• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:32
CEST 13:32
KST 20:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou16Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four0BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET6Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Weekly Cups (March 17-23): Clem Bounces Back DreamHack Open 2013 revealed The New Patch Killed Mech!
Tourneys
$1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 INu's Battles #13 - ByuN vs Zoun Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Is there anyway to get a private coach? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Season 21 OGN to release AI-upscaled StarLeague from Feb 24
Tourneys
300$ 3D!Community Brood War Super Cup #4 [ASL20] Semifinal B Azhi's Colosseum - Anonymous Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Roaring Currents ASL final Current Meta [I] Funny Protoss Builds/Strategies BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1073 users

Balance patch this week - Hellbats nerfed, Banshees buffed…

Forum Index > SC2 General
1080 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 55 Next
EFermi
Profile Joined May 2011
United States165 Posts
July 08 2013 18:54 GMT
#141
Don't like the banshee change. 100 gas is way too cheap for something that powerful.
GO herO, Bunny, JangBi, Savage, BaBy, Pigbaby, StarDust, RoRo, Flying and Soulkey
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
July 08 2013 18:55 GMT
#142
On July 09 2013 03:22 KawaiiRice wrote:
jesus christ not cloakshees........ would rather play vs hellbats


I think I speak for all people who are not high masters when I ask you to elaborate.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
July 08 2013 18:58 GMT
#143
Honestly, banshees got a major nerf with HotS because detection became much more common. Since I think they're a much cooler and more micro intensive unit then Hellbats, I'm all for this change, because it means we might actually see cloaked banshees again as something other than an occasional gimmick.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
July 08 2013 19:00 GMT
#144
On July 09 2013 03:51 Topdoller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 03:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I'm not sure about this. I feel like PvT might go back to the guessing game it was in beta - if terran takes a gas, they can do absolutely everything and if you guess wrong you die. But hey, we'll see how it plays out, I may be dead wrong. Definitely liking the hellbat change though, I hope it makes TvT a bit more stable.


I guess Protoss will need to go early Robo v Terran again, or use hallucination more often to scout for proxies


Well, the 1 gate into robo is the super standard way to play right now but in WoL for example there was a 3gate timing attack of one base that was designed to a) defend aggression and b) hit a teching terran hard. I remember Parting and HerO throwing it in the mix every now and then to not get predictable in the way they dealt with one base terran. I'm not sure if it's viable in HotS (probably not due to widow mine drops being so popular) but the banshee change alone for example would kill that.
Basically the point I'm trying to make is it might restrict protoss to predictable standard play (1 gate robo) too much which in turn can be exploited by crazy builds. This is all theorycrafting though so don't take this as how I think it will play out.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Rhaegal
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
United States678 Posts
July 08 2013 19:00 GMT
#145
On July 09 2013 03:54 Wingblade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 03:45 Rhaegal wrote:
Terran had lowest winrate in May, and despite what they say, this is a nerf to every matchup, and banshees were shit vs P and Z for reasons other than the cloak cost.


This will just make TvT an early game cluster fuck, and have minimal effect vs P or Z.

Now Hellbats will be a hassle just to make vs early chargelot compositions, if you don't get the upgrade they are worthless. So what's our option? A banshee that can be nullified by nexus cannon? Awesome! good job blizzard, yet again. You guys buffed Queens when the matchup was 50/50, now you nerf Terran when they are performing the worst of all races. Keep up the good work guys!


My meme got deleted, but the idea is the same. Terran had the HIGHEST winrate in May. Not sure what you are looking at.

http://aligulac.com/reports/


I meant June. And aligulac is quite horrid and not accepted by anyone. TLPD is much more accurate.
http://www.twitch.tv/agonysc
b0ub0u
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada445 Posts
July 08 2013 19:01 GMT
#146
lol @ people saying Hellbats were not an issue in TvZ. Maybe at high level but not everyone play pro. I am only diamond but I find it very difficult to deal with burst and splash damage from Hellbats or even Widow Mines.

They come very early and if we are not on top of things we loose workers and mining time.

Terrans were given 2 units that come very early and can completely change an engagement if we are not careful.
In the swarm we trust
Cheeseling
Profile Joined March 2012
Ukraine132 Posts
July 08 2013 19:01 GMT
#147
100/100 upgrade cost sounds reasonable. Paying 200/200 to make opponent build couple of extra turrets or spores wich costs only minerals...
Taefox
Profile Joined March 2010
1533 Posts
July 08 2013 19:01 GMT
#148
Nice change, I'm frustrated of every TvT have to deal against hellbat drop
@taefoxy
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 19:03:16
July 08 2013 19:02 GMT
#149
On July 09 2013 03:54 Wingblade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 03:45 Rhaegal wrote:
Terran had lowest winrate in May, and despite what they say, this is a nerf to every matchup, and banshees were shit vs P and Z for reasons other than the cloak cost.


This will just make TvT an early game cluster fuck, and have minimal effect vs P or Z.

Now Hellbats will be a hassle just to make vs early chargelot compositions, if you don't get the upgrade they are worthless. So what's our option? A banshee that can be nullified by nexus cannon? Awesome! good job blizzard, yet again. You guys buffed Queens when the matchup was 50/50, now you nerf Terran when they are performing the worst of all races. Keep up the good work guys!


My meme got deleted, but the idea is the same. Terran had the HIGHEST winrate in May. Not sure what you are looking at.

http://aligulac.com/reports/


That counts foreign results as well. Can be disregarded.

On July 09 2013 04:01 b0ub0u wrote:
lol @ people saying Hellbats were not an issue in TvZ. Maybe at high level but not everyone play pro. I am only diamond but I find it very difficult to deal with burst and splash damage from Hellbats or even Widow Mines.

They come very early and if we are not on top of things we loose workers and mining time.

Terrans were given 2 units that come very early and can completely change an engagement if we are not careful.


The game cannot be balanced around two levels of play at once. Not possible.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
Wingblade
Profile Joined April 2012
United States1806 Posts
July 08 2013 19:02 GMT
#150
On July 09 2013 04:00 Rhaegal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 03:54 Wingblade wrote:
On July 09 2013 03:45 Rhaegal wrote:
Terran had lowest winrate in May, and despite what they say, this is a nerf to every matchup, and banshees were shit vs P and Z for reasons other than the cloak cost.


This will just make TvT an early game cluster fuck, and have minimal effect vs P or Z.

Now Hellbats will be a hassle just to make vs early chargelot compositions, if you don't get the upgrade they are worthless. So what's our option? A banshee that can be nullified by nexus cannon? Awesome! good job blizzard, yet again. You guys buffed Queens when the matchup was 50/50, now you nerf Terran when they are performing the worst of all races. Keep up the good work guys!


My meme got deleted, but the idea is the same. Terran had the HIGHEST winrate in May. Not sure what you are looking at.

http://aligulac.com/reports/


I meant June. And aligulac is quite horrid and not accepted by anyone. TLPD is much more accurate.


Where are TLPD's statistics then? I haven't seen them. And on what basis is Aligulac horrid and not accepted? Because it doesn't support your viewpoint?
PartinG fanboy to the max, Rain/Squirtle/Dear/Scarlett/Bbyong are cool too. I don't always watch Dota2 but when I do I have no clue what's going on. GOGO POWER RANGERS
Zoku
Profile Joined November 2010
307 Posts
July 08 2013 19:03 GMT
#151
On July 09 2013 03:55 Aunvilgod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 03:22 KawaiiRice wrote:
jesus christ not cloakshees........ would rather play vs hellbats


I think I speak for all people who are not high masters when I ask you to elaborate.


Most likely a preference thing for Kawaiirice, but the idea is, in the same way that the hellbat made TvT kinda stupid, the banshee buff will do the same thing.
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 19:04:45
July 08 2013 19:04 GMT
#152
On July 09 2013 04:03 Zoku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 03:55 Aunvilgod wrote:
On July 09 2013 03:22 KawaiiRice wrote:
jesus christ not cloakshees........ would rather play vs hellbats


I think I speak for all people who are not high masters when I ask you to elaborate.


Most likely a preference thing for Kawaiirice, but the idea is, in the same way that the hellbat made TvT kinda stupid, the banshee buff will do the same thing.


Not so sure. Banshees do much less terrible, terrible damage. Or can be shut down so much easier if you will. A turret in each mineral line won't stop hellbats but surely will stop Banshees.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
Qwerty85
Profile Joined June 2012
Croatia5536 Posts
July 08 2013 19:04 GMT
#153
On July 09 2013 04:01 b0ub0u wrote:
lol @ people saying Hellbats were not an issue in TvZ. Maybe at high level but not everyone play pro. I am only diamond but I find it very difficult to deal with burst and splash damage from Hellbats or even Widow Mines.

They come very early and if we are not on top of things we loose workers and mining time.

Terrans were given 2 units that come very early and can completely change an engagement if we are not careful.


Not much different from terran getting his army stormed or fungaled without babysitting. All races have its moments of unforgivingness. Game is always balanced around high level of play. Blizzard sometimes helps us lower league players but in most cases if you see fungal you need to react in time to dodge it. If you see a widow mine - same thing.
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
July 08 2013 19:05 GMT
#154
I meant June. And aligulac is quite horrid and not accepted by anyone. TLPD is much more accurate.


TLPD current top five:
Sen
Stephano
Socke
M00nGLade
Nerchio

Aligulac current top five:
INoVation
Life
MVP
Polt
Hyun

Anyone who "accepts" that TLPD is somehow more accurate is probably on meth. Does anyone on earth really believe that if the TLPD top 5 played the Aligulac top 5 that they wouldn't be utterly stomped? Because if so, I've got this awesome bridge for sale.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 08 2013 19:05 GMT
#155
On July 09 2013 04:02 Wingblade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 04:00 Rhaegal wrote:
On July 09 2013 03:54 Wingblade wrote:
On July 09 2013 03:45 Rhaegal wrote:
Terran had lowest winrate in May, and despite what they say, this is a nerf to every matchup, and banshees were shit vs P and Z for reasons other than the cloak cost.


This will just make TvT an early game cluster fuck, and have minimal effect vs P or Z.

Now Hellbats will be a hassle just to make vs early chargelot compositions, if you don't get the upgrade they are worthless. So what's our option? A banshee that can be nullified by nexus cannon? Awesome! good job blizzard, yet again. You guys buffed Queens when the matchup was 50/50, now you nerf Terran when they are performing the worst of all races. Keep up the good work guys!


My meme got deleted, but the idea is the same. Terran had the HIGHEST winrate in May. Not sure what you are looking at.

http://aligulac.com/reports/


I meant June. And aligulac is quite horrid and not accepted by anyone. TLPD is much more accurate.


Where are TLPD's statistics then? I haven't seen them. And on what basis is Aligulac horrid and not accepted? Because it doesn't support your viewpoint?

That is how all statistics are validated on TL, by who's view they support. Where have you been?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Qwerty85
Profile Joined June 2012
Croatia5536 Posts
July 08 2013 19:05 GMT
#156
On July 09 2013 04:03 Zoku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 03:55 Aunvilgod wrote:
On July 09 2013 03:22 KawaiiRice wrote:
jesus christ not cloakshees........ would rather play vs hellbats


I think I speak for all people who are not high masters when I ask you to elaborate.


Most likely a preference thing for Kawaiirice, but the idea is, in the same way that the hellbat made TvT kinda stupid, the banshee buff will do the same thing.


Banshees require much more micro, they get shut down easier, are heavier investment and don't deal such a huge damage in seconds.
See.Blue
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2673 Posts
July 08 2013 19:06 GMT
#157
Would much rather see a tank buff, but still nice changes.
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 19:08:16
July 08 2013 19:08 GMT
#158
Good change. The HB nerf and the way it's done makes sense. The Banshee buff is a light one. Kudos, Blizzard!
KT best KT ~ 2014
TiTanIum_
Profile Joined August 2011
Brazil1335 Posts
July 08 2013 19:08 GMT
#159
3 port banshee, new meta.
Wingblade
Profile Joined April 2012
United States1806 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-08 19:08:52
July 08 2013 19:08 GMT
#160
On July 09 2013 04:05 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2013 04:02 Wingblade wrote:
On July 09 2013 04:00 Rhaegal wrote:
On July 09 2013 03:54 Wingblade wrote:
On July 09 2013 03:45 Rhaegal wrote:
Terran had lowest winrate in May, and despite what they say, this is a nerf to every matchup, and banshees were shit vs P and Z for reasons other than the cloak cost.


This will just make TvT an early game cluster fuck, and have minimal effect vs P or Z.

Now Hellbats will be a hassle just to make vs early chargelot compositions, if you don't get the upgrade they are worthless. So what's our option? A banshee that can be nullified by nexus cannon? Awesome! good job blizzard, yet again. You guys buffed Queens when the matchup was 50/50, now you nerf Terran when they are performing the worst of all races. Keep up the good work guys!


My meme got deleted, but the idea is the same. Terran had the HIGHEST winrate in May. Not sure what you are looking at.

http://aligulac.com/reports/


I meant June. And aligulac is quite horrid and not accepted by anyone. TLPD is much more accurate.


Where are TLPD's statistics then? I haven't seen them. And on what basis is Aligulac horrid and not accepted? Because it doesn't support your viewpoint?

That is how all statistics are validated on TL, by who's view they support. Where have you been?


I had suspected as much. I just didn't expect that much bias, I thought TL was way better than that. The worst part is he is using "statistics" that he has yet to even cite.
PartinG fanboy to the max, Rain/Squirtle/Dear/Scarlett/Bbyong are cool too. I don't always watch Dota2 but when I do I have no clue what's going on. GOGO POWER RANGERS
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 55 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
11:00
Mid Season Playoffs
TriGGeR vs JumyLIVE!
Creator vs Spirit
Nicoract vs GgMaChine
SKillous vs sebesdes
Solar vs Cure
WardiTV325
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
10:00
SC2's Safe House 2: Playoffs
CranKy Ducklings175
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 8242
Bisu 2751
GuemChi 2720
Horang2 2678
Flash 1139
hero 842
Leta 833
firebathero 694
Jaedong 565
PianO 562
[ Show more ]
Hyun 524
BeSt 481
Mini 334
Soma 201
Last 166
ZerO 138
JulyZerg 135
JYJ127
Killer 122
EffOrt 110
Light 107
Barracks 105
Rush 94
Pusan 80
Aegong 76
ToSsGirL 70
Soulkey 61
Snow 58
Free 57
Mind 51
Sharp 43
Noble 34
sas.Sziky 22
Icarus 19
yabsab 13
Sacsri 10
SilentControl 9
HiyA 9
ivOry 8
zelot 8
ajuk12(nOOB) 3
Mong 1
Dota 2
XaKoH 382
XcaliburYe183
canceldota67
League of Legends
JimRising 415
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1708
shoxiejesuss756
x6flipin422
edward42
oskar42
Other Games
summit1g6112
singsing2011
B2W.Neo616
Pyrionflax178
Hui .159
Sick115
Mew2King57
Trikslyr10
ZerO(Twitch)8
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL239
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• iopq 0
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV459
League of Legends
• Jankos2745
• Lourlo492
Upcoming Events
OSC
4h 28m
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
11h 28m
The PondCast
22h 28m
OSC
1d
WardiTV Invitational
1d 23h
Online Event
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Soma
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.