There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
It's pretty sad really. For this reason I go out of my way to give positive crit on stuff I actually enjoy, although if I hadn't gone through the process myself I'm not so sure I would do so.
Positive/agreeable people stay silent and just assume that you are somewhere aware of their approval, and people with nothing better to do tear you to shreds.
Really, Tasteless and Artosis have said it best when they say they don't even visit TL or look at community sites any more. I cant blame them. I think it is harming everyone, from players to event runners, trying to please the masses of the internet that only want to tear you down. I kinda long for the day when they ignore us and do whatever they want(like Valve).
It's a real shame in a way. If people weren't cunts, the likes of Twitch chat would actually be a unique source of bonding between the pros we admire and the people who follow them.
If I have to hear another 'it's the internet, deal with it' justification of cuntish behaviour that ruins potential avenues of interaction and discussion for everybody else with a modicum of decency and restraint I may go to my nearest mountain and scream from its peak.
The internet has literally been like this since it started I don't know what people expect, the price of fame is being in the public eye and when you are "internet famous" that public has an anonymous voice. It's not going to change.
I post youtube videos and never go back to them again because I realize that it's just going to be a shitfest no matter what my content is.
No it hasn't, at least not nearly as bad as it is now. In the earlier, less-centralised days the internet was a much more agreeable place to reside. I had a lot of experiences on it that I really can't see myself replicating on the current platforms of choice.
Without wanting to be a complete elitist (while being completely elitist admittedly) the problems spiralled when the uptake started to move towards being universal.
I feel like you weren't that active on the internet back then because if anything it was worse because no one was "saving esports" and everyone just hated everyone.
There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
I make more money going to school full time(government pays living allowance for students) than most pro gamers and that's just extremely sad.
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
On August 01 2013 09:35 SpecialistSc wrote: fundamentally, all these misfortunes come from blizzard's terrible WCS format
False. The root of the problem was the same before WCS. What tournaments were NA players going to win to sustain themselves before WCS that they can't now?
We need a players union to force teams to pay their players a certain amount (a minimum salary, say $40k a year). And to play in tournaments the teams must have their players be part of the union (like kespa). Then esports will be like regular sports and be more stable. Many teams will not be able to afford paying their players this, which is good because it gets rid of the huge influx of mediocre pro players and poorly managed teams.
I really like his level-headed personality on Meta the times he was on it. A bit of a shame I knew next to nothing of him pre-HOTS =\. In any case, all the best to you TheOgnis, hopefully you'll stop by the LR threads!
On August 01 2013 09:49 L0L wrote: We need a players union to force teams to pay their players a certain amount (a minimum salary, say $40k a year). And to play in tournaments the teams must have their players be part of the union (like kespa). Then esports will be like regular sports and be more stable. Many teams will not be able to afford paying their players this, which is good because it gets rid of the huge influx of mediocre pro players and poorly managed teams.
I, too, support a scene composed of EG, SKT1, Flash, and maybe some TL members.
On August 01 2013 09:49 L0L wrote: We need a players union to force teams to pay their players a certain amount (a minimum salary, say $40k a year). And to play in tournaments the teams must have their players be part of the union (like kespa). Then esports will be like regular sports and be more stable. Many teams will not be able to afford paying their players this, which is good because it gets rid of the huge influx of mediocre pro players and poorly managed teams.
The problem with this is the US is such a vast country, just traveling costs serious money. Compared to KR we would have to need huge houses (To hold big teams of people) to generate enough brain power and really yield some sick new talent/grow the old. And to this point we would need a-lot of teams doing this. We would literally need a mini Seoul and we just don't have one. The closest thing would be to huddle on SF @ this point btw. KR has a lot of time doing this compared to USA. Look @ the state of the current scene, are we really growing our players? I don't think so. Letting people just play on NA ladder isn't doing shit for skill. The only NA team that even is coming close to doing this atm is ROOT. But hey I have my doubts, something people need to learn is yes this is a 1v1 game, and that's not the best thing for issues like these. But we need to work TOGETHER to beat them, because they work together to beat each other......and us by de facto.
PS. In an interview with Puck he was asked if he was practicing with his peers, he said no. I feel like this is not a good sign, it just seems like the same old shit. I want see the skill level of NA as a whole rise up, its wishful thinking I guess.This is me just being a stick in the mud, but i'm just really sad right now for SC2 ><.
sad to hear, but if you're not feeling it, may as well move on. if you put half the dedication you put into sc2 into anything you do, Im sure things will turn out badass
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
It's pretty sad really. For this reason I go out of my way to give positive crit on stuff I actually enjoy, although if I hadn't gone through the process myself I'm not so sure I would do so.
Positive/agreeable people stay silent and just assume that you are somewhere aware of their approval, and people with nothing better to do tear you to shreds.
Really, Tasteless and Artosis have said it best when they say they don't even visit TL or look at community sites any more. I cant blame them. I think it is harming everyone, from players to event runners, trying to please the masses of the internet that only want to tear you down. I kinda long for the day when they ignore us and do whatever they want(like Valve).
It's a real shame in a way. If people weren't cunts, the likes of Twitch chat would actually be a unique source of bonding between the pros we admire and the people who follow them.
If I have to hear another 'it's the internet, deal with it' justification of cuntish behaviour that ruins potential avenues of interaction and discussion for everybody else with a modicum of decency and restraint I may go to my nearest mountain and scream from its peak.
The internet has literally been like this since it started I don't know what people expect, the price of fame is being in the public eye and when you are "internet famous" that public has an anonymous voice. It's not going to change.
I post youtube videos and never go back to them again because I realize that it's just going to be a shitfest no matter what my content is.
No it hasn't, at least not nearly as bad as it is now. In the earlier, less-centralised days the internet was a much more agreeable place to reside. I had a lot of experiences on it that I really can't see myself replicating on the current platforms of choice.
Without wanting to be a complete elitist (while being completely elitist admittedly) the problems spiralled when the uptake started to move towards being universal.
I feel like you weren't that active on the internet back then because if anything it was worse because no one was "saving esports" and everyone just hated everyone.
There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
I make more money going to school full time(government pays living allowance for students) than most pro gamers and that's just extremely sad.
Oh I was, I maybe had a different mentality back then which is perfectly possible as well.
Agreed fully on the desirability of being a progamer, ESPECIALLY as despite not being well-paid, you don't exactly make that back up in positivity coming back at you from the community.
On August 01 2013 09:49 L0L wrote: We need a players union to force teams to pay their players a certain amount (a minimum salary, say $40k a year). And to play in tournaments the teams must have their players be part of the union (like kespa). Then esports will be like regular sports and be more stable. Many teams will not be able to afford paying their players this, which is good because it gets rid of the huge influx of mediocre pro players and poorly managed teams.
sounds like a good idea, but far and far away from reality
40k/yr would every player go pro if they can =) most pros make less than that I believe
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job.
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job.
Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit. You think people like TB will stop doing this for a living? Get real. TB Makes content for people who enjoy content about video games, how is streaming any different. Don't pigeon hole yourself and its totally do-able lifestyle.
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job.
Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit.
You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol.
On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums .
EPT
Best of luck in whatever you do in the future!
