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OSL Ro32 groups + format - Page 23

Forum Index > SC2 General
778 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 39 Next All
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5617 Posts
June 13 2013 09:11 GMT
#441
map score will NOT be used as a tie-breaker


oh yes. finally a sensible tournament format.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2147 Posts
June 13 2013 09:12 GMT
#442
8 Terrans. Nice
And really hope Flash can take a title for once!
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
June 13 2013 09:12 GMT
#443
On June 13 2013 18:04 killer1nz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2013 18:02 Fjodorov wrote:
On June 13 2013 17:57 Qikz wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but I've always hated the GSL format. I don't like there being two group stages and I especially don't like the Ro32 being Bo3. The games go on for far too long and although it's likely the better player will win anyway in a Bo3, the better player will usually win the first game anyway, making the entire format obselete.

Going back to what I've already said. If you die to a baneling bust, then well you played too greedy and you deserved the loss. Play more conservatively and you won't die to cheese.


The best TvZ players have been losing to all ins since forever because they have to play greedy and its such a thin line to walk. Just look at GSL finals. Its not as simple as saying "just play safe".


what difference would a bo3 make if people were to just gamble with their builds then?...


Why is it so hard to understand? The best players arent playing againt total noobs. And what to you mean with gamble? If you know your opponent is a very strong macro player and good at late game then it would be more of a gamble to play a macro game. Being one of the best players in sc2 doesnt mean you hold every all in, not even close. Im just sying its silly to think you can "just play safe" in sc2 GSL/OSL and win anyway because you are that much better.
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
June 13 2013 09:14 GMT
#444
On June 13 2013 18:09 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2013 18:02 Fjodorov wrote:
On June 13 2013 17:57 Qikz wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but I've always hated the GSL format. I don't like there being two group stages and I especially don't like the Ro32 being Bo3. The games go on for far too long and although it's likely the better player will win anyway in a Bo3, the better player will usually win the first game anyway, making the entire format obselete.

Going back to what I've already said. If you die to a baneling bust, then well you played too greedy and you deserved the loss. Play more conservatively and you won't die to cheese.


The best TvZ players have been losing to all ins since forever because they have to play greedy and its such a thin line to walk. Just look at GSL finals. Its not as simple as saying "just play safe".


They don't have to play greedy, I know the metagame is to go three CC, but if you open with a tank or two tanks, you hold off pretty much every all in and I know that from opening Reaper - 3CC - into mech every single TvZ. The zergs who go for roach bane all ins won't be able to be pushed and they won't have a load of drones, so surely it's better to just get those tanks since you're going to be in the same situation you would have been, just with more defense.

It's better to play safe and not use coinflippy builds if you want to win. If you lose to an all in which you could have defended then you're not the best player.


dude come on.. by the time you push out the zerg is on 5 bases and you are fucked. As i said earlier, these guys arent scrubs.
HeroWeDeserve
Profile Joined June 2013
69 Posts
June 13 2013 09:14 GMT
#445
On June 13 2013 18:11 Elroi wrote:
Show nested quote +
map score will NOT be used as a tie-breaker


oh yes. finally a sensible tournament format.

Going to laugh so hard if a Korean Air group D tiebreaker scenario happens with bo3's.
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5617 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-13 09:15:56
June 13 2013 09:15 GMT
#446
Regarding the bo1. When people get better at playing the game it gets less luck based. Just watch Flash in PL. He is currently 15-2... And its probably going to become more stable.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-13 09:18:37
June 13 2013 09:17 GMT
#447
If aligulac can be trusted:

    (2072) INnoVation  0-0  Shine (1176)         
-------------------------------------------------
82.96% 1-0 0-1 17.04%
-------------------------------------------------
82.96% 17.04%

Median outcome: INnoVation 1-0 Shine
Estimated by Aligulac. Modify.

vs

    (2072) INnoVation  0-0  Shine (1176)         
-------------------------------------------------
68.82% 2-0 0-2 2.90%
23.46% 2-1 1-2 4.82%
-------------------------------------------------
92.28% 7.72%

Median outcome: INnoVation 2-0 Shine
Estimated by Aligulac. Modify.

About a 10% difference.

Another example

     (1822) Soulkey  0-0  RagnaroK (1427)    
---------------------------------------------
66.71% 1-0 0-1 33.29%
---------------------------------------------
66.71% 33.29%

Median outcome: Soulkey 1-0 RagnaroK
Estimated by Aligulac. Modify.

     (1822) Soulkey  0-0  RagnaroK (1427)    
---------------------------------------------
44.50% 2-0 0-2 11.08%
29.63% 2-1 1-2 14.79%
---------------------------------------------
74.13% 25.87%

Median outcome: Soulkey 2-1 RagnaroK
Estimated by Aligulac. Modify.

Around an 8% difference.

Up to you whether you think that ~10% is significant enough to say that Bo1 is unequivocally worse than Bo3, taking into consideration all factors such as time and scheduling.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
June 13 2013 09:18 GMT
#448
On June 13 2013 18:15 Elroi wrote:
Regarding the bo1. When people get better at playing the game it gets less luck based. Just watch Flash in PL. He is currently 15-2... And its probably going to become more stable.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/hots/players/424_Flash/games/during/3724_2012-2013_SPL

he's 19-9 in hots PL so far afaik
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
SoulHarvester
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada151 Posts
June 13 2013 09:19 GMT
#449
Bo1 is a joke...
funKy_KroK
Profile Joined June 2009
France101 Posts
June 13 2013 09:19 GMT
#450
I totally understand the complaints about the Bo1 phase
and I find really strange to change the WCS format during the year

but to me it's not an OGN idea or a respect for the old BW format, I guess they just cant have too much SC2 on their TV program for all this time

OGN watchers aren't only SC2 watchers
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12043 Posts
June 13 2013 09:21 GMT
#451
On June 13 2013 18:14 Fjodorov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2013 18:09 Qikz wrote:
On June 13 2013 18:02 Fjodorov wrote:
On June 13 2013 17:57 Qikz wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but I've always hated the GSL format. I don't like there being two group stages and I especially don't like the Ro32 being Bo3. The games go on for far too long and although it's likely the better player will win anyway in a Bo3, the better player will usually win the first game anyway, making the entire format obselete.

Going back to what I've already said. If you die to a baneling bust, then well you played too greedy and you deserved the loss. Play more conservatively and you won't die to cheese.


The best TvZ players have been losing to all ins since forever because they have to play greedy and its such a thin line to walk. Just look at GSL finals. Its not as simple as saying "just play safe".


They don't have to play greedy, I know the metagame is to go three CC, but if you open with a tank or two tanks, you hold off pretty much every all in and I know that from opening Reaper - 3CC - into mech every single TvZ. The zergs who go for roach bane all ins won't be able to be pushed and they won't have a load of drones, so surely it's better to just get those tanks since you're going to be in the same situation you would have been, just with more defense.

It's better to play safe and not use coinflippy builds if you want to win. If you lose to an all in which you could have defended then you're not the best player.


dude come on.. by the time you push out the zerg is on 5 bases and you are fucked. As i said earlier, these guys arent scrubs.


If you think opening with one tank means the zerg magically can take 5 bases then quite clearly you're being hyperbolic to try and "put down" the format that would work perfectly fine in SC2.

I've seen Fantasy, Flash and Innovation all at different times open with a few tanks and still do their parade pushes, it's just they don't do it every game and they still lose to roach bane.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
June 13 2013 09:22 GMT
#452
On June 13 2013 18:15 Elroi wrote:
Regarding the bo1. When people get better at playing the game it gets less luck based. Just watch Flash in PL. He is currently 15-2... And its probably going to become more stable.


But then Soulkey is 13-6 [] Innovation 17-5 yet he hardly loses in BO3s as you are probably aware. sOs arguably the best protoss in the world right now is 10-7 in SPL BO1s
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
energized
Profile Joined April 2011
Croatia117 Posts
June 13 2013 09:26 GMT
#453
So you lose 2 maps and you are on the verge or falling to code B.
Also one group per day is like 5 sets and you count in a Protoss hevy group and you are done in about half an hour.
"Energy never dies..."
mechengineer123
Profile Joined March 2013
Ukraine711 Posts
June 13 2013 09:30 GMT
#454
Well bo1 is obviously a joke, but they already gave their statements about it and they know people hate it, so it's time to stop whining about it.

How did these players qualify? Is it just the GSL list, or did they also seed some high ranked PL players? Tnx

Hard to say who's gonna win with bo1, so random, so let's just enjoy the show :D
Daswollvieh
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
5553 Posts
June 13 2013 09:34 GMT
#455
Cool to see that except for NSH all Korean teams are represented.
oneill12
Profile Joined February 2012
Romania1222 Posts
June 13 2013 09:35 GMT
#456
BO1 SO SAD
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-13 09:39:14
June 13 2013 09:38 GMT
#457
On June 13 2013 18:30 mechengineer123 wrote:
Well bo1 is obviously a joke, but they already gave their statements about it and they know people hate it, so it's time to stop whining about it.

How did these players qualify? Is it just the GSL list, or did they also seed some high ranked PL players? Tnx

Hard to say who's gonna win with bo1, so random, so let's just enjoy the show :D

It's the continuation of WCS Korea S1 (last "GSL"), so everybody who obtained Premiere status there gets to play. Code A will be produced in parallel this season by GOM btw. So by all means it should be a OSL branded GSL, which is the whole idea behind WCS, no reason to mess with the format, you ruin all sense of continuity just for pride.
Get off my lawn, young punks
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
June 13 2013 09:39 GMT
#458
Seriously... I don't even...
Aflixion
Profile Joined August 2010
United States191 Posts
June 13 2013 09:41 GMT
#459
On June 13 2013 18:30 mechengineer123 wrote:
How did these players qualify? Is it just the GSL list, or did they also seed some high ranked PL players?


This is WCS KR Season 2 more than it is OSL. Blizzard is just allowing them to still call it GSL and OSL. Think of this as OGN running GSL Code S for a season.

Which is why I'm so pissed about the format change. If I knew it was going to be Bo1, I wouldn't have bothered buying a ticket from GOM for it.
Kylo55
Profile Joined April 2012
Poland64 Posts
June 13 2013 09:44 GMT
#460
I don't get it, if they make group stage bo1 in dual tournament because they don't have enough time to make it bo3, then why they make group stage 2 round robin which obviously takes longer than dual (1 extra match, possible tie).

Well i guess that if i would look at stats the player that wins first game probably wins the bo 3, 70% of the time but still don't like it :/
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