On August 01 2013 07:50 LimeNade wrote: Guessing it's from falling out of WCS?
he didn't fall out, WCS NA and EU are incredibly forgiving compared to KR, everyone still gets a chance to even qualify for Premier in group stages no matter what
On August 01 2013 07:50 LimeNade wrote: Guessing it's from falling out of WCS?
he didn't fall out, WCS NA and EU are incredibly forgiving compared to KR, everyone still gets a chance to even qualify for Premier in group stages no matter what
Good luck, theognis.
Hmm then can't really grasp why he would retire if he did finish his degree in school? I dunno how much ROOT is supporting him but they just got a house so wouldn't see why not just move in there for a bit and see how it goes.
After his failed 2 racks and getting killed by Oracle opener it seems like a good choice. Sorry to see good players to go away, but on the otherhand it might give new players some chance to rise and shine!
ooooooooldschool goes down is so sad he is one of the last american titans from the past i will miss him, seems he not has the power to fight himself back in wcs/shape
On August 01 2013 07:50 krazykoz wrote: Judging from his other tweet, makes one think he got sick of the haters.
Always enjoyed your games, theognis. Good luck with whatever you choose to do now.
What haters? Theo is relatively popular I thought, and is often on talkshows and the like.
Wait to hear his reasoning, instinctively I think it's due to WCS NA rather than giving the NA scene a shot in the arm, is having the opposite effect to the pros there.
On August 01 2013 07:50 krazykoz wrote: Judging from his other tweet, makes one think he got sick of the haters.
Always enjoyed your games, theognis. Good luck with whatever you choose to do now.
What haters? Theo is relatively popular I thought, and is often on talkshows and the like.
The first reply to his announcement was someone being an asshole. No matter how popular a player is, there will always be haters. Unfortunate anyone can make an anonymous twitter account and troll people who are putting themselves out there for their fans.
Theo!!! Just cuz you quit SC2 doesn't mean I won't stop rooting for you! I wish you luck in grad school or whatever you pursue. Let me know if there is anything I can do for you
On August 01 2013 07:50 krazykoz wrote: Judging from his other tweet, makes one think he got sick of the haters.
Always enjoyed your games, theognis. Good luck with whatever you choose to do now.
What haters? Theo is relatively popular I thought, and is often on talkshows and the like.
The first reply to his announcement was someone being an asshole. No matter how popular a player is, there will always be haters. Unfortunate anyone can make an anonymous twitter account and troll people who are putting themselves out there for their fans.
I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
Why would you retire right at the point where you were starting to get a bunch of attention? Hope its not true, theo is one of the nicest sc2 players...
On August 01 2013 08:33 Fusilero wrote: At least he can say he beat defeated the tyrant in the name of glorious freedom.
Could be part of it. I mean he was around in the scene in BW right? If you're not a tournament-winner, where do you really go after defeating the Dong?
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river. I don't blame people for bagging out and moving on. Its little pay, a hard fought battle for with a lot of room for failure and a ton of hate from a bitch community.
He was a sick good player in Brood War, took games off from sick good players like Jaedong, and sick good at being sick good. Thank you and good luck Theo!!! :D
Foreign scene loses one of the hardest-working players who spent over a year as a completely unknown player clawing for an opportunity because even with his dedication he couldn't afford to be a progamer. The scene is only going to become less and less sustainable for players like Theognis and Fuzer (two players that played WAY more than the average foreigner).
Maybe Totalbiscuit will win the lottery one day... a man can dream I suppose.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Literally the only foreign terran I remotely cared about, that really does suck a lot. Sad day for starcraft.
On August 01 2013 08:40 Moochlol wrote: WCS claims another victim, GG blizzard, you are killing us.
Can we stop jumping the gun and let the man himself explain his reasoning first?
How am I jumping the gun, the man himself said he is done. If you don't think the format of WCS is toxic to the NA scene you are is denial.
Can we just be sad the guy quit SC2 and talk about all the awesome shit he did, rather than this becoming another Blizzard hate train? Seriously, we get it, but it doesn't mean every thread needs to be about it.
On August 01 2013 08:46 ROOTNathanias wrote: Foreign scene loses one of the hardest-working players who spent over a year as a completely unknown player clawing for an opportunity because even with his dedication he couldn't afford to be a progamer. The scene is only going to become less and less sustainable for players like Theognis and Fuzer (two players that played WAY more than the average foreigner).
Maybe Totalbiscuit will win the lottery one day... a man can dream I suppose.
i agree that theognis rised from the ashes, and was looking like he could become the next best thing but fuzer? i don't know maybe he was dedicated but he didn't seem to work hard enough no results were shown in my opinion. and he said on fb that he didn't really have the motivation to practice. on topic: It's really sad to see him go, and unexpected, i wish him the best of luck in the future! enjoyed him a lot on meta
On August 01 2013 08:40 Moochlol wrote: WCS claims another victim, GG blizzard, you are killing us.
Can we stop jumping the gun and let the man himself explain his reasoning first?
How am I jumping the gun, the man himself said he is done. If you don't think the format of WCS is toxic to the NA scene you are is denial.
What was there before WCS? Why does EU have truckloads of daily/weekly tournament and NA almost none? The root of the problem is not with the big tournaments only the big guns can win, but with small tournament people can make a name, some small money and reputation from.
On August 01 2013 08:40 Moochlol wrote: WCS claims another victim, GG blizzard, you are killing us.
Can we stop jumping the gun and let the man himself explain his reasoning first?
How am I jumping the gun, the man himself said he is done. If you don't think the format of WCS is toxic to the NA scene you are is denial.
Can we just be sad the guy quit SC2 and talk about all the awesome shit he did, rather than this becoming another Blizzard hate train? Seriously, we get it, but it doesn't mean every thread needs to be about it.
Why be sad, Theo has to do whats best for him, if he feels this is the best we should be happy, not sad.
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
On August 01 2013 08:40 Moochlol wrote: WCS claims another victim, GG blizzard, you are killing us.
Can we stop jumping the gun and let the man himself explain his reasoning first?
How am I jumping the gun, the man himself said he is done. If you don't think the format of WCS is toxic to the NA scene you are is denial.
What was there before WCS? Why does EU have truckloads of daily/weekly tournament and NA almost none? The root of the problem is not with the big tournaments only the big guns can win, but with small tournament people can make a name, some small money and reputation from.
Why do you think Dota 2 is doing to well? It has SO many events and things to watch all across EU. All of them are online, but no one gives a shit. But the instant we tried that here, its would "GSL is better".
On August 01 2013 08:40 Moochlol wrote: WCS claims another victim, GG blizzard, you are killing us.
Can we stop jumping the gun and let the man himself explain his reasoning first?
How am I jumping the gun, the man himself said he is done. If you don't think the format of WCS is toxic to the NA scene you are is denial.
'I'm not playing Starcraft anymore' does not equal 'I am not playing Starcraft because WCS NA' unless the guy actually lays out that as a contributory factor.
I was being facetious earlier, but I repeat myself, he could be wanting to make it on Broadway for all we know. Let people speak for themselves man.
On August 01 2013 08:46 ROOTNathanias wrote: Foreign scene loses one of the hardest-working players who spent over a year as a completely unknown player clawing for an opportunity because even with his dedication he couldn't afford to be a progamer. The scene is only going to become less and less sustainable for players like Theognis and Fuzer (two players that played WAY more than the average foreigner).
Maybe Totalbiscuit will win the lottery one day... a man can dream I suppose.
With one less Foreign Pro the Foreign Scene diminishes that little bit more.
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river. I don't blame people for bagging out and moving on. Its little pay, a hard fought battle for with a lot of room for failure and a ton of hate from a bitch community.
There is very little reward and a deluge of anonymous haters who only know of your existence because you are putting yourself out in the public light. Hollywood actors can struggle with this, so I can't imagine how hard it can be on gamers or those lesser known yet still experiencing the same levels of hate from entitled children on the internet.
On August 01 2013 08:40 Moochlol wrote: WCS claims another victim, GG blizzard, you are killing us.
Can we stop jumping the gun and let the man himself explain his reasoning first?
How am I jumping the gun, the man himself said he is done. If you don't think the format of WCS is toxic to the NA scene you are is denial.
'I'm not playing Starcraft anymore' does not equal 'I am not playing Starcraft because WCS NA' unless the guy actually lays out that as a contributory factor.
I was being facetious earlier, but I repeat myself, he could be wanting to make it on Broadway for all we know. Let people speak for themselves man.
Your right, we don't know, but given the current scene, its hard for me to imagine WCS not playing any role. He said he made up his mind b4 the matches were even played, but that doesn't mean he wasn't sour about the whole ordeal to begin with. I made a sensationalist post, but it comes from the heart. I was jumping the gun a bit >< lol
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
It's pretty sad really. For this reason I go out of my way to give positive crit on stuff I actually enjoy, although if I hadn't gone through the process myself I'm not so sure I would do so.
Positive/agreeable people stay silent and just assume that you are somewhere aware of their approval, and people with nothing better to do tear you to shreds.
WTF theo... Well I wish you the best of luck man, I hope you play some broodwar again, you were always Gosu in broodwar, GL theognis!! You are awesome player and awesome person.
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
It's pretty sad really. For this reason I go out of my way to give positive crit on stuff I actually enjoy, although if I hadn't gone through the process myself I'm not so sure I would do so.
Positive/agreeable people stay silent and just assume that you are somewhere aware of their approval, and people with nothing better to do tear you to shreds.
Really, Tasteless and Artosis have said it best when they say they don't even visit TL or look at community sites any more. I cant blame them. I think it is harming everyone, from players to event runners, trying to please the masses of the internet that only want to tear you down. I kinda long for the day when they ignore us and do whatever they want(like Valve).
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
It's pretty sad really. For this reason I go out of my way to give positive crit on stuff I actually enjoy, although if I hadn't gone through the process myself I'm not so sure I would do so.
Positive/agreeable people stay silent and just assume that you are somewhere aware of their approval, and people with nothing better to do tear you to shreds.
Because it's just so damn easy. And anon. The internet is every bit as evil as it is good, maybe if everyone was responsible for what they said, the internet would be a better place. Lets go NSA? lol
On a side note Unflitered hit on a lot of these points yesterday, it was a really interesting show.
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
It's pretty sad really. For this reason I go out of my way to give positive crit on stuff I actually enjoy, although if I hadn't gone through the process myself I'm not so sure I would do so.
Positive/agreeable people stay silent and just assume that you are somewhere aware of their approval, and people with nothing better to do tear you to shreds.
Really, Tasteless and Artosis have said it best when they say they don't even visit TL or look at community sites any more. I cant blame them. I think it is harming everyone, from players to event runners, trying to please the masses of the internet that only want to tear you down. I kinda long for the day when they ignore us and do whatever they want(like Valve).
It's a real shame in a way. If people weren't cunts, the likes of Twitch chat would actually be a unique source of bonding between the pros we admire and the people who follow them.
If I have to hear another 'it's the internet, deal with it' justification of cuntish behaviour that ruins potential avenues of interaction and discussion for everybody else with a modicum of decency and restraint I may go to my nearest mountain and scream from its peak.
Not a huge surprise given his recent results. It looked like he was starting to climb out of anonymity for a little bit but then he fell back down. Best of luck!
I was listening to "The Game Station" (its current name escapes me) Podcast and hearing Dodger and TB and Jesse talk about all of their true feelings about internet comments was pretty heartbreaking. They keep being told that its just random internet assholery, they should just accept the criticisms, but they can't help feeling down after awhile, the comments can't help but be taken to heart because YOU are the product.
Someone can rant about WCS and because its this abstract ...thing its okay it can't be hurt. People going on Twitter to send angry comments about a individual is really hard to take.
Now we are beginning to possibly see the flood of people out of gaming or at least the internet culture? I gotta say It effected me personally, don't want to admit who I was but I used to be very vocal on Twitter but the pain just got to me too much of the debating and reading all the bullshit and so I retired from the internet as a thing, I got my taste of eFame and it burned me.
I can't see many casters staying in it for very much longer, having HuK call your casting bad, being called out publically, I could see Robin and Kibbelz retire.
Anyway I really feel for Theognis here and think he's really headed for a better place, the internet is a cruel bitch.
On August 01 2013 07:52 Bayyne wrote: What's going on? It seems like everyday a thread pops up announcing the retirement of someone.
There is no real sustainability in Sc2 right now due to extremely high competition, very low prize money, no regional locks and little scene developement. Sc2 isn't exactly a viable career choice right now for anyone but the top players or best personalities and there is little to no growth happening to foster sc2 as a viable choice.
It's the nature of the beast, the game requires way to much effort for very little reward.
The Sc2 scene right now outside of the top is essentially like trying to make a living playing golf against tiger woods, it's skill you need to compete is just insane right now.
Not to mention people who do try in the NA scene get laughed at because of how underdeveloped our competitive gaming culture is.
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
It's pretty sad really. For this reason I go out of my way to give positive crit on stuff I actually enjoy, although if I hadn't gone through the process myself I'm not so sure I would do so.
Positive/agreeable people stay silent and just assume that you are somewhere aware of their approval, and people with nothing better to do tear you to shreds.
Really, Tasteless and Artosis have said it best when they say they don't even visit TL or look at community sites any more. I cant blame them. I think it is harming everyone, from players to event runners, trying to please the masses of the internet that only want to tear you down. I kinda long for the day when they ignore us and do whatever they want(like Valve).
It's a real shame in a way. If people weren't cunts, the likes of Twitch chat would actually be a unique source of bonding between the pros we admire and the people who follow them.
If I have to hear another 'it's the internet, deal with it' justification of cuntish behaviour that ruins potential avenues of interaction and discussion for everybody else with a modicum of decency and restraint I may go to my nearest mountain and scream from its peak.
The internet has literally been like this since it started I don't know what people expect, the price of fame is being in the public eye and when you are "internet famous" that public has an anonymous voice. It's not going to change.
I post youtube videos and never go back to them again because I realize that it's just going to be a shitfest no matter what my content is.
well he seems to be content with his decision, i'm sure it's a well thought out one. best of luck in your future endeavours, i wish you all the success you're hoping for!
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
It's pretty sad really. For this reason I go out of my way to give positive crit on stuff I actually enjoy, although if I hadn't gone through the process myself I'm not so sure I would do so.
Positive/agreeable people stay silent and just assume that you are somewhere aware of their approval, and people with nothing better to do tear you to shreds.
Really, Tasteless and Artosis have said it best when they say they don't even visit TL or look at community sites any more. I cant blame them. I think it is harming everyone, from players to event runners, trying to please the masses of the internet that only want to tear you down. I kinda long for the day when they ignore us and do whatever they want(like Valve).
It's a real shame in a way. If people weren't cunts, the likes of Twitch chat would actually be a unique source of bonding between the pros we admire and the people who follow them.
If I have to hear another 'it's the internet, deal with it' justification of cuntish behaviour that ruins potential avenues of interaction and discussion for everybody else with a modicum of decency and restraint I may go to my nearest mountain and scream from its peak.
The internet has literally been like this since it started I don't know what people expect, the price of fame is being in the public eye and when you are "internet famous" that public has an anonymous voice. It's not going to change.
I post youtube videos and never go back to them again because I realize that it's just going to be a shitfest no matter what my content is.
No it hasn't, at least not nearly as bad as it is now. In the earlier, less-centralised days the internet was a much more agreeable place to reside. I had a lot of experiences on it that I really can't see myself replicating on the current platforms of choice.
Without wanting to be a complete elitist (while being completely elitist admittedly) the problems spiralled when the uptake started to move towards being universal.
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
It's pretty sad really. For this reason I go out of my way to give positive crit on stuff I actually enjoy, although if I hadn't gone through the process myself I'm not so sure I would do so.
Positive/agreeable people stay silent and just assume that you are somewhere aware of their approval, and people with nothing better to do tear you to shreds.
Really, Tasteless and Artosis have said it best when they say they don't even visit TL or look at community sites any more. I cant blame them. I think it is harming everyone, from players to event runners, trying to please the masses of the internet that only want to tear you down. I kinda long for the day when they ignore us and do whatever they want(like Valve).
It's a real shame in a way. If people weren't cunts, the likes of Twitch chat would actually be a unique source of bonding between the pros we admire and the people who follow them.
If I have to hear another 'it's the internet, deal with it' justification of cuntish behaviour that ruins potential avenues of interaction and discussion for everybody else with a modicum of decency and restraint I may go to my nearest mountain and scream from its peak.
The internet has literally been like this since it started I don't know what people expect, the price of fame is being in the public eye and when you are "internet famous" that public has an anonymous voice. It's not going to change.
I post youtube videos and never go back to them again because I realize that it's just going to be a shitfest no matter what my content is.
No it hasn't, at least not nearly as bad as it is now. In the earlier, less-centralised days the internet was a much more agreeable place to reside. I had a lot of experiences on it that I really can't see myself replicating on the current platforms of choice.
Without wanting to be a complete elitist (while being completely elitist admittedly) the problems spiralled when the uptake started to move towards being universal.
Yes... it has... the only difference is more people = more assholes.
There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
On August 01 2013 08:18 -Kyo- wrote: I think I replied first... so second reply.. don't hate me D: ! I doubt he is quitting because of that person or any other hater. It's troubling as a player but I don't think that's what drives most people to their choice. I'm sure he put a lot more thought into it than that. It's up to him if he wants to say anything more or not, though.
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
It's pretty sad really. For this reason I go out of my way to give positive crit on stuff I actually enjoy, although if I hadn't gone through the process myself I'm not so sure I would do so.
Positive/agreeable people stay silent and just assume that you are somewhere aware of their approval, and people with nothing better to do tear you to shreds.
Really, Tasteless and Artosis have said it best when they say they don't even visit TL or look at community sites any more. I cant blame them. I think it is harming everyone, from players to event runners, trying to please the masses of the internet that only want to tear you down. I kinda long for the day when they ignore us and do whatever they want(like Valve).
It's a real shame in a way. If people weren't cunts, the likes of Twitch chat would actually be a unique source of bonding between the pros we admire and the people who follow them.
If I have to hear another 'it's the internet, deal with it' justification of cuntish behaviour that ruins potential avenues of interaction and discussion for everybody else with a modicum of decency and restraint I may go to my nearest mountain and scream from its peak.
The internet has literally been like this since it started I don't know what people expect, the price of fame is being in the public eye and when you are "internet famous" that public has an anonymous voice. It's not going to change.
I post youtube videos and never go back to them again because I realize that it's just going to be a shitfest no matter what my content is.
No it hasn't, at least not nearly as bad as it is now. In the earlier, less-centralised days the internet was a much more agreeable place to reside. I had a lot of experiences on it that I really can't see myself replicating on the current platforms of choice.
Without wanting to be a complete elitist (while being completely elitist admittedly) the problems spiralled when the uptake started to move towards being universal.
I feel like you weren't that active on the internet back then because if anything it was worse because no one was "saving esports" and everyone just hated everyone.
There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
I make more money going to school full time(government pays living allowance for students) than most pro gamers and that's just extremely sad.
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
On August 01 2013 09:35 SpecialistSc wrote: fundamentally, all these misfortunes come from blizzard's terrible WCS format
False. The root of the problem was the same before WCS. What tournaments were NA players going to win to sustain themselves before WCS that they can't now?
We need a players union to force teams to pay their players a certain amount (a minimum salary, say $40k a year). And to play in tournaments the teams must have their players be part of the union (like kespa). Then esports will be like regular sports and be more stable. Many teams will not be able to afford paying their players this, which is good because it gets rid of the huge influx of mediocre pro players and poorly managed teams.
I really like his level-headed personality on Meta the times he was on it. A bit of a shame I knew next to nothing of him pre-HOTS =\. In any case, all the best to you TheOgnis, hopefully you'll stop by the LR threads!
On August 01 2013 09:49 L0L wrote: We need a players union to force teams to pay their players a certain amount (a minimum salary, say $40k a year). And to play in tournaments the teams must have their players be part of the union (like kespa). Then esports will be like regular sports and be more stable. Many teams will not be able to afford paying their players this, which is good because it gets rid of the huge influx of mediocre pro players and poorly managed teams.
I, too, support a scene composed of EG, SKT1, Flash, and maybe some TL members.
On August 01 2013 09:49 L0L wrote: We need a players union to force teams to pay their players a certain amount (a minimum salary, say $40k a year). And to play in tournaments the teams must have their players be part of the union (like kespa). Then esports will be like regular sports and be more stable. Many teams will not be able to afford paying their players this, which is good because it gets rid of the huge influx of mediocre pro players and poorly managed teams.
The problem with this is the US is such a vast country, just traveling costs serious money. Compared to KR we would have to need huge houses (To hold big teams of people) to generate enough brain power and really yield some sick new talent/grow the old. And to this point we would need a-lot of teams doing this. We would literally need a mini Seoul and we just don't have one. The closest thing would be to huddle on SF @ this point btw. KR has a lot of time doing this compared to USA. Look @ the state of the current scene, are we really growing our players? I don't think so. Letting people just play on NA ladder isn't doing shit for skill. The only NA team that even is coming close to doing this atm is ROOT. But hey I have my doubts, something people need to learn is yes this is a 1v1 game, and that's not the best thing for issues like these. But we need to work TOGETHER to beat them, because they work together to beat each other......and us by de facto.
PS. In an interview with Puck he was asked if he was practicing with his peers, he said no. I feel like this is not a good sign, it just seems like the same old shit. I want see the skill level of NA as a whole rise up, its wishful thinking I guess.This is me just being a stick in the mud, but i'm just really sad right now for SC2 ><.
sad to hear, but if you're not feeling it, may as well move on. if you put half the dedication you put into sc2 into anything you do, Im sure things will turn out badass
I was basing it off of the linked tweet, figuring the one he replied to was the first reply to him. No hate for you
I don't think it is any one person specifically, nor do I think it is the only reason or even the largest reason behind his decision. I'm guessing it is a combo of his results and where he thinks he could improve to. I know he has been putting a lot of effort in lately, so it is sad to see him choose this now, but perhaps he thought he plateaued. Having haters on top of all that definitely does not help.
If you want another look at the whole internet hate thing, Penny Arcade did a good article on it recently:
You can replace "creatives" with "progamers" and its about the same thing. The modern internet sucks and slowly wears at people like a stone in the river.
100% agreed.
I was trying to do some musical stuff, and got pretty good feedback from my nearest and dearest. I went on the internet, sticking up stuff in which I would clearly label it, you know stuff I'd done guitars/bass tracking for, vocals and programmed the rest, and mixed it myself.
I would entitle it (slightly exaggerating) 'Some formative unfinished ideas that I have mixed badly because I can only be proficient in quite so many areas, that I'd like to share'.
Replies such as 'This sucks, it doesn't sound like the stuff on the radio' and 'Learn to mix faggot' are REALLY fucking wearing when you go out of your way to point out in the fucking UPLOAD INFO that it's very much a work in progress.
I don't even expose TL to my girlfriend's youtube page for her drumming, because I know what would happen. I don't even look at the comments any more because I want to hunt people down afterwords. The internet is a terrible place for anyone trying create anything.
It's pretty sad really. For this reason I go out of my way to give positive crit on stuff I actually enjoy, although if I hadn't gone through the process myself I'm not so sure I would do so.
Positive/agreeable people stay silent and just assume that you are somewhere aware of their approval, and people with nothing better to do tear you to shreds.
Really, Tasteless and Artosis have said it best when they say they don't even visit TL or look at community sites any more. I cant blame them. I think it is harming everyone, from players to event runners, trying to please the masses of the internet that only want to tear you down. I kinda long for the day when they ignore us and do whatever they want(like Valve).
It's a real shame in a way. If people weren't cunts, the likes of Twitch chat would actually be a unique source of bonding between the pros we admire and the people who follow them.
If I have to hear another 'it's the internet, deal with it' justification of cuntish behaviour that ruins potential avenues of interaction and discussion for everybody else with a modicum of decency and restraint I may go to my nearest mountain and scream from its peak.
The internet has literally been like this since it started I don't know what people expect, the price of fame is being in the public eye and when you are "internet famous" that public has an anonymous voice. It's not going to change.
I post youtube videos and never go back to them again because I realize that it's just going to be a shitfest no matter what my content is.
No it hasn't, at least not nearly as bad as it is now. In the earlier, less-centralised days the internet was a much more agreeable place to reside. I had a lot of experiences on it that I really can't see myself replicating on the current platforms of choice.
Without wanting to be a complete elitist (while being completely elitist admittedly) the problems spiralled when the uptake started to move towards being universal.
I feel like you weren't that active on the internet back then because if anything it was worse because no one was "saving esports" and everyone just hated everyone.
There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
I make more money going to school full time(government pays living allowance for students) than most pro gamers and that's just extremely sad.
Oh I was, I maybe had a different mentality back then which is perfectly possible as well.
Agreed fully on the desirability of being a progamer, ESPECIALLY as despite not being well-paid, you don't exactly make that back up in positivity coming back at you from the community.
On August 01 2013 09:49 L0L wrote: We need a players union to force teams to pay their players a certain amount (a minimum salary, say $40k a year). And to play in tournaments the teams must have their players be part of the union (like kespa). Then esports will be like regular sports and be more stable. Many teams will not be able to afford paying their players this, which is good because it gets rid of the huge influx of mediocre pro players and poorly managed teams.
sounds like a good idea, but far and far away from reality
40k/yr would every player go pro if they can =) most pros make less than that I believe
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job.
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job.
Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit. You think people like TB will stop doing this for a living? Get real. TB Makes content for people who enjoy content about video games, how is streaming any different. Don't pigeon hole yourself and its totally do-able lifestyle.
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job.
Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit.
You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol.
On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums .
I feel like TheOgnis is essentially being a man by making the decision almost every other American pro is going to make sooner or later. TheOgnis was a player who was decently competitive, but at the end of the day, him getting top 8 in any major tournament would be a giant shocker. He was bound to the NA scene without any real hopes of getting anywhere else. We all know the types who are in his boat. I'm at least glad to see him man up and admit when its over and not going anywhere. I feel really bad for the others who are still in denial
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job.
Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit.
You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol.
On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums .
That's exactly my point, to succeed you need to be entertaining people........what is wrong with what i said. If you do something for money and can afford to LIVE how is that not a job. And what does that have to do with me calling out someone for pulling BS numbers from their ass wtf!
PS. Job: Noun A paid position of regular employment.
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job.
Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit.
You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol.
On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums .
That's exactly my point, to succeed you need to be entertaining people........what is wrong with what i said. If you do something for money and can afford to LIVE how is that not a job. And what does that have to do with me calling out someone for pulling BS numbers from their ass wtf!
Because it is relying on the intangibles of being a 'personality' to be successful.
When you get to that stage, sure it is a job, but to rely on it and pursue something so inherently risky and on such a weak foundation is a terrible idea.
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job.
Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit.
You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol.
On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums .
That's exactly my point, to succeed you need to be entertaining people........what is wrong with what i said. If you do something for money and can afford to LIVE how is that not a job. And what does that have to do with me calling out someone for pulling BS numbers from their ass wtf!
Because it is relying on the intangibles of being a 'personality' to be successful.
When you get to that stage, sure it is a job, but to rely on it and pursue something so inherently risky and on such a weak foundation is a terrible idea.
Doing something you love and getting paid for it is so terrible I forgot that everyone should conform to the "norm" and just 9-5. Most likely @ a job they do not enjoy. I really don't get how being an online entertainer is really all that risky. You can still have a part time job to pay the bills until your channel takes off or doesn't... Do I think playing SC2 in NA while just trying to profit from tourney results is profitable? Hell no, that's why I sight entertainers instead because I think it's much more realistic. Maximus and Destiny, are some people I used in my examples because they ARE the norm for the people I think who have it "right". Just look @ Day9 he eats sleeps and breaths video games atm. Does he have anything to fall back on hell yes he does! But that's part of any good life plan...
I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job.
Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit.
You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol.
On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums .
That's exactly my point, to succeed you need to be entertaining people........what is wrong with what i said. If you do something for money and can afford to LIVE how is that not a job. And what does that have to do with me calling out someone for pulling BS numbers from their ass wtf!
Because it is relying on the intangibles of being a 'personality' to be successful.
When you get to that stage, sure it is a job, but to rely on it and pursue something so inherently risky and on such a weak foundation is a terrible idea.
Doing something you love and getting paid for it is so terrible I forgot that everyone should conform to the "norm" and just 9-5. Most likely @ a job they do not enjoy. I really don't get how being an online entertainer is really all that risky. You can still have a part time job to pay the bills until your channel takes off or doesn't... Do I think playing SC2 in NA while just trying to profit from tourney results is profitable? Hell no, that's why I sight entertainers instead because I think it's much more realistic. Maximus and Destiny, are some people I used in my examples because they ARE the norm for the people I think who have it "right". Just look @ Day9 he eats sleeps and breaths video games atm. Does he have anything to fall back on hell yes he does! But that's part of any good life plan...
Trying to make money from tournaments is at least something within your control. You get better at the game, you increase your potential earning.
There seems no 'formula' to being a successful streamer, so much of it is blind luck or being in the right place and a specific point in time.
Do it by all means, don't pin your hopes on it working out. Same with trying to make it in music, or anything else that requires the endorsement of fellow humans.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
On August 01 2013 09:41 Phanekim wrote: There's no money in being a gamer. Plain and simple. You dont' get enough back for what you put in. You got guys who stream 12 hours a day and true they make more than walmart, but does that look good on a resume?
Maybe its my experience in poker but it leaves you with little options when the game dies or moves pass you (people get better). Its better to invest your time in something that can sustain.
Look @ people like Maximus or Destiny, will they stop doing what they do if their game dies? I don't buy that, streaming video games is an emergent REAL JOB with risk and reward. If your plan is bad then you will fail. If you are trying to get sick money from playing on NA without trying to be popular in the scene, well good luck with that son. But I think if you play your cards right, it's every bit sustainable as anything else. Just build your brand.
There is like 15 people out of a few hundred million making a living off streaming... That's not a real job.
Where did you get those numbers mang? Prolly rhymes with grass. Remember streaming is only PART of it. What about donations, youtube, twitter and facebook exposure. Not to mention you don't need to only play sc2 bro. It's called broadcasting. Wiki that shit.
You also happened to say that being an entertainer in a new form is a "real emerging job" when being an entertainer is in now way a new thing, and neither is the medium since streaming is pretty much like TV except more grassroots. You also picked two people who are the exception, and not the rule, and then call that guy out for pulling numbers out of his ass lol.
On topic, Theognis will be missed, he was a really cool guy on the TL forums .
That's exactly my point, to succeed you need to be entertaining people........what is wrong with what i said. If you do something for money and can afford to LIVE how is that not a job. And what does that have to do with me calling out someone for pulling BS numbers from their ass wtf!
Because it is relying on the intangibles of being a 'personality' to be successful.
When you get to that stage, sure it is a job, but to rely on it and pursue something so inherently risky and on such a weak foundation is a terrible idea.
Doing something you love and getting paid for it is so terrible I forgot that everyone should conform to the "norm" and just 9-5. Most likely @ a job they do not enjoy. I really don't get how being an online entertainer is really all that risky. You can still have a part time job to pay the bills until your channel takes off or doesn't... Do I think playing SC2 in NA while just trying to profit from tourney results is profitable? Hell no, that's why I sight entertainers instead because I think it's much more realistic. Maximus and Destiny, are some people I used in my examples because they ARE the norm for the people I think who have it "right". Just look @ Day9 he eats sleeps and breaths video games atm. Does he have anything to fall back on hell yes he does! But that's part of any good life plan...
Trying to make money from tournaments is at least something within your control. You get better at the game, you increase your potential earning.
There seems no 'formula' to being a successful streamer, so much of it is blind luck or being in the right place and a specific point in time.
Do it by all means, don't pin your hopes on it working out. Same with trying to make it in music, or anything else that requires the endorsement of fellow humans.
It can work out, it's not a reliable approach.
I think one can find a formula, Off the top of my head I think its a combination of natural entertaining talent (learning to entertain through social interaction). Hard work, charisma, skill, devotion so many other factors! Some people have it and some don't. Just like music, some people think they got it, but the people have to want what you are making. You have to make sure what you are producing is good! If it's not then obv you have delusions, this happens a lot with music and other things. You just cant all in nam sayin? Be responsible about it, and honestly i think its just fine, especially if you really fucking love it. Which is really the most important thing. Money is bullshit. If you can support yourself and whatever else you gotta support, then i call that being a fucking boss, and not a sheep. Is some if it luck, like starting when something is hot sure it does, but that's YOUR call to go in on what you think has potential, if you look @ sc2 right now its hard to make that call.
On August 01 2013 10:50 Mohdoo wrote: I feel like TheOgnis is essentially being a man by making the decision almost every other American pro is going to make sooner or later. TheOgnis was a player who was decently competitive, but at the end of the day, him getting top 8 in any major tournament would be a giant shocker. He was bound to the NA scene without any real hopes of getting anywhere else. We all know the types who are in his boat. I'm at least glad to see him man up and admit when its over and not going anywhere. I feel really bad for the others who are still in denial
Every foreigner is in his boat, and thats why sc2 will collapse shortly. Sorry to be one of 'those guys', but a scene cant survive beyond a niche market in a niche market, without familiar personalities, people who you can empathize with, people to inspire you to try 'it' [at the very least consistent engagement in the community, if not an attempt at progaming] out as well. That cant happen with 99% of people being Korean. And this was always going to happen because we dont have proper incentives for foreign players, and everyone rejected the only means to create those incentives, such as American only [etc] regional leagues.
Theo had more raw talent than almost any other player on NA. I still remember watching him fuck around on a Master account on EU while drunk. It was ranked like 70 so I expected him to be matching masters. Only he was crushing top 16 gms cross server with ease...
This smells of tilt. I mean he committed so much of himself to the game the last year. So so sad if true.
Best of luck Theo. A late night ladder hero.
Edit:
Also, I blame the Koreans. It's ridiculous that the wcs na qualifiers have code a and code s level koreans. They aren't giving ANY NA talent the chance to shine. Shame on blizzard.
It's a dog eat dog world. Some people make it, some don't. Not everyone can succeed. Personally, I was a fan of his and always rooted for him, but I'm not going to blame Blizzard. Either sacrifice everything you have in life for your dreams, or don't... but don't blame Blizzard.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck i'd choose games over something that even decent money. Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck id choose games over something that even paid more! Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. Then what the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
Desiring to have enough money to live independently doesn't equal being materialistic.
They're not making a decision between spending on excesses, or doing what they love, but between struggling to afford the basics without outside help and pursuing their careers as gamers.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck id choose games over something that even paid more! Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
You just missed the entire point that only those 50 make minimum wage, the rest make pocket change.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
I think that would be possible if it wasn't the reality these days that an NA progamer has to compete with Koreans that practice ~10 hours a day. It's simply not possible to be both things in this current environment. That's my feeling anyways, maybe some amazing person could be capable of running a YouTube channel, streaming every day and winning WCS matches.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck id choose games over something that even paid more! Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. Then what the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
Desiring to have enough money to live independently doesn't equal being materialistic.
They're not making a decision between spending on excesses, or doing what they love, but between struggling to afford the basics without outside help and pursuing their careers as gamers.
Well yea man, if you are having a hard time making ends meet, then gtfo! Its the right move! I was trying to make a point that if you can independently sustain yourself though your channel, then that is all gravy! Going above and beyond to try to bank crazy amounts of money in this industry would be hard reach most definitely.
@Mooch. I don't care about personalities though, if I wanted to have a conversation with a witty urbane person I'd start up a conversation with myself. I enjoy the competitive side of the game, it's why it's E-sports and not E-chatshow or something.
There's so much talent in this scene, both at the game and at other activities that it pains me to see how it is structured at present and how many of these people are invested wholeheartedly into it.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck id choose games over something that even paid more! Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
You just missed the entire point that only those 50 make minimum wage, the rest make pocket change.
Again coming out with this minimum wage thing, where are you getting these numbers, can you post a source? You know what Demu or Idra or Maximus or Destiny, or any popular streamer makes? I have not seen a public statement...please enlighten us. Ill be glad to see it. My overall point is that playing solely as a competitive gamer in SC2 in NA is pretty fucking ruff (Blizz not making it any better without region locking) and I would not be surprised if they average minimum wage. This is why i'm arguing that pulling back from the competitive side and focusing more on entertainment is the smarter choice. Again it comes down to what that person wants to do. If they have to pull out because it's not sustainable then whatever it is what it is. If they don't want to entertain, and try to live purely off winnings from this scene, then imo that's the RISKY choice. But hey do what you want right.
It's the smart choice for certain individuals. However, most probably got into competitive gaming for competitive reasons, because that's a fire at the core of their psyche, if it shifts that way, it's no longer an E-sport title, just a title that people stream with webcams with.
I mean, personally I'd genuinely rather work in Walmart or our UK equivalent than have to stream many hours a day and interact with the community. If somebody gave me the chance to pay for my expenses and let me try to make it as a player, or as a caster I'd grasp that with both hands. I find those activities fun/engaging, dealing with people not so much.
On August 01 2013 11:39 Wombat_NI wrote: @Mooch. I don't care about personalities though, if I wanted to have a conversation with a witty urbane person I'd start up a conversation with myself. I enjoy the competitive side of the game, it's why it's E-sports and not E-chatshow or something.
There's so much talent in this scene, both at the game and at other activities that it pains me to see how it is structured at present and how many of these people are invested wholeheartedly into it.
Yea sure, The way things are pains me as well. I don't know what we are even talking about @ this point. Somehow I got involved in talking about this but its been a blur. I am really sad about the foreign SC2 ESPORTS scene as well. But you cant ignore that a lot of people are into the entertainment side of things as well as purely tourney stuff. Like my perfect streamer doesn't exist, one that would be competitive yet really entertaining @ the same time. Like Maximus is really fun out of game, but when he plays he just bores me to death. Destiny left sc2 and was one of my fav's back in the day but I just cant get into LOL. And well the closest thing would be Demu for me, but hes a little too PC and bland ( No hype) for my taste, not that I blame him hes on EG and cant really go crazy. And well idra......its old getting old brosif. I really believe you cannot entertain and try to play this game seriously, its just too much. Which is why i prefer a little bit of both, more entertainment than competition, yet I still enjoy when the people try to show good games, with some actual skill. I find myself watching less and less tournaments as time goes by. WCS just leaves a bad taste in my mouth at the moment.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck i'd choose games over something that even decent money. Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
I don't think you understand the fact that you have a 99% chance of never making a dime off streaming unless you get extremely lucky and even then you aren't guaranteed to make much money. Actually judging by your posts I am convinced you think making money streaming is an entertaining personality away which couldn't be more wrong.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
I think that would be possible if it wasn't the reality these days that an NA progamer has to compete with Koreans that practice ~10 hours a day. It's simply not possible to be both things in this current environment. That's my feeling anyways, maybe some amazing person could be capable of running a YouTube channel, streaming every day and winning WCS matches.
Yea man I agree, its ruff as hell. How can you really do both is my argument. Given the way shit is, Korea and all. No region locking, WCS mismanagement and a general waning interest in SC2 as a game.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck i'd choose games over something that even decent money. Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
I don't think you understand the fact that you have a 99% chance of never making a dime off streaming unless you get extremely lucky and even then you aren't guaranteed to make much money. Actually judging by your posts I am convinced you think making money streaming is an entertaining personality away which couldn't be more wrong.
Random statistics AGAIN! And your last sentence could use a nice edit, so I could respond to it.
On August 01 2013 12:03 Doodsmack wrote: lol @ Mooch's troll...I'm sad I responded to it twice. Maybe I should gift you TL+ just for that.
Didn't know I was trolling, thanks for letting me know.../sarcasm I honestly don't get some of you guys sometimes. Whatever, I said what I wanted to say somewhat. I'm done battling to get my points across. Lets just hope for the best (for the foreign scene). I'm curious to see a real statement from Theo however. Thanks for the conversation fellas awkward as always here on the interwebs.
I could use a new word besides "retiring." I associate it too strongly with normal age retirement (55 or 65); I think about playing golf, throwing in the towel, getting old, etc. Granted, 30 year old progamers are kind of old for it, and TheOgnis is throwing in the towel, but he's still got plenty of life ahead
I grew to like him watching that meta (Artosis's show) episode, but didn't know much before. GL
Oh mah God! I thought he was actually starting to shine a bit. This really makes me sad for the NA scene. I hope he'll be on at least one more episode of Meta to explain some of this.
I don't care if I am hated for this, but I knew something like this would happen. TheOgnis has always been a whiner. When the 4 range roach patch came out, he blocked me on SC 2 (we used to practice together occassionally) because I didn't agree with him that the new 4 range roach was unbeatable in ZvT. He was literally arguing that David Kim didn't think the roach range patch through and now Terran as a race is doomed. He isn't even that great at this game, GM on NA sure, but that is about it. I don't know why anyone ever liked the guy. I hope in his life he finds what he wants, but this game doesn't seem for him.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck id choose games over something that even paid more! Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
You just missed the entire point that only those 50 make minimum wage, the rest make pocket change.
There are thousands making a very nice living from streaming, and youtube. I suppose you don't venture to other games, and such. WoW, speedrunning, fighting games, hack n slash, league, all various communities make comfortable livings off of twitch. You can become a popular streamer quite easily if you think about a plan, and put it into effect. Either way, I loved Theogbro, sad he's gone.
In terms of the money situation, let's get real here. According to Aligulac, Theognis is currently #379 in the world. I'd say that's pretty fair. Now let's look at a sport like tennis, which probably has at least 10 times as much money coming in from sponsors, fans, etc. as SC2 has. The #379 ranked male tennis player is a guy called Chase Buchanan. Does anyone want to know how much Chase has made this year? $7,697. His career earnings look better, but most of them come from qualifiers or wild cards into the US Open, an event which on its own makes several times more money than the entire SC2 scene. I'm sorry, the SC2 scene just isn't at the point where players like Theo can expect to get serious money.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck id choose games over something that even paid more! Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
You just missed the entire point that only those 50 make minimum wage, the rest make pocket change.
There are thousands making a very nice living from streaming, and youtube. I suppose you don't venture to other games, and such. WoW, speedrunning, fighting games, hack n slash, league, all various communities make comfortable livings off of twitch. You can become a popular streamer quite easily if you think about a plan, and put it into effect. Either way, I loved Theogbro, sad he's gone.
TY Glad i'm not the only one who thought that was a very close minded statement.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck id choose games over something that even paid more! Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
You just missed the entire point that only those 50 make minimum wage, the rest make pocket change.
There are thousands making a very nice living from streaming, and youtube. I suppose you don't venture to other games, and such. WoW, speedrunning, fighting games, hack n slash, league, all various communities make comfortable livings off of twitch. You can become a popular streamer quite easily if you think about a plan, and put it into effect. Either way, I loved Theogbro, sad he's gone.
TY Glad i'm not the only one who thought that was a very close minded statement.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck id choose games over something that even paid more! Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
You just missed the entire point that only those 50 make minimum wage, the rest make pocket change.
There are thousands making a very nice living from streaming, and youtube. I suppose you don't venture to other games, and such. WoW, speedrunning, fighting games, hack n slash, league, all various communities make comfortable livings off of twitch. You can become a popular streamer quite easily if you think about a plan, and put it into effect. Either way, I loved Theogbro, sad he's gone.
TY Glad i'm not the only one who thought that was a very close minded statement.
They're not Starcraft are they?
I'm sorry I wasn't talking about Starcraft only. Hence the Destiny/Maximus References. I'm not that ignorant to ignore that gamer's make money from OTHER games...cmon dawg. Did you really think I was talking purely about SC2 in terms of being an entertainer? I made many references to other games, sources of income blah blah @ one point I even said its important to not corner yourself into one game. And does it really matter that they're not starcraft? It's all the same shit in the end, streaming video games. Or producing content for people who like to consume said content.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck id choose games over something that even paid more! Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
You just missed the entire point that only those 50 make minimum wage, the rest make pocket change.
There are thousands making a very nice living from streaming, and youtube. I suppose you don't venture to other games, and such. WoW, speedrunning, fighting games, hack n slash, league, all various communities make comfortable livings off of twitch. You can become a popular streamer quite easily if you think about a plan, and put it into effect. Either way, I loved Theogbro, sad he's gone.
TY Glad i'm not the only one who thought that was a very close minded statement.
They're not Starcraft are they?
I'm sorry I wasn't talking about Starcraft only. Hence the Destiny/Maximus References. I'm not that ignorant to ignore that gamer's make money from OTHER games...cmon dawg. Did you really think I was talking purely about SC2 in terms of being an entertainer? I made many references to other games, sources of income blah blah @ one point I even said its important to not corner yourself into one game. And does it really matter that they are other games? It's all the same shit in the end, streaming video games.
No it isn't, because your rationale behind even pursuing the gaming thing as a job is the passion for the game.
Passion for SC2 does not = passion for other games, it can do but not necessarily.
Sad to hear, Micheal we've played starcraft together since the good ole days of Brood War and have recently got back in touch after a long time. Definitely sad to see you go and now we cant drink in November together
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck id choose games over something that even paid more! Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
You just missed the entire point that only those 50 make minimum wage, the rest make pocket change.
There are thousands making a very nice living from streaming, and youtube. I suppose you don't venture to other games, and such. WoW, speedrunning, fighting games, hack n slash, league, all various communities make comfortable livings off of twitch. You can become a popular streamer quite easily if you think about a plan, and put it into effect. Either way, I loved Theogbro, sad he's gone.
TY Glad i'm not the only one who thought that was a very close minded statement.
They're not Starcraft are they?
I'm sorry I wasn't talking about Starcraft only. Hence the Destiny/Maximus References. I'm not that ignorant to ignore that gamer's make money from OTHER games...cmon dawg. Did you really think I was talking purely about SC2 in terms of being an entertainer? I made many references to other games, sources of income blah blah @ one point I even said its important to not corner yourself into one game. And does it really matter that they are other games? It's all the same shit in the end, streaming video games.
No it isn't, because your rationale behind even pursuing the gaming thing as a job is the passion for the game.
Passion for SC2 does not = passion for other games, it can do but not necessarily.
What? My passion for SC2 means I cannot be passionate about other games? What does that even mean. If I want to be an entertainer in SC2 sure ill play SC2, but the same thing that makes an entertainer popular in SC is basically what makes anyone successful in streaming gaming content.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck id choose games over something that even paid more! Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
You just missed the entire point that only those 50 make minimum wage, the rest make pocket change.
There are thousands making a very nice living from streaming, and youtube. I suppose you don't venture to other games, and such. WoW, speedrunning, fighting games, hack n slash, league, all various communities make comfortable livings off of twitch. You can become a popular streamer quite easily if you think about a plan, and put it into effect. Either way, I loved Theogbro, sad he's gone.
TY Glad i'm not the only one who thought that was a very close minded statement.
They're not Starcraft are they?
I'm sorry I wasn't talking about Starcraft only. Hence the Destiny/Maximus References. I'm not that ignorant to ignore that gamer's make money from OTHER games...cmon dawg. Did you really think I was talking purely about SC2 in terms of being an entertainer? I made many references to other games, sources of income blah blah @ one point I even said its important to not corner yourself into one game. And does it really matter that they are other games? It's all the same shit in the end, streaming video games.
No it isn't, because your rationale behind even pursuing the gaming thing as a job is the passion for the game.
Passion for SC2 does not = passion for other games, it can do but not necessarily.
What? Nevermind. Not even worth it.
I like progressive metal music and jazz. It's quite a niche thing, hard to make money from. Somebody suggests that I make RnB music in the style of Rihanna because I can make money. 'It's all music right?'
@ izmatic Bro these people just try to rip you apart. I'm not the kind of person to let my points get shit on, taken out of context and spun in ways unintended. So I tried to fight back, to make myself clear. Obv that is a hard task here on TL. I'm sorry I even bothered @ this point. If it seemed i'm trying to hijack this thread that was not my intention.
I kind of feel like after the whole Destiny spaz moment which lead to him switching to LoL, that it was like a Trending standpoint that was set. From there people have been noticed for rage retiring more, and more with it getting pointed out.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck i'd choose games over something that even decent money. Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
This is the most digusting post I have read in a while. No offense, but I truly believe you do not pay anything important in life ( food, clothing, rent), to say that you'd play games all day instead of doing something that pays.
Except the KESPA Koreans during the BW years , those who actually WIN tournaments, and the big LoL streamers who gets 20k viewers when streaming, no one makes a decent living out of E-sports.
On August 01 2013 11:07 AKIRADEATH wrote: I just don't get why we're discussing professional streamers in a thread about a retiring progamer. Destiny and Maximus aren't progamers.
I don't imagine progamers who want to be competitive in today's scene have the time to try and also be a streamer of that caliber. They turn on their stream for some ladder games, but a lot of real practice needs to be done offstream.
Well the reason I am arguing this is because I feel like most NA players are just missing a piece of the pie if they are not the TOP TOP TOP players, and feel to ignore the entertainment side of things, is just always going to result in retirement. Not to take anything away from what Theo did, dude played some sick games, and if he had fun doing it and feels its time to move on then so be it. He hasn't made an official statement so like i don't really know the real deal of why he quit. I can only assume its income related/life goals and whatever other personal stuff he may have with the game ie burnout and shit like that.
Trust me bros streaming is a legit job, it's just like Walmart, you compete against thousands or millions of others for 50 or less slots paying minimum wage.
Give me the choice of making minimum wage @ fucking Walmart or playing games, ill choose games 100%. Fuck i'd choose games over something that even decent money. Buying cars and excess bullshit just doesn't seem right to me, and in fact most people are so fixated on money. You know why? Because that's what the man wants you to do. Society forces these ideas of excess income on people. If you can support yourself, ya know eating, being clothed, roof over your head, not living in shit conditions. What in the actual fuck is wrong with that. Do you really put materialism over happiness? If so that's sad brah.
This is the most digusting post I have read in a while. No offense, but I truly believe you do not pay anything important in life ( food, clothing, rent), to say that you'd play games all day instead of doing something that pays.
Except the KESPA Koreans during the BW years , those who actually WIN tournaments, and the big LoL streamers who gets 20k viewers when streaming, no one makes a decent living out of E-sports.
LOL WTF! You say my post is the most disgusting thing you have read in awhile. Say no offense then proceed to assume I am some kid living in my parents basement or something. For your information. I'm 29, I live by myself in an apartment working a shit 9-5 job @ a Sam Ash music store selling audio equipment. I have an degree in recording engineering and am currently working some side jobs doing PA setup for live shows, I live by myself in an apartment, what the fuck is your problem. I was trying to say if I had to choose between working @ Walmart or playing games for a living for the same wage I would play games. Anything else you want to know about me? My first name? Where I live? Or do you just want to assume some bullshit and try to flame me for no reason.
Are you concerned that I don't value expensive cars and things of that nature in my life? Are you one of those super money fanatics that thinks only about how much people make? I need money to live. So I do what I have to do to make it. I am seeking one of my current goals (Mixing music for a studio) while grinding in fucking retail so I can afford to do the things I am responsible for. Like paying for my school loans and everything else that costs money in this world. Whatever your distorted stance is on people streaming for a living, keep it to yourself. this is either a troll or you are honestly just a dick.
Why don't you tell me some shit about yourself since you are so interested in what i'm doing. What do you do for a living to look down on people with such disgust if they play games for money. My discussions were about streaming for entertainment verses being strait up pro in the NA scene. I'm pretty sure Maximus has bought a house. Sounds likes he's doing just fine.
My discussions were not about "esports" only........Who are you to judge, if someone enjoys playing games and they make enough money to support themselves, what is wrong with that. Are you saying all the entertainers on twitch/youtube who make a living from it are disgusting? Or are you just doing that assuming thing again and thinking of only ESPORTS.
I am sure that he have very good reasons to quit, and it's always sad to see someone go, (especially a foreign Terran) I am sure it's a wise decision of him. It seems like living as a SC2 pro gamer, is extremely difficult if you don't have the right circumstances, or isn't one of the best players in the world.
who the heck is nakseo and why should I care if he's retired?
he's just trying to be snoody and holier-than-thou for caring so deeply about statistics while the rest of the peons only talk about the pros that hang out on podcasts.
While seeing players retire isn't ever really a happy situation, I feel like losing Theognis isn't that detrimental to the NA scene. Sure he beat Jaedong in challenger league but besides that he literally no other results. Saying the NA scene is doomed because of his retirement is a little crazy.
Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
On August 01 2013 16:58 magicallypuzzled wrote: I follow the scene religiously I am well aware who monster is/was and see no reason to care at all that he's retired.
There are reasons, you mightn't share them but they're there.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Sorry, but I just don't see the legitimacy of that comment... The hellbat WAS totally OP, I hated TvT for being reduced to a mere hellbat drop feast, they nerfed it rightfully and now I feel TvT has become versatile again and that's all I need: A variety of builds/unit comps I can choose from, that doesn't really go for TvZ or TvP.
People have to get used to metagame shifts all the time and I'm pretty sure they will eventually, since it isn't even THAT groundbreaking imho.
Poor Catz... He didn't have much luck with his players so far. I feel like it's a dumb decision from Theognis to quit SC2 now, but I guess he has other reasons we probably don't know about.
I've never particularly followed this guy but he had a nice reputation. Shame for him, gl for whatever he's going to do next.
By the way lol @ this twitter asshole? he's flamed theognis and what almost every personality in esports there is o_o: https://twitter.com/WaylanderSC2_
edit: reading more he's a ridiculously toxic person what the hell
all he needed was a little more practise... Root needs to step it up and show their players hard work pays off but then again AM WCS is really tough for american players.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Allow me to point out how stupid your statements are:
"HotS is quickly going the route of WoL" How so? The skill ceiling has been raised by A LOT. Every race is way more solid early on, meaning that everyone can go into macro games more easily than in WoL, which is a BIG change in my opinion.
"a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame"
How is InnoVation struggling because of the hellbat nerf, since every terran in the world plays with the same units? Are you saying that because he lost to Maru 4 times in a row? He got cheesed and he's bad at defending cheese, it has nothing to do with balance.
I guess you're just talking out of your... neck.
Keep your posts for the Bnet forums. If you think you can do better than Blizzard, maybe you should apply for a job in their balancing team...
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
On August 01 2013 17:21 Incognoto wrote: I've never particularly followed this guy but he had a nice reputation. Shame for him, gl for whatever he's going to do next.
By the way lol @ this twitter asshole? he's flamed theognis and what almost every personality in esports there is o_o: https://twitter.com/WaylanderSC2_
edit: reading more he's a ridiculously toxic person what the hell
That guy has no life and is literally cancer to esports.
That guy has no life and is literally cancer to esports.
Wow, yeah...
Cancer is relevant, this guy isn´t.
Amazing... he's an SC2 twitter troll who insults everyone involved with SC2. He's quite an epic douche bag to take someone's retirement tweet and instantly be as negative as possible. You would think the guy wasn't serious, but based on his posts he really seems to be true scum. It's almost impressive.
That guy has no life and is literally cancer to esports.
Wow, yeah...
Cancer is relevant, this guy isn´t.
Amazing... he's an SC2 twitter troll who insults everyone involved with SC2. He's quite an epic douche bag to take someone's retirement tweet and instantly be as negative as possible. You would think the guy wasn't serious, but based on his posts he really seems to be true scum. It's almost impressive.
Good luck to theo!
That guy is a real piece of work..
GL Theo, I watched your stream a couple times, would be nice to see a post from you, no need to leave the scene on a bad note (unless something happened we do not know about)
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????”
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????”
I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased.
1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm.
I remember watching his stream some months ago and he was doing a Q and A, I asked him if he was playing full time or if he had other things. He said he was 100% committed to esports right now but if things didn't click soon he was going to go back to school and try doing real world stuff and quit sc2. Guess that time came. GL in the future man, always been a fan and will still be one, I still remember watching on of your original WoL games against Idra and remember thinking that you were easily one of the better NA terrans.
I don't know why people are still getting sad about these things. Its normal and to be expected that if you're a pro-SC2 player who hasn't had meaningful success in a while, continuing to play is just a waste of time and damaging to your future. Competition is way too fierce amongst the hardcore professional players, whether Korean or not. This really shouldn't be shocking anymore, especially amongst these sorts of players. I'd rather applaud him for making a smart decision, and wish him well like everyone else.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????”
I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased.
1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm.
What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock.
You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled.
edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream.
On August 02 2013 00:31 Fased wrote: The sadness is that Theo's retirement supports the case that being a professional North American StarCraft 2 player is not viable.
This is basically what I was thinking. He's pretty much hit it as big as it can get for a North American player (having some limited success in WCS, getting on SotG and getting fans from that and stuff, etc.), and it's pretty depressing if someone gets to that point, realizes it pretty much can't get any better and that it's not worth sustaining and just drops out completely.
Damn, he was really underrated for the entirety of his career.
Also wtf, why is it capitalized like that in the thread title? When has the 'O' ever been capitalized? It was theognis, but then became Theognis because ROOT and all that good stuff.
The problem is not WCS America, the problem is that there is nothing else to play in besides WCS and MLG events. The NA scene killed itself by suffocating all the minor cups, so stop shitting Blizzard for everything. They are offering a premier tournament, not a magical fix for two years of self induced decay.
Best of luck for Theognis. He was one of the few NA players I actually enjoyed watching.
On August 02 2013 01:12 Ventris wrote: The problem is not WCS America, the problem is that there is nothing else to play in besides WCS and MLG events. The NA scene killed itself by suffocating all the minor cups, so stop shitting Blizzard for everything. They are offering a premier tournament, not a magical fix to two years of decay.
Best of luck for TheOgnis. He was one of the few NA players I actually enjoyed watching.
Exactly, if we had more online cups and more reasons to play SC2 that resulted in money and fame, people in NA would play more. But right now there are 2 leagues and a limited number of ways to pay rent or make your mark.
On August 02 2013 01:12 Ventris wrote: The problem is not WCS America, the problem is that there is nothing else to play in besides WCS and MLG events. The NA scene killed itself by suffocating all the minor cups, so stop shitting Blizzard for everything. They are offering a premier tournament, not a magical fix to two years of decay.
Best of luck for TheOgnis. He was one of the few NA players I actually enjoyed watching.
Exactly, if we had more online cups and more reasons to play SC2 that resulted in money and fame, people in NA would play more. But right now there are 2 leagues and a limited number of ways to pay rent or make your mark.
I agree with you but I think it's not just the tournaments. It's also the coverage, in EU you have due to the different languages a lot of different local scenes and local media. In Germany for example there is ESL, TakeTV does a lot of stuff and there are others like Mori and MyStarcraft. This is mostly just local stuff, mostly in German for the German scene but it's enough to support a few teams and their players and give them the chance to compete in international tournaments without being depended on them. Same things happen in other European countries.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????”
I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased.
1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm.
What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock.
You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled.
edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream.
Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????”
I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased.
1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm.
What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock.
You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled.
edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream.
Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time.
and you really understand how to live as a pro gamer right? do you even know how much they make on Salary? and how much on average a westerner can make in tournaments with so many koreans stacked in a tournament? Also, do you know how much competition there is as a pro gamer? don't simply say : Live somewhere CHEAP, not everyone have the luxury to choose where they are born and where they live and what language they speak.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????”
I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased.
1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm.
What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock.
You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled.
edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream.
Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time.
and you really understand how to live as a pro gamer right? do you even know how much they make on Salary? and how much on average a westerner can make in tournaments with so many koreans stacked in a tournament? Also, do you know how much competition there is as a pro gamer? don't simply say : Live somewhere CHEAP, not everyone have the luxury to choose where they are born and where they live and what language they speak.
Im sorry u dont like the statement, but whitera said it himself that progamers that are not from the west, had a better shot at a progaming career just becuz expense are lower then in the west. I like ur playstyle kitty, cheesy but that doesnt mean NA should close the borders, becuz in the end, progaming will not benefit from it. So, shortterm u might be right! But longterm ur wrong..
A nice example is the ATP (tennis, also a solo prosport). The best in the world (djokovic) wins like alot of money every year, but do u know Xavier Malisse? I dont think so and i also think he has a hard time paying his probills, but still he attends tournaments and makes the best of the situation he is in. So should u
Prosports pays shit when u dont win alot.. but thats the choice u need to make as a up and comming and down and going player.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????”
I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased.
1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm.
What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock.
You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled.
edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream.
Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time.
and you really understand how to live as a pro gamer right? do you even know how much they make on Salary? and how much on average a westerner can make in tournaments with so many koreans stacked in a tournament? Also, do you know how much competition there is as a pro gamer? don't simply say : Live somewhere CHEAP, not everyone have the luxury to choose where they are born and where they live and what language they speak.
Im sorry u dont like the statement, but whitera said it himself that progamers that are not from the west, had a better shot at a progaming career just becuz expense are lower then in the west. I like ur playstyle kitty, cheesy but that doesnt mean NA should close the borders, becuz in the end, progaming will not benefit from it. So, shortterm u might be right! But longterm ur wrong..
A nice example is the ATP (tennis, also a solo prosport). The best in the world (djokovic) wins like alot of money every year, but do u know Xavier Malisse? I dont think so and i also think he has a hard time paying his probills, but still he attends tournaments and makes the best of the situation he is in. So should u
Prosports pays shit when u dont win alot.. but thats the choice u need to make as a up and comming and down and going player.
A player like Xavier Malisse probably lives quite comfortably, relative to a lot of us.
Hellokitty is probably a bit more knowledgeable on the intricacies than us. I feel so much of it is dictated by location, in certain ways. For example, living costs in Eastern Europe are often a lot lower than over in the West, so Twitch revenue and prize money can potentially go further to players like White-Ra who are based out of those areas.
It's not that Americans are any less passionate, but relative to Eastern Europeans (for example), they have to earn more to have the same standard of living off progaming.
On August 02 2013 01:12 Ventris wrote: The problem is not WCS America, the problem is that there is nothing else to play in besides WCS and MLG events. The NA scene killed itself by suffocating all the minor cups, so stop shitting Blizzard for everything. They are offering a premier tournament, not a magical fix to two years of decay.
Best of luck for TheOgnis. He was one of the few NA players I actually enjoyed watching.
Exactly, if we had more online cups and more reasons to play SC2 that resulted in money and fame, people in NA would play more. But right now there are 2 leagues and a limited number of ways to pay rent or make your mark.
The problem is that its almost impossible for "online cups" and smaller tournaments to get sponsors / support. Players can't sustain themselves playing in small tournaments that have a $100 prize pool... thus, the NA scene is full of college kids and part-time players and not very many full-time professionals. It's only viable for a very few people in NA to play SC full-time, the rest are forced to have jobs, go to school etc and do SC on the side.
And even if you are REALLY good, getting a salary, a popular streamer, winning consistently in NA etc, you could still very, very easily make more $$$ just putting your time towards a job rather than SC.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????”
I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased.
1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm.
What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock.
You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled.
edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream.
Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time.
and you really understand how to live as a pro gamer right? do you even know how much they make on Salary? and how much on average a westerner can make in tournaments with so many koreans stacked in a tournament? Also, do you know how much competition there is as a pro gamer? don't simply say : Live somewhere CHEAP, not everyone have the luxury to choose where they are born and where they live and what language they speak.
Im sorry u dont like the statement, but whitera said it himself that progamers that are not from the west, had a better shot at a progaming career just becuz expense are lower then in the west. I like ur playstyle kitty, cheesy but that doesnt mean NA should close the borders, becuz in the end, progaming will not benefit from it. So, shortterm u might be right! But longterm ur wrong..
A nice example is the ATP (tennis, also a solo prosport). The best in the world (djokovic) wins like alot of money every year, but do u know Xavier Malisse? I dont think so and i also think he has a hard time paying his probills, but still he attends tournaments and makes the best of the situation he is in. So should u
Prosports pays shit when u dont win alot.. but thats the choice u need to make as a up and comming and down and going player.
A player like Xavier Malisse probably lives quite comfortably, relative to a lot of us.
Hellokitty is probably a bit more knowledgeable on the intricacies than us. I feel so much of it is dictated by location, in certain ways. For example, living costs in Eastern Europe are often a lot lower than over in the West, so Twitch revenue and prize money can potentially go further to players like White-Ra who are based out of those areas.
It's not that Americans are any less passionate, but relative to Eastern Europeans (for example), they have to earn more to have the same standard of living off progaming.
Exactly! And so do some protennisplayers because they live in a diff country or region. But wimbledon doesnt change the prizepool because ur from NA or KR region now do they?
Thanks for the support everyone. I'm writing a blog atm that hopefully I can release tonight if I finish to explain my thoughts/actions and what's in store. I'll try to keep it as low profile as possible. Don't want to be an attention whore I always got annoyed by 'em so let's not do that! Cheers.
On August 02 2013 01:12 Ventris wrote: The problem is not WCS America, the problem is that there is nothing else to play in besides WCS and MLG events. The NA scene killed itself by suffocating all the minor cups, so stop shitting Blizzard for everything. They are offering a premier tournament, not a magical fix to two years of decay.
Best of luck for TheOgnis. He was one of the few NA players I actually enjoyed watching.
Exactly, if we had more online cups and more reasons to play SC2 that resulted in money and fame, people in NA would play more. But right now there are 2 leagues and a limited number of ways to pay rent or make your mark.
The problem is that its almost impossible for "online cups" and smaller tournaments to get sponsors / support. Players can't sustain themselves playing in small tournaments that have a $100 prize pool... thus, the NA scene is full of college kids and part-time players and not very many full-time professionals. It's only viable for a very few people in NA to play SC full-time, the rest are forced to have jobs, go to school etc and do SC on the side.
And even if you are REALLY good, getting a salary, a popular streamer, winning consistently in NA etc, you could still very, very easily make more $$$ just putting your time towards a job rather than SC.
Dota 2 has more cups that SC2 that get reasonable viewers and provide for reasonable prize pools. The teams are larger and each cup has more players in total than any single SC2 league. It is not impossible, it is just that the community is to bitchy and only wants tournments on the level of the GSL and whines when they are not of that level.
i played him a couple of times, he was really smart and good and a general nice guy. but there is an end for everyone and sc2 in NA just isn't worth it in general anymore. i can't tell you the last time i was interested in watching an NA tournament, and that's sad.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????”
I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased.
1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm.
What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock.
You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled.
edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream.
Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time.
and you really understand how to live as a pro gamer right? do you even know how much they make on Salary? and how much on average a westerner can make in tournaments with so many koreans stacked in a tournament? Also, do you know how much competition there is as a pro gamer? don't simply say : Live somewhere CHEAP, not everyone have the luxury to choose where they are born and where they live and what language they speak.
Im sorry u dont like the statement, but whitera said it himself that progamers that are not from the west, had a better shot at a progaming career just becuz expense are lower then in the west. I like ur playstyle kitty, cheesy but that doesnt mean NA should close the borders, becuz in the end, progaming will not benefit from it. So, shortterm u might be right! But longterm ur wrong..
A nice example is the ATP (tennis, also a solo prosport). The best in the world (djokovic) wins like alot of money every year, but do u know Xavier Malisse? I dont think so and i also think he has a hard time paying his probills, but still he attends tournaments and makes the best of the situation he is in. So should u
Prosports pays shit when u dont win alot.. but thats the choice u need to make as a up and comming and down and going player.
Dude you know OF Xavier Malisse. You know absolutely nothing about his financial situation. When you say "i also think he has a hard time paying his probills...", that is completely pulled from your ass.
This is important because the opportunity cost for young US players is much higher than just about any other country in the world. Sure everyone is "giving up their lives", but here you are giving up much more in EV for future earnings. The financial situations are completely different and that's why you rarely see US players (relative to EU) in tennis as well. So if anything, in the long term (maybe 5-10 yrs for e-sport), there would 0 US players unless the opp costs somehow converge across the world.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????”
I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased.
1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm.
What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock.
You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled.
edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream.
Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time.
and you really understand how to live as a pro gamer right? do you even know how much they make on Salary? and how much on average a westerner can make in tournaments with so many koreans stacked in a tournament? Also, do you know how much competition there is as a pro gamer? don't simply say : Live somewhere CHEAP, not everyone have the luxury to choose where they are born and where they live and what language they speak.
Im sorry u dont like the statement, but whitera said it himself that progamers that are not from the west, had a better shot at a progaming career just becuz expense are lower then in the west. I like ur playstyle kitty, cheesy but that doesnt mean NA should close the borders, becuz in the end, progaming will not benefit from it. So, shortterm u might be right! But longterm ur wrong..
A nice example is the ATP (tennis, also a solo prosport). The best in the world (djokovic) wins like alot of money every year, but do u know Xavier Malisse? I dont think so and i also think he has a hard time paying his probills, but still he attends tournaments and makes the best of the situation he is in. So should u
Prosports pays shit when u dont win alot.. but thats the choice u need to make as a up and comming and down and going player.
Dude you know OF Xavier Malisse. You know absolutely nothing about his financial situation. When you say "i also think he has a hard time paying his probills...", that is completely pulled from your ass.
This is important because the opportunity cost for young US players is much higher than just about any other country in the world. Sure everyone is "giving up their lives", but here you are giving up much more in EV for future earnings. The financial situations are completely different and that's why you rarely see US players (relative to EU) in tennis as well. So if anything, in the long term (maybe 5-10 yrs for e-sport), there would 0 US players unless the opp costs somehow converge across the world.
i dont like tennis but i guess u understand were i was going.
On August 01 2013 17:01 Moosy wrote: Its not just the wcs format, its also the hellbat nerf + banshee buff. a lot of terran are struggling (even innovation) in the current metagame. theo played exclusively hellbat tvt. hots is quickly going the route of wol. gg blizzard.
Yeah terran is doing so badly they took 3/4th in the semis of this OSL, and 4 out of the 8 spots for the ro8 with 7 of the 16 in ro16. What a terrible race just so underpowered.
I am kind of surprised to see Theo retire, but if you aren't enjoying the game or you want to move on good for him.
Those are Korean terrans you're talking about, American and European terrans are no way on the lvl off the Korean terrans.
He retired because he can't pay for shit in a Starcraft 2 pro-gaming career at the moment, Blizzard kind of killed the American and European scenes because they won't make it region-locked the Koreans just come over and get top 3 in the entire thing and then the Americans and Europeans don't get enough money to live from.
Probably only a few times that pay their players a salary from which they can live. like TL, Mouz, EG. and then almost all the KeSPA teams and LG-IM, MVP, etc. Korean teams pull in way more sponsors than the European teams at the moment with the exception of EG of course.
Come on, lets be clear, the American scene killed itself. Blizzard is offering the only tournament worth talking about in NA beyond MLG. The rest of the time, NA viewers refuse to watch anything that isn’t, live, in studio productions that rival GSL and complain when it isn’t of that level. If we have 7-10 online cups that were giving out 10K every 3-4 months, we would be doing better, but all the scene would do it complain. Meanwhile, Dota 2 has tons of events running at all time that are online, but no one can complain because they don’t have GSL is to compare it to and say “Why isn’t it that????”
I so agree.. this feels exactly right! Peeps and players (like hellokitty i.e.) bitch to much about there so called WCS must be regionbased.
1st. there was no WCS, they could not even compete for 10k pricepool because they suck (sorry but hell, i cant beat around this korean bush). 2nd. Blizzard gives them also a chance to get 10k firstprize and they complain instantly.... 3. like little bitches they are... p They want 10k region GARANTUEED!!!1 Motherfucka's else our scene wont grow... what shameless bullshit is this NA proscene.. go suck donkeyballs because this is bullshit... if u give a plant to much water it dies... seems NA scene is also to wet atm.
What? That was insanely hard to read. I believe the players complaining is pretty fair. If you become the best player in the US you can make the same amount of money as if you worked at McDonalds basically. WCS NA is a huge joke now because it's becoming WCS esF. I bet that a decent number of the koreans who made it into Challenger won't even be able to show up to the live event when they make it into premier league. I think people would rather have a smaller prize pool and region lock.
You can complain about people feeling entitled, but you come across as incredibly entitled when you suggest that people should enter an extremely competitive environment and forgo school or a career only to make $150 and then get knocked out of their regional tournament by a Korean B teamer. At the very least these Korean players have the support and infrastructure available to focus only on improving, but we will never reach that point if the Korean scene can stomp out any up and coming players, which is what is happening. I know that many NA professional players have other jobs, how else could you compete without living with your parents? You are basically asking players to get screwed and not complain, which is pretty ignorant and entitled.
edit: Also, I will really miss Theognis, he was a really nice guy it seemed. I really enjoyed watching his stream.
Yes, ognis will be missed but im not ignorant at all. If there were progamers before WCS in the US, there will be progamers with WCS structure too. 2nd : dont put words in my mouth i didnt say. I only stated facts, nothing more. I didnt entitle anything. If u want to be a progamer go live where living is cheap! i.e. That is why whitera is still a progamer and can pay his expensis, this hasnt changed becuz of wcs... Being a progamer is hard with hard choices. Not many can live in the west and succeed at a progamingcareer the same time.
and you really understand how to live as a pro gamer right? do you even know how much they make on Salary? and how much on average a westerner can make in tournaments with so many koreans stacked in a tournament? Also, do you know how much competition there is as a pro gamer? don't simply say : Live somewhere CHEAP, not everyone have the luxury to choose where they are born and where they live and what language they speak.
Im sorry u dont like the statement, but whitera said it himself that progamers that are not from the west, had a better shot at a progaming career just becuz expense are lower then in the west. I like ur playstyle kitty, cheesy but that doesnt mean NA should close the borders, becuz in the end, progaming will not benefit from it. So, shortterm u might be right! But longterm ur wrong..
A nice example is the ATP (tennis, also a solo prosport). The best in the world (djokovic) wins like alot of money every year, but do u know Xavier Malisse? I dont think so and i also think he has a hard time paying his probills, but still he attends tournaments and makes the best of the situation he is in. So should u
Prosports pays shit when u dont win alot.. but thats the choice u need to make as a up and comming and down and going player.
On August 02 2013 05:31 ROOTheognis wrote: Thanks for the support everyone. I'm writing a blog atm that hopefully I can release tonight if I finish to explain my thoughts/actions and what's in store. I'll try to keep it as low profile as possible. Don't want to be an attention whore I always got annoyed by 'em so let's not do that! Cheers.
Look forward to reading it. You're no attention whore, if anything you're a shrinking violet
When you stop having fun playing video games, its time to do something different. I enjoyed the coaching with you, and following your games. Best of luck in the future. Taking that ONE game off your Protoss will forever be the highlight of my SC2 gaming!! <3 <3 <3
On August 02 2013 05:31 ROOTheognis wrote: Thanks for the support everyone. I'm writing a blog atm that hopefully I can release tonight if I finish to explain my thoughts/actions and what's in store. I'll try to keep it as low profile as possible. Don't want to be an attention whore I always got annoyed by 'em so let's not do that! Cheers.
At a certain point you have to think about your long term future and not your SC2 future. People move on, you can't be in the scene until you're 62 and want to retire. Korea just happens to have retirement built into the culture (military service) so we see "less of it" over there, but eventually everyone moves on. You have to if you want to survive long term.
RIP in piece. His play never really caught my eye and like he said, he could've done a lot more to get noticed in the NA scene. I stopped by his stream quite a few times and there were some entertaining moments here and there. Good luck in future.
Its a shame what has happened to the NA scene. Bringing all the koreans over to play in our tournaments has contributed to the demise of the community.. things were a lot brighter and clearer in 2010 and 2011.
TeamLiquid, Axiom, Complexity and Evil Geniuses are guilty of causing some of these problems in my opinion. Without players like Taeja, Hero, Puma, Heart, Alicia, Ryung, ect ect there would be a lot more prize money going around to the North American pros rather than imports.
It's just a matter of time untill there's literally no foreign 'pros' left competing at major (not to mention premier) tournaments. As far as I've gathered from the chats and message boards, most of the people watching SC2 won't mind, since they don't care who is playing as long as it's the best players in the world. If the foreigners can't play as good as Koreans they might as well quit -is the mantra.
The way I see it, starcraft won't last. Hopefully it will survive in korea, although I think that with the MOBAs gaining big popularity, I think it will be over in about 1-2 years. The foreign scene will keep going a little bit past that, then it will die out. I really really hope that doesn't happen, but I think thats what happening right now.
What I hope is that it at least stays at like counter strike popularity levels. The communities weren't that big but that was decent price money and a good community. I hope it doesn't die out completely.
On August 01 2013 08:06 Dodgin wrote: Who will be the Terran on sotg and Meta now?!
probably qxc
He is less biased than Theognis, perfect. Or wait, biased is the wrong word, qxc has the clearer view. Theognis judges too much from his own view as a player.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/z4sBcKs.jpg)
