EPTHellbats Review - Page 28
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contaminant.237
Canada13 Posts
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Godly
United States1 Post
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On June 10 2013 23:07 Vanadiel wrote: Well, then the question is to ask wether it is normal if it's a standard. it's seems to me, from my understanding of the game, that it's a build that either win you the game right when it's done, put you way ahead when it's done or, worst case scenario, a little bit behind and then the game continue. Proxy 2 rax, proxy reaper, good old 2 factory blue flame hellion and so on are all build that can also finish the game, but they are more risks involved to do it, defending them put you ahead, the ratio between reward/risk seems too big for the HB drop compared to other build. the difference is hellbat drop pretty much goes down to skill and your opponent being good at the game while a 2rax proxi is more of a flat out coinflip that loses or wins depending on your opponents build. nexus=>stargate oracle can win you games if your opponent doesnt have 6 marines in position in the right location or doesnt have missile turrets up just like a hellbat drop can win the game. arriving with mutas without defenses can win you the game aswell. all of these things doesnt have to deal damage if you do them macro-oriented after expanding while doing them on 1base (or 2base muta) means you need to do serious damage. starcraft 2 is just a game where you can lose just like that if your not good enough, these things doesnt have to kill you - but they can. its heavy blow harassment that are macro oriented. an oracle helps you in the macro game alot, so does a medivac and hellbats and so does mutalisks. a cloak banshee or dark templar rush or nydus networks are more in the category of allin because they are outside of the tools you want to have in the standard game | ||
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
1. The cost effectiveness and potential risk/reward payoff everyone is talking about. It is just almost always a good gamble to risk 200 minerals for the chance to basically win the game. Even if nothing happens, what did you really lose? 2. The hellbat, stat-wise, is sort of an uber unit right now. Its original design was sold as a cheap unit for terran mech that could absorb damage for the more expensive units (tanks/thors), as well as deal with very zealot heavy play against protoss (which tended to destroy mech pretty easily in WoL). That is why it was given biological, so medivacs could heal it while it "tanked" damage for the... tanks. Then people realized if you put them in a medivac (esp back when you could fit 4 in), it became an insta-win if the opponent wasn't watching their mineral line. Its sort of "accidentally" the best harass unit terran has now (and they have amazing harass units). Now, I have no problem with units being used outside of their "intended" role, but they can't be amazing at everything; that just isn't balanced. Right now the hellbat is that tanky front line unit for mech, but it also just happens to outshine basically every other harassment option in the game as well. That is too strong of a unit. | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On June 10 2013 23:06 Sated wrote: I didn't realise that the OED changed the meaning of "everyone". Sorry. As a pro player he is obviously going be talking about the peers he plays with/against, other pro players. Not that other levels of player won't improve at stopping them. | ||
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willstertben
427 Posts
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Eviscerador
Spain286 Posts
Blizzard make something similar to reaver micro control with the hellbats medevac micro. Everyone complains. Fuck logic. PS: As a zerg, a single spore and a spine & queen per mineral line is enough for deterrent hellbats drops. Good ovie positioning and just retreat the drones. Clean the mess (the medivac will die with the spore) and keep mining. | ||
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Rossbacher
28 Posts
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Shibunbundit
Bulgaria22 Posts
And yes, I won some games with this strat.I don't think whinning about hellbat drops OP is an adequate thing to do.You just have to play more (get better).Even progamers do NOT know/play the game at its potential.In the begining of HotS I was thinking that Hellbats are too slow to be used effectively along with my bio play, so I thought terrans should pick up hellbats into medivacs and use their burners (so hellbats becomes really fast) and you can deploy them in the right position in the begininig of an engagement. So the more micro, the more effectivness you get.And in recent weeks we/I saw some top tier terrans exploit this.I personally think that the game is quite interesting this way and there's no need of changes neither buff, nor nerf. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 10 2013 23:52 Eviscerador wrote: Everyone miss the Reaver. Blizzard make something similar to reaver micro control with the hellbats medevac micro. Everyone complains. Fuck logic. PS: As a zerg, a single spore and a spine & queen per mineral line is enough for deterrent hellbats drops. Good ovie positioning and just retreat the drones. Clean the mess (the medivac will die with the spore) and keep mining. To be fair, a lot of people asking for the Reaver to be brought back didn't really know what they were asking for. That thing would make the Hellbat easy to stop. Reavers wouldn't even need to go into the mineral line. It would be like a widow mine that could fire from farther away without burrowing and did more damage. | ||
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Xequecal
United States473 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:19 Xequecal wrote: Didn't Reavers in BW require two hits to kill workers? That by itself would mitigate the damage extensively as neither the Reaver nor the prism/shuttle would be able to run the fleeing workers down after the first shot. It could one a shot a blob of works if they were close enough together. It could also shoot glitter if it bugged out. The Reaver was a harsh mistress. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:24 Sated wrote: You probably have to take into account the fact that workers were far harder to run away in BW. In any case, the Reaver worked more like a Widow Mine drop than a Hellbat drop, right..? The damage was widow mine-like, but the micro was similar to hellbats, drop, pick up, reposition, drop, pick up, etc. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:26 Daswollvieh wrote: The damage was widow mine-like, but the micro was similar to hellbats, drop, pick up, reposition, drop, pick up, etc. I'm not gonna enter the debate because it's pointless, but if you want to compare units from differents games, might as well think about the unit walk speed, building time, costs, tech, AI... | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:26 Daswollvieh wrote: The damage was widow mine-like, but the micro was similar to hellbats, drop, pick up, reposition, drop, pick up, etc. And the Reaver did 100 Splash Damage and workers had similar health to what they do in SC2. The amount of damage one could do was life ruining. I never player BW at any reasonable level at all, but I did know that reavers drops were the thing of nightmares. Speed shuttles moved at warp speed across your 640x480 display and dropped a tiny hate cannon down in your base. In many ways, hellbat drops look tame compared to that. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:01 Shibunbundit wrote: Well, I am gold/platinum terran player and I haven't lost a game to hellbat drops. And yes, I won some games with this strat.I don't think whinning about hellbat drops OP is an adequate thing to do.You just have to play more (get better).Even progamers do NOT know/play the game at its potential.In the begining of HotS I was thinking that Hellbats are too slow to be used effectively along with my bio play, so I thought terrans should pick up hellbats into medivacs and use their burners (so hellbats becomes really fast) and you can deploy them in the right position in the begininig of an engagement. So the more micro, the more effectivness you get.And in recent weeks we/I saw some top tier terrans exploit this.I personally think that the game is quite interesting this way and there's no need of changes neither buff, nor nerf. If you're a beginner, you don't have much room to say "I can deal with it just fine. The pros need to get better" | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:34 fdsdfg wrote: If you're a beginner, you don't have much room to say "I can deal with it just fine. The pros need to get better" No, he is saying, "I deal with it fine and pros seem to have it in hand too. People who are whining might want to look at their own play." | ||
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