|
On May 30 2013 00:09 sitromit wrote:
This is so funny. In ro8 we had Parting vs Soulkey which was a very close series, 3-2. If Parting won the last game, we would have had 2 Toss in ro4, and a guaranteed Toss in finals.
Didn't happen we got Soulkey vs sOs, once again extremely close series, 4-3. Everyone said during the last game, that had sOs actually target fired the few Corrupters that killed his Colossi, or sniped Soulkey's 3rd Hatchery which had very few HP left, he would have probably won that game. Once again, we'd be looking at a PvT GSL finals and no one would be able to complain that Protoss is weak.
If you look at win rates in Korea, Protoss is doing fine and not just in Proleague where they're dominating but in the GSL and GSTL as well.
So how many Protoss will we see at the WCS season one, world finals? Will it be more than 1 out of 18? What about the other regions where they are doing poorly, like EU? Do those not count?
|
IMO, the liquipedia entry for warp prisms perfectly describe why this is an excellent change:
"Whilst a speed upgrade does exist, it is usually a low priority upgrade compared to Blink or Extended Thermal Lances. As such, it is difficult to incorporate Warp Prisms into a stable strategy unless you are ahead in the game and can afford to skip a Colossus or see an opportunity to do a drop."
Not to mention protoss is just too "slow" right now, and extremely lacking in harrass if you don't go stargate. It'll be great to see some quick warp prism early/mid game harassing that will reward great players with fantastic micro and multi-tasking. Please do it blizz, don't listen to people that say this is going to cause more all-ins, because that just makes no sense at all lol
|
On May 29 2013 23:36 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 23:05 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2013 22:53 TheDwf wrote:On May 29 2013 22:42 Big J wrote:On May 29 2013 22:37 TheDwf wrote:On May 29 2013 22:11 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2013 22:01 00higgo wrote:On May 29 2013 21:57 Beatmania wrote:
This change is ridiculous. Protoss really do not need this and it will not change anything other than giving Terran more ways to lose or be behind in the first 13 minutes. Terran already have to prepare for so much with lack of good scouting and are severely punished if they make the wrong calls. There is no reason Protoss can't use warp prism as it is in the same capacity and the ability to use it even earlier in a matchup that revolves around Terran having to scout perfectly seems insane.
Also Protoss have good harass/pressure options already. MSC stalker pushes, Blink builds, Oracles, Phoenix, DTs, Proxy plays. And then a vast array of all ins. Terran all ins consist of reaper, BitbyBitPrimes, 111, and 3 rax stim. All of which are ridiculously easy for protoss to scout and defend. I just really hope this change doesn't go through. I must be mis understanding, Terran has a lack of good scouting options? The main problem is that terrans are addicted to mules and can't kick the habit. Any time they see a potential all in, they think: "Damn, I need more money for more units. MORE MULES!!!!". They can't cut back, because they need those mules so bad. The main problem is ignorant Protoss like you thinking they're smarter than Terrans (who actually play their race instead of theorycrafting 24/7 on forums about how Terrans are supposedly "dumb" or "greedy"). Terrans don't or rarely scan to scout in early game because scans are a total gamble. They might see everything, they might see something, they might see nothing. Such a pity that IPL didn't upload the VODs of the IPTL grandfinals; I would link a screenshot of Bang's scan against MC on Atlas each time the inevitable uninformed "lol scans" nonsense (which, surprise surprise, is always brought up by non-Terrans) comes back in those discussions. Tech can be proxied anywhere or simply in a corner of the base (but which one?). Which is why Terrans didn't wait random armchair coaches to find solutions and started playing Reapers to see a bit more in the dark out there. And yes, Terrans badly need MULEs because, you know, they don't have any way to hasten their worker production + have some of them busy building on top of having an expensive infrastructure; try to idle 5 of your probes for 90 seconds and tell me how your build order goes. not true. I can name 2 Terrans that scan much more than the others. That nearly always scan at certain early timings (like against roach/bane) to see an allin coming. Their names are Flash and Innovation. Why exactly do you say "not true" and talk about TvZ when I was discussing TvP early game scans? Plus observers/VODs don't always show scans so I doubt you have a way to know. The simple fact of the matter is that if you think a protoss setting up an all-in, a scan is a good option. There is always a point in the game where the information is more valuable than the 300 mineral mule. If you can't get the info through other means, the scan is unstoppable and a viable option. Its on the only thing you should be doing if your "all-in sense" in tingling, but is is one of them. Yes, scans are unstoppable—so? Just look at the following pro example—Taeja vs Sage, Star Station, ATC Liquid vs ROOT. Taeja is a good guy and actually listens to your advice. His reward? LinkNothing. He saw nothing, because as you can see on the minimap, everything was proxied. Taeja blindly prepared for a frontal Oracle bust and happened to be right (probably because he knew Sage's habits); it was indeed a 4g Oracles coming. But had it been a Blink Stalker attack, he would have been dead since his 3 bunks at the front would have been useless (+ he would have been 270 minerals behind due to the failed scan). + Show Spoiler +
Another example in Bang vs MC, Atlas, IPTL MVP vs LG-IM. Bang scouted 3 pylons + dual gas with his SCV, presumably saw no expand at some point and scanned MC's base at 6'30. What did he see? 3 gates. I really wish I had a screenshot of this scan because it was the unluckiest thing ever: literally one inch at the left of the radius was the robo, and one inch at the right was the council searching blink. Bang built a second bunker but realized too late it was blink stalkers and was swiftly crushed.
Moral of the story: as I said earlier, early scans are a complete coinflip. The tradeoff is not "information vs being 270 minerals behind," it's "undefined odds of no/partial/complete information vs being 270 minerals behind" i. e. mostly a lottery. In both aforementioned cases, had the Terran players called a third MULE instead of a scan, they would have been in a better position since in both cases they were playing blindly anyway, but the MULE at least gives you 270 minerals over 90 sec (which matters a lot when defending all-ins since you need extra bunks, lose mining time when preparing your SCVs near the bunkers, etc.). If scans were a reliable way to get the necessary intel, Reaper reactor expands would not have replaced the dual Marine reactor expand.
To see nothing is to see something, if the toss has nothing at the 6:30 second mark indicates that he is proxying (or a plastic league player), what buildings is uncertain but you should know something funky is coming.
|
On May 29 2013 23:20 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 23:03 Suikakuju wrote:
Corruper still sucks since WoL = care about other race...Thanks David Kim It's fucking blizzard, major unit reworks = expansion. Wait for the fuck void (which they already confirmed will see corrupter changes), blizzard will never ever rework a unit without an expansion. Like the change, hope it goes through as it should make the game more entertaining and hopefully encourage protoss to harrass more. Also since they are busy changing drops, please make overlord drop upgrade cheaper, 200 gas is just ridiculous. @MoonCricket: Pls tell me of one single situation where I can scout something with a prism that a hallu phoenix or an observer could not. Protoss scouting is already really good and I don't think anyone will be like "sick faster prism now I can finally scout xyz".
unfortunately you are right with unit rework... I didn´t read anything about corrupter change in Void, but hey its blizzard again...
And when this addon is released its time to talk about fucking balance.
But for time being I´ll enjoy having an instant warpprism in my base with instant reinforcement, while me waiting for overlord drop upgrade to finish....
makes perfect sense!
|
On May 29 2013 23:28 Rockafella wrote:
Warp prism collosus harass ERRY GOD DAMN TIME
We NEVER see it as is, what makes you think it will go from 0 usage to 100%?
And wouldn't it be a GOOD thing if this happened? Everyone complains that the toss deathball is too strong, well this means that one of those Colossi is not with it. Hooray!!!
Everyone complains that toss doesn't need more damaging units to add to the deathball, well the warp prism doesn't even have an attack. You'd think it would be the perfect compromise unit to buff. Hooray!!!
Everyone complains that toss does nothing but a-move, well this allows them to do some micro intensive and very expensive harass to make games more dynamic. Hooray!!!
I don't understand how so many people can have double standards. "Toss is a stupid and boring and easy race to play, but we don't want Blizzard to add more skill to it, and we don't want Blizzard to add more options that allow branching out from the deathball."
Even if this unbalances the game, if it makes it more dynamic that's all that matters. Balance can be readjusted in so many ways.
|
The issue is, toss can ONLY deathball, their units are not useful enough to harass with, and people complain about it. This can only be a good change, but it's still not fixing some core issues.
|
I'd definitely like to see a warp prism speed buff if only to make micro for drops easier. If you look at the new terran drop micro, medivacs look like they are practically strafing to pick up units on a load command. That's one of the big things that have made me not interested in protoss drops, in how long it takes to pick up expensive units after the command has been issued. Maybe instead of increasing warp prism speed, increase pickup radius.
Some change to allow protoss early harass is necessary since mothership core has to stay home to defend.
|
On May 30 2013 00:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 00:09 sitromit wrote:
This is so funny. In ro8 we had Parting vs Soulkey which was a very close series, 3-2. If Parting won the last game, we would have had 2 Toss in ro4, and a guaranteed Toss in finals.
Didn't happen we got Soulkey vs sOs, once again extremely close series, 4-3. Everyone said during the last game, that had sOs actually target fired the few Corrupters that killed his Colossi, or sniped Soulkey's 3rd Hatchery which had very few HP left, he would have probably won that game. Once again, we'd be looking at a PvT GSL finals and no one would be able to complain that Protoss is weak.
If you look at win rates in Korea, Protoss is doing fine and not just in Proleague where they're dominating but in the GSL and GSTL as well.
So how many Protoss will we see at the WCS season one, world finals? Will it be more than 1 out of 18? What about the other regions where they are doing poorly, like EU? Do those not count?
Other regions? Protoss is doing fine in America.
If they're doing fine in 2 out of 3 regions, that means Toss needs a buff? Here are the overall stats for EU:
Premiere: PvT 44%, PvZ 49%, TvZ 58%
Challenger: PvT 52%, PvZ 57%, TvZ 56%
That doesn't look like Protoss needs a buff to me.
|
On May 30 2013 00:19 Fig wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 23:28 Rockafella wrote:
Warp prism collosus harass ERRY GOD DAMN TIME We NEVER see it as is, what makes you think it will go from 0 usage to 100%? And wouldn't it be a GOOD thing if this happened? Everyone complains that the toss deathball is too strong, well this means that one of those Colossi is not with it. Hooray!!! Everyone complains that toss doesn't need more damaging units to add to the deathball, well the warp prism doesn't even have an attack. You'd think it would be the perfect compromise unit to buff. Hooray!!! Everyone complains that toss does nothing but a-move, well this allows them to do some micro intensive and very expensive harass to make games more dynamic. Hooray!!! I don't understand how so many people can have double standards. "Toss is a stupid and boring and easy race to play, but we don't want Blizzard to add more skill to it, and we don't want Blizzard to add more options that allow branching out from the deathball." Even if this unbalances the game, if it makes it more dynamic that's all that matters. Balance can be readjusted in so many ways.
I assume he was joking with the warp prism colossus harass.....:D
All this does is open up a potential source of earlier aggression. And same as every type of aggression, if you commit to it, you will obviously not have as large an army as if you didn't commit to early aggression. You'd think people would be happy to get some paths protoss can take besides turtle up to 200 or go for a timing attack/all-in
|
On May 29 2013 23:36 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 23:05 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2013 22:53 TheDwf wrote:On May 29 2013 22:42 Big J wrote:On May 29 2013 22:37 TheDwf wrote:On May 29 2013 22:11 Plansix wrote:On May 29 2013 22:01 00higgo wrote:On May 29 2013 21:57 Beatmania wrote:
This change is ridiculous. Protoss really do not need this and it will not change anything other than giving Terran more ways to lose or be behind in the first 13 minutes. Terran already have to prepare for so much with lack of good scouting and are severely punished if they make the wrong calls. There is no reason Protoss can't use warp prism as it is in the same capacity and the ability to use it even earlier in a matchup that revolves around Terran having to scout perfectly seems insane.
Also Protoss have good harass/pressure options already. MSC stalker pushes, Blink builds, Oracles, Phoenix, DTs, Proxy plays. And then a vast array of all ins. Terran all ins consist of reaper, BitbyBitPrimes, 111, and 3 rax stim. All of which are ridiculously easy for protoss to scout and defend. I just really hope this change doesn't go through. I must be mis understanding, Terran has a lack of good scouting options? The main problem is that terrans are addicted to mules and can't kick the habit. Any time they see a potential all in, they think: "Damn, I need more money for more units. MORE MULES!!!!". They can't cut back, because they need those mules so bad. The main problem is ignorant Protoss like you thinking they're smarter than Terrans (who actually play their race instead of theorycrafting 24/7 on forums about how Terrans are supposedly "dumb" or "greedy"). Terrans don't or rarely scan to scout in early game because scans are a total gamble. They might see everything, they might see something, they might see nothing. Such a pity that IPL didn't upload the VODs of the IPTL grandfinals; I would link a screenshot of Bang's scan against MC on Atlas each time the inevitable uninformed "lol scans" nonsense (which, surprise surprise, is always brought up by non-Terrans) comes back in those discussions. Tech can be proxied anywhere or simply in a corner of the base (but which one?). Which is why Terrans didn't wait random armchair coaches to find solutions and started playing Reapers to see a bit more in the dark out there. And yes, Terrans badly need MULEs because, you know, they don't have any way to hasten their worker production + have some of them busy building on top of having an expensive infrastructure; try to idle 5 of your probes for 90 seconds and tell me how your build order goes. not true. I can name 2 Terrans that scan much more than the others. That nearly always scan at certain early timings (like against roach/bane) to see an allin coming. Their names are Flash and Innovation. Why exactly do you say "not true" and talk about TvZ when I was discussing TvP early game scans? Plus observers/VODs don't always show scans so I doubt you have a way to know. The simple fact of the matter is that if you think a protoss setting up an all-in, a scan is a good option. There is always a point in the game where the information is more valuable than the 300 mineral mule. If you can't get the info through other means, the scan is unstoppable and a viable option. Its on the only thing you should be doing if your "all-in sense" in tingling, but is is one of them. Yes, scans are unstoppable—so? Just look at the following pro example—Taeja vs Sage, Star Station, ATC Liquid vs ROOT. Taeja is a good guy and actually listens to your advice. His reward? LinkNothing. He saw nothing, because as you can see on the minimap, everything was proxied. Taeja blindly prepared for a frontal Oracle bust and happened to be right (probably because he knew Sage's habits); it was indeed a 4g Oracles coming. But had it been a Blink Stalker attack, he would have been dead since his 3 bunks at the front would have been useless (+ he would have been 270 minerals behind due to the failed scan). Another example in Bang vs MC, Atlas, IPTL MVP vs LG-IM. Bang scouted 3 pylons + dual gas with his SCV, presumably saw no expand at some point and scanned MC's base at 6'30. What did he see? 3 gates. I really wish I had a screenshot of this scan because it was the unluckiest thing ever: literally one inch at the left of the radius was the robo, and one inch at the right was the council searching blink. Bang built a second bunker but realized too late it was blink stalkers and was swiftly crushed. Moral of the story: as I said earlier, early scans are a complete coinflip. The tradeoff is not "information vs being 270 minerals behind," it's "undefined odds of no/partial/complete information vs being 270 minerals behind" i. e. mostly a lottery. In both aforementioned cases, had the Terran players called a third MULE instead of a scan, they would have been in a better position since in both cases they were playing blindly anyway, but the MULE at least gives you 270 minerals over 90 sec (which matters a lot when defending all-ins since you need extra bunks, lose mining time when preparing your SCVs near the bunkers, etc.). If scans were a reliable way to get the necessary intel, Reaper reactor expands would not have replaced the dual Marine reactor expand.
Maybe if you dont want to scan use a reaper...or a medivac :D
|
seems question is not so much just if toss need a buff or not, but more that p matchups are in danger of stagnating and being boring to watch/play since toss most of the time needs to turtle into death ball.
Hopefully speedprisms might open up for more pressure early/mid game, generating a more entertaining back-and-forth game.
As a protoss i feel very gimmicky when I have to hide a pylon somewhere to presurre a 3 hatch zerg... harrasing with prisms is a lot more fun, and actually something I liked to abuse in wol vs bl/infestors pvz late game. So worth trying imo.
|
On May 30 2013 00:26 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 00:14 Plansix wrote:On May 30 2013 00:09 sitromit wrote:
This is so funny. In ro8 we had Parting vs Soulkey which was a very close series, 3-2. If Parting won the last game, we would have had 2 Toss in ro4, and a guaranteed Toss in finals.
Didn't happen we got Soulkey vs sOs, once again extremely close series, 4-3. Everyone said during the last game, that had sOs actually target fired the few Corrupters that killed his Colossi, or sniped Soulkey's 3rd Hatchery which had very few HP left, he would have probably won that game. Once again, we'd be looking at a PvT GSL finals and no one would be able to complain that Protoss is weak.
If you look at win rates in Korea, Protoss is doing fine and not just in Proleague where they're dominating but in the GSL and GSTL as well.
So how many Protoss will we see at the WCS season one, world finals? Will it be more than 1 out of 18? What about the other regions where they are doing poorly, like EU? Do those not count? Other regions? Protoss is doing fine in America. If they're doing fine in 2 out of 3 regions, that means Toss needs a buff? Here are the overall stats for EU: Premiere: PvT 44%, PvZ 49%, TvZ 58% Challenger: PvT 52%, PvZ 57%, TvZ 56% That doesn't look like Protoss needs a buff to me.
Well Blizzard disagrees with you and thinks that at more than 1 protoss should make it to the WCS World Finals a season. They see different that you do and have decided that protoss could use a minor boost and decided to test something out. We could pull up stats all day, but I know that isn't the only thing they rely on when they decide to make a change.
|
On May 29 2013 23:50 Plansix wrote:
And you forget that protoss players play against other protoss. We all have lost to DTs or 3 oracles flying into our mineral line, only to review the replay and see our opponent more than a single stalker and just prayed they didn't get attacked. All-ins happens to everyone.
I don't care about the PvP lottery since it's a mirror match-up. Some things in mirror match-ups can be infuriating but it matters less since there is no asymmetry.
On May 29 2013 23:52 DinoMight wrote:
Also, LOL scouting unit... Terran has a 1500 hp observer that costs 150 minerals. It's called a Barracks. And it moves faster than an overlord. I'm not trolling, lol. I've been scouted by Master level Terrans with spare Barracks before. With only Stalkers as AA, it's very effective.
First, Barracks have 1000 hps, not 1500. Second, they're not invisible. Third, be rather happy that your lowmasters opponents don't know that getting an extra rax specifically (≠ salvaging a proxy rax) for scouting is awful and kills their build order (hence why no one does it at pro level).
On May 30 2013 00:13 Big J wrote:
Don't even start about scan scouting with Terrans. You will always hear how it is not perfect. From the same people who will tell you "just sac an overlord" or "with free hallucinations and hidden observers, protoss should never get caught by anything".
Might have something to do with the fact that flying over a Terran base with a air unit guarantees much more information than an early scan in TvP. When Terran uses a 1-1-1 build order, he can usually get a very good scout on what Protoss is doing at the moment, but not all build orders can have an early Medivac, while Protoss can always have an early air unit (MSC with its 14 sight range, hallucinated Phoenixes, Observers or Oracles). But naturally, the big difference comes to Protoss having zero one-base all-in to worry about (11/11 can be scouted by a Probe scout).
And if a Zerg is really willing to scout his Terran opponent with an Overlord, he will, because there is a 100/100 speed upgrade which will allow him to see everything (e. g. Bomber vs RorO, Whirlwind, Code S). Similarly, denying a hallucinated Phoenix is virtually impossible.
|
On May 30 2013 00:26 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 00:14 Plansix wrote:On May 30 2013 00:09 sitromit wrote:
This is so funny. In ro8 we had Parting vs Soulkey which was a very close series, 3-2. If Parting won the last game, we would have had 2 Toss in ro4, and a guaranteed Toss in finals.
Didn't happen we got Soulkey vs sOs, once again extremely close series, 4-3. Everyone said during the last game, that had sOs actually target fired the few Corrupters that killed his Colossi, or sniped Soulkey's 3rd Hatchery which had very few HP left, he would have probably won that game. Once again, we'd be looking at a PvT GSL finals and no one would be able to complain that Protoss is weak.
If you look at win rates in Korea, Protoss is doing fine and not just in Proleague where they're dominating but in the GSL and GSTL as well.
So how many Protoss will we see at the WCS season one, world finals? Will it be more than 1 out of 18? What about the other regions where they are doing poorly, like EU? Do those not count? Other regions? Protoss is doing fine in America. If they're doing fine in 2 out of 3 regions, that means Toss needs a buff? Here are the overall stats for EU: Premiere: PvT 44%, PvZ 49%, TvZ 58% Challenger: PvT 52%, PvZ 57%, TvZ 56% That doesn't look like Protoss needs a buff to me.
LOL the stats you posted are actually just flat wrong! Here's the REAL stats for WCS EU as presented by liquipedia.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/Statistics
Premiere: PvT 32.4%, PvZ 40.0%
Challenger: PvT 30.0%, PvZ 41.4%
Not sure where you got your information from.
|
holy crap I hate these threads.. i bet 70% of the people here wont even actually test this and instead just sit here and bitch about it.
|
On May 30 2013 00:43 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 00:26 sitromit wrote:On May 30 2013 00:14 Plansix wrote:On May 30 2013 00:09 sitromit wrote:
This is so funny. In ro8 we had Parting vs Soulkey which was a very close series, 3-2. If Parting won the last game, we would have had 2 Toss in ro4, and a guaranteed Toss in finals.
Didn't happen we got Soulkey vs sOs, once again extremely close series, 4-3. Everyone said during the last game, that had sOs actually target fired the few Corrupters that killed his Colossi, or sniped Soulkey's 3rd Hatchery which had very few HP left, he would have probably won that game. Once again, we'd be looking at a PvT GSL finals and no one would be able to complain that Protoss is weak.
If you look at win rates in Korea, Protoss is doing fine and not just in Proleague where they're dominating but in the GSL and GSTL as well.
So how many Protoss will we see at the WCS season one, world finals? Will it be more than 1 out of 18? What about the other regions where they are doing poorly, like EU? Do those not count? Other regions? Protoss is doing fine in America. If they're doing fine in 2 out of 3 regions, that means Toss needs a buff? Here are the overall stats for EU: Premiere: PvT 44%, PvZ 49%, TvZ 58% Challenger: PvT 52%, PvZ 57%, TvZ 56% That doesn't look like Protoss needs a buff to me. LOL the stats you posted are actually just flat wrong! Here's the REAL stats for WCS EU as presented by liquipedia. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/StatisticsPremiere: PvT 32.4%, PvZ 40.0% Challenger: PvT 30.0%, PvZ 41.4% Not sure where you got your information from.
I got them from Aligulac.
http://aligulac.com/results/events/12946-WCS-2013-Season-1-Europe/
|
On May 30 2013 00:43 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 00:26 sitromit wrote:On May 30 2013 00:14 Plansix wrote:On May 30 2013 00:09 sitromit wrote:
This is so funny. In ro8 we had Parting vs Soulkey which was a very close series, 3-2. If Parting won the last game, we would have had 2 Toss in ro4, and a guaranteed Toss in finals.
Didn't happen we got Soulkey vs sOs, once again extremely close series, 4-3. Everyone said during the last game, that had sOs actually target fired the few Corrupters that killed his Colossi, or sniped Soulkey's 3rd Hatchery which had very few HP left, he would have probably won that game. Once again, we'd be looking at a PvT GSL finals and no one would be able to complain that Protoss is weak.
If you look at win rates in Korea, Protoss is doing fine and not just in Proleague where they're dominating but in the GSL and GSTL as well.
So how many Protoss will we see at the WCS season one, world finals? Will it be more than 1 out of 18? What about the other regions where they are doing poorly, like EU? Do those not count? Other regions? Protoss is doing fine in America. If they're doing fine in 2 out of 3 regions, that means Toss needs a buff? Here are the overall stats for EU: Premiere: PvT 44%, PvZ 49%, TvZ 58% Challenger: PvT 52%, PvZ 57%, TvZ 56% That doesn't look like Protoss needs a buff to me. LOL the stats you posted are actually just flat wrong! Here's the REAL stats for WCS EU as presented by liquipedia. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/StatisticsPremiere: PvT 32.4%, PvZ 40.0% Challenger: PvT 30.0%, PvZ 41.4% Not sure where you got your information from.
Oh shit, I didn't even bother to check to see if his stats were right and assumed he was being honest. But then again, I don't know why I would assume that. A 30% win rate is pretty bad, regardless.
|
Protoss are underperforming because Protoss players are worse than Zergs and Terrans. Sorry but it's true.
|
On May 30 2013 00:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 00:09 sitromit wrote:
This is so funny. In ro8 we had Parting vs Soulkey which was a very close series, 3-2. If Parting won the last game, we would have had 2 Toss in ro4, and a guaranteed Toss in finals.
Didn't happen we got Soulkey vs sOs, once again extremely close series, 4-3. Everyone said during the last game, that had sOs actually target fired the few Corrupters that killed his Colossi, or sniped Soulkey's 3rd Hatchery which had very few HP left, he would have probably won that game. Once again, we'd be looking at a PvT GSL finals and no one would be able to complain that Protoss is weak.
If you look at win rates in Korea, Protoss is doing fine and not just in Proleague where they're dominating but in the GSL and GSTL as well.
So how many Protoss will we see at the WCS season one, world finals? Will it be more than 1 out of 18? What about the other regions where they are doing poorly, like EU? Do those not count?
It has been Terran that for a long time has been struggling the most outside of Korea (in before someone cherry picks some bullcrap statistics to argue with that, but we all know the reality). In gsl though Protoss has pretty much been the weakest race overall. Question is do Blizzard want to balance around the most consistent play or around people who are still making obvious mistakes in games? Buffs like these will make most player's ladder experience more frustrating, but if its a sacrifice for a better standard of pro games I think many will except it.
Look at these forums, a lot of rage about Protoss OP from their ladder experience and I kind of understand them, on ladder Protoss pwn's. Look at gsl though and the race has struggled in pretty much every season and these are the players with the most skill and most consistency and statistics genuinely mean something in that tournament.
|
Good job complaining about the TvP winrate when Mvp represents a third of the wins there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
