EPTOSL Ro32 groups + format - Page 22
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HeroWeDeserve
69 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Im pretty sure if Inno/Flash/Soulkey get cheesed out of their groups due to 2 all ins or 2 busts that there will be alot of unhappy people in SC2 community. Plus the people who actually genuinely win a BO1 against a top player will still have a question mark against them due to not taking them down in a BO3. Who knows YuGiOh might destroy his group, but it being BO1 it wont be as a good achivement as doing it in BO3s | ||
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Arceus
Vietnam8333 Posts
On June 13 2013 17:42 Pandemona wrote: Doesn't mean what they are doing is right does it? Yes they have done this way more than GSL has ever had but that is not the point. This isn't an OSL this isn't a GSL, this is a WCS tournament. You would think blizzard would have made it set rules for everyone to follow. Not one tournament saying, BO1 RO32 and every other doing BO3 RO32. No. this is THE OSL, which, beside being THE OSL, also serves as a ranking for some high-stake weekend Blizzard tourney (like Blizzcon or BWI back then). Take it that way | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On June 13 2013 17:42 Pandemona wrote: Doesn't mean what they are doing is right does it? Yes they have done this way more than GSL has ever had but that is not the point. This isn't an OSL this isn't a GSL, this is a WCS tournament. You would think blizzard would have made it set rules for everyone to follow. Not one tournament saying, BO1 RO32 and every other doing BO3 RO32. Where did I say that what they're doing is right ? The guy was suggesting that OSL should be left to die, but that is surely wrong. On June 13 2013 17:43 HeroWeDeserve wrote: Yeah, but the point is that the game isn't as random as people tend to believe. The top players are likely going to lose less often in a HotS bo1 than in a BW bo1 Uh oh, I wouldn't say that at all... | ||
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mnck
Denmark1518 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12041 Posts
Yeah, but the point is that the game isn't as random as people tend to believe. The top players are likely going to lose less often in a HotS bo1 than in a BW bo1 I wouldn't agree with the second part since I'd say it's about the same, but compared to WoL the better player will pretty much always win in HoTS. There's not even any doubting it. If someone gets cheesed out for playing greedy, well I'm sorry they're not the best player on the day. People are so scared of change with HoTS because WoL was such a bad game in terms of balance/coin flippyness that I don't think people know how to react to anything different anymore. Formats, maps, players, if anything changes then all of a sudden it's bad or doesn't work, without anyone ever bothering to try. Bo1 is perfect for Starcraft and it's perfect for HoTS. If you can't win a Bo1 and you lose to cheese, you better get practicing. | ||
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HeroWeDeserve
69 Posts
On June 13 2013 17:46 Pandemona wrote: Less likely doesn't make a difference does it? Im pretty sure if Inno/Flash/Soulkey get cheesed out of their groups due to 2 all ins or 2 busts that there will be alot of unhappy people in SC2 community. Plus the people who actually genuinely win a BO1 against a top player will still have a question mark against them due to not taking them down in a BO3. Who knows YuGiOh might destroy his group, but it being BO1 it wont be as a good achivement as doing it in BO3s I don't think anyone will deny that the OSL format produced extraordinary tournaments in BW. The question here is will the format translate just as well to SC2. If the argument is that it won't because SC2 is more random, then its extremely relevant how much variance there is in each of the two games. The stats so far suggest that there is probably less variance in HotS than BW. If your argument is that the OSL has had it all wrong from the beginning and should have been doing bo3's for the last 10 years then that's an entirely different discussion | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On June 13 2013 17:40 HeroWeDeserve wrote: Not sure this is true anymore. Innovation has a higher win rate in Hots than flash did in BW and nearly all "top players" have >60% win rates which is pretty comparable to their BW counterparts. BW: Flash 72%, Bisu 66%, Fantasy 62%, Jangbi 55%, Stork 60%, Jaedong 67%. HotS: Innovation 75%, Flash 68%, MVP 67%, Soulket 65%, SoS 60%, Rain 63%, Life 67%, Jangbi 61%, So top players have higher win rates pretty much across the board in Hots That's some interesting stats, thanks for bringing that up  | ||
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Serimek
France2274 Posts
On a side note, is this the first OSL/GSL where Kespa players are more than esf players (17 to 15) ? (Not counting first OSL which had seeding and stuff) | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On June 13 2013 17:47 Arceus wrote: No. this is THE OSL, which, beside being THE OSL, also serves as a ranking for some high-stake weekend Blizzard tourney (like Blizzcon or BWI back then). Take it that way Well if thats the case, and blizzard just said ok OSL you do one tourney, GSL you do 2. Make your own rules, keep the same tournament you did before etcetc. Then its stupid blizzards fault for not saying. You need to follow this format for rules and bo's and not let them change it. On June 13 2013 17:52 HeroWeDeserve wrote: I don't think anyone will deny that the OSL format produced extraordinary tournaments in BW. The question here is will the format translate just as well to SC2. If the argument is that it won't because SC2 is more random, then its extremely relevant how much variance there is in each of the two games. The stats so far suggest that there is probably less variance in HotS than BW. If your argument is that the OSL has had it all wrong from the beginning and should have been doing bo3's for the last 10 years then that's an entirely different discussion Noooo i would never say that! Like you said, back in BW BO1s where fine, the game wasn't as stupidly easy for a Masters player to pull off a 11/11 or a bane bust/roach all in as it is in SC2. On June 13 2013 17:47 Ragnarork wrote: Where did I say that what they're doing is right ? The guy was suggesting that OSL should be left to die, but that is surely wrong. On June 13 2013 17:43 HeroWeDeserve wrote: Yeah, but the point is that the game isn't as random as people tend to believe. The top players are likely going to lose less often in a HotS bo1 than in a BW bo1 Uh oh, I wouldn't say that at all... Yeah it defiantly doesn't deserve to be left to die of course not. But like im saying Blizzard should of made it set rules for every region lol. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12041 Posts
Going back to what I've already said. If you die to a baneling bust, then well you played too greedy and you deserved the loss. Play more conservatively and you won't die to cheese. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On June 13 2013 17:52 ACrow wrote: That's some interesting stats, thanks for bringing that up Innovation is doing really well right now, whereas career stats also include some lesser periods. 72% over a 5 year time span is more impressive than 75% over a two month time span. | ||
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niekoz
Netherlands350 Posts
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
On June 13 2013 17:57 Qikz wrote: Maybe it's just me, but I've always hated the GSL format. I don't like there being two group stages and I especially don't like the Ro32 being Bo3. The games go on for far too long and although it's likely the better player will win anyway in a Bo3, the better player will usually win the first game anyway, making the entire format obselete. Going back to what I've already said. If you die to a baneling bust, then well you played too greedy and you deserved the loss. Play more conservatively and you won't die to cheese. The best TvZ players have been losing to all ins since forever because they have to play greedy and its such a thin line to walk. Just look at GSL finals. Its not as simple as saying "just play safe". | ||
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c0olL
129 Posts
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killer1nz
New Zealand164 Posts
On June 13 2013 18:02 Fjodorov wrote: The best TvZ players have been losing to all ins since forever because they have to play greedy and its such a thin line to walk. Just look at GSL finals. Its not as simple as saying "just play safe". what difference would a bo3 make if people were to just gamble with their builds then?... | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12041 Posts
On June 13 2013 18:02 Fjodorov wrote: The best TvZ players have been losing to all ins since forever because they have to play greedy and its such a thin line to walk. Just look at GSL finals. Its not as simple as saying "just play safe". They don't have to play greedy, I know the metagame is to go three CC, but if you open with a tank or two tanks, you hold off pretty much every all in and I know that from opening Reaper - 3CC - into mech every single TvZ. The zergs who go for roach bane all ins won't be able to be pushed and they won't have a load of drones, so surely it's better to just get those tanks since you're going to be in the same situation you would have been, just with more defense. It's better to play safe and not use coinflippy builds if you want to win. If you lose to an all in which you could have defended then you're not the best player. | ||
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
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