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Confirmed, eSports is dead
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I feel like TheOgnis is essentially being a man by making the decision almost every other American pro is going to make sooner or later. TheOgnis was a player who was decently competitive, but at the end of the day, him getting top 8 in any major tournament would be a giant shocker. He was bound to the NA scene without any real hopes of getting anywhere else. We all know the types who are in his boat. I'm at least glad to see him man up and admit when its over and not going anywhere. I feel really bad for the others who are still in denial 
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On August 01 2013 10:48 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 10:44 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 10:41 Esoterikk wrote:On August 01 2013 09:47 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote:
There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand. There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job. Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit. You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol. On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums  .
That's exactly my point, to succeed you need to be entertaining people........what is wrong with what i said. If you do something for money and can afford to LIVE how is that not a job. And what does that have to do with me calling out someone for pulling BS numbers from their ass wtf!
PS.
Job: Noun
A paid position of regular employment.
Yep, looks like a job to me!
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Good luck with whatever you do in the future!
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On August 01 2013 10:51 Moochlol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 10:48 docvoc wrote:On August 01 2013 10:44 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 10:41 Esoterikk wrote:On August 01 2013 09:47 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote:
There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand. There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job. Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit. You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol. On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums . That's exactly my point, to succeed you need to be entertaining people........what is wrong with what i said. If you do something for money and can afford to LIVE how is that not a job. And what does that have to do with me calling out someone for pulling BS numbers from their ass wtf!
Because it is relying on the intangibles of being a 'personality' to be successful.
When you get to that stage, sure it is a job, but to rely on it and pursue something so inherently risky and on such a weak foundation is a terrible idea.
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Aww he seemed like s nice mellow dude . Gl if man!!!
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So sad. WCS was supposed to make pro's more motivated. T__T .GJ Blizz
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This sucks. I was becoming a really big fan GL Theo!
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On August 01 2013 10:55 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 10:51 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 10:48 docvoc wrote:On August 01 2013 10:44 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 10:41 Esoterikk wrote:On August 01 2013 09:47 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote:
There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand. There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job. Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit. You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol. On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums . That's exactly my point, to succeed you need to be entertaining people........what is wrong with what i said. If you do something for money and can afford to LIVE how is that not a job. And what does that have to do with me calling out someone for pulling BS numbers from their ass wtf! Because it is relying on the intangibles of being a 'personality' to be successful. When you get to that stage, sure it is a job, but to rely on it and pursue something so inherently risky and on such a weak foundation is a terrible idea.
Doing something you love and getting paid for it is so terrible I forgot that everyone should conform to the "norm" and just 9-5. Most likely @ a job they do not enjoy. I really don't get how being an online entertainer is really all that risky. You can still have a part time job to pay the bills until your channel takes off or doesn't... Do I think playing SC2 in NA while just trying to profit from tourney results is profitable? Hell no, that's why I sight entertainers instead because I think it's much more realistic. Maximus and Destiny, are some people I used in my examples because they ARE the norm for the people I think who have it "right". Just look @ Day9 he eats sleeps and breaths video games atm. Does he have anything to fall back on hell yes he does! But that's part of any good life plan...
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I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On August 01 2013 11:05 Moochlol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 10:55 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 10:51 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 10:48 docvoc wrote:On August 01 2013 10:44 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 10:41 Esoterikk wrote:On August 01 2013 09:47 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote:
There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand. There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job. Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit. You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol. On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums . That's exactly my point, to succeed you need to be entertaining people........what is wrong with what i said. If you do something for money and can afford to LIVE how is that not a job. And what does that have to do with me calling out someone for pulling BS numbers from their ass wtf! Because it is relying on the intangibles of being a 'personality' to be successful. When you get to that stage, sure it is a job, but to rely on it and pursue something so inherently risky and on such a weak foundation is a terrible idea. Doing something you love and getting paid for it is so terrible I forgot that everyone should conform to the "norm" and just 9-5. Most likely @ a job they do not enjoy. I really don't get how being an online entertainer is really all that risky. You can still have a part time job to pay the bills until your channel takes off or doesn't... Do I think playing SC2 in NA while just trying to profit from tourney results is profitable? Hell no, that's why I sight entertainers instead because I think it's much more realistic. Maximus and Destiny, are some people I used in my examples because they ARE the norm for the people I think who have it "right". Just look @ Day9 he eats sleeps and breaths video games atm. Does he have anything to fall back on hell yes he does! But that's part of any good life plan...
Trying to make money from tournaments is at least something within your control. You get better at the game, you increase your potential earning.
There seems no 'formula' to being a successful streamer, so much of it is blind luck or being in the right place and a specific point in time.
Do it by all means, don't pin your hopes on it working out. Same with trying to make it in music, or anything else that requires the endorsement of fellow humans.
It can work out, it's not a reliable approach.
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On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote:
I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
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On August 01 2013 11:12 Moochlol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote:
I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream. Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
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On August 01 2013 11:09 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 11:05 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 10:55 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 01 2013 10:51 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 10:48 docvoc wrote:On August 01 2013 10:44 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 10:41 Esoterikk wrote:On August 01 2013 09:47 Moochlol wrote:On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote:
There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand. There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job. Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit. You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol. On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums . That's exactly my point, to succeed you need to be entertaining people........what is wrong with what i said. If you do something for money and can afford to LIVE how is that not a job. And what does that have to do with me calling out someone for pulling BS numbers from their ass wtf! Because it is relying on the intangibles of being a 'personality' to be successful. When you get to that stage, sure it is a job, but to rely on it and pursue something so inherently risky and on such a weak foundation is a terrible idea. Doing something you love and getting paid for it is so terrible I forgot that everyone should conform to the "norm" and just 9-5. Most likely @ a job they do not enjoy. I really don't get how being an online entertainer is really all that risky. You can still have a part time job to pay the bills until your channel takes off or doesn't... Do I think playing SC2 in NA while just trying to profit from tourney results is profitable? Hell no, that's why I sight entertainers instead because I think it's much more realistic. Maximus and Destiny, are some people I used in my examples because they ARE the norm for the people I think who have it "right". Just look @ Day9 he eats sleeps and breaths video games atm. Does he have anything to fall back on hell yes he does! But that's part of any good life plan... Trying to make money from tournaments is at least something within your control. You get better at the game, you increase your potential earning. There seems no 'formula' to being a successful streamer, so much of it is blind luck or being in the right place and a specific point in time. Do it by all means, don't pin your hopes on it working out. Same with trying to make it in music, or anything else that requires the endorsement of fellow humans. It can work out, it's not a reliable approach.
I think one can find a formula, Off the top of my head I think its a combination of natural entertaining talent (learning to entertain through social interaction). Hard work, charisma, skill, devotion so many other factors! Some people have it and some don't. Just like music, some people think they got it, but the people have to want what you are making. You have to make sure what you are producing is good! If it's not then obv you have delusions, this happens a lot with music and other things. You just cant all in nam sayin? Be responsible about it, and honestly i think its just fine, especially if you really fucking love it. Which is really the most important thing. Money is bullshit. If you can support yourself and whatever else you gotta support, then i call that being a fucking boss, and not a sheep. Is some if it luck, like starting when something is hot sure it does, but that's YOUR call to go in on what you think has potential, if you look @ sc2 right now its hard to make that call.
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I always read his name as "The Ogre Nis" or something. Sounds fearsome at least.
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On August 01 2013 10:50 Mohdoo wrote:I feel like TheOgnis is essentially being a man by making the decision almost every other American pro is going to make sooner or later. TheOgnis was a player who was decently competitive, but at the end of the day, him getting top 8 in any major tournament would be a giant shocker. He was bound to the NA scene without any real hopes of getting anywhere else. We all know the types who are in his boat. I'm at least glad to see him man up and admit when its over and not going anywhere. I feel really bad for the others who are still in denial Every foreigner is in his boat, and thats why sc2 will collapse shortly. Sorry to be one of 'those guys', but a scene cant survive beyond a niche market in a niche market, without familiar personalities, people who you can empathize with, people to inspire you to try 'it' [at the very least consistent engagement in the community, if not an attempt at progaming] out as well. That cant happen with 99% of people being Korean. And this was always going to happen because we dont have proper incentives for foreign players, and everyone rejected the only means to create those incentives, such as American only [etc] regional leagues.
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Theo had more raw talent than almost any other player on NA. I still remember watching him fuck around on a Master account on EU while drunk. It was ranked like 70 so I expected him to be matching masters. Only he was crushing top 16 gms cross server with ease...
This smells of tilt. I mean he committed so much of himself to the game the last year. So so sad if true.
Best of luck Theo. A late night ladder hero.
Edit:
Also, I blame the Koreans. It's ridiculous that the wcs na qualifiers have code a and code s level koreans. They aren't giving ANY NA talent the chance to shine. Shame on blizzard.
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Making the right decision. Good luck bud.
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EPT
