you were judging the performance of players by only that MLG, then what you said is correct of course. How else can you view it? If someone unfamiliar with E-Sports looked only at the results from that MLG they would rank Haypro higher than Nestea. And that should be obvious. However, MLG is more difficult to gauge because it is a single day tournament and you don't have time to specifically prepare for each opponent. For this reason I believe it doesn't require as much SC2 skill, and you rely more on endurance. Finally, those were best of 3, not best of 7, and Haypro didn't sweep Nestea.

This Power Rank judges the performance of this month, with some weight given to past performances. Based on the past Innovation should have dominated this month. He did not. He was soundly beaten 4-0. Thus he no longer deserves the #1 spot.

That doesn't mean he can't get it back, or that he is bad. It means that when it mattered in July, Maru was better. And the results show that.


Wow, you've really started a war. Whilst I understand your point, I find it difficult to accept, just like most people here.

Before you should go on further, why not you come up with your own PR?

This is not a diversionary challenge. The point here is that PR is not about A vs B, or in this case, Maru v Inno. It's about A v B v C v D.... basically all the top pros in SC2. But let's make it simple and limit it to the current Top 10 this month, shall we?

You are saying that Maru > Inno. That is true. The rest are saying that Inno > 8 players in the Top 10, whilst Maru probably only > 5. And they say this not because everyone in the Top 10 has played before, but based on previous meetings in previous months and their observation on everyone's play. Whilst this is not really objective, it is the best data they can rely on, without hypothesising in vacuum.

So yes, Maru beat Inno. But most evidence point to the fact that Inno will likely beat the shit outta the rest of the Top 10, whilst Maru might struggle against half of them them, even based on this month's form. Inno has won against SK and Rain not once but more than once in the same month, though losing against Bomber (in arguably a dead rubber). Maru has yet to play against 3 of them. How can we say that Maru is better than SK, Rain and Bomber as well? Just because he beat Inno once?

Seriously, this ain't about Maru v Inno. Once you try to pit EVERYONE against EVERYONE, you will understand how difficult it is to come up with a PR rank. And what's very clear is that your "A beats B so A is better than B" formula will go nowhere in coming up with a definitive PR (Inno > Rain > Bomber > Inno: figure that one out).
gg no re thx
painkilla
Profile Joined June 2013
United States695 Posts
August 09 2013 04:18 GMT
#212
On August 09 2013 12:24 Arceus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 11:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
On August 09 2013 10:54 saltywet wrote:
Your only claim for Innovation not being #1 is that he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.


+ Show Spoiler +

You Innovation lovers are ridiculous. Seriously the bias is literally making me disgusted.

My claim for isn't for Innovation not being #1 because he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.

My claim is for Maru being #1 because he smashed Innovation who was the #1.

When you beat the best, you become the best. Look up the definition of the word "best".

Doesn't that make sense? This isn't about how everyone stacks up to our God Innovation who must play absolutely terribly and lose everything or he keeps the #1... it is about how each StarCraft 2 player plays in relation to each other. When you present it as "this is why Maru deserves it" rather than "this is why Innovation doesn't deserve it" the argument becomes much stronger. Because you've removed the bias. Without the bias you realize that wins in Proleague and a WCG qualifier pale in comparison to someone dominating the consensus #1 4-0 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world. Maru deserves the recognition, denying it is a slap in his face. Plenty of people did well in Proleague and the WCG qualifier in July, but only one swept the consensus #1 in a best of seven series 4-0.

And it isn't like the rest of Maru's month was terrible, he played extremely well in WCS. Take another look here at the July stats: Maru is 6-2 (75%) in matches 15-8 (65%) in games. Innovation is 17-4 (80%) in matches and 29-12 (70%) in games.

This is average Aligulac rating of Maru's opponents from July: 1603

This is average Aligulac rating of Innovation's opponents from July: 1429

So Innovation has the higher winrate, but it is against lesser opponents. But the main thing is that Maru proved to be the better player than Innovation in July, by sweeping the consensus #1 in a best of 7 series. Sweeping! It wasn't even close, no game was close!

You can't be #1 when you drop a best of seven 0-4 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world to someone you're supposed to beat. This doesn't mean that Innovation is bad, it doesn't mean he can't retake #1, but it means in July, he wasn't the best.

Because Maru was
.

Have you not realized that PR is never about the logic of A > B so A ranked higher than B? Because it's retarded. Losira must have been #1 cuz he 2-0'd Maru. Hows about that?

Funny you talks about opponents' quality:
Maru: soO, sOs, EffOrt, SN, Trap, Losira, Symbol.
Bogus: Bbyong, Savage, Flying, Bomber, Flash, SoulKey, [insert SPL players]
Maru cheesed the shit out of sOs, Trap & later on Bogus, played a hilariously terrible ZvTer (srsly EffOrt should stop the hydraroach bs), played a lulz series with SN, drawing an similarly allinish Symbol. Now you tell me about opponents' quality.

The question to ask yourself is: what can one player achieve long-term with his play? Thats what PR is about. Maru with 80% of his game being shenanigans because he couldnt play straight-up? Top 4 for 3 consecutive cheeses is good enough for him. Everybody in the LR thread is like, lol this kid! lol cheesee loooool. Now you tell me thats the reaction for a top1 player?
Oh and stop your kindergarten "A beat B so A > B" logic please


"Lol Maru cheese lol" is everybody reaction toward Maru? Sounds like butthurt Kespa fanboys mostly. Maru played the player and won. If anybody can play like that and beat Innovation, they would've done it. And Maru topped the KR ladder recently so don't even try to imply that he is just some cheesy noob, you're making yourself look bad.
And what is so impressive about Bbyoung, Savage, Flying and Flash ? Are they better than Maru's opponents by definition? Innovation also lost to Bomber. Beating SK is impressive but SK also lost to SN, a player you seem to have a very low opinion on. So no, opponents quality of Maru is probably better, considering Innovation is among them.
Supernova | TY | Polt | Innovation | forGG | Lucifron | Happy
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
August 09 2013 04:21 GMT
#213
Will we ever see a foreigner in PR? Based on WCS EU, seems possible! Though it would be also great if MMA or MC takes it and enters PR! esF dragons fighting!
gg no re thx
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
August 09 2013 04:23 GMT
#214
No Jaedong, this rank is invalid
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1310 Posts
August 09 2013 04:25 GMT
#215
On August 09 2013 07:41 0317`Strike- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 07:13 vesicular wrote:
On August 09 2013 06:54 0317`Strike- wrote:
"to no one's surprise, he's up at #1 again." INnoVation number one? Come on. He got knocked out of the quarterfinals in one of the most pitiful displays. It wasn't even close! And against a huge underdog, too. It was no upset, it was just showing that he could be targeted and prepared for like any other player. TvT isn't even Maru's best matchup. Clearly, INnoVation has some serious weaknesses. Maru straight up demolished him.

Also, INnoVation won a single game in the finals, and it wasn't even ace. By that standard you could say that Mini/Trap/Classic "led their team to victory"... come on. Power Rank, not Hype Rank, please.



The only one hyping anything is you (in this case anti-hype). Innovation won 2 ace matches vs SKT. He was 6-1 in the playoffs. Of course he led his team to the championship.

In Code S he 2-0'd both Flash and Bbyong, and 3-0'd Soulkey. He qualified for IEM and hasn't lost a map yet in WCG. Other than one shit match, how can you not say he's not #1?



Almost every one of the results you reference were accomplished before the JUNE power rank (Code S, the 2 ace matches vs. SKT, and every game except one in playoffs), when, like you say, INnoVation was clearly #1. Qualifying for IEM, rofl, any KeSPA player could've qualified. Life actually won the thing.


Everything I quoted was in July after the last power ranks came out. Get your facts straight.
STX Fighting!
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
August 09 2013 04:25 GMT
#216
On August 09 2013 13:18 painkilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 12:24 Arceus wrote:
On August 09 2013 11:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
On August 09 2013 10:54 saltywet wrote:
Your only claim for Innovation not being #1 is that he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.


+ Show Spoiler +

You Innovation lovers are ridiculous. Seriously the bias is literally making me disgusted.

My claim for isn't for Innovation not being #1 because he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.

My claim is for Maru being #1 because he smashed Innovation who was the #1.

When you beat the best, you become the best. Look up the definition of the word "best".

Doesn't that make sense? This isn't about how everyone stacks up to our God Innovation who must play absolutely terribly and lose everything or he keeps the #1... it is about how each StarCraft 2 player plays in relation to each other. When you present it as "this is why Maru deserves it" rather than "this is why Innovation doesn't deserve it" the argument becomes much stronger. Because you've removed the bias. Without the bias you realize that wins in Proleague and a WCG qualifier pale in comparison to someone dominating the consensus #1 4-0 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world. Maru deserves the recognition, denying it is a slap in his face. Plenty of people did well in Proleague and the WCG qualifier in July, but only one swept the consensus #1 in a best of seven series 4-0.

And it isn't like the rest of Maru's month was terrible, he played extremely well in WCS. Take another look here at the July stats: Maru is 6-2 (75%) in matches 15-8 (65%) in games. Innovation is 17-4 (80%) in matches and 29-12 (70%) in games.

This is average Aligulac rating of Maru's opponents from July: 1603

This is average Aligulac rating of Innovation's opponents from July: 1429

So Innovation has the higher winrate, but it is against lesser opponents. But the main thing is that Maru proved to be the better player than Innovation in July, by sweeping the consensus #1 in a best of 7 series. Sweeping! It wasn't even close, no game was close!

You can't be #1 when you drop a best of seven 0-4 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world to someone you're supposed to beat. This doesn't mean that Innovation is bad, it doesn't mean he can't retake #1, but it means in July, he wasn't the best.

Because Maru was
.

Have you not realized that PR is never about the logic of A > B so A ranked higher than B? Because it's retarded. Losira must have been #1 cuz he 2-0'd Maru. Hows about that?

Funny you talks about opponents' quality:
Maru: soO, sOs, EffOrt, SN, Trap, Losira, Symbol.
Bogus: Bbyong, Savage, Flying, Bomber, Flash, SoulKey, [insert SPL players]
Maru cheesed the shit out of sOs, Trap & later on Bogus, played a hilariously terrible ZvTer (srsly EffOrt should stop the hydraroach bs), played a lulz series with SN, drawing an similarly allinish Symbol. Now you tell me about opponents' quality.

The question to ask yourself is: what can one player achieve long-term with his play? Thats what PR is about. Maru with 80% of his game being shenanigans because he couldnt play straight-up? Top 4 for 3 consecutive cheeses is good enough for him. Everybody in the LR thread is like, lol this kid! lol cheesee loooool. Now you tell me thats the reaction for a top1 player?
Oh and stop your kindergarten "A beat B so A > B" logic please


"Lol Maru cheese lol" is everybody reaction toward Maru? Sounds like butthurt Kespa fanboys mostly. Maru played the player and won. If anybody can play like that and beat Innovation, they would've done it. And Maru topped the KR ladder recently so don't even try to imply that he is just some cheesy noob, you're making yourself look bad.
And what is so impressive about Bbyoung, Savage, Flying and Flash ? Are they better than Maru's opponents by definition? Innovation also lost to Bomber. Beating SK is impressive but SK also lost to SN, a player you seem to have a very low opinion on. So no, opponents quality of Maru is probably better, considering Innovation is among them.


Where all other Zergs have fallen, SK is holding the fort like Gandalf holding up against the Balrog. Based on the current meta, it's an amazing feat. Also, if you do watch his games against Inno (not sure about those against SN, didn't watch those), he did put up a great fight despite not taking any game.

So yeah, in my view, PR should also take in consideration of the current state of the game (meta, map imbalances, patches, etc.).

SK fighting!
gg no re thx
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-09 04:27:39
August 09 2013 04:27 GMT
#217
On August 09 2013 13:18 painkilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 12:24 Arceus wrote:
On August 09 2013 11:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
On August 09 2013 10:54 saltywet wrote:
Your only claim for Innovation not being #1 is that he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.


+ Show Spoiler +

You Innovation lovers are ridiculous. Seriously the bias is literally making me disgusted.

My claim for isn't for Innovation not being #1 because he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.

My claim is for Maru being #1 because he smashed Innovation who was the #1.

When you beat the best, you become the best. Look up the definition of the word "best".

Doesn't that make sense? This isn't about how everyone stacks up to our God Innovation who must play absolutely terribly and lose everything or he keeps the #1... it is about how each StarCraft 2 player plays in relation to each other. When you present it as "this is why Maru deserves it" rather than "this is why Innovation doesn't deserve it" the argument becomes much stronger. Because you've removed the bias. Without the bias you realize that wins in Proleague and a WCG qualifier pale in comparison to someone dominating the consensus #1 4-0 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world. Maru deserves the recognition, denying it is a slap in his face. Plenty of people did well in Proleague and the WCG qualifier in July, but only one swept the consensus #1 in a best of seven series 4-0.

And it isn't like the rest of Maru's month was terrible, he played extremely well in WCS. Take another look here at the July stats: Maru is 6-2 (75%) in matches 15-8 (65%) in games. Innovation is 17-4 (80%) in matches and 29-12 (70%) in games.

This is average Aligulac rating of Maru's opponents from July: 1603

This is average Aligulac rating of Innovation's opponents from July: 1429

So Innovation has the higher winrate, but it is against lesser opponents. But the main thing is that Maru proved to be the better player than Innovation in July, by sweeping the consensus #1 in a best of 7 series. Sweeping! It wasn't even close, no game was close!

You can't be #1 when you drop a best of seven 0-4 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world to someone you're supposed to beat. This doesn't mean that Innovation is bad, it doesn't mean he can't retake #1, but it means in July, he wasn't the best.

Because Maru was
.

Have you not realized that PR is never about the logic of A > B so A ranked higher than B? Because it's retarded. Losira must have been #1 cuz he 2-0'd Maru. Hows about that?

Funny you talks about opponents' quality:
Maru: soO, sOs, EffOrt, SN, Trap, Losira, Symbol.
Bogus: Bbyong, Savage, Flying, Bomber, Flash, SoulKey, [insert SPL players]
Maru cheesed the shit out of sOs, Trap & later on Bogus, played a hilariously terrible ZvTer (srsly EffOrt should stop the hydraroach bs), played a lulz series with SN, drawing an similarly allinish Symbol. Now you tell me about opponents' quality.

The question to ask yourself is: what can one player achieve long-term with his play? Thats what PR is about. Maru with 80% of his game being shenanigans because he couldnt play straight-up? Top 4 for 3 consecutive cheeses is good enough for him. Everybody in the LR thread is like, lol this kid! lol cheesee loooool. Now you tell me thats the reaction for a top1 player?
Oh and stop your kindergarten "A beat B so A > B" logic please


"Lol Maru cheese lol" is everybody reaction toward Maru? Sounds like butthurt Kespa fanboys mostly.


He is one of the biggest kespa fanboys on this site, I wouldn't pay much attention to that rubbish above, it's clearly wrong.
Was definitely a quality set of opponents Maru went through.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
August 09 2013 04:29 GMT
#218
so close Revival T.T .
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-09 04:31:07
August 09 2013 04:30 GMT
#219
On August 09 2013 13:25 vesicular wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 07:41 0317`Strike- wrote:
On August 09 2013 07:13 vesicular wrote:
On August 09 2013 06:54 0317`Strike- wrote:
"to no one's surprise, he's up at #1 again." INnoVation number one? Come on. He got knocked out of the quarterfinals in one of the most pitiful displays. It wasn't even close! And against a huge underdog, too. It was no upset, it was just showing that he could be targeted and prepared for like any other player. TvT isn't even Maru's best matchup. Clearly, INnoVation has some serious weaknesses. Maru straight up demolished him.

Also, INnoVation won a single game in the finals, and it wasn't even ace. By that standard you could say that Mini/Trap/Classic "led their team to victory"... come on. Power Rank, not Hype Rank, please.



The only one hyping anything is you (in this case anti-hype). Innovation won 2 ace matches vs SKT. He was 6-1 in the playoffs. Of course he led his team to the championship.

In Code S he 2-0'd both Flash and Bbyong, and 3-0'd Soulkey. He qualified for IEM and hasn't lost a map yet in WCG. Other than one shit match, how can you not say he's not #1?



Almost every one of the results you reference were accomplished before the JUNE power rank (Code S, the 2 ace matches vs. SKT, and every game except one in playoffs), when, like you say, INnoVation was clearly #1. Qualifying for IEM, rofl, any KeSPA player could've qualified. Life actually won the thing.


Everything I quoted was in July after the last power ranks came out. Get your facts straight.


What people fail to notice is Inno's consistency - RO4 in WCS, RO8 in WCG Qualifiers (Maru is out) and leading STX to victory in SPL.

Sure, Maru is not in SPL, but that's how PR is - more opportunities, more data, more cookie points.

I hate to speculate, but based on historical data, does anyone honestly believe Maru can lead STX to victory like Inno has? But anyway, the most important data is that Inno has done it, Maru hasn't. That's a fact as much as Maru beating Inno once.
gg no re thx
painkilla
Profile Joined June 2013
United States695 Posts
August 09 2013 04:39 GMT
#220
On August 09 2013 13:25 RKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 13:18 painkilla wrote:
On August 09 2013 12:24 Arceus wrote:
On August 09 2013 11:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
On August 09 2013 10:54 saltywet wrote:
Your only claim for Innovation not being #1 is that he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.


+ Show Spoiler +

You Innovation lovers are ridiculous. Seriously the bias is literally making me disgusted.

My claim for isn't for Innovation not being #1 because he lost a series 0-4 to Maru.

My claim is for Maru being #1 because he smashed Innovation who was the #1.

When you beat the best, you become the best. Look up the definition of the word "best".

Doesn't that make sense? This isn't about how everyone stacks up to our God Innovation who must play absolutely terribly and lose everything or he keeps the #1... it is about how each StarCraft 2 player plays in relation to each other. When you present it as "this is why Maru deserves it" rather than "this is why Innovation doesn't deserve it" the argument becomes much stronger. Because you've removed the bias. Without the bias you realize that wins in Proleague and a WCG qualifier pale in comparison to someone dominating the consensus #1 4-0 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world. Maru deserves the recognition, denying it is a slap in his face. Plenty of people did well in Proleague and the WCG qualifier in July, but only one swept the consensus #1 in a best of seven series 4-0.

And it isn't like the rest of Maru's month was terrible, he played extremely well in WCS. Take another look here at the July stats: Maru is 6-2 (75%) in matches 15-8 (65%) in games. Innovation is 17-4 (80%) in matches and 29-12 (70%) in games.

This is average Aligulac rating of Maru's opponents from July: 1603

This is average Aligulac rating of Innovation's opponents from July: 1429

So Innovation has the higher winrate, but it is against lesser opponents. But the main thing is that Maru proved to be the better player than Innovation in July, by sweeping the consensus #1 in a best of 7 series. Sweeping! It wasn't even close, no game was close!

You can't be #1 when you drop a best of seven 0-4 in the Ro4 of the best individual league in the world to someone you're supposed to beat. This doesn't mean that Innovation is bad, it doesn't mean he can't retake #1, but it means in July, he wasn't the best.

Because Maru was
.

Have you not realized that PR is never about the logic of A > B so A ranked higher than B? Because it's retarded. Losira must have been #1 cuz he 2-0'd Maru. Hows about that?

Funny you talks about opponents' quality:
Maru: soO, sOs, EffOrt, SN, Trap, Losira, Symbol.
Bogus: Bbyong, Savage, Flying, Bomber, Flash, SoulKey, [insert SPL players]
Maru cheesed the shit out of sOs, Trap & later on Bogus, played a hilariously terrible ZvTer (srsly EffOrt should stop the hydraroach bs), played a lulz series with SN, drawing an similarly allinish Symbol. Now you tell me about opponents' quality.

The question to ask yourself is: what can one player achieve long-term with his play? Thats what PR is about. Maru with 80% of his game being shenanigans because he couldnt play straight-up? Top 4 for 3 consecutive cheeses is good enough for him. Everybody in the LR thread is like, lol this kid! lol cheesee loooool. Now you tell me thats the reaction for a top1 player?
Oh and stop your kindergarten "A beat B so A > B" logic please


"Lol Maru cheese lol" is everybody reaction toward Maru? Sounds like butthurt Kespa fanboys mostly. Maru played the player and won. If anybody can play like that and beat Innovation, they would've done it. And Maru topped the KR ladder recently so don't even try to imply that he is just some cheesy noob, you're making yourself look bad.
And what is so impressive about Bbyoung, Savage, Flying and Flash ? Are they better than Maru's opponents by definition? Innovation also lost to Bomber. Beating SK is impressive but SK also lost to SN, a player you seem to have a very low opinion on. So no, opponents quality of Maru is probably better, considering Innovation is among them.


Where all other Zergs have fallen, SK is holding the fort like Gandalf holding up against the Balrog. Based on the current meta, it's an amazing feat. Also, if you do watch his games against Inno (not sure about those against SN, didn't watch those), he did put up a great fight despite not taking any game.

So yeah, in my view, PR should also take in consideration of the current state of the game (meta, map imbalances, patches, etc.).

SK fighting!


Definitely. In fact, as much as I like SN, him beating SK indicates that we might have a balance/meta problem.
Supernova | TY | Polt | Innovation | forGG | Lucifron | Happy
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