• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:06
CEST 00:06
KST 07:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event10Serral wins EWC 202546Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple5SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments5[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10
StarCraft 2
General
Lambo Talks: The Future of SC2 and more... Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Serral wins EWC 2025 Real talk: we need to stop nerfing everything
Tourneys
Global Tourney for College Students in September RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather
Brood War
General
StarCon Philadelphia ASL20 Pre-season Tier List ranking! BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Simultaneous Streaming by CasterMuse
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues KCM 2025 Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Gaming After Dark: Poor Slee…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 662 users

No Starcraft 2 at MLG Columbus (so far) - Page 23

Forum Index > SC2 General
1123 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 57 Next
Asha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom38255 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-08 18:14:43
August 08 2013 18:13 GMT
#441
Too many people have bought into Artosis' delusion that Starcraft is some timeless, intrinsically superior form of entertainment like chess (and we all know how long chess has been around right?) that will never die.

It isn't.

Time passes, people get bored and move on to new games. This isn't football or basketball or soccer. Unlike the human body, computer hardware is rapidly and constantly improving and with it the games played on it also evolve and improve. Let your personal enjoyment of SC2 be enough.


Pretty much this.

Esports sustainability will always be a genre thing in my mind. RTS players will RTS, FPS will FPS, fighters will fight and so on, but the games will always change with time. We already see it with war3/bw/sc2, with FGC members playing multiple games, etc etc.

Esports careers are just so short as the norm nowadays that there aren't that many people who do transition from game to game yet.
Ureth_RA
Profile Joined July 2011
United States78 Posts
August 08 2013 18:14 GMT
#442
First IPL now MLG next is dreamhack and IEM!!
Pein Is Love
norjoncal
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
89 Posts
August 08 2013 18:14 GMT
#443
On August 09 2013 02:58 packrat386 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 02:48 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
On August 08 2013 22:58 XaCez wrote:
So, let's see what has changed in the NA scene:
IPL: Gone.
MLG: Gone.
NASL: Works with WCS.
WCS: Koreans.

Missed something?

IEM New York

Also Robert Ohlen's dream is to have dreamhack in us :D

Not to mention Red Bull LANs.





I do not think MLG is leaving SC2 altogether
They are not going to do SC2 at one of their events.

MLG Columbus is only 2 weeks after Blizzcon.
So after the biggest SC2 event of the year people are supposed to get hyped again?

I feel SC2 should really have an Off Season of 3-4 months a year.

Snorkle
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1648 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-08 18:20:16
August 08 2013 18:17 GMT
#444
On August 09 2013 03:13 Asha` wrote:
Show nested quote +
Too many people have bought into Artosis' delusion that Starcraft is some timeless, intrinsically superior form of entertainment like chess (and we all know how long chess has been around right?) that will never die.

It isn't.

Time passes, people get bored and move on to new games. This isn't football or basketball or soccer. Unlike the human body, computer hardware is rapidly and constantly improving and with it the games played on it also evolve and improve. Let your personal enjoyment of SC2 be enough.


Pretty much this.

Esports sustainability will always be a genre thing in my mind. RTS players will RTS, FPS will FPS, fighters will fight and so on, but the games will always change with time. We already see it with war3/bw/sc2, with FGC members playing multiple games, etc etc.

Esports careers are just so short as the norm nowadays that there aren't that many people who do transition from game to game yet.


Aren't that many who transition from game to game? What? Every FGC pro even the 09'ers have transitioned from game to game. All the BW pros who switched to SC2. All the WC3 pros who switched to SC2. All the quake pros who went through various iterations of Quake before settling on QuakeLive. The FPS pros who switched from 1.6 to source to GO or whatever the latest COD title is.

There will always be those who hang back on previous games but to say that there aren't many people who transition from game to game is hilariously out of touch.

edit: how could I forget all the Dota pros who switched to Dota 2 or LoL or Hon.
also editing "player" to "pro" for better clarity.
Jintoss
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong117 Posts
August 08 2013 18:19 GMT
#445
MLG is irrelevant in the SC2 scene now, after messing up WCS qualifiers and being replaced by the NASL team. Back to trying to turn CoD into a national past time?

Really I see this less as 'zomg sc2 is dead esports gg' and more that SC2 has outgrown the large, grassroots spectacles that MLG built its brand on.
We are the blades of Aiur
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-08 18:21:55
August 08 2013 18:21 GMT
#446
On August 09 2013 03:17 Snorkle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 03:13 Asha` wrote:
Too many people have bought into Artosis' delusion that Starcraft is some timeless, intrinsically superior form of entertainment like chess (and we all know how long chess has been around right?) that will never die.

It isn't.

Time passes, people get bored and move on to new games. This isn't football or basketball or soccer. Unlike the human body, computer hardware is rapidly and constantly improving and with it the games played on it also evolve and improve. Let your personal enjoyment of SC2 be enough.


Pretty much this.

Esports sustainability will always be a genre thing in my mind. RTS players will RTS, FPS will FPS, fighters will fight and so on, but the games will always change with time. We already see it with war3/bw/sc2, with FGC members playing multiple games, etc etc.

Esports careers are just so short as the norm nowadays that there aren't that many people who do transition from game to game yet.


Aren't that many who transition from game to game? What? Every FGC pro even the 09'ers have transitioned from game to game. All the BW pros who switched to SC2. All the WC3 pros who switched to SC2. All the quake pros who went through various iterations of Quake before settling on QuakeLive. The FPS pros who switched from 1.6 to source to GO or whatever the latest COD title is.

There will always be those who hang back on previous games but to say that there aren't many people who transition from game to game is hilariously out of touch.

edit: how could I forget all the Dota pros who switched to Dota 2 or LoL or Hon.
also editing "player" to "pro" for better clarity.


You are 100% incorrect about FPS games.

There are currently more people playing 1.6 than either Source or GO. There are also very significant active communities for both QuakeWorld and CPMA (and probably for Q2 and Q4 as well) existing right alongside Quake Live.

Sorry but I can't let you spread misinformation like that. And please don't compare skill-based games like CS and Quake to COD, it makes you look like a complete and utter fool.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
August 08 2013 18:22 GMT
#447
On August 09 2013 01:46 nihlon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 01:42 Targe wrote:
On August 09 2013 01:40 waitwhat wrote:
On August 08 2013 22:16 packrat386 wrote:
On August 08 2013 22:15 Erraa93 wrote:
On August 08 2013 22:13 packrat386 wrote:
On August 08 2013 22:11 InsanityUK wrote:
I think if they had something else planned then he wouldn't have phrased it that way but you never know.

Not necessarily. MLG likes hype, so having the community already stirred up and thinking about MLG before they make their new announcement could be good for them.


By potentially bringing out the people who pitchfork at every announcement... idk man

Any press is good press.


said nobody ever.

The fact that people specifically use that idea to promote products/business/whatever would indicate the contrary.

It's true to some extend but to say that any press is good press is just false from a literal sense . There's countless of examples where negative press have been harmful, there's really no debate there.

It's pointless of course to say that no one ever said that though, there isn't anything to debate though.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
ROOTheognis
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States4482 Posts
August 08 2013 18:22 GMT
#448
I'm glad I got out while I did. It's a joke to be an NA progamer atm rofl...
If you avoid your weakness, it will remain your weakness. www.twitter.com/#!/rootheognis Follow me!
Snorkle
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1648 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-08 18:27:20
August 08 2013 18:23 GMT
#449
On August 09 2013 03:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 03:17 Snorkle wrote:
On August 09 2013 03:13 Asha` wrote:
Too many people have bought into Artosis' delusion that Starcraft is some timeless, intrinsically superior form of entertainment like chess (and we all know how long chess has been around right?) that will never die.

It isn't.

Time passes, people get bored and move on to new games. This isn't football or basketball or soccer. Unlike the human body, computer hardware is rapidly and constantly improving and with it the games played on it also evolve and improve. Let your personal enjoyment of SC2 be enough.


Pretty much this.

Esports sustainability will always be a genre thing in my mind. RTS players will RTS, FPS will FPS, fighters will fight and so on, but the games will always change with time. We already see it with war3/bw/sc2, with FGC members playing multiple games, etc etc.

Esports careers are just so short as the norm nowadays that there aren't that many people who do transition from game to game yet.


Aren't that many who transition from game to game? What? Every FGC pro even the 09'ers have transitioned from game to game. All the BW pros who switched to SC2. All the WC3 pros who switched to SC2. All the quake pros who went through various iterations of Quake before settling on QuakeLive. The FPS pros who switched from 1.6 to source to GO or whatever the latest COD title is.

There will always be those who hang back on previous games but to say that there aren't many people who transition from game to game is hilariously out of touch.

edit: how could I forget all the Dota pros who switched to Dota 2 or LoL or Hon.
also editing "player" to "pro" for better clarity.


You are 100% incorrect about FPS games.

There are currently more people playing 1.6 than either Source or GO. There are also very significant active communities for both QuakeWorld and CPMA (and probably for Q2 and Q4 as well) existing right alongside Quake Live.

Sorry but I can't let you spread misinformation like that. And please don't compare skill-based games like CS and Quake to COD, it makes you look like a complete and utter fool.


There are more people playing 1.6. I am talking about pros and pro teams. I also pointed out that people hang back. People still play broodwar. I am talking about active competitive and sponsored scenes and the fact that players do indeed switch through games. Not about player numbers or the fact that QuakeWorld still has an active community.

edit: I didn't make any comparison between COD and CS. I was just pointing out all the games that have had various iterations where professional players have moved from one game to the next. Don't go all fanboi on me.
Canucklehead
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada5074 Posts
August 08 2013 18:24 GMT
#450
It's a shame the #saveHotS campaign only worked temporarily. Need to get an early jump on this now. #saveLotV
Top 10 favourite pros: MKP, MVP, MC, Nestea, DRG, Jaedong, Flash, Life, Creator, Leenock
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 08 2013 18:24 GMT
#451
On August 09 2013 03:22 ROOTheognis wrote:
I'm glad I got out while I did. It's a joke to be an NA progamer atm rofl...


as opposed to six months ago?
I think 'joke' is the wrong word, it's just really brutal to be one at all
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
dcsoda
Profile Joined June 2011
United States583 Posts
August 08 2013 18:26 GMT
#452
On August 09 2013 03:14 norjoncal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 02:58 packrat386 wrote:
On August 09 2013 02:48 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
On August 08 2013 22:58 XaCez wrote:
So, let's see what has changed in the NA scene:
IPL: Gone.
MLG: Gone.
NASL: Works with WCS.
WCS: Koreans.

Missed something?

IEM New York

Also Robert Ohlen's dream is to have dreamhack in us :D

Not to mention Red Bull LANs.





I do not think MLG is leaving SC2 altogether
They are not going to do SC2 at one of their events.

MLG Columbus is only 2 weeks after Blizzcon.
So after the biggest SC2 event of the year people are supposed to get hyped again?

I feel SC2 should really have an Off Season of 3-4 months a year.



Well I was certainly planning to go if that helps. There went the only event even close to the Chicago area...
DeathProfessor
Profile Joined March 2012
United States1052 Posts
August 08 2013 18:27 GMT
#453
Twitter is bullshit and people should have abandoned that already its 2013. I have never had a better feeling about a SC2 pro or personality from a Tweet. Have you? They always come off as whiny bitches to me. TotalBiscuit meant well but his tweets really just stirred up the beesnest. =/ "If there isn't a SC2 at this event, the scene is DEAD and I retire!"

Sundance should not have even mentioned it on Twitter. He should have created a website and conspicuously left out SC2 and made a small press release saying a few words about how the current marketplace did not justify a SC2 event in Columbus but please stay tuned for future events.

That would have been a drama free way. You just can't run a professional business on Twitter. Just stahp.

Honestly, speaking from my heart, I have been watching 1.5 years and can barely keep my attention on the screen. No matter how you dress it up, SC2 is just becoming boring to me. If I keep a stream on its usually like radio, I read TL or news while its on in the background.

When its about the people I love like Grubby, I love the game again. That to me is why I watch SC2 to see the people who grow up with me succeed. That was one of my favorite moments seeing Grubby's face after winning.

I don't care about "high-level" games anymore, they usually just disappoint. We get the best Koreans in the world, they usually just cheese each other for 3 of 5 games. Maybe 4 of 5. I stayed up to watch Innovation vs. Maru. I got 3 straight cheeses. Don't feel like another 4AM bender just for that again. I just feel like for the most part I have seen it all now.

When Stephano retired it felt like a metaphor for the game and the foreigner scene. We love it but its becoming less passionate and washed up, it can still show us great plays but they are becoming few and far between and HoTS killed it.

I felt like this week was the week when SC2 retired from the US scene.
skatblast
Profile Joined September 2011
United States784 Posts
August 08 2013 18:27 GMT
#454
damn, i was really excited to go to my first big esports event. No reason to go if its just LoL and cod i could care less.
KillerSOS
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States4207 Posts
August 08 2013 18:29 GMT
#455
The people who say it's not MLG without SC2 should see what happened to Halo. MLG is a business and they have to act as such.
TheLastTemplar
Profile Joined February 2012
Iceland593 Posts
August 08 2013 18:29 GMT
#456
pshhh I was gonna sex up all my internet friends QQ
ladadidadi
dcsoda
Profile Joined June 2011
United States583 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-08 18:32:56
August 08 2013 18:29 GMT
#457
On August 09 2013 03:27 DeathProfessor wrote:
Twitter is bullshit and people should have abandoned that already its 2013. I have never had a better feeling about a SC2 pro or personality from a Tweet. Have you? They always come off as whiny bitches to me. TotalBiscuit meant well but his tweets really just stirred up the beesnest. =/ "If there isn't a SC2 at this event, the scene is DEAD and I retire!"

Sundance should not have even mentioned it on Twitter. He should have created a website and conspicuously left out SC2 and made a small press release saying a few words about how the current marketplace did not justify a SC2 event in Columbus but please stay tuned for future events.

That would have been a drama free way. You just can't run a professional business on Twitter. Just stahp.

Honestly, speaking from my heart, I have been watching 1.5 years and can barely keep my attention on the screen. No matter how you dress it up, SC2 is just becoming boring to me. If I keep a stream on its usually like radio, I read TL or news while its on in the background.

When its about the people I love like Grubby, I love the game again. That to me is why I watch SC2 to see the people who grow up with me succeed. That was one of my favorite moments seeing Grubby's face after winning.

I don't care about "high-level" games anymore, they usually just disappoint. We get the best Koreans in the world, they usually just cheese each other for 3 of 5 games. Maybe 4 of 5. I stayed up to watch Innovation vs. Maru. I got 3 straight cheeses. Don't feel like another 4AM bender just for that again. I just feel like for the most part I have seen it all now.

When Stephano retired it felt like a metaphor for the game and the foreigner scene. We love it but its becoming less passionate and washed up, it can still show us great plays but they are becoming few and far between and HoTS killed it.

I felt like this week was the week when SC2 retired from the US scene.


How on earth is this HOTS fault? The expansion has made the game SO much more enjoyable to watch and we are seeing much better games than the last year and a half. Don't confuse your burn out with the game getting worse. It isn't.
huller20
Profile Joined August 2010
United States112 Posts
August 08 2013 18:30 GMT
#458
Ditto. No SC2? No reason to go to MLG or watch.
Anomi
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden149 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-08 18:33:47
August 08 2013 18:31 GMT
#459
They probably just ran out of money for this year. I’m guessing they do a budget every year for each cirut on how much money they can spend on each game. According to Total Biscuit MLG lost allot with running WCS and that resulted to the last event being delayed. They probably used up the Columbus money to run the last event. Also they are probally under a NDA since they cant say the reason for the drop. So its something on the business side.

Meanwhile we have a Dremhack increasing event and doing one in Russia plus Canada. IEM doing one event in Newyork and Redbull hinting something for NA players. i think we are fine and we will se a sc2 event from mlg next year.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
August 08 2013 18:33 GMT
#460
On August 09 2013 03:14 norjoncal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2013 02:58 packrat386 wrote:
On August 09 2013 02:48 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
On August 08 2013 22:58 XaCez wrote:
So, let's see what has changed in the NA scene:
IPL: Gone.
MLG: Gone.
NASL: Works with WCS.
WCS: Koreans.

Missed something?

IEM New York

Also Robert Ohlen's dream is to have dreamhack in us :D

Not to mention Red Bull LANs.





I do not think MLG is leaving SC2 altogether
They are not going to do SC2 at one of their events.

MLG Columbus is only 2 weeks after Blizzcon.
So after the biggest SC2 event of the year people are supposed to get hyped again?

I feel SC2 should really have an Off Season of 3-4 months a year.
This post makes a lot of sense.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 57 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ForJumy 93
CosmosSc2 51
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 553
firebathero 130
sSak 79
ggaemo 62
HiyA 14
Stormgate
Nathanias179
Dota 2
syndereN557
capcasts222
League of Legends
JimRising 107
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu579
Khaldor197
Other Games
summit1g5148
Grubby2526
Beastyqt384
C9.Mang0220
Hui .207
ZombieGrub107
Mew2King52
JuggernautJason38
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV90
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta47
• RyuSc2 37
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 33
• Pr0nogo 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade772
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur220
Other Games
• imaqtpie2295
• Scarra1231
• WagamamaTV128
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 54m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
12h 54m
RSL Revival
18h 54m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 1h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 12h
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
Online Event
4 days
[ Show More ]
SC Evo League
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
SC Evo League
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Sharp vs Ample
Larva vs Stork
Wardi Open
6 days
RotterdaM Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

StarCon 2025 Philadelphia
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.