• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:03
CEST 16:03
KST 23:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results1Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results MaNa leaves Team Liquid Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026 SC2 INu's Battles#16 <BO.9> Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light ASL21 Strategy, Pimpest Plays Discussions Flashes ASL S21 Ro8 Review
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Semifinals A [BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1706 users

Heart of the Swarm Balance Update – May 13, 2013 - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
375 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 19 Next All
pseudocalm
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada98 Posts
May 14 2013 06:37 GMT
#101
TY BLIZZARD this is clutch balance. Get the damn muta clouds out of zvz
I'd put my sensor tower in her minimap
Brian333
Profile Joined August 2010
657 Posts
May 14 2013 06:45 GMT
#102
I really think they should've just given spores a little splash radius instead of a buff to bio damage.

In ZvZ, offensive mutas would need to be magic boxed so the defensive mutas would have the advantage of being able to target fire.

Otherwise, it would not effect overlords / overseer scouting and contaminating (outside of the very rare scenario you have a flock of them bunched up).

In ZvT, it has no real effect because usually it's just 1 or 2 medivacs. I guess you just have to be a little careful when doom dropping.

In ZvP, it has a minimal effect on phoenixes, and in airtoss scenarios, they have plenty of options to siege down spore crawlers.

Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 14 2013 06:45 GMT
#103
On May 14 2013 14:23 xAdra wrote:
Anyone who says buffing hydras would not impact ZvP is joking. Hydras are so nonsensically strong against gateway units already.


pure hydra loses to blink stalker and chargelots in equal costs (unlike units that are actually really good vs gateway units like marines or roaches)
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
May 14 2013 06:50 GMT
#104
I am not sure how this will actually work out, but jeez, that buffed damage is huge. Absolutely deadly.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
May 14 2013 06:51 GMT
#105
On May 14 2013 15:37 pseudocalm wrote:
TY BLIZZARD this is clutch balance. Get the damn muta clouds out of zvz


You won't be saying this if zvz ever gets to the point where muta suck and going swarmhost/infestor/broodlord + mass spine being standard .
When I think of something else, something will go here
sciserr
Profile Joined June 2012
Norway16 Posts
May 14 2013 06:53 GMT
#106
On May 14 2013 11:37 Partha wrote:
Ugh should had just given the +Bio dmg modifier to Hydras.

And where the fuck are the Hellbat Nerfs? A cheap mineral sink unit that does AoE, Can be healed and is tankey. They need to fire the person who designed the Corrupter, Roach and the Hellbat


I hope, for the love of of God, that your problem with the roach has nothing what so ever to do with it being OP.
I have no time for gains!
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-14 06:55:13
May 14 2013 06:54 GMT
#107
On May 14 2013 15:51 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2013 15:37 pseudocalm wrote:
TY BLIZZARD this is clutch balance. Get the damn muta clouds out of zvz


You won't be saying this if zvz ever gets to the point where muta suck and going swarmhost/infestor/broodlord + mass spine being standard .


aren't vipers amazing against that?
like, roach/hydra/swarm host/viper... if he tries to transition, you just pull and laugh
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
May 14 2013 07:00 GMT
#108
Ok, cute patch, now move into hellbats.
Chicken gank op
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-14 07:10:30
May 14 2013 07:06 GMT
#109
On May 14 2013 15:51 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2013 15:37 pseudocalm wrote:
TY BLIZZARD this is clutch balance. Get the damn muta clouds out of zvz


You won't be saying this if zvz ever gets to the point where muta suck and going swarmhost/infestor/broodlord + mass spine being standard .

Well at least that is more then 1 unit
The problem with current zvz is that that it is all about that 1 unit and nothing can stop it.
In BW you at least had the scourge but what in sc2? Corrupters? Those things are a joke since they won't ever catch the muta's.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
May 14 2013 07:10 GMT
#110
On May 14 2013 15:54 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2013 15:51 blade55555 wrote:
On May 14 2013 15:37 pseudocalm wrote:
TY BLIZZARD this is clutch balance. Get the damn muta clouds out of zvz


You won't be saying this if zvz ever gets to the point where muta suck and going swarmhost/infestor/broodlord + mass spine being standard .


aren't vipers amazing against that?
like, roach/hydra/swarm host/viper... if he tries to transition, you just pull and laugh


Uh probably not lol. You can't really abduct swarmhosts because of how far back they will be.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
May 14 2013 07:13 GMT
#111
On May 14 2013 09:43 Kowai01 wrote:
I would like to see an overall damage buff to spore to a flat 45 damage vs all since Zerg has no viable Anti-Air late game vs Terran or Toss... Hydras die to easy and Curropters just arent stronk enuf to deal with carriers/Tempest or Ravens. or maybe a Range increase instead of a damage increase. And Hellbats... But this is still "New" Game so i think the slow approach is good for now... Next month they need to actually start looking at Terran's Hellbats, SpeedVac and Widowmine... I hope. And maybe a slight decrease in the DPS of Locus of the SH.


No.
Just.. No.

Glad they refrained from nerfing anything.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 14 2013 07:18 GMT
#112
On May 14 2013 16:10 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2013 15:54 Big J wrote:
On May 14 2013 15:51 blade55555 wrote:
On May 14 2013 15:37 pseudocalm wrote:
TY BLIZZARD this is clutch balance. Get the damn muta clouds out of zvz


You won't be saying this if zvz ever gets to the point where muta suck and going swarmhost/infestor/broodlord + mass spine being standard .


aren't vipers amazing against that?
like, roach/hydra/swarm host/viper... if he tries to transition, you just pull and laugh


Uh probably not lol. You can't really abduct swarmhosts because of how far back they will be.

Well, but everything else, right? So broodlords would probably be a bad idea if i have anything to shoot them after pulling. (Spores with 45 dmg :-) )
Infestors would be tricky against vipers as well I guess. And I dont think it's that easy. What if those ling/ultra builds become popular with the new ultra and the infestor sucking against zerglings? Wouldnt that stomp swarmhost play with mobilty in the midgame?
Sanquis
Profile Joined May 2013
Finland1 Post
May 14 2013 07:20 GMT
#113
This definetly opens more styles in ZvZ since few spores will give you enough time to get hydra/infestor or just do some kind of timing pushes with maybe roach/hydra
Each victory is a missed opportunity to lose
Pandahunterz
Profile Joined March 2013
Netherlands213 Posts
May 14 2013 07:28 GMT
#114
Stop whining about hellbats! Dont know if the spore chance is the best option but it will certainly increase the potential to avoid mass muta and go for another build. Mass muta will still own if not prepared for it, but at least you can now build up a counter without getting your drones, queens, hatch and even spores killed by a group of 6-8 muta. If your opponent has already got a muta deathball before you have a good hydra infestor queen composition he just outplayed you or you need to work on your macro, but at least now zerg have a chance.
emanresU
Profile Joined November 2012
Germany393 Posts
May 14 2013 07:37 GMT
#115
I hope Ling Muta is tisll viable in ZvZ though just not that it is the only viable strategy so yeah we'll see.
There is nothing more cool than being proud of the things you love. -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
SeriousLus
Profile Joined July 2012
169 Posts
May 14 2013 07:40 GMT
#116
classic Blizzard - never change something back but keep patching stuff^^
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 14 2013 07:44 GMT
#117
On May 14 2013 16:40 SeriousLus wrote:
classic Blizzard - never change something back but keep patching stuff^^


So instacast fungal would have been the way to go for you?
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-14 07:51:31
May 14 2013 07:46 GMT
#118
On May 14 2013 16:44 Big J wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2013 16:40 SeriousLus wrote:
classic Blizzard - never change something back but keep patching stuff^^


So instacast fungal would have been the way to go for you?

Classic stupid counterargument which totally ignores the post itself ... no matter how short it is. "Going back" means getting rid of Mutalisk regeneration. At least that is what the last step in "ZvZ buffing" was which made Mutalisks good over a long duration.

The key point is that Blizzard tries to do balance by BUFFING ONLY and seems not to consider nerfing at all (which is always getting a ton of whines on forums), but endlessly buffing will only end in a spiral of ever increasing stats without reaching a stable balance.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
Bahajinbo
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany488 Posts
May 14 2013 07:50 GMT
#119
"Going back" means getting rid of Mutalisk regeneration.

I actually think, this would solve the whole ZvZ and the "phoenix only against mutas" PvZ problem for sure.
[17]Purple
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom3489 Posts
May 14 2013 07:52 GMT
#120
Still think that a buff to Hydra AA would have been appropriate (though unsure how that would effect other matchups)
"Turn Disadvantages into Disadvantages" and "Collect Telephones". The secrets of Chinese success.
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 19 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #248
TKL 196
iHatsuTV 26
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 533
TKL 196
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 48198
Calm 6075
Sea 4691
Jaedong 1205
EffOrt 953
firebathero 772
Soulkey 398
ggaemo 347
BeSt 306
Hyuk 279
[ Show more ]
actioN 228
Rush 188
ToSsGirL 76
Mind 75
scan(afreeca) 73
Sea.KH 46
Shinee 36
Backho 28
Sexy 25
Barracks 24
soO 23
910 23
Terrorterran 22
yabsab 14
Shine 12
Sacsri 12
Free 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Dota 2
Gorgc6350
qojqva1329
syndereN161
Counter-Strike
fl0m3016
olofmeister2733
markeloff172
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King65
Westballz28
Other Games
gofns37959
Grubby6746
singsing2218
B2W.Neo669
DeMusliM601
hiko474
byalli346
Lowko340
crisheroes314
Happy229
monkeys_forever116
Hui .78
QueenE54
KnowMe51
Beastyqt48
XcaliburYe47
ArmadaUGS23
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL36841
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• escodisco1576
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2797
• Jankos1499
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
1h 57m
sebesdes vs Iba
Percival vs YoungYakov
Reynor vs GgMaChine
Korean StarCraft League
12h 57m
RSL Revival
19h 57m
Clem vs Rogue
Bunny vs Lambo
IPSL
1d 1h
Dewalt vs nOmaD
Ret vs Cross
BSL
1d 4h
Bonyth vs Doodle
Dewalt vs TerrOr
GSL
1d 17h
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
BSL
2 days
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-14
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Escore Tournament S2: W7
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.