i understand the need for a nerf to spores but i think that there could be a better solution. After all, the problem is the map control + the DPS. Getting two bases when you are going ground is near impossible, spore change won't help that much im afraid.

Shady Sands

United States4021 Posts

May 14 2013 01:32 GMT

#44

On May 14 2013 10:26 Redrot wrote:
As a zergie, I think this is okay, but I feel there are better options, such as deprojectilizing fungal.

Good lord no.

Existor

Russian Federation4295 Posts

May 14 2013 01:33 GMT

#45

On May 14 2013 09:44 urashimakt wrote:
I foresee a lot of Brood Lord + Sporecrawler play in ZvZ's future.

Abduct Broods off from spores and closer to corruptors?

avilo

United States4100 Posts

May 14 2013 01:38 GMT

#46

On May 14 2013 10:01 Zenbrez wrote:
I've gotta say - this hasn't changed my behaviour in the matchup so far. It's not like I used to fight near spores anyway, so now I still don't.

The idea isn't that it drastically changes the match-up in one direction or another. The idea is that by having a really strong spore vs mutalisk it opens up the possibility of infestor play since you will have better defense vs mutas.

This tiny change in theory means that if both players are playing muta vs muta, it will become possible for infestors, which in turn allows for hydra/roach/ling ground play, which makes the match-up inch towards not being only muta vs muta.

They wanted to avoid massive changes to any other core units that would adversely affect the other match-ups, such as messing with hydras or infestors.

It's a good small step towards diversifyng ZvZ more.

Rance

Canada18 Posts

May 14 2013 01:44 GMT

#47

might as well bring back scourges from bw

Emzeeshady

Canada4203 Posts

May 14 2013 01:52 GMT

#48

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iyasq8

113 Posts

May 14 2013 01:53 GMT

#49

The worst change ever to zvz..... thats an overkill dk, nobody will go mutas while or infestors since they dont have bonus against armored... itll be roach hydra vs roach hydra=amove vs amove. fixing the physics for mutas was the only way, but well, that requires some work which blizzard is obviously not a fan of.

kamicom

United States180 Posts

May 14 2013 01:54 GMT

#50

What on earth is this... did I miss april fools day or something? How is this even remotely an urgent balance issue?

Didn't David Kim say it was unanimously and blatantly agreed upon by the entire balance team that WM is too strong? Also, Afterburners are probably the most agreed thing in hots that needs to be nerfed. TvT looks so stupid when all they do is camp their mineral lines and send out hellbat/rine/wm drops on each others' mineral lines in hopes of wiping out half the scvs.

Yo blizzard, I'd rather have overlords have a land-mode like vikings where overlords turn into giant busses that tank damage like a moving bunker... THAT's preferable over this spore thing...

PhOeniX[MinD]

361 Posts

May 14 2013 01:55 GMT

#51

On May 14 2013 10:24 mishimaBeef wrote:
If a newb looked at reaver drops in sc1 they'd probably think it was OP also.

if they saw Jian Fei using reavers maybe lol!

Blargh

United States2103 Posts

May 14 2013 01:56 GMT

#52

Seems like it's a bit too much damage to me, but I agree that a change to ZvZ was necessary. Why didn't they just make gradual changes in the right direction though..?

BigRedDog

461 Posts

May 14 2013 02:02 GMT

#53

I won't attack a base until I mass up mutas and can take out spore in one shot.

ZvZ feels like it is a tower defense game. I have to build spores (sometimes two around hte spire) in order to protect my base

. The increase in damage to spores will encourage me to do so even more.

Though, I think this is a good move as it might give us options to open up with infestors, hydras instead of pure mutas.

DemigodcelpH

1138 Posts

May 14 2013 02:12 GMT

#54

On May 14 2013 10:10 Garoodah wrote:
I dont see this change being a large impact honestly.

52 DPS is no joke. Why do you think that? If you mean from the perspective of the game in general then this is primarily aimed at just ZvZ as the game is balanced according to statistics at all levels of play despite the cries of some dedicated whiners who aren't used to having to micro. As far as ZvZ changing I think smartly placed spores can make Mutalisks very cost inefficient now.

Emzeeshady

Canada4203 Posts

May 14 2013 02:16 GMT

#55

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SOWxDISCORD

Brazil15 Posts

May 14 2013 02:22 GMT

#56

I enjoy a lot playing ling muta on ZvZ. Such a micro intensive army, opposite from the boring roach infestor of WoL. Hope that doesn't make muta inviable.

Still think that hellbat drop, widow mines and oracles need a fix. 1 unit alone shouldn't have the power to be a game changer as those ones do.

vRadiatioNv

United States139 Posts

May 14 2013 02:27 GMT

#57

On May 14 2013 10:52 Emzeeshady wrote:

Show nested quote +

Do you really think a small buff to Hydras would make the other matchups imbalanced. Hydra/Roach is useless vs Terran and still pretty bad vs Protoss.

You said yourself Zerg struggles vs Protoss air lategame. A small Hydra buff would certainly help solve the Muta problem and the Protoss air problem as well as make more compositions viable in ZvT.

IDK, sounds like a win/win/win to me.

Hydras are actually decent in ZvP, even a small buff to their DPS could push them over the edge of OP. Some people have suggested buffs to their AA attack only but then that might hurt Collossi too much. There is no easy answer for fixing Hydras, sadly. Perhaps a slight speed buff but idk.

As for the Spore changes, I agree with Blade that this will most likely encourage mass SH in ZvZ which could be awful. I also feel this change may not help that much vs Mutas. Probably the biggest advantage Mutas give a player is map control and considering the fact that Spores can only burrow on creep I'm not sure how effective this change will be at preventing Mutas from getting that map control and, most importantly, denying bases. If you don't want to build Mutas you will have to find a good way to get creep to your next expo (Ovies won't work since Mutas will just camp the expo and kill them) and get the Spores down. An extra Queen or two could work but I don't see what would stop the Muta player from just expanding x2 for every expo the non-Muta player takes. I am interested to see what strategies people come up with tho.

Nachtwind

Germany1130 Posts

May 14 2013 02:29 GMT

#58

While a fix in zvz muta battle would be appreciate this spore crawler change is so awkward. It feels so unprofessional.

Partha

New Zealand163 Posts

May 14 2013 02:37 GMT

#59

Ugh should had just given the +Bio dmg modifier to Hydras.

And where the fuck are the Hellbat Nerfs? A cheap mineral sink unit that does AoE, Can be healed and is tankey. They need to fire the person who designed the Corrupter, Roach and the Hellbat

Jampackedeon

United States2053 Posts

May 14 2013 02:37 GMT

#60

On May 14 2013 09:34 heyoka wrote:
I'm down for anything that increases the number of viable strategies so if it makes gameplay more diverse, then good job.

Anything at all that makes ling/bbling into muta not 100% likely to happen, it is the most annoying part of playing on the ladder right now.