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I wish there was more efforts put towards content, analysis, OBJECTIVITY and professionalism.
I feel bad for the guys who cast from home and think this criticism is being directed towards them. I have deep respect for the efforts they put into it.
It is the opposite for those who wear a tie and suit in front of the camera; you are not allowed to suck and use the vocabulary of a 15 yrs old teen ( -''those ff's were sickkkk mannn'' ).
Also when I watch the fuckin SC2 world championships and I have the impression that Madals has a mancrush on Johnny Recco it pisses me off. ( see the word in caps )
I liked Tod and Kaelaris from WCS EU for those reasons. TB+Idra is the shit as well (even though they are not wearing a tie in studio but meh ).
I am noticing that my favorite casting pairs are the ones who are made of a guy that does description that has more of a host/journalist role and a player that knows his shit and has good analysis skills.
anyways I think that the OP nailed it right on the head
5/5
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Northern Ireland174 Posts
Great post, hope some producers are reading this ! 
For me I think when you want to get professional and insightful casting you need to have ex-progamers doing the casting. If you don't play the game at a high enough level commentation on games is just drivel and I often find myself seeking out the mute button. I don't play anywhere close to a pro but if I pay for a subscription I want professional commentation on the mind games and strategies employed by each player in the games. Not play by play, it ain't fucking radio.
If your not Master League or higher (EU/KR) you should not be a professional caster.
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I've been having trouble enjoying Starcraft content lately and the way you phrase it is exactly why.
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On June 08 2013 07:03 GolemMadness wrote:Hype videos are lame and uncreative these days. Blizzard should hire Nukethestars. + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iojHrTqA2gw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eAasTQLdsU
Not a bad start!
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On June 08 2013 04:13 CatsPajamas wrote:
Hey everyone! This is actually really great feedback for us. I'd like to talk a little about the process here and let you know how we're incorporating the feedback:
1.) WCS Today started as a quick recap show, meant to show you everything you missed from the day before and get you ready for the upcoming matches. However, since the launch of our new WCS Portal, that focus mostly changes now as you can go to a site and catch up on everything you've missed.
2.) Going forward, we're going to evaluate all the comments and criticism here to implement into future episodes. We definitely feel the focus should steer more towards telling the story of the players, and we'll work to improve.
I've passed on the criticism to the entire core team here and we're reviewing to see how we can improve.
Thanks!
Kevin
Please come back to casting events Kevin. Really enjoyed your IPL work!
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That cheesy fan-made video gave me total nerdchills anyway.
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On June 08 2013 04:13 CatsPajamas wrote:
Hey everyone! This is actually really great feedback for us. I'd like to talk a little about the process here and let you know how we're incorporating the feedback:
1.) WCS Today started as a quick recap show, meant to show you everything you missed from the day before and get you ready for the upcoming matches. However, since the launch of our new WCS Portal, that focus mostly changes now as you can go to a site and catch up on everything you've missed.
2.) Going forward, we're going to evaluate all the comments and criticism here to implement into future episodes. We definitely feel the focus should steer more towards telling the story of the players, and we'll work to improve.
I've passed on the criticism to the entire core team here and we're reviewing to see how we can improve.
Thanks!
Kevin
Great to see you casting again! I have to agree with everyone else here- patterning the WCS Today off of SportsCenter (which follows the "highlights until the end, then final score" formula for every single game) would totally work for SC2. That formula is pretty interesting and fun, as with games you missed (but don't plan to watch), you get a sort of 30-second synopsis that can be significantly more rewarding than just reading the scoreline. Showing the highlights and turning points of each game also facilitates "watercooler conversation", which has been a driving force in the popularity of mainstream sports for 50 years. With SC2 that isn't quite happening yet (though I do have some friends to talk pro SC2 with), but it would facilitate "TL cooler discussion" better.
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Need to start providing replays too, such a decline in pro player replays..
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Very good article.
Maybe this time the community will not massively answer by "but they are doing their job!"...
I think we can add the fact that foreigners casters are lacking of a kinda of energy/enthousiasm in their casting compare to KR.
I already said it before but i think they should try the trio formula. It adds more rythm, u have less time to talk so u dont fill time with meaningless bs, etc.. It must be tested.
We have some ersatz of it in HSC, wich is btw one of my favorite tournament because all said in the OP, and its pretty cool.
I watch PL and GSL mostly in KR language even if i dont understand it. But since 2000 ive been watching so many BW games casted with this language... it sounds very familiar. Its weird....
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On June 08 2013 06:34 purgerinho wrote:
all of you should stop with comparing sport commentators with sc2 commentators because level of organization is different, sports have more tradition, strategies and known informations than few months old hots.. and you are comparing team sports to 1v1 e-sport, cmon! you can't commentate 3-4-5-6 tennis matches in a day and there is only few big tournaments in a year with four (+/- one) players that will beat everyone... and it lasts for years, informations are more accessible etc, etc, etc.. during match there are breaks (rounds in MMA and other fighting sports) so you can watch replays and predict what will (maybe) happen next and what were mistakes. Most important thing is that they have time to get some air and find good words. In sc2 you have no time, you have to react in second and most of those guys aren't professionals
compare them with individual sports.. i mean, you can hear so much BS when you are watching UFC and those guys are paid much more money, they have months to prepare and less players (fighters) to analyze.. and in the end, it is individual sport so some individual could do something you saw for a first time.. try to guess what will dimaga do when you are watching him.. and AGAIN, hots is a few months old game, sc2 is less than 3yrs old game and every sport you are talking about is "here" for decades..
this is a good OP but it is a bit unfair, just like comments...
i agree with the op but this post has some merit to it, especially the point about ufc commentating being shit. there are actually a lot of similarities such as stating the obvious (gsp is better/stronger in x than some other guy, or that y is going to go for the take down while z is a striker and has to avoid it [no shit]) etc that gets ragged on the entire fight. what they do
right though is using buzzwords + expectations = he's looking to be aggressive by striking x's lead foot to take him off balance etc. sc2 commentators should tell us how a player is looking to play if he's playing aggressively/passively. even better if they can tell us what a specific player likes to do (prefers to roach bling all in, prefers muta harass, prefers to 14cc)
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God damn it Golem that Chance of Snow video has me crying tears right now it's so fucking epic and classy.
Why can't we have something like that? Nukethestars so amazing.
Oh my god Jaedong walking down the aisle to the stage literally shaking shit's too awesome.
Oh my god both those videos bring back so much holy shit...I think we've lost that sense of pure epicness in SCII right now. Ofc Nukethestars is just fucking amazing but still. We need to start glorifying the players way, way more.
Holy crap Chance of Snow is probably the most classy hype video I've ever seen. I've watched it 5 times now lol.
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Problem 2: Buzzwords, meaningless compliments and cliches about players
This is actually a big problem about casters who do not know what they are talking about. They think too much about they hype, forgetting that it is the game that we want to watch and enjoy.
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I imagine there is a positive correlation between the quality of the casts and the amount the casters are paid. Now imagine for a moment that casters are, by and large, paid the same amount as a home depot employee would you still be demanding high standards of them? Given this and the nature of what they are commentating on (huge down time, vast swathes of games in which nothing is happening, 20 minute long drawn out build order losses) I think that in most cases the casting is more than adequate.
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To read this thread you would think that what people want is only technical information about builds and strategies. Having a good obs and an engaging play-by-play guy is important too.
On June 08 2013 05:28 Xahhk wrote:
Speaking loudly and excitedly during every engagement is also counterproductive
I like it when they get excited at times when there's a lot going on or there's a big mistake. It reflects my own excitement.
On June 08 2013 04:19 ROOTNathanias wrote:
The only bit I can offer is that as someone who literally only consumes SC2 Content (no TV, books, other games, etc) 24/7, we are expected to know a ridiculous amount of information off-hand at any given moment... its frustratingly difficult to stay on top of things like go4sc2cup results when it comes to the aforementioned Krass vs Harstem match. Keep in mind the only people who are paid to cast are the ones you see at live events 99% of the time, or if they have a studio like MLG or ESL.
I think another hindrance is that while I don't mind doing research, almost none of us have production like GOM that will feed us those interesting per map/race stats. Even if I'm busy casting another part of an event, and miss a series where Vibe does a new ZvP build, suddenly I'm a terrible caster for not knowing this was the game 3 all-in he did at the last dream hack.
Haha! you're totally right about the potential reaction to your missing that one build. That's an interesting post. It's easy to forget that the 'knowledgeable' television commentators have a team of researchers feeding them interesting information.
Consuming only sc2 content sounds like an unimaginable horror.
On June 08 2013 04:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I think actually bringing in a different style of casting or commentating would in fact align with the industry making money. I suspect it's more a problem of identifying and deciding to solve the problem than whether or not anyone actually wants to solve it. I'm pretty sure everyone involved wants a good cast.
Imagine going up to DJWheat and Apollo before a cast and saying, 'ok, Marcus, I want you to stick to the play-by-play and keep an eye on Sean in case he wants to add some detail, Sean, just keep quiet and signal when you want to add something so that Marcus can bring you in. P.S. Try to make it seem natural and like you're having a friendly chat about the game'.That would be super awkward.
After you've seen a thousand games it must be difficult just to remember what happened in the last game you saw. Especially as for the first 2 minutes of every game you need to find something to say to fill the space.
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Casters (mainly the non analytical ones) should work on actually being good at talking about the game and not saying "both players want to win this game", "he does not want to lose this game!" every minute of a game ;p Talk about the actual game or get some new interesting filler content for your casts. As it is now you can copy the cast of a game and replace the names, and you'd save money of having casters for every match.
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On June 08 2013 07:26 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 04:13 CatsPajamas wrote:
Hey everyone! This is actually really great feedback for us. I'd like to talk a little about the process here and let you know how we're incorporating the feedback:
1.) WCS Today started as a quick recap show, meant to show you everything you missed from the day before and get you ready for the upcoming matches. However, since the launch of our new WCS Portal, that focus mostly changes now as you can go to a site and catch up on everything you've missed.
2.) Going forward, we're going to evaluate all the comments and criticism here to implement into future episodes. We definitely feel the focus should steer more towards telling the story of the players, and we'll work to improve.
I've passed on the criticism to the entire core team here and we're reviewing to see how we can improve.
Thanks!
Kevin Great to see you casting again! I have to agree with everyone else here- patterning the WCS Today off of SportsCenter (which follows the "highlights until the end, then final score" formula for every single game) would totally work for SC2. That formula is pretty interesting and fun, as with games you missed (but don't plan to watch), you get a sort of 30-second synopsis that can be significantly more rewarding than just reading the scoreline. Showing the highlights and turning points of each game also facilitates "watercooler conversation", which has been a driving force in the popularity of mainstream sports for 50 years. With SC2 that isn't quite happening yet (though I do have some friends to talk pro SC2 with), but it would facilitate "TL cooler discussion" better.
It's really difficult to give good recaps of SC2 games though. For many sports they can just show a mix of the best or most tense points, but in SC2 it's hard to pick out single instances in a game that are impressive or interesting to watch because it often seems meaningless when divorced from the context of the game. Highlight videos are especially handicapped for this reason, recaps/battle reports of games are still possible but run the risk of becoming either generic and uninformative or cynical and not suited for a mainstream audience (imagine idra doing the recaps).
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Solid post. Hopefully your criticisms are already being considered by casters and content producers alike when trying to improve their respective products.
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I'm pretty tired of stuff being so overhyped. I don't need to hear that X player is "THE BEST IN THE WORLD!!!" every single minute of a cast.
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On June 08 2013 09:00 SnipedSoul wrote:
I'm pretty tired of stuff being so overhyped. I don't need to hear that X player is "THE BEST IN THE WORLD!!!" every single minute of a cast.
Yes, I agree. People nowadays throw terms like "god" around so loosely, it's really trivializing the word.
OP makes a great point, we really need better English language casters. We hold our players to such a high standard, why don't we do the same for casters?
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EPT
