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i personally disliked wcs very much. i thought it would have been better to have korea as the hub of starcraft, much like europe is with soccer/football, USA with basketball, and smaller leagues in EU/NA that can be used as a ladder/opportunity for up and coming players to go pro in korea. i may be very naive in this statement; i've never seen any sports spreading their talents intentionally when its already centralized in one location and great talents flocking to it. proleague can grow with more teams if the player base is that big enough, bigger and longer gsl/osl to accommodate larger player base.
then again starcraft isnt what it used to be
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On August 09 2013 07:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 07:38 dizzy101 wrote:
So many people blaming Blizz and WCS.
But without the WCS the scene would be even more dead than it already is.
It's the game, people. It's the game. Don't try to blame the lack of popularity on WCS or anything Blizz did. Its weird, because MLG basically just said, "We don't want the viewers from SC2 to watch our event, they are not worth our time". Its not that they don't' like the game. Its that we don't make it worth it.
The Rahm Emmanuels of TL. Never let a good opportunity for balance/design whine go to waste.
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Newsflash to TL kids: esports isn't profitable. There's a reason Dota 2 and LoL esports are paid for in their entirety by the game developers. Without Blizzard propping up WCS, we would have nothing.
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On August 09 2013 07:47 GwSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 07:43 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:25 Noocta wrote:On August 09 2013 07:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Is Dota 2 fun to watch/play?
I haven't tried it out, but I want something to fall back on just in case.
Wasn't a big fan of LoL at all. No denying, no penalty for death, huge mana pools for every champ, and free blink dagger at game start. You're asking that right when the Superbowl of dota is on air ? What are you waiting, just go watch it >< it's pretty boring to watch IMHO. The game is just stupid easy to play so it has that advantage over starcraft to attract new viewers. Unfortunately for starcraft, it's not exactly a game someone can just start playing. There are serious growing pains with it, despite the fact sc2 is infinitely easier than brood war. None of my RL friends play sc2 because there is too many things to do and it becomes chore to them vs a fun game. also dota 5.54 > *. I never got why people say this, SC2 isn't really hard at all to just pick up and quickly get to at least silver/gold league so that you have enough understanding to enjoy watching games. Even a lot of bronze games could probably get you to that point of understanding.
it's not necessarily hard to learn, but undeniably hard for someone who has zero experience with RTS games previously. It was easy for me because i grew up playing brood war and wc3 religiously, but for someone with zero knowledge and zero mechanical skill, i'm not sure how you can say it wouldn't be hard for them to learn.
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89 Posts
On August 09 2013 07:53 jinorazi wrote:
i personally disliked wcs very much. i thought it would have been better to have korea as the hub of starcraft, much like europe is with soccer/football, USA with basketball, and smaller leagues in EU/NA that can be used as a ladder/opportunity for up and coming players to go pro in korea. i may be very naive in this statement; i've never seen any sports spreading their talents intentionally when its already centralized in one location and great talents flocking to it. proleague can grow with more teams if the player base is that big enough, bigger and longer gsl/osl to accommodate larger player base.
then again starcraft isnt what it used to be
Agree. I did not watch BW, but I do not understand why Bliz forced SC2 down KESPA throat. The OSL and Proleague were still having bigger draws than SC2 now. It would be like telling the NFL or a Euro football league you have to switch to Rugby.
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Sundance has since issued this tweet, which is enough to appease me. It's Sundance. I've only experienced a progressive building of trust with this person. I'm inclined to question.. and I have, but this appeases me:
And with that, I'm over it ^_~
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On August 09 2013 07:57 dutchfriese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 07:47 GwSC wrote:On August 09 2013 07:43 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:25 Noocta wrote:On August 09 2013 07:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Is Dota 2 fun to watch/play?
I haven't tried it out, but I want something to fall back on just in case.
Wasn't a big fan of LoL at all. No denying, no penalty for death, huge mana pools for every champ, and free blink dagger at game start. You're asking that right when the Superbowl of dota is on air ? What are you waiting, just go watch it >< it's pretty boring to watch IMHO. The game is just stupid easy to play so it has that advantage over starcraft to attract new viewers. Unfortunately for starcraft, it's not exactly a game someone can just start playing. There are serious growing pains with it, despite the fact sc2 is infinitely easier than brood war. None of my RL friends play sc2 because there is too many things to do and it becomes chore to them vs a fun game. also dota 5.54 > *. I never got why people say this, SC2 isn't really hard at all to just pick up and quickly get to at least silver/gold league so that you have enough understanding to enjoy watching games. Even a lot of bronze games could probably get you to that point of understanding. it's not necessarily hard to learn, but undeniably hard for someone who has zero experience with RTS games previously. It was easy for me because i grew up playing brood war and wc3 religiously, but for someone with zero knowledge and zero mechanical skill, i'm not sure how you can say it wouldn't be hard for them to learn.
dota isn't any easier for someone completely new to the genre either... and in pro games have a ton of dynamics you'll virtually never see in a casual pub game. Basically, anyone claiming SC2 is more difficult than Dota2 is clueless.
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On August 09 2013 08:02 Lumi wrote:Sundance has since issued this tweet, which is enough to appease me. It's Sundance. I've only experienced a progressive building of trust with this person. I'm inclined to question.. and I have, but this appeases me: + Show Spoiler +And with that, I'm over it ^_~
I hate reading into Sundance tweets... (seriously wtf)
Doubt he's referring to SC2 and MLG together but SC2 on it's own.
On August 09 2013 08:02 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 07:57 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:47 GwSC wrote:On August 09 2013 07:43 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:25 Noocta wrote:On August 09 2013 07:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Is Dota 2 fun to watch/play?
I haven't tried it out, but I want something to fall back on just in case.
Wasn't a big fan of LoL at all. No denying, no penalty for death, huge mana pools for every champ, and free blink dagger at game start. You're asking that right when the Superbowl of dota is on air ? What are you waiting, just go watch it >< it's pretty boring to watch IMHO. The game is just stupid easy to play so it has that advantage over starcraft to attract new viewers. Unfortunately for starcraft, it's not exactly a game someone can just start playing. There are serious growing pains with it, despite the fact sc2 is infinitely easier than brood war. None of my RL friends play sc2 because there is too many things to do and it becomes chore to them vs a fun game. also dota 5.54 > *. I never got why people say this, SC2 isn't really hard at all to just pick up and quickly get to at least silver/gold league so that you have enough understanding to enjoy watching games. Even a lot of bronze games could probably get you to that point of understanding. it's not necessarily hard to learn, but undeniably hard for someone who has zero experience with RTS games previously. It was easy for me because i grew up playing brood war and wc3 religiously, but for someone with zero knowledge and zero mechanical skill, i'm not sure how you can say it wouldn't be hard for them to learn. dota isn't any easier for someone completely new to the genre either... and in pro games have a ton of dynamics you'll virtually never see in a casual pub game. Basically, anyone claiming SC2 is more difficult than Dota2 is clueless.
In Dota you have one guy to control, now add in making other guys, building buildings to produce different guys..
Yeah you'll understand why dota and other mobas are easier for a beginners.
Items and different comps come way down the road when you feel confident.
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On August 09 2013 08:02 Lumi wrote:Sundance has since issued this tweet, which is enough to appease me. It's Sundance. I've only experienced a progressive building of trust with this person. I'm inclined to question.. and I have, but this appeases me: And with that, I'm over it ^_~
And yet he still has his previous tweets out there. I don't even understand what the point is then.
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the amount of "its" instead of o "it's" in this thread is amusing.
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On August 09 2013 08:02 Lumi wrote:Sundance has since issued this tweet, which is enough to appease me. It's Sundance. I've only experienced a progressive building of trust with this person. I'm inclined to question.. and I have, but this appeases me: And with that, I'm over it ^_~
Thank god, he gets it.
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On August 09 2013 08:04 Tobblish wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:02 Lumi wrote:Sundance has since issued this tweet, which is enough to appease me. It's Sundance. I've only experienced a progressive building of trust with this person. I'm inclined to question.. and I have, but this appeases me: + Show Spoiler +And with that, I'm over it ^_~ I hate reading into Sundance tweets... (seriously wtf) Doubt he's referring to SC2 and MLG together but SC2 on it's own. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:02 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 07:57 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:47 GwSC wrote:On August 09 2013 07:43 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:25 Noocta wrote:On August 09 2013 07:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Is Dota 2 fun to watch/play?
I haven't tried it out, but I want something to fall back on just in case.
Wasn't a big fan of LoL at all. No denying, no penalty for death, huge mana pools for every champ, and free blink dagger at game start. You're asking that right when the Superbowl of dota is on air ? What are you waiting, just go watch it >< it's pretty boring to watch IMHO. The game is just stupid easy to play so it has that advantage over starcraft to attract new viewers. Unfortunately for starcraft, it's not exactly a game someone can just start playing. There are serious growing pains with it, despite the fact sc2 is infinitely easier than brood war. None of my RL friends play sc2 because there is too many things to do and it becomes chore to them vs a fun game. also dota 5.54 > *. I never got why people say this, SC2 isn't really hard at all to just pick up and quickly get to at least silver/gold league so that you have enough understanding to enjoy watching games. Even a lot of bronze games could probably get you to that point of understanding. it's not necessarily hard to learn, but undeniably hard for someone who has zero experience with RTS games previously. It was easy for me because i grew up playing brood war and wc3 religiously, but for someone with zero knowledge and zero mechanical skill, i'm not sure how you can say it wouldn't be hard for them to learn. dota isn't any easier for someone completely new to the genre either... and in pro games have a ton of dynamics you'll virtually never see in a casual pub game. Basically, anyone claiming SC2 is more difficult than Dota2 is clueless. In Dota you have one guy to control, now add in making other guys, building buildings to produce different guys.. Yeah you'll understand why dota and other mobas are easier for a beginners. Items and different comps come way down the road when you feel confident.
there's more to dota than controlling your one guy. I was a significantly better SC2 player and relatiively speaking higher ranked, than I am as a dota player. Stop pretending SC2 is this insanely difficult game, it's not
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On August 09 2013 07:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Is Dota 2 fun to watch/play?
I haven't tried it out, but I want something to fall back on just in case.
Wasn't a big fan of LoL at all. No denying, no penalty for death, huge mana pools for every champ, and free blink dagger at game start.
I've been watching TI3 the past few days and the game seems pretty amazing to me. The amount of things there are to learn seems endless. The skills required from players are very different than in RTS games but Dota seems to have a lot more depth to it. It actually has a real metagame to it instead of just being a matter of who multitasks better. I still play SC2 too casually on mid/high masters level but I'm hopping on the Dota train, not because of the e-sports aspect or nothing (although prize pools where the winning team gets over a million bucks seems to be very close to being a legit sport) because I play for fun only, but because so many of my friends already play it and it seems to be fun to watch on top of it.
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On August 09 2013 08:09 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:04 Tobblish wrote:On August 09 2013 08:02 Lumi wrote:Sundance has since issued this tweet, which is enough to appease me. It's Sundance. I've only experienced a progressive building of trust with this person. I'm inclined to question.. and I have, but this appeases me: + Show Spoiler +And with that, I'm over it ^_~ I hate reading into Sundance tweets... (seriously wtf) Doubt he's referring to SC2 and MLG together but SC2 on it's own. On August 09 2013 08:02 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 07:57 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:47 GwSC wrote:On August 09 2013 07:43 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:25 Noocta wrote:On August 09 2013 07:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Is Dota 2 fun to watch/play?
I haven't tried it out, but I want something to fall back on just in case.
Wasn't a big fan of LoL at all. No denying, no penalty for death, huge mana pools for every champ, and free blink dagger at game start. You're asking that right when the Superbowl of dota is on air ? What are you waiting, just go watch it >< it's pretty boring to watch IMHO. The game is just stupid easy to play so it has that advantage over starcraft to attract new viewers. Unfortunately for starcraft, it's not exactly a game someone can just start playing. There are serious growing pains with it, despite the fact sc2 is infinitely easier than brood war. None of my RL friends play sc2 because there is too many things to do and it becomes chore to them vs a fun game. also dota 5.54 > *. I never got why people say this, SC2 isn't really hard at all to just pick up and quickly get to at least silver/gold league so that you have enough understanding to enjoy watching games. Even a lot of bronze games could probably get you to that point of understanding. it's not necessarily hard to learn, but undeniably hard for someone who has zero experience with RTS games previously. It was easy for me because i grew up playing brood war and wc3 religiously, but for someone with zero knowledge and zero mechanical skill, i'm not sure how you can say it wouldn't be hard for them to learn. dota isn't any easier for someone completely new to the genre either... and in pro games have a ton of dynamics you'll virtually never see in a casual pub game. Basically, anyone claiming SC2 is more difficult than Dota2 is clueless. In Dota you have one guy to control, now add in making other guys, building buildings to produce different guys.. Yeah you'll understand why dota and other mobas are easier for a beginners. Items and different comps come way down the road when you feel confident. there's more to dota than controlling your one guy. I was a significantly better SC2 player and relatiively speaking higher ranked, than I am as a dota player. Stop pretending SC2 is this insanely difficult game, it's not
Ofc theres more than that but for a newbie, again, newbie it's much easier to get into just because of that.
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On August 09 2013 08:09 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:04 Tobblish wrote:On August 09 2013 08:02 Lumi wrote:Sundance has since issued this tweet, which is enough to appease me. It's Sundance. I've only experienced a progressive building of trust with this person. I'm inclined to question.. and I have, but this appeases me: + Show Spoiler +And with that, I'm over it ^_~ I hate reading into Sundance tweets... (seriously wtf) Doubt he's referring to SC2 and MLG together but SC2 on it's own. On August 09 2013 08:02 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 07:57 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:47 GwSC wrote:On August 09 2013 07:43 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:25 Noocta wrote:On August 09 2013 07:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Is Dota 2 fun to watch/play?
I haven't tried it out, but I want something to fall back on just in case.
Wasn't a big fan of LoL at all. No denying, no penalty for death, huge mana pools for every champ, and free blink dagger at game start. You're asking that right when the Superbowl of dota is on air ? What are you waiting, just go watch it >< it's pretty boring to watch IMHO. The game is just stupid easy to play so it has that advantage over starcraft to attract new viewers. Unfortunately for starcraft, it's not exactly a game someone can just start playing. There are serious growing pains with it, despite the fact sc2 is infinitely easier than brood war. None of my RL friends play sc2 because there is too many things to do and it becomes chore to them vs a fun game. also dota 5.54 > *. I never got why people say this, SC2 isn't really hard at all to just pick up and quickly get to at least silver/gold league so that you have enough understanding to enjoy watching games. Even a lot of bronze games could probably get you to that point of understanding. it's not necessarily hard to learn, but undeniably hard for someone who has zero experience with RTS games previously. It was easy for me because i grew up playing brood war and wc3 religiously, but for someone with zero knowledge and zero mechanical skill, i'm not sure how you can say it wouldn't be hard for them to learn. dota isn't any easier for someone completely new to the genre either... and in pro games have a ton of dynamics you'll virtually never see in a casual pub game. Basically, anyone claiming SC2 is more difficult than Dota2 is clueless. In Dota you have one guy to control, now add in making other guys, building buildings to produce different guys.. Yeah you'll understand why dota and other mobas are easier for a beginners. Items and different comps come way down the road when you feel confident. there's more to dota than controlling your one guy. I was a significantly better SC2 player and relatiively speaking higher ranked, than I am as a dota player. Stop pretending SC2 is this insanely difficult game, it's not
Or you're just bad at both? the dota2 MMR is broken right now regardless.
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Real talk: SC2 has never come close to being as good as brood war and probably never will. Unless this is acknowledged then the lackluster SC2 reception in Korea will forever be an enigma.
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On August 09 2013 08:12 nGBeast wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:09 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:04 Tobblish wrote:On August 09 2013 08:02 Lumi wrote:Sundance has since issued this tweet, which is enough to appease me. It's Sundance. I've only experienced a progressive building of trust with this person. I'm inclined to question.. and I have, but this appeases me: + Show Spoiler +And with that, I'm over it ^_~ I hate reading into Sundance tweets... (seriously wtf) Doubt he's referring to SC2 and MLG together but SC2 on it's own. On August 09 2013 08:02 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 07:57 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:47 GwSC wrote:On August 09 2013 07:43 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:25 Noocta wrote:On August 09 2013 07:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Is Dota 2 fun to watch/play?
I haven't tried it out, but I want something to fall back on just in case.
Wasn't a big fan of LoL at all. No denying, no penalty for death, huge mana pools for every champ, and free blink dagger at game start. You're asking that right when the Superbowl of dota is on air ? What are you waiting, just go watch it >< it's pretty boring to watch IMHO. The game is just stupid easy to play so it has that advantage over starcraft to attract new viewers. Unfortunately for starcraft, it's not exactly a game someone can just start playing. There are serious growing pains with it, despite the fact sc2 is infinitely easier than brood war. None of my RL friends play sc2 because there is too many things to do and it becomes chore to them vs a fun game. also dota 5.54 > *. I never got why people say this, SC2 isn't really hard at all to just pick up and quickly get to at least silver/gold league so that you have enough understanding to enjoy watching games. Even a lot of bronze games could probably get you to that point of understanding. it's not necessarily hard to learn, but undeniably hard for someone who has zero experience with RTS games previously. It was easy for me because i grew up playing brood war and wc3 religiously, but for someone with zero knowledge and zero mechanical skill, i'm not sure how you can say it wouldn't be hard for them to learn. dota isn't any easier for someone completely new to the genre either... and in pro games have a ton of dynamics you'll virtually never see in a casual pub game. Basically, anyone claiming SC2 is more difficult than Dota2 is clueless. In Dota you have one guy to control, now add in making other guys, building buildings to produce different guys.. Yeah you'll understand why dota and other mobas are easier for a beginners. Items and different comps come way down the road when you feel confident. there's more to dota than controlling your one guy. I was a significantly better SC2 player and relatiively speaking higher ranked, than I am as a dota player. Stop pretending SC2 is this insanely difficult game, it's not Or you're just bad at both? the dota2 MMR is broken right now regardless.
...what's the point of your post?
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On August 09 2013 08:15 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:12 nGBeast wrote:On August 09 2013 08:09 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:04 Tobblish wrote:On August 09 2013 08:02 Lumi wrote:Sundance has since issued this tweet, which is enough to appease me. It's Sundance. I've only experienced a progressive building of trust with this person. I'm inclined to question.. and I have, but this appeases me: + Show Spoiler +And with that, I'm over it ^_~ I hate reading into Sundance tweets... (seriously wtf) Doubt he's referring to SC2 and MLG together but SC2 on it's own. On August 09 2013 08:02 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 07:57 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:47 GwSC wrote:On August 09 2013 07:43 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:25 Noocta wrote:On August 09 2013 07:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Is Dota 2 fun to watch/play?
I haven't tried it out, but I want something to fall back on just in case.
Wasn't a big fan of LoL at all. No denying, no penalty for death, huge mana pools for every champ, and free blink dagger at game start. You're asking that right when the Superbowl of dota is on air ? What are you waiting, just go watch it >< it's pretty boring to watch IMHO. The game is just stupid easy to play so it has that advantage over starcraft to attract new viewers. Unfortunately for starcraft, it's not exactly a game someone can just start playing. There are serious growing pains with it, despite the fact sc2 is infinitely easier than brood war. None of my RL friends play sc2 because there is too many things to do and it becomes chore to them vs a fun game. also dota 5.54 > *. I never got why people say this, SC2 isn't really hard at all to just pick up and quickly get to at least silver/gold league so that you have enough understanding to enjoy watching games. Even a lot of bronze games could probably get you to that point of understanding. it's not necessarily hard to learn, but undeniably hard for someone who has zero experience with RTS games previously. It was easy for me because i grew up playing brood war and wc3 religiously, but for someone with zero knowledge and zero mechanical skill, i'm not sure how you can say it wouldn't be hard for them to learn. dota isn't any easier for someone completely new to the genre either... and in pro games have a ton of dynamics you'll virtually never see in a casual pub game. Basically, anyone claiming SC2 is more difficult than Dota2 is clueless. In Dota you have one guy to control, now add in making other guys, building buildings to produce different guys.. Yeah you'll understand why dota and other mobas are easier for a beginners. Items and different comps come way down the road when you feel confident. there's more to dota than controlling your one guy. I was a significantly better SC2 player and relatiively speaking higher ranked, than I am as a dota player. Stop pretending SC2 is this insanely difficult game, it's not Or you're just bad at both? the dota2 MMR is broken right now regardless. ...what's the point of your post?
To invalidate your previous post by impugning your skill. Argument from authority.
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On August 09 2013 08:15 Cyrak wrote:
Real talk: SC2 has never come close to being as good as brood war and probably never will. Unless this is acknowledged then the lackluster SC2 reception in Korea will forever be an enigma.
I think the 2 hour long 'grilled' interview with Chobra revealed a lot of this stuff to people who bothered to listen. I wasn't so aware of the situation before seeing that interview atleast. It's not even a question whether SC2 is good or becomes better. People in Korea simply aren't excited by it and the genre anymore as much as they are from team games. You can't force a game that not a lot of guys are playing to become a massive e-sport. You can only make a game that is already massive a massive e-sport.
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On August 09 2013 08:02 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 07:57 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:47 GwSC wrote:On August 09 2013 07:43 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:25 Noocta wrote:On August 09 2013 07:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Is Dota 2 fun to watch/play?
I haven't tried it out, but I want something to fall back on just in case.
Wasn't a big fan of LoL at all. No denying, no penalty for death, huge mana pools for every champ, and free blink dagger at game start. You're asking that right when the Superbowl of dota is on air ? What are you waiting, just go watch it >< it's pretty boring to watch IMHO. The game is just stupid easy to play so it has that advantage over starcraft to attract new viewers. Unfortunately for starcraft, it's not exactly a game someone can just start playing. There are serious growing pains with it, despite the fact sc2 is infinitely easier than brood war. None of my RL friends play sc2 because there is too many things to do and it becomes chore to them vs a fun game. also dota 5.54 > *. I never got why people say this, SC2 isn't really hard at all to just pick up and quickly get to at least silver/gold league so that you have enough understanding to enjoy watching games. Even a lot of bronze games could probably get you to that point of understanding. it's not necessarily hard to learn, but undeniably hard for someone who has zero experience with RTS games previously. It was easy for me because i grew up playing brood war and wc3 religiously, but for someone with zero knowledge and zero mechanical skill, i'm not sure how you can say it wouldn't be hard for them to learn. dota isn't any easier for someone completely new to the genre either... and in pro games have a ton of dynamics you'll virtually never see in a casual pub game. Basically, anyone claiming SC2 is more difficult than Dota2 is clueless.
my anecdotal evidence of the experiences of my real life friends says the opposite. I've had countless friends who took up hon/lol no problem, but they were never able to fully pick up starcraft. Sc2 is more difficult that dota 2, and it's origins is DIRECT evidence of it.
how was dota get big? it got big because it was infinitely easier than wc3. Wc3 players had a much more enjoyable time playing dota vs wc3 because it was much, much simpler. Keep in mind without wc3 and blizzard and the old aeon of strife games that date back to brood war, it's entirely possible there is no such thing as lol/dota 2 today.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ayDSSZT.png)
