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On June 10 2013 23:52 Eviscerador wrote:
Everyone miss the Reaver.
Blizzard make something similar to reaver micro control with the hellbats medevac micro.
Everyone complains.
Fuck logic.
One is cheap, tough and has the versatility to be used in many stages of the game.
The other is expensive, weak and has limited usefulness as the game proceeds.
How's that for logic?
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Ugh... recently I practice vs reality and he multitask multiple hellbat drop and macro very well, much like innovation can do. Even game where I only lose 2-4 worker, mining time lost puts zerg too far behind to win. Needs maybe 10-25 hp nerf, and or upgrade for the light damage. Anybody who think hellbat is not too cost efficient is just silly...
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On June 11 2013 00:40 claybones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 23:52 Eviscerador wrote:
Everyone miss the Reaver.
Blizzard make something similar to reaver micro control with the hellbats medevac micro.
Everyone complains.
Fuck logic.
One is cheap, tough and has the versatility to be used in many stages of the game. The other is expensive, weak and has limited usefulness as the game proceeds. How's that for logic?
And I'm pretty sure people wanted the Reaver because the Colossus is so shit.
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You either come out way ahead or even with hellbat drops, you almost never come out far enough behind to matter. The risk/reward is totally skewed.
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hellbat is fine imo, i dont even use them anymore in tvt, and with a bit of attention and preparation, i dont feel someone evenly matched can really hurt me with it (ok only platinum, but that means only platinum hellbatopponents)
in fact i am always surprised when progamers reorder their workers to the minerals way too fast or move chunks of them right through the hellbat, sure i move my worker not really efficient and probably too far away... but at least i dont run them back into hellfire...
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On June 11 2013 00:44 VirtuallyJesse wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 00:40 claybones wrote:On June 10 2013 23:52 Eviscerador wrote:
Everyone miss the Reaver.
Blizzard make something similar to reaver micro control with the hellbats medevac micro.
Everyone complains.
Fuck logic.
One is cheap, tough and has the versatility to be used in many stages of the game. The other is expensive, weak and has limited usefulness as the game proceeds. How's that for logic? And I'm pretty sure people wanted the Reaver because the Colossus is so shit.
I would take the Reaver. Hell, give it half damage from what it was in BW and I would still take it. I would be getting speed prisms and dropping that thing all over the place. Warp in some zealots, fire off some insta-worker killing blue balls of glitter and death.
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On June 11 2013 01:08 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 00:44 VirtuallyJesse wrote:On June 11 2013 00:40 claybones wrote:On June 10 2013 23:52 Eviscerador wrote:
Everyone miss the Reaver.
Blizzard make something similar to reaver micro control with the hellbats medevac micro.
Everyone complains.
Fuck logic.
One is cheap, tough and has the versatility to be used in many stages of the game. The other is expensive, weak and has limited usefulness as the game proceeds. How's that for logic? And I'm pretty sure people wanted the Reaver because the Colossus is so shit. I would take the Reaver. Hell, give it half damage from what it was in BW and I would still take it. I would be getting speed prisms and dropping that thing all over the place. Warp in some zealots, fire off some insta-worker killing blue balls of glitter and death.
Reavers would give protoss a high damage unit that has actual tradeoffs and thought required to use it correctly. Reaver micro was incredibly demanding and rewarding if you got a nice hit off on a worker line. Colossi are just really good almost regardless.
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The Reaver would be balanced if scarabs cost the same as a hellbat.
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On June 11 2013 01:15 Ysellian wrote:
The Reaver would be balanced if scarabs cost the same as a hellbat.
Or if they were incredibly slow and had a large delay after getting dropped.
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On June 11 2013 00:32 mishimaBeef wrote:
Remove the +light bonus until blue flame is upgraded.
i like this idea, small but significant change
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On June 11 2013 01:13 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 01:08 Plansix wrote:On June 11 2013 00:44 VirtuallyJesse wrote:On June 11 2013 00:40 claybones wrote:On June 10 2013 23:52 Eviscerador wrote:
Everyone miss the Reaver.
Blizzard make something similar to reaver micro control with the hellbats medevac micro.
Everyone complains.
Fuck logic.
One is cheap, tough and has the versatility to be used in many stages of the game. The other is expensive, weak and has limited usefulness as the game proceeds. How's that for logic? And I'm pretty sure people wanted the Reaver because the Colossus is so shit. I would take the Reaver. Hell, give it half damage from what it was in BW and I would still take it. I would be getting speed prisms and dropping that thing all over the place. Warp in some zealots, fire off some insta-worker killing blue balls of glitter and death. Reavers would give protoss a high damage unit that has actual tradeoffs and thought required to use it correctly. Reaver micro was incredibly demanding and rewarding if you got a nice hit off on a worker line. Colossi are just really good almost regardless.
My god. I just checked and Reavers costed 200/100 in BW. Why did they have to ruin it by making its attack terrible, putting it on stilts, and making it cost 300/200?
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On June 11 2013 01:16 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 01:15 Ysellian wrote:
The Reaver would be balanced if scarabs cost the same as a hellbat. Or if they were incredibly slow and had a large delay after getting dropped.
lol. 2 sentries + reavers change things completely from BW. Oh and warp-ins to support the reavers.
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On June 11 2013 01:22 Fig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 01:13 Serpico wrote:On June 11 2013 01:08 Plansix wrote:On June 11 2013 00:44 VirtuallyJesse wrote:On June 11 2013 00:40 claybones wrote:On June 10 2013 23:52 Eviscerador wrote:
Everyone miss the Reaver.
Blizzard make something similar to reaver micro control with the hellbats medevac micro.
Everyone complains.
Fuck logic.
One is cheap, tough and has the versatility to be used in many stages of the game. The other is expensive, weak and has limited usefulness as the game proceeds. How's that for logic? And I'm pretty sure people wanted the Reaver because the Colossus is so shit. I would take the Reaver. Hell, give it half damage from what it was in BW and I would still take it. I would be getting speed prisms and dropping that thing all over the place. Warp in some zealots, fire off some insta-worker killing blue balls of glitter and death. Reavers would give protoss a high damage unit that has actual tradeoffs and thought required to use it correctly. Reaver micro was incredibly demanding and rewarding if you got a nice hit off on a worker line. Colossi are just really good almost regardless. My god. I just checked and Reavers costed 200/100 in BW. Why did they have to ruin it by making its attack terrible, putting it on stilts, and making it cost 300/200?
Yeah, the cost of two Hydralisk in SC2. I'll take that any day of the week and love it. Even if they did half damage, they could still one shot a blob of workers so good.
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On June 11 2013 01:31 Ysellian wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 01:16 Serpico wrote:On June 11 2013 01:15 Ysellian wrote:
The Reaver would be balanced if scarabs cost the same as a hellbat. Or if they were incredibly slow and had a large delay after getting dropped. lol. 2 sentries + reavers change things completely from BW. Oh and warp-ins to support the reavers.
If we're going to act like reavers would just be copy and pasted then you have to keep their same pathing and glitched shots too I guess, but colossi would be a better unit then.
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On June 11 2013 01:32 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 01:31 Ysellian wrote:On June 11 2013 01:16 Serpico wrote:On June 11 2013 01:15 Ysellian wrote:
The Reaver would be balanced if scarabs cost the same as a hellbat. Or if they were incredibly slow and had a large delay after getting dropped. lol. 2 sentries + reavers change things completely from BW. Oh and warp-ins to support the reavers. If we're going to act like reavers would just be copy and pasted then you have to keep their same pathing and glitched shots too I guess, but colossi would be a better unit then.
I don't know, the idea of reavers in Sc2 scares the shit out of me regardless of their lack of mobility and glitches  I'd much rather play against the current colossi than a reaver.
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I have a rather interesting idea:
You can't build hellbats.
After the armory is finished one hellion and one SCV can fusion into a hellbat.
-->explains more HP
-->explains bio tag
-->could be reversed to release SCVs for repair duty
-->explains higher cargo slot
The numbers should be balanced around the increased cost.
Hellbats are "self inflicted" harassment, similar to SCVs for bunker rushes or certain all ins.
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On June 10 2013 21:53 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 05:48 Big G wrote:
Just tweak the damage so +1 weapons upgrade or blue flame is required to 2-shot workers.
That would take a DPS nerf of 1/3. There is no way that unit would be worth using after that.
Nerf the damage and increase the rate of fire.
--> DPS stays the same, less front loaded damage, more reaction time for defender
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1) Reduce the AoE cone until blue flame.
2) Remove +light until blue flame.
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I'm disapointed by all my Terran brothers voting against the hellbat. It's one of the coolest units in HOTS. If you don't want to adjust your play style, play WOL. So poll should be on 33%.
Protoss players. You guys get a mothership core which can activate phototon overcharge while being 10 range away from the nexus. Early storm builds are great vs medi drops and everyone should be doing them because it's no longer risky to tech storm on 2 base. Almost all protoss get at least 1 forge. Leave a cannon in the mineral line and you shut them down even harder. The options are endless, and once you stop a couple drops in their tracks, you just take a third and chrono out 3-3 before they get 2-2 because they invested in hellbat drops... So poll should read 66%.
Zerg players have it the worse. They have to scout it coming and prepare queen/roach/spore defense. But if you scout it and prepare, you will leave the terran in a bad spot. The idea that hellbat drops "cost nothing" is just ridiculous. The opportunity cost of going hellbats is a much later third and double e-bay. If you do the queen/spore/roach defense, you can keep full 3 base saturation going, while the terran is still on 2 base.
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On June 11 2013 01:59 TRaFFiC wrote:
I'm disapointed by all my Terran brothers voting against the hellbat. It's one of the coolest units in HOTS. If you don't want to adjust your play style, play WOL. So poll should be on 33%.
Protoss players. You guys get a mothership core which can activate phototon overcharge while being 10 range away from the nexus. Early storm builds are great vs medi drops and everyone should be doing them because it's no longer risky to tech storm on 2 base. Almost all protoss get at least 1 forge. Leave a cannon in the mineral line and you shut them down even harder. The options are endless, and once you stop a couple drops in their tracks, you just take a third and chrono out 3-3 before they get 2-2 because they invested in hellbat drops... So poll should read 66%.
Zerg players have it the worse. They have to scout it coming and prepare queen/roach/spore defense. But if you scout it and prepare, you will leave the terran in a bad spot. The idea that hellbat drops "cost nothing" is just ridiculous. The opportunity cost of going hellbats is a much later third and double e-bay. If you do the queen/spore/roach defense, you can keep full 3 base saturation going, while the terran is still on 2 base.
Maybe some Terran players don't like a hellbat-dominated metagame? Just because you can fight it off doesn't mean it makes the game more fun in its current state.
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EPT
