EPTOn July 10 2013 21:34 Clbull wrote:
Mech is unviable in any matchup, not just TvZ. I have yet to see a meching player survive any sort of early game gateway timing and here are some statistics I can give you to show that the Siege Tank in particular is underpowered
Siege Tank in Brood War. Did 70 Explosive damage or 70 to Large, 52.5 to Medium or 35 to Small.
Siege Tank in SC2 does 35 damage or 50 vs Armored units.
Hydralisks in BW and SC2 have 80 HP. It takes 2 hits to kill a Hydralisk in Brood War and 3 hits to kill one in SC2. Roaches likewise take the same amount of hits to kill. This seriously ups the viability of Roach Hydra massively.
Ultralisks in SC2 not only have 100 more HP (which makes them OP as fuck) but also take less damage from the Siege Tank. An Ultralisk in Brood War took six siege tank shells to kill. An Ultralisk in StarCraft II takes ten siege tank shells to kill. This assumes equal upgrades and not the 5-3 that Ultralisk players usually go for.
Anybody who has ever tried to fight Ultralisks with a late game Mech or MMMM comp knows it's like trying to fight a fucking mountain. Not even twenty Marauders can burn down Ultralisks quickly enough to not get closed down and slaughtered. The amount of micro required to even trade equally let alone efficiently against a flurry of 11+ Ultralisks with ling reinforcements roaring straight at you is such that only a godlike player like Flash or Innovation can pull it off. Even if you had made several Banshees, you'd likely not get the Ship Weapons upgrade because you need to get Vehicle Weapons and Vehicle Plating to bolster up your Mech army and you'd watch six ships in the air tickling something that bulldozes your base.
Immortals have 200 Life and 100 Shields, However, their Hardened Shields ability mean they take up to 10 damage from a higher hitting ability. This means that an Immortal takes FOURTEEN Siege Tank shells to kill.
Then there's the Colossus which has 200 Life and 150 Shields, taking seven shells to kill. Compare this to the Reaver which only took three and due to its much slower speed pretty much had to be drop microed.
Compare that to the Archon which had 360 effective HP (10 Life and 350 Shields.) In Brood War they took six shells to kill. In StarCraft II they take ELEVEN to kill. They are the second tankiest unit against the Siege Tank, second only to the Immortal.
And what about the Stalker and Dragoon? Stalkers have 20 less effective HP with 20 less Life than a Dragoon yet they take four hits to kill unlike the Dragoon's three. Why is this? Siege Tank damage got over-nerfed. Worse, Dragoons had borderline-retarded AI pathing and Stalkers not only have decent AI but can also Blink, instantly entering the Dead Zone of Siege Tanks.
It's much like a Rogue vs a Hunter pre-Wrath.
Mech is unviable in any matchup, not just TvZ. I have yet to see a meching player survive any sort of early game gateway timing and here are some statistics I can give you to show that the Siege Tank in particular is underpowered
Siege Tank in Brood War. Did 70 Explosive damage or 70 to Large, 52.5 to Medium or 35 to Small.
Siege Tank in SC2 does 35 damage or 50 vs Armored units.
Hydralisks in BW and SC2 have 80 HP. It takes 2 hits to kill a Hydralisk in Brood War and 3 hits to kill one in SC2. Roaches likewise take the same amount of hits to kill. This seriously ups the viability of Roach Hydra massively.
Ultralisks in SC2 not only have 100 more HP (which makes them OP as fuck) but also take less damage from the Siege Tank. An Ultralisk in Brood War took six siege tank shells to kill. An Ultralisk in StarCraft II takes ten siege tank shells to kill. This assumes equal upgrades and not the 5-3 that Ultralisk players usually go for.
Anybody who has ever tried to fight Ultralisks with a late game Mech or MMMM comp knows it's like trying to fight a fucking mountain. Not even twenty Marauders can burn down Ultralisks quickly enough to not get closed down and slaughtered. The amount of micro required to even trade equally let alone efficiently against a flurry of 11+ Ultralisks with ling reinforcements roaring straight at you is such that only a godlike player like Flash or Innovation can pull it off. Even if you had made several Banshees, you'd likely not get the Ship Weapons upgrade because you need to get Vehicle Weapons and Vehicle Plating to bolster up your Mech army and you'd watch six ships in the air tickling something that bulldozes your base.
Immortals have 200 Life and 100 Shields, However, their Hardened Shields ability mean they take up to 10 damage from a higher hitting ability. This means that an Immortal takes FOURTEEN Siege Tank shells to kill.
Then there's the Colossus which has 200 Life and 150 Shields, taking seven shells to kill. Compare this to the Reaver which only took three and due to its much slower speed pretty much had to be drop microed.
Compare that to the Archon which had 360 effective HP (10 Life and 350 Shields.) In Brood War they took six shells to kill. In StarCraft II they take ELEVEN to kill. They are the second tankiest unit against the Siege Tank, second only to the Immortal.
And what about the Stalker and Dragoon? Stalkers have 20 less effective HP with 20 less Life than a Dragoon yet they take four hits to kill unlike the Dragoon's three. Why is this? Siege Tank damage got over-nerfed. Worse, Dragoons had borderline-retarded AI pathing and Stalkers not only have decent AI but can also Blink, instantly entering the Dead Zone of Siege Tanks.
It's much like a Rogue vs a Hunter pre-Wrath.
you cant compare 1 supply 75/25 cost hydras with SC2 hydras. per supply and cost you had a lot more hydras than now so no 1:1 comparison.
same goes for ultralisks. per supply they have a lot less hp than in BW (and since you are pretty much always maxed when going ultras supply matters, not only cost).
i am all for a tank buff that helps mech in TvP. just give them +15 or so to shields. wouldnt mess up TvT and TvZ. which probably would need to be an upgrade to not make 1 1 1 with better ravens and free siege mode and cheaper cloak AND +15 to shields OP.
