EPTOpinion on new hellbat nerf patch - Page 4
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J.E.G.
United States389 Posts
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larse
1611 Posts
We all know it's possible, but It just doesn't happen. | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
I think TvT will turn into gas first cloak banshee wars. Which sounds awful. I suppose I'll try and scan and find my opponents starport and just put 2-3 mines along the expected flight paths. And yea, in TvP it's just a flat nerf. Banshees are useless against viable stargate openers and nexus cannons. I don't see how making them cheaper is supposed to help out. | ||
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XDEKSDEEXD
622 Posts
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Traceback
United States469 Posts
On July 09 2013 10:55 MooLen wrote: Regarding TvP. I think after you make the reactor for the starport you can directly go for the techlab, research infernal preigniter and then lift again build the 4 th barrack on the techlab and go for a reactor on the factory. And still Terrans can avoid the mothership core in the mainfight when they are active with drops. Because on the protoss side you are consantly scared that you get catched off guard while you push so you let the MC at home. And regarding Banshee i can´t agree with your points aswell because you need either way an oracle or 2 observers (one at natu, one at main) which is causing a massive delay when you want to go early collosus + the costs for the terran are evening out with the costs of the protoss, atleast gaswise. The problem is, when you switch with the port you are on 3 gas normally and have to build armory + 2/2 + combat shields + 2 medivacs + start marauder production + build your 4th and 5th addons all around that time period. That is over 850 gas, not including the 3rd and 4th medivac. Off 3 gas there really isn't an extra 175 gas left over at that time period to spend on blue flame. | ||
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ETisME
12702 Posts
i still think the biggest problem is speedmedivac rather than hellbats in ZvT but a weaker hellbats might be ok too | ||
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midnight999
United States257 Posts
Banshees in TvP right now is the dumbest opening ever. | ||
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joebang
United States33 Posts
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Traceback
United States469 Posts
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spbelky
United States623 Posts
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00higgo
Australia119 Posts
On July 09 2013 06:22 Poo wrote: Yeah I don't think it'll be easy for Terrans to get the upgrade 'just like that' as a bio player. It's a large cost + need a tech lab  I'm kinda wondering though if hellbats will be as useless as you're making them out to be. with 135 health, and medivac regeneration - I'd imagine they'd still serve as a good buffer for bio users? The overall damage of the bio ball will be lower, but maybe they'll still be worth investing in vs zealot heavy comp? Plus aoe is always nice even with the dmg decrease. Well written as always but i agree with this guy  , seems to me you have a weeeee tiny bias (as we all do), And making Nexus cannon shoot ground only is silly (thinks oracles, medivacs , mutas ). but all in all. i agree with your sentiments. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On July 09 2013 09:05 Inimic wrote: A balance thread, but since a pro posted it its okay. Nice. The fact he's a pro actually has huge merit on these boards, the fact it's also a well constructed discussion thread only adds to it. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On July 09 2013 13:47 Vindicare605 wrote: The fact he's a pro actually has huge merit on these boards, the fact it's also a well constructed discussion thread only adds to it. It's also not really actually at all a complain thread - he says he thinks the patch is overall a positive and he wants to see how it plays out. It's not even entirely a balance thread, mostly discussing the impacts on the different matchups. | ||
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Dreadwolf
Canada220 Posts
Terrans on 4 base must really really really really need this 150min and 125gas. some something else instead of giving +12 damage to light to hellbats and +5 to hellion. | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
On July 09 2013 15:05 Dreadwolf wrote: I really love people who that lategame hellbat is now useless when its exactly the same for the cost of a techlab and a research. Terrans on 4 base must really really really really need this 150min and 125gas. some something else instead of giving +12 damage to light to hellbats and +5 to hellion. Yeah, I also love people that make phoenix to defend drops and then don't get range upgrade when its just an upgrade. Protoss on 4base must realy really really really need this 150min and 150 gas. | ||
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AxiomBlurr
786 Posts
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MonkSEA
Australia1227 Posts
On July 09 2013 15:25 GTPGlitch wrote: Yeah, I also love people that make phoenix to defend drops and then don't get range upgrade when its just an upgrade. Protoss on 4base must realy really really really need this 150min and 150 gas. The difference is that you need a fleet beacon, something you don't get unless you're going air. A tech lab? I mean you can swap it after the research for crying out loud. | ||
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Strelok
Ukraine320 Posts
On July 09 2013 15:05 Dreadwolf wrote: I really love people who that lategame hellbat is now useless when its exactly the same for the cost of a techlab and a research. Terrans on 4 base must really really really really need this 150min and 125gas. some something else instead of giving +12 damage to light to hellbats and +5 to hellion. Since there were a thons of responses like that, i will add explanation to that part in main article. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
Furthermore, I don't understand why you mention that in TvP, Bio-Terrans cannot use the hellbat in lategame. For every matchup, you get more than one factory after at least you got your third base up. Against Zergs Bio Terrans, no matter if Hellbat or Widowmine usually get a factory with a techlab, it allows you to upgrade faster mine burrow, blueflame, it allows you to build Thors which can be also very good (see HeRoMarine style). TvP can easily be done with a 2nd factory to research blueflame and add a barracks to it later on, I doubt thats a problem. What I really find problematic is the 2-2 Zealot/Archon timing. It was very well defendable if you scouted it and played a hellbat opener, now after the patch, I dare to say we will see less hellbat openeres but more CC first/bio play or widowmine drops followed by either cloak or standard play. This will lead to the tails build (dt drop) followed by 2-2 zealot/archon timing to be very strong. Even with an wall-off and multiple bunkers, you usually need the hellbat spray damage vs zealots to fight, otherwise you flat out die. In TvT, while I think it shifts the meta game or could shift the metagame, It could also mean that it doesn't change anything. Right now the problem was the initial (first) hellbat drop that either resulted in damage or lost mining time and snowballed into not defending the following drops well. With the hellbat nerf, its less likely to kill much economy, but you will still need to pull workers and the followup drops will be as strong, as 4 hellbats kill economy just as fast as before as they did massive overdamage. I don't know how it will play out and we'll wait and see, but that would be my main concern. | ||
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pmp10
3390 Posts
On July 09 2013 07:06 Aunvilgod wrote: I won't believe in mech outside TvT until I see it. In TvZ it would occasionally happen on Newkirk. I doubt it will survive this patch tho. In fact Strelok used to play mech in all match-ups which explains his interest in hellbat balance. | ||
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