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On May 14 2013 09:46 hitpoint wrote:
Nothing wrong with muta vs muta imo. It's better than anything we've had in the past. Don't like the change.
Muta vs muta is very luck-based..especially
since its hard to count the number of clumped up mutas and you cant really /predict muta splash as easily as ucan with tank splash
ling vs ling every game would also make it luck-based
ZvZ needs to stay away from lings or mutas imo.
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tooootally going to cheese/troll people by making and encampment of swarmhosts/spores/queens outside their base now!!
Thanks David Kim
but seriously now i can do it against all 3 races its such a fun strat
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viper+spore push is new meta.
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Canada16217 Posts
On May 14 2013 11:39 GhostOwl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 09:46 hitpoint wrote:
Nothing wrong with muta vs muta imo. It's better than anything we've had in the past. Don't like the change. Muta vs muta is very luck-based..especially since its hard to count the number of clumped up mutas and you cant really /predict muta splash as easily as ucan with tank splash ling vs ling every game would also make it luck-based ZvZ needs to stay away from lings or mutas imo.
I wouldn't call it luck based more so it's very very unforgiving.
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Absolutely absurd and unimaginative change. Can you imagine in Broodwar if Blizzard felt terran mech was too strong against protoss, they decided to make zealots do additional damage to siege tanks? The whole idea of "Let's have this one unit do more damage to one specific unit that we think is OP in this one matchup" reeks of bad design. Buffing static D is also likely to make muta v muta matches simply more defensively oriented (read: boring). Muta -> infestor tech switches are also something that Blizz should be wary of, because so much relies on luck (can you tell when your opponent is tech switching and take advantage, or not realize and lose the game because of 1 fungal? A lot of it comes down to luck and guesswork) but they seem to be encouraging it.
Buff hydra speed on creep instead IMO. Makes roach/hydra viable against terran, doesn't affect protoss much, helps ZvZ, isn't a gimmicky change.
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make coruptors or hydras do bonus to bio air.
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Anything that makes the muta cloud even a little less viable is a good change.
ZvZ is as stale now as PvP was at the start and mid of WoL
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Why are people complaining already? Give it a few weeks before you go "HERP DERP THIS AINT GONNA WORK".
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Once again, this is yet another patch that tries to balance the game by making changes around edge cases. This is not good design and demonstrates a lack of global cohesiveness to the system.
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On May 14 2013 12:18 wangstra wrote:
Once again, this is yet another patch that tries to balance the game by making changes around edge cases. This is not good design and demonstrates a lack of global cohesiveness to the system.
What, instead of simply patch edge cases (balance bugs if you will), they should try to alter the core system and risk breaking other parts? No thanks, not when round of 8 GSL Code S is on our doorstep.
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And just wait, if this doesn't solve the problem, lets double the bonus of spores vs biological yet again!. The niche change to the sporecrawler is just ridiculous, and doesn't solve the core problem of why ZvZ is always muta vs muta. Mutalisks need a regen nerf, plain and simple.
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On May 14 2013 11:43 maniac1122 wrote:
tooootally going to cheese/troll people by making and encampment of swarmhosts/spores/queens outside their base now!!
Thanks David Kim
but seriously now i can do it against all 3 races its such a fun strat
u can do it in zvp zvt because the opponents are too bad, aren't they? how this balance patch could make this strat work against terran and toss ? lol
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On May 14 2013 12:29 mishimaBeef wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2013 12:18 wangstra wrote:
Once again, this is yet another patch that tries to balance the game by making changes around edge cases. This is not good design and demonstrates a lack of global cohesiveness to the system. What, instead of simply patch edge cases (balance bugs if you will), they should try to alter the core system and risk breaking other parts? No thanks, not when round of 8 GSL Code S is on our doorstep.
By edge case, I don't mean "balance bugs". I mean making minor alterations to the system that don''t address the main processes that create the imbalances in the first place. These processes often end up surfacing a new edge case down the line that in the future that will most likely again be "fixed" in the same manner.
That's a sign of @#$! poor design.
Similar examples to name a couple include infested terrans and hellbats.
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so they think TvP is still balanced? and that the new terran late game is ok?
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On May 14 2013 11:53 glad. wrote:
Absolutely absurd and unimaginative change. Can you imagine in Broodwar if Blizzard felt terran mech was too strong against protoss, they decided to make zealots do additional damage to siege tanks? The whole idea of "Let's have this one unit do more damage to one specific unit that we think is OP in this one matchup" reeks of bad design. Buffing static D is also likely to make muta v muta matches simply more defensively oriented (read: boring). Muta -> infestor tech switches are also something that Blizz should be wary of, because so much relies on luck (can you tell when your opponent is tech switching and take advantage, or not realize and lose the game because of 1 fungal? A lot of it comes down to luck and guesswork) but they seem to be encouraging it.
Buff hydra speed on creep instead IMO. Makes roach/hydra viable against terran, doesn't affect protoss much, helps ZvZ, isn't a gimmicky change.
Hmm it's not really the same as your analogy because they are at least buffing spore damage to a certain type (bio) but perhaps they could have been more imaginative, something like an added damage over time or small area of effect.
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I generally dislike changes that isolate a particular matchup [since the whole idea of starcraft is same units and abilities across all matchups], but it seems the simplest fix to the muta wars in zvz.
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On May 14 2013 11:43 maniac1122 wrote:
tooootally going to cheese/troll people by making and encampment of swarmhosts/spores/queens outside their base now!!
Thanks David Kim
but seriously now i can do it against all 3 races its such a fun strat
You might enjoy this game. http://drop.sc/334440. This was me trying this strategy for the first time a few weeks ago.
I am personally not a fan of this change because it is awkward and clumsy. I also think it won't stop muta ling which is too good at denying thirds before spores can be set up on some maps at least.
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Hey? Why don't we give hatcheries a nexus core? Haha.
In all seriousness though, for those who believe an increase in hydralisk damage against air bio is a better decision, let me tell you why you're wrong. Firstly, only bronzes go hydralisks against mutas. Mutalisks dont engage fights with hydralisks simply because they die. People use mutalisks against hydralisks primarily to keep them from moving out. They never engage unless there is only a few lone hydralisk. Also, hydralisks are only good against mutalisks when there are enough of them. Unfortunately, when someone masses hydras, the opponent just has to make a few banes and boom, all hydras are dead. Haha.
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I think +air damage on hydras would be nice. Would even help ZvP if skytoss is as big of an issue as it was a few months ago (havent played SC in a while so im rusty on the meta).
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On May 14 2013 09:43 Kowai01 wrote:
I would like to see an overall damage buff to spore to a flat 45 damage vs all since Zerg has no viable Anti-Air late game vs Terran or Toss... Hydras die to easy and Curropters just arent stronk enuf to deal with carriers/Tempest or Ravens. or maybe a Range increase instead of a damage increase. And Hellbats... But this is still "New" Game so i think the slow approach is good for now... Next month they need to actually start looking at Terran's Hellbats, SpeedVac and Widowmine... I hope. And maybe a slight decrease in the DPS of Locus of the SH.
Please think before u post. 45 dmg at the rate of speed the spore is attacking could literally wipe out a medvac even with speed boost. Absolutely ridiculous.
52 dps against 150 health medivac.
Right.... cuz thats fair.
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EPT
